/lit/ - Literature

>>20982693
Pythagoreans also believed that real life didn't start until 40 IIRC

>>20982693
didn't Cormac McCarthy said he didn't do much of anything in his teens and he started writing in his mid-twenties?

>>20982820
I heard something about how he didn't start reading seriously until he was 23 or something,so that sounds right

"this Hawthorne has dropped germinous seeds into my soul. He expands and deepens down...and further, shoots his strong New-England roots into the hot soil of my Southern soul."
-Melville on Hawthorne

>>20982862
nobody wants to admit that Hawthorne stopped being friends with Melville because Melville was too gay but it's literally what happened

40 sounds way too late. 25 sounds about right.

With all due integralness of sapience granted, at twentyfive years of age the first major part of oneself dies, and begins to regenerate; by twentyseven one finds oneself in the thick midst of life, on all levels; by thirty one virtually totally reconciles the cordiological with the chronological, the former realigning with the latter; the ending supercyclically reconnecting with the beginning; although I am not yet thirty years old, I can see this as clearly as one can foresee the weather.

Those ones who were born in year nineteen ninetyfive, or in close proximity to it, are generationally the most in syncord with the phases of death of the worldspirit, which is also one of the reasons why they are the most poetical of the Millennial generation.

>>20983184

I had a lot of responsibility for my family at a young age, but even so, I was sort of on autopilot until I was about 24 to 26. Things changed for alot inwardly between 24 and 26.

I think in Western culture, we believe really strongly in the individual and his or her freedom to live their life as they see fit and there are pros to that but there are also cons. One of the cons is that in a life without rigid expectations, you can find yourself aimlessly drifting until you start to put the pieces together and that only happens by 25 if you're very lucky. 35 is probably more common. 45 is probably even more common than that. An extremely lucky few would develop it around 15.

>>20982693
So with only 5 years of development he started writing Moby Dick at the age of 30?
And that was already his 4th or 5th novel to boot. I dont buy his story.

>>20983200
It's probably worth pointing out that Plato was 28 when he began to pursue philosophy and Jesus was around 30 when he started to spread his gospel.

>>20983204
he said it about writing and publishing Typee (his first novel), meaning he didn't live until he became a writer

>>20983117
Not in today's world. You're a wage slave for most of your youth working pretty much 12 hours a day. You have no time for yourself or the mindset to actually live. You start living somewhere in your 40's and 50's when you learn most of the things you do and run after throughout your life are a load of bullshit. You only start living when you have inner peace and are doing what gives you joy, not what you desire.

>>20983216
Aristotle left the Academy at 30. Intellectuals rarely make a name for themselves in their twenties, and those that do are usually boosted by their parents' money.

>>20982693
You start to develop professional or skill-based competence at around that age yes. In terms of “life” beginning at 25 that’s not true at all. Unless you lived some absolutely abysmal childhood and young adulthood there’s no reason your middle or old age would be better. Getting older, I’m constantly reminded of that Schopenhauer line about how aging is like watching the same magic trick over and over again.

Since we’re throwing quotations around:

“Life is the first 20 years. Everything else is reflection.” -Norman Mailer (I think).

>>20983114
Your heart beat in my ribs and mine in yours, and both in God’s… It is a strange feeling — no hopefulness is in it, no despair. Content — that is it; and irresponsibility; but without licentious inclination. I speak now of my profoundest sense of being, not of an incidental feeling.

Whence come you, Hawthorne? By what right do you drink from my flagon of life? And when I put it to my lips — lo, they are yours and not mine. I feel that the Godhead is broken up like the bread at the Supper, and that we are the pieces.
My dear Hawthorne, the atmospheric skepticisms steal into me now, and make me doubtful of my sanity in writing you thus. But, believe me, I am not mad, most noble Festus! But truth is ever incoherent, and when the big hearts strike together, the concussion is a little stunning.
I can’t stop yet. If the world was entirely made up of [magicians], I’ll tell you what I should do. I should have a paper-mill established at one end of the house, and so have an endless riband of foolscap rolling in upon my desk; and upon that endless riband I should write a thousand — a million — billion thoughts, all under the form of a letter to you. The divine magnet is in you, and my magnet responds. Which is the biggest? A foolish question — they are One.

>>20982693
I have never seen such a nice hair beard combo, absolutely top notch genes

was pre 25 year old Melville hot?
Maybe even twinky?

I think he was

>>20983217
after like 3 or 4 days of writing I started to think 'is someone even alive if he doesn't write?'. Glad to know and Melville tier chad.

>>20983297
>“Life is the first 20 years. Everything else is reflection.” -Norman Mailer
Extremely grim outlook and I'd say an extremely foolish one as well.

>>20983615
he looked like jontron

>>20983297
I guess it depends on the arena and the times. Writers are always outsiders. American history is filled with writers who turned to write later. I can't think of a President that wasn't on a path to power by 22 with the exception of George Washington and even that is debatable.

>>20983628
Something can be grim and true at the same time. I think part of what Mailer was getting at is that many of your formative experiences will have taken place by that point. Sure, good things may happen to you later in life, but they may not be as exciting as your formative experiences, and generally speaking your number of life opportunities decreases over time.

>>20983783
I almost completely disagree. You have formative experiences throughout your life but nobody does anything of note or anything of any value in their youth. It's simply a time of frivolity that leaves you with a few positive memories to look back on. You can't even relate to your environment or the people around you to any meaningful degree at that age. The actions you take and the experiences you have once you've reached adulthood are what truly define your life. I feel that people who over-romanticize youth are looking for substance where there isn't any and that they're missing the boat in their adulthood. Youth and young adulthood are not particularly exciting and I find adulthood and the future of my life to be of much greater interest.

>>20982693
NEET cope. Melville still did things before 25, he went outside, he had friends, he had fun, he pursued hobbies outside of indulging in childish fantasies; you can't compare yourself to him, which I suspect is what you're trying to do by posting this quote and hoping to reassure yourself that all will be well for you. It won't.

>>20983878
>Melville is special because he went outside, had friends, had fun, pursued hobbies
Wow, shocking. Everyone does that. Everyone. What are you even trying to suggest here?

>>20983917
I bet you didn't go on a whaling expedition, desert on the Marquesas and get kidnapped by cannibals

>>20982693
Melville is just larping as Carlyle here, Carlyle has a similar quote about this.

>>20983951
Post it.

>>20983264
what if what gives you joy is that which you desire?

>>20982693
I'm 27 right now, almost 28, and I've definitely noticed big changes in my own self right around when I turned 26. I think Melville's up to something.
>>20982812
Yeah the Greeks generally thought 40 is when your life really properly starts. I spent my mid-20s thinking my life was over and only lately have I began feeling the opposite, those Greeks were right.

I hope so, I would like to achieve something in life and I'm 28 already

Real life begins when you come to terms with your solipsistic truth, before that you are an empty vessel

>>20982693
I published my first book (pic related) when i was 39.
Life is a marathon not a sprint.

>>20982693
It doesn't make me feel any better.

Guys where that jpeg about how history's greatest writers have been gay with cute gay boy wojak??

>>20983878
>he went outside, he had friends, he had fun, he pursued hobbies outside of indulging in childish fantasies
Projecting hard, my friend.
> a whaling expedition, desert on the Marquesas and get kidnapped by cannibals
Even (You) noticed how retarded you sounded and moved the goalposts.
>hoping to reassure yourself that all will be well for you. It won't
Have fun with that self-fulfilling prophecy.

>>20984328

You are not this guy, he seems like a good lad

>>20982693
I'm a 30 yo boomer and I still feel like I'm figuring stuff out. The folly of youth is that in those years from like 16-25 the body is ready before the mind is to take on life skillfully. I find that I wasn't really able to make decisions of any substance until recently. Even when I tried to shape my world when I was younger, I just simply didn't understand it well enough for me to influence it intentionally. And god was I sensitive.
Maturity is realizing deep in your bones that your days are numbered.

>>20982693
I was a useless lump of meat until I was about 45. I think back to the me-I-was before that and I swear he was a totally different human being. Different values, different opinions, different personality traits, everything. Christ, what an asshole.

>>20983216
As it is written in the scriptures: He gained in grace and wisdom before God and man and remained submissive and obedient to His parents, until He began his teachings. Question: How could Jesus, as the sole eternal Divine entity, gain in grace and wisdom before God and man, when He Himself was God from eternity? And, in particular, before man, as He was, after all, the infinite and most perfect Being? To understand this correctly, one should not regard Jesus exclusively as the one and only God; but one must see Him as a man, in whom the exclusive and eternal Divinity is confined in a seemingly dormant manner within Himself, just as every man's spirit is imprisoned in his being. And that what every man has to do according to the Divine order to free his spirit, also had to be done earnestly by Jesus, the human being, to free the Divinity within Himself, so that He could become one with the Spirit. However, every man has to carry certain weaknesses within himself, which are the common bonds of the spirit, which confine him as in a hard shell. The bonds can only be shattered when the soul, which is entwined with the flesh, has been strengthened by righteous self- denial, so that it is resolute enough to grasp and hold the free spirit. For this reason, man can only be aware of his weaknesses through all sorts of temptations, and discover how and where his spirit is tied up. If he then, in these very matters, denies himself in his soul, he will thereby unshackle the chains from his spirit and bind his soul therewith. If at the right time, the soul is strengthened with all its former spiritual bonds, the fully unshackled spirit most naturally unites with the entire, powerful soul, and the latter thereby enters into all the heavenly authority of the spirit and becomes eternally and completely one with it. By taking off the bonds one at a time, the soul can increase its spiritual power, which is the Wisdom and the Grace. Wisdom is the lucid observation of the eternal order of God, and grace is the light of love, which illuminates all the endless and countless infinite and eternal things, their conditions and their paths! And what applied to human beings also applied to the Divine Being Jesus. His soul was like the soul of every other human being and was all the more afflicted with weaknesses, because the almighty Divine Spirit had to put the most powerful bonds on Himself so that He could be contained within His soul. Thus also Jesus' soul had to withstand the greatest temptations by denying itself, in order to remove the bonds around its Divine Spirit, and therewith increase its strength for the infinite freedom of the Spirit of all Spirits, and thus become wholly one with Him. And in this did the increase in wisdom and grace of Jesus' soul before God and man consist, and that to such an extent, that the Divine Spirit gradually and increasingly became one with His undoubtedly divine soul, which was the true Son.

>>20984455
Just how did Jesus, the Lord, live from his twelfth to His thirtieth year? He constantly felt the presence of the almighty God within Himself as a living Power; He knew in His soul, that everything contained in the infinity was and would always be subject to His slightest gesture. In addition, however, He had the most powerful urge in His soul to rule over everything. Pride, lust for power, complete freedom, inclination towards pleasure, desire for women and the like, as well as anger, were the principal weaknesses of His soul. But He fought against all these powerful and deadly driving forces of His soul from his soul's will. He humbled his pride through poverty; but how hard a method it was for Him, to Whom everything belonged, for He could not call anything 'His'! He subdued the lust for power by subservience and by the most willing obedience to those, who were, just like all men, nothing before Him! Although infinitely difficult, He assailed His eternal supreme freedom by surrendering Himself to men to do the lowliest tasks like a slave-like servant. By frequent fasts, He fought against the most powerful urge to live a life of pleasure – out of poverty, and also out of the free will of His soul. He fought the desire for women through repeated hard work, scant food, prayer and the company of wise men. Indeed – He had to endure a tremendous amount on this point, because His personal appearance and the tone of His speech were highly captivating, and this caused all the five exceedingly beautiful daughters of Cyrenius to fall madly in love with Him and vie among themselves to please Him. Although he certainly enjoyed such love, He always had to say "Noli me tangere" (Do not touch me) to each of them! Moreover, as He could see through the wickedness of men at a glance – and saw their deceit and hypocrisy, mischievousness and their selfishness, it is also understandable that He was very excitable and could easily feel offended and enraged; but He restrained His divine nature through His love, and compassion following thereupon. He thus practised the most difficult self-denial throughout His life to restore the disrupted eternal order! And therefore it can be easily deduced how it was that Jesus as a man spent eighteen years facing and fighting against constant temptations. And as it is now explained for the benefit of everyone, there is nothing more to say, except for the three-day debate with the wise men and scholars in the temple, which, however, like several other events, cannot be explained here. Therefore be content with this for now, and the rest will follow when you say to the servant: 'Come to us, brother, in the name of the Lord, and stay and live with us!' – Thus this work also comes to an end, and may My blessing and My mercy be with you forever! Amen, Amen, Amen.

>>20984370
Believe me or not, i don't care, i know who i am

>>20984492
>i know who i am
Bold words for an inhabitant of the 21st Century.

>>20984328
Bro I kinda wanna read this (if this is yours actual work)

>>20983264
>buy crypto in 2017
>you're retired now
it was that easy, anon

i'm in my 30s and i only came alive a few weeks ago. top tip: amphetamines.

>>20984453
How did you overcome this? Asking for myself

>>20983647
Underrated

>>20983184
>Those ones who were born in year nineteen ninetyfive, or in close proximity to it, are generationally the most in syncord with the phases of death of the worldspirit, which is also one of the reasons why they are the most poetical of the Millennial generation.

Explain.

>>20984607
Just time. Maturation, I guess. Growing into a complete, self-actualized human being.

In ten years I'll probably think the person I am today was a complete shit.

>>20982693
For men, absolutely. Maybe 35 for some. For women, it's more like 25-30, so a 10 year difference.

Jungian analyst Robert Moore believed that in adolescence, girls are full of Lover energy while boys are filled with Warrior energy, while in midlife, women are full of Warrior energy while men are filled with Lover energy, which he deemed the source of high divorce rates in midlife which are majority initiated by women.

>>20983377
Is this real? holy shit this is unbelievably gay

>>20985275
it was his reaction when Hawthorne said he liked Moby Dick

>>20982862
.....

>>20983297
Your life is extremely controlled by your parents up until 14/15 at the absolute earliest, and that's assuming they're pretty liberal about your freedom, so life consists essentially of a handful of years when you're more or less on autopilot? Retard quote

>>20982862
>>20983377
Was he gay or just artistic?

>>20985909
read Redburn, it's supposed to be largely autobiographical and he spends almost the entire last third of the book being emotional about this "delicate exotic":
>handsome, accomplished, but unfortunate youth, young Harry Bolton. He was one of those small, but perfectly formed beings, with curling hair, and silken muscles, who seem to have been born in cocoons. His complexion was a mantling brunette, feminine as a girl’s; his feet were small; his hands were white; and his eyes were large, black, and womanly; and, poetry aside, his voice was as the sound of a harp.

>>20982693
>What do you think?
Pythagoreans also believed that real life didn't start until 40 IIRC

>>20983917
Do you know on what site you are on?

>>20982693
Brain/growth in general's peaking out then before pruning. Could be.
t. descendant of Hawthorne's

>>20984190
Realistically the most important aspects of life are all closed off to you by about 22. Genuine love from a woman, for example, requires her to latch her cart to your horse while you are still a serious risk and a gamble to bet on. If you have a career or even a degree before she does, you can never experience genuine love from a woman which is the most fundamental life experience for a man.

So no, you don't start living at 40. The Greeks thought that because they were gay homosexuals and forgot about menopause. Life is over by 40.

>>20984673
I did this by the time I was 16 and haven't had to change since and life is going well. I think you may just be developmentally disabled. Only if you're too coddled do you still need to keep le growing/maturing past about 19 at the very very latest. Maybe when you're 60 you'll be as mature as I was then.

>>20986896
Stop it with that retarded romantic notion of "genuine love". Being loved for the sole reason you exist is something that doesn't really happen outside of mother's love to her child.

>>20983297
Everyone seething at that quote, because its true and painful to accept. Life really is over at 20.

>>20986900
Nope, not true. I witnessed it first hand. You need only be genetically attractive. Sorry, but I saw it directly. You can persist in your dark cave, but I've seen the truth.

Some subset of men will get to experience genuine love from a woman from luck of birth by genetics, and the rest will toil in misery or find joy in submissive denial.

>>20982693
>abraham was 100 years old when sarah bore him his son isaac
>noah was 500 years old when he began building the ark, and 600 years old when the flood came
>moses returned to egypt when he was 80 years old to confronted the pharaoh and led his people to freedom
its never too late boys

>>20983878
>NEET cope.
>he went outside, he had friends, he had fun, he pursued hobbies
I've been a NEET since 14 and have always done those things

>>20983216
IIRC Buddha also left the palace sometime in the 27-30 range.

>>20986906
>You need only be genetically attractive.
Jesus Christ, shut the fuck up. Evolutionary psychology is not a science and is as rigorous as astrology. Get the fuck out, touch some grass, breathe some fresh air. God is real and reality cannot be reduced to some pseudoscientific deterministic framework.

In French literature one must be an accomplished artist by the age of 30 if one is to compete for posterity. Victor Hugo began to write verses at 13 and won first prizes at the Académie des jeux floraux at 16. Lamartine published his Meditations at 30. Banville as Gautier published their first collections at 19. Rimbaud finished his literary production at 21. Baudelaire obtains prices of Latin verses in the general contest in high school. In the novel Balzac wrote more than 40 works before he was 25, at the same age Maupassant started to publish. In the previous centuries, Marot became a court poet at 23, Corneille had his first play performed at the same age. At the age of 26, Racine's tragedies earned him the support of the king. Voltaire had published verses at the age of 20.

>>20986898
not that anon(im a little twinkie zoomer)but I can't imagine a mature person saying something so gratuitously soul crushing and flawed(yet convincing for purely emotional reasons), you just want to feel better than someone else, and I think that's something only pathetic people do

>>20987077
Your seething is evidence of my correctness. Stay mad and naive.

>>20987180
Mature people don't turn away from painful truths. They accept them and the eternal pain they bring. Coddling and turning away from truth that brings irreparable pain are coping mechanisms for children.

>>20987236
I’m not “seething”, you delusional buffoon. I feel nothing but pity for you. You’re not a loser because of your genes. You’re a loser because you chose to remain a loser.

>>20987250
well i dare say my buffoonery old chap i tippeth of my hat my dearest chapman i do but soeth thine of thou pity thoust

get a grip, and stay mad.

>>20983297
Lmao momma's boy

>>20983297
Mailer was wrong about every subject he ever gave an opinion on

>>20984672
>>20983184
as someone born in 1995, how can i put this without generalizing. somehow, perhaps because i almost feel called out by the original poster, have a duty, or at least i feel, a reason to attempt to possibly explain what he couldve meant

being born in 1995 means that you are the last of those who were not completely enveloped by the causes and effects of both 9/11/2001 and the extremely rampant technological progress that has also occurred in the years since then, mainly since 2007. as in, you were brought up, especially in young childhood, in a sociable world that was organic, as in that there were not digital walls separating people from each other in the way that technology separates and isolates people now. having been able to experience childhood from the perspective of the world prior to the introduction of mass technology and surveillance, and then experiencing this same world from the perspective of adolescence to adulthood, the differences can be plainly seen.

it is especially unique for those born in and around 1995, many sources both claim that that year, plus or minus maybe 1 year surrounding it, belongs both to millenial and generation z, as sort of an inbetween, or buffer between the two. anyway, this is all just my idea on it. a lot more could probably be said on it but this is already long enough. and i also may just be totally off the mark in what op meant, but i would also love to hear what they have to say regarding that statement.

>>20987253
What the fuck is the point of this "YOU'RE mad! (which makes me right somehow)" "No YOU'RE the mad one!"? It proves nothing.

>>20983114
I tried googling this but got a blog post about how Melville and Hawthorne were gay lovers in secret.

Did they actually have a falling out?

>>20987595
they were friends only between 1950 and 1952, then Hawthorne started growing distant, for some reasons. I've heard that in Blithedale Romance he wrote a character based on Melville and that character gets told something along the lines of "men shouldn't love other men", but I don't know how true is this because I did not read it. Anyway Melville kept seething about it for the rest of his career, basing every "fake friend" type of character on Hawthorne.
Very unlikely that they were lovers, that relationship both in the homo and nohomo way of looking at it was always very one-sided.

>>20985280
We don't have any of Hawthorne's letters but from Melville's reaction I do not think Hawthorne liked Moby Dick.
>Now, sympathizing with the paper, my angel turns over another page. you did not care a penny for the book. But, now and then as you read, you understood the pervading thought that impelled the book -- and that you praised. Was it not so? You were archangel enough to despise the imperfect body, and embrace the soul.

"archangel enough to despise the imperfect body, and embrace the soul" makes it seem like Melville was just coping that Hawthorne thought it wasn't that good.

>>20983377
Imagine one of your homies sends you this

>>20983114
Monody
By Herman Melville

To have known him, to have loved him
After loneness long;
And then to be estranged in life,
And neither in the wrong;
And now for death to set his seal—
Ease me, a little ease, my song!
By wintry hills his hermit-mound
The sheeted snow-drifts drape,
And houseless there the snow-bird flits
Beneath the fir-trees’ crape:
Glazed now with ice the cloistral vine
That hid the shyest grape.

>>20987595
Unlikely. But Melville was almost undoubtedly homosexual and in love with Hawthorne, but not the other way around

>>20987718
god i wish someone would write a letter like this to me

>>20987714
>"it's not that good but I liked some of the ideas you had there"
>"oh my god you are so kind I'm literally shaking in ecstasy we are soul brothers two hearts in one please fertilize my hot southern bussy"

>>20987733
woah, he's just like me...

>>20984615
bob mortimer with a pendulum?

>>20987124
The best French writer of the 20th century, Claude Simon, only started writing in his thirties.
Céline and Rebatet were also late starters.

>>20983184

>>20983626
your writing sucks, swich to music or something

>>20987714
moby dick is genuinely not a good novel. theres a reason no one gave a shit about it at the time. of course, the ideas are agreeable, but as a work of literature? its weak

people who say life ends somewhere in your 20's are people who peaked early. My condolences

>>20982693
Life begins when you are born. But most people do not mature enough until they are at the zenith of their youth and realize they're getting older now. I think being older is not a bad thing, but aging sucks. It makes you look worse, makes you physically weaker, and eventually destroys your mind. So take care of yourself. I would love to be 200 years old as long as my body is some what capable. These days you can look like you are in your 20's in your 30's, some can even extend it quite late. When you grow old and weak you die.

>>20986896
I had pussay before and that great love, but I turned that bitch down and fucked another one in the throat in a bathroom after playing some cards and having a few drinks. Whoah, you missed out so much! Cut that soft shit. Pussy is pussy, women will worship you even if you beat them, I have learnt that before I turned 25. 16 year old girls will suck your dick if you're famous, you're a fucking r - e - t - a - r - d with capital r.

>>20987124
Okay now tell me when Flaubert and Proust published their masterpieces

>>20987440
I agree with you on the point of the millenial/zoomer border. Its obvious that people born at the end of one generation would identify more with the beginning of the next generation, but I think that the development of the internet was a genuine historical shift. Older millenials still had to deal with this change but they were adults by the time it got into full swing and their formative memories are still from a pre-internet world. For people born in the border region, all of their formative memories are from a transitory period. Time seems to pass slower when you're a child, so a change that took place over a few years will seem to have taken longer for someone who was older when it happened. People on the millenial/zoomer border are in the right place for that pre-internet to post-internet (or old internet to new internet) transition to be in that that specific childhood-memory zone. Maybe there is something significant in that.

Either way, people in that age-range probably still aren't old enough to be prominent writers/directors/intellectuals etc, so we probably won't understand that particular zeitgeist for another decade or two. Maybe there are a couple of bands/musicians who capture it. I don't know.

>>20983200
I was literally on track by age 5. But I'm a lucky autist with very supportive parents

>>20987353
Nah, he bussin

>>20988554

On god he's cappin

>>20987440


I concur with you, excepting two points:

1.Technology is merely a means to an end, and the subomptimal, and later pessimal, mundification of it following the "Y 2 K" epoch —excepting the occasional highs— is symptomatic of the ethicomoral decline of the world.

2. Unless one is taking a tactical countermeasure against it, or being unstealthy in particular illegal matters, global surveillance has never been a concern to any sane & sincere person, and will not be until the beast system is finalized; nothing exposed in the world is, nor ever was, confidentially secure; the profile is wholly digitable & divulgable —as to humans, so to demons—; it is ultimately a problem of safety, not one of privacy.

Addendum: The Millennial generation comprises from year nineteen hundred eightytwo to year nineteen hundred ninetyseven; the Zoomer intergeneration comprises from year nineteen hundred ninetyeight to year twothousand two.


This approximates well enough what growing up as a kid in the "Y 2 K" era felt like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRYrlxWzf4c

>>20988258


No.

>>20988746
so what makes you bring up 1995 specifically as you did in your first post?

required reading for the thead

>>20988279
unironically filtered

>>20988849


Observing, and cogitating, the world, and types of person.

>>20982862
>>20983377
Holy based

>>20987440
Seconding this born in 96 and having a delayed entry into the digital world thanks to a rural family and disabusing myself of social media from the start.

>>20988516
As another 95er I think one of the effects might be an increased sense of nostalgia for childhood, since the world itself has changed significantly since we were very young to even adolescent years, so there's an even greater sense of never being able to return to childhood than there would be typically.

>>20983878
Melville had a notoriously difficult youth and spent a portion of his twenties actually working aboard ships. Why are you obsessed with NEETs? Are you, like Melville, homosexual? Cute

>>20982693
Every few years I look back and think I was basically an undirected automaton up until a few years ago.
30 now and it feels like I wasn’t conscious until 26. Maybe this start date will stick, but who knows?

>>20983665
That’s the strange thing. People either start off early fully aligned with their railroad tracks and don’t stop to think of much of anything until middle age, or they were never aligned or fell off early and have to figure out what it’s all about before they start again. Many paths are only available to the former, but some are only available to the latter.

>>20983216
Plotinus also took up philosophy at 27 on an impulse.

>>20985098
Not everything is about gender, kys tranny

>>20983377
>The divine magnet is in you, and my magnet responds. Which is the biggest? A foolish question — they are One.
Was this ever at any point in history a normal thing to say to another man?

>>20983863
>You have formative experiences throughout your life but nobody does anything of note or anything of any value in their youth
What you don't seem to understand is that these people don't think that there is anything of note or value to do in life in the first place. Hence, "the same magic trick over and over again."

>>20986906
Romantic love is a heresy and an aberration conceptualized in the Early Renaissance through bastardization of eternal myth. Nobody should love anybody just for being besides a mother her child, and if you think living life to its fullest requires "genuine love from a woman" you know nothing about life and are a retard.

>>20988872
tldr?

>>20983863
BS. It is a long running joke that great mathematics is not done after 30. All major contributions are made by mathematicians in their 20s. After that your brain begins to decay and your faculties steadily decline.

>>20983863
The most essential thing of life is the young genuine love of a woman based on your genetics of being tall. Only a small portion of men will ever get to experience this gene and age gated experience and it is the most enlightening and blissful of all of life's possible experiences, defining the meaning and reason for human existence in a way that denying this fact means you want gay cock.

>>20988376
This is what they call in evidence based discussions a "cope". Yes, the women available to you were like that, which means genuine love was closed off to you. You will never experience, and never came close to experiencing it.

>>20990023
This is known in the literature as the "sour grapes cope"

>>20988293
The highest attainable peaks are in your early 20s. You can peak later, but that peak will always hunch submissively in the shadow of the peaks of youth of others who got to experience real life which is age gated.

>>20990140
>>20990155
>>20990175
mindbroken dimwit incel cope
Most incels are utterly terrified of the fact that it's not "over" deep down. They live in constant fear and anxiety of the light of the whitepill like sunken cave creatures.

>>20990194
This is known as the "hope for the future cope" and "age related decline denial cope".

>>20988337
that's the annoying part, youth is wasted on the wrong people... i don't mind getting older but aging is the real kicker, as you say it's getting better, anti aging in general but nowhere near the level I'm happy with

>>20990188
Stupid doomposting

>>20990136
There was some Asian guy who won the fields medal who dropped out of school to become a poet, and didn't even get interested in mathematics until his sixth year of university.

>>20990230
No there wasn't lmao

>>20990227
He shrieks as he recoils in agony from the burning light of truth.

>>20990237
Literally describing yourself.
You just want a cop out to justify not trying.

>>20990244
He shrieks as he attempts to engage on a one to one personal level to change the topic of conversation from the abstract data driven conclusions of life to a personal shit flinging contest.

>>20990232
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_Huh
If you wanted to cope you could have said 'b-but he's a 1 in a million genius' or 'his parents were both professors so he had good genetics' but no, you just had to deny it without even bothering to check, you fucking cretin.

>>20990263
>Huh is married to Kim Nayoung, who he met through his mathematical studies at Seoul National University. She graduated from Seoul National University with a doctorate in mathematics. They have two sons

There you have it. He experienced age gated early love of a woman. Propelling him to greatness.

>>20990206
I already had genuine teenage love though. You clearly have arrested development. (Like most people). I suggest watching less anime.

>>20990280
This is known as the "personal attack cope" and the "misunderstanding cope". Genuine love lasts for life. It is not genuine love if you are not married with children for life.

>>20990282
I don't even need a physiognomy check for you I can already see your face through text.
>Genuine love lasts for life
Kek women don't love like that anon. Romantic love is a psyop invented by males and understood only by males.
Can't even imagine what it must be like to be a grown man whose ambitions amount to "getting married with children for life."

>>20990302
This brings us back around to the "sour grapes cope". For some it seems life is a veil of copes.

>>20990237
Where do you get the authority for this truth?
Furthermore, what is peak?

>>20990313
Epistemic intuition. Age gated genuine love.

>>20990311
Wonder who's the sour one here.
>For some it seems life is a veil of copes.
But not for you anon. You are 19 and have already discovered the secret of life. Time to lay down and rot I guess.

>>20990317
This is known as the "double down on personal attacks cope" and the "surely you are younger than me but im still young and hip when i need to be cope".

>the abstract data driven conclusions of life

>i don't even need a physiognomy check for you

>>20990263
>30s
>fields medal
>two kids with a PhD
>Ivy professor
Why would you post suicide fuel

>>20990320
If you weren't a sophist you'd see how your arguments lead to infinite regress but I'm not going to spoonfeed and will continue framing my responses as personal attacks simple because it's fun. Either you will learn or wipe yourself out in your folly.

>>20990336
You are so close and yet so far. Your copes are aware of the inevitable nihilistic extirpation of all souls that aren't genuinely loved in a time dependent manner but you practice denialism copes.

>>20990316
>Epistemic intuition
You cite your intuition?
>Age gated genuine love.
Love in what sense?

>>20990350
Yes. The standard sense.

>>20990340
"Genuine love" here is just a retarded placeholder that can be replaced with anything if you're delusional enough. People who subscribe to your "philosophy" ironically enough are completely unable to understand love. For you love is something like a drug to be consumed that cures you of the suffering that comes with being. All of your valuations, based on "collected data", stem from your desire deep down to crawl back into the safe nurturing comfort of your mother's womb. In nature, love is self-sacrifice, and only results with the complete acceptance of life and the loss of all yearning that accompanies it. Struggle all you want, nothing else will save you.

>>20990366
This is known as the "pseudoBuddhist cope". It attempts to elevate suffering ("sacrifice") above pleasurable experiences like love to arbitrarily justify having suffered as something valuable and worthwhile to the coping self. It was meaningless, you experienced pain for no reason. And you missed good time gated things for no reason. Your suffering is valueless and without merit.

>>20990366
Those that suffer are the subgroup that did not experience the time gated good things of life, but of course there is the "all life is like this cope" that attempts to frustratedly suggest that suffering is inherent to being when really it is only inherent to arbitrarily unlucky being.

>>20990364
So you mean the dictionary definition?

>>20990386
The standard.

>>20990387
So you mean the philosophical definition?

>>20990400
I mean as I've stated it. No further elaboration will be offered. The case is self-evident.

>>20990407
Self-evident to whom?
>No further elaboration will be offered.
I accept your concession.

>>20990378
Suffering is inherent to being you pussy-worshipper, ask someone you believe is a recipient of these so-called time gated good things of life. If they're self-aware enough they'll know and then you can fix your "intuition".
>>20990400
He's not going to be able to answer that question, he doesn't read.

>>20988872
Thanks for the rec anon, looks interesting, will read

I was just about ask the thread in general: I just turned 20 years old a couple days ago, and I feel like I've been wasting a lot of valuable time since I was 17. How can I maximize my time now? I have a low-tier wagie job and am currently living with my parents; they are cool to let me hang out as long as I pay rent and help around the house. I'm currently looking for a career and trying to do lots of reading in my spare time, but I'm not really sure what I should be doing now in preparation for later on in my late 20s/30s and so on. I didn't really plan on getting married mostly because I didn't think I would ever find a woman who would truly love me but recently I've been anxious about what the fuck I'll be doing with my free time when I'm 40+ years old with no friends and no wife or kids.

>>20990418
He's a coward. To be a coward as an Anon on 4chan is not a good place to be. You can reliably send such a person back to their den with a few simple questions about their definitions and foundations.

>>20990330
Because this thread is full of people in their twenties acting like life is over because they weren't succesful from childhood, and he's an example of someone who was pretty much a failure until his mid-twenties and then achieved the highest possible level of his field. If you look at that and see suicide fuel rather than hope then you have deep-seated issues and should do something about that (unless you're already 35+ and still a complete failure, in which case you have my genuine sympathy and I hope you can at least find some kind of peace in life before your very likely suicide).

>>20990413
No concessions will be offered. The case is self-evident.

>>20990418
I have witnessed their infinite joy firsthand. I do not need to ask. You may continue to cope, with my blessing. Your suffering surely has meaning. It is surely deep and like whoa enlightenment that other people have better lives than you arbitrarily.

>>20990460
Achieving in le field is meaningless. Fields and games and being the best at memorizing the transcripts of all 400 episodes of your favorite japanese naruto cartoon are all on the same level - they are not the uniquely human inherent goodness of genuine time gated love. They are constructed artifices. You can arbitrarily invent a category and be good at it. The best at shmmoglebering the smongles. Oh wow. What a field of such greatness.

>>20990463
>No concessions will be offered. The case is self-evident.
Another concession, this one blushing and bashful. I accept it again, and give you a little French kiss on both cheeks, mwuh mwuh.

>>20990474
I offer my manhood and you graciously kiss that in its place. Throbbing, drenched in the most rancid of encrusted cheeses.

>>20990481
The words of the enlightened in love, everyone.

>>20982693
To think Moby Dick was published the year he turned 32.

>>20990463
Endless non-sequiturs. You aren't fit to diagnose copes. I never once said anything about meaning with regard to suffering. Meaning comes from trudging through the suffering and creating it (all meaning is derived from Creation of some sort of another) or in other words fruitful exertion of your will towards mastery of space. And the fact that you think someone else's joy is something that can be witnessed discursively, rather than what you're seeing being a derived image of it in your perception that you ascribe value to based on your personal neuroses, is a glaring example of the shaky foundations your worldview is built upon.

>>20990502
Meaning can't be created. Its sources are innate to humans and time gated in every life. The rest of your post is pseudo-Buddhist sophistry.

>>20990506
>Meaning can't be created
for you

>>20990511
For the human species.

>>20982693
I was no one till I saw combat for the first time in my late 20’s

>>20990537
Mistaking trauma for meaning.

>>20990522
For the P-Zombie

>>20990522
For "humans" like you
>>20990537
Where, when, and how?

>>20982862
H O T
O
T

I believe this image represents the people in these threads perfectly.
Insecure, envious, aimless, desperate, characters of the Houellebecq novel.

You are chasing happiness but you dont even know where it is

>>20990155
Are you retarded? Well I know you are.

I'm telling you women were doing insane things for me before I was 25 or even 22. I had a girl fly from Argentina to Europe to travel with me. She spent 3 months saving up to live with me in Europe. We travelled from Poland to France through Italy 90% by hitchhiking. It was an adventure and love story in every possible way imaginable. We were even homeless for a few weeks by the end of the trip since we ran out of cash, but I managed to resolve it.

You and other retards posting ITT will never experience this for sure because you're a boring gay that spends their entire day masturbating.

>>20990222
Are you actually committed to what is available? Unless you have cut out 99% of garbage from your life, do cardio and calisthenics at least 3x a week, and have a solid skin care routine and a diet you're not even close to actually doing anything about it. Most people will be like waah awaah I'm 25, life is over, while drinking beers, being fat and eating garbage, smoking and being in the most stressful environment they can be in. Physically, unless you're a top athlete, you shouldn't be falling apart before you're 50. You should look middle aged until then. Most people don't deserve anti aging because they're content to decay. I swear I've seen physically fit 50 year olds whose cardio ability outdoes at least half of the population aged under 30.

>>20991011
>>20990222
To add, that is only scratching the surface. There are treatments, procedures, etc. Things you'd want to invest in, such as micro needling among other things. It cannot be underestimated how much having the right mindset will help you though. I think what ages people the most is the attitude they adopt. Many are just content with boring life and routines. It's important to travel, to talk to people across all ages. Lots of people decline sexually too, so it is also important to have good sex as it has benefits. Unless you're celibate, which might have benefits of its own. People cry about wasting their lives here a lot, but when they're 25 they wish they were 20. When they'll be 30, they will wish they had done more at 25. When they're 50 they will think 30 was actually pretty young. Now is now, that is the only thing that matters. Maybe some author wrote the best shit ever at age 17, but most writers toil in obscurity, some don't start early, most are quite late to start. There's absolutely nothing but yourself preventing you from writing a great book. What most really want is not to write a great book, but to be "great", to be some sort of a genius without any effort, to just be considered a "great" author. Nobody wants to be the man who writes that book though. Much like the weakest in our society, they wish they had all the power in the world where nothing took any effort, but anyone who has done anything worth doing knows that nothing comes easy. In the end, mental strength is the greatest asset. Being strong minded and trusting yourself that you will succeed at some point matters more. 99% of /lit/ posters would have given up if put into McCarthy's shoes as he didn't succeed for most of his adult life. They would have spent their time crying about Voltaire having published some shit by the age of 20 or something.

>>20990840
This image is pretty good, the only thing wrong with it is the "losers vs winners" thing. Some people certainly are losers, just look at that one doomposter itt.

>>20991056
Doing le great arbitrary thing in category x is not meaningful. What is meaningful is what you were born biologically equipped to appreciate: time gated genuine love.

>>20991126

Usually the doomposters are just a trolls, if real guys like that exist they would already killed themselves

>>20992203
Nah, only pussies kill themselves. Doomposters are correct, and the only real men because they face bleak hopeless reality without coping.

>>20984575
Crypto is where it was in 2017 my dude

>>20991126
The entire concept of a loser/winner is dumb.
Life isn’t a game and there is no universal criteria for winning it.

>>20984190
>and I've definitely noticed big changes in my own self right around when I turned 26
about to turn 26 myself. i'm feeling a lot of things are gonna change soon. else i'll change them myself

>Realistically the most important aspects of life are all closed off to you by about 22. Genuine love from a woman, for example, requires her to latch her cart to your horse while you are still a serious risk and a gamble to bet on. If you have a career or even a degree before she does, you can never experience genuine love from a woman which is the most fundamental life experience for a man.

>Life isn’t a game and there is no universal criteria for winning it.

>>20982693
Melville sailed foreign lands, took part in a munity, and hung out with cannibals by the time he was 25 so I don't think you can compare

>>20986896
your manner of phrasing and use of specific words in tandem paints a picture of a /pol/tard. please keep it up so I don't have to think critically about whatever your containment board told you to believe

>>20992769
The fact that so many different sheltered boys are angered by my one post elevates its veracity. The truth is painful, I agree.

>The fact that so many different sheltered boys are angered by my one post elevates its veracity. The truth is painful, I agree.

>>20989957
I suppose I meant to imply that. This is something I vehemently disagree with.
>>20990136
Huh, you're right, I forgot mathematics is the only thing that matters in this world.
>>20990140
You joke but I worry about the fact that there are young men who sincerely believe this.

> >The fact that so many different sheltered boys are angered by my one post elevates its veracity. The truth is painful, I agree.

>>20992868
There are no young men who believe it because young men operate on hope. The more life experience you gain, the more you'll believe. If, however, you age but without gaining life experience, you will disbelieve it.

>>20992901
>There are no young men who believe it because young men operate on hope
You have no experience with young men if you think that.

>>20988888
BASED quints of TRUTH

>>20982693
>>20982812
Confucius only thought that he hit is prime at 70.

>>20992302
>they face bleak hopeless reality without coping.
they don't, they deal with it the worst of all

>>20982862
Bit gay, desu.

>>20988872
thanks for the rec. went through the first 80 pages and found it to be useful in a practical sense. very good for mapping risk and reward for those of us in that listless, soul-searching phase. for my situation, i've built a good deal of Identity Capital, but am lacking in Identity Crises. searching for crisis while maintaining capital is the way to go. all of the examples of late bloomers given so far are of men who were nonetheless still living full lives and building both the necessary capital and crises to come into their own when the opportunity presented itself.

>The postmillennial midlife crisis is figuring out that while we were busy making sure we didn’t miss out on anything, we were setting ourselves up to miss out on some of the most important things of all. It is realizing that doing something later is not automatically the same as doing something better. Too many smart, well-meaning thirtysomethings and fortysomethings grieve a little as they face a lifetime of catching up. They look at themselves—and at me sitting across the room—and say about their twenties, “What was I doing? What was I thinking?”
for anyone interested, reading the intro will be enough to see if it's useful for you. if you're in any way worried about your future in terms of work, love, or family but have put it off due to believing you still have time, this will give a good kick in the head, and then some actionable ideas.

>>20993955
You cannot catch up on what you missed out on in your 20s. By the time 30 rolls around, as a man you either have a loving wife you've been together with since 20/21 and one or more children, or you are fucked in terms of genuine love and life goals.

>>20987724
He may have been a fudge-packer, but holy shit, Melville could write.

>>20986929
And the Night King was 8,000 years old when he finally invaded Westeros ...

>>20983863
I was at my most creative, most virile, most athletic, most curious, most industrious, most open-minded and most motivated before the age of 25.
We live more intensely in youth. And if you didn't, I feel sorry for you.

>>20988279
If you don't even know how to capitalize, don't even think about commenting on literature.

>>20994493
Well what happened after 25? Don't you think if one actively chooses to not let themselves go they can maintain this energy until their 30s at least?

>>20994646
I became a wagie, and all the joy drained out of life. Actually I was 24, not even 25. Once we embrace adulthood, we become compromised. Our spare time and spare energy dwindle away. It's even worse if you get married and have kids.
Fortunately, I retired at the age of 49, and finally rediscovered that sense of liberty I hadn't felt since my early twenties.
Take my advice: avoid obligations, save your money, and get out of the rat race as early as you can.

>>20992302

Doomers are the worst copers of all, they embrace genetic determinism and social darwinism, yet according to their logic they should off themselves as they are worthless accidents, yet here they are, shitposting and trying to demotivate people anonymously.

Look, if you are true to a pessimistic outlook, where you agree that everything is hopeless, if you are honest and live by these principles, then suicide is the only outcome, simple as.

>>20983184
Can tripfagging schizos born in 1995 stay on their blogs and youtube channels cause this was some of the gayest shit I ever read

>>20983184
Even by /lit/ standards, this is unacceptable pseudery.
You should kill yourself, and not just for being a tripfag.

>>20994698
Did you get married and have kids?
Do you regret it?

>>20994790
No, and no. Partly by choice, and partly due to fate. I've genuinely never met a woman I wanted to marry.
You could argue that I missed out on an essential human experience, and you might be right; I guess I'll never know. But I maintain that my present state of contentment justifies my choices in life. I've enjoyed the company of women, and got away scot free, with no regrets.

>>20987440
>having been able to experience childhood from the perspective of the world prior to the introduction of mass technology and surveillance, and then experiencing this same world from the perspective of adolescence to adulthood, the differences can be plainly seen.
This cannot be overstated. Elementary school and high school were incredibly different experiences.

>>20994724
No, because suicide is bitchshit. Hopelessness is just a fact, there is no "only outcome". There is nothing that points to anything as a "solution". That is the point. Suicide or no suicide, makes no difference. So far have not seen a coherent argument against doomers, yours included. They all assume that you should have some final action/solution. But the doomers aren't presenting a problem, they're presenting a viewpoint. They're not calling for solutions, they're just saying "this is how it is, whatever". So suggesting an action as a response shows that you don't even understand the words you read that are being communicated to you.

>>20982693
This actually makes me feel better about my life

>>20982693
Why do random /lit/ fags think that the retarded ideas that pop into their head that sorta apply to them applies 100% to every person? And why do they never actually make any arguments backing this up?

>>20995088
this place is for highbrow literary shitposting and the only way to reliably get (You)s is to be provocative

>>20995047
>So far have not seen a coherent argument against doomers, yours included.
How is someone supposed to refute a subjective value judgement? You define something as the ultimate good (despite having never experienced it yourself) and then claim that anyone who missed out on this ultimate good is doomed to a life of misery. Anyone who claims to have still managed to find some kind of satisfaction is then dismissed as coping. It all boils down to your emotions = valid, and everyone elses emotions = cope. Even if it is a cope, what is the alternative? Not coping? You say that you're presenting a viewpoint, not a problem, but if a viewpoint can't be used to inform behaviour then why listen to it? And if you don't expect anyone to listen then why mention it? You're just shouting into the void and then reacting with contempt when anyone bothers to respond.

>>20987124
And all that is of no accomplishment because the fr*nch think shitting out millions of lazy rhymed couplets constitutes good poetry

>>20994216
ok

>>20995047
>Hopelessness is just a fact
Maybe for losers like you.

>>20995589
k

>>20995409
Yes. That is all there is to do.

>>20982693
Being 40 I can probably weigh in on this. I was (and still kind of am) a musician for most of my life. I got a second wind around my late 30s where I took up writing. Every epoch needs a breath of fresh air every twenty or so years

>>20985098
Any way to prevent divorce? I mean through legalistic means.

>>20995409
Value is supposed to be objective or the world falls into disarray. There is one truth, one wisdom. Any apparent dualism is the work of tyranny.

>>20983196
Same for me. I feel like I wasn’t even really alive until 24. I remember becoming conscience of myself as an agent what works on behalf of my soul the same way I remember becoming conscious of myself as a body at age 4.

>>20983297
> “Life is the first 20 years. Everything else is reflection.” -Norman Mailer
I don’t buy this at all. In high school I was a regular football-playing chad who was kissing girls and partying, and in college I was a regular dude who joined a fraternity and partied and did all the normal regular shit that people on this website claim they’ve missed out on… and even still this isn’t true. My 17-20 was eventless and worthless besides some good pussy and parties. And I was a /lit/ nerd too, in college, in a hard major. If I have to spend my life thinking about 0-20, I’d kill myself right now. I don’t even think about them at all, as 24-26 was far more important in terms of development for me and when all the interesting shit happened in my life. Your assertion is cringe.

>>20986898
If you truly think this you must be a gargantuan fucking loser.

>>20988872
Great book, really helped me at 25. If nothing else, this is the one book you need to read to make sure you never get divorced.

>>20988888
Checked and correct

>>20990070
>>20988872
>”30 is the new 20” is a meme and wrong
>20s is when you set the groundwork for career, fitness, relationships, experiences, everything. It is the defining decade of your life
>your brain goes thru a second synaptic pruning in your mid twenties - whatever you’re doing 23-28 is what you’re going to spend your life doing - just like toddlers learning many languages but only remember the ones the need to use
>divorce happens because people date casually into their 30s, and then get married at 33 because they think they’re supposed to do so when really they’re essentially just roommates who have sex with each other, and shouldn’t be dating in the first place, let alone getting married
>if you never had six pack abs in your twenties, you will not grow them in your thirties. Not because of physical limitation, but because the habits/groundwork/values isn’t there and can’t be built as easily in your thirties. Same with degrees/careers/weight loss/relationships.
>”focusing on career” is a meme, there is no career that precludes dating, life planning, saving. Neglecting career is also a meme. Essentially, you need to figure out the balance now, before you have kids/house/pets/mortgage/dead or sick parents/health issues
>you’re never going to have this much cartilage in your knees ever again
It’s actually a really good book and everyone should read it, even if they’re in their 30s.

>>20990136
But I was never going to be a great mathematician anyway so I don’t care

>>20995734
Nah, just waiting for you further on down the maturity curve. I reached where you'll be at 60, at 16.

>>20995758
The only difference between being a great mathematician and not being one in terms of turning 30 is the ability to reason, adapt, and live life.

At 30, you being a potent and powerful decline in ability to transform your life. Hence why no one who has not made it by then makes it.

>>20982693
>Jung said one doesn't start living until they're 40 years of age. What do you think?
Wow, I think it's time for me to start hitting on some 20 year olds then. Hey ladies, anyone interested in a silver fox in the onset of his life?

>>20994698
> Once we embrace adulthood, we become compromised
Speak for yourself you fucking loser I’m 26 and make 99th percentile salary for my age working fully remote getting to travel the world chasing the best weather and sports and nature and experiences. You LET yourself die. I didn’t.

>>20984190
Specifically, iirc Aristotle said a man's prime is 39 (or 38. one of those) and for women it was 18. This means that to him, the ideal relationship is a 39 year old man and an 18 year old woman (a.k.a. girl). I agree. Age difference relationships are the best.

>>20995047

Suicide is intrinsically connected with hopeless pessimism, is the logical answer to it. If you refuse it, then you admit that theres still possibility of chance and hope. They present their ideas as viewpoints, and following those concludes inherently on suicide.

You debunk yourself in your own post. If they keep on living, despite being believers of the objective blackpill, they are still living in a way which contradicts the supossedly objective way of living, which means that theres not one only objective way.

>>20995750
>if you never had six pack abs in your twenties, you will not grow them in your thirties. Not because of physical limitation, but because the habits/groundwork/values isn’t there and can’t be built as easily in your thirties. Same with degrees/careers/weight loss/relationships.
not never, it's just harder
I ended up speedreading the book anyway and it was worth it. I'm 23 so I'm going to continue to spend the rest of my 20s lifting, reading, and learning languages. No idea what to do for the career meme though as I'm an educated neet with no work experience.
>you’re never going to have this much cartilage in your knees ever again
Does this mean you should run or shouldn't?

>>20995777
pretty sure he said 37 o blessed trips

>>20995750

>your brain goes thru a second synaptic pruning in your mid twenties - whatever you’re doing 23-28 is what you’re going to spend your life doing - just like toddlers learning many languages but only remember the ones the need to use

Standard /r9k/ cope man come on

>divorce happens because people date casually into their 30s, and then get married at 33 because they think they’re supposed to do so when really they’re essentially just roommates who have sex with each other, and shouldn’t be dating in the first place, let alone getting married

Modern divorces happen because woman want to fuck only chad and riding the cock carousel, and they get away with it because they dont need beta providers anymore. Boomers are getting constantly divorce even when they get married at 20. If this woman is going for the love meme in 2020 book disregarded.

>if you never had six pack abs in your twenties, you will not grow them in your thirties. Not because of physical limitation, but because the habits/groundwork/values isn’t there and can’t be built as easily in your thirties. Same with degrees/careers/weight loss/relationships

/r9k/ cope again

>”focusing on career” is a meme, there is no career that precludes dating, life planning, saving. Neglecting career is also a meme. Essentially, you need to figure out the balance now, before you have kids/house/pets/mortgage/dead or sick parents/health issues

I dont know if americans are fucking retarded, but i live in a country where poor people have like 4-7 kids each, and they keep on living, if you need this advice and you are more retarded than a poor thirdworlder you might as well just give up.

Not reading this, i already got what i needed, my problem with this sort of advice is the same with the altright/redpill advice, they dont recognize that we are in an age where we cant go back to previous solutions.

Woman are just going to whore themselves more and more to chad (face and height) as time passes. You get married, you did everything fine, they divorce you anyways. After man take more and more the blackpill, everyone is going to distance more and more. What are you going to do, cuck your life for your fat american wife?

You want kids? If you do paternity tests 90% of those kids are going to belong to 20% of man ( same for boomers).

The other is cope man. If you are going to leave the power of your will to whoever tells you its extent, it means that you didnt have any at all to begin with.

>>20991260
See >>20990997.

>>20995703
Not to turn this into commiseration time but what do you wish you feel you did in place of the parties and pussy? Because to me that sounds pretty based.

>>20995767
You make this as a joke but my grandfather was fucking people in there 20s well until he curled over and died of a heart attack at 79. How do I know? I actually saw it.

>>20995772
>I’m 26
Oh my sweet summer child.

>>20995688
What's the point? Unless you keep your wife tied up in the basement, you can't stop her leaving you. You'll be divorced in all but name anyway.

>>20996296
Those were hookers, anon.

>>20995130
That's retarded, btw the quote that you are paraphrasing isn't by anybody named Cunningham, but by a Usenet poster before eternal september about how if you posted a question nobody would respond, but if you posted the wrong answer you would have a dozen grad students correcting you. This was never true for the www

>>20995984
keep in mind, you're just reading someone's tl;dr. it's pretty easy to take the parts that are useful and ignore/substitute the rest. end of the day the book's just about seeing how much harder a lot of things are going to be if you don't pay attention to them now. the value's just in spelling it out a bit more clearly.

no idea how "real" the blackpill is over there, but i assume it's a pill that's done you some good.

>>20995928
>I'm an educated neet with no work experience.
is that viable where you live? if i knew without a doubt i could keep that life up with no repercussions then i would, but families aren't cheap. not the one you start out with, nor the one you make. doubtless, it does seem quite free. though my nerves could never handle it.

>>20996613
>is that viable where you live?
No
>if i knew without a doubt i could keep that life up with no repercussions then i would
Same. But it's already tense at home and if I were to move out then I'd require a proper job anyway so either way there's no choice.

>>20990422
this isn't /adv/ but you should get a job. just be very critical about everything you do. you'll probably never find out what you want to do, but everything that you DON'T want to do will get clearer and clearer e.g., a 60 hour work week job that only pays $60K a year. knowing what you won't put up with (AFTER actually putting up with it, not before) makes everything much clearer and allows you to free up the mental resources you actually need to make what you want happen.

get a sales job. hate it? use everything you picked up there to try out something you're more likely to be able to do (not necessarily enjoy). get a dev job. hate it? repeat. each time you do that, you end up finding out a little bit more about what you're actually willing to put up with. no longer as vague "ooh that sounds interesting" but a very clear and weighty "yes". i had to go through all that just to realize that i'd rather work 4 hours a day on a decent salary than 8 hours on a good one. but the other realization was that, in the process, i ended up with the skillsets and "vision" to make it even possible.

the important thing is to do. no amount of thought can make up for action, as dozens of nauseating truisms go. people who sit on their asses most of the day have their thoughts become a source of entertainment. they get a taste for thinking and end up believing that only the most intricate and profound thoughts are the ones worth having. and so the simpler but much more useful thoughts (often those much closer to action) are ignored. you need to get a taste for action

>>20996646
>4 hours a day
What do you do?

>>20996637
you've got your work cut out for you then. there was an anon who did data science or software (can't remember) but left it all behind to pursue NEETdom and read. to be fair, his parents were already set and the remaining wealth he built, along with the fact that he could probably still find employment again if he tried, made that life possible in the first place.

it seems there really is no way out of negotiating with the material aspects of existence.

anyone have any recs for books about people who reluctantly succeed in life out of necessity? could really use a good dose of that. only thing that comes to mind is Titan by Ron Chernow

>>20990422
The most important piece of advice you can get is how precious time is, and how your sense of time changes over your 20s. From 18-27 you basically feel like time is infinite and years somehow last ten years. So you keep putting stuff off until you can do it right, assuming it'll be one of the things you do in your late 20s. Then you're 30 and you didn't do any of it.

Make a list of all the shit that's non-negotiable for you to achieve by 25, like you want to learn to play guitar and learn two languages, whatever. Any time you gain a new thing that's non-negotiable, like you decide you want to get good at cooking, or you want to make the best video essays about some topic you love, add it to the list. Every month you have to have done something major that meaningfully moves you toward each goal. It can be as big as enrolling in a class or as small as reading a book or buying your first cooking set or video equipment or guitar and just playing around with it for a while, but you HAVE to do one thing per non-negotiable life goal per month (obviously barring weird circumstances).

This will also teach you how limited time is. It's fucking hard to decide which of your limited weekend days to spend fucking around with a guitar. This will then teach you how miserable being stuck in a dead end job forever is.

Also watch this ASAP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8uhcRK1QKU

Don't make grand plans about family and shit, at 20 your brain is fucking not even formed, I see 20 year olds the way you see a 13 year old, basically not even a full human yet. You should plan and think about the future but just burn it into your mind as soon as possible that your entire consciousness is going to change and develop fifty times over in the next 5-10 years. This is good and normal, and if you do it right then you'll be able to see how each step was necessary and made sense, even the steps that seemed like a total reversal of everything from the previous step.

In addition to the non-negotiable thing I strongly strongly recommend making sure you read at least a bit of literature every day, or at least regularly. Don't read books fitfully, put aside at least 30-60 mins a day and make yourself a lifelong reader, and after 5-10 years it will make you 10x the person you would have been without it.

Seriously the Sam Hyde video is on point. You can't plan for every economic twist and turn but you CAN put the fear of God into yourself about turning 25 or 30 and still being "finding yourself." The world is full of shitty perpetual newbie programmers and graphics designers who never get good enough to do it for money, or people going into debt for a third degree in their 30s because they didn't lay any firm foundations in their 20s.

>>20996662
i'm not saying i've achieved it, just that's it's actually visible on the horizon for once.
completely different circumstances depending on where you live, but i'm in ecommerce. it's basically a stone's throw away from either starting your own agency, or your own store. exits for decently successful businesses go in the 7 figures. but there's a huge amount of effort involved in getting it off the ground, and another to sell it.

>>20996675
Good for you anon.
From what I've seen that's a really difficult and saturated field to get established in at this point.
>>20996668
>you've got your work cut out for you then.
Probably. I have a masters degree in a stem related field but even if you jump through all the normie hoops to get a job wages here (UK) are mid tier at best and you're still selling your soul 40+ hours a week.

I'm much slower and my brain is rotting at 24, despite I've gotten a bachelors + masters degree in mathematics. I have been steadily employed for almost five years already (studied full-time, worked full-time), and now I'm looking at my previous accomplishments or pieces of code I wrote and I cannot believe it's me who did it.

>>20996692
>that's a really difficult and saturated field to get established in at this point.
it definitely is. pure luck that i'm on good terms with my boss and high up in the company. makes it much easier to get things done, and the experience just makes any plan more realistic.
>>20996692
>you're still selling your soul 40+ hours a week.
might as well sell it to the highest bidder then, is what i always thought. if it's all a chore anyway, it ought to pay damn well. but money isn't the only variable, workload is too. took me way longer to realize this than i should have. would take same wages for a 20-25 hour week any day. with highly specialized fields, this becomes more possible due to consulting, gigs, part-time work, etc. but of course, you'd know better from experience in your field.

>>20995839
Nope, no action is prescribed by observation and announcement of what one sees (hopelessness being the simple ground reality). You are simply superimposing your personal value system on what is being announced. There is nothing that ever calls for any action innately. The only things that are called for are those things which are involuntary, like natural death from aging which is unavoidable. No voluntary actions, like suicide, ever have an objective impetus.

>>20996733
>hopelessness being the simple ground reality
how tho?

>>20996719
>my brain is rotting at 24
hardcore porn addiction? competitive vidya? stimulant abuse? at 24 you haven't even peaked

>>20996790
We were once united with the world and all creation, but with the arising of consciousness, we began to have lives of our own. We are paradoxical, puppets that somehow cut their strings and walked off stage

>>20996719
Your priorities just changed. The pressures you had to go through as a working student and in your first job have begun to loosen up. Now I believe you're suffering from a life of listless luxury. I believe your more immediate existential insecurities have been resolved, leaving behind the more vague and nebulous anxieties that are more permitting to laziness. Of course, that could all be wrong. But I find that in the absence of any immediate threat, the mind always tends to degrade.

>>20996843
how does consciousness lead to hopelessness? could not the very opposite become possible? could not consciousness and the separation from the world become the very prerequisites for hope?

>>20996859
You either get it or you don't. There is some merit to the ad hom that pessimists are cowards, malcontents, etc. You can either decide that humanity is a rational force searching for Being or that Being is a force that propels us irrationally

>>20996873
>You can either decide that humanity is a rational force searching for Being or that Being is a force that propels us irrationally
Both are true in people. In the Corpus Hermeticum it says that all men have sense but few have mind, some people merely operate on the level of animals. A mind is something that has to be cultivated, like a plant, and it's a process of moving out of irrationally propulsion by Being and gaining the rational ability to search for and become aware of Being.

>>20996824
I used to be quite good at competitive videogames back in the days, 2015-2016 (somewhat good at Q3, highest rank in CS:GO). I'm trying to give up porn and get some SSRI, last time I took drugs was at 20 and I never touched anything since. Never tried stimulants.

>>20996848
I think you're partly right. I've got my own place, I've got the funds enough to not work for two years, but I stopped caring about the progression and I don't care about striving for more, meanwhile my friends are either obtaining higher positions in management, getting Ph.D, changing countries / getting married. Besides; the existential anxiety have only permeated, the degree was a goal, now the goal is unclear.

>But I find that in the absence of any immediate threat, the mind always tends to degrade.
You are absolutely correct.

>>20996994
>get some SSRI
yeah don't
>But I find that in the absence of any immediate threat, the mind always tends to degrade.
How to simulate threat?

>>20982693
25 is when most of the prefrontal cortex develops, which is said to be the reasoning, decision making and "intellectual" hub so yes. I agree

>>20995965
Oh yeah. Thanks anon. I’m annoyed that both of my guesses were wrong tho lol

>>20995984
Brother you’re calling me a coper when you wrote a 2000 word bitch essay about a fucking summary of a book? Jesus Christ.

>>20996136
That’s the thing. It’s like I missed out on something I can only quantify now in my twenties but I really did not. There is no great big missing part, I was just on autopilot. Passive, reactive, letting things happen to me. A victim or an agent at the world’s whims and not my own. There are things I would have done differently, sure, but my point is that those of you who felt that they missed out because of lack of parties and pussy actually did not. The feeling is the same for both types of men.

>>20996353
Do you live in a world where 26yos can’t get high-paying tech jobs? Lol
I live in DC and every 25 yo I know with the word “engineer” in their title (so most of them) are making 6 figures easy

>>20997147
I was referring to your tender age, dumbass.
They're paying you too much.

>>20997015
>How to simulate threat?
In all cases, it's in thinking about the future. The more immediate the better. All threats are simulations. After all, a threat is merely the expectation of harm. Of course, the actual experience of harm is much better. Nobody is more careful than right after they touch a hot stove.

Think about how you'll never find a woman, how you'll never marry, never be worthy of love the way you are now. Think about how your family and children would absolutely suffer thanks to the choices you've made so far. About how you're just a hair's breadth away from welfare, from living in the slums, from using public transport. Think about how other men, regular men, most men, could easily be doing better than you on all these accounts. But all the better it is to live this. You will never fool yourself twice. If none of these things suit your fancy, then you ought to go out and find your own authentic distress. Find your enemies, and keep your fears close beside. You'll find that it won't be diligence that keeps you up at night, but obsession.

Above all, refuse apathy. It is the utmost sign that one has become accustomed to the threat, and ultimately accepted it no longer as a possibility but an inevitability. It may initially feel like a sigh of relief, but that last breath of air carried in it all hope you had of "changing" things. In truth, nothing really changes. We merely pay our pound in flesh for a few ounces of justification, but the price must first be paid for our scarecrows against reality. All the reasons for accepting hopelessness, even when they are true, especially when they are true, are themselves merely shadows of emotions. A brighter spirit with the same mind could easily deduce their way into hope, just as the gloomy spirits find the most convincing arguments for hopelessness. But what makes one spirit bright and another gloomy? A matter of taste.

>>20996994
>get some SSRI,
this garbage ruined my life

>>20997232
>>20997015
What happened? Don't you have to adjust the dosage and medications if you feel worse?

>>20996994
>now the goal is unclear.
Well, when you figure it out, let me know. Always good to see what a man does after he's covered the more base parts of life, and found the more beaten paths to be uninviting. For your sake, I hope you haven't put these off on the belief that you have time to spare.

>>20996613

My problem with this is that seeing how harder things are going to get, is something most people already know, that is not what their problem is, their problem is that people are not pursuing these stuff because in their life situation they cant do it in first place, the possibility of doing so is not there, or because they realize that they have to relearn things that they were teached and took for granted, but that in their new reality are no like that.

Imagine a young chinese guy, they have that shaming culture where they have to check all these boxes, wife job family etc, he is 25 and still alone, his parents pressure him to get a wife, guy knows waht to do and everything, doesnt change the fact that china has an imbalance of sex population. He ends up becoming one of the millions of chinese leftover man involuntarily.

Lets say you have a young pajeet that is from a lower chaste, he knows succesful pajeets go get a cs degree, he knows this since he is 6, he turns 18, he cant enter college, he doesnt have the experience, status, time nor money like the other succesful people, he stays a low class citizen as many man from india.

An ugly guy in america has a crush on a girl, he makes all the correct moves, yet he is rejected, for the 67 time, he is still a virgin. Enters internet and begins to learn all these knowledge on why it doesnt work out for him. This goes against everything he knew about human relationships. He needs to reevaluate his vision.

It gets harder is obvious, but it was as harder for the ugly guy to get a woman at 27, the same way it was harder for him to get a girlfriend at 15. When is it early if not at the begining? Well most people have very mediocre beginings. Parents which dont inherit 'em knowledge, poor economic situations, etc.

I say that this "it gets harder" argument doesnt consider the reality of peoples lives. We are slaves to our surroudings, and if you got dealed a shitty card, or you werent dealed a card at all, or you dont understand what the fuck you were dealed because its outside of the rules, then you just cant do anything about it, or you will have to think what to do about it now.

>>20997127

Gotta point the cope where it is, simple as. If you think is not cope, then you are the coper.

>2000 words

Just 267 according to wordcounter, not many for a literature board boyiboyo

>>20982693
This is interesting because even getting your life together at 25 is an accomplishment these days. The entire millennial generation is a disaster and many of them are now approaching 40.

>>20982693
>Jung said one doesn't start living until they're 40 years of age. What do you think?
I haven't met anyone in real life who would agree on that statement at all. Don't waste your teenage years and your 20s if possible. That is easier said than done, especially without a proper mentor or friend that wants to take the same path. Otherwise you will probably have to deal with the cards that you have been given, your family, nation, environment, looks, genes, etc. Mainstream media is probably going to affect you negatively as well, at least by influencing the people around you.
I had a few bad cards and a few excellent ones and I did not know how to play them, there was little help for me. Right now at the age of 29 the results are mixed and I do have regrets while I take the successes for granted or perceive them as far less relevant. There is one thing I realised: You will need a lot of skills and good traits in order to be successful in your 20s and in your life in general.

>>20996673
>The most important piece of advice you can get is how precious time is, and how your sense of time changes over your 20s. From 18-27 you basically feel like time is infinite and years somehow last ten years. So you keep putting stuff off until you can do it right, assuming it'll be one of the things you do in your late 20s. Then you're 30 and you didn't do any of it.
True, I experienced it that way as well. However having a 'non-negotiable' list and achieving more of my goals back then would not have been a guarantee for later satisfaction, since some goals or desires have changed, such as having a waifu - it wasn't on my list in my early 20s. Plus->

>>20997334
>people are not pursuing these stuff because in their life situation they cant do it in first place, the possibility of doing so is not there, or because they realize that they have to relearn things that they were teached and took for granted, but that in their new reality are no like that.
Spot on anon.

Good thread. I'm 19 and spend all day on campus reading silently in the library and have zero friends. I've proven utterly incapable of meeting people. Please tell me things get better.

>>20997661
They won't unless you're actively applying yourself. And believe me; if you are not going forwards -- you are going backwards.

>>20994493
None of that came to me until my early/mid 20s. Until then it was mostly wasted/misspent time. I did nothing with my time, only wasting it away, and from experience I can tell you that's what most people that age do. If your youth was anything different then you are the exception. There's certainly something to say about decrease in energy and time, but the former happens gradually and isn't something that is an issue at 25 or even 30 unless you are not taking care of your body as you should be; the latter is at least in part a matter of choice. And in regards to this post:
>>20994698
It shouldn't have to be stated that many feel marriage and parenthood give them a sense of fulfilment and purpose. Keep in mind this discussion is not solely about contributions of the sort Melville provided to the world. We're also talking about living and development of the self.

>>20997661
I’m 20 pursuing a useless degree at a mediocre college with no friends and no job. All I think about every day is how much better my life would be if I had met the potential I had in high school and pursued scholarships and prestigious schools. It probably won’t get better. But if all you’re looking for is friends, then you need to find them

>>20997768
We're much in the same position. Except that I don't regret pursuing a useless degree at a mediocre school (yet). I just think it would be nice to have some friends, but I don't know how to find any.

>>20983274
Aristotle was born into great wealth, mind you.

>>20997661
Brother join a club or something. Join a fraternity or a DND group or a Spanish club or a birdwatching group or something. It will never again be as easy to make friends as it is in college.
>be you
>sign up for intramural ultimate frisbee
>show up to the practices
>now you have friends
That’s it.

>>20997661
There is a book called 'How to be Alone Forever'. It seems like I can't post pdfs on /lit/ but you can probably find it with enough searching. It was written, by a anon in his late 30s/early 40s. He had a job and could act normal around his colleagues but he had no friends and had never had a romantic relationship. As the title suggests, it is a collection of advice for people who are past the point of no return. You should read it, not because of this advice, but because it will show you the misery that awaits you if you don't change. That should spook you enough to try anything to escape the same fate.

>>20997802
>yet
It'll come soon enough

>>20997872
You can change as you might, I certainly tried endlessly and still ended up alone. There is nothing but misery that awaits a certain proportion of people no matter how they try. And you know before you try, if you look closely enough, if that will be you. The trying is inconsequential. Social success is as genetic as what species you are.

>>20982693
I'm 72; a retired janitor, kissless, virgin who wasted his youth masturbating but not getting laid. I tried for 30 years to no avail; never went to a prostitute but god I wish I did now because my dick doesn't work. I'm addicted to painkillers and rotting on my bed in an old people's home. I have just learned about 4chan and came at the right moment because at 72 my life is still waiting for its peak, It will come, I'll stop the tramadol and my dick will come back up hard. I shall penetrate yet brothers. HOW SOFT IS IT, I CAN ONLY IMAGINE.

>>20997854
I hope you're righ, Anon. I just joined the bookclub Discord.

>>20998367
seriously?

>>20998400
What does that image even supposed to mean?

>>20983626
People certainly have an inner life, but without writing, much of that inner life is wasted. I can have a pleasant journey through the mind of someone who died hundreds of years ago, if they wrote.
>>20983647
Is Jontron the one who ruined the chinstrap beard? I can't take the look seriously.

>>20998400
When I was a young lad the world seemed strange to me. The atom bombs should of fell but they didn't and even though I surely shouldn't have been born, I was. Up in the air is how I would describe society. I never partied even though I desperately wanted, but I had no friends cause my parents were poor and isolated. I desperately wanted a girlfriend to love all my life, but one never came along who liked me back, I'm pretty ugly and obviously strange. I just started cleaning young and kept to my career. Between 20 and 72 life was just a rush of nothing. Nothing happened, the craziest period of history and nothing happened to me. God, I thought god would at least figure but I never felt it. There's no god. I never even felt alive, no one told me how. I retired from the offices I used to clean, no one who started with me was there when I left. They gave me a certificate.

I just wanted to be loved. But people don't care if you don't fight. I died at 16 when I chose to masturbate over chicks instead of fucking them. After that, the rest has been a slow suicide.

>>20998367
i kneel if true lmao

>>20982862
I think he forgot to say no homo

>>20998519
The moon gets dimmer as you age you know. I swear some nights I mgiht one day see through it and find a black wall for a sky. I had a friend who killed himself 15 years ago, he did it because his wife died, I've often thought the reason I haven't killed myself is that I never had a good reason.

>>20998505
I know how you feel grandpa. I've been trying to tell the children in this thread that life is a vale of tears.

>>20998373
>I just joined a club dedicated to a solitary activity

>>20998505
If its any consolation I actively pursued women and had the same fate so its not as if you would have had a different outcome had you tried.

>>20982862
God I wish that were me.

>>20998373
It’s better than nothing. But it’s still discord. I’ve never used that zoomer shit (technically I am a zoomer by DOB, but still).
If anyone asks to meet up, you just go. Also, join multiple clubs. Make friends in classes. You need to kind on insist that your lab project partners come with you to hang out outside of school. So complete your part, and then invite to happy hour. Join the cycling club and insist that people join you to a local bar to watch a hockey game. People will go with you because healthy people like doing things.

>>20999185
Thanks for the advice, Anon. I hate discord too, but I'm pretty sure that it's the only way to get info about meetings in person. I'm also looking for info on other clubs.
But regarding meeting people in class: how do you engage conversation with the people seated next to you? I can never find a good pretext for doing it. I always feel it would come off as forced or strange.

>>20999290
It’s only forced or strange for the first 2 sentences. Really, truly. Then it’s just normal.
>hey how’s it going
>homework was tough last night huh
>haha yeah
>have you taken GAYG 204 yet
>yeah why
>who’d you have for it
>ms Cockass
>how was she
>oh my god bro the worst

There. That’s it.

>>20987440
You are really an npc. Generalising a whole year just because (you) were born in it. I was born in 92 and I feel the same way