/lit/ - Literature

>>20952029
I'll shoot. Critique me.

How can I become the next F Gardner bros?

>>20952062
Why would you want to be a hack who isn't even original with his drudgery?

I have a story idea, but I have no idea what genre it would fall under. It's not a romance, because it has a love triangle and cheating. But it's not women's fiction either, because it has both a man protagonist and a woman protagonist. And I don't know how inspirational it's going to end up. If it was a show it would be a soap opera or a drama, but as a book, I have no idea what if would fall under.

Here's the plot: It's about three college students, the summer before they graduate. They're working at the same company as interns. The guy and Girl A (we'll call her Roxanne) have known each other since highschool and hate each other's guts. She thinks he's a hard ass overly driven person, and he thinks she's judgemental and bitchy. They're competing against each other for a return offer from the company. Then there's Girl B (I have no idea what her name is). Roxanne knows this guy has a thing for Girl B and when the guy finds out Roxanne's secret that could ruin her reputation, she calls a truce and offers to help him get Girl B. They put their plan in motion and their plan keeps falling apart because he's so bad with women. So she decides to teach him how to act and what to do. The plan works and eventually the guy and Girl B start going out. Only, now it slowly dawns on the guy how over the past month, him and Roxanne got along better than he does with Girl B.
He tries to break up with Girl B, but he can't because something terrible happens to her (sick sister dies) so he decides to keep it a secret because he feels it would be terrible to dump her after something like that
Roxanne doesn't say anything at first and they both feel guilty about what they're doing but as time goes on, she gets angry at him for not telling her
Then drama ensues

>>20952060
It's garbage and you should feel bad.

>>20952060
It's great and you should feel great.

>>20952264
Awful.

>>20952060
It's okay and it shouldn't affect how you feel.

>>20952060
(1)
Each paragraph should have one subject.
>Dew drops cover my coat and rifle, collecting and falling with every movement. The vegetation is a brown and gray mass with evergreen splotches seldom piercing the horizon. There is no snow, yet ice covers the grasses and waters.
This one is about the dampness and cold of the forest. Expand on it: Tell me how the wetness affects his clothes. Tell me what he does to prevent his hands from going numb. Tell me about the water and ice twinkling in the sunlight. Tell me about the vapor coming out of his mouth or the smell of wet mud or many other things that will put me right next to the protagonist. And expand every subsequence paragraph as well.
>Walking along river beds is my only chance at silent movement.
Expand. Be descriptive with how he walks.
>The forest teaches you things that people would otherwise be oblivious to. The slight snap of a branch pinpoints your exact location. Although the world seems desolate during this time of year, it bustles with life. Only the observant eye can thrive in this landscape. I hear the distant crackle of crows inviting other murders to their feeding foray, though they won't rest for long.
It doesn’t flow, going from fourth-wall breaking to sights to sounds in one or two sentences each.
>Through the stalks of grass creeps a hare joining his herd. This one is too small for me to feel comfortable taking it. I steady my rifle and aim at the one before him. He's old. Dying quickly is preferable to being run down by a wolf.
I can’t place where the hares are in relation to the man or see the evidence the man used to determine that one is young, and one is old and dying.
>With my conscience eased my finger grazes the trigger and my breathing slows. A crack clashes with the silence and the hare lays lifeless amidst the brambles. The crows
scatter overhead, their shadows cutting through the misty sky while hares disappear into the bush.
Make the kill more impactful.

>>20952060
(2)
>Relief floods my body and my heart softens its pounding. Rising from my squat to inspect my kill, I pick up my spent casing. The wooden furniture slightly steams from the sudden outburst of heat. Dew no longer rests on my barrel. I grab the hare and loop its feet through the lanyard on my belt next to my other successful kills.
The environment disappeared and turned into a blank void. Where did the casting land on or roll to? What does the murder scene look like? or does his boot crack the ice or stuck in the mud or weed?
>Glancing at my watch, I make my way towards the village. It's time to go. I usually don't hunt before my runs but finding food is especially harsh now. I quickly field dress the game and pack it into a bag, as the cold weather should keep it safe.
Field dressing a corpse while walking ought to make a mess.
>Crossing through fields and thickets, the images of my hunt race through my memory. My mind is at peace. The forest is my escape from a painful life. The cities are a concrete wasteland forgotten by the larger world and left to rot. While nature is largely forgotten too, it thrives. It helps me thrive.
The images race through my memory…my mind is at peace, are opposites, no?
>A white sun is setting behind gray clouds, just dim enough to look at. In the distant north are silhouettes of massive housing blocks and industrial plants, contaminating the skyline. Ahead of me lies the small village.
There’s a picture here, but it looks like a kid’s drawing. Be more precise. Use metaphors and similes.

>>20952060
>yet ice covers the grasses and waters
Unless there are different types of grass and water, this should just be
>yet ice covers grass and water

>The forest teaches you things that...
Delete 'that'.
>Rising from my squat to inspect my kill, I pick up my spent casing.
I'm not sure if this sounds odd because of the three 'my's, or maybe because the second 'my' should be a 'the'.
>The cities are a concrete wasteland forgotten by the larger world and left to rot.
Just for clarification, do you imagine cities as individual concrete wastelands or as one huge concrete wasteland when taken together? If it's the former, then your sentence should be
>The cities are concrete wastelands...

>While nature is largely forgotten too, it thrives.
This doesn't immediately read as a juxtaposition of contradictory states, but more like an agreement of those states. The reason for this is because the first fragment
>While nature is largely forgotten too
can be read as an independent sentence and not just as a dependent sentence. Perhaps this is a clearer way of writing it?:
>While nature, which is largely forgotten too, thrives.

>>20952356
>>20952363
>>20952394
Don't listen to these retards they're making it even worse.

>>20952422
If only we could turn any work into Disco Elysium

>>20952276
>>20952281
The Duality of Man

God the publishing process is so annoying. Even after you get accepted for publication there's endless waiting and uncertainty.

>>20952538
>ABLUBLUBLU MY DREAMS ARE COMING TRUE POOR ME POOR POOR ME
this is what you sound like

>>20952538
Surprised you got accepted for publishing anywhere as a white male. What are you writing? A book on the trans African sex workers who are empowering trans women the world over by redefining breathing?

>>20952561
I'm saying that the reality of getting something published isn't all that glamorous or cool. Also it's not really a dream.

>>20952623
Just some short stories.

Almost there.. just a little more work.. more elbow grease..

>Her puffy twin tails and the red ribbon on her chest bounced with each hurried step she made. Her skirt swayed as well, showing the clear skin of her legs accentuated by her white over-the-knee socks. She looked so small, so frail, so perfectly cute, that I still struggled with the idea of her fighting anything at all, let alone a monster several times her size.

I'm never going to make it, bros.
I'm trying to describe picrel from the perspective of someone in love: I want to accentuate cuteness, beauty, make it slightly erotic too. But I'm really having a hard time because I'm a fucking ESL who has literally never described clothes or bodies before.

You're all aspiring writers, right? How would you pull this off?
Also, which authors are good at this kind of thing?

>>20952215
Because that’s all subjective. F Gardner is the greatest success story from here by a large margin.

>>20952706
This guy paid for a massive 4chan ad campaign and his book is mid. Tao Lin used to post here and he's an actually known writer of influence.

>>20952060
>murders to their feeding foray
>hare joining his herd
Only cloven-hooved animals are in herds (except elephants). Your mind was on choosing the right word for a group of crows.. not sure what happened shortly thereafter though.

>>20952516
I just hate these posts. It's not actionable.
>it's shit
And how can I make it not shit? I don't even need much, just something with non buzz words so I can get an understanding, like "prose was so dry/boring, dialog is generic, and plot is cliche. " Something like htat.

>>20952706
Posting about yourself isn’t success, and considering how long you were running ads for there is no way in hell you’ve turned a profit

>>20952501
Is that fucking Cris? If it is I'm gonna stop my break and get back to writing out of hatred for that man

>>20952704
>>You're all aspiring writers, right? How would you pull this off?
Read what other authors said on similar subject matters and do studies. And then practice writing that description a lot for different anime girls.
The key to good prose is to get an idea of what makes it good description and then writing as much as you can.

>>20952029
>>IF YOU HAVE NOT PERFORMED A CURSORY PROOFREAD, DO NOT EXPECT TO BE TREATED KINDLY. EDIT YOUR WORK FOR SPELLING AND GRAMMAR BEFORE POSTING.
Here is a friendly reminder: I have no idea if this is only me because Google hates me, but Google Docs does not detect some spelling/grammer check
I have no idea if I fucked it or not, but make sure to read through it yourself and post your work on microsoft docs (you can use the online version if you're a linuxfag like me)

>>20952714
Yeah but Tao Lin has had books out for a long time. Call of the Crocodile is like 2 years old max.

>>20952029
I've come to find the ringing of tinnitus odly calming.

>>20952720
I'm used to rabbits (which are called herds) though I should've researched it deeper rather than substituting it. Thanks for the call out.

>>20952356
>>20952363
>>20952394
Will look into these. I just recently learned to stop using "I" so much. This is my first time writing for anything other than school so I really truly appreciate the feedback.

I identified a problem, I don't know how to make my main character talk.
I have a scene with a late mid game NPC that I really care about bevause the drawing I have for the guy is pretty fun even if the model would be hard to do justice to.

It's the confirmation that the setting is getting weird but I think the description
>If not for the blinking dots on his body, a two dimensional shape constantly readjusting. Tendrils extrude towards nearby ----------
Makes it sound stranger than what it is. Besides the player should be able to see him, right?

Ok, so this guy is important in the what he can give me as a reward and worldbuilding way.
You get to ask him about the many relevant factions on the game. He shares his thoughts and then some theories if you show him certain items. This way you know how to solve some of the hardest puzzles.
He's a historian. But again, I know that not all are correct here and ot doesn't matter.

Now, I know his voice when talking. I can make dialogue even if it's a first draft for this character.

But not so much with my main character, I know who they are but I don't know how to do it. It's not only their voice but some alternate ones in which the player can roleplay as X but mean, X but forceful, X but etc...

>>20952941
Look, I left my huge main idea as the backstory because it's easier to make full sci fi work than that.
The last main character was easier to write for, I had the entire prototypes for roleplaying down.

How do I get back in the mood to write my story after I've read something hard hitting? What's YOUR technique?

I just reread my dead story over and over, and some new paragraph pops up.

>>20952029
I expressly forbid you from using singular 'they'.

>>20952941
you can't impose your bullshit on your potential readers like you do to us. think about how to engage without raping the conversation space, for once.
and if you actually care to interact, try actually reading what's posted, and asking a few questions.

>>20953059
it's a neat observation but i don't think this applies to us.

>>20953178
What are you talking about?

>>20953197
that's a start.

Made a whole fucking shitty thread before realizing this probably does not deserve it's own, so I'm asking here.

Is it a bad idea to get into poetry for the sole purpose of writing poems for a waifu so I can cement her in my psych and increase my chances of lucid dreaming her?

Do you get turned off by too IRL-similar maps? I only later realized that this was basically europe, anatolia, the levant and egypt. I puzzled it together out of several randomly generated maps

>>20953234
i require more information

>>20952967
You mean harsh feedback or something else? I keep two documents, one has all the praise my writing has ever received, the other has snippets of prose I really like and words of encouragement from famous writers. I just re-read those. It's pathetic, but it works.

Here's a few snippets:

>A writer looking for subjects inquires not after what he loves best, but after what he alone loves at all.
>Write as if you were dying. At the same time, assume you write for an audience consisting solely of terminal patients. That is, after all, the case. What would you begin writing if you knew you would die soon? What could you say to a dying person that would not enrage by its triviality?
>Now that the incorruption of this most fragrant ambergris should be found in the heart of such decay; is this nothing?

>You have a great gift when it comes to storytelling. This was amazing. Thanks for writing.
>this makes my soul happy.
>Just caught up and I love this story. The characters are great, the descriptions are fantastic and I could scarcely stop reading. I had to make myself stop or I'd have turned through it all in one sitting. I very much look forward to more! I hope you're published in some fashion because my god dude, your writing is solid.

>>20952704
Why does your description even need to be that good? You're writing fucking anime fanfiction for Christ's sake. That level of description is more than sufficient for your intended audience. Focus on what your audience will actually give a shit about: situation, plot, genre conventions, and characters. I'd be more worried about your absolutely hackneyed (even by anime standards) meet-cute in the lunchroom than your peodphilic descriptions of your waifu's knee-socks. Stop being retarded.

>>20953212
Can you help me with some advice?
>>20953234
There are better ways to go about that but ok.
>>20953324
Can you help me too?

>>20953281
for some background...ok, so I already know this is the most autistic thing a person can do, but I just got into doki doki literature club because I heard it was a good psychological game and that it actually appeals to people who may not like anime. I hate anime. Now, while I did not find it spooky, I DID find it intensely depressing. It pissed me right off. Now, I also have had a vague interest in writing before, and I really liked some of the poems in the game, so I figured I should write some. In my post bullshitgame depression, I had a dream of a sweet robot waifu hugging me and I thought I could try to combine two goals of mine. Lucid dreaming and writing poetry. But I think the premise may be too autistic for me. I mean I wouldnt associate with someone if they told me they did this, fucking losers.

>>20953330
sure, im curious.

>>20953340
it's hard to say if the same parts of the brain firing up when writing would affect what you might dream. i haven't experienced this-- you'd be taking a huge leap in assuming it would help.
and, yea.. i wouldn't get hung up on anything (anywaifu) in particular though, not if i could help it.

>>20953384
Oh, I'm not posting anything else.
But how can I greatly improve in dialogue and descriptions?
I'm just completely locked down

>>20953384
I suppose it's a combination of wanting a muse and also wanting to lucid dream. I'm trying to combine goals.

Finally started a wordpress blog for putting up my short fiction. Here's the first one:
https://danfiction.com/the-librarian/

Is it better to switch to substack, will I get actual readers that way?

>>20953330
I already know your game avatarfaggot. The kind of help you need comes with a prescription.

>>20953401
You don't want this, you're going to get proper schizo shit.
>>20953409
Come on, not even going to give in a little?

>>20953340
If you read about the lives of the most famous people in the world, they were almost all categorically autistic losers or mentally ill in some way. And with writers it's just dialed up to 11. Blake was literally a schizo. James Joyce was an unrepentant pervert. Rousseau liked to get spanked. Melville was bipolar. I recently found out that the richest man in the world (depending on how you measure it) was scared of his mother his entire life. To quote Franz Kafka (yet another autist):
>Don't bend; don't water it down; don't try to make it logical; don't edit your own soul according to the fashion. Rather, follow your most intense obsessions mercilessly.

>>20953398
what are you trying to have your reader experience?

>>20952834
>Call of the Crocodile

F Gardner is a self admitted homosexual. Stop shilling him into a meme.

>>20953435
It's for a game so it really does vary. Immersed on the setting, fully immersed. That's what I'm looking for.

>>20953420
>>20953427
All my favorite famous people were inventors. schizos have a hard time operating in realspace, so maybe I'll try to write poems about machinery or something. I don't really want to be fractured husk of a human being. Art for arts sake is empty, after all.

>>20953443
Lies. And he’s been a meme for a long time.

>>20953457
Someone post the Faggot Gardner copypasta.

1.25k today
Twas a good day
Snausage rolls for din dins
May your stomach and page be filled in equal measure.

Do you think people would read a fantasy story that boils down to an extremely overblown fight over inheritance and property rights? I know these themes were very popular in the old Icelandic Sagas, but the year is no longer 1200 and I’m afraid no one will read it.

>Debating F Gardner’s sexuality

F Gardner being straight would be a twist too unbelievable for any of his own “novels.”

>>20953477
Pep[le will read a,kk linds of shit

>>20953448
my question was what you'll want to be asking yourself. if you have a goal, then you know where to start looking.
if you want your setting to have impact, then you'll need good worldbuilding, and your characters will have to be properly affected by it,

>>20953477
it'll come down to your story. think of all the boring topics made interesting with good writing.

>>20953497
This. There are videos of people unironically talking about Horror’s Call on youtube and shit. Never underestimate the appeal of pulp fiction to the masses.

>>20952029
miniMAG open submissions

themes for the next few weeks:
-Bleeding out
-Tyrants
-Absurdity
-Searching
-Lust/slime

>>20952060
I'd put it in

>>20953514
Horror’s Call is good if you like that kind of stuff though. F Gardner is like one of those old-timey horror writers but in the current year. He writes the type of books you’d see at an airport or on the shelves at the grocery store. Short and cheap thrills but fun.

>>20953521
Q: What is miniMAG?

A :a weekly magazine to read on the subway

Q: What does it publish?

A: poetry/ short fiction/ reviews/ articles/ art/ pretty much whatever

Q: How to can I get my stuff into miniMAG?

A: send submissions to minimagsubmissions@gmail.com

Q: Is there a submission deadline?

A: every week I’m making one of these- so no, just send me whatever whenever. On average it will show up in the zine 2-4 weeks later

Q: Where can I find old issues of miniMAG?

A: old issues are available @ minimag.space

>>20953038
this is better written than it should be

>>20953406
very cool. i'm finding direct publishing to be more fulfilling as well. if you want to simultaneously publish something in miniMAG, i'll throw up a link to your site on the back page. Maybe some randos in Shanghai will see it.

>>20953501
Define good worldbuilding. Planescape? DE? Soulsborne?
Boy do I have a setting, I do. But I am struggling in how to show it.
I frankly would like to do what that medieval movie did, handle even the most batshit insane or important aspect of "lore" so casually and in an obscured way. Offhanded even.

I talked about this before here. Was told not to even try to be idiosyncratic with it.

>>20952941
>I identified a problem
Oh no the spambot has become aware of itself

>>20952704
See the girl. She is pale and petite. She wears a puffed and frilly shirt. The barley shirt accentuated with white and red delineated her lotus breast and juvenile form. Her white thighs exist between white socks and a plaid skirt suspended by the breeze under the blinding white meridian. She waves at you with croquette palms, and a smile hangs under her round magenta eyes like clouds in winter’s dusk. Her pink hair wraps as twins, and dancing in a rhythm belongs solely to them and their god. She reaches into her navy bag and pulls out a gun and shoots the cat, and it disappears, and she shoots the old woman, and her body turns to gore, and she skins her scalp and presents her trophy to the heavens, and blood drips on the hungry while dirt cake, and she rides the black mare into the exploding horizon.

>>20953553
i mean that your characters will need a reason to interact with their world, if the setting is supposed to be significant. rather than just a cliche'd backdrop like some VNs.
VN and games you reference are VERY different. we're talking player agency, immersion, assets/presentation, music, etc. these all affect the experience in a way VN can't. we're also talking scriptwriting, among other skills.
i'm even thinking you're underestimating the assets required to make your VN setting interesting.. considering how limited most indie VN are.

>>20953670
I'm not making a VN, I'm making a third person game.
>assets
Thankfully I like fallout myself, took a page from that.

>>20953706
and, you understand that making a 3rd person video game is nearly impossible, yes? even if you were a programmer+artist hybrid with a decade+ of experience, that this would be out of scope. and that if you don't have experience making games, that you shouldn't even be thinking about writing? yes?

>>20953726
Ignore him. He’s an attention whore, who’s here 24/7, and makes the same complaints every day.

>>20953726
Yes, I do.
Have you seen the world right now? It really doesn't matter. It's a distraction. I'm merely waiting for my suicide.

I've always known and my novel outline had blackouts as one of the first stages.
Europe soon will have no internet, next year...
Society will collapse all over the world, next year...
Soon enough we will all be dead

Should I KDP my fantasy novel? Having your book in the biggest bookstore in the world seems like some positives and negatives.

My bestfriend is an editor at one of the big 5, and I don't write. Just wanted to share.

>>20953836
Cool bro.

This retard almost makes me wish for Boswell to return.

I wrote this short poem and would appreciate any feedback.

Scarce are days the curtains open,
like petals — closed for winter
The room stays safe by gold beholden:
nourish'd, bathed in splendour

When spring-light folds between my head,
cast shadows fall and seize my bed,
I'll hand — by sprawling fixtures

I wrote this short poem and would appreciate any feedback.

Scarce are days the curtains open,
like petals — closed for winter
The room stays safe by gold beholden:
nourish'd, bathed in splendour

When spring-light folds between my head,
cast shadows fall and seize my bed,
I'll hang — by sprawling fixtures

Decided to take up writing a month +1 day ago, and i’m enjoying freestyling, learning about writing, and reading with this mindset..
i love coming up with ‘concepts’, but im not excited about coming up with a story.. at all.
is anyone else like this? am i just an editor at heart? how long do you spend mulling over ideas before you attempt writing a story?
when did you attempt writing your first book?
what about a serial/web novel? any recommendations i could use to learn from?

I'm kind of taking a break from planning my next thing and finishing my current thing by engaging in an exercise that... is fun but god knows whether I'll follow through fully on it.

Back in the 70s and 80s, Doctor Who serials were novelised into junior novels by Target. Each was about 20-40k words long, not terribly much. I've recently seen people making covers for fake stories that never existed, up to writing the full books, and it's kind of inspired me to work on something I've been toying with for a long time (but had stopped writing fanfic years ago, sooo... just kept putting the idea to one side) - I'm plotting the novels of a full regeneration of a new Doctor.

I have the overall plotline for the regeneration worked out - I know what happens for each of the planned series, and how it wraps up, and the companions (for the first series at least) - I'm now trying to put down some individual stories for season 1 so I can start writing.

This is the hard part :P

>>20953541
Thanks! I was wondering if I should be more detailed of her smacking the head of the guy with the rock.

>>20953836
Bonkers!

>>20952669
lmao

My dad works at Harry Potter.

>>20952647
>Just some short stories
Collections are the hardest to get published. Congrats on that.

Reposting because I got no responses last thread.

The junk yard hound came trotting over to Mike, crooked tail wagging. The big, brown beast plopped his ass down in front of him, sweeping the dirt and panting. Mike pocketed his notebook and bent down to rub the dog’s head, his hands getting slimed up with hose-water drool. The dog didn’t mind his head being used as a towel. The water probably felt good on him, given the August heat. The stacks of recovered cars had a way of reflecting heat such that even weeds struggled to sprout.

“How are you doing, Booey? Any new cars here? Nice and smelly ones, most likely.”

Booey nuzzled his head back and licked the sweat off Mike’s forearms. Then he whimpered and scooted closer.

“What’s up with that?”

The door to the office swung open, and Joe Forrest squeezed out, managing to not rip one of his shirt buttons on the frame. “Mike! I thought that was you. Just the man I need. Booey, stop being a baby. You’re supposed to be protecting this place.”

“Good morning, Mr. Forrest. I was hoping you had gotten a mid-size in recently. The stator in my torque converter has blown out and I need to get my hands on a replacement. That thing’s a bit outside my--”

Mr. Forrest shook his head and whipped out a handkerchief from his pocket. “Sorry, Mike, but you know I’d have called you if an ICE had shown up. All I get are electric husks.”
[...]

Is your day job conducive to being a writer? I work as a substitute teacher, and it's probably one of the better gigs for writers. I get large chunks of the day where I can just sit down at a desk and I have nothing else to do but to jot down passages and ideas for my work. I can also read during recess and lunch if I don't have duty.

How do you make sure your writing is inclusive?

>>20954515
Description is pretty good. But, I feel there's very little here to make me want to read any further. If this is the beginning of the story, I think you're better off setting up some stakes or establishing a break from routine. Even just a single line on why Mike needs his car fixed (and why its urgent) is enough. Or something indicating that this is an unusual circumstance in some way, or runs counter to the main characters expectations. The way you've written it seems like its all business as usual, which is fine, but not something I find particularly engaging at the beginning of a story.

I was thinking of writing this story? About a guy who gets hit by a bus? And he ends up in an afterlife that mimics a video game he played and he gets to meet a bunch of hot women?

>>20954585
Wow, no one's ever done that before.

What if you gave him a cool black sword and he was naturally gifted at wielding two swords?

>>20954570
By using they instead of he or she, of course.

>>20952029
Does this make any sense?

>>20954587
That sounds pretty cool. You’re okay with me using it?

Are there any drugs or other substances that help with writing? Maybe natural means like meditation or masturbation before you sit down to right?

Also what is the best kind of keyboard for typing I know everyone says mechanical is great so does that improve creativity and style but if you write longhand do ballpoint pens stifle your style?

>>20954616
Coffee. Day-dreaming. Taking a walk. Reading (notes, last day's work, other books etc.). Naps.

>>20954572
It's for a short story that I thought had to target 5k, but I just got told to double it to 10k, so I suppose the best thing to do would be to back the start up about two paragraphs and lead with the parking lot, wherein he'll see a Tesla with New York plates on it, stinking like salt.

Then go into the dog, the worker coming out, and continue from there because the A plot is him getting hired by the gal from new york to kill a monster.

>>20952778
Witnessed.
I actually did read a couple of light novels, but they never go too in-depth with the descriptions because there's drawings for that. I wanted to get into a more "emotional" level of description but also pandering... which is fucking stupid. I need to commit to one thing at a time.

>>20953324
I had a predicament there.
I wanted to flesh things out a bit more, give some more personality to the self-insert character, come up with a more organic scenario for the meet cute, but I felt it wouldn't be enough to catch the attention of the intended audience. In a way, I felt pressured to deliver what I promised as fast as possible.
On that note, I still feel pressured to "deliver", and now that I'm actually trying to develop a plot beyond masturbatory romance fantasies I fear my story won't satisfy anyone because it's neither here nor there.

>>20953614
God I wish that were me

>>20954644
Yeah, that actually sounds a lot better. Again, as long as you show that something is unusual or out of place or at stake, you've hooked me (and probably other readers as well).

>>20954557
brando sando took a job as a night manager of a hotel on the graveyard shift.
plenty of time to write and think
the worse day job for a writer is programming because programming is a lot like writing and you'll be drained at the end of the work day

>>20954616
Weed gets the noggin' joggin'.
>masturbation
Wrong. Not masturbating is the key: sexual frustration has birthed a lot of good shit.

>>20954620
keyboard doesn't matter
what matters the most is writing

>>20953427
>blah blah blah reducing people to biographical iota
No one in /wg/ writes, so why would I expect them to read either?

>>20952029
someone can critique?
>My sense of how he received this suffered for a minute from something that I can describe only as a fierce split of my attention—a stroke that at first, as I sprang straight up, reduced me to the mere blind movement of getting hold of him, drawing him close, and, while I just fell for support against the nearest piece of furniture, instinctively keeping him with his back to the window. The appearance was full upon us that I had already had to deal with here: Peter Quint had come into view like a sentinel before a prison. The next thing I saw was that, from outside, he had reached the window, and then I knew that, close to the glass and glaring in through it, he offered once more to the room his white face of damnation. It represents but grossly what took place within me at the sight to say that on the second my decision was made; yet I believe that no woman so overwhelmed ever in so short a time recovered her grasp of the act. It came to me in the very horror of the immediate presence that the act would be, seeing and facing what I saw and faced, to keep the boy himself unaware. The inspiration—I can call it by no other name—was that I felt how voluntarily, how transcendently, I might. It was like fighting with a demon for a human soul, and when I had fairly so appraised it I saw how the human soul—held out, in the tremor of my hands, at arm’s length—had a perfect dew of sweat on a lovely childish forehead. The face that was close to mine was as white as the face against the glass, and out of it presently came a sound, not low nor weak, but as if from much further away, that I drank like a waft of fragrance.

>>20954654
Listen here nigger, your intended audience knows the conventions of the genre but they still want to be surprised. You have to do the same but different. You can do the lunchroom meet-cute but you must play with the expectations the audience is going to have going in. You have to give the audience what they want, not what they expect. You have to come up with something they couldn't come up with given ten seconds of concentrated effort. Niggers tongue my anus was unironically the better version and you should've doubled down on it. I guarantee not everyone would've liked but, but everyone would've remembered it. I do. It still makes me smile.

>>20954670
I get the impression most of you freaks can barely hold a job or converse with someone for more than a minute.

>>20954680
Got two jobs and legit worked 8 hours yesterday and going to work another 8 hours today. Suck on my hairy bent cock, you fucking projecting little twink.

>>20954557
I'm an engineer. It affords me to work my left brain so at night I can relax with my right brain, which I often do. It helps me relax and keeps me off the senseless YouTube video/4chan browse grind

>>20954679

Does scrivener help with writing?

>>20954685
Anon not only did he say most, so that anecdote is irrelevant, but you're working 2 jobs: that is kinda pathetic since you spend approximately all your day wageslaving and probably have shitty sleep

>>20953330
Wasting my short life
I happened upon him, Cris.
Kill yourself faggot

>>20954557
While I'm programming
I'm afforded some free time
So I just shitpost

>>20954770
At least he proved he proved he’s not capable of even basic conversation, as that anon said. I wonder what shitty writing he smashes out on his keyboard. I bet it’s not even comprehensible.

>>20954557
It can be sometimes when my projects are on autopilot and I dont have many meetings. Sometimes its very hands on.
I even managed to write 2000 words yesterday at work. Plus I always have time to read for a few hours at work. Homeowner responsibilities cause some unwanted disruptions like pests, plumbing, home improvement.

>>20954675
No idea what is going on or what you are trying to say here anon. Maybe the context and who is the narrator? Is it normal for him to speak in such a convoluted manner?

>>20954616
Most writers historically took some kind of stimulant eg some type of amphétamine. You have to decide for yourself if it’s worth it

>>20954515
You should not give the dog any attention or dialogue. It sounds ridiculous.

>>20954819
tons of authors were alcoholics

>>20954595
Is this serious?

I'm basing my next story on "Disco Elysium."
It's about a prostitute who blacked out and passed out on the floor with her panties around her ankles. She has amnesia and must piece her life together to solve the mystery. She gives head to get information, but she's old so nobody wants her.
It's sort of a tragedy.
I'm hoping that someone makes it into a game.

>>20954896
That... actually sounds like it might be good. Especially the old prostitute angle. Combine with some commentary on the modern onlyfans/tinder/pornography trend and you might have a bestseller.

>>20954762
Sure, but if you can't write a story on Google docs, you won't be able to write one on schviner

>>20954616
Pure hard work.

>>20954762
the only thing i don't like about scrivener is that if your computer dies, you have to reinstall it
google docs is always there
word is okay because it has a google docs like interface in the online office 365 and word has a ton of helpful features like the best grammar checker and the best document organizer
if i was going to install something, it would be word.
personally, google docs is doing everything i need right now

I've recently lost my passion
I used to autistically read all sorts of things, and take notes, and write all the time. but these days its so hard. it's been a month and I've barely put down a word
what the fuck do I do. do I just accept being loveless and writing mediocre stories and uninteresting prose? can I trust that this is just a dry spell and the magic will come back?

>>20955093
Post your work.

>>20955100
sure but in exchange you have to actually put in the slightest bit of effort to get me out of my slump

>>20955093
write at least a sentence per day
eventually you'll overcome whatever you're going through and you'll write more

>>20955108
Why do I keep thinking this is huckleberry Finn?

>>20953306
>You mean harsh feedback or something else?
Harsh feedback is one. Another is reading anything provocative.

>>20955162
thanks bro I'll try. maybe I'll do some cookie cutter narratives just so that I can get words down. it's hard to plot stories right now, feels like whatever I touch will be empty. might as well come to terms with that and lean into it
>>20955198
iconic dumbass kid
>>20955100
>pyw
>doesn't follow up
bro...

>>20952029
How complicated is too complicated for a story?
Specifically, for a hard sci-fi thriller with spies and corrupt politicians.
I'm writing the outline of a story that I think is terribly cool but I'm wondering whether this amount of characters, conflicting interests between government agencies, foreign politicians and freelancers... is exaggerated.
Because I want everything to be consistent I'm also writing character bios for every characters, more detailed for the more important characters, including family history and whatnot, though I'm starting to wonder what level of detail is "just right" and what's considered exaggerated and dispersive.

>>20955216
Sorry bro, I never intended to give any feedback whatsoever. I just wanted you to share your stuff with us.

>>20955108
This is pretty good desu. The premise is interesting and novel. The prose has a decent flow it. I think the voice needs to be tightened a bit though. And the story doesn't really go anywhere. The adult intervention feels like you couldn't think of a good continuation and just copped out.

But there's a lot to mine here. A lot of ways you could explore this. The ritual might go too far, someone could get hurt. Or it could transform into something else: punishment or sport or religion. Or maybe the adults do intervene but it's the opposite, the fathers want to see whose kid is toughest and they start taking bets, an ironic reversal of the "my dad can beat up your dad" playground jibe, and now the father's love is on the line, and the kid whose father is a cop has to eventually step in as the lawman, the voice of reason. So there's irony there too: adults are as stupid and petty as kids. Or if you don't like that, maybe someone betrays the ritual somehow, someone cheats, or it goes viral, or someone brings in their annoying little kid sister etc.

You might just need to read something new to kick yourself out of the rut. Or something old that you really enjoyed.

>>20955222
what i'm working on now is a little complicated
for my first book, i should've started out with something simple, like two characters, modern, everyday world, simple character arcs, villain and hero. a simpler book would've given me the experience i needed to do more complicated stuff
instead, i've got 4 pov characters, complex arcs, etc

>>20952060
Reads easy. Sensory detail is on point tooo

>>20955287
You could always put your current project on hold for a bit while you garner further experience. Your first real project should never be your 'Magnum Opus' and trying to make it so will only leave you discouraged.

>>20952276
>>20952281
>>20952324
Nta, but this faggotry is why I never come to this shitty general

I've never really written much of anything before. But here is something i started for fun

Do I have what it takes, bros?

>>20955298
And yet, here you are. Maybe the real faggot was you all along.

>>20955222
>How complicated is too complicated for a story?
When you can no longer tell the story in a way the reader can understand, and leave contradictions and unresolved plot threads, then it's too complicated.

>>20952276
>>20952281
>>20952324
Nta, but this chaddery is why I always come to this opulent general

>>20955301
Have you ever considered writing poetry or poetic novels?

>>20955301
better than most beginners but only by a sliver
you're applying the thought patterns of a movie/tv watcher to your writing. it's clear as day
everyone has what it takes to write. the question is do you have the discipline. what you're showing is what you'd expect, the shitty first step of a beginer. keep at it and you'll do fine

>>20955301
Are you ESL? Let me ask you this, when you read "The old hag winces with a spry smirk as she rotates the dial back on her lantern" do you know it's bad and just choose to ignore it or can you genuinely not tell? And if you know it's bad, do you also know why?

>>20955331
NTA but could you expand on what makes you feel as if they are "applying the thought patterns of a movie/tv watcher"? I can feel that something is off, but cannot confidently pick out why or what is causing the feeling.

>>20955335
nope

>>20955335
Nta, why is it bad?
Is it because it's too wordy?

>>20955353
I think I could be moving to quickly, and maybe i'm not descriptive enough?

>>20952276
>>20952281
>>20952324
Nta but this has no impact on why I occasionally come to this thread

>>20955365
i think its because theres like three actions in one sentence and its all happening at the same time so its confusing. so yeah it's wordy.

Looks like /wg/ should be renamed into the F. Gardner and Disco Elysium/Rhea Seehorn Schizo blog.

>>20955353
it's kind of hard to describe but if you read enough beginner stories you'll notice that same weird feeling. the way that the prose is dedicated to scene direction. he wants to have fancy language but the word choice doesn't serve a purpose. the prose and events are working together towards anything
it reads kind of like a script
>Now Roeby can feel the blood moving into his legs
almost every paragraph starts with someone doing something, like scene cuts in a show. not that that's strictly wrong or if you do that it'll always feel like a beginners script-like writing, but it is part of the problem here

How do I improve my writing skills? I won't be satisfied until I can produce something complicated and verbose enough to make Cicero blush

>>20955319
Ive never really considered anything.
I have English majors in my family, but im a community college stoopy with a throwaway AS degree. Just thought I'd test something here.

>>20955379
Fuck off spamfag.

self published fantasy that's doing well
seems like all the successful self published stuff is fantasy

>>20955108
Does pepper spray even burn skin? I thought you had to breathe it or get in your face.

When I was a kid, I'd pepper spray the door handles to cars. Not to burn their fingers, but for when they eventually touched their face.

>>20955222
It has to focus on a character that the readers empathize with. No one wants to follow a tangled plot about people they don't care about.

>>20955378
I kinda thought that was 2 actions, but ok.

>>20955594
Capsaicin slowly penetrates skin. If you cut up say 100 jalapeño peppers with bare hands, you may not notice anything for hours but all the capsaicin your skin absorbs before you wash it off will hit your nerves all at once and burn for hours. I had seen this happen to someone and they didnt fall asleep until 3AM. Capsaicin is not water soluble, needs some organic solvent like vegetable oil or rubbing alcohol for best results washing off, milk is also okay.

>words dont roll over each month on sudowrite
It's over

>>20954557
You want something that requires no brainpower.
I wrote my first book (pic related) when i was working at a roadhouse on the Nullarbor. My job was basically just serving customers who came in to get fuel. Doesn't take much brainpower and there was a fair bit of raw material walking in every day.

>>20953234
You already imagine her, imagination is higher than lucid dreaming, to actively imagine her into your life is best.

To answer your question though, write as much poetry as you'd like if that brings you great happiness, to write of your special one.

>>20953234
Why poetry? Why not just a regular narrative?
Hell, why write? Why not draw instead?

>>20954846
I never understood this, booze kills my ability to write. Coffee or a redbull can help though.

>>20955301
Short term - Learn how to format dialogue and thoughts, how to use dashes and em dashes. Overall not bad, has a fun tone but need to read up some on writing craft.

>>20955610
Not him but wincing, smirming, and rotating are all verbs. Yes you weaseled it with a "wince with a smirk" but that doesn't really make sense, and describes 2 distinct things. Just a smirk would suffice there

Thoughts on this poem I wrote at work? I was going for a "fuck environmentalism" feel.

I am a bastard
and the world is my whore
From her, I will take what I want
To her, I will do what I want

Her bounty, I will plunder
Her children, kill and consume

All. Until all is gone
For it is all mine to take

I shall slash and I shall burn
I shall take and I shall rape

Piss and poison
Torture and torment

I shall take her throat in my hands
And choke the very life out of her

When all is said and done,
When my ribs are exposed
My eyes, sunken and bloodshot
My fingers, gnawed to the bone

I will stand few
Few and fewer still
But I will stand tall
And will stand proud

For I have lived my life the way I wanted
The way I was always meant to live it

>>20955994
These better be Nigerian voice lines

>>20955994
this is so edgy it's difficult to read, it's ridiculously over the top, delusions-of-grandeur laughable

>>20955994
it made me chuckle

>male protagonist is suspicious of female co-protagonist so he confronts her
>she recounts the sob story of how she found herself in that situation and how she basically had no choice but to lie, it was a white lie anyway
>protagonist is still a tad bit suspicious but mostly satisfied
>turns out most of it was made up and co-protagonist tries to kill protagonist twice shortly after that because that's what she's been ordered to do
>in the end protagonist manages to get his revenge by getting co-protagonist fired
>that way she doesn't have to kill him anymore and they can go back to working together happily ever after
Does this sound too convoluted?
Too tragic?

>>20955994
Is this Tyrone Lannister?

>>20956062
It sounds unsatisfying. Readers will hate it.

>>20953234
why not?
every reason to be creative is retarded, the only thing that matters is whether or not it motivates productivity

>>20955651
wtf is this
is this like a writing partner for people who don't have friends?

i've published my short stories and doggerels in self made zines.
does that make me a writer?

>>20956188
if you write you're a writer
if you're in print you're an author
you've officially made it. hows it feel big shot

>>20956227
thank you
you always believed in me and i thank you for that!

>>20956162
Good.

If my city has a made up name, can I give its citizens whichever demonym I think it's best? Or should I follow a linguistic rule?

learned a new word today
"demonym"

definition of an author
"a writer of a book, article, or report."
i think we all fit within that definition

leaned a new word today
"author"

gunna go get a bottle of red wine and write my new novel see yall in a few hours

>>20952029
We're almost there.. Just needs more work..
More effort.. More time..

Almost..

>>20954570
I intend for my writing to be as off-putting and exclusive as possible.

>>20957018
Based desu. Everyone who tells you otherwise is just wishing for Oprah's book club.

A man that's constantly grabbing to fear can't find joy, and a man that's chronically addicted to pleasure can't love; a woman that can't let go can't find joy, and a woman that's perpetually addicted to power can't love.

>>20954654
>I actually did read a couple of light novels
In Japanese, right? Light novel translations are crappy most of the time, with very few exceptions such as Skythewood's translation of Overlord.
>which is fucking stupid
I do not think so. It is fine.

>>20954616
A certain professional writer who shall remain unnamed smokes weed before editing, says it's the closest he can get to reading his work through the eyes of someone else.

>>20954006
Clarity of thought is important when writing, so the reader knows what the hell you are saying.
>Scarce are days the curtains open
I understand you omitted any relative pronoun to preserve the trochaic trimeter, but I got confused first thing reading the poem: the sentence sounded a bit nonsensical to me.
>The room stays safe by gold beholden: / nourish'd, bathed in splendour
I liked the imagery of these two verses. The diction is choice: neither affected, nor too commonplace.
No need to omit the "e", since it is not normally pronounced "nourishèd".
>cast shadows fall and seize my bed, / I'll hang — by sprawling fixtures
I did not understand. Can you explain what this means? I guess "sprawling fixtures" refers to the curtains, but what does the other verse mean?

I would not say the alliteration is euphonic, but it is not cacophonic at the very least. The mood and tone are conveyed fine. No much else I can say, methinks.

>>20957057
>In Japanese
lol, you think I'm some sort of fucking weeaboo or something?

I'm getting through the core 2k anki deck and the first few lessons of tae kim. I don't feel ready.

>>20957209
Then do not read light novels for reference: reading crap is worse than not reading.
>I don't feel ready.
Do not worry: they are called "light" precisely because they are quite readable compared to classic Japanese literature. You should be able to read them once you are N3 (where I started reading).
And although the writing is absolutely trashy when translated, in the original Japanese they are quite fine and even genial ("Overlord" by Maruyama Kugane is a masterpiece, highly recommended).

>>20957057
and overlord is fucking terrible, regardless of translation. LN is carelessly churned out for dopamine addicted nerds. to think we can't appreciate it without the proper translation? lol.

>>20957286
>overlord is fucking terrible
Trash taste and repulsion is what you are. Disgusting.
>LN is carelessly churned out for dopamine addicted nerds
With many LN, that is the case, but not Overlord (it seems Maruyama got pressured into releasing volumes 15 and 16 early, though).

>>20957315
>With many LN, that is the case, but not Overlord (it seems Maruyama got pressured into releasing volumes 15 and 16 early, though).
i'm not doubting their skill as storytellers, or writers of LN, but LN is what it is-- serial content with little editing and revision. they simply don't have enough time to avoid all the mistakes, plotholes, pacing issues, etc.
overlord is fun, but it has all of these issues. it was still fun, but yea. of course, i didn't read it all.

>>20957262
overlord is fine at best
masterpiece is insane

>>20957355
Silence, troll.
>>20957356
I mean masterpiece as a light novel, not as world literature. Overlord is one of the best light novels there are.

>>20957372
Yeah, you could say it's the "best from the worst".

>>20957409
Look at this backhanded compliment. The cowardice!

When a head and a book collide and there is a hollow sound, is it always the book?
—Georg Christoph Lichtenberg, Aphorism D 396.

You guys should form a 4chan group and write a romance. It would be popular if you can follow the plot beats and tropes, but also subtly off that something is very wrong with whoever wrote this.

>>20957450
There would be nothing subtle about it.

>>20957455
Sure it would be subtle. Readers would wonder why the guy is cheating on the main girl and why her name is stacy and why she's such a slut. Maybe it would end up as a happily ever after, but it's a harem. But other than that, it would be great!

>>20952029
ARGUMENTS IN FAVOR OF 3RD PERSON NARRATOR FOLLOWING A GROUP OF PEOPLE INSTEAD OF ONE OF THE GROUP DOING A 1ST PERSON NARRATION??
good examples for 3rd person are welcome, preferably pre-1950 and shorter than my little finger

>>20957477
>arguments in favor
Canterbury Tales. QED.

>>20957497
that's a good argument for
>isn't the best form of narration when one person tells a group of other persons a story
but not an answer for my question :(

GETH. SNIPER. PLATFORM. AUTOBIOGRAPHIES.

>>20957477
You need to decide between an omniscient narrator or a limited one otherwise your readers will be confused by which characters heads the narrator can actually jump into.
If you're going limited you should only change the viewpoint narrator when you change chapters, with omniscient you can jump into any characters head and get their thoughts on situations at any point in your narrative.

>>20957528
I basically like the kind of 3rd person narrator that just observes and doesn't jump in anybody's head
but a 1st person narrator that spits from time to time his vitriolic or genocidal remarks is also very tempting, as otherwise you would either have to have a socratic debate for each remark or have other characters ignore him

omniscient is really rare. mostly books from before the 50s

>>20956876
update

I wrote about 1500 words of pure shit.
the 2 glasses of red did nothing to help

>>20957596
Post results.

>>20957590

>>20957617
>>20957590
>>20957528
https://www.online-literature.com/james_joyce/ulysses/18/
read this and then tell me that omniscience (or women) is not overrated

>whatll I wear shall I wear a white rose or those fairy cakes in Liptons I love the smell of a rich big shop at 71/2d a lb or the other ones with the cherries in them and the pinky sugar lid a couple of lbs of course a nice plant for the middle of the table Id get that cheaper in wait wheres this I saw them not long ago I love flowers Id love to have the whole place swimming in roses God of heaven theres nothing like nature the wild mountains then the sea and the waves rushing then the beautiful country with fields of oats and wheat and all kinds of things and all the fine cattle going about that would do your heart good to see rivers and lakes and flowers all sorts of shapes and smells and colours springing up even out of the ditches primroses and violets nature it is as for them saying theres no God I wouldnt give a snap of my two fingers for all their learning why dont they go and create something I often asked him atheists or whatever they call themselves go and wash the cobbles off themselves first then they go howling for the priest and they dying and why why because theyre afraid of hell on account of their bad conscience ah yes I know them well who was the first person in the universe before there was anybody that made it all who ah that they dont know neither do I so there you are they might as well try to stop the sun from rising tomorrow the sun shines for you he said the day we were lying among the rhododendrons on Howth head in the grey tweed suit and his straw hat the day I got him to propose to me yes first I gave him the bit of seedcake out of my mouth and it was leapyear like now yes 16 years ago my God after that long kiss I near lost my breath yes
hammerin the point home

>>20957701
is this an act of rhetoric in convincing the reader to stop reading because it's really good at that

>>20957606
Here is the first bit of a chapter I wrote. I know its shit, I didn't rework it or anything
«Move! quick, bring the tools up» Charles Martin yelled as he dictated to the crew of men he was commanding
«We only have 2 hours to crack this safe, pack up, and get out» he said, as if it was some revelation the others didn’t already know
Paul and Bernard hurried through the small corridor that led to the workshop and then to the safe of the downtown jewelry store.
They would have had 4 hours had things went to plan, but Charles, the so-called master mind of the plan had shown up late. «Only by 45 minutes» minimized Charles
But in that short 45 minutes the trio had missed the window to bypass the security guard as he made his rounds and for his usual coffee run.
It was supposed to be an easy job. A big prize for little risk. Childs play for any thief or safecracker worth a damn. A shipment of Diamonds, worth $75,000 on the street was being held for a week in Montreal, the stones that weren't sold would head to New York. A minor shipment for the majority of packages that made their way from Antwerp to Paris to Montreal and eventually New York, and given the relatively low value of stones, the downtown bijouterie had not taken any extra precautions.
Charles, Paul and Bernard had only known each other for 4 weeks, and they have spent the last 4 days studying carefully the movements and schedules of every employee that went in and out of the store. They knew it was owned by a Mr. George Riley, who split his time between Toronto, Montreal and New York. And they knew that the security guard would take a walk to buy a coffee from the vendor on all night pizza shop every 2-3 hours and they could disable the alarm from the outside, and that would give them a window of 10 minutes to get into the shop. From there, as long as they didn’t make too much noise, they could crack the safe, a simple 1960 Brevete.
But things weren't going to plan, and why was Charles yelling? It was because of him the crew had missed their first entrance opportunity, and it was his fault they had to wait another 2 hours before the skinny and overworked security guard would go for another coffee. They were lucky it wasn't longer. And was he now going to draw attention to them by yelling? What if the security guard was already outside the door, he would surely come to investigate, or call for help.

>>20957721
I havent even read it back, I am trying to do 2000 words a day and when it is finsihed I will start rewriting. dont judge me

>>20957712
anon the act of rhetoric in convincing the reader to stop reading was the title
what I quoted was from the last chapter

>>20956162
Why does it sound unsatisfying to you?
What would you think would be satisfying instead?

>>20957777
>unsatisfying
cuck-a-palooza
>satisfying instead
hunts & wives

>3RD PERSON NARRATOR FOLLOWING A GROUP OF PEOPLE
Stephen King's the Stand

https://pastebin.com/N60g6n7F
Chapter 33 revised
Still no Klingon dictionary so I know
most of you idiots won’t be into it.

>>20957793
>the stand
>when stephen king got into cocaine
anon i don't have the cocaine budget of mr. king

>>20957692
You're retarded. Read Tolstoy.

>>20957777
Most stories have tension building to a climax. The protagonists wants something. Bullshit stops him from getting it. He gets it in the end.

What does your protagonist want? Revenge or sex? He seems passive. If a woman betrays him, the reader will want him to seek revenge, and getting someone fired doesn't match attempted murder. Then at the end, things just go back to normal. There isn't any pay off.

Your description is incredibly vague, so I might be missing something.

>>20957831
in his last days Tolstoy wanted to get as far as possible from his wife, even taking profit of trains to execute this endeavor... he was sick and dying and still his main priority was to get as far as possible, geometrically, from his wife... and you want me to what, take Tolstoy's regretted word over the word of a telepath who sacrificed himself for the sake of mankind? fuck off right now and never visit 4chon again

>>20957477
>>20957793
What about a 3rd person narrator following a single person that's part of a group?

>>20957868
>and you want me to what, take Tolstoy's regretted word over the word of a telepath who sacrificed himself for the sake of mankind? fuck off right now and never visit 4chon again
Nigger what retarded psychobabble are you blathering about? You retarded mouthbreaking faggot. My post was about omniscient narrators and how you should read perhaps the greatest omniscient narrative writer of all time, Leo Tolstoy.

>>20957875
I AM (joking) the person originally posing the question.
>3rd person narrator following a single person that's part of a group
that's the idea, a few pages with the single person 50 or 60 pages with a group of 3 more people, of which one is missing at most (to have sex, usually)
but I feel the greed to have the possibility to insert some of that (followed) character's thoughts into to description of scenes...

>>20957893
nigger fuck off and don't return until you read Joyce's oeuvre
why the fuck you think people read it, because he was a good writer?
no, because Hitler wasn't born yet to remind people a world existed before the industrial mass-sodomy catalyzed by top-faggot Napoleon

>>20957049
Addiction to pleasure is painful, the heavenly highs are never worth the hellish lows.

Addiction to power is weak, the joyous relief is never worth the crushing responsibility.

I'm tryna make covers for KDP, what would make you guys judge a book by its cover and read it instantly for fantasy?

>>20957866
I see, thank you for expanding on that.

>>20957721
starts off decent,
>A big prize for little risk. Childs play for any thief or safecracker worth a damn.
much after this is sort of infodump. in fact the sentence after, i question why you were telling me this.
if you preface this info with a reason we must know this now, then i will be happier to read, but it's not natural as is

>>20957049
Addiction to pleasure is painful, the heavenly highs are never worth the hellish lows.

Addiction to power is weak, the sweet moments of relief are never worth the soul-crushing responsibilities

>>20957909
What the hell do Hitler and Napoleon have to do with omniscient narrative writing. Joyce is a phenomenal omniscient writer and so is Tolstoy. If you're filtered >>20957712 >>20957731 by fucking Penelope of all chapters you need to shoot yourself immediately.

>>20953614
I can taste the corn.

"You just wait, make the call. I'm letting you know" he added "I'm looking forward. Minutes. You'll be back"

The man doesn't reply. He focused on the strange caricature before him; the worn-down uniform that probably came from another reserve now lying on the street. The emblems are completely wrong. To the point of deliberate statement, almost. The messy hair and a stare not unlike a starved animal. As if he was taking a mental picture, taking it all in, already making up his mind.

"And what about him?"
"Nothing else, give him some money, send him on his way. That'll be the end of it"
"How much?"
"Enough for two days or three." from the radio, "You said he looked like shit? One"
"I say, we put him down," says one of the figures listening in beside him.
"No" the operator chuckles "If you turn the place over and nothing, well, that will also be the end of it"
"That's something-Anything else?"

He's been waiting like this now, the lone subject on the lower floors of the station. The theoretical lone subject of course, for the cell on the far left end on what might be the third row from the one he's now sitting in, is the only concealed.
At an earlier date, he might have proclaimed that his innate circadian mastery made him impervious to moments like this. But he can't help but wonder. Something will happen, either way, the wait can only be a blessing. And so he does.

He wondered about his jailers, his fellow compatriots; this sad lot didn't really came across as patriotic. Comrades, brothers in arms, mercenaries, men of chance and excitement. But eventually settled on a sound conclusion, volunteers. Worse or better-God knew.

Yes, sir-No, sir types, who no doubt were probably drawing straws on who got the money shot; perhaps even killing him if they were so inclined. The audacity.

Short book anon here. How is your guys writing coming?

>>20958053
Good just editing while working on covers for my books to KDP soon.

>>20958053
I fell asleep after promising I'll write a page to my story. Now my story will never finish.

You know what? People always say that giant robots aren't realistic or practical. While that first one is 99.9% true, don't yammer on about that practicality thing. Look, if a giant monster attacks, what do you do?
>Spend a full 5 hours setting up a meeting to discuss logistics, getting all the troops and equipment ready, only for everything to be useless unless you resorted to nukes
OR
>Send out a giant robot in like 30 minutes that has a much better chance of defeating it with less collateral. Because last time I checked, a seven thousand ton fist going at several hundred miles an hour that can be used repeatedly with no reload necessary is pretty pragmatic compared to bunker buster bombs.

>>20954793
Nice

>>20955859
>I never understood this, booze kills my ability to write. Coffee or a redbull can help though.
Unironically try both at the same time, like most of the greats did.

>>20957208
>>cast shadows fall and seize my bed, / I'll hang — by sprawling fixtures
>I did not understand. Can you explain what this means? I guess "sprawling fixtures" refers to the curtains, but what does the other verse mean?
you're right about the "sprawling fixtures" referring to the curtains, but they are described as sprawling because of the way flower petals open up in spring. maybe that came across but i figured i'd clarify just in case.
the phrase "cast shadows" is a noun in itself, so i'm not using the word "cast" as a verb or anything. so "cast shadows" are falling over the bed, which is due to the spring-light enveloping the windows and shining through the closed curtains.
this is also a metaphor for mental "shadows" falling over the person talking, as they seem to have some pretty serious issues with springtime.
the "hang" refers to the act of suicide — "hanging" from the room, which is now opening up like a flower (i.e., the comfort zone of the narrator dissolving.
the room is also intended to act a as a metaphor for the brain, so the room opening up like a flower is kind of analogous to an ego death, or literal death even.

thanks for the criticism. it's hard to know how clear i'm being about my ideas until someone else reads what i've written and tells me.

More words today
Third book just broke 20k
Ever closer brothers.

>>20958138
In fact a big part of my story is sort of a jab at people who criticize the giant monster genre for being unrealistic. So I decide to think of ways these things could function IRL
>He’d be crushed under his own weight
Yeah, guess what. This fuckers tissues are stupidly strong. It’s bones are able to withstand at most ten thousand megapascals of pressure, for example.

I lack life experience to write anything besides some cheap ya fantasy.

>>20957372
Overdude is pure shit, retard. Fuck off from this thread

>>20958260
>So I decide to think of ways these things could function IRL
The more attention you draw to it, the more people will question it and the more realism-complainers you'll attract. There's a reason that superhero and monster stories don't bring up physics.

>>20958302
I wanna write cheap ya fantasy

How do I become a royal road CHAD

Need help on dialogue. I'm kinda scared to write too long and too specific.

I can write semi functional dialogue, get the simple structure of the conversation out. I'm mostly scared of the specifics and the voices

>>20958327
It's not like other people can teach you how humans speak. You should've learned that as a baby.

>>20958332
I know how others speak. I just don't dare to write, I'm a timid person.
I could certainly be a better writer so could looking into already written dialogue be a replacement?

>>20958353
>I just don't dare to write, I'm a timid person.
This is a whole new level of pussy. I'm afraid the only real solution is to go out there and find some courage.

>>20958359
I really can't. I have to really force myself to do any attempt at practice. My ideas could use some polish but they're good and solid. I've always been too scared to try.

>>20958353
>>20958327
>I'm kinda scared to write too long and too specific.
>I'm a timid person.
I hate people like you. Just write. Share your work here and others will critique, you'll learn. Like, what do you expect us to tell you? You just want to whine. Fuck you. I hope you never marry someone. You're just going to be an useless emotional drain on your partner.

>>20958386
I'm ace/aro.
Anon, any serious advice for writing dialogue for a game?
I went over and played my inspirations, took careful notes. It's not flowery language but economic prose.
Game writing depends on setting, lore, companions and overall arch. I have the setting, the lore and some good base for the companions. Still taking out and reolacing lots but it's in better shape than my approach at writing.

>>20958399
write a litRPG. i dare you

>>20958399
kys

>be aspiring writer on /lit/
>spend years creating your manuscript
>spend more years googling trying to find literary agents that are accepting submissions from straight white males and in whatever vein you wrote, or independent publishing houses that offer the same, then sending out query letters and waiting months to hear back
>after years you're finally accepted by an indie publisher in Whogivesafuckistan
>they list your little book on their website for sale through Amazon.com

how do you think a novel with a mass-shooter protagonist would be received? it wouldn't glorify the act or anything, think something more akin to crime and punishment i guess

>>20958535
A Sam Hyde biography would probs sell pretty well.

>>20958539
kek

>>20958535
I imagine it'd be impossible to get it through traditional publishing unless it was a condemnation of white supremacy incel shooters and had a strong gun ban message.

>>20958550
yeah that's what i'm thinking too. shame. i think it'd be a good medium to explore ethics, psychology, and the influence of technology. but i guess i'll have to think of a premise that's less inflammatory

>>20958553
Why not just write what you want to write?

>he thinks he's gonna get a publisher

>>20958556
i don't want to devote myself to such a gruelling and involved undertaking as writing a novel if it's almost certain to go unread/unseen. i'm all for making art for the sake of making art (like buddhists drawing in sand), but when it's something like writing a whole ass novel... i don't think i'd ever complete it if i'm certain no one will even see it

>>20958561
I'll read it if you publish it desu

>>20958568
i'll probably end up writing it one day, even if it ends up as just a novella. it's an idea i've had for a while so i might just do it for fun

How's this read? The next portion will be a flashback, but also written in third person.

>>20958580
I'd rearrange the first line to something like:
>The sky was as a painter's palette, swirled with reds, pinks, purples, blues, all intermingled with sparse black clouds that looked like burnt marshmallows as the sun began its descent below the alpine treeline nearby the old park playground.
Remove "as he did so" or make it at most "as he did". Add a comma after "park itself" and "new weight" later one.

Having big sentences is alright but there's an art to making them read more easily that older writers would employ. It's a fantasy convention to have longer sentences that feel a bit whimsical, but it does take some engineering to get them sounding better. If you're using them in non-fantasy stories it'll give it a bit of a whimsy. Depends on the tone you're going for. If it's not the tone, then just break up the sentences.

>>20958594
I did think it was a bit clunky. Thanks for the feedback.

>The freeway divided what seemed endless seas of pine, enveloped by a veil clouded-moonlight shadows.
is this sentence gay or nah

>>20958623
What does it mean?

>>20958626
it's describing a road and the environment surrounding it. i guess it's too ambiguous fuck

>>20958631
Yeah but what's a "veil clouded-moonlight shadow"?

It sounds like a yu-gi-oh! card.

>>20958634
oh shit it's supposed to be
veil of clouded-moonlight shadows
typo

>>20958635
I summoned Veil-Clouded Moonlight Shadow, in Attack Position! When this card is Normal Summoned, I can banish this card until your next End Phase to Special Summon 1 Level 4 or lower Flip Effect monster from my deck face-down!

>>20958642
kek it's not supposed to sound like a yu-gi-oh! card it's supposed to sound cool and poetic!

>>20958645
YGO is cool AND poetic, so mission accomplished.

>>20958647
alright i'm going to double down and writing as many descriptions that sound like yugioh cards as possible throughout rest of the story

>>20958652
Based.

>>20958623
>The freeway divided what seemed endless seas of pine, undulating beneath a veil of sea-foam moonlight.
i feel like it's even more gay now

>>20958684
I activate the quick-play spell, Veil of Sea-foam Moonlight! I can target one of my Flip Effect monsters and make it so it can't be targeted or destroyed by your card effects until the end of the turn!

>>20957721
this is very generic
>bring the tools
>hurried through a small corridor
>the downtown jewelry store
>any thef worth a damn
>worth xxx on the street
>carefully studying the movements of every employee
these and more make it seem like you yourself don't have a very clear idea about what you're describing looks like, rather you're juxtaposing clichés
and there's a few grammatical errors
>as if was some revelation the others didn't already know
you know facts, you don't know revelations, one way of putting this might be as if he was revealing something the others didn't already know
>but Charles, the so-called mastermind of the plan had shown up late
there should be a comma after plan
>they had spent 4 days studying carefully
the adverb goes before the verb here
and I can't be bothered to read the rest, but
>the safe, a simple 1960 Brevete
the fact that this is the first time you mention the year and maker despite the safe having been relevant and mentioned multiple times before makes it seem like an afterthought, like you outlined the general plot very vaguely and are filling in the details as you go

>>20958689
lol god damnit

>>20958700
i can't take the line seriously anymore i have to change it

>>20958700
>>20958702
Here for you, Anon.

>>20958707
>The freeway divided what seemed endless seas of pine, quietly undulating beneath a thin sheet of bubbling moonlight.
final answer. completely not yugioh-able

>>20958744
Sheet of Bubbling Moonlight
[Continuous Spell]
You can target 1 face-up Flip monster you control; change it to face-down defense position. Your opponent cannot target that monster with attacks or card effects until the end of their next turn, but it does not prevent your opponent from attacking you directly. You can only use the effect of "Sheet of Bubbling Moonlight" once per turn.

Nerd.

>>20958752

Thoughts?

>>20958757
>click
>it was just a normal day for sonic the hed-
>unclick

I don't know and I don't wanna know.

>>20954798
>he proved he proved
You can’t write, but what can I expect from /lit/?

>>20958559
>he wants a trad publisher anyways

>>20958812
If you can write at this quality you can be the best self-published fantasy author

>>20958822
N I N E T Y P E R C E N T

>>20958822
ZZZZzzzzz

Oh my God I'm so bad at dialogue jesus christ aaaah.

>>20958938
dialogue is hard for me too. i think it's because real conversations are usually composed of brief sentences and questions, so it's awkward to switch back and forth constantly. the alternative is making everyone talk in huge speeches which is also awkward.

that and the fact that i have no idea how other people think/talk

>>20958757
I thought you can't post fanfics here

>>20958691
The grammar stuff ill fix when I reread. I was just trying push through to get the words.

But the generic description, how do you suggest I remedy that problem?
I mean, you are right, I was having trouble visualizing what would be needed for a robbery.

>>20958691
>general plot very vaguely and are filling in the details as you go
also true

I have decided to write at work in addition to writing at home. I got so much done the other day just by incorporating a session after 2PM. This has to be the way to be productive, by finding any excuse to write sonething down, even if its on a notepad or I email it to myself.

>>20958812
I want to believe, but proofs?

Judge me.
https://pastebin.com/DteNTC3G

>>20958757
Lack of character description really broke my engagement? No mirror device to give us some?

>>20958812
>>20959088
I was reading an overlong le fact check of this yesterday, TL;DR was that dataset broke unique books up into multiple buckets (virtual, physical, editions, sale zones) or something fucky like that. And only for first year not over lifetime.

The sales data is really bad but not THAT bad. I think that article said 60% of published books sell under 1k copies total or something

>>20959117
>jutted horizon
Stopped reading right there. Wtf is a jutted horizon?

>>20959131
Jutted Horizon
[Field Spell]
EARTH monsters you control gain 1000 DEF and can attack while in defense position, using their DEF for damage calculation. Once per turn; you can Special Summon 1 EARTH monster from your hand in defense position.

>>20959131
Thanks for the fact check. I hadn't heard of the merger at all so reading a few articles about it where CEOs argue that they're gambling with millions of dollars was a real laugh. And then of course there were the stats about books being 75% white or something.

>>20959143
That's OP as fuck.

>>20958812
>Sold 30 books
Woo hoo!!!! I made more than 1/2 of trade publishers!!!

>>20959131
>>20959143
>>20959160
Come on now, it just means the horizon line that has been jutted. What else should it mean?

>>20959204
Don't care, it's a YGO card now.

>>20959117
what are you trying to do with this?

>>20959088
>>20959131
While it's true that the data does split between digital and physical and other things that create unique ISBNs that dilute the numbers, there is a monumental amount of cope around the facts on the articles that say "Um, Now Sweetie, The Publishing Industry Isn't Dying!" where they try to debunk doomer datasets on sales.

While the whole 50% sell under a dozen thing is skewed, it's not far from reality either. If you assume the average release is split between a digital and a physical then you can guess around whether it gets two dozen sales or what.

The reality is you're facing down a few things:
0. You have to go through two levels of corporate gatekeeping to go traditional publishing, one to go indie publishing, or none but good luck for self-publishing.
1. Reading is dying as a method of intaking media and has been for some time. There are not a lot of readers to begin with as an audience pool to sell to compared to other mediums.
2. Most readers buy the classics. They don't go out of their comfort zone to try new things.
3. The next minority level that does go try new things try things based on Oprah's book club and NYT Best Seller and other industry lists that your publisher can pay to get you on, maybe. But even then, is your work appealing to a mass audience either in genre or tone?
4. Otherwise you're relying on the minuscule number of readers who will go out of their way to seek out obscure published books from new authors.
5. There is literally infinite books being published every single day.

This is why sales for most books are abysmal and everyone in the industry knows it. Corporate publishing is all but dead in the same way that radio is all but dead thanks to podcasting. Yeah there's the old boomer standards still hanging on, but the reality is when literally anyone can shit their book out on KDP there is no barrier to entry anymore. Traditional publishing only hangs on in some sense by still having their industry insider awards like music has the Grammys to try to reward the good boy artists who still pimp their souls to Sony Music, but that's the old fuddy duddy squares at this point. No one even takes those things seriously after they got shit on by three men writing as a woman to exploit their retard agendas.

>>20959215
SInce you asked.

>>20959117
what’s the last book you’ve read?

>>20959204
This is what I thought too but anon's response gives me conniptions. The amount of clarity I have to have to not piss people off is so unclear and I just want to write but sometimes I am writing arcane topics and not sure if people trust I know what Im talking about or just get mad thinking i am bullshitting. God how do you establish that kind of trust? I have heard some authors say you have to make a big lie first to trust you with the little ones but I dont know how to put that in practice.

>>20959252
it’s not a matter of trust, sorry. the excerpt was amateur

>>20959229
>Traditional publishing only hangs on in some sense by still having their industry insider awards like music has the Grammys to try to reward the good boy artists who still pimp their souls to Sony Music, but that's the old fuddy duddy squares at this point.
Yeah some guy in another thread said a reason to go traditional publishing is your books will be eligible for industry awards. That sounds gay as AIDs desu. Unless you're a black trans female activist writing a book about teaching flight simulator to impoverished Ugandan women to inspire them to become pilots you're not getting those awards anyway and frankly if you're looking for little gold stars from corporate interests you should just make like a true writer and drink yourself to death instead.

>>20959247
This seems like worldbuilding for worldbuilding's sake desu. Would probably work better as a tabletop game (and I suspect that's your background as well). Even then, by your own admission, it's just a bunch of things you put together without much afterthought. Your story ideas don't really explore the worldbuilding stuff you talk about in the beginning and, again, all of them feel like hooks for adventures in a tabletop campaign.

>>20959252
Read Palaniuk's essay on "establishing your authority". It talks about exactly this.

>>20959290
nta but can you give any points? just from the sound of it, i’m thinking this is regarding ‘voice’.. but that is not the issue here

>>20959300
Nah it's not about voice. It's about what you said, establishing trust with the reader. Just read it. It's like 2-3 pages long and an easy read.

>>20959310
If, after reading it, you still don't get it just post in this thread (or the next one, since this one is almost dead) and we can discuss.

anyone care to give me a writing prompt? for practice
>>20959316
thanks, but i am (Not That Anon). was interesting still. i’ve read about that before.. here maybe

>>20959359
Equinestration.

>>20958317
Write 2.5k words five days a week.

>>20959371
this is an addiction i dont want to encourage.

>>20959385
wat.

>>20959252
Why I SRRT'd was that "jutted" was not concrete - its abstract to the point that it's a near meaningless line. It's similar to opening by saying "I walked across a shadowed floor" - most floors are shadowed so why do I care and what am I learning. A skyline jutted by mesas or skyscrapers is more concrete and informative. Look up pyramid of abstraction as concept for this.

>>20959229
Yea I agree that substack was thick with cope. It even had the line "were going from a big to big 4 and that's a good thing" kek, same people who cry about muh life under capitalism

>>20959389
*Big 5 to big 4
Allah forgive me for phoneposting.

>>20959204
>>20959204
Jutting means to stick out of something. e.g. A nail juts from a wooden plank. The entire horizon cannot stick out of anything. A building could jut from the horizon, but I wouldn't recommend it.

All of your sentences are fucked up. Mixed metaphor in the second. 'Starlight' is a mass noun and cannot be plural. 'A lungful of human sweat' implies he's drowning in a liquid. Buses do not stomp.

Try writing more like you actually speak instead of whatever you're doing here.

>>20959425
>>20959389
>>20959280
Thanks for your criticism, Anons!

>>20959387
yours

>>20959359
[WP] You are a human running a bar that, unbeknownst to the public, mostly caters to various supernatural entities. One day while walking home after closing down for the night, you are attacked and robbed. Your clientele decide to seek justice on your behalf, in a way that only they can do.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WritingPrompts/

>>20959530
awful

>>20958985
oh shit

>>20959131
what do you mean "mirror device?" i don't know that term

>>20959618
A device that works like a mirror, for example a bathroom mirror, by which Sonic could view his own visage and describe it for the reader

I wrote a comment at length where I spoke about my recent successes with writing, how I have maintained a routine now for almost three weeks and been more productive and driven than I ever have before. I deleted it though as I believe I wrote it out of vanity, from some desire to be praised for my efforts and successes with maintaining good habits, but also for the stylistic effects of that post I had written, which had become quite exaggerated towards the end of it, and perhaps to be praised for the ideas I raised in the post, such as my comments on golems and eidolons which I related to the work I desire to create and also ended on that theme with a reference to The Sick Rose by Blake, though the association was oblique, and I must have desired to be asked how it fit with what came before, at which point of course I would talk at length about beliefs in thought-forms and prove to myself how educated I can be when I am given the chance. There was also of course that hint of loneliness driving it too, the desire to reach out and connect with someone who may find in what I wrote some reflection of themselves, either real or imagined, and in that regard we could connect with each other, and perhaps some of our loneliness would dissipate through that slight off-handed meeting, though it really wouldn't be a meeting of any sort, and the whole thing could remain isolated in our unconscious flashes of imagination (at which point it may be logical to ask why bother trying to connect at all if we could just imagine our loneliness being disrupted?). My own vanity would not be quiet, however, and so I wrote all of this to summarise my previous post which I shall not post. I thought of deleting this one also, but I would not want to write another post that had to summarise and explain two previously deleted posts, and so this one shall have to go and stand testament to my own pathetic desires that so often make me act to satisfy them, though they rarely do their host any good with their requests.

I shall sign off with a tip of practical use you have probably heard before, but I shall mention just in case you haven't, and shall remind you of even if you have, knowing so well that we ignore many things in life that we should not until some strange moment when it presents itself as something more powerful than we ever imagined, hardly believing we could have ignored it for so long: maintain single use environments so as to psychologically anchor a specific task to a specific place e.g. a chair you do nothing but read in, a desk you sit at to do nothing but write fiction . . .

>>20959741
oh. i think everyone already knows what he looks like

>>20958985
Says who?

>>20954679
>Listen here nigger, your intended audience knows the conventions of the genre but they still want to be surprised.

Just to build on that thought: I was reading the George Saunder's book, Swim in a Pond in the Rain last week where he dissects a number of classic Russian stories and speaks about the various ways a writer creates a story. Reader's expectations and how they are resolved were a big topic. When an element is introduced, it creates an expectation that the reader will want to be fulfilled. If you resolve the expectation too cleanly, however, too obviously, the reader is disappointed e.g. a man goes to the store to buy some bread and does, in fact, buy some bread. At the same time if you do something completely different in an effort to surprise the reader but without respecting causality (another big topic in the book) then the reader will assume everything is random and meaningless and will neglect to form any more expectations and so never build the groundwork for them to be surprised by your work e.g. a man goes to the store to buy some bread but when he steps outside he finds himself in the Bahamas in a dance competition funded by Marvel Studios. Saunder's says the trick is to create and expectation, to put in the reader's mind some possible path that may follow from the given situation, and to then deliver on that expectation but with some variation e.g. a man goes to the store to buy some bread, but the store is closed, and now he must find another way to get some bread.

This topic came to mind for me again the other day when I saw a candid video that I thought was a wonderful example of audience expectations and how they can be resolved in novel ways that are interesting and enjoyable. It was a video of a man in front of a dart board, who then places one hand on the dartboard with his fingers spread in such a way as to leave a gap where the bullseye was. My expectations were of two varieties here: the dart goes into his hand, which seems to be statistically the most likely, or, the dart hits the bullseye, which would be a satisfying display of skill and subvert my desire to see the young man maimed. Imagine how happy I was when my expectations were resolved with the novel twist being that the dart was thrown and landed and then stuck in the young man's forehead.

What expectations does a text create for a reader, and how can they be resolved in a way that is original, and interesting, while still respecting the causal logic that the story has so far presented (which is another type of expectation in itself. If the story began in a manner that broke universal laws of reality, it may be appropriate that when the man goes out to buy a loaf of bread he finds himself suddenly transported to the Bahamas)?

>>20955108
I like this. I think the other guy with the longer post is right that the ending feels like a cop out. This story never escalated beyond the basic premise. Things should have built on each other, but they didn't. As it stands it is more like an anecdote than a story. But it kept me reading. I was a little confused myself when the hands were sprayed, as I didn't realise pepper spray is painful even when applied to the skin, I thought it needed to go in eyes or some other vulnerable opening. I'm not sure if I am just very ignorant on the topic, coming from a country where that is banned, or if that is something that is worth clarifying in some way in the story, about how painful it can be even when it touches a bit of bare skin, and how to spray it in the eyes was something no one ever dared to do (this, as I write it, actually presents itself as one way in which the story could have escalated and the stakes could have increased until it led to some sort of resolution: one day a kid asks for it to be sprayed in his face, wanting to prove himself tough for some reason previously given, such as he cried the week before when his hand was sprayed and he felt he had to be tougher now. I would also try to incorporate Willie into the escalation and resolution of this plot, as he seems like a character that should return for something more significant considering he is the only character in this piece that even has a name).

>>20959756
smoke weed every day

>>20959756
>>20959912
>>20959972
Meds. Now.

>>20960004

Gameanon here, look at this, simple, economic, beautiful.

>>20960145
I have a full setting but I still don't know where to start. Making the game character already have a personality might be a risky move.

This scene I wanted to write, early game. Monk type character, I've got the faction, the story behind it, this guy's personality and role in the game. I still can't bring myself to write the dialogue tree.

>>20958203
Oh I see! Your elucidation brings out the poem's charm. Much better.

>>20958307
>Fuck off from this thread
Oh no, anon, you flight-or-fight instinct is telling you to get away from me! Run, anon, run!
Next time give some actual argument, walking braindeath.

>>20960216
Name one (1) thing Overload does well.
I'm waiting for a good laugh.

>>20958332
Most humans speak boring, uninteresting crap. When someone asks for help on dialogue, they are asking you how to trascend the retardation normal humans engage in, who people with two braincells would not waste time reading because it is boring, uninteresting crap.

>>20960243
this poster has autism
simple human dialogue can be good

>>20960239
You are the fool claiming it is pure shit; I and hundreds of thousands of fans from all over the world know it is great. The burden of proof is on you, retard.

>>20960272
>X is good
>why
>LOTS OF PEOPLE LIKE IT OK PROVE TO ME ITS NOT
not even the antagonizer retard but come on

>>20960243
I'll let you in on a secret. You don't talk to people or listen to them talk to print out what they say 1:1 and call it a day. You do it to learn how people behave, how they typically respond in different situations, what kind of feelings they experience when they are confronted by certain things, etc.

In short, you gain understanding of human nature, of different perspectives that are not you. Then, using that understanding, you'll be able to construct fictional people, who behave naturally, but are actually interesting, because you've learned what makes real life exchanges boring and what makes them fun, and know how to subvert the pitfalls, at the same time making your writing comprehensible to a layman, who knows how people really talk, and is able to see how you surpass expectations.

If you don't do this, then you'll be stuck making up shit based only on ASSUMPTIONS and theories and anime fantasies, with no basis whatsoever in reality, and anyone who has actually talked to real people, and who reads the resulting drivel, can immediately tell, "holy shit, either this guy beamed down here from Alpha Centauri or else has never left his mom's basement!" And you'll have to live with that.

>>20960284
More like
>x is good
>nooo its shit
>why
>th-then you tell me why!!
Come on now.

>>20960298
That is basically what I said. What the anon is asking is the good of dialogue without the bad, which he himself cannot distinguish.

>>20960298
I know this, look, from the few things I've posted here.
How bad is it doc?

>>20960316
You're putting words in the anon's mouth he didn't say, and your comment can only be seen as advising against paying any attention to real conversations, which is actually the only way to learn this.

>>20960253
>>20960298
>>20960351
Damn, anons, where do you live? Who are these interesting, funny, intelligent, knowledgeable people you converse with? The people I meet talk only about politics or news or pop culture, and repeat the same shit over and over again just to fill the void of silence; when having a discussion, they only know to insult each other and hope the offense proves superiority, or ask for a brawl to settle the truth. Fallacies, biases, lies, etc.

>>20960421
>repeat the same shit over and over again just to fill the void of silence; when having a discussion, they only know to insult each other and hope the offense proves superiority
Leaving 4chan would be a solid start

>>20960438
>he thinks it only happens on 4chan
LOL. Were that the case, I would have felt really weirded out when I first came here.

>>20960243
>>20960298
>>20960316
This exchange is in itself a good example of how dialogue often works. It is not two lucid creatures speaking with each other, it is two creatures who are stuck in their own little worlds and can only glimpse a small aspect of the other strange creature that is speaking, and so, what happens actually happens in a conversation is that each speaker really only speaks to and about themselves and what they say sort of relates to what the other person said, but not quite. It is not like two trains crashing together but like two trains going side by side in opposite directions, or like that picture of Vin Diesel and the Rock where they are both looking past each other due to the staging of the shot, though they are supposed to be talking directly to each other (which I believe is itself a misconception, and that these actors were, indeed, actually supposed to look like they were looking past each other, and it then became an out of context meme that this was somehow a vanity shot to protect Vin Diesel from having to stand next to the Rock and expose how much shorter he actually is, and this little factoid is in itself another example of things are shifted as they pass from one to another and meaning is corrupted and reimbued by the receiver; if I have misremembered this fact and gotten it all completely wrong then this is actually a twice filtered little example of how often communication is actually miscommunication, and that what people say actually very rarely relates to the topic they have decided to speak on, but rather what they say fills in an aspect of that character by showing people in relief against the backdrop of all the information they did not grasp and all the ways they misconstrued and veered away from what was actually said).

>Timmy hears a shout in the background. Dinner's ready, Timmy! he hears. It's his mother calling. Timmy runs back to the house, but there is no dinner, no one in the kitchen. Upstairs he hears his mother moaning, groaning, shouting loudly as her bedframe bangs against the wall: Gimme, Teddy! Gimme! When he goes to school the next day and his teacher goes around the class asking each student in turn what they had for dinner last night, Timmy stands up furious, his chair falling over as he throws his desk aside. Fuck you, Miss! he shouts, and runs out the classroom while the teacher stands there by the chalkboard, stunned, and the class begins to break out in giggles.

People don't always react the way they may be expected to if we read each conversation as though they were speaking to each other logically and focused solely on the given topic. People can have all sorts of things in their head when they enter a conversation, and sometimes what they say is more about that internal dialogue they are having with themselves than anything the other person may have said. I forgot what exactly I was replying to probably 10 or 15 minutes ago when I think I started to type out this reply.

>>20960474
This was funny and interesting, and a random common person would not have said something like this during dialogue irl. Great.

https://www.scribblehub.com/read/436962-a-hero-among-monsters/chapter/547764/

>>20960474
Inner dialogue. The key to my conflict, anon, I need to improve. I'm far too laconic myself in thinking, far too word averse. How to grasp this truth and replicate it?
It can be a simulation for all I care, pretends to be good even of ot really isn't. As long as it works.

>>20960694
See? I talk like an alien hiding between human flesh. Do I sound boring and robotic? I do.

I am robotic, right?
That's why I am talentless at writing, right? Completely robotic and rigid in thinking, a functional mind meant only to carry out whatever it orders BUT DONT GO IN TOO DEEP, pure wiring.

>>20960712
just tolk too retarded humans bro youll andestaand human nature and uze dat andestaanding

I AM A ROBOT!
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA

ILL NEVER MAKE A NOVEL OR A GAME NO NEVER
IF IDID IT WOULD BE JUST LIKE JUST LIKE WISEAU
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA


HACK SHIT
I HAVE TO END MYLIFE
RAPE MYSELF
RAOE MYSELF EITH PROPER INTENT TO FUCK MYSELF TO FUCKING DEATH

ALL OF YOU ARE PIECES OF SHIT I SHIT ON YOU

GOOOOOOOOOD IS DEAD
AND NO ONE CARESSSS
IF THERE IS A HELL ILL SEEEEEEEE YOUUUUUUUUUTHERREEEEEEEE
YOOOOOUUUUUUR GOOOOOOOOD IS DEAAAAD
AND nooo one cares
IF THERE IS A HELL ILL SEE YOU THERE


GOOOOOOD IS DEAD
AND NO ONE CARESSSS
IF THERE IS A HELL
ILL SEE YOU THERE
YOUUUUR GOD IS DEAAAD
GOD IS DEAD
AND NO ONE CARES
and no one cares
drowning in his own hypocrisy
IFTHEREISAHEEELLLLburningwithyoutgodinhumilityILLSEEYOUTHERE

whAT WAS I THINKING MAKING A GAME Ahahahahahha
I am the voice inside tour head and I control you
I am the lover in your bed and i ontrol you
I am the SEX you provide and Icontrol you
I am the Hate you try to Hide and i ontrol you
ITAKEYOUWHEREYOUWANTTOGOIGIVEYOUALLYOUNEEDTOKNOW

I DRAAAG YOU DOWN I USE YOU UP


MR SELF DESTRUCT
I speak religions message CLEAR and Icontrolyou
I am denial Guilt and fearand Icontrolyou
I am the prayers of the naive And I control you
I am the lie that you believe and i control you

I TAKE YOU WHERE YOU WANT TOGO
..............
I GIVE YOU ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW......................... I DRAG YOU DOWN I USE YOU UP................
EHHHHHHHH MR SELF DESTRUCTyouletmedothistoyoiamanexityouletmedothistiyouiamanexityouketmedothistoyouiamanexityouletmedothistoyouiamanexityouletmedothistoyouiamanexityouletmedothistoyouiamanrxityouletmedothistoyoiamanexityouletmedothistoyouiamanexituouletmrdothistoyouiamanrxiy

I am the needleeee inthe vein
I am the high you cant sustain

IM THE PUSHER Im a WhORe
i am the need jn you for more

Is it method acting? Thats how Ive been most prolific in writing sessions is by unhinging myself.

>>20960694
>>20960712
>>20960731
You want to write a representation of non-linguistic thoughts? Is that right? Or maybe just the thought processes of a person that blurs in and out of linguistic thought against a more abstract background, as I think most people do. I'm sure you could make an attempt, though it obviously sounds like an impossible task, though it might be a very good goal to have for that same reason. When you write you use words, specific units of meaning, even if those units are themselves fairly vague units (still specific in their vagueness). To create something abstract using non-abstract things . . . Experimental fiction and strange stream of consciousness writing comes to mind. Or realism, where you avoid showing thoughts at all, and only hint at them with the things they do or do not do, like in the little example story I wrote with Timmy that shows that he is upset about his mom not making him dinner because she was too busy getting railed in the afternoon, without showing his thoughts.

For me, I have certain types of stories that I have enjoyed and would like to create more of in the same vein, or certain styles of writing that I like and would like to incorporate into my own style somehow. Thinking about other stories you wish you had written might be more helpful to you than trying to represent an aspect of reality with language. Also, maybe in trying to accomplish one thing you can inadvertently get closer to a representation of reality than you could if you were to actually try to create a representation of it. This puts me in mind of that one paragraph Borges story where a map is made that is on a 1 to 1 scale with the world and is, as a result, completely useless. As was hinted at in the conversation about dialogue earlier, it is often things that are false that show the most truth about the way things are. It is a strange thing. Anyway, I do not know what your goals or tastes are, but I think it is a constant truth for writers that you will only discover what you are after by working, by writing as much as you can and hoping that some of it has some value, and of course by reading every day from a wide range of quality authors.

I should also say that what I said earlier about dialogue and how important a character's internal world is to that dialogue, is an observation I took from A Swim in a Pond in the Rain by George Saunders, which I thought had a lot of insightful things to say on fiction.

I have just learned the Queen has died, by the way. I am genuinely quite sad.

>>20960811
That is one way of doing it, I think, though I only know the popular concept of method acting and have never actually read about it properly. But somehow discovering 'a voice' that intrigues you and running with it to see how that voice deals with things is one way to begin writing and working through situations. That's also spoken of in the George Saunders book I mentioned. That really was a very good book.

>>20960829
Yeah im not an actor but my best writan session I channeled the desperation I had from one thing in my life and then convinced myself it was something different, far more dramatic, and it gave me this wild sense of pain and urgency. Helped me form some schizo kinds of arguments as I freaked out. Unfortunately the lower action parts are less developed as a consequence.

>>20960829
>>20960735

>>20960829
I'm not writing. Not a book anyways.
See >>20960145
The game is a pure pipe dream, should have stuck with something else.