/lit/ - Literature

>>20913408
The only reason he gets shit on so much is because he's the only man that has actually tried to defend Neoliberalism on philosophical and intellectual grounds.
Everything else is just strings of bullshit pieced together to formulate psuedo-moralistic brutisms, such as "Our Democracy", "Love is Love", "Assad gassed his own people", "The Holocaust", etc.

Why don't you just read his books and essays? He published a book earlier this year where he talks about the challenges liberalism is encountering. Right now he believes that the liberal world order is very fragile, blaming polarization and identity politics on why it hasn't triumphed around the world as much as he anticipated. His proposed solution right now is for liberalism to compromise and integrate a common national identity for the population so that they don't mobilize around identity groups

>>20913448
>>20913448
New Fukuyama to dunk on? You've got my attention thread.

>>20913408
I didn't know Murakami was an academic

For a long while he just doubled down on the triumphant millenarism. Now as >>20913448 says he's in some heavy bargaining stage. His obvious aim is to safeguard as much of the globohomo as he can by targeted concessions.
It will be too little, too late.

You guys legit have no idea what you’re talking about. Everything he said is still totally valid. You guys are just fucking retard chapocels/alt righters who don’t read anything ever because you’re too busy jacking off into your own mouth over anime. He’s absolutely right - there hasn’t been a challenge to the liberal world order yet. Russia (liberal) invading Ukraine (liberal) over territorial disputes on their border (liberal) doesn’t refute his point that liberalism was the culminations of human political ideology. There is no new ideology (Marxism/Fascism/Catholic monarchism) to challenge Liberalism and now even places in the world that have held out against liberalism are starting to liberalize (Saudi Arabia).

You guys are just so fucking stupid man and it makes me want to punch holes in my apartments dry wall. Just use your fucking heads for one fucking second.

>>20914933
He’s a conservative

>>20914960
Globohomo is "conservative". It's been the dominant ideological trend since world war one in its lighter form and since the 1950s in its hard form (including ethnic replacement).
China will triumph btw. No amount of cope will make them "liberal" or "liberalizing" right now.

>>20914983
They already are and have since Deng you fucking gigantic faggot. China is fully integrated into the world economy.

Another classic subhuman post by /lit/! !!!

>>20914960
If you think Russia or Ukraine are liberal in any meaningful sense, you might be genuinely retarded.

>>20914995
I expected this response after clicking submit. You are too far gone to even deserve a reply but whatever Deng did has little to do with "liberalizing" as Fukuyama uses it. In any case Xi crushed any such misrepresentation of China going forward.
>China is fully integrated into the world economy.
The fact you think any of this fight is mainly or even in large part commercial in nature just says enough.

>>20913448
>His proposed solution right now is for liberalism to compromise and integrate a common national identity
Libtards literally are just now figuring this out? It's so over lmao.

>>20913408
is that the guy who yelled mean words at water?

>>20913448
>His proposed solution right now is for liberalism to compromise and integrate a common national identity

So his solution is basically to go back to Reaganite fusionism where you have civic nationalism and Christian conservatism on top of radical free market capitalism.

I find it very curious that he doesn't understand that this is exactly the politics that gave us the current situation in the US.

>>20915077
Put yourself in his shoes anon, after years of getting sucked off by every neolib with a college degree you get BTFO on a scale not seen since the renaissance

These threads are always shit.
Libshits ate infuriating ideologue that never concede defeat, no matter how utterly BTFO they get philosophically and practically.
It would take a liberal democratic republic declaring war on another liberal democratic republic to utterly discredit their failed ideology and even then I bet you a 100 dollars they’ll insist it didn’t count just like the realists.
It doesn’t matter what Fuck your mama says anymore, actual policy makers are doubling down on clownworld just like the Soviet leadership did with hypernormalization even though it’s clear to anyone with eyes and two brain cells to rub together that everything is falling apart.
Even if they did make concessions to nationalists, it’s too little too late, just like glasnost and perestroika didn’t prevent the USSR from dissolving.

>>20915086
I'm just surprised that a guy who is pro-capitalism and liberalism thinks the concept of "going back" to some previous era is even plausible or desirable.

The concept of national identity is literally dead. Capitalism destroyed it. The only countries on the planet that are ethnically homogeneous barely have enough kids to replace themselves, and 95% of them invite foreign workers to make up for this fact. If he thinks some kind of CivNat renaissance is going to stop woke techno-capitalism, he is really delusional.

bump

>>20913408
Isn't it about time I got my Nobel Prize in Literature?

>>20914997
You don't know what liberalism is.

>>20915086
>Put yourself in his shoes anon, after years of getting sucked off by every neolib with a college degree you get BTFO on a scale not seen since the renaissance
Why do you think he's already refuted?
(honest question)

>>20915093
>Even if they did make concessions to nationalists, it’s too little too late, just like glasnost and perestroika didn’t prevent the USSR from dissolving.
You're getting too cocky, don't you think?

>>20913448
/Thread

>>20913448
So he is literally just saying the same thing Michael Ignatieff said when he invented the concept of Civic Nationalism

>>20913448
>a common national identity for the population
Based on what? Supporting homosexuality and children undergoing gender transition? Everything about this civilization is a disgusting joke.

>>20915077
>>20916556
>>20916958
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ukraine/2022-04-01/francis-fukuyama-liberalism-country
He elaborates his position in this essay. Anyways he's clearly not as optimistic about liberalism being triumphant around the world but he still hasn't changed his mind that it is still the ideal state of political economy. He accepts that liberal societies and institutions will endure periods of decay before they develop again.

Isn't his argument that Neoliberalism is the highest form of development, not that it is necessarily inevitable or permeant?

>>20917275
He claimed both. He said that liberalism is naturally what modern political development optimizes into and also predicted that most countries would become liberal in the 21st century. He still argues the former, but has changed his mind on the latter. If you read his recent books and interviews he actually wants someone like Bernie in charge of America because neoliberalism has gone too far.

>>20917304
>he actually wants someone like Bernie in charge of America because neoliberalism has gone too far.

So he's gone senile.

>>20913408
This man, in my country he is everything

>>20917304
>Bernie in charge of America because neoliberalism has gone too far.
What? What would it change?

>>20913408
>I cant imagine a living academic more refuted and disgraced
I present you Paul Krugmann

>>20913430
>The only reason he gets shit on so much is because he's the only man that has actually tried to defend Neoliberalism on philosophical and intellectual grounds.
Popper and Rawls have made more and a better work on that

>>20914960
this is your brain on Fukuyama

>>20913408
Who?

>>20914960
This is the saddest cope I've seen in a while. Liberalism is a failed experiment through and through, never in the history of mankind has an ideology so removed from both human nature and the metaphysical aspects of reality itself been allowed to flourish on such a massive scale. To think that any of this is sustainable in the long term is delusion of the highest degree. Liberals are getting owned by both the left and the right at such astounding rates that it's not even funny anymore. People are finally waking up to the Kali Yuga and there is no coming back.

>>20918294
That's the whole point anon. Nothing much would change. There would be more socialist policies but really that just means America would resemble the EU more. Liberalism would remain in tact. Fukuyama cries about Republicans and Trump because he thinks they pose a serious threat (nationalism) while leftists don't since their policies can easily be integrated into liberal democracy.

>>20918430
Murukami duh

>>20918327
Rawls defended Liberalism, not post-USSR Neoliberalism. The difference is that the former follows Keynesianism as an economic model, while the core guideline of the latter is unrestrained finance capitalism.
>Popper
lol

>>20913430
Fpbp

>>20915017
The amount of cope this post radiated is life-threatening. Only an suburban burger-kiddie like you could be dengist subhuman. In fact, I don't think the dengist has caught on anywhere else. Even so, you had your 2 years of twitter fame

>>20913408
Fukuyama is actually right about everything. time will vindicate him

>>20914960
You don't think socialist movements within liberal democracies of this so-called liberal world order is a threat to the liberal world order?

>>20913408
>a living academic more refuted and disgraced
Dumbtown still thinks Peenerson is a real academic
And you got the guy with the benchpress brags on twitter
He's doing pretty well, all things considered

>>20914960
how does Fukuyama define liberalism?

>cosa lala me paso en México

>>20923332
ofc they dont, look at instances where certain aspects of socialist movements were attempted such as Sexual Revolution. What did that achieve? Sex is a commodity and we fuck way less. Good job boomers?

>>20923377
>socialist movements were attempted such as Sexual Revolution
Socialism is about the distribution of wealth and the means of production of said wealth
>>20923332
Liberalism is about which level of wealth distribution should be considered "free", and therefore have a say in how society is ran
At least know your fucking definitions

>>20914960
You think China and Russia are liberal democracies?
You may have a broad definition you're working off, far broader than I could reasonably justify to myself, but that should be a stretch for anyone, especially China.

>>20914983
They don't mean 'liberal' in the sense of cultural and economic issues, they mean 'liberal' in terms of a democratic framework and political freedoms to a certain extent. i.e. 'Liberal democracy', which is a broad idea that refers to a system/ideology rather than ideologies that operate within a system.

>>20923382
>Socialism is about the distribution of wealth and the means of production of said wealth
*sigh*
socialism has about as many different forms of definition and understanding of the terms as there are fish in the sea. Sexual Revolution is a phenomena mostly closely associated with socialism based on number of self-proclaimed "socialists" advocating for it.

>>20923436
I mean, I havent seen any (there might be some, Im just not aware of any) "right-wingers" advocating for lowering the expectations of sexual morale in 1970s, fucking America.

>>20923436
>socialism has about as many different forms of definition and understanding of the terms as there are fish in the sea
No. You're just stupid. Stupid people always think they can just whatever and others have to take them seriously. But we don't.
>>20923453
Don't feed the fucking the fucking tard just because you're as dumb as him

>>20923168
I'm on the right but I think you're on to something. The End of History isn't a prediction like
>there will be no wars again
he's just saying there's nothing better than liberalism. People might hate being bugmen and blow up the pods, ushering in another episode of history, but Der Erwige Transkid will always return.

>>20914960
The writing is on the wall my dude. Sorry you're too retarded to see it

>refuted and disgraced

If you never read him, maybe

>>20923753
He said in "Identity" (2016) that he meant "history" in the marxist/hegelian sense, "end" as in "goal" or "reason", and the title also ended in a question mark. The end of history is not an optimistic book, at all, especially when you read the last chapter, "the last man"

>>20914933
>triumphant millenarism
you obviously didn't read the book because "the last man" is downright apocalyptic

>>20913408
>Unironically, what is he thinking right now?
Gaming

>>20924271
Sounds like my kind of writer.

>>20924271
He's always been into PC building. In "The Great Disruption" he described the PC he wrote the book on

>>20924271
based old man

>>20923332
No. And neither does Fukuyama.

>>20927076
Is that because he thinks these socialistic groups have no power or because he thinks it's a false dichotomy or both?

>>20918321
Good alternative here. I cant wait for another navel gazing book screeching about republicans and how the next credit infusion from the central bank will save us once and for all. All retarded thoughts stem from his confusion thinking investments determine profits, not the other way around.

>>20914995
We integrated into chinas economy bro… this has been self admitted since Deng when people were upset at the amount of money we invested in china. They’re not the hostage here.

>>20925992
Bizzare thing to include

>>20918321
this. Fukuyama is fine and an honest intellectual, as far as they go. Krugman is just a shameless shill.

>>20913448
>liberalism to compromise and integrate a common national identity for the population
It hasn't been doing that? We hear so much about how being a particular nationality has nothing to do with blood, it has to do with "values", and those values are always suspiciously liberal values.

>>20918321
Good choice. I nominate old Noam (specifically his political works and his position on Cambodia)

>>20913408
China and Russia has challenged US hegemony but autocratic Russia dies with Putin. Give it a 10 years and we'll see what happens. China isn't really communist anymore. I forsee a synthesis between 'the Chinese system' and Liberal democracy.

If there's one thing that differs from Rome and the Qing from USA and the CCP - it's the power of the state. The military, public relations department, all areas of the the state apparatus are stronger than at any point in history. I don't see these two economic empires going anywhere, and I imagine they'll increasingly become more similar to each other as data and information technology informs politics

What’s a good book to help me discover my politics? I hate the tranny world of globohomo, but also hate the Republicans and cuckservatism, and am souring on Capitalism

>>20923332
Look what happens with Bernie Sanders and Corbyn.

>>20927852
Unironically start here - https://www.politicalcompass.org/ , then come back and post your results and I will give you some recommendations.

Note that the political compass is still kind of BS, inasmuch as there are many more axes than the two it represents, but it's a useful starting point for someone who has put no real thought into their politics.

Conversely, you can always just start with the Greeks. Once you've read Homer, Sophocles, Aeschylus, Herodotus, Thucydides, and Plato (ideally also Xenophon and Euripides and Aristotle), you can have a pretty good idea of where you stand.

>>20927865
Thanks for the follow up. I’ll check out the compass and report it’s results if it doesn’t take too long (pretty much dinner time and want to get it done before you leave)

>>20927880
No need to rush anon. /lit/ is relatively slow moving and I will check back periodically.

>>20927852
r\stupidpol

>>20927230
Leftism has already been absorbed by liberalism so he doesn’t think it’s a big threat

>>20927865
Back from dinner

>>20923462
nevermind, youre right, the sexual revolution was brough about by classical liberals and neo-cons, who else would it be...

the point of my statement was that Sexual Revolution was not instigated by conservative pro-market population of America, but rather mostly by people whos fiscal views tended to lean heavier on the government-distributed pension based economic policies. AKA overarching term coined in 18th century "SOCIALISM". I understand its hard to believe that there are people who dont reduce themselves to simply marxist understanding of the term socialism, anon.

>>20918327
>popper
>rawls

there are two factions in neolibshitting, and fukuyama is undoubtedly the better; he at least tried where popper argued in bad faith and unscientifically (by philosophical standards at that!) and rawls only summarized the trends of the time, worked on something so unrelenting as justice that he couldn't have possibly contributed anything beyond politicial science where he is so ubiquitous nowadays that you can't tell what he thought from the interpretations given to you before you ever read one of his books.

>>20924271
based.
I never thought Fukuyama was that bad. He just stands for something unviable today. It's a noble effort to defend the current order against the tides of time. Do we not honor the likes of the democrats of Weimar for the same reason?

>>20927852
Plato's Republic

>>20927973
Which book is that from?

>>20928027
I would recommend Thomas Hobbes, Oswald Spengler (the meme pick), Aristotle, and Carl Schmitt. See if you are jiving with what they write, and if so there you go. If not, come back and we can offer more alternatives.

>>20928372
Great, thanks
>>20928348
Read it back in high school and college both, may be to my benefit to read it with older eyes now.

>>20928354
His newest book >>20913448

>>20913448
What is the point of this then? He will just keep moving goalposts forever - liberalism will just turn into new governments with time and he will claim they are the same thing and so therefor his system has triumphed

>>20914995
Bro, Xi has been liquidating the Shanghai Clique after co-opting Deng's legacy while returning to a cult of personality. It is over.

>>20928027
What the actual fuck, you are literally me - anyway I went with Medievalist Monarchism with Vanguard Communist characteristics but that might not be your cup of tea

Also I back that another anon on recommending Carl Schmitt, he is just right about everything

>>20928750
That just means you’re a man of fine taste. I will give it a whirl since it has been seconded. Thanks anon

>>20915545
I think you are due.

>>20928027
I should retake this

>>20929541
I stand right about here

Anyone dumb enough to take the Political Compass test seriously should be range banned.