/lit/ - Literature

>>20905262
I got into philosophy so my fantasy and scifi writing would be more deep and less Marvel/GoT/etc.

Only if you don’t go deep enough to see how Winnicott is a retarded shadow of Lacan.

>>20905262
He didn't get you into philosophy. He got you into "philosophy".

>>20905262
Its fine for starters. His films are a great stepping stone. I liked his book on proust and it helped me get more out of swanns way.
He was a starting point for me six years ago and can't say anything terrible about him.

>>20905326
Now you get me into real philosophy anon. What should I read?

>>20905393
The copleston collection is good. Might as well start there.

>>20905393
Honestly start with the Greeks. Plato has the seeds of most of western philosophy in his works. In reading him you'll discover whether you're more interested in ontology or politics, aesthetics or logic. Plato is also the common starting point of any other philosopher you'll read. To do philosophy you have to catch up on the 2500 year old conversation, and understand why it's developed as it has. People who try to skip this inevitably end up retreading old ground.

>>20905495
>>20905495
I like that you left out ethics, the most important branch of Philosophy. The foundation of any worthwhile philosopher, anything else is just wordplay and semantics in comparison.
Otherwise your post is on point

>>20905538
He said ontology and politics, you are just nitpicking.

>>20905538
I also left out epistemology. Every branch of philosophy superficially thinks it's the most important one, then finds itself entangled with all the others further down the line. My sentence construction was not an exhaustive list but a demonstration of how different topics within philosophy can be.

This thread seems a tad better. But yeah I'm into theory for personal interest right now. What about yourself? Making supper so I'll be on later tonight.

>>20905495
I got that's the common sentiment among people who know their shit. Should I start with Plato's republic? I already have it on my Kindle and I've always heard it's a cornerstone of western philosophy.

>>20905543
>>20905564
Thing with Ethics is that you dont need to read and follow a 2500 year old conversation. You just do what is right. Any "philosopher" who doesnt do what is right is just a sophist. I'm just saying one should learn to see first lest they be guided by crossed eyes folks.

>>20905585
Some say you should start with the pre- socratics. Personally I would recommend starting with Plato's 5 dialogues, just to get a feel for him. But Plato is an easy read if you keep an open critical mind.

>>20905585
That's where I started. Give it a go.

>>20905568
I started as an ecology researcher, then got pretty shook once I grasped and connected the dots with climate change—and that was well before the oyster reefs I developed got cooked in a heat dome. I'd been casually reading philosophy since I was a kid, but got more serious about theory specifically when I realized (then saw first-hand) the catastrophe in our midst. I needed to understand the obstacles to sensible climate policy (you know, anything that would avoid extinction). That led to reading about Ideology, Capitalism, eventually Psychoanalysis, and other topics in critical theory. It's helped me get beyond abject bewilderment, and to grasp things that first appeared to me as nonsensical like why it is that knowledge doesn't afford any traction in the political sphere, and the related question of why world leaders, who you would think would have some sort of agency or sense, won't save the planet.

>>20905393
Ecclesiastes.

>>20905393
Nothing. Do you learn how to be a stonemason by reading books on it? No. You learn by apprenticing under someone else. Same with philosophy. Philosophy outside the teacher/student relationship is just a gay larp.

>>20905275
Honestly, pretty based. Good luck with the writing!

>>20905393

>>20905538
>wordplay and semantics
Are you high? Ethics is the worst part of philosophy. It's pure autism and nothing but liberalism in today's climate.

>>20905730
Any corporation that shills and pays lip service for climate change policies should not be trusted and should be bombed. Start with yourself and your community, and work your way up from there.

>>20905730
The further you get into philosophy, the less you'll want to avoid extinction.

>>20905754
>Ethics is the worst part of philosophy.
Knowing what is right and not doing it leads to despair. Therefore a philosopher must a moral person if he wants to be happy, for morality is knowing is knowing the difference between right and wrong.
A "philosopher" who doesnt care about ethics is like an obese brain surgeon. Sure you know a lot of things and an expert in your field. But nobody possessing critical thinking is ever going to take you serious.

>>20905784
You must've been filtered, because the more I get into it the more I realize there's so much of our species worth protecting and preserving.

>>20905803
Okay molynuex.

>>20905812
Nice comeback. You truly posses superior logic and rhetoric

>>20905807
https://youtu.be/Yr4ZfEf-lF0

>>20905730
I'm back now. It sounds like John Bellamy Foster would be of interest to you.

>>20905803
>But nobody possessing critical thinking is ever going to take you serious.
I posses critical thinking skill. If I'm having an ischemic event and I see a 300lb brain surgeon I'm going to take that motherfucker very seriously. Your ill-informed ass would be dead in the corner.

>>20905838
Yeah obviously since they are an expert in their field. But in every endeavor beyond that they are a joke.
Think some more before commenting next time please

>>20905730
What does philosophy have to do with climate change? It's simple: the people at the top (American politicians/businessmen, the CCP, the EU, etc.) all have their luxury bunkers in New Zealand, etc. They'll be fine and they know it. They're just having fun before the party ends.

>>20905769
>Any corporation that shills and pays lip service for climate change policies should not be trusted and should be bombed.
Agreed.
>Start with yourself and your community, and work your way up from there.
Individual and local changes aren't adequate to the problem, and we don't have enough time to change organically or bottom-up before feedback loops take the reins away from us. The individual and local actions have to be conceived as a catalyst to mass mobilization toward top-down control, re-taking and re-fashioning state apparatuses to avoid utter destruction. —Probably unleashing some new horror born of that control, but one in which, hopefully, the game isn't, so to speak, up.
>>20905784
Also agreed...
My operating principle is in a drawing a distinction between the futur, future (as what we can imagine happening from within our current horizon) and avenir, what is 'to come' (as a future unimaginable from out current horizon). I think with runaway global warming, ie extinction, from the perspective of the futur, this is a mercy. From the perspective of avenir, this is a narrowing of any window for radical change (which can only really be brought about by human subjects in organized society) in which a paradigm shift could occur that redeems human existence. A secular messianic miracle, I know, but you have to play to your outs.

>>20905863
Well, no. That value is going to transcend. For instance his field tells me something about his utility in the world. His weight tells me a small something about his character. So if I'm picking people for my society, I would take the fat surgeons over the skinny (You)s.

>>20905882
>utility in the world
Fine you can have your society of fatties, and Ill have one filled with people possessing integrity, honor and discipline.
Lets see which one last longer :^)

>>20905275
Sounds like your stories will be shit then.

>>20905900
Its not as though the surgeon's obesity is going to pass onto the beneficiaries of his ability. Its also far easier for a fat expert to become a skinny one than a skinny person to become a specialized expert.

>>20905917
>specialized expert
Found the bugman.

>>20905900
Whatever tubsy, just lose some weight already. Stop eating so many sweets, and get some exercise once in a while too!

>>20905959
Heh i (You)'ed myself
>>20905900
>>20905917
Im going leave now, because the shame and embarrassment is too much sadly.

>>20905974
I don't have high hopes for your society.

>>20905836
Yeah, definitely a good rec. I've just downloaded The Robbery of Nature. I think though that the problem capitalism poses to life on earth is already pretty clear for me, though I am interested in developing a clearer conception of that. Most of the theory I'm drawn to now is more along the lines of "know thy enemy", analyses of how capitalism exerts social control, and what contradictions are there to be prodded, the nature of its appeal and the mechanisms of its development. Additionally I'm interested in new positive visions of how to organize sustainable society while retaining what's good in culture so far (developed arts and sciences that require education for their audience which I don't think could sustain themselves in isolated local communities). And as I really see the end looming I just want to understand Hegel's ontology before I die in the water wars.

>>20905996
Thanks. If you're interested you might want to check out the NeoBrandis movement. It caught my attention this week. Sort of out of it so posts might be delayed for a while. Maybe there ought to be a general for this sort of stuff? Eh if that was the case it might get flooded like the Fischer thread is right now.

bump

I met Alan de botton in London back in the summer of 2019,, nice fella we had a very productive covesation at a philosophy meet up he set up. I was just on vacation and looking for stuff to do when I stumbled on to his meet up. All in all it was a great conversation and Alan is a great human being.

>>20905262
It’s pretty bad.

Never read him, but a lot of quite hardcore French academics praised his proust book.

This place has an elitist aversion to any and all popular writers, particularly if their mom has heard of him, but I expect to read and enjoy him at some point.

>>20905262
Alan Da Bottom! ;)