/lit/ - Literature

pyncheon meme died

>>20903351
nah. but you did. long ago. so i'm not even gonna ask you to kys

bump

>>20903347
Whenever you feel like a writer is 'ahead of his time', what you're really seeing is that their time was way more complex than your image of it would suggest. It feels claustrophobic to describe Pynchon's 1950s collegiate humour as predicting the internet. Surely something like 4chan is a dim shadow of the kinds of japes and goofs Pynchon and his kind were enjoying. It feels like when people on /lit/ judge philosophers in terms of who's based, who's a simp -- reading should be what gives you an exit hatch out of the grim sticky confines of the immediate present.

Anyway, why don't you like DFW, OP?

>>20903512
>It feels claustrophobic to describe Pynchon's 1950s collegiate humour as predicting the internet. Surely something like 4chan is a dim shadow of the kinds of japes and goofs Pynchon and his kind were enjoying.
Well I didn't go to college with Mr. Pynchon, I can only judge his writings. If you find that claustrophobic, whatever, but I think Pynchon is deliberately private so that all focus is placed on his art and not on himself/his context/whatever.
>Anyway, why don't you like DFW, OP?
Derivative. Long-winded yet inconclusive. Pynchon is similar but the spirit is quite obvious throughout his writings. Not so much with DFW who, to me, is basically like a King of Pseuds

>>20903512
Why do you like him?

>>20903533
If you say a writer is tryhard and the epitomy of brainrot, that's meaningless until you give some of your actual thoughts. Why bother asserting something if it's pure, contentless assertion? The onus is on you to back it up. I didn't assert anything -- I'm onus-free. No onus.

>>20903544
OK enjoy your davey

>>20903523
That's not a very conclusive description of your problems with DFW. And I'm not really sure what is predictive about Pynchon's goofball humour. Are we saying that this humour didn't exist back in the 50s? That he invented it?

>>20903523
>Derivative. Long-winded yet inconclusive. Derivative. Long-winded yet inconclusive. Pynchon is similar but the spirit is quite obvious throughout his writings. Not so much with DFW who, to me, is basically like a King of Pseuds
elaborate on your reasonings with examples because right now your buzzword dismissal is peak contrarian pseud shit as well

>>20903560
You see, the bottom line is that DFW is reddit and Pynchon is 4chan. This is self-explainable through the behavior of either DFW or Pynchon fans. You behave 100% like a reddit söyboy. I provide you with an answer and you keep digging, thinking you're leading the conversation as if you were an important person like Socrates. It might work like that on reddit, but not here
>>20903552
>it's just goofball humor!
there's your problem. the concept of a shadowy conspiracy and a "truer" reality behind all the nonsense is pervasive throughout Pynchon's oeuvre

>>20903347
>Why is no other post-modern writer like Pynchon?

*ahem*

>>20903669
looks cringe

imo many things.
For one thing, he actually lived and experienced life, which goes a loooong way in giving you a non-pseud foundation from which to begin writing. For another thing, he is clearly not afraid of his masters in literature, leaning into his influence in the likes of Melville, Nabokov (from whom he learned some things about writing while Nab was lecturing). He also has some preternatural ability to fuse many themes that would otherwise have nothing to do with each other into one gran overarching thematic streak. His sense of humour lifts incredible weight in allowing his stories to be entertaining rather than drowse fests. Pynchon is also incredibly knowledgeable. His facts-per-page ratio is huge for a time before the internet. Returning to the idea of theme -- Pynchon feels heavily into his themes. They colour the very sentences with which he conveys his ideas, whether it be a plot point, visual description or emotional outpour.

>>20903764
I know why Pynchon is good, I'm merely asking why, with the programmatic goals of post-modernism having been so obviously laid out shortly after WW2 (and in fact going before WW2, see Nietzsche, Joyce and Kafka), have only one or two people got it actually right while so many others ended up producing absolute cringe (see: Ginsberg)

>>20903764
I know why Pynchon is good, I'm merely asking why, with the programmatic goals of post-modernism having been so obviously laid out shortly after WW2 (and in fact going before WW2, see Nietzsche, Joyce and Kafka), have only one or two people gotten it actually right while so many others ended up producing absolute cringe (see: Ginsberg)

>>20903779
Some foax say he was approached by the CIA because of his intelligence, and he has a finger on the pulse because of that.
Personally I think he was probably a very bored, intelligent Boeng writer who liked to research everything and anything from the heavens to asshole. But I don't know enough. Someone else could provide a better opinion methinks.

>>20903608
>I provide you with an answer
no you didn't, you provided a bunch of meaningless buzzwords. that's embarrassing that you would even consider that an acceptable answer. it's peak 4chan midwit behavior. you must still be in school thinking that using flowery language with zero substance is enough to get an A on your papers. come back when you're a couple years older

>>20903764
So what, Pynchon is good because he is funny and knows a lot of things? My god what you wrote is retarded. Either go on depth and provide some useful analysis or, if instead you believe that attempting to discuss the merits of a work is futile, stop posting all this vague shit. It's making you look a bit silly, anon.

>>20903888
Peak midwit is asking for a citation to every statement. Nice trips tho.
>>20903792
Ugh. I'm telling you I don't want to hear about Pynchon. Just why every OTHER post-modernist sucks despite being so "in" (supposedly)

>>20903764
>For one thing, he actually lived and experienced life
Name a writer who didn't. Name a human who, escaped the womb, that didn't.
>>20903608
>You see, the bottom line is that DFW is reddit and Pynchon is 4chan. This is self-explainable through the behavior of either DFW or Pynchon fans. You behave 100% like a reddit söyboy. I provide you with an answer and you keep digging, thinking you're leading the conversation as if you were an important person like Socrates. It might work like that on reddit, but not here
Buzzwords. Honestly, poorer than frog poster, blog posters, and god posters is posters who can't express their thoughts with with a vocabulary that's not just degenerate slang. If you like Pynchon write a post that's at least a little more uniquely voiced; there's a myriad of words in this language.

I've neglected to tell you all that I've also started HRT, not sure if that matters or not. It may color my opinions a certain way

>>20903903
>Buzzwords
In that instance, yeah, and that was intended. I have nothing else to offer to insufferable redditors/wikipedos. Sorry.

>>20903909

>>20903902
if explaining your reasoning is too hard and the best you can muster is stringing together a bunch of synonyms for "pretentious", then this this isn't the board for you, sorry. go to /pol/ if you just want to appear smart without actually saying anything of merit.

>>20903902
Peak midwit is giving an opinion that could have been formulated simply by browsing 4chan. You haven't given any indication of having actually read anything by DFW.

>>20903928
It's not too hard, it's just off-topic, and I'm not going to participate in derailing my own thread

To reiterate. I'm merely asking why, with the programmatic goals of post-modernism having been so obviously laid out shortly after WW2 (and in fact going before WW2, see Nietzsche, Joyce and Kafka), have only one or two people gotten it actually right while so many others ended up producing absolute cringe (see: Ginsberg)

>>20903792
Hey Tom, big fan.

>>20903347
You clearly do not get "it," you do not even know what post modernism is. More importantly, you once again manage to say nothing.

>>20903900
DFWeenie buttroasted

>>20904080
projection

still waiting for the thread to get going while the pseuds leave

>>20904095
>op thinks author is pomo
>author has very little in common with pomo
>call out op on it
how is that projection?

>>20904115
>>author has very little in common with pomo
retard. how can you even say something so retarded

1. PKD had a large amount of success in his life and was absolutely not relegated to science fiction by the time he passed. His work was being adapted into some of the most influential media of all time.
2. DFW is actually fairly successful at deploying the same tropes and feelings as Pynchon especially in his earlier work before he went full maximalist and developed his own style. Broom Of The System is a masterwork.
3. Pynchon did not “predict” online humor he mostly got lucky with that one, and as his novels developed he famously includes relevant cultural events and cliches. That’s why Vineland was so good at capturing the death of the 60’s counterculture.
4. You’re a faggot.

This nigga is posting his opinions with no explanation like it’s Facebook lmao

>>20904121
Well go ahead and explain it to us.

>>20904157
>by the time he passed.
That's the key word. I said "most of his life."
>DFW
yawn
>Pynchon did not “predict” online humor he mostly got lucky with that one
epic explanation

either way, that's not what I asked.
so I guess I could summarize your shitpost with the following meme prompt:
>I don't remember asking

>>20904171
Bruh he practically invented it along with Gaddis and Burroughs

>>20904171
he can't. OP is a consummate midwit that just uses thesaurus.com all day to write paragraphs that say absolutely nothing. his only argument is "DFW is reddit" which is code for "he says things i don't like but i can't refute them because i lack the intellectual foundation to do so"

>>20904174
Man you are getting absolutely assblasted in your own thread. I can smell your frustration from the other side of the screen man—this isn’t going like you thought it would is it? Is there that feeling in the back of your head that you’re a midwit? A tiny voice telling you “you’re smarter than most people but ultimately extremely average”. How does it feel to be such a bib wearing retard? I really want to know lol

>>20904187
>he says things i don't like
for that he would have to say anything

>>20904187
Yes, I am aware of that, but I want to see him try.

>>20904207
>DFW IS LOW BROW REDDIT TRASH
> NO NO WAIT DFW DIDN’T ACTUALLY SAY ANYTHING
backpedaling faggot

>>20903347
Barth, Gaddis, Sorrentino, Theroux are all better

>>20904216
that's not backpedaling. that's stasis.

Imagine thinking you’re a channer but posting shit like it’s Twitter with a gay hot take. The guy actually expected some big response so his dopamine could rise up into his brain. It’s like a dog that wants your attention so it shits on the carpet.

>>20904177
>>20904222
I keep reminding myself to read Gaddis. Already went through Burroughs some time ago. How's Theroux? I thought he just wrote about his travels. Is there more to it? Also I wonder if he's seething that his brother is more popular

>>20904225
Wow everyone look out for this BASED AND REDPILLED(tm) big balls 4channer pointing us all in the right direction. Thank god there’s someone explaining to us how dumb redditors are and how their boards are full of a bunch of nothing. What would we do without this deep analysis. God bless you , Hero.

>>20904199
The best thing about posts like this is that there's nothing stopping midwits from making them. It's a very inclusive form of elitism.

>>20904247
put up or shut up, you're butthurt for no reason, you'd be better off utilizing this frustrated energy in a gym.

>>20903764
>he actually lived and experienced life, which goes a loooong way in giving you a non-pseud foundation from which to begin writing

this and being supernaturally well read are the #1 things in my opinion. he didn't spend any time rotting away in a university English faculty or a working at a literary review or magazine. he joined the navy and served out a tour in the Mediterranean, traveled across the country to Seattle to work a (mostly) normal job, finished V while living in Mexico City reading Borges and getting called "Pancho Villa" by the locals, and lived like a bum in whatever locale he could traveling all over the country in the ten intervening years between V and GR, immersing himself in whatever environment he could weasel into. he traveled, made friends, drank and did loads of drugs, fell in love with women and broke up a couple of marriages, listened to records, went to jazz shows and shitty beatnik parties and movies, and (obviously) spent enormous amounts of his downtime reading about a variety of subjects. he didn't write stuffy reviews of other books, he didn't take interviews or go on PR tours, and he didn't participate in the drag ass "literary industrial complex" that was too busy smelling its own farts at cocktail parties in NY to have an honest eye on the way the rest of the country and world was actually flowering the impossibly complex modern arrangement we know now. He was a crafty, sociable, and chatty person who understood how to navigate the world and not hold peoples' lots in life against them.

Pynchon's work has the flavor it does because it's written by someone who's well read, prodigiously smart, a competent writer, and well-traveled with a genuine, well-humored love of life that appreciates its variety and the way its countless faces, cultures, biomes, personalities, histories, art forms, sciences, and etc interact with each other and make the bigger, more human picture that his writing always has an eye to. Not only has he read about them, but personally experienced them in the only way that lets you write about them with any true authority.

>>20904248
You know what, I think I should just change my trip to "I make midwits mad" lol.

>>20904252
>put up or shut up
I am still waiting for you to do that.

>>20904261
Threads where I put up reach the bump limit. Everyone who seethes in these threads never puts up themselves. Curious.

>>20904259
>trip

>>20904304
Yeah, it's an unfilterable trip

>>20904314
HAHA, DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS!

>>20904296
lol, what a pathetic excuse.

I’m fairly certain Pynchon reads DFW soooooo

>/lit/ - midwit & butthurt

>>20903347
read borges

>>20904367
>it’s everyone else
>I’m not crazy you’re crazy
Sure thing kid

>>20904380
you're like a kiwifarms skinwalker

>>20904355
Infinite Jest
Inherent Vice
Bleeding Edge
Count the letters: 8+4. It's a trilogy by the same author. Who ghostwrote for who? The jury's still out on that one.

>>20904385
I don’t even know what that is because I’m heterosexual, tell me again about how Reddit is bad and about some other website nobody knows about is important. I’m listening.

>>20903347
Examples of Pynchon predicting the internet and internet humor(whatever that is)?

>>20903669
>what if pynchon but cringe and libertarian
I say this as a teen who loved illuminatus before he read pynchon. RAW isn't even a talent, Thornley (his guru) was everything he was but better

>>20903903
>Name a human who, escaped the womb, that didn't
/r9k/

>>20904187
DfWeenies are so insecure lol

>>20904752
They all await their premature death.

>>20903347
I used to love Pynchon when I was younger, but now I can't help thinking he's kind of shallow.

>>20905559
He isn't. He's in the know. Always skirting around, alluding to the truth of the matter.

>>20905632
And what’s the truth of the matter?

>>20905662
General Electric did WWII wake up sheeple

>>20905662
Begin here:
>>20876594

>>20905559
filtered

>>20903347
I was reading this:
http://shipwrecklibrary.com/the-modern-word/sl-siegel-playboy/

Is it my impression or the guy was proud of being cucked by Pynchon?

>>20903351
When did it die?

>>20903523
>King of Pseuds
This made me kek because more than half the time in the last couple weeks I've seen an absolutely abhorrent retard-tier post on this board, it was posted under Pneumatike instead of anonymoose. Nothing personal but you're probably one of the worst namefags on here desu

>>20907687
You're a DFW fan :( that's all

>>20907390
I mean, who wouldn't?

>>20903944
Gotten what right?