/lit/ - Literature

Nobody wanted war except Prussia & the stakes weren't as high as it was before

I have never read a "philosopher" and never will
My thoughts will remain my own
Get fucked debating your texts like you're secular. THINK

20903132
Not even worth a (You)

>>20903145
read your NEETzche incel it's what your peers determine you like this month

>>20903132
If you read philosophers you get to see thoughts you'd never have thought of yourself, you see criticisms of your own thoughts that are worth responding to, and you understand the debates and historical situations that make things worth thinking about.

I agree that it can be a pointless diversion to spend time arguing over philosopher's texts as if understanding the individual philosopher is the ultimate goal. But surely the reason people bother thinking in the first place is to go beyond your immediate experience and the little cell of yourself in order to expand your knowledge of and perception of the world. Reading philosophy can be a fun and useful tool to achieve that.

>>20903089
Blood and iron IS slave morality because it substitutes yet another abstract, imaginary 'ultimate value' for God, like patriotism/national honor/imperial expansion or whatever. Whether you subordinate yourself to 'divine law' or some kind of nationalism doesnt matter in essence, only on surface

>>20903159
>I agree that it can be a pointless diversion to spend time arguing over philosopher's texts as if understanding the individual philosopher is the ultimate goal.
I agree with everything you said and my initial post was a low-effort shitpost. the modern idea of philosophy seems to be caught up in determining which perspective is "correct". there is always something to be gained from trying to understand how and why a person thinks something, and what lead to that belief of theirs.

>>20903129
>Nobody wanted war except Prussia
Lol retard moment.

>>20903089
He just hated German nationalism.

For Nietzsche the aristocracy has the highest value of all parts of a society such that the worth of each should he measured by this class and this class alone. Nationalism demands the elite subordinate themselves to the state whereas as Nietzsche believe the state ought to serve its elite. The nation is a herd and great individuals must be protected from the herd not subjected to it.

nietzsche is such a fucking embarassment

>>20903089
He called Bismarck's politics "petty politics," not power politics. Read pic related if Nietzsche himself is too difficult for you.

>>20903089
source by nietzsche please.

>>20903190
>whereas as Nietzsche believe the state ought to serve its elite.

so Nietzsche would be the kind of person who would support third world dictatorships?

>>20903089
Source? Slave morality isn't a synonym for things Nietzsche doesn't like, so the fact that he disliked Bismark isn't enough.

>>20903129
umm who declared war?

>>20903089
He vaguely resembles Manly P. Hall from that angle.

>>20903089
Just because he had some great ideas doesn't mean he constantly pissed gold.

>>20904806
no, he pissed syphilitic pus

>>20903129
it was the 19th fucking century, literally every nation worth a damn want to kick each other's teeth in, everyone wanted war

name 3 things that aren't slave morality right now

>>20903167
What the fuck are you talking about? Germany just wanted more power. The nationalist shit is just to motivate the slaves.

>>20906036
Hitler really believed his own bullshit along with the rest. And even then it doesn't really excuse it because his methods were ultimately stupid and disastrous for everyone.

>>20906019
master morality
the ubermensch
deez nutz

>>20906184
THIS guy reads Nietzsche.

>>20903089
If you're not taking someone seriously, you're the one that's being fooled.

>>20903190
>The nation is a herd and great individuals must be protected from the herd not subjected to it.
Nietzsche really was a larper. Being a sickly man he escaped to this day dream where he could imagine being a god that depends on no one. And then with no hint of irony criticize others like Plato for escaping into a ideal dream world.
The other issue with this view is that power is clearly relational. In order to be above someone you must be recognized by that someone as being above. Power is only power in so far as others recognize it. Why else have major leaders since the dawn of civilization imprint their faces on currency?
The issue with Nietzsche's formulation is that the divide between individual v.s herd has never existed. Great individuals need an audience in order to be great. Otherwise they would just be some nobody. If Nietzsche truly believed in this ideal of solitary greatness, then there would be no reason for him to share his writing at all.

>>20907679
You've never read Nietzsche

>>20907690
I read his wikipedia article, which was more than enough.

>>20903173
Nobody wanted war
If everyone else was okay with it, they would've militarized heavily not just Prussia
Prussia studied the previous war heavily while others didn't hence they were the losers that wanted to feel like winners while nobody else gave 2 shits
Kill yourself for being a worthless fucking nigger

>>20903173
Also pic related is you. Absolutely of no value

>>20907690
About the reply I expect from Nietzsche fan boys. Very similar to the Marxists. Whenever you criticize them their go to is to assert you haven't read him.
I have read BG&E, Genealogy of Morals, and Truth and Lies in a non-moral sense.
Nietzsche has a few interesting ideas but most of his writing is flowery romantic slop.
I will reiterate my criticism. Nietzsche heavily idealizes a kind of power that is fundamentally solitary and above the crowd. Power which exists for itself. The overman crafting his own ideals like an artist.
My criticism of this notion is simple. I do not reject his notion that we all seek power, but that power is always relational. Always necessitates and involves the perceptions of other people. Power can not exist purely in itself. Individuals are not really individual but rather composite.

>>20907679
>>20907836
>The issue with Nietzsche's formulation is that the divide between individual v.s herd has never existed. Great individuals need an audience in order to be great. Otherwise they would just be some nobody. If Nietzsche truly believed in this ideal of solitary greatness, then there would be no reason for him to share his writing at all.
Literally addressed in Flies of the Market Place chapter of Thus Spake Zarathustra, which you of course didn't read.

>>20907729
Fuck off.

>>20907690
this fucking bait is in EVERY neetche thread

>>20906036
How is that a contradiction? Yes, the powerhungry elite sold yet another brand of slave morality to the rabble. Except their own obsession with 'power' was a variation of it too, imperialism is always pathetic and was ridiculed by Nietzsche

>>20907679
>Power is only power in so far as others recognize it.
>If you deadlift 500 pounds in your home gym it doesn't count, only if it is in full view of cardiobunny sluts
Nice reasoning bro.

>>20903089
Where did he call it that? Sounds like bs

>>20903167
Slave morality has zero to do with accepting laws and everything to do with saying being weak and ugly are good and strong and alluring are bad

>>20903967
>>20904484
OP has none and not even good at faking Nietzsche

>>20908086
Oh, it's retarded roider. I think you mistyped /fit/

>>20908099
>zero to do with accepting laws and everything to do with saying being weak and ugly are good and strong and alluring are bad
truly brainlet take. Slave/master morality has obviously to do with whether one accepts some outside scale of values and integrates himself into it vs. forges ones own scale, or rather doesnt even give a shit about social approval/integration

>>20908174
Double brainlet take. Slave morality is subversion of existing tables of values.

>>20907679
>Great individuals need an audience in order to be great. Otherwise they would just be some nobody.
cool Fe u got there. yet unfortunately my powerful Fi needs not the masses' recognition, im supreme on my own, if the "gods" can be such, i too can.
>Nietzsche really was a larper.
the final redpill is everyone larps and should anyway, its how we overcome our little puny selves.

>>20907679
>the divide between individual v.s herd has never existed
lmao

>>20908099
>being weak and ugly are good and strong and alluring are bad
Being a violent brute is weak and ugly.

>>20908300
>my powerful Fi needs not the masses' recognition, im supreme on my own
Lol okay, this is a cope. Again why did Nietzsche write and share his writing at all if that's true. Perhaps because he wanted others to recognize his ideas? We are all social creatures and all dependent on one another in some fashion. We all want others to recognize us. You can pretend you don't need others, don't want recognition from them, and that you are "supreme on your own", but this really just amounts to delusion. Even this want to be above the masses is really a desire for others to recognize you as above the masses. If no one else existed there would be no one to be above. The desire to be above, to be a supreme solitary being, is a desire that ironically still depends upon others perception.

>>20909063
>Nietzsche wrote philosophy for recognition
peak /lit/

>>20908086
Sure, there's raw physical power. What I meant by power though was being above someone else, having sway over others. You may have the power to deadlift 500lb but even so it's still not an activity you do only for yourself. Else why brag about it online?

>>20909084
Yes. I'm not saying recognituon is the only desire, but it's definitely part of the motivation to share ones writing as it is with all authors. You want to share your odeas with others. If he didn't care at all about recongition, he would have just burned his writing as soon as he wrote it.

>>20909084
Yes, just like anyone who publishes anything. Nietzsche was actually a perfectly nice and sociable chap before he went insane.

>>20909120
>before he went insane
You mean before he lost the ability to write?

>>20909099
I don't understand why you bring your idea of Nietzsche's motivations into the discussion at all. It's trite. It's intellectually dishonest.
Nietzsche didn't idealize perpetually living as a hermit in solitude. Did you not read literally second page of Zarathustra?
He posited that all great things are created away from 'flies of the market place', criticizing those who desire recognition as 'great actors'. Like Zarathustra came down from the mountain, so too shall the great creator come back from the solitude to share the ripe fruit of his work.

Do you genuinely want to learn or are you here just to stroke your ego? Genuine question, because you don't get his work and that's a great shame. You can do better, but right now you're just a midwit on display.

>>20908086
Boy, your muscles are the sign of power that others recognize. You don't train just for strength like those mountain climbers that still look dyel, you train for hypertrophy.

>>20909476
>He posited that all great things are created away from 'flies of the market place', criticizing those who desire recognition as 'great actors'. Like Zarathustra came down from the mountain, so too shall the great creator come back from the solitude to share the ripe fruit of his work.
Right, and I am pointing out the hypocrisy of criticizing those that want recognition while writing at all. Everyone wants recognition.
It's completely natural to seek recognition from others. I reject entirely the formulation of herd v.s individual. It's romantic tripe nonsense. The herd does not exist in reality. There are just people: different groups and individuals all with their own set of complicated motivations.
>I don't understand why you bring your idea of Nietzsche's motivations into the discussion at all. It's trite. It's intellectually dishonest.
Lol like Nietzsche doesn't do the exact same to other philosophers. I get it though. It's fine when your idol does it apparently.

>>20909752
>It's fine when your idol does it apparently.
That answers my question, zoomer.

>>20909752
Also lmao at
>you don't get his work
This is always the go to of people that can't think for themselves. You retards are like the Christians with their precious scripture. "NOOOOOOOOO you cant criticize Christianity until you have read 8 trillion theologians". And for you Nietzsche fags any time anyone criticizes him they must just not get him or haven't read close enough.

>>20909763
You're not criticizing Nietzsche. All you're doing is vomiting your midwit ideas that you attribute to Nietzsche, wasting your time and time of everyone else itt.

>>20909304
Not sure what you mean, he very much went nuts, all contemp accounts paint a clear picture of that. He kept writing little notes throughout

>>20909798
>All you're doing is vomiting your midwit ideas that you attribute to Nietzsche, wasting your time and time of everyone else itt.
More non-responses.
I could easily re-summarize the main ideas in every book I've read by him. I understand him fine. He's midwit philosopher with a legion of resentful midwits defending him. Simple as

>>20905105
Decent to good.

>>20907791
What war are you talking about you fucking idiot?

>>20910222
>durr what war
Holy shit
Learn some history you fucking mutt
Otherwise don't post here, absolute ignorant retard. Don't even pretend to be remotely intelligent for one second because that is the most retarded question i've ever witnessed. Fucking pozzed faggot, end your life asap

>>20903089
Nietzsche was literally just a contrarian with no consistent world view. He'd find a way to call anything slave morality unless it's obscure enough that no one cares, then he might approve. Being pinned down to any actual position for any length of time would be a betrayal of muh difference muh flux muh heraclitus.

>>20909816
>He kept writing little notes throughout
He wrote a handful of letters on the first couple days it happened, but after that, he stopped writing. It doesn't make sense to say he was "perfectly nice and sociable" before his mental collapse when his mental collapse literally caused him to stop writing for the remaining 10-11 years of his life.

>>20907879
You reek of slave morality.

>>20911241
Still sounds like a non sequitur. I meant that he wasn't living some kind of lonely monk on a mountain peak larp but had friends, a social circle etc. Therefore theres no reason to suppose he was beyond any merely human desire like recognition.

>sees a horse being hit
>cries
>pisses and shids his pants

>>20903168
>the modern idea of philosophy seems to be caught up in determining which perspective is "correct"
It's a symptom of people who don't read philosophy, but emotionally latch onto a philosopher they chose out of aestethic reasons to give them a sense of identity and then rabidly defend him everytime the smalles criticism is raised. This entire board behaves like this.

>>20910783
I ask because your description is so completely wrong that it couldn't possibly be the Franco-Prussian war.

>>20913048
Blood and Iron is the Franco Prussian War

>>20913048
Severe retard