/lit/ - Literature

Both of them are smarter than you

>>20888763
That's true, although Brothers Karamazov is still a great book and you shouldn't find copes to not read Dostoevsky, because BK is objectively a great novel (although not the greatest).
Same case with War and Peace.
The rest of their oeuvres are redundant, though.

>>20888770
fpbp

>>20888763
filtered by Dostoevsky of all authors, lmao

>>20888763
Correct. A claptrap journalist and a slapdash comedian.

>>20888763

I read Notes because of a Peterson video
Loved it so much, I read it again

>>20888763
People who obsess over who's a real intellectual and who is a pseud usually are retarded (and thus pseud themselves)
Dosto is a great author, and you're retarded.

>>20888763
Who are you quoting?

>>20888804
>Dosto is a great author
He's not, actually.

>>20888770
haha no both of them are grifters

Imagine being such a tranny you start hating Dostoyevsky lol

>>20888770
Fridman is a grifter carried by his guests.
Peterson used to be really smart but benzos and the libs have mindbroken him

>>20888778
>>20888867
Trying too hard.

>>20888888
digits of infinity
sextuplets of TRUTH

>>20888888
Wasted

>>20888888
Wasted digits. Here's how you do sixes >>/lit/thread/S19771510#p19777777

>>20888888
Dostoevsky pseuds absolutely fucking pilfered

Smerdyakov is literally me

>>20888900
>>20888906
L + ratio + cope + seethe + dilate.

>I'm so heckling religious bro! Also we need a fascist monarchy. Fuck the west.
Yeah dostofags are clueless, on the other hand his novels are entertaining

>>20888936
>Yeah dostofags are clueless, on the other hand his novels are entertaining
+1

>>20888936
His novels would be decent if you cut 3-400 pages of preaching from each one of them.

>>20888763
>old /lit/ loved Dostoevsky
>nu-/lit/ hates him
God I hate young people

>>20888945
they don't have that much preaching in them, it's more that the melodrama has a preachy undertone, but you can just ignore it and appreciate the psychology

>>20888867
Typical dostofag
>you are a tranny because you are not a reactionary convert to orthodoxy

>>20888954
Typical russian shill*

>>20888948
Nice try newfriend, but Dostofags are a result of election tourists and unironic Peterson fans. Any good reader would balk at the Dosto circlejerk that goes on here.

>>20888984
Are you retarded? Dostoevsky was a famous author long before Peterson became well known.

>>20888984
Dosto has always been revered on lit until recently. Idk if it's due to the war in Ukraine or the increase of leftists. Also you should try actually reading Dosto before bashing him.

No matter what ideology finds itself at the helm of the US Empire, the citizens must be made to be Russophobic. It’s supremely funny how the Russophobe/phile factions flip-flop depending on which has institutional power at the time

>>20888770
Fpbp

>>20889021
I have. Dead House and Demons are his only solid books, and even those two are really pushing it.

kek I love how much Dosto makes newfags seethe. kind of sad at the same time though

>>20888763
Was James Joyce a non-reader?

>I identify with the pawn shop owner

When are you guys going to accept that he was right about literally fucking everything?

Dostoyevsky has a good psychology insight, but real russian lit enjoyers go for my nigga Pushkin or Mayakovsky or even Nabokov's works in russian.
Real authors are virtuozos of style.

>>20888850
Everybody's a grifter these days. Unironically.
>>20888880
And this.

Russia number 1
Z

>>20888954
>implying you have to hold the same moral sentiments as an author to appreciate their work.
Part of the beauty of TBK is Dosto providing a wealth of different theological/moral insights, and although he implicitly endorses one over of the others, he writes all the manifold of belief systems articulately and intricately enough to still show their plausibility and the potential truths they contain.

>>20888763
I turned off that interview after about 5 minutes.
So much word salad.

>>20888763
>>20889644
>“Non-Russian readers do not realize two things: that not all Russians love Dostoevsky as much as Americans do, and that most of those Russians who do, venerate him as a mystic and not as an artist. He was a prophet, a claptrap journalist and a slapdash comedian. I admit that some of his scenes, some of his tremendous farcical rows are extraordinarily amusing. But his sensitive murderers and soulful prostitutes are not to be endured for one moment—by this reader anyway.”
>“Dostoevsky's lack of taste, his monotonous dealings with persons suffering with pre-Freudian complexes, the way he has of wallowing in the tragic misadventures of human English words expressing several, although by no means all, aspects of poshlost are, for instance, ”cheap,” ”sham,” ”smutty,” ”highfalutin,” ”in bad taste.” dignity – all this is difficult to admire. I do not like this trick his characters have of ”sinning their way to Jesus” or, as a Russian author, Ivan Bunin, put it more bluntly, ”spilling Jesus all over the place.””

>>20889727
What non-russians don't understand is that Russians need suffering. Suffering gives meaning to things. Peaceful life is meaningless in that sort of mentality.

>>20888763
agreed, dosto was a christcuck and his prose is mediocre and his philosophy superceded by any token existentialist or modernist

>>20888763
>I identified with Prince Myshkin
Do people do this? I found him to be quite pathetic in all honesty. I found his 'Christian' compassion to be more of a self Indulgent kind of preening than anything. He's actually not terribly compassionate at all, more consciously ignorant of other people's flaws. He let's people take advantage of him over and over, choosing to ignore the abuse out of an indulgent need to view himself as some sort of a misplaced Christ figure. I find there's very redeeming in such a personality, and the title is more than apt.

>>20888770
Op is probably a retard, but im more intelligent than both of them (and you obviously) and I agree with him. So who is the chump now, chumpie?

>>20888763
I can't stand Peterson. There should be no place for him in a literature board.

>>20889727
>I can't enjoy music.
Why would you even consider the taste of such a Bugman?
>>20888763
I reckon you don't listen to Bach either.

yes.

>>20888954
yes.

>>20889878
Dilate

>>20888763
Great thinker, not a great author

Ok but Vanya is literally me

Jew Yidman has probably a 90 IQ and Jordan Peterson probably has around 105. No surprise he likes midwit trash.

>>20889727
One senses that Nabokov resented Dostoyevsky for his success. If Nabokov found all all those things of Dostoyevsky so vile why did he make his own attempt and fail? The bitterness he felt over his personal failure clouded his judgment.

You know which book I’m talking about.

>>20890185
lol yeah Peterson only has a slightly higher IQ than you.

Another Nabokovfag having a meltdown

>>20890854
Anyone who thinks a novel is the greatest work of art of all time cannot have higher than a 120 IQ and that is being generous.

>Turgenev and Goncharov
Both comfier than Dostoyevsky
>Bely's Petersburg
Better than anything Dostoyevsky wrote in essence and style
>Tolstoy
His wrangling with Christianity did more to preserve it than Dostoyevsky's autitic screechy acceptance
>Chekhov
Mogging the compulsive gambler in life and on paper

and so one and so on, a writer for people who can't have fun and hate life.

>>20889021
During the shutdown we were inundated with people that would derail every thread they could to Dostoevsky or the bible, so we came to hate them because they made it impossible to discuss anything else.

>>20888763
Peterson is/was really smart, but either he fried his brain or decided to completely sell out. How anyone can defend him joining that jew owned propaganda mill, I have no idea.

>>20891052
That’s always been the point. He explicitly stated early on that his goal was to take the wind out of the sails of the alt-right. He does this by redirecting young male rage and resentment towards self-help and away from politics, he just wants to live in a traditional 1990s society

>>20888888
Checked!

>>20888773

what is the greatest novel then?

>>20889644
He was wrong about henry james

>>20891009
apparently you have never read him because a lot of his major works are extremely life affirming

>>20891574
Moby Dick or Gravity's Rainbow

>>20888763
Dostoevski's lack of taste, his monotonous dealings with persons suffering with pre-Freudian complexes, the way he has of wallowing in the tragic misadventures of human dignity—all this is difficult to admire. I do not like this trick his characters have of "sinning their way to Jesus" or, as a Russian author Ivan Bunin put it more bluntly, "spilling Jesus all over the place

>>20892009
>>20889727
what's up with pseuds clinging to this.
Dostoevsky is a hack "artist" in general (and not a philosopher in the slightest) but he did write BK and you should read it you adhd-riddled zoomers.
>>20889662
Pushkin sucks. Russians can't create art (or anything, for that matter) in general.

someone automatically associating dostoyevsky with internet personalities is an immediate indicator that they are low IQ and will have nothing that isn't utterly worthless to say

>>20889644
Already did. Aesthetics above all.

>>20892020
>Dostoevsky is a hack "artist" in general (and not a philosopher in the slightest) but he did write BK and you should read it you adhd-riddled zoomers.
I read it and it fits EXACTLY the statement Nabokov made.

>>20889644
>waaah his prose arent purple enough to hold my poor attention span and his sentiment is threatening and makes me uncomfortable because im a subhuman freak degenerate

this guy is hilariously pathetic, i cant believe people actually respect him lmao

>>20892062
Well, pre-Freudian is the key word, Dosto was writing with quite a complex knowledge of human psychology at a time when hysteria was still a valid diagnosis with the treatment prescribed being isolation, beating or dildoing.

>>20888763
I hate that liking Dostoevsky makes some faggots immediately assume I'm a Memerson retard (or whoever the guy on the left is)

>>20892167
If you're surrounded by fags maybe you should wonder why

>>20888804
Hes a cheap sensationalist and a slapdash comedian. (I haven't actually read him btw, a reliable source told me)

>>20892167
>I CARE SO MUCH ABOUT THE OPINIONS OF DELUSIONAL LEFTISTS WHO ARE DOING THIS INTENTIONALLY TO ANTAGONIZE ME


if this isnt a false flag, you are probably the most pathetic poster in this whole thread

>>20889873
I'm more intelligent than you though and I say that your mother is a prostitute.

>talks about the concept of matter
>bursts out into tears
Kek

>>20888763
>>I identified with Prince Myshkin
>>That's so interesting bro, I identified more with Raskolnikov

redditors always do this not only with Dostoevsky
>Dude I'm such an Ivan through and through
lmao

>>20892467
Dostoevsky is Reddit. An author to namedrop for people who want to appear as if they "read books" when in reality they hate it. That's why they pull the "omg he's the greatest ever no one comes close"; it's a cope, an excuse not to read.

>>20888763
The issue with Dostoevsky is that he is an incredibly spooked man and as such his literary works are filled to the brim with the cheapest of ideological dreck. The "man" doesn't even try to hide it, it is as if he is yearning to insult the reader's intelligence. You indeed have to have some sort of daddy issues if you find Dostoevsky's works appealing.

Dostoevsky wrote great monologues and dialogues in his novels.
I like Myshkin monologue on guillotine
It's like Camus' essay on the death penalty
Brother Karamazov’s dialogues
Existentialists have similar conversations
Raskolnikov reflexions on trembling creatures and having the right
Nietzsche said similar things about the morality of masters and slaves

>>20893686
Indeed.
>>20893755
They're terrible.

>>20888763
Dostoevsky is a good author who has written great things in spite of his neurotic personality. One of the most interesting parts of reading his work is interpreting what the flaws and idiosyncracies imply about him as a person. I wouldn't expect the average /lit/ user to be capable of reading that deeply, though.

>>20888763
>judging writers by their cringiest fans
ngmi

Dosto was a Russian Dickens who went quite a bit deeper psychologically but lacked the humor. Nor more no less. His shorter works are underappreciated

>>20889727
>>20889644
This gets better when you realize that it was Nabokov's grandfather who sent Dostoevsky to Gulag.

>>20892057
Crime and Punishment is a book about the psyche of an entire city, I don't know what can be more aesthetic than that.

>>20889696
Based. Time is a flat circle.

Tolstoy died with Brothers Karamazov on his nightstand.

>>20888763
>read multiple 800+ page tomes, one being what tolstoy chose to read before he died
>not a reader

>>20888763
imagine dismissing one of the greatest authors of all time because some random influencers online happen to also like him. You probably still think 4chan is a super secret club as well you absolute fucking retard

>>20888763
"Dostoevksy is the man more than any other who has created modern prose, and intensified it to its present-day pitch. It was his explosive power which shattered the Victorian novel with its simpering maidens and ordered commonplaces; books which were without imagination or violence. I know that some people think he was fantastic, mad even, but the motives he employed in his work, violence and desire, are the very breath of literature. Much as we know has been made of his sentence to execution, which was commuted as he was waiting for his turn to be shot, and of his subsequent four years' imprisonment in Siberia. But those events did not form his temperament though they may have intensified it, for he was always enamoured of violence, which makes him so modern. Also it made him distasteful to many of his contemporaries, Turgeniev for instance, who hated violence. Tolstoy admired him but he thought that he had little artistic accomplishment or mind. Yet, as he said, 'he admired his heart', a criticism which contains a great deal of truth, for though his characters do act extravagantly, madly, almost, still their basis is firm enough underneath... The Brothers Karamazov... made a deep impression on me... he created some unforgettable scenes [detail]... Madness you may call it, but therein may be the secret of his genius... I prefer the word exaltation, exaltation which can merge into madness, perhaps. In fact all great men have had that vein in them; it was the source of their greatness; the reasonable man achieves nothing."

James Joyce

Shatov and I are two of soul.

>>20888763
4chan just hates anything popular, don’t they? Being a contrarian doesn’t make you smart. “I’m not like the other girls…”

>>20888763
I read Tolstoy like a little girl and I identify with Levin.

>>20889727
>with pre-Freudian complexes
Is this supossed to be a diss?

>>20888936
>his novels are entertaining

Hard, hard, HARD disagree.

>>20888850
Lex is actually very intelligent he is Jewish ya know

>>20891992
What'd he say about Henry James?

>>20890900
Why can't it be?

>>20888880
>Peterson used to be really smart
No, he never was. He sounded like the waffling lefty professors talking about nothing he's criticised. Psych + jungian bullshitting has been an academic hiding spot for non achievers for decades, this nigger is exactly like that only he manages to fool his own audience into thinking the material is diametrically opposite what it is. They think they're rebelling by delving into this symbolic horseshit.
It's no better that his critics talk like he's far right and his wash your penis top 10 list book is some threat to democracy. It's an ongoing embarrassment from everyone involved.

>>20888888
Based sextuplets of truth. Fuck Dostoevsky. Fuck his shit potatonigger russian holodomor books

>>20888906
lmao stupid fucking /pol/ christcucks have ruined all boards. All I'm seeing on this board are morons who moan about materialism, scientism and atheism. Kill yourselves, faggots. At least ꜱoyence gave us computers. Christcuckery gives us annoying bastards who tell everyone to "go find god". Shut the fuck up, you stupid bastards. Go find a noose or a gun.

>>20897168
JP is a cyberdaddy, just like Sam Hyde, Alex Jones, etc.
>>20888880
Fridman is a grifter, JP is a grifter. These are grifters who want to LARP as cyberdaddies and "great thinkers", but they are simply pseuds who know how to talk shit, how to sound smart, and all of them have that pseud look on their faces. See OP's pic:
>>20888763
Look at their faces. Pure pseud, pure midwit.
You know what's missing? Them sucking on a pipe, LARPing as Sherlock Holmes and speaking in a posh accent. But all that shit is just a big LARP.

>>20888888
I BOW DOWN

Dostoevsky is the father of modern leftism.
>sentimentality
>weepy victim
>thinks poverty is good, rich bad
>science isn't real

I'm reading The Idiot, on the last 50 pages.

I gotta say, this fucking novel REALLY deceived me, because I thought I was reading something GOOD when Myshkin is talking about Marie, his monologue about the guillotine, and the following scenes where he gets punched in the face and sees 100k burn while everyone goes nuts is funny/alright, but it's in Pavlosk where the novel becomes PAINFUL.

I FUCKING HATE IT.

>Bunch of kids come in to insult Myshkin and write articles for communist newspapers but somehow it's ok
>FUCKING IPPOLIT I FUCKING HATE IPOLLIT THIS ENTITLED FAGGOT
>Allusions to Nastassia Filipovna living with Myshkin but not a SINGLE paragraph dedicated to what happened
>Fucking infuriating extended scenes with Liebediev, this fucking disgusting rat of a person that does nothing but fuck with Myshkin for no reason
>ONE SCENE where Myshkin reunites with Nastassia Filipovna and Rogozhin after the previous petersburg fiasco
>FUCKING AGALYA I FUCKING HATE THIS INSUFFERABLE CUNT OF A PERSON

And to make matters worse, I'm slogging through a SHITTY TRANSLATION that extended the novel's original 600 or so pages TO 800.

I'M 50 PAGES LEFT AND WHEN DOES IT GET GOOD?

>>20897722
>Myshkin is talking about Marie
Yeha that's what got me hooked into reading Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky and reading in general this year.

Just randomly decided to read this book because it was on my kindle and the Marie chapter got me hooked. Which translation are you reading? Good chunk of the middle felt like nothing happened

>>20897758
I'm reading portuguese because I felt like I needed to read something by the translator who happens to be a good brazilian writer (or so I'm led to believe)

Sure wish I went with something in english because this one I have is a complete disaster. overly flourished and horribly padded, obtuse meanings and weird descriptions making what are supposed to be decisive interactions or even moments of action absolutely incomprehensible so every now and then I'm looking up a plot synopsis and saying "oh so that's what happened"
>Totsky absolutely pounding Nastassia every night ever since he realized she was hot
>Rogozhin pulling a knife on Myshkin before he has a fit
>The entire fucking dialog between Myshkin and Keller/burdovsky/Ippolit that makes no fucking sense
>Myshkin having another fit at the party
Really, it seems to me that this was horribly rushed because the translator probably needed some money and years of grammatical reforms destroyed it.

>>20897758
I read War and Peace this year, and Marie's story actually moved me a little. I had already read Anna Karenin and Doctor Zhivago so I thought another Russian novel was a nobrainer. Guess I wasn't ready for Dostoyevsky. C&P is next, too.

>>20895577
No one gives a fuck about Dickens, anglocucks really think someone else cares about their mediocre writer

It's really remarkable how dumb this board is. Almost every single poster is some version of a brainwashed commie retard complaining about "chuds".
You will never be intellectuals, you will never contribute to any subject.

>>20889021
>increase of leftists

More than likely CIA shills

>>20889021
/lit/ used to have more left wing anons than it does now. You’ve probably only been here for a year or so

>Pre-Freudian

So not neurotic, managerial, or scientific sterlization of the human spirit?

>>20897822
>Anna Karenin
proof that Nabokov (whom i admire) could also be a dumb fuck when he insisted thats how it must be translated. Its a story about Russians in Russia, why would one anglicize the naming conventions?

>>20897948

>>20897916
Holy seethe. go get Dickensed, it will tickle your funnybone

>>20898220
I accidentally dropped an a, sorry

>>20889012
Kinda weird how you can get on the top 100 books of the year with only 2 votes