/lit/ - Literature

>>20888203
Bump

>>20888568
Don't bump this horseshit.

>>20888203
Adolf Eichmann confessions is all you need to destroy holocaust revisionism, there is no doubt whatsoever that the holocaust happened

>>20888578
Why are you mad? OP doesn't seem to be asking anything in bad faith.

>>20888652
Not 'siding' anywhere but that's an absolutely retarded and biased image written by someone who just wants to 'own the Fash'. To say Irving just 'conned' his way into being a respected historian, skim over half his career and the influence he's had, is just ridiculous.

>>20888667
Of course he fucking is. Like this board needs yet another "IS THE HOLOCAUST A JOO CONSPIRACY????" post.

>>20888692
>"IS THE HOLOCAUST A JOO CONSPIRACY????"
OP is asking exactly the opposite though.

>>20888704
The world would be improved if you died.

>>20888680
He's a joke and he's not a real historian, the holocaust happened, holocaust revisionism is a neo nazi belief, fascists are trash, the end

>>20888706
I don't see why would you just post such an irrational emotional response only to announce to the entire world how utterly shaken and distressed you are for no good reason.

I'm basically just asking for a book that addresses revisionist arguments

Actually the question is not if it happened or not but if any non-jew should care about it or not.

>>20888714
Fuck off.

>>20888714
The nazis were not fascists, but in fact hegelian monarchists

>>20888203
>Nor there being any explicit call for a large scale murder of Jews in any of his public or provate writings or speeches.
1939-01-30 Reichstag speech.

Lowwit
>The Holocaust happened

Midwit
>The Holocaust never happened

Highwit
>The Holocaust never happened, but it should have

Gigabrain
>The Holocaust happened, and it should again

>>20888578
lol

>>20888652
>Adolf Eichmann confessions is all you need to destroy holocaust revisionism, there is no doubt whatsoever that the holocaust happened
lol

>>20888203
Another /pol/ thread.

>>20890827
Fuck off.

>>20888652
>You want to read this guy who says the Gulf of Tonkin incident was a false flag? Well I have it on good authority that one of the main guys who claims this once shit his pants. Also, he failed fourth grade creative writing. Also, his first girlfriend said he cried watching Aladdin.
Why do they always do this. Just shut the fuck up and get to the point, I get it, Hitler was a pants shitter and Goebbels went too long without changing his pillowcase, I don't care you bunch of women. Fucking hell

imagine actually reading 32 volumes of ‘holocaust handbooks’

>>20888203
cool it with the anti semitism.

>>20888652
How to read in current year:
>He’s not a historian!
This probably means he’s right about everything he’s said.

>>20888203
>Adolf Hitler's Speech at the Berlin Sportpalast (30 January 1942)
>we say that the war will not end as the Jews imagine it will, namely, with the uprooting of the Aryans, but the result of this war will be the complete annihilation of the Jews.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_Speech_at_the_Berlin_Sportpalast_(30_January_1942)
Why did he say that? I thought he wanted to send the Jews to live on a butterfly farm in Madagascar, but a hundred thousand of them died of typhus before he could!
Guys… was Hitler the first holohoaxer?

>>20890410 this


>>20888714
>>20888652

>>20890981
>>https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_Speech_at_the_Berlin_Sportpalast_(30_January_1942)
lol!

>>20888652
>Eichmann
>a show trial held on Mossad Television in the 1960s
the boomer generation fucking bought this

>>20890642
>publicly announce they're gonna do it
>go back and destroy the evidence so no one thinks they did it
pick one, Shlomo

>>20890832

>>20888203
Not much to debate here. Only purposefully ignorant chuds would deny the holocaust. Debating them is like debating a flat earther. This is an event that tens of millions of people in some way or another have had
contact with. These people are mostly dead or in their last years of life. History can be forgotten very easily if we do not remember it. This always make me remember the story of how Romans (citizens of the City of Rome) in 7th and 8th century were completely clueless as to what was the function of the ancient buildings in their city. In a matter of a few hundred years of negligence they speculated that the colosseum was a place where ancient Romans did necromancy or worshipped their gods.

It's amazing how such historic places or events can totally disapear from the common memory in just a few hundred years. This is a danger which can happen today and in some sense it is happening. Only the generation of people living in such a time can truly experience such events. As generations goes on, it's like a broken telephone and some people start doubting.

>>20891201
You are gaslit by hollywood entertainment products

>>20891201
>deny the holocaust
Is the holocaust an absolute truth that cannot be refuted, only denied? If so, how is that the case? If not, what you have written here is meaningless.

>>20891201
>It's amazing how such historic places or events can totally disapear from the common memory in just a few hundred years. This is a danger which can happen today and in some sense it is happening. Only the generation of people living in such a time can truly experience such events. As generations goes on, it's like a broken telephone and some people start doubting.
Yes, how terrifying that people would question the validity of an event.

>>20891057
Why pick one? Both are historical facts

>>20891309
So the only reason there could be no evidence is because it was destroyed and this is a historical fact? How convenient.

>>20888714
Yeah nevermind all his historical work before he became a denier you retard.

>>20888652
>first point is shitting on him for supporting mosley
Mosley was literally a labour party leader

>>20888714
david irving was certainly not a joke, before he sperged out he was broadly known as the best authority in the anglosphere on germany in ww2
youre not doing yourself any favors by flat out lying

>>20891309
it's a secret or it's not

>>20888819
Looks like you're not getting that, anon. I'd check on Goodreads.

>>20888203
Bump.

>>20888203
I've never heard of the holocaust handbook series but it seems pretty interesting. The author of this book still teaches at northwestern university, and northwestern university has a holocaust studies program lmao. What a guy

>>20888203
Is it not possible to have some halfway view, like
>yes, the Holocaust happened and innocent people were rounded up and forced into prison camps
>however, the numbers were exaggerated and there were no specific "extermination camps"

There seems to be a sharp divide between "muh six gorillion" and "just some prisoners who died due to supply lines, hitler was a good boi and dindu nuffin" with little space in between.

>>20892011
>The author of this book still teaches at northwestern university, and northwestern university has a holocaust studies program lmao.
Lol how.

bump

>>20892025
https://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2006/02/bienen.html
I wonder if hes popular on campus.

>>20888714
Then where are the corpses faggot? Cremation doesn’t work the way you retards think it does and the bones of 6 million Jews just magically disappeared

>>20892025
tenure used to mean something

>>20892018
your greentext is the dindu nuffin position though

>>20888714
If neo-nazism is an exterminationist, anti-Semitic school of thought, then why do you believe that it is to the benefit of neo-nazis to argue that the nazi government failed to perpetrate genocide against the Jewish people? Nobody who supports nazism thinks they are ever going to be winning in the court of public opinion. The truth is, if you're a nazi, it is an argument in favor of nazism that the holocaust did happen.

>>20892132
>If neo-nazism is an exterminationist, anti-Semitic school of thought, then why do you believe that it is to the benefit of neo-nazis to argue that the nazi government failed to perpetrate genocide against the Jewish people?
Because they failed to perpetrate it in any case, as tons of Jews, mentally ill, homosexuals and gypsies survived in Europe, beyond it, and even in the German government structure and the NSDAP. That Germany sucked ass at "cleaning the power structure from the untermenschen" is an undisputable fact - even had Nazis totally won the WWII (in some magical way), Germany would still remain a nation controlled by mutt international bankers and millionaire pedophiles. The people who actually used undue influence and power to fuck Germany and it's people over kept doing so even under the NSDAP regime, as they used said power to avoid the purges or even embed themselves among those who perpetrated them.

So the Holocaust question is about whether did Nazi authorities try to cover up their absolute incompetence and inability to actually implement their ideology by mass slaughter of the easy scapegoats - the poorest and most vulnerable of the targeted groups, who had no power to protect themselves, and in most cases did not take any precautions as they did not expect to be targeted for anything due to being innocent of any destructive action against the German state, people or race.

It's the question of "who would kill literally millions of innocent people just to make himself look better to superiors and public and feel like he's finally making some positive change i the world?"

Pretty much every ideology that was ever implemented eventually enacted heinous crimes for the sake of benefit, which later become the subject of apologists. Nazis differ in that they committed heinous crimes literally just to cope. The crime of Holocaust is less in it's scale, and more in it's utter pointlessness - from it's conception to it's execution. The absolute majority of those people literally died for no real reason whatsoever.

>>20888714
kys kike. You don't belong here.

>>20888203
As a child David Suzuki ("The Nature of Things," originally a Nisei in California) was interred in the wartime camps the USA set up for Japanese-Americans. He says that there was no programmatic starvation, but at the same time, everybody lost weight. That's in America, with no daily bombing of vital supply lines, and actually right next to California agriculture. If Suzuki's not lying, how were Germans supposed to feed Jews when they couldn't feed Germans? It's a task Americans couldn't do under easier circumstances.

>>20890981
Did he use two different verbs or did he say "uprooting" for both?

>>20892132
Are you retarded? Of course it would be in a nazis interest to say the holocaust was faked. It paints the Jews as liars

>>20892387
Because there's no other examples of that? They have to be "painted"? Do you not have access to basic news where you are?

>>20892344
>If Suzuki's not lying, how were Germans supposed to feed Jews when they couldn't feed Germans?
should have thought about it before waging a war. besides why were there camps in the first place? in case of Japanese Americans it was obviously done to contain potential spies but why in case of Jews of Eastern Europe?

>>20892437
because the jews (allegedly) had taken over germany from within without firing a single shot by rampant nepotism and purposefully positioning their people into positions of power where they could slide more of their own people into positions of power and block anyone who was from the "out" group from advancing up the ladder, the jews were a high class people in post ww1 germany and pretty much controlled everything, post-ww1 germany was a wartorn impoverished shithole for most people, prostitution was rampant and shamelessly exploited (hungry women will do a lot of things for bread), germany became a sex tourism spot
a veteran named adolf hitler moved to germany to become artist and but was denied by (guess who) from being admitted into art school / in his career, this caused him to resent them and when he looked around germany he saw defeated people who were living like slaves in their own country ruled over by a upper class of majority jews (do you see where this is going?)
in this time there were parties that tried to make germany great again, who remembered the days when germany was strong and feared, they had formed the national socialist party and the rest is history
so in conclusion, why were jewish people imprisoned? because they were thought of as usurpers and invaders of germany who take countries over through subterfuge by the national socialists

>>20892387
the number 6 million jews was floated around way before any of them were captured and before ww2, 6 million refugees, 6 million impoverished jews, 6 million send us shekels t. the richest class of people in germany and poland, google news articles pre ww2 about the 6 million jews with their hands out
how much money do you think they got from saying the holocaust happened? how much money do you think they are milking TO THIS DAY from that?
enough to prop up a global empire i tell you hwat, perhaps the jews aren't all that smart and savvy and are actually just shameless and nepotistic profiteers who wouldn't think twice in making money through underhanded means, think about that for a while and see the evidence yourself and draw your own conclusions

>>20888203
I hate to say it but Tik History adresses the denier's arguments on his Jootube channel. His history videos are solid.
I'm not aware of any books by mainstream historians. The moral paradigm is established and they think that's enough, but that this only breeds more retards, you you can see in this thread.

>>20892509

>holocaust denial might creep into mainstream during your lifetime

>>20890847
This

>>20891874
Except he was a joke. The idea that he was some kind of respected historian or a leading expert is a myth that he and his followers has constructed. He was a sub-par historian that most people didn't care for outside of questioning some of the wackier ideas he had before he went completely off the deep end.

>>20892535
Kurt Vonnegut liked him.

>>20892522
>they got too cocky

If you, without questioning anything at all, simply pick up the official narrative and pick that hill to die on then you're no better than the people that deny the holocaust wholesale. There is no logical and intelligent reason as to why someone would exempt the Holocaust from the grounded approach of "official story of significant event in world history is probably reasonably accurate in general but doesn't tell the whole story and leaves out important information that would otherwise make people question the narrative to a (significant) degree".

Why you can't dig-in and try to form an opinion of your own is beyond me. Not everyone works in wonderous ways of 9/11 was a 3D projection event or some such thing.

>>20892556
my biggest reason for doubting the holocaust of 6 million jewish people of europe is the sheer logistics, math and the lack of bones, one would assume that the allied forces and the jewish community at large would have searched far and wide to find 6 million bones to call jewish bones
>cremation
well then we get into the math, it doesn't add up even if the ovens were fired up at 1941 and kept blowing full steam until the end of war and defeat of nazi germany, it just doesn't seem feasible to me anon
the biggest redflag is their reaction to academics studying and trying to verify if it happened, if it really happened they should be very interested in letting people rummage around and try to prove it did so they can shut up people like me who are skeptical about things
why is it such a sin that they have to ban investigating it? why is it such a sin to say "i don't think it happened, this doesn't seem plausible to me"?
all of these combined make me believe "you know what, i don't think it even happened, i think they made it up to get filthy rich because they're greedy and shameless people"

if you've ever dined with a jew and watched them put on a show about how they forgot their wallet you'll know how shameless these people are

I honestly don't care if the holocaust happened.

>>20892665
based and minding you own business pilled

>>20892509
>denier's
It's possible to have different opinions about history. The only things that can be denied are absolute truths which are the same for everyone in all times an places. An example of an absolute truth that cannot be refuted, only denied, is A = A.

>>20892522
>holocaust denial
Is "holocaust" an absolute truth which cannot be refuted or questioned, only denied? If so, how is that the case? If not, what you have written here is meaningless.

>>20892556
>people that deny the holocaust
How is "the holocaust" an absolute truth which cannot be refuted, only denied?

>>20892561
It's possible that the Jewish "holocaust" narrative was invented as a misdirect from the documented attempted extermination of the German nation by Globohomo, a plan which existed since before the First World War.

>>20892665
Why post, then?

>>20890847
>his first girlfriend said he cried watching Aladdin.
Damning.

>>20892561
>my biggest reason for doubting the holocaust of 6 million jewish people of europe is the
Do you similarly doubt the logistical possibilities of kill-counts attributed to of Stalin or Mao?

>sheer logistics, math and the lack of bones, one would assume that the allied forces and the jewish community at large would have searched far and wide to find 6 million bones to call jewish bones
The majority of those 6 million were killed on occupied territories of Poland, Czechoslovakia, Baltic countries and Soviet Union - parts of them being killed or taken captive and executed as armed personnel of armed forces of those countries (we have the actual OKH orders which specify that Jewish soldiers and officers of Polish Republic and Red Army are to be executed with no trial on the spot) and buried in unmarked or mass graves. Another deal was killed by Einsatzgruppen units performing wholesale extermination of settlements with alleged Jewish presence or connections to local guerilla resistance across Eastern Europe, with victims also ending up in unmarked mass graves or unburied at all.

After the war, those territories fell under the control of Soviet Union and Warsaw pact countries, which, in addition to being you know, bombed and fucked roughly to Late Medieval level and dealing with famines, epidemics, loss of infrastructure, shortages of vital goods and the emerging Cold War, had some 30-ish millions of other dead to deal with - the region being littered with mass graves that are still being discovered and catalogued almost 80 years later. They had neither the interest (as Eastern Block had less than cordial relationship with Israel through most of it's history) nor the resources to filter specifically Jews out of that entire pile of the dead, without countless Jews remaining buried together with victims of other ethnicity.

You referred to impossible logistics of killing 6 million captive people on the country's own territory. Now consider the logistics of gathering back 6 million corpses scattered across a dozen countries with piecemeal records, most of which are not exactly welcoming you to come and dig around. We know for a fact that he dead of Warsaw, Vilnus, Kovno and Minsk ghettos rapidly overwhelmed the capacity of local graveyards, leading to dead being burned in gasoline pyres with the remains being dumped into Visla, Neris, and Svisloch rivers respectively. Construction projects on those rivers frequently uncover burned bone and body fragments to this day.

>"you know what, i don't think it even happened, i think they made it up to get filthy rich because they're greedy and shameless people"
Jews were already filthy rich because they're greedy and shameless people beforehand - that's how NSDAP justified their policy, remember? Jewish elites do not need to fake a genocide in order to be rich - they have banks and hedge funds for that. They'd have to be dumbasses not to milk the one that actually happened though.

>>20888203
"Inside the Third Reich", and "Spandau: The Secret Diaries" by Albert Speer.

>>20892571
Underrated

>>20888652
>To begin with, David Irving is not a historian
>wordvomit of EXPERTS AND ALLIES AGREED
its DEBOONKED by EXPERTS chudcel

>>20893004
>Speer
lel retard

>>20892387
Nazis always tell the truth. Jews always lie.

>>20892018
It is possible, but everyone is conditioned to respond to that negatively, might as well say it didn't happen, you'll be the same pariah

>>20888652
cringe.
David Irving was praised by many historians for 15 years before it became (((controversial))) to do so. He has some of the best access to primary German documents and is an eloquent and articulate writer.
>"sorry, chuds, I'm throwing in with some jewish 'political theorist'"

>>20892991
>Do you similarly doubt the logistical possibilities of kill-counts attributed to of Stalin or Mao?
Yes, actually. The Holodomor similarly makes no logistical sense (not to mention historical), and Mao, well. People in China had been dying by the tens of millions for hundreds of years, crop failure and mass starvation are a bitch. If it didn't happen under him, it would've happened under Shang Chi Chek, and subsequently ignored considering it came from one of western liberalisms good bois.

>>20894052
He wasn't praised, he was recognized as a journalist that dug deep into the archives. He did not have more access that any other researcher. And he was controversial from day one. At no point did he further histography nor was he ever seen as a noteworthy historian.

>>20891201
>It's amazing how such historic places or events can totally disapear from the common memory in just a few hundred years.
irene zisblatt's shit diamonds are even more amazing.

>>20894161
It was the actions of the communists that led to famine and the massive extent of the death toll. It wasn't just "one of those things" like black people getting "incarcerated," it was a consequence of actions driven by ideology. this was acknowledged at the time by high ranking party members like Peng Dehuai.

>>20894518
Actually, how did de Holodomor really happen? I’m tired of seeing people either deny it by saying it’s anti-commie propaganda or affirm it by saying “of course the evil commies would kill a gazillion people for no gain whatsoever”. No doubting it happened, just looking for a better explanation than “those in power where evil/retarded”.

>>20894560
Khokols and kulaks refused to work their land for common prosperity, leading to precipitous drop in produce, thus famine

>>20891201
>Romans (citizens of the City of Rome) in 7th and 8th century were completely clueless as to what was the function of the ancient buildings in their city. In a matter of a few hundred years of negligence they speculated that the colosseum was a place where ancient Romans did necromancy or worshipped their gods.

I always found this so fucking cool. There's a letter from Pope Gregory the great where he writes about how giant apartment buildings would collapse during heavy storms, and you could hear them from the little hovels the remaining population still lived in. insane that Rome's population declined by 98% at the time

>>20894571
t. delusional tankie

>>20892321
Neither do you, palooka.

>>20894193
>At no point did he further histography
imblyng Hitler's War isn't authoritative

>>20894193
prove your claim that he was controversial from the beginning. you would never have heard of him if he was (((perceived))) as a revisionist from day one

>>20892318
>millionaire pedophiles
reminder that Qoomers are Holocaust credulists because they're weird philo-Semitic Christians who think the pagan Hitler was literally demonic

The Holocaust denial point I just can't get past is when they say
>well actually (alot? most?) of the deaths in the camps are from typhoid not gassings so technically the nazis didn't kill them
>well actually the children in my basement died from hunger and neglect, I didn't kill them guys!

>>20894948
>what is intent?

>>20894948
the gas chambers are a joke. it's not The Holocaust without gas chambers. so I like to focus on the gas chambers

>>20894974
>I didn't mean to kill the kids in my basement, I was gonna release them eventually I swear

>>20888203
The Holocaust never happened. There are no bodies, no material evidence, NOTHING that proves it. This is not debatable, they had decades to bring evidence, and instead of doing that they just criminalized questioning it. They admited defeat. You can see all the jews kvetching ITT because they can't stand it. They couldn't bury a lie, and it kills them to see it. It's never going away. Holocaust debunking will continue resurfacing, and jews are losing power every day. It's over.

>>20888203
I don't care if the holocaust really happened or not. All I know is damn near every western civilization has had a bone to pick with jews since ancient history and that's enough for me to hate them