/lit/ - Literature

>>20872764
I will inaugurate this thread with a good question:
Does Jesus ever mock people in the Bible?

More questions. How often, under what circumstances, and toward what goals? Would you describe Jesus Christ's behavior in these instances as similar to Schopenhauer's stratagems, or is it more like taking a line of bad thought to their inevitably disastrous conclusions? Can one say there's even a difference between the two?

>>20872972
>Does Jesus ever mock people in the Bible?
Yes.
>How often
not often
>under what circumstances, and toward what goals?
rebuking the blasphemy and hypocrisy of the jewish leaders which lead to Jesus being convicted of blasphemy in a corrupt trial and then crucified

"You brood of vipers, how can you claim to speak truth when you are evil?" Jesus to the jewish elite of his time

"I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you” Jesus in a letter to a Christian church being persecuted by jews

>desert jew schizo screed
>Holy

>>20873020
>reddit

>>20873020
>*tips fedora*

>>20872972
No. only serious rebukes.
>>20873009
Not mockery.

>>20873020
Upvoted

Edit: thanks for the reddit gold kind stranger, holy friccin moly!

From Genesis 19:
[30] And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
[31] And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
[32] Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
[33] And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
[34] And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our Father.
[35] And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
[36] Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.

The quran is way more influential now

>>20873721
It's number one with a bullet!
Truly mind-blowing!

>>20873721
Bible is influential for Muslims but Quran isn't for Christians

>>20872764
I tried a few time reading the bible but couldnt get out of genesis. Am I doing it wrong? and I being filtered? Is there a better way to read it? Should I listen to it on an audiobook?

>>20874313
You should consider reading a modern translation.
I recommend the New Oxford Annotated Bible with Apocrypha, New Revised Standard Version.
Not only did a team of experts and researchers do their best to use the most accurate of a wide variety of sources, but there's a LOT of commentary on the history and setting of each chapter/verse.
It's also a free download on archive.org .

>>20874313
filtered

>>20872764
Shouldn't this belong to /his/?

>>20873721
but the quran is fiction. Whereas the Bible is validated by a plethora of external documents and archeology

>>20874443
sounds liek what i need. thanks.

>>20874313
Start with the New Testament before tackling the OT.

>>20874504
Well, maybe later portions are...but the commentary for Exodus in the New Oxford Annotated Bible with Apocrypha (New Revised Standard Version) makes it clear there's no archaeological evidence for the events in that book.
From page 108:
"The historicity of that story has been questioned, partly because the sources comprising Exodus date from many centuries after the events they purport to describe. The events themselves, which involve the escape of a component of the Pharaoh’s workforce, the disruption of Egyptian agriculture, and the loss of many Egyptian lives, are not mentioned in Egyptian sources (although the Egyptians would not necessarily record such events). Similarly, the larger-than-life leader Moses is not mentioned in contemporaneous nonbiblical sources; and no trace of a large group of people moving across the Sinai Peninsula has been found by archaeological surveys or excavations. Moreover, virtually none of the places mentioned in Exodus, including the holy mountain, can be identified with sites discovered in Sinai or with names known from other sources. In addition, features of the story, such as the signs and wonders performed in Egypt and the exceedingly large number of people said to have left Egypt, defy credibility. Finally, the Exodus story culminates in Joshua, with the conquest of the land of Israel; and here too the archaeological record does not corroborate the main biblical narrative."

>>20874612
absolutely true.
>>20874313
start with the gospel of Luke too. it will fill with you love. https://www.concordant.org/version/read-concordant-new-testament-online/03-luke/

come back when you read about heaven and hell in the bible

>>20873701
shame on you

>>20875022
Any evidence that the Gospel isn't a bunch of empty promises?
Don't get me wrong...I want to believe there's something positive in this universe...but I find no evidence of it.
For instance...are there any Christian denominations that *don't* have a child-molestation scandal?
And not just individual clergypeople...but a hierarchy dedicated to covering it up.
At the very least, these people seem awfully sure there isn't a Hell.
By their fruits ye shall know them. (Matthew 7.20)

>>20875100
Shame on me for WHAT?
Accurately quoting the Bible?

>>20875119
Evidence? Not in the scientific sense, altho many of the greatest scientific minds believed in Christ. CS lewis put forward the "Lunatic, Liar, or Lord" trilemma which asserts that Jesus must have been one of these 3, can be helpful to those who do not know in their hearts. Try thinking through the implications of each one. Jesus lived a big life, and made the boldest of claims, and did not falter. The people who witnessed him were so sure of it that they all died horrible deaths that could have been avoided with a simple verbal renouncement.
Believing theres something positive in the universe is fairly easy. Study science then think on the majesty of a simple flower, compared to the emptiness of space. The corruption of the young is done by men, and it just so happens that the church is made of men. It is quite terrible to be sure. It seems to be rare in the Orthodox Church. Have you read the Gospel of Luke? https://www.concordant.org/version/read-concordant-new-testament-online/03-luke/

>>20873147
>>20873159
>>20873371
>le tradlarper instant seethe

>>20875176
>many of the greatest scientific minds believed in Christ
Would they have, if not for the threat of getting "canceled" by the church, and maybe burned at the stake? (e.g. Galileo)

Nearing the end of II CHRONICLES.

>>20875204
Definitely. Gregor Mendel who you may learnt about in high school genetics, the father of modern genetics was a friar then an abbot. There are many such cases similar to this if you investigate.

>>20875252
I suppose he's fortunate that the Church didn't consider his work on genetics to be sacrilege.

>>20872764
Jesus hated goyim and did not intend for goyim to accept his religion

You are all forsaken, retarded Christcucks

>>20875280
Synagouge of Satan says what now?

>>20875289
Dumb goyim!! You will serve the Jews just like wht Jesus said in John 4:22!!

>>20874612
A lot of sayings wont make sense without the OT. Its best to slog through the old testament if you really hate it to fully understand and appreciate the new.

>>20875300
I loled. Accepts 4:22 rejects 4:25-26. Kikes are yikes.
25 The woman is saying to Him, "We are aware that Messiah is coming, Who is termed 'Christ,' Whenever He should be coming, He will be informing us of all things."
26 Jesus is saying to her, "I am He, Who am speaking to you."

>>20875344
I disagree, for someone reading it for the first time the NT is far more accessible and easily understood than the OT, the only very dense sections being Romans and Revelation.
What exactly do you believe would be hard for anon to grasp from the NT?

>>20875365
zip through the nt in a fortnight comfortably. then go through Ot and skip the begets parts then the nt will hit different the second time.

>>20875280
?

>CODE OF CANON LAW
>BOOK IV. FUNCTION OF THE CHURCH
>PART I. THE SACRAMENTS
>TITLE III. THE MOST HOLY EUCHARIST (Cann. 897 - 958)
>CHAPTER I. THE EUCHARISTIC CELEBRATION
>Art. 2. PARTICIPATION IN THE MOST HOLY EUCHARIST
>Can. 917 A person who has already received the Most Holy Eucharist can receive it a second time on the same day only within the eucharistic celebration in which the person participates, without prejudice to the prescript of can. 921, §2.
I routinely partake in up to 4 Celebrations of the Eucharist every Sunday in German, Spanish, Italian, and English as per intercultural dialogue in the spirit of Pentecost. I understand the thought behind the limit of 2 hosts a day as a measure to deter those who make profane idols of the physical bread thereof without taking to heart the true Body of Christ, that is to say: the erroneous 'Holier than thou' notion that "more bread = more faith"; I also still abide by this rule despite my disagreement and go up for the Blessing in hope of a more due process. Considering that Faith in God is self-proceeding rather than resultant from that which is of earth - although it may be inspired, ultimately, that comes from within - it would seem pertinent that such laws address principally the spiritual component as antecedent to the decision-making evident on Earth.
Finally, to establish a more perfect Comm-union, it would be most beneficial if the community celebrating the Eucharist were to be as united as possible concerning rites, of which, the utmost participation in the Blessed Sacrament for those in a State of Grace is essential.

>>20875409
Nice.
I assume the blue parts are links?
What's the original source of this?
I'd like to read those links.
I wonder if the Christians gave up their status as the Chosen People with the mass child-molestation scandal.

>>20875280

>>20874991
That simply is not true. See below >>20875119
Yes. See below. Obviously you can feel the palpable evil of this world because it is REAL. And there is an opposite force to that evil which is the holy trinity.

As I said there is a plethora of external evidence validating the Bible. In terms of the exodus the most famous piece being the Ipuwer Papyrus. A Papyrus written by an egyptian sage named Ipuwer that dates approximately to the same time period of the Exodus and seems to detail a first hand account of the Biblical plagues.

Ipuwer Papyrus. Ancient Egyptian Papyrus written by a sage named Ipuwer detailing a first hand account of the 10 plagues God sent upon Egypt.

Ipuwer:
2:5-6 Plague is throughout the land. Blood is everywhere.
>Nile turned to blood
2:10 The river is blood.
2:10 Men shrink from tasting human beings, and thirst after water
2:10 Forsooth, gates, columns and walls are consumed by fire.
5:5 All animals, their hearts weep. Cattle moan…
>Plague of darkness
9:11 The land is without light.
>death of the firstborn
4:3 (5:6) Forsooth, the children of princes are dashed against the walls.
6:12 Forsooth, the children of princes are cast out in the streets.
3:14 It is groaning throughout the land, mingled with lamentations.
>God appears as a pillar of fire
7:1 Behold, the fire has mounted up on high. Its burning goes forth against the enemies of the land.

The most compelling however is the evidence of New Testament events and the ministry of Jesus. Paul for instance, who was a real person and his letters are extremely significant given he gave up his position as a pharisee to proclaim Christ all the way to his grave.

Even without the Biblical sources we know from writings of several historical figures (Tacitus, Josephus, Pliny, Sutonious, etc.) which give an account of Jesus' ministry completely external from the Bible. Their accumulated writings tell us that:

•Jesus was a wise man
•He was believed to work miracles
•He was called the Messiah
•He was prayed to as a God
•He caused Christianity to spread throughout the Roman empire
•He was crucified under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius

The Bible is very real. Jesus and his ministry are real. And you can still be saved.

>>20875426
>catholics
>Christian

You can only pick 1

>>20875433
Why is Afghanistan 2021 not on the list. Taliban removed the jew and their dogs of war

>>20875463
What does /lit/ think of Isaac Newtons "An Historical Account of Two Notable Corruptions of Scripture" ? See the wiki page for the tldr "Timothy 3:16 here is evidence that the original Greek read 'ος' but was modified by the addition of a strikethrough to become 'θς' (see the excerpt from the Codex Sinaiticus, above). 'θς' was then assumed to be a contraction of 'θεος.' The biblical scholar Metzger explains, "no uncial (in the first hand) earlier than the eighth or ninth century (Ψ) supports θεος; all ancient versions presuppose ὃς or ὃ; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century testifies to the reading of θεος."[12] In other words, Bible manuscripts closest to the original said 'who' and not 'God' in verse 16."
I dont know how to access the primary sources he did, he was obviously a blessed and pious man so either he was found something significant or he was mistaken.

>>20875486
There was only one individual 'Jew' left and he left on his own accord because the State of 'Israel' bribed him.

>>20875494
Countless theologians have argued about the translations of particular words for centuries. But the Biblical story as a whole remains the same regardless of differences of opinion in small interpretations.

>>20875463
>Ipuwer Papyrus. A Papyrus written by an Egyptian sage named Ipuwer that dates approximately to the same time period of the Exodus
No...even a complimentary website, https://earlychurchhistory.org/communication/the-ipuwer-papyrus-were-the-10-biblical-plagues-real/ , admits as much:
>The dating of the Papyrus is difficult. Some date it to the 1900’s BC, others to the 1500’s BC. Others say it is a copy or a copy of a copy made centuries earlier [...].

>>20875494
Can you spell out the implication for me a little bit more clearly? I don't know what the original Greek word supposedly was.

>>20875506
Ofc. Its just Newton was quite independent in a lot of his theology and science and maths. he simultaneously zealous and possessed with superior reasoning. I agree it doesn't change the story, but I just wonder why this particular discovery incited him so.

>>20875520
Intelligence =/= personality =/= morality
Stupid =/= silly =/= sinful
Smart =/= mature =/= virtuous

>>20875517
Idk the greek either. In matter to the implication of the trinity it seems significant because, the trinity is always alluded to in the scripture but never specifically mentioned in the way it is today. From the wiki "Newton argued that, by a small alteration in the Greek text, the word "God" was substituted to make the phrase read "God was manifest in the flesh" instead of "which was manifested in the flesh".[n 1] He attempted to demonstrate that early Church writers in referring to the verse knew nothing of such an alteration.["

Then the other part is "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Using the writings of the early Church Fathers, the Greek and Latin manuscripts and the testimony of the first versions[clarification needed] of the Bible, Newton claims to have demonstrated that the words "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one", that support the Trinity doctrine, did not appear in the original Greek Scriptures. He then attempts to demonstrate that the purportedly spurious reading crept into the Latin versions, first as a marginal note, and later into the text itself. "

See the Wik for yourself its <1000 words
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Historical_Account_of_Two_Notable_Corruptions_of_Scripture

>>20875475
The Protestants, Southern Baptists, and Mormons have also had their widespread-child-molestation scandals.
It's not just the Catholics.
And I know they're just "men"...but they're men that evidently don't believe in Hell.

>>20875494
Hopefully that was taken into account when the New Oxford Annotated Bible with Apocrypha (New Revised Standard Edition) was compiled.
That's the one I'm reading, and I hope I'm not wasting my time with a bunch of inaccuracies.

>>20875529
He was lifelong virgin who toiled in isolation to better understand God through scripture and science. I dont think its fair of us to cast aspersions on his character, surely he stands among the greatest of men to have ever lived.

>>20875536
Idk but I would think that its unlikely, and that you would not find a modern bible that included this stuff. Dont be alarmed however, there certainly aren't a "bunch" of inaccuracies.

>>20875538
It was your logic that I highlighted, per l'avvacato del diavolo.
I'm moreso indifferent to the man himself.

>>20875511
Ok and Exodus is approximated to be around ~1450BC. Thanks for proving my point

Hey anons, my question is - which statements or lines from the New Testament do apologists use to claim Jesus did not preach exclusively for Jews?

>>20875552
I see, so if we approximate enough, and select our data, and maybe squint our eyes, it all seems to line up!
I can't tell if that's more logical fallacy or more cope.

>>20875540
That's unsettling...I was really hoping THIS was an inaccuracy... >>20873701

>>20875563
It's called proper understanding and context. Anything related to ancient history even aside from Biblical theology always has wiggle room with dates that things happened. The dates of certain events are not always exact but approximately.

>well uhhhhh we think the big bazinga happened 13 billion years ago but it could've been 6 billion we uhhh don't really know but science man said it happened so it's true!

>>20875585
>big bazinga
I'm right there with you on that.
I'm no more willing to believe in than I am to believe in the Bible.
Just sounds like a bunch of people winging it to me.
And if looking into myself for the Truth is still a thing...I tend to side with the Gnostics more than any other publicly-known group.
The idea that the god of our universe is blind and insane explains more than anything else I've ever encountered.

>>20875567
You have to remember that just because its in the bible doesn't mean its condoned. In fact later these types of actions are explicitly condemnedned. And if you read further on you see what happens to these women. Most times its trolls that post this stuff in order to get zealous young christians to angrily respond.

I kind of want to get a tattoo of Ophanim. He's the coolest looking angel IMO. Is it blasphemy to get a tattoo of an angel?

>>20875637
If you ever grow in your faith this cringe will haunt you. Reconsider bro.

How do Ethiopians justify giving the Book of Enoch canon status? Their theology must be very strange.

>>20875671
Jesus references it several times, at least once by name specifically. I find it weird that it isn't included desu.

>>20875685
desu got auto corrected to desu lololol

>>20875562
Literally multiple episodes in the NT. Jesus speaks with the Samaritan woman by the well in John and she goes and tells people what happens and it says entire villages came to Christ. Samaritans were seen as filthy apostates of dubious ancestry in Jewish society at the time. We also know that he marvelled at the faith of a centurion and healed his servant, and he also healed the Canaanite woman, and we also know from the Gospels that the cities of the Decapolis, which were primarily Hellenistic Greek-speaking cities were also a place that Jesus worked miracles. Jesus tells his disciples to preach the Gospel to every creature and every nation and baptize them in Matthew. The parable of the vineyard has the unfaithful Jews kicked out and replaced by God-fearing Gentiles. It’s undeniable that Jesus came first to fulfill the Law and to preach to those under the Law, but anyone familiar with the OT will know that the Messiah / Christ would be the one who drew all nations to the God of Israel. This is very evident in Isaiah, as a single example. Even Paul first went to the synagogues, and then the Gentiles. The reason is obvious, because the former were familiar with the prophecies.

>>20875637
Leviticus 19:28
>You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the LORD.

>>20875671
Enoch is full of passages that show the Son of Man sitting on a throne, judging the nations, etc. It is even mentioned in Jude, of course. It’s not Scripture for mainstream Christianity, needless to say, but I wouldn’t say it preaches anything heretical per se. It influenced some of the early Church Fathers’ interpretations of Genesis 6 too.

>>20872764
Where can I get a physical Bible? Best edition?

>>20875752
Cambridge Press makes very nice Bibles. I'm a fan of their Cameo edition of the KJV with Apocrypha.

>>20875752
Douay–Rheims is you want a KJV without the heresy and removed books.

>>20875736
>wouldn’t say it preaches anything heretical per se
It says that men can become angels.

>>20875796
iirc theres something in the canon about ascension within heavenly rankings.

>>20875796
That would be heretical, in that case. Would you happen to have the verse and chapter for that? Just out of curiosity. The way I view Enoch, it certainly has some true elements in it, but is at the end of the day *not* inspired—it’s not written by Enoch either, obviously.

>>20874313
watch the OT animated books series on youtube, or live-action ones, it helps to get an idea of what's going on, then go back and read them

>>20875796
>>20875819
how else do people explain how people like Enoch and Elijah rose into heaven before Christ? everybody has some kind of cope by saying that they were in "good limbo" prior to Christ, then they finally ascended into heaven. but I don't buy it.

>>20875619
>you see what happens to these women
Nothing happens to them.
One of their progeny becomes the Moabites.
Nothing particularly bad happens to them.
One of the most famous Moabites was Ruth.
Jesus Christ traces his progeny to her.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Moabites.html
So it seems Lot's daughters got away with their incest.

>>20875831
There are multiple heavens. Paul speaks of at least three, popular tradition speaks of seven heavens. Some parts of this post will be speculative, but I do not think I am going too crazy—I imagine that Enoch and Elijah were translated to some sort of lower angelic realm, maybe the first heaven, or so. The idea that this happening ‘before Christ’ is strange is an incorrect one, I think, because Christianity isn’t about ‘going to heaven’, but is about one’s communion with God in Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which was brought to its fullest realization at the time of Christ’s incarnation and his assumption of our human nature, something which effected Enoch and Elijah just as much as it did those who had died before the time of Christ, to those of us who are alive today. They reaped the same benefits. And in time, Enoch and Elijah will come back, and they will preach and die as is appointed for all men.

>>20875838
Many wicked people thrive in this life, but judgement will not escape them in the hereafter. Ephesians 5:5-
>For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

>>20875929
Still a pretty indirect condemnation of Lot's daughters.

>>20875922
how many fucking heavens are there?

>>20875961
None, we're talking about regular heavens.

>>20875536
It's not really an inaccuracy, more a question of reading. If the original word is masculine "hos" (omicron-sigma) the sentence is odd because there's no appropriately gendered antecedent (there's a "who" but nothing it refers back to). There are at least three different ways translations solve this: 1) They assume the word is an error for neuter "ho," which is what the Vulgate does. 2) They assume the word is an abbreviation for God (theta-sigma, theta looking an awful lot like omicron), which is what the KJV does. 3) They assume there really is no formal antecedent, which is what most translations do, both modern ones like NASB and ancient ones like the Classical Armenian. Lack of an antecedent is uncommon in the NT, but it does happen (e.g., Acts 13:37), and it shows up frequently in the Septuagint (e.g., Isaiah 10:14).

>>20875517
Well, nothing really unless you were going to use the verse as an example of the bible calling Jesus "God."

>>20875958
Lot’s daughters raped their father and were sexually immoral, ergo they will not inherit the Kingdom if they did not repent and change their ways. Your obsession with this passage is strange, and it does not draw (you) any closer to Christ.
>>20875961
Some early Fathers mention seven. We know there is at minimum three. Some pseudoepigraphical texts like 2 Enoch mention ten heavens. I’m not sure we have a defined answer. I’d say there could be a lot of them. The number of angels has been said to be like 99:1 ratio with humanity (one patristic interpretation of the parable of the lost sheep)

>>20875998
What are we to make of Swedenborgs 3 heavens, and they are collectively like a man.

>>20876050
Look up ‘prelest’

>>20876057
I see and I dont discount that we are all guilty of prelest to an extent. Its rough to realise if a man as gifted as Swedenborg may be mistaken , what chance do we have? there is also the fact that he was a highly respected scientist, and that he wrote all this, and had these historically verified "miracles"/very odd happenings, all the while knowing that he would be ridiculed and thought insane and have his career discredited. By all accounts he was extremely prideful as a young man, but utterly humble by the time this stuff started happening. "here is Swedenborg's statement that he was commanded by the Lord to publish his writings and "Do not believe that without this express command I would have thought of publishing things which I knew in advance would make me look ridiculous and many people would think lies""
I remember his writing on the trinity was very proper.

>>20876105
It doesn’t matter whether he was a scientist, because the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. Some of the greatest saints have been illiterature or ‘fools’ in the eyes of the world. Performing pseudo-miracles as well is also not a proof of the veracity of any of his claims, as every religious group claim that they have miracles—Hindu gurus, etc. Likewise, Swedenborg was not a part of the true Church, so spiritual delusions such as his are only to be expected, as he has no proper basis for discernment. If you want to learn more about Swedenborg, read Fr. Seraphim Rose’s book on the soul after death, he deals with Swedenborg in there and shows how it is just demonic experiences with the aerial realm of spirits. The prince of the power of the air is at work.

>>20876229
thank you, I will definitely read that that.

>>20875998
I wasn't in the market for an invisible sky daddy anyway.

>>20875736
Leviticus also tells you to give sacrifices to the Lord. Do you do that anon?

>>20875280
Jesus of Nazareth was a Palestinian Jew who attempted to reconcile all peoples under God.
>Christ-cuck
"Christ" implies *acknowledgment* of Χριστός, that is "the annointed one", Christ Jesus.

>did plays and worksheets on gospel stories in primary school
>read the Bible again
>Each story is a short paragraph

does the identitarian interpretation of le bible make any sense, brothers? i want to believe that jacob's offspring are europeans and esau's offspring are jews. tis the only way i could ever be christian.