/lit/ - Literature

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
The slogan 'Press On!' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
-Calvin Coolidge

>>20860313
Alright for real, the OP is fucking awful. It’s essentially unusable for a novice due to the wild variance in credibility long with the sheer volume of information. Most of it is completely useless as well. So much hyperniche info as well, do most perspective writers really want to self publish? That’s a little defeatist. The lack of ambition here is a little concerning, guys.

>>20860326
What would you like to suggest for changes?

>>20860334
Yeah...it's easy to criticize, but I haven't heard many solid ideas about doing better.
t. OP

>>20860326
>>20860334
Dude, get rid of the anime writing. No one uses it and it’s only here because perhaps half a year ago some brony added it.

I need to know which quote sounds the best for the character in question. She's supposed to be very experienced and patient, but is a little jaded
>Listen up. I've seen the skills you have, but I've never seen you really use them to their fullest in a fight. It's like the thought of using them never crosses your mind
>Look, you have a good bunch of abilities, but your willingness to use all but two is severely lacking. You lack creativity or the ability to plan things out, so you just resort to the easiest to use in the heat of the moment.
>Brute force is all you seem to use in combat. I don't imply a lack of finesse, I'm saying you don't use all of your skills.

Posting again because I failed to realize the old thread had hit bump limit:
>>20859510
That specific story idea, though?
>>20859698
That's the entire point, Esperanto is supposed to be a bridge language and preserve the diversity of language, not replace existing languages.

>>20860326
speaking as someone who's only been here a few times and is just starting to write, I think the OP is fine. I don't think having too many links/too much information is a bad thing; I think most people scroll through and check what interests them while ignoring the rest. something like "Anime Writing (^･o･^)" might seem like a retarded thing to have in the OP, but I think the only people interested in those links are probably also retarded. so the video and the wikihow under "Anime Writing (^･o･^)" are probably a suitable level of retardation for them.

>>20860408
I like the third the best, though I'd change "a lack of" to "you lack" to make it even better. The first seems a little bloated and the second has a weak first sentence.

>>20860403
But anime writing is very popular.
Go to bed, grandpa. It's much later than you think.

>>20860408
The third one is the best because it's to the point and doesn't bother with "Here's the deal" buffering

If I have a novella that’s about 120 pages and it’s my first work, should I submit it to traditional publishing or try the amazon route?

You were born too late to achieve all the things in writing that you want to achieve: (1) decent money, (2) time to produce quality work, (3) the ability to work non-crazy hours. Writers in the 50s enjoyed all three, but we are not those writers. If you want to make solid money, you will need to work at least 60 hours a week, half of which will be marketing. You will need to accept that the algorithm and most contemporary writing cultures *heavily* favor women, and if you go tradpub you will meet unimpressed cat-lady editors at every gate. Every selfpubbed success, meanwhile, starts out putting in 80 hours a week for years on end. Eventually you'll amass enough infrastructure that you can start to delegate tasks, but the market will have changed when you're 40 and you will be lucky if anyone is even reading instead of getting lobotomized by VR gachas.

>>20860603
How many words? What’s it’s about?

>>20860619
>60 hours a week
>crazy hours
Anon, you do realized that the 5 days a week, 8 hours a day is a recent meme right? Before the 1920s, you either work, work, work or go to church and that’s about it.

>>20860622
30,000, its sort of a futuristic space fantasy light novel

>>20860643
>light novel
Stop right there, and rewrite it to YA.

>>20860643
I'm not the person you were replying to, but you should try to trad pub--without an act of God, you won't succeed in getting it published traditionally, but by reaching out to agents and writing query letters you can get some much-needed experience. Yes, even getting rejected by publishers and agents is a worthwhile educational experience.

Basically, it looks something like this:

When you trad publish, you only have to write and edit the book. That's it. An editor in-house will do the proofreading, the publisher will hire a cover artist to make you a cover, the whole deal. (They won't market the book, though.) However, the book generally has to be really good and really well-polished for it to get traditionally published, which is why you should strive for that even though in all likelihood you won't succeed. By pushing yourself to your limits and revising the short book to its best possible form, you either get traditionally published or at least have a book of quality that you can proudly self-publish.

Just don't get lazy and self-publish some barely edited garbage. There's already enough bad indie books, and the more quality indie books that do get self-published, the better.

/wg/, I realized today that my writing career is a disaster waiting to happen, and yet for some reason I still find myself wanting to follow through

I can't deal with criticism, or rejection, or failure, yet i open myself to it to seek praise from a society I don't even like. poor self-esteem makes writing a struggle for me, and struggling with writing makes my self-esteem worse.

I know I can tell my story in my head, and have it there safely, all to myself. So why, why do feel the urge to keep going? why can't I abandon my goal

>>20860669
What I meant by light novel is that it’s easy to read

>>20860683
You're growing up

>>20860680
Thank you anon, I think you’re right. I’ll try submiting it and get the experience like you said and then if it doesnt work out, Ill just put it online for free and move on to my next stories.

>>20860680
Let me add to this anon's post. 30,000 words is a tough sell, even for an established author. Pat Rothfuss is one of the bestselling fantasy authors in the world, and his publisher Daw wasn't exactly thrilled about publishing his novella. It made them money, but nothing close what they make from his novels (perhaps not even 1%).

>>20860683
>I can't deal with criticism, or rejection, or failure,
It's a muscle that's trained like so many others
>why can't I abandon my goal
Because you know you're improving and growing deep down even if it's not obvious
You're doing things the you from a year ago wouldn't be able to
>>20860712
So you're saying larger books are more likely to be published? I've heard the opposite

>>20860712
This is probably a retarded question but why do novels make more money than novellas in the case of trad-publishing?
I understand that in self-pub more pages = more money to be made but what about trad-publishing? Is it because people prefer novels to novellas?

>>20860725
You've heard memes. For fantasy, 100k is a good benchmark for a debut. If you're writing epic fantasy, tradpubs are happy to buy *much* larger wordcounts if the story holds up. The problem is that very, very few debut writers can manage stories that large. Rothfuss only sold his novel because he won Writers of the Future AND got a personal recommendation from Kevin J. Anderson AND got a small-ish publisher willing to edit his work for years before publishing it.

>>20860725
>>20860730
The average novels has 80k-120k words. Thick books has 250k and above. 30k is barely thick enough to be a pamphlet.

>>20860730
Novellas have a tendency to be too short for most readers' preferences. Simple as.

>>20860725
>Because you know you're improving and growing deep down even if it's not obvious
>You're doing things the you from a year ago wouldn't be able to

How exactly am I growing and improving? I haven't been able to write in months. Is merely admitting the folly of my actions to myself without bitterness growth?

>>20860751
>Great Gatsby is only 47k words
>It's much too short for today's standard
How do you people word vomit 100k words without dragging the story on and on?

>>20860756
>I haven't been able to write in months.
This is perfectly normal
Motivation isn't something you can "grasp", one day you'll notice that fog isn't quite there anymore and you get going
Admitting you're doing something wrong can only mean growth

>>20860730
People want their money's worth, they want to show off to others that they read something big, and they want a story to get absorbed in.

>>20860509
No it’s not.
Worst of all it’s bad.
You are less grounded in reality than Chris chan.

>>20860757
100k is nothing. Name of the Wind is 250k and it goes by so fast you don't even notice. Long books are just fun.

>>20860757
I doubt a “light novel” is as well written as the Gatsby. Nowadays, people like details, details, and more details. So just describing how characters and location looks in great length and go on a tangent about the lore should be enough to get the word count up. Oh, and don’t forget B-plots.

>>20860779
>Less grounded in reality than HIM
NTA but that's fucking impossible.

>>20860787
Then read what the fuck you’re saying Chris. No one, and I repeat NO ONE takes anime writing seriously outside of fucking serialized manga.
Honestly, fuck off to /a/!

>>20860793
What does "Anime" even mean? Does it just mean "Not grounded or over the top?"

>>20860509
This. F Gardner wrote an entire book that’s a Pokémon ripoff and his books get spammed all day here.

>>20860795
It reads like a stereotypical anime.

"aawwwoooo.... - Kisaki said, "it's not far how big Miki's breasts are.
Kisaki drank another gulp of her milk. She pressed her hands against her chest, a large droplet of sweat formed from her anger and frustration. "Hurry up and grow already! I won't be defeated by a girl like her!"
"oooh hohohoho" Fanna laughed at Kisaki's expense. "You're so unknowledgeable about the minds of men Kisaki-Chan."
"What do you know Fanna-san?"
"Just take a seat and listen!" Fanna said, magically manifesting a large chalkboard from behind. Large thick glasses also appeared instantly on her face! Kisaki watched in amazement to see all the new items appear directly in front of her. She needed to be a great student now.
"Girls mistaken that boy only like big breasts! That's wrong, there's nothing more tempting to men than young girls. Girls with small breasts give that illusion and they won't be able to resist! So all you need to do is get up closely and let your chest press against theirs!"

>>20860807
Wait what? I don’t think Call of the Crocodile is supposed to be anything like pokemon.

>>20860807
>>20860814
jesus fucking christ. at this point I think the right thing to do is add "F. Gardner" to the filter list

>>20860814
It’s not. I’m talking about “Jigoku.” One of his lesser spammed titles.
>>20860817
Oh shut up.

>>20860826
And it's a shit one at that

>>20860826
Why is it only ever the crocodile book that gets memed? This is the first time I’ve ever even heard of any other book by Gardner.

>>20860834
Did I say it wasn’t? I just called it a ripoff. I don’t read his books.

>>20860757
I feel the same. I always end up writing novellas because I feel like I will just repeat myself if I make it longer. I only write non-genre tho.

>>20860834
My god are you fucking kidding me with this

>>20860842
I'm not arguing
I just wanted to post the first page of Jigoku because it's so staggeringly shit

ATTENTION!
F Gardner has come up in conversation! Time to abandon thread!
Only kidding. Keep talking about your shitty eceleb.

>>20860683
Thought the same
Just wrote my book and published it
Nobody cared about it, only made three orders
Didn't advertise, so it might be my fault

Anyway: nobody really cares, Amazon gets like around 7000 or so books a day published on is platform
Just write what you want to write, publish it and move on, don't even bother about other people's opinions

Does anyone go back to their old abandoned stories and reread them? I'm rereading one I abandoned a year ago right now, and I'm finding it to be pretty good.

>>20860751
Both long books and short novellas are off the table for the most part when it comes to profitability, because of the following:

>Page count / print costs to price: A book that is 1,000 pages long will have roughly twice as much content as a 500--page book, but it doesn't cost twice as much, despite costing twice as much to print. So publishers don't want to release really long books unless it's from a hyper-successful established author.
>If a book is really short, it's cheap to print, but they can't justify charging the same price. No reader is going to pay $15 for 1/3rd of a novel. But the publisher still has to print it, and even though the page count will be low, they still have to ship physical copies to bookstores, which will eat up profits.

Basically, ebooks are the only economically-viable option for the vast majortiy of really short or really long works.

The best options with novellas would be to write 2-3 really good novellas and publish them together in one omnibus or collection. Same with short-stories; publish them together in one book as a collection, not individually.

However, even that isn't very viable, because most readers would rather read one novel than a collection of short stories (sales consistently prove that short stories are less popular among customers), but it's definitely better than trying to individually sell / publish a lone novella.

>>20860834
Holy shit, he even switches between past and present tense.

>>20860876
I did this with my previous unpublished manuscript, and it was dogshit, but I loved returning to it with fresh eyes some five years later. I forgot like 90% of it. The fact is that it was the best writing I was capable of at the time, but that now my writing is substantially better and I can tell my old writing is shit I can see that I really have improved a lot since then.

Yeah, my old work sucks, but the fact that I know it sucks means I'm getting better, because I thought it was the greatest thing ever when I first wrote it.

>>20860917
do you ever edit your old stories? I'm doing so for fun, and it's definitely making it better

>>20860908
Gardner’s work is always fucking astounding to see screenshots of. I see pages like these posted and then I remember that this is from an actual 200 page book, meant to be serious and there are a dozen books in his series.

>>20860923
I haven't yet, I don't have the passion or time to--my current WIP is 260k words, and it's my absolute best work. I just finished the first draft and I have a lot of editing and revising to do, so all of my time and attention is going towards that. Hilariously, the shitty old manuscript I went back and looked over was just about 250k words, so it would take just as long (probably longer, it would need more substantial edits) to edit the old story as the current one.

But this does sound like a great way to practice writing privately--no one would have to read the revised version, but using it to hone your skills sounds like a superb idea. Maybe I'll revise a couple of chapters of the old story when I'm struggling with the current one.

>>20860928
Who did it better? https://youtu.be/TedsiCaV2B4

>>20860928
this is some sort of surrealist.. satire. the setup, the reaction. it's actually genius.

How do I become a good videogame writer?
The characters are (mostly) SOLID, the plot is SOLID. I need better dialogue.

>>20860946
mind giving a bit more context? ..what are you trying to achieve?

>>20860946
Good video game dialogue needs to
>Not hit people over the head with what they already know
>Not try too hard to be self-aware
>Be succinct at all times
Can you post examples of what you have?

>>20860961
Ignore this guy, hell just keep wondering how to get better even after you give him advice. He's not serious

>>20860313
Saw my own book in a public library today.
Huge morale boost.

>>20860812
So any Japanese words?

Before you tell me to prove that my characters and plot are solid, I'll mention this.
I do my research, I love research and noting down themes, every single idea that comes to me is examined to the logical conclusion. Then I move into the negative and saturation, finally the alternative.
>>20860834
>>20860928
What is this? Is this guy good here? My current articy dialogue is better than this. Mind you, I didn't say good. It sucks in different ways.
>>20860965
I am serious now.
>>20860961
>>20860963
I want to explore branching dialogue, which needs characters that work in every level. You need to care about what they say and who they are to pick that fifth or sixth option on the menu and follow the path. Pique their interest to develop into organic rolepay.

I've played games with evident bad writing similar to the one I want to make, it takes me out of the world. 1 hour in and any interest was long gone and buried.

>Not hit people over the head with what they already know
I can see how I might have been doing this while trying to avoid it. I've gone too far into the opposite. Dialogue that resembles my favorite movies, obscure, obtuse, vague and disjointed.

I'm tired. I'm tired of having to bribe major publishers to publish my garbage. The curse of being born rich is that you literally never have a motive to improve. You can just pay people to pretend to like you.

>>20860553
How does this sound?
>Brute force is all you seem to use in combat. I don't imply you lack finesse, I'm saying that you’re far too straightforward and only use what first comes to mind in the heat of the moment. Regardless of how refined or graceful you are with your basic skills, just relying on those always makes you predictable and easy to read.

>>20860994
It’s by F. Gardner. The writer of Call of the Crocodile. And yes. He is beloved by this entire board and we have nothing but positive things to say about him and his books. Welcome to /lit/.

>>20861001
What is that book even about?

>>20861006

>>20860994
what sort of game are you writing for? will you be making it yourself?-- a vn/rpg maker game.. this is all very important. also, what sort of games do you play?

>>20860996
start writing under a new alias and see what you can achieve

>>20861012
Amazing

>>20861000
Bits and pieces of this are redundant or don't come across as casual enough
>Brute force is all you seem to use in combat
Don't need to specify "in combat", what else is he using brute force for?
>You rely on brute force too much.
Try that
>I don't imply you lack finesse
The grammar here is awkward
>Not that you're lacking finesse,
>I'm saying that you're
Some words are just "ugly" and "unnecessary" you have to avoid and "That" is really ugly
>I'm saying you're far too straight-forward, only using what first comes to mind
See?

>>20861017
My own project, yes.
It's very immersive sim-like, not fully but I love RPGs, Adventure games, text adventures and simulation. I like to feel like a game takes place in a world with a setting that feels alive. Let me get over my cringe and I'll see which heavily WIP interaction I'll post. Don't laugh at me.

>>20860839
CoTC is actually pretty good, but I think he does start to get lazier in his later works and he's just kind of riding off of CoTC

>>20860945
Agreed. Gardner is probably smarter than he has let on. He was the first person to think to write a book and try to advertise it via 4chan with Call of the Crocodile. He even started a minor literary movement due to other posters emulating his decision. We didn’t used to have /wg/ till around the time Gardner released that book and now there’s always a /wg/ thread and people talking about their own manuscripts. The pastebin of books from here? Probably wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for CotC. There weren’t any “4chan authors” till that guy came around.

>>20861092
I haven’t read them all. But I’ve noticed he does the “meta twist” thing over and over.

>>20861092
Author’s first works are usually their best.

>>20860783
I've never read a book that was over 100k and didn't feel like half of it was pointless filler

Fuck off Gardner.

I think my book cover is too edgy and overloaded. In hindsight, it would have been better if I'd used an AI-generated image, but it just wouldn't have felt right for me, and for the book.

Besides, I had a look back at all those old school book covers of horror books from the 90s and 80s and I thought it was neat how they reflected what actually happened in the book, instead of the minimalism of today.
At the same time, I didn't want to reveal too much from the very start, losing the shock value.
Instead, I just got certain aspects which appeared in the book and put it all on the cover. The image was created using Krita's mirror tool, in an attempt to make it feel more uncanny.

Day 68 editing
It's done.
353.4k words.
Two books.
One man.
We are all gonna make it.

>>20861225
>353.4k across two books
Isn't the limit people look for 120k? You didn't want to spread it across three?
Anyways, good fucking job anon

>>20861233
I have never heard of a book over 100k being published. I doubt a thing like that could even be printed without it falling apart under its own weight.

Last questions for now.
What will help me with my dialogue? I'm always reading a lot but it's hard to get good stuff out.
When defining the main personality of the player character? How overt do you think one should be? The answer is personal but quality wise. What do you say /wg/?
Let's take Disco Elysium as the gold standard.

On a very minor interaction I have no problems writing character for what would be minor characters on a movie, there's less room to make a mistake. On those types it's my PC who worries me, should I fully stick to what type of person they are or could be at all times? I know the quality answer is yes but I'm very insecure about dialogue.

>>20861112
Wtf I love Gardner now.
>>20861162
He’s right though. 4chan’s been out for 20 years. All of these observations are coincidences?

>>20861112
This is blowing my mind. Fucking F Gardner is retroactively responsible for these generals kek.

>>20861292
Played like a damn fiddle!

>>20860313
Suggestion. Remove the following from the OP:

>Anime Writing (^･o･^)
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4on26mKakgs [Embed]
>https://www.wikihow.com/Create-an-Anime-Story

Replace with the following:

Anime Writing
>Manga in Theory and Practice, Araki
>https://b-ok.cc/book/3512088/790fd6

>>20860683
Just make it and because you are the first member of your audience realize that you get to see its flaws before anyone else in the world.

>I know I can tell my story in my head, and have it there safely, all to myself.
Yet you won't understand how it can be improved or its faults until it has a tangible form. You have to edit your work. But you can't edit without a rough draft and you can't make a final copy without a revised draft.

You don't just eat cake mix. You follow the steps of a recipe in the correct order to make a cake. You're not adding eggs after its been baking for twenty minutes at three hundred and fifty degrees.

Similarly you have to get your ideas out to know what you have, and then craft those ideas into a rough draft, and then improve those ideas through revision, then continue with editing until you're satisfied with it enough for it to be considered a final draft. You may even have the luxury of letting someone else read the revised draft to catch something you missed.

The greater issue with it being in your head is that over time you will forget it and its pertinent details. It's your treasure to squander or harvest.

Why are all my story ideas genre fiction? I think that perhaps I struggle to come up with a strong story idea that can stand on it's own, so end up setting it in some sci-fi or fantasy setting as a crutch.

>>20860834
>Looking at the illustrations, he stares at them
Beautiful

>>20861455
Fiction allows us to make up for our lack of familiarity with a subject by substituting experience with arbitration.

>>20861495
Surely the distinction between literary and genre fiction is that genre fiction is more formulaic whereas literary fiction is more unique and plot driven?
Can your point be cast onto this as your story would transform from lit fiction to genre when you don't have the familiarity with the character, events, and tools used to write it? And does that mean that writing genre fiction can prepare you for writing lit fiction?

>>20861224
Anon, this is the ugliest fucking shit I have ever seen. Please do yourself a favour, skip some meals and pay 100 bucks to some art school student to make some half decent cover if you don't want to repel any potential readers. With a severe lack of aesthetic judgement like that I'm pretty sure the writing is absolutely dreadful as well, so a not-ugly cover art is your only chance to get someone to read it at all. Best of luck anyways

So I finished chapter 34 and I figure the story is done now. Chapter 35 and 36 are just an epilogue set 6 months later about the new lives the characters are living after the changes in their religious perspectives were completed.
So what I'm wondering is if such an epilogue is even warranted. I very much want to show the happiness my MCs have found in their new circumstances, but is that sappy? Would it be better to end the book once the shift has been completed and let the readers imagine how things will turn out for them afterwards? Is showing concrete changes in their lifestyles something people would endure two chapters of, knowing the story itself is already done and no new drama is forthcoming?

>>20861455
perhaps you either aren't wordily enough, or actually interested in people. there's sort of a spectrum.

>>20861524
Thanks you

>>20861561
worldly*, or experienced. have you lived an interesting life, or has anyone had an impact on you? doesn't hurt to imitate either, but you need some sort of inspiration

how pissed off would you be reading a book where the text mentions things that end up having no relevance, no point, and no payoff at least twice per page?

>>20861224
Yeah, this cover is terrible. I will say that even if you can't afford to comission a good artist to create compelling artwork, typography is the one thing that is 100% in your control and easy to do correctly, and even the typography is egregious here.

That being said, you have two options if you want a good cover: either shell out a couple hundred bucks to someone who knows what they're doing (I used Miblart, no complaints), or if you decide to do it yourself, do artwork that is simple yet elegant. You don't need to be a good illustrator, you just need to give half a shit about graphic design. Do something simple yet elegant like pic related.

>don't use awful art
>don't use awful font
>don't use awful font color
>don't make your name so tiny, and it shouldn't be squished so firmly against the bottom of the trim. There should be more space there.

Look up examples of minimalist design, there are also plenty of excellent book covers that utilize simple black and white silhouettes whose style would be easy to copy, even for a total art novice.

You and I both know this isn't your best work, and perhaps it's because you're not proud of it that you made your name so tiny.

If you don't have the financial means to commission a cover, make one that you're proud of, and make your name a bit bigger.

>>20860980
That's amazing, not-so-anonymous Lewis. I wake up every day and write hoping I get to be in your shoes one of these days.

>>20861242
Good bait

>>20861225
Good job, how long did it take you in total, and how many words did you write a day on average? On my own journey but only 12,000 words into first draft currently so v early days

>>20861233
>>20861242
but that's just 12 chapters

>>20860876
I wrote a 20k novella and was somewhat happy with it when it was finished. But then I figured out a way to improve my writing with later stories I worked on and I've been meaning to go back and rewrite the bulk of it (keeping the dialogue untouched basically).

Changed from 3rd person to 1st.
General overall improvement in prose too.

About two pages into the rewrite and its already much better.

>>20861278
>He’s right though
>He
Fuck off Gardner.

>>20861542
Personally I prefer to wonder what it will be like rather than be told. Think about Harry Potter and how JK Rowling stuck on the '19 years later' or however long it was. It's okay, I guess. But I think readers would have preferred to imagine it for themselves.

You'll also run the risk of shooting yourself in the foot if you want to do a sequel. Tolkien was tortured by the phrase 'he lived happily, til the end of his days' when writing Lord of the Rings.

Who is the epilogue serving? If you've done your job right then the reader should already have lots to go on for what the future will bring for your characters. If you're asking yourself whether you need it or not, you probably don't need it.

>>20861233
Thanks anon
>>20861664
Danke, took about 10 months with a minimum of 1k words a day, which I generally exceeded.
You can do it mang, just set yourself a minimum pace and stick to it.

>>20861726
>a sequel
This is an attempt at literary fiction, the sheer idea of doing sequels is contrary to the nature of a complete story. It's just that this epilogue was always my planned ending, it has this line of narration that bookends the whole thing.
I just don't know man. Whether I need it or not I still want it.

>>20861628
I think this looks better
at least it isn't raping my eyes
and it has a coherent colour scheme

>>20861278
neck yourself Gardner
the earth isn't flat and you're a hack with rich parents

I'm not a writer but how bad is it to only ever get the impulse to write after you've read something which made you want to essentially copy it?
Recently read The Name of the Rose and I really want to write something like that but I just don't know enough to pull it off

>>20862044
Umberto Eco did 7 years of research per novel

>>20862069
I thought he just wrote it on a whim and had studied medieval europe for decades before then?
How do you think you should take this approach with an invented world?

>>20862070
>on a whim
Hahaha, no.
>invented world
Well there's not much to research there.

>>20862079
Maybe I was wrong, I thought he started writing it because someone asked him to write a detective story
Anyway, I meant more the richness that you get from the setting of the Name of the Rose

>>20861298
Suggestion. Remove aml anime links and go to fucking /a/

>>20860313
Can you tell whether whatever it is you're writing is good or bad?

>>20862098
Well Eco is highly referential to other texts, so you'd have to do the same and fill your book with intertextuality.

>>20862124
Good, because I write non anime non lir rpg stories like an adult.
>oooooo God I gotta coooom and consoooom

>>20862131
Mitch Albom. That's all

Kind of have an idea for a story thats a little like a mix between The Colour out of Space and Annihilation. just riffing, would like some feedback on these passages.
>Those unfortunate souls who dare get close enough to see their own twisted visage reflected in the crystalline surface of the reservoir seem changed for both taking something from the lake and leaving some of themselves within it.
>Ethereal. That was the word most who had experienced the bounties of the lake had best used to describe its qualities when regaling their encounter.
>Truth is I couldn’t tell you the extent to which i tested those waters, the only record that remains is what was written in earlier pages of this memoir. My mind and sensibilities have been warped and influenced by the waters of that pond to such a degree that I find it hard focusing my thoughts on anything else. Yet im better for it. I’ve bathed in the fountain of youth and its waters have washed away my sins. My penance is my devotion.
>It haunts my recollection. My memories from before my encounter with the lake have been dampened. And everything after is diluted by my desire to return.

>Scene that was supposed to take half a page turned into 6 pages of femdom lesbian smut
Christ, why am I like this? It goes against their character traits too, it's seriously just thinly veiled fetish porn for the sake of thinly veiled fetish porn.

>>20862170
DAAAWG look at our anime authors jaw width, WE AINT NEVA GOIN MAKE IT

>>20862218
What does this mean. I've been rereading this for a straight minute

>published book
>Open and read it
>Close.it immediately
Anyone else embarrassed by their own writing?

>>20862276
what book? embarrass me with your writing

>>20862276
I'll be honest, I stopped feeling this after a while. I get mad about the occasional typo or instance of fucky wording that slips through edit passes, but I've reached the point where I can read my own work and enjoy it. I don't do it very often at all and haven't read more than maybe 1/10th of any of my books in one stretch, but still.

>>20862241
If you look like that author you should probably KYS.

>>20862301
The only way for me to enter "reader mode" is to pick my book from the start which is a pain in the ass, otherwise I will just be invested in editing some wording into I sidegrade

>>20861224
>>20861891
WTF is up with those font?

>>20860928
yfw gang weed the movie is unironically better than call of the crocodile

>>20862392
you don't like cursive font?

>>20862412
they're called serifs

>>20862396
Is there a word that encapsulates the feeling a reader would experience after seeing this? It's not quite cringe but it's not predictable either, it's really doing my head in.

>>20862396
What makes the gang weed script so shit?

>>20862432
Orgasm?

>>20862446
I don't know. I wrote it. Currently we're rewriting the principal characters to speak in poetic verse.

>>20862418
Serifs are the thin extra lines added to a letter
a cursive font is a font meant to emulate handwriting

Another one fresh off the dome.
>The further I ventured into the soggy maw, the louder its resounding madness echoed through the canals of my thoughts.

I also want my prose to mimic the narrators descent into madness. perhaps by making the descriptions more verbose and unrelateable.

>>20862446

Intentional twists on visual and linguistic cliches that “doubles down” on their characteristic element in a way that is functionally useless - drawing attention to the perfunctory nature of the cliche. (Smoking two cigarettes at once)

Anticlimactic word choice (sex muffin, Detroit, tax evasion)

It’s very much so bad it’s good to me though. I kind of enjoy it. I think there’s actually quite a difficult artistry to stuff like this where you want to flirt with the line where it could be mistaken for sincere.

>I can tell my story in my head, and have it there safely, all to myself.
was watching this youtube video yesterday. it was the interview of a successful writer. he makes millions of dollars per year. he said that every day he struggles to start writing. he said it was like jumping into cold water. but once he started writing, he was fine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhVcxOl9_8k

Getting a second short story published in a print lit mag. But it feels like a curse more than actual success. I’ve got myself all fucked up thinking everything I write must get published. I worry I’ll give up when faced with actual rejection, which is inevitable for all writers.

>Anyone else embarrassed by their own writing?
just revise it and upload it.

>>20862481
Sit down and write something complete garbage. Maybe a 5 page sci-fi with plot holes up the wazoo. Just get it out of your system, works for me.

>>20862493

This actually sounds kind of fun. Thanks anon. I will try exactly this

> no more /ffa/
I forgot cover-anon is collecting flashes posted in /wg/. I think when there are enough he will publish them, but I don't know the details.

>>20862412
This thing completely falls apart forty minutes in

Finally, 9000 words.

>>20862564

Congrats anon. What’s the target?

>>20860683
What would you rather do? Push buttons and get rewarded with fleeting and meaningless shit? Just jerk off on your couch or walk around staring at the clouds waiting to fall apart from old age?

The story isn't safe in your head, neither is it the same story you are able to put on paper, no matter how hard you try. You've been reaching in the cookie jar of culture, now make sure you put something back.

>>20862471
Yeah, once I fix the meter, I have to do a continuity check for all the cigarettes and alarm clocks etc.

Trying to flesh out some of these passages and get a real plot going:
>The rigid stone passageways etched with increasingly incoherent scripture gave way to porous caverns whose very walls seemed to weep at my arrival. The primal sinew that made up the fibrous walls were carved by some time forgotten entity who neither cared about being remembered nor had the capacity to do so. The further I ventured into the soggy maw, the louder its resounding madness echoed through the canals of my thoughts.
Please Respond..

>>20862541
same impression i had raping your baby sister

I'm writing a new book lads. I now have 4 active projects

>>20862721
hit me with that opening hook brother.

>>20862666
Maybe something like
>My fingers traveled over the incoherent scriptures etched into the stone as they gently travelled over the rough surface, and as I trailed along their form they engraved themselves deep into my memory, burrying themselves deeper and deeper into the furthest reaches of my subconscious. Every touch caused them to weep, as if remembering the vile beast which had marked and violated them for the first time. Letting go, feeling as if I had desecrated sacred ground, I kept going further into the maw. With every step the screams grew louder, its resounding madness echoed through the canals of my thoughts.
come on, let your character touch the wall

>>20862666

Anon, it sounds like you are in an early stage of the project. It's best not to fret and handwring over the prose right now. You'll get nowhere and write almost nothing and see no progress. I generally don't even bother with the finer details of the prose till the third/last draft. The minute details of your sentences are easily changed, and far less important than the larger scale structure.

But, I am feeling kind and you asked so here's some suggestions:

>The rigid stone passageways etched with increasingly incoherent scripture gave way to porous caverns whose very walls seemed to weep at my arrival.
This is the sentence with the most structural issues, it's quite hard to follow at first glance. I had to read it a second time. The main issue is that some of the clauses run into each other a bit, but this can be solved with some commas. The sentence is also a bit long and features too much detail. It's hard to tell what is the distinct piece of information I am supposed to take away.

>The primal sinew that made up the fibrous walls were carved by some time forgotten entity who neither cared about being remembered nor had the capacity to do so.
Again, this is a bit long and the detail occludes what the sentence is actually trying to say to me. I also feel that "sinew" and "fiberous" clash, though I can see the image you are trying to go for. I would pick one of the two. But again this feels different to porous. Am I looking at the walls of the caverns? Porous I think more like a sponge rather than arranged in long strands like sinew. It's also unclear what the past character did not have the capacity for: the actual act of remembering? or caring about whether they are remembered? I don't think it's important.

> The further I ventured into the soggy maw, the louder its resounding madness echoed through the canals of my thoughts.
Again with soggy and porous I'm really thinking a sponge, and yet I've been told it is also not a sponge. I see what you are going for with water and canal I think. but it just doesn't work. It feels asthetically quite at odds. Also echo and resounding are redundant and repeat, choose one.

But I sincerely think you shouldn't care about this stuff right now. You might want something totally different when you go back to look at it after reaching the end.

>>20862795
>>20862666

To add a bit of encouragement, it's got a lovecraftian feel that really appeals to me. I think some of the word choice is a bit off, but you are really close and it is creating a creepy asthetic that evokes that sort of cosmic horror well. Stumbling across some demented shrine to an ancient, vengeful god long forgotten etc

>>20862666
if you want to write in this high tone, you also need to construct complex sentences. Try rewriting this as a single sentence, since it's trying to be the rambling of an intellectual mind as it descends into a pit of madness. It's not that hard to write a sentence that is at once very structurally complex and still easy to understand, but it's something you need to practice.

>>20862742
Maddy saw his big erect member.

Why does it feel like everyone writes their story in first person?

>>20862681
Lost

>>20862861
Some people recommend that pov for first time authors. Mine is third person but the second project is first person because I want the reader to relate to the protag more because he is fairly unsympathetic and I'd like for him to speak directly to the readers.

>>20862666
Nice digits. I'm sure you like the line "the louder its resounding madness echoed through the canals of my thoughts" but the only reason you would ever write the rest of that paragraph is to avoid stating flatly that he's going mad. It's as redundant as "rigid stone" is, and overall detrimental to the piece.

My mind was made up that night. It would be only a matter of time before soldiers and other guests would come to the hunter’s lodge and ask Molly when she saw me. Any fool can then corroborate her testimony and description of my face with Doraldo’s. One direct witness was already troublesome, two, would be disastrous. This left me with an unfortunate, but necessary decision. Molique-Breean Du’voure must die.
Laying flat on my cot, the moonlight illuminated my face, running different the risks and scenarios in my head. Killing Molly would be easy; the difficulty lies in disposing her body. Although she managed the hunter’s lodge alone, it would be reasonable for those that use this amenity to question where she went. Compounding this with the missing Father Warrick, it would be most logical for the officials to be on high alert, dealing with a ship filled with the dead, a missing Father, and a soon to be missing lodge hostess. A small detail crept in my mind. It may have been a mistake to let Ferdinand live as well. Just then, as the clouds shaded the moon, an idea — or more accurately, a solution to this conundrum, appeared before me. The boars roaming the forest were the answer. Swine ate anything ranging from the wild berries that grew on the bushes, to the filth that men left behind. Surely they would eat human flesh as well.

>This too much telling?

Does this general or anyone here have resources on purchasing typewriters? Retro or contemporary clones.
>inb4 muh pseud
I want an IBM Selectric or equivalent to play with, not a fucking vintage antique to sit around and LARP with.

>>20862753
this is pretty interesting. I viewed the protagonist as a bystander who became corrupted by the beast, i feel this makes it more interesting though having the protagonist unknowingly be the desecrator of the beast while simultaneously being corrupted by its madness, and it plays into the idea of assimilation very well.

>>20862795
by this point the protagonist ventures into the mouth of the beast so he's succumb somewhat to its madness, the stone walls are supposed transition into more of a damp bark kind of texture and then into flesh so perhaps porous is the wrong phrasing.
--

> It's also unclear what the past character did not have the capacity for: the actual act of remembering? or caring about whether they are remembered? I don't think it's important.
Its supposed to be somekind of incomprehensible eldritch being - almost like the beast is out of place in time and space (and so would be the being that marked the walls), so much so that the human protagonist is some kind of cosmic horror to the beast, as if sentience only exists within humans.

From the kind of plan I have in my head this is also the third act where our protagonist has stopped resisting the call of the void and is kind of giving in to it.

>>20862807
Thats kind of what I was going for so it bodes well

>>20862809
>>20862869
this is also super helpful because I've never really written anything before so it's good to know where im going wrong fundementally.

>>20861891
The front is much better, but the back and spine need to be reworked. Look at books you have on your shelf; no traditionally-published book will have a black void with a cheesy white san-serif font on the back. And the spine is a clustered disaster.

I would change the font on the front to something less cheesy (that font is corny as hell), but other than that the typography on the front is much better.

Use GoogleFonts, there's thousands to choose from and you can type out the book title so that you can see what the title looks like in each font. Filter out "sans-serif" and :cursive" fonts because none of those are a good idea.

>>20862873
first of all, it's always "I made up my mind that night." unless somebody else is literally making up his mind for him. If this is your opening you need to spend more time establishing the character. The first paragraph might as well be:
>I made up my mind that night: Molique-Breean Du’voure must die.
I don't want to reinforce "show, don't tell" because it's a pretty shitty heuristic for writing, it's more that you need to focus on describing the landscape of your protagonist's brain. It sounds like he's a psychopath murderer, so spend more time emphasizing exactly how much of a psycho he is, and if it's based on anger or principles or just mental illness.

>>20862541
most other people have gotten past the first page by that time albeit
>>20862681
lmao

>>20862995
I specifically meant the Mad God stop motion movie, which the post I was replying to was the poster for.

>>20862564
so one chapter?

>>20862742
Alright I'm making these up quickly but here's the quick look at the projects

>A multi installment series about a king as he ages, falls in love, goes to war, gets his heart broken, etc. Really deep character study. Alternative history. [Writing]
>A technician is wrongly profiled as a galactic warlord by an interstellar crime syndicate. He challenges them to a bowling tournament. Shenanigans ensue. Farce comedy [finished]
>Foibles of corporate America in the vein of Catch-22. Follows a new worker in his attempts to keep his job since its the only way he's not out in the streets. Hilarious loopholes, senseless projects, retarded corporate jargon, etc. Satire. [Planning]
>Ulysses but with an MMO online setting. Stream chats, game chats, server chats, private messages, forum posts, everything we do online every day. Main character just gets out of the hospital and has a major region war with his guild that night. Also follows the Odyssey. [Planning/Writing]

>>20863020
hit me with the opening paragraph of [2]Attila The Tech: Strike! the heart of the Martian Cartel.

The first part of my forced-feminisation sissy-hypnosis story. I'm pleased with how it's going so far; I hope I don't run out of steam.

The plot twist is that there is no wife -- at least, not yet...

>>20861029
>You rely on brute force too much. Not that you lack finesse, it’s just that you’re far too straightforward, only using what first comes to mind in the heat of the moment. Regardless of how refined or graceful you are with your basic skills, just relying on those will always make you predictable and easy to read.
Better?

What are some good books for learning more about the technical aspects of writing, other than the ones mentioned at the top of the thread.

>>20862988
Thank you. It's actually just an excerpt in the middle of the story. But that's good to heat

>>20862650
This reads like there's a guy whose epithet is 'Bulletproof Patrice'.

>>20863139
i'll add the word "that," good call

>>20862898
checked everything, now I just have to wait for the changes to happen
thank you

>>20863020

Fuck, the third was something I had been toying with and am honestly amazed isn’t a super common theme. So it makes sense someone beat me to it. Office life is hell

Daily reminder that you guys are faggots who couldn't tell the difference between a shit story and a great one. Carry on.

>>20863454
Which piece did you put up here for critique that got rekt? T'loran, bucksneed, something more obscure?

>>20863454
As if you do Gardner.

>>20863470
lmfao T'loran. I remember that one. I met the guy on discord and told him I was the one who replied with T'faggot and he was malding and told me "you're the reason why /wg/ is shit." before he left the server. T'loran guy is unfortunately permabanned from 4chan

>>20863262
You can write it too anon. I'm living all this shit every day that it's only sensible I write about it. But I think I need to get it done before the collapse or no one will buy it.

>>20863470
Nope, none of them. The reason why I say none of you faggots can't discern good writing and bad writing is because someone asked me to critique their story and it was a hokey steaming pile of garbage. I presented the story to a /lit/ discord server, the same people that visit this board, and they told me THIS was actually quite good. I just about left when I realized I was surrounded by idiots.

>>20863489
It reads like narrative for a film, not a letter to a gentleman. Especially the italicized "patrons" at the end is a near dead giveaway of someone who watches more TV and film than they read books.

>>20863494
When I asked him beforehand what its about he replied with

> *cracks knuckles. It's about a boy who lives in Georgia, writing letters to deal with the wonderment of his mothers suicide. Plus other stuff.

>>20863489
>discord server
It's okay everybody, you can safely disregard this opinion and skip reading it altogether frankly.

How dark is too dark?

>>20863560
Dark is fine. Grim is shit.
Aragorn leading an army to their deaths to buy time for Frodo to throw the ring into Mt.Doom is dark, but it isn't grim, because we know because of their deaths, the forces of good have a chance.

>>20863560
"Olive" skin tones are the cutoff.

>>20863560
If you can at least see anything to make the story happen, it's not too dark, don't be a pussy. This >>20863581 is housewife fodder

>I can recognize that using my writing to seek the approval of others is stupid and less than pointless
>I can recognize that the struggles I've been experiencing forcing myself to write are only causing me suffering
>tfw I still want to write because I don't want to throw away my purpose

what am I doing?

>>20863858

I am also here bro. But sometimes when I manage to get a short story published it’s really something. I can’t say it’s happiness or that it fixes everything but it resonates within me

>>20862873
Delete that sentence that says she must die. It’s tacky and the following sentence implies it anyway. Also delete the line saying boars are the answer. For the same reason. Never say things that are obvious or implicit.

>>20863560
As with anything, it's too much when it starts reading like a fetish.

How to write someone charismatic in a way that feels honest and real? Restrained bubbly dialogue?

>>20863949
>h-how do i be charasmatic
you don't that's why you're asking

>>20863973
I actually am, voice helps. I just don't know enough to take that into writing.

>>20860735
>You've heard memes. For fantasy, 100k is a good benchmark for a debut. If you're writing epic fantasy, tradpubs are happy to buy *much* larger wordcounts if the story holds up. The problem is that very, very few debut writers can manage stories that large.

Absolutely true. I'm lucky enough to have a family member that's the editor-in-chief of a mid sized publisher who's done work with several fantasy authors, some of whom are of the epic-fantasy variety. The most important drawback from that conversation was to: A) Not get trapped in editing hell while trying to perfect the first few chapters. Lots of first-time authors (myself included) apparently fall into the pitfall of splitting hairs, trying to make everything perfect from the start and end up getting burned out and depressed from failing to make any progress since they're stuck editing over and over all the time.

And B) To not worry too much about wordcount and story size, but story content. According to her, people tend to take on these super ambitious passion projects of insane scale and size and end up either making the story way too rushed, way too slow or way too complicated in their first installment, trying to shove too much exposition and explanation in from the get-go. On the flip side, people also make these really barebones introductory books that don't explain fuck all and have no stakes yet expect the reader to buy Book#2 on the notion that "This is where it gets good."

>>20860786
Yeah, people want something they can get lost in. Big expansive worlds with big expansive lore and vivid descriptions of every pebble on the side of the road.
I've been lucky enough to have a family member who's the editor-in-chief for a mid-size publisher, and the first thing she told me when I pitched my idea is to not worry too much about word-counts when it comes to writing fantasy and epic fantasy, the latter especially.

>>20863993
>I actually am
said no charismatic person ever

>>20864072
Such a simple question. You could have ignored my post but you had to drag me into this bullshit penis contest. Kill yourself.

>>20863998
Oh can you pitch our books to your Aunt?

>>20863949
Have their charisma charm the other characters is what works for me. I have an MC who just ended war with a foreign nation that's been going on since his birth and during diplomacy he finds he really likes the foreign leader, who is charismatic, even though he hates the nation.

>>20864084
just proved my point

>>20863949
>charisma
>bubbly
No. charisma is anti bubbly

>>20861112
Why exactly did so many people rush to publishing books from here after Call of the Crocodile? I just checked the list of books from here. You’re kinda right, I guess. Call of the Crocodile was the first. But why did it take so long for someone (Gardner) to publish a book from 4chan? I can’t believe that alone started a whole trend but it clearly did. Otherwise there would’ve been other writers from here before that book.

>>20864148
Gardner was simply the first person to act on it and do it. So, he inadvertently started a fad. And these generals were a result. Clown world is funny like that.

>>20864148
a lot of people started writing books because of the covid lockdowns. nothing to do with that faggot gardner

>>20864161
I don’t think that alone makes sense. 4chan’s been out since 03.

>>20864148
It’s a coincidence, goy!

>>20864172
back then people took anonymity more seriously. imagine broadcasting that you're writing a book by posting about it here. LOL

>>20864161
So everyone had the exact same idea to write a book once Covid happened and Gardner was just the first and most successful? I suppose that’s semi plausible.

Because I was actually writing short stories, outlines and drafts of the first novel as early as 5 years ago but didn't have the time or wherewithal to come close to finishing anything until the past year.
(You)

>>20864196
>idea to write a book
time. the time to actually get around to doing it. gardner gained first mover advantage by not editing his book(s)

>>20864148
Gardner also wrote an entire series. Look up Call of the Crocodile if you don’t believe me. He has 11 books in that series now. The reason was that he was both the first and he had the most books. But Call of the Crocodile was the only book of his to ever go viral around here. Notice that no one talks about his other books? Only Call of the Crocodile.

>>20864213
Eh that sounds like a cope. I don’t even read Gardner. But most self pub books have grammatical issues.

>>20864213
>Gardner is rich
>Gardner can’t afford to hire an editor.

You guys are so inconsistent here and let your jealously of Faggot Gardner blind you. He writes a popular genre and can shit out his books quickly. It’s not a complicated matter.

>>20864219
I won't call them "grammatical issues".
>>20860928
>>20860834

>Imagine people here getting so worked up over F Gardner’s popularity.

Gardner is a fucking Penny Dreadful. The F list version of Stephen King. Why the fuck are you guys constantly obsessing over some generic pulp writer?

>>20864249
Welcome to /wg/.

>>20864229
I don't think Gardner can't afford an editor. From interacting with him a few times, I am fully convinced that he is too delusional to ever consider hiring an editor.

>>20864260
Elaborate? Do you really know him or is this another LARP here

>>20864249
We're regularly raided by his Discord butt buddies. No one who actually browses lit, of their own free will and volition, ever brings up Frank, because he's not respectable, interesting, or worth talking about, and I consider any post with his name in it a result of his Discord butt buddies shilling to get his approval.

>>20864270
Yes I know F Gardner. I’m his boyfriend.

You guys should stick to a story under 50k for your first book.
Preferably no more than 20k. Anything more and you’ll either have trouble finishing it, the writing will be shitty, or both.
Just being honest. Hope that helps. I realize 99% of you will ignore this advice though.

>>20864249
Nobody is jealous Gardner. They're exhausted with your sociopathic bullshit.

>>20863210
Sure, if you need more resources, consult this:
https://lousybookcovers.com/

This is a blog that makes fun of bad book covers, but also gives tips to indie authors on how they can design better covers under the "cover design" tab.

For more advanced material, check this out: https://youtu.be/93u0HDHZApU

>>20864270
He joined a /wg/ associated discord server named "The Unreal Brotherhood" (yes, mega cringe, I know) and caused the whole thing to go up in flames with his turboautism, as he would constantly get in idiotic arguments with members about everything from his books to flat earth theorites and islam, always threatening to leave the server when his room-temprature IQ led him to getting pissy. The brainfuck retards running the thing deemed Gardner's presence more important than anything else up to and including the server's continued existence, so members left en masse until I eventually dropped the place as well.

>>20864213
Editing 1 book doesn’t take as long as writing a 12 or whatever book series. This doesn’t really make sense and only would fit if Gardner wrote and published a couple books in that timeframe.

>>20860619

If your primary goal in becoming any kind of artist is becoming rich/famous then you’re going to fail and have a bad time along the way.

Create for yourself, not for others. If you actually enjoy writing then in writing what you want you cannot fail, you can only succeed more. The worst case scenario is that you’re going to have fun.

>>20864348
I'm in that server and I originally joined discord because I kept hearing about some kind of "discord conspiracy" to shill Gardner's work as an ironic meme, apparently trying to build him up as the Chrischan of /lit/. I haven't seen him argue or spam or anything, but then again I've only been there for a few months.

In regards to the Gardner discord conspiracy theory: the reality is that some anons just think it's funny. Nobody has so far admitted to making the shill threads and nobody is posting screencaps of responses from frustrated anons to laugh about. It's just idiots being stupid for their own amusement.

>>20860786

Makes sense. These days novels cover more and more exotic material. The great gatsby is set in a somewhat grounded depiction of the world at the time it was written.

If you have things that are unfamiliar to the audience and fail to describe them properly it might hurt the work. Granted you don’t have to describe every detail but describing the scenery in a bit more detail than ‘it exists’. If you ever read dune without seeing any adaptation beforehand you may know what I’m talking about.

Another good that happens to be a Light novel is ‘Ascendance of a Bookworm’. that thing literally wouldn’t work if it didn’t describe everything in an autistic detail, seeing on how alien it’s world is to us.

>>20864684
Nice try Gardner.

>>20864087
Not until I rework my manuscript after she fucked it into the dirt the first time around.

I am here to shill my novel.
You expected horror from Gardner.
Let me give you actual horror.

>>20864789
Horrible WRITING LMFAO HEY

>>20864823
kys gardner

>>20864823
Damn.
I kneel.

>>20864789
I actually respect F Gardner for never making cheap shots like this guy here. Assuming you’re actually the author of that book and not just some asshole trying to make it seem like his book is better.

>>20864842
That is a pretty good way to ruin a reputation. I’m in a server with Gardner too and I’ve never seen him do that kinda stuff. He is oddly professional.

>>20861628

I’m not the same guy but remember that push comes to shove you can always go with ‘free e-book of a public domain work’ and grab some old paining somewhat related to the text.

>>20864842
You're still not fooling anyone Gardner. Seriously, go hang yourself irl.

>all these anons larping that they know gardener

>>20864873
It's just gardner doing gardner things.

>>20864873
>>20864870
>>20864862
>>20864842
>>20864826
>>20864823

All of these people are gardner. This board needs ID's.

>>20864873
I don’t care if you believe me.
>>20864877
I also don’t really care. But after talking to the guy I am convinced he never even comes here.
>>20864882
Get a life.

>>20864884
>>20864882
>>20864877
>>20864873
>>20864862
>>20864842
>>20864833
>>20864826
>>20864823

When it comes to coming up with a plot, how true is this?

> everything is driven by fear or lust. As in, things we want to avoid or things we want. If you have a premise, what is it that people want in said premise but want to avoid? Create hurdles and threats.

Emilyanon, why would you write a character like Kate?

>>20864942
Just wanting a glass of milk isn't lust.

>>20864898
F Gardner is a genius in the way that these posters all consistently argue about him. This is literal free advertising and the idea of him being behind every single post is absolutely insane. Congratulations anon. You are shilling Gardner and have been baited by someone who’s not even him.

>>20864969
Transparent. I bet your posts make up half the posts of any given /wg/.

>>20864963
well that quote is from frued, so he calls anything you want, lust

>>20864942
If you are actively trying to learn to plot, stick to the three act structure, graduate when you think you are ready.

>>20864884
Gardner barely even talks about his books. He seems to care more about talking about flat earth crap.

>>20864969
You're not even a halfwit Gardner.

What makes a novel "literary"? Can near-future dystopia fiction be literary?

>>20865143
>What makes a novel "literary"?
When your work contributes to the state of the art.
>Can near-future dystopia fiction be literary?
In practice almost never.

I'm not sure if this is the right thread.
I was reading this fragment from the sep on Proclus and I'm a bit confused. Maybe someone ITT can help me, since I'm not a native English speaker.

> Every body has by its own nature the capacity to be acted upon, every incorporeal thing the capacity to act, the former being in itself inactive, the latter impassive; but through association with the body, the incorporeal too is acted upon, just as bodies too can act because of the participation in incorporeal entities.

>In this proposition Proclus first sets apart the corporeal and incorporeal as being active/impassible and passive/inactive respectively. However, the two realms are not absolutely separate from each other.

First line is from Proclus, second line is from the author of the article. Shouldn't the author have said that:
> corporeal and incorporeal as being passive/inactive and active/impassible respectively.
instead of
>corporeal and incorporeal as being active/impassible and passive/inactive respectively.
?

Isn't the corporeal passive and inactive? I either don't understand the fragment from Proclus, or I'm not understanding the way the author uses "respectively" in this context. I take it to mean this:
>a and b are 1 and 2, respectively
>a is 1 and b is 2

I've been struggling for weeks. I have an excellent premise, but I have no idea how to execute it. All this time, I've been wondering... is it really worth it to write something truly original?

Then I went into the reddit rabbit hole and discovered a post from someone who got successful writing contemporary romance. They made over a million dollars just by writing formulaic generic romance shit. I realized something... I don't care if I don't ever write something genuinely original. I would be genuinely impressed with myself if I could write something that made that much money. That's why I've decided to stop writing whatever comes to mind and follow the tried and true romance novel plot beats. That is my new goal.

>>20865011
Snoymund Pseud

>>20864969
It's obviously you, Gardner.
You got banned 3 days ago after one of your usual schizo freakouts.
Literally no one mentioned you in those 3 days.
Now your ban has ended, and wouldn't you know it, there's a flood of sadcringe lolcow shill-spam self-stroking.
You can't possibly be so stupid that you don't realize how obvious you are.
I wish /lit/ had IDs so you couldn't samefag anymore.
Or that the mods would just permaban your worthless ass.

>>20864898
Lmao dumb fucking janny tried to ban me for "Racism" over this post but it got rejected

>>20865253
I think you need to stop reading pseudo-science bullshit in a vague attempt to sound intelligent.

>>20865289
>true romance
Billionaire BDSM romance is where it’s at, Anon. Bonus point if the female lead is a serial killer/ assassin/ psychopathic bitch. Think Bruce Wayne and Salina Kyle.

>>20865309
I'm not really interested in Proclus, except from a historical perspective maybe. I just want to understand that part specifically, as a reading exercise. I thought people here can help me since writing good means you read well.

Can I post my Fantasy YA story?

>>20865370
Post it to pastebin, or catbox.moe, not here directly.

>>20865143
>Can near-future dystopia fiction be literary?
Nabokov seemed to think no, calling Orwell a pornographer.

With that said, I preferred BNW to Bend Sinister though I have to concede that Bend Sinister is the more literary book.

>>20865339
>I thought people here can help me since writing good means you read well.

The "good" here was tongue-in-cheek, right?

Either way, no, writing well does not follow from speaking, thinking, or even reading well. That is a trap to fall into. Remember, Wittgenstein had a stutter and was notorious for his aphasic lapses in the middle of sentences.

I've found in my few years of writing as a hobby that very few people (academics especially) can plot, let alone write a story with literary merit.

>>20865304
It's hilarious. You can say canadians all you want here, but the moment you bring up the merchant class, you get banned.

>>20865438
>Remember, Wittgenstein had a stutter and was notorious for his aphasic lapses in the middle of sentences.
I haven't heard of that before, that's an interesting story.

Can you help me with my issue, please? Either the author misused "respectively" or I'm misunderstanding a fucking paragraph, which makes me mad. It's as stupid as your story about aphasia.

>>20865477
>which makes me mad. It's as stupid as your story about aphasia
?? Is this an ESL thing where I've misunderstood you, or are you saying that my story about Wittgenstein was a non sequitur?

Either way, I'm sure there's a classics thread you could be shitting up instead of coming here raging about pseud academia fucking up an interpretation of Proclus.

This thread is about writing, not neoplatonics.

>>20864969
The fact that people are seething at F Gardner is making me want to read Call of the Crocodile now.

>>20865507
Stupid as in silly or absurd. I didn't mean to offend you or dismiss your point.

>>20865526
Same. I want to know what's all the rage.

>>20865297
The fact that they let him spam the board continuously implies that he himself must be a mod here

>>20865547
Although Gardner's writing is incredible shit, it's mostly his highly defective personality that we find so objectionable.
He's a sadcringe lolcow shill-spamming self-stroker.
And let me save you time with his "writing".
Call of the Crocodile's twist is that the family for the first half of the book never existed and were made up by a kid who browsed /x/ and tried to make a family of tulpas for himself. The twist is revealed in a chapter where the kid who you think got eaten by a crocodile is still alive and he's playing with a Ouija board in a treehouse. The treehouse is struck by lightning and the kid is hospitalized. Then there's some out of body chapters where the kid is in this DMT realm and tormented by elves and the tulpa family tries to kill him for creating them. The kid sees the reader of the book and then snaps out of the DMT trip. Then an evil cult named Ouroboros kidnaps the kid, Stephen King and JK Rowling and brings them to Dracula's Castle (which has been relocated to Chicago) because they want to burn it down with a bunch of people inside as a Satanic sacrifice for The Great Reset. The kid burns down the castle early causing the cult to flee and then the ghost of the kid's dad saves him along with Stephen King and JK Rowling and they all watch the castle burn down together.

>>20865613
Or that it’s not him.

>>20865613
Did they miss how he literally destroyed a chat server all by himself? See >>20864348
Do they really think it can't happen here?

How would you outline a quest thread?

>>20865633
Of course it’s not. But it’s no use explaining because of the memes. If it was actually Gardner it wouldn’t just be Call of the Crocodile that gets spammed. That specific book became a meme.

>>20865649
I can point you to the Great Schizo Freakout, where he made it very clear that it was really him, and not just someone doing memes.
You would also have to explain why there was absolutely no mention of him for the three days he was banned for his latest schizo freakout.
He can't seem to figure out that we're not as stupid as he is.
He's like a three-year-old, covering his eyes with his hand, declaring himself to be invisible.

>>20865657
See>>20865649
He has written 10 books since Call of the Crocodile and none of those other books are even talked about on here.

>>20865661
You evidently missed >>20860834 and >>20860928
I understand if you blanked them out.
I certainly tried to.

>>20865526
Fuck off Gardner.

>>20865675
>the one time another Gardner book has ever been mentioned means that you are Gardner.

You know damn well what I mean. That crocodile book has been spammed from here to the high heavens. Mentions of other Gardner books are virtually nonexistent. Why would Gardner spend all day spamming Call of the Crocodile if he’s written 12 other books since writing that one? Literally nobody would do this and it’s fucking retarded. Funny. But retarded.

>>20865699
Ok Gardner.

Besides Call, are the other books in /wg/'s collection any good?

>>20865699
It's only spammed by him.
During his recent 3-day ban, literally no one mentioned him.
He's more sadcringe than David Hogg and Cindy Sheehan put together.
And all he's doing is driving his laughable excuse of a reputation further into the mud.

>>20865699
The “Everyone is F Gardener” meme is now an even bigger forced meme than Call of the Crocodile.

>>20865714
Is this supposed to prove something? I’m sure there have been days where it’s NOT mentioned. If a day goes by without Winnie the Pooh being mentioned am I going to jump to the insane conclusion the writer is making all the posts? No. Lmao at your retarded detective skills.

>>20865713
You're not in /wg/'s collection Gardner. No amount of spamming or astroturfing or gaslighting or unhinged samefagging is going to change that.

I throw in Em dashes without an idea what they are and what they do.

Nobody has called me out using them. So I am either using them correctly, or the reader does not know how to use them either.

I also have no clue how to use parentheses.

>>20861156
The filler IS the content.

>>20865803
>Not understanding basic punctuation

Based and F. Gardnerpilled

>>20860313
i strongly dislike cartoons like that one. there's no element of visual humor in it, the illustration serves no purpose beyond, well, illustrating what is essentially verbal humor and could just as well be simply written down. it feels embarrassing that someone would be so taken with a mildly funny and clever play on words that they would take hours to draw an essentially ornamental picture padding it up.

>>20865905
Ok Gardner.

>>20865832
It's shit content.
>you know this pressing thing we have going on but let's just forget about it completely for a while and check out this SIDE PLOT that's barely connected to anything and is totally not here only to pad the page count

>>20865803
>I throw in Em dashes without an idea what they are and what they do.
/wg/ in a nutshell

I finally finished this molly death chapter! Took me much too long, but i was also wasting time playing video games too.

But I'm not too sure about the ending. It feels as if I should show how he killed her instead of just leaving it vague

This is a Kaiju-sized asswhooping. Thoughts?
>It’s hulking, sludge covered arm slammed across the other beast’s face. There was a slight delay, and then a sound that was akin to heavy rainfall briefly echoed throughout the area. Not just blood, but the countless bodies it had absorbed in its quest for peace. All were scattered ato the wind.
>It didn’t understand what this feeling was. Or more accurately, WHY this feeling was. It was hot and it stung. Pain? Why was it feeling pain from this simple hefty blow when the slashes and fists of its former comrades did no such thing? It bled from those as well, quite profusely in fact, but it did not feel pain. So what was the meaning of all this?
>It jumped backwards, landing hundreds of meters away with an earth-shattering thud as each one of it’s slimy limbs made contact with the cold stone. It stared down its opponent for a brief moment before it noticed that the stinging on its face was getting worse. It was getting deeper, harsher, and covering more of its face.
>It held its hand up and looked through a small eyeball that was attached to it, only to notice that the spot where it had been hit was… Corroding. Like paper in fire, it was slowly dripping off and dissolving. It screeched and slammed its head into the pavement, trying to scrape off the afflicted areas before it could get any worse.
>Eventually, the pain receded as it took more and more chunks out of it’s face, gore staining the area like a flood. It stood back up, it’s face beginning to regenerate, and let out an infuriated scream. This indignity would not last, and it would tear this thing apart and save this city, and eventually the world, from its own evil.
It’s a WIP

Book 3 begun.
Only 700 words done.
Tomorrow I will do bretter.

>>20866401
Not your blog fag.

>>20861512
Literary fiction is more character driven than anything. It's what makes it unique and less formulaic than genre fiction.
Genre Fiction is x driven, x depending on the genre.

>>20866415
who cares

>>20866450
I do, retard.

>>20866464
yeah well who cares about you caring

>>20866495
I do, retard.

>>20866499
oh

I just learned the difference between omniscience and limited omniscience and now I've realised that I frequently change between the two. One common example is where in some places I explain the feeling that the character does not understand, but in other places I limit the narrators knowledge and leave some emotion undefined. It's nice noticing things like this, hopefully going forward I can better stick to one point of view.

>>20866449
What would you say is the difference between the two? It's something I've not had clear in my head.
Genre fiction relies on tropes?

Someone do me a favor and post that image correcting dialogue tags and punctuation, I need to be reminded.

>>20864954
He read East of Eden so I suspect it is a reference to that. Cathy (Kate) was a huge bitch. The Chinaman story is inspired partly by Lee from the same book.

>>20866236
I do not doubt that. But it's not shit because it's filler. If it's shit then it's shit regardless.

Bucksneed says nothing, I stare for a moment, I look into his dull eyes, the moment lingers, my erection grows and grows, the head of my cock pushes at canvas crotch, pushes it outwards, “Fuck it,” I say, dropping my pants, I’m looking at Bucksneed, I want him to see this, the rush of blood runs through me, flushing me, thrushes don’t bleat at inexistent hedgerows, hylics dance on rugs pulled in bitter dreams, I’m looking at Bucksneed and I’m lowering myself to her, I’m sprawling her pronate, lilywhite ass and pinkhairy sex bare to draughts in from the sea, in through the open window, they bear the humid sea upon their journeys inland, wet saline weight, a system of immeasurable complexity, heavy as oatmeal chunks dribbling like vomitus down her cheek’s pixelating uncertainty, the backs of her thighs, upon which I’m seated, are warm, unshaven-stubbled and cushioning bone underneath, she’s mumbling secrets, she’s heaving unconscious, the sea’s the sea until it’s not, Bucksneed, I can’t get in, she’s dry, my hands grab and reach at doughy white flesh, thumbs digging in, they dig into sponge-muscled tensity at the small of her back, I still can’t get in, Bucksneed, O! Bucksneed, are you watching? do you see me? can you see what I’m doing? she’s not yours, she’s mine, “She’s not yours, she’s mine,” and his black ox eyes are hooded, his face froze in place, in the distance ring churchbells with partridges in flock-amplified song, resonant on wing from the fry, as I part the pink seas and reach grasping fingers inside, I spit on my hand, I rub at her vulva, then force in her cunt, four fingers deep up to the knuckles, she’s all the while moaning half-hearted, weak, she’s shaped clay beneath me, the vagina is a self-lubricating machine that from time to time requires a jump-start but nevertheless acquiesces, and I’m staring at Bucksneed as I enter her, imagine the look on my face, is it ecstasy? dumb rapture in rictus? how thin the skin, how sunken the cheeks, how stretched the skin taut tanned and shining like young leather gone nubile across my starkened cheekbones, the sensation is warm and encompassing cunt wrapped round aching hard cock and she’s bleeding, were you virginal, girl? did you lie to me? no, no, there’s that angry red tear leaking blood, painting me red as I plunge in and out, in and out, I hold at her arms for leverage, slap slap thud, squelching and the moans aren’t my own but at whose feet can they be lain but mine? I hook fingers into her mouth, grab the sleep of reason produces monsters, the cornered animal knows no restraint, and to err is human, but this error is catastrophe, and a catastrophe that must be recognized as I pull out and orgasm anhedonic, my semen curt, yellow, and in dehydrated globs atop her lilywhite buttocks shud’ring.

>>20861628
>I used Miblart
Surely you jest. All they advertise is shitty cartoons of the full cast to show how diverse your book is.

>>20866744
>pinkhairy sex bare
>oatmeal chunks dribbling like vomitus down her cheek’s
>Bucksneed, O! Bucksneed
> my semen curt
Bucksneed redeemed

>>20866675
"I feel like shit," he said.
"I feel like shit."
"Do you feel like shit?" she asked.
"Do you feel like shit?"
"I feel like shit!" he said.
"I feel like shit!"
He lifted his head from the pillow. "I feel like shit."

This is everything but dialogue interrupted by prose. I CBF to look that up rn.

>>20866998
Thanks bro.

The graphite fell out of my pencil and I don't know where it went. Time to use the wooden #2.

>>20866509

Dont worry about this so much unless you mean to use it purposefully to withhold info. Readers wont notice the shift between limited and total omni. The key is being consistent with the omniscience and purposeful with the limited.

I used this to create tension in Egregore. The first act of the book is full omni, bouncing in and out of the heads of the married main characters. When one character leaves, we lose that freedom of perspective, lending the tone a bit of claustrophobia as we are now "stuck" in the head of the crazy one without the grounding sobriety of the normal one.

I'd say that limited is more challenging because you have to structure your scenes with intention. Whereas with true omni you can just kinda float.

>>20866744
Formerly Buckchuck

New thread >>20867134

>>20867135
>seether thread
no thanks

>>20867135
What the fuck is this trolling? How can a writing general of all things invite such a thing?

>>20867163
Seething pseuds, simple as. Just report the thread and move on.

>>20867222
So who's going to make the next one?

>>20867135
lol pwnd

New, non-seething thread: >>20867329

>>20865979
Then draw a better one, seether.
It takes no talent or effort to whine.

>>20866744
This is probably the best thing you’ve posted but your flow is still a complete mess. Run on sentences, masturbatory word choice and incomprehensible figures of speech may seem stylistic at first glance, but it really hurts readability.

>>20867135
Hopefully he's been banned for another few days, and we won't have to listen to so-totally-not-him shill his crappy books-in-name-only.
This general is actually a decent place when he's not around.

>>20867366
>Run on sentences
Fren, it's all one, single run-on sentence.

>>20867163
Gardner is an angry, fat little man.