/lit/ - Literature

>>20857987
>two daughters
He's doing him a favour

>asking simple critical questions can bring down a civilization

Good fucking riddens then

Blood & Soil > Abrahamic Religion

>>20858011
>critical questions
Atheists are never critical thinkers, nor do they engage in honest discourse. Their line of questioning is always rooted in self-justification.

Ah yes the jews want you to stop worshipping the jewish son of the jewish god

>>20858015
The only time you faggots see blood is when you're getting tested for AIDS.

>>20858011
>anon's confusing agnosticism and atheism again

Wouldn't atheists be a part of God's plan?

>>20858021
(((Jews))) are not Israelites.

>>20857987
where did you get this picture of me? btw after i took out the parents those two girls lasted me for a month

>>20858027
Agnostics are cowards who hide behind ambiguity.

>>20858035
While that's true, it doesn't make atheism in itself good.

>>20858027
Agnosticism is just the stepping stone towards atheism. They'll eventually come to see that a belief in God is baloney.

If your faith in a deity is as flimsy as your faith in metaphysical blue Unicorns galloping accross Jupiter surface, then the atheist agnostic distinction is trivial

>>20858024
Christianity lasted less than 2 generations in the face of multiculturalism, it is marxism for the soul.

>>20858030
>these jews didn't like that jew so he's not a jew and they're not REAL jews and we wuz jews

>>20858019
You're thinking of theism

>>20857987

>17 replies
>not one stating "The Bible"
How brain dead are you losers?

>>20858056
>They'll eventually come to see that a belief in God is baloney.
>If your faith in a deity is as flimsy as your faith in metaphysical blue Unicorns galloping accross Jupiter surface,
Nice claims you got there.

>>20858169
Sorry we're not all meme-geniuses like you anon.

>>20858185
It should have been the first post. Don't get snippy with me, bitch.

>>20858177
Then give us some evidence for this god.

Also, tell us which one it is, because there's quite a bit to choose from

>>20858169
>the book that drove the majority of the West away from religion
GG

>>20858019
why is this action moral?
>because it says it in this book
Okay, why in the book makes it moral?
>God said it is moral
Okay, what do you have to support that that what God said is moral?
>this book

Do you know what self-justitication even means?

>>20858030
Burger King or McDonalds, its all the same goyslop.

>>20858146
Feser is the tradcath version of Richard Dawkins. Most of his works are just him trying to persuade philosophically illiterate normies into Thomism. I recently read his book on Aquinas and noticed how he conveniently doesn't mention the Thomist doctrine of predestination when discusing Aquinas' views on free will, precisely because he knows that any normal person would find said doctrine to be morally repugnant and instantly dismiss Thomism as a result.

That's the modus operandi of most Christian apologists: they lure people by using semi convincing arguments about the existence of a necessary cause, a first principle and so on and once they are in the cult they push into them all the absurd, unjustified doctrines of Christianity.

>>20858011
i never really thought about this before but i think civilizations are inheritently fragile, the confidence within the society, its structures and direction, is very fragile. and without the proper defenses, simple questions can ruin a civilization

>>20858193
>Then give us some evidence for this god.
I'm not going to debate religion with you anon, you know how long that's going to take and it isn't even on topic in this thread.

>>20858169
The bible helped me deconvert and become atheist.

>>20857987
>ME NO LIKE JOO
>ME NO LIKE JOO
>THEY ARE VERY INFERIOR TOO

>>20858255
Not the most graceful evasion

>>20858247
And don't you think that anything that can be put to the test, should be?

Why would you want a weak civilization? I want the strongest one possible, so being hyper skeptical of its assumptions will only benefit it.

Just look at the islamic world. That's a civilization where questioning its core principles is banned under penalty of death, and it's a total shithole

>>20858255
he didnt ask to have a debate, he wanted evidence and you failed to provide.

>>20858177
And?

>>20858195
>>20858272
Ask me how I know you're degenerate liberals who are slaves to your vices

>>20858320
This is such a weak response. Someone disagrees with you and your only response is to get upset and call them a libtard or whatever

>>20858320
What an embarrasingly obvious projection

>>20858291
And its one of the ones that is growimg the fastest and most likely to keep its roots and be a coherent culture.Cant be doing something all that bad

>>20858344
You're right, takfir definitely isn't real, and is also very good for the stability of your society

>>20858338
>>20858339
If exposure to scripture causes you to lose your faith it's because you were either never properly taught it in the first place or you're too indoctrinated by modern liberal(and this goes back to the classical liberals of the 1700s) paradigm and disagree with it on ideological grounds. I've seen it too many times.

>>20858280
>>20858294
It's not an evasion you retards, I didn't enter the thread to debate the truth of and uses for religion. I merely pointed out that claiming that an agnostic will necessarily 'come to see that belief in God is baloney' is ridiculously overconfident and objectively wrong, never mind whether religion is baloney or not. But I must say it is a hubristic statement in that sphere too. Furthermore you made the claim first, if you want to argue provide proof for that don't just casually expect me to do it when -- if we were arguing on such a topic -- I would have no duty to. The second statement that I greentexted was ridiculous because it wasn't a description of anyone in the thread yet you strawmanned them as such. Yes technically you said 'if', but no one fitted into it so it practically functions as talking about everyone.

>durr durr look at me i'm smart because someone doesn't want to waste an hour debating with me durr durr

This is why people hate atheists, because they're almost without exception some of the dumbest people in internet conversations. Learn to read.

>>20858365
>if you don't agree with my worldview, you obviously didn't believe in it hard enough and didn't study it for at least 65.900 months. Only then are you allowed to critique it

The classic Jordan Peterson cope

I'm atheist but also hate jews niggers and trannies

>>20858367
You're in a thread about atheism you fucking moron. What did you expect people were going to do, smell your farts?

>>20858367
I was going to convert to Christianity, but if this is what it does to you, I don't think I should. I don't want to be so filled with hate and resentment.

>>20858223
Its also worth noticing that the jump from an Aristotlean God justified via first principle to the specific traditions and religions and traditions is never justified.

They have such a hard time proving the existence of a god that they do not even bother with proving the existence of their specific God.

>>20858377
That's not what I was saying at all. I'm saying you were handed an worldview that is directly at odds with Christianity, so when you finally dug into it you rejected it on the grounds that it went against what you already held to be true.

>>20858291
well, i dont know if it a question of putting a civilization to a test because there is nothing to really test it against. its more of a question of direction and focuses and a civilizations ability to commit to them. its not so much of a moral question as a question of preference. its like the question of what career a person can choose for themself. the question is really a preference, to a point, but what becomes important is the ability of a person to commit to the choice. and a simple question of alternative can cause a person to doubt their initial direction and cause a lot of wasted time and energy, and possible a complete lack of achievement. kinda like paralysis from analysis. eventual a decision has to be made and committed too, or nothing happens but slow decay.

and as to the statement of a weak and strong civilization, the point i am making is that all civilizations are both, depending on the participants commitment to the larger direction and focus of the civilization. and all civilizations are just as vulnerable to simple self-doubt.

and attempting to use islamic culture as an example of a civilization doesnt really work because i dont think it qualifies as a civilization. it may once qualified several centuries ago, no not now. it can be considered a religious culture, maybe a society, but not a civilization. I admit that I dont have a quantitative measure for what is a civilization compared to a society or culture. I dont think anyone does. maybe a culture is civilization that forgot the commandments and follows only the conventions. Lost the principles and direction, and instead spins in circles with habits.

>>20858389
not him but
Why shouldn't the vile and unrighteous be hated? Why shouldn't you despise those who do evil? The wicked should be shunned and ridiculed.

>>20858393
I wasn't 'handed' anything, at some point in time is simply asked myself for evidence for this god fellow you keep talking about, and to this day I'm still waiting for it

>>20858401
I consider monotheism vile and wicked.

>>20858402
So you need the spiritual to provide you material? Explain to me how that's supposed to work? They're two separate things. It transcends what you're looking for. It's missing the trees for the forest.

>>20858291
>so being hyper skeptical of its assumptions will only benefit it.
Not only. Normally I'm all for criticism but you retards don't know how to criticize. Reasoned criticism works within presupposed contexts. You need to appeal to common assumptions to say anything.
Your kind of "hyper skepticism" is purely destructive, it's just a void that eats thoughts and makes sure they go nowhere. You abandoned all reason long ago and pretend attacking even the idea of wanting life to exist makes you "stronger".
>Islam
You do not have "stronger" cultural pillars to build societies than Islam. Everywhere you go pathetic weakness follows. Islam seems pretty retarded but at least it's "strong" compared to you.

>>20858406
Why? Genuine question.

>>20858401
You do evil every day when you praise nazi ideals like being against lgbt, women and minorities on here, some good Christians you people are

>>20858401
I just don't want to spend day after day seething with resentment. If Christianity inspires you to greater hatred and resentment, I'd rather not join in. Society already has enough people who "despise those who do evil" (i.e., people they disagree with).

>>20858423
1. That's quite the assumption, fren.
2. The Bibles is explicitly clear about how and where fags and women fit in society. It's not my fault your modern ideology views that as evil. Stop trying to take what isn't yours and mold it to fit your agenda. 2000 years of practice isn't suddenly wrong because you adopted a political ideology at odds with it.

>>20858426
So you're just a cowardly radical centrist. Why didn't you just say that?

>>20858387
Now that's an evasion.

>>20858389
Fake Christian says something bad about Christianity trope. Yes anon we've heard it all before.

>>20858420
Momotheism is the very first instance of failed utopism. Before monotheism you had polytgeism, a flawed but nevertheless rich expression of religious belief that left plenty of space for a unique collection of stories, rituals, ways to experience your beliefs, etc. With monotheism, all of this changed into a ridiculous impulse towards centralizing everything and destroying everything that didn't fit the 'perfect' doctrine. This was all done in the name of a 'paradise' that was little more than a ridiculous fantasy for people who just couldn't accept that life will always have a certain level of suffering, and that moral progress happens very slowly, and not overnight.

Monotheism is the very first revolutionary doctrine. It's no accident that communism and nazism share much of the same characteristics of monotheism. Those too are ridiculous utopian doctrines, with hopelessly unrealistic expectations of paradise, preached by petty, childish and short sighted morons who just want to wipe out everything, and can't accept any kind of complexity

>>20858452
Not at all. I believe it's possible to hold strong principles and to stand up for them without poisoning yourself with rage and resentment.

>>20858465
Anyone unwilling to hate that which is evil and deal with it accordingly is a coward. Even the ancient Greeks knew this.

Are all Christians so angry most of the time? I am in a mostly non-Christian country so please forgive my ignorant questions.

>>20858465
I love you. I even love the demon that possesses you but you're a fucking retard.

>>20858470
You can spend your life full of hate if you love it so much, I guess.

>>20858459
>couldn't accept that life will always have a certain level of suffering
This is how I know you don't know what you're talking about. The Christian worldview is that we're living in a fallen state. We've already been caste out of paradise, and as such are left in a world of suffering and struggle. It's about trying to rise above all of that and still be good people despite that to prove we belong in Heaven.

>>20858459
>nazism
>utopian
Nigga, wat?
Hitler literally referred to life as a "world of eternal struggle"

>>20858483
>believes in demonic possession
Do you believe that the sun is drawn by a chariot as well?

>>20858493
Hitler wanted to make a retard white people utopia or something. "We need to get rid of the jews and then everything will be okay, blah blah." The "eternal struggle" thing is a catchy slogan created to appeal to simpletons like yourself.

>>20858474
No, actual Christians are nice friendly old people who run soup kitchens and homeless shelters and generally go out of their way to help the poor and helpless. It's just the terminally online contrarian larpers on here who use Christianity as a substitute for personality and for the new way of being reactionary now that neo nazism, alt right, trumpism etc have all failed that are like this

>>20858511
Oh good okay. I heard Christians were charitable and forgiving but I came on here to only see them screeching and swearing at people. I was depressed at first but if you say they are not real Christians I guess I must believe you

>>20858510
No, getting rid of the jews was about getting rid of a (at least perceived) subversive element within their society. Everything the nazis did was with an understanding that there will always be problems to overcome. It was about minimizing them and providing future generations with the best means and chance of addressing those issues.

>>20858504
Great example of "le criticism" leading to simply becoming an uneducated retard instead of anything productive. Why don't you know anything about demons and spirits? For all history every person on the planet talked about basically nothing else but you have no clue what they were referencing and are actually proud of your ignorance.
You have no defenses because you don't even understand what you should be defending yourself against. You're now a completely mindless puppet of abstract forces. You actively undermine human authority in everything because humans are corrupt but your precious demonic systems are holy.

>>20858511
Try saying the braindead shit you say online to the granny in the soup kitchen. She's probably the biggest chud here.

>>20858504
>not believing in demons
Even my agnostic ass is laughing at you rn

>>20858525
>She's probably the biggest chud here.
This. No one will beat you down like an old lady. Those bitches can destroy a man with in a single sentence.

>>20858517
Well in my opinion they're not because they care more about image and identity than actually following Christian ideals irl, there's been a huge rise in it for about the last year and it's because Trump was voted out so they need to find something new to cling to. I guess some American conservatives are like that in person too but they're ignorant backwards shitty people to begin with, Christian or not

>>20858489
Your religion literally promises eternal life and bliss, if you just like subscribe and hit the Jesus thumbs up

>>20857987
I live in Russia and le based trad ROC does fuck all to save the traditional family institutions.
Meanwhile pagans and atheists (talking about non-muscovites) are forming actual family cells.

>>20858560
If that's your understanding of how things work, you are painfully ignorant and need to go look deeper. A 4chan thread can never show you how wrong you are here.

>>20858561
Aren't you guys supposed to be Orthodox?

>>20858580
So Christianity does not promise eternal life for just accepting Jesus as your lord?

What kind of Christianity are you talking about?

>>20858586
No, Russians have a manifest destiny to worship almighty Perun

>>20858011
>riddens

>>20858561
what the fuck are you shitting out your mouth. Non religious russian whores abort babies like its nothing.

>>20858519
You seem to be confusing familiarity with belief. I'm FAMILIAR with demonic possession, as I spent years living in rural West African communities where belief in demonic possession and other kind of supernatural spirits is common. However, I don't believe demonic possession is a real thing because there's no proof it's real.

>>20858596
Can't believe it took 80 posts for anyone to notice

What a shit board

>>20858587
To truly accept Jesus means to live a virtuous life. It's not just "oh yeah, I guess that guy is cool" You have to live that life.

>>20858586
Mostly in name only, few people give a fuck about traditions.

>>20858600
They don't ask for religious affiliation before abortion and opinion polls aren't meaningful in any way.
You don't even have to care about abortions, just see what regions have the highest birth rates.

>>20858320
I'm literally the best only man ITT with a wife and child.

>>20858610
Through semantic tricks you reduce history to what you think you know about some african you probably never tried to understand anyway.
You don't think, you're a puppet of external abstract forces, fighting to keep those forces in power over as many humans as possible. Your semantic posts are examples of black magic demonic ritual to hide the existence of demons and disconnect you from your past. It will never occur to you to actually think about what I'm saying, the programming will make sure it's all automatically rejected.

>>20857987
The Bible is enough reason to be an atheist.

>>20858665
Not him but you sound like you just want to feel superior to him as you don't even believe yourself in what you're saying right now.

>>20858665
>tl;dr

>>20858629
That wasn't my point. Are you given eternal life as a result of this?

>>20858671
>>20858672
>you don't even believe yourself in what you're saying right now
Exactly what I said you would do. All you retards are completely incapable of even trying to actually think. You just see specific words and the conditioning kicks in, no hint of thought involved.

>>20858511
Cringe

You can't find more dogmatic religious zealots anywhere on the planet or in history than atheists. This is a demonstrable fact, the only people that can't accept the demonstrations of this fact are mindless atheists.

>>20858690
That sounds exactly like something a mindless zealot would say

>>20858391
I don't think this is actually a problem. If Aquinas is able to successfully argue that God exists and is good, and all-powerful, etc. that is already the Christian God, whether you believe in the trinity or other doctrines.

>>20858019
Marx was a strong critical thinker than you though?

>>20858665
>Through semantic tricks you reduce history to what you think you know about some african you probably never tried to understand anyway.
You don't know anything about what I've observed or my views on it, and you're not interested. Instead, you leap to the conclusion that, whatever experience or thoughts I might have, it's all illegitimate and invoked just for "semantic tricks." Why even have a discussion with someone if you're going to act like this?

>>20858707
i should say: "it's already consistent with the Christian God".

>>20858688
If you were true Christian you would go wash an old homeless man's feet right now. But no instead you'll just continue swearing and ragging on atheists, lgbt people, minorities etc on this website

>>20858707
Marx refuted Aquinas.

>>20858721
I doubt it

FUCK ATHE$IETS !FUFUUFUFUFUCKKCKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>20858724
You can't really doubt anything as a Christian. You're brainwashed lackey for the bourgeois. Always have been. That's why Stalin just shot people like you.

>>20858389
mind your own soul. Saying 'But i saw a mean Christian!' wont save you in the day of judgement.

>>20858706
>sounds like
But you do in fact demonstrably mindlessly defer to your conditioned dogma as if it's holy in every post. You don't even know how to use reason so you say things like "sounds like", as if that's not just confirming you work based on mindless conditioning.

>>20858745
>mind your own soul
I am. I don't think that filling your heart with malice and resentment is a good thing.

>>20858748
I didn't know someone could write a whole sentence without barely moving his lips. that was a pretty cool trick brother.

>>20858011
>riddens
go to retard jail

>>20858011
China and Best Korea are looking fine though?

>>20858676
But it's not an attempt to create utopia, certainly not utopia on Earth, which is what you were claiming.

>>20858707
>If I am able to successfully argue that there are indeed caves in Arabia and 7th century merchants could go in there, then that is already proof for the Islamic God, whether you believe in pilgrimage to Mecca and other doctrines.

>>20858721
How?

>>20858391
Aquinas is quite clear that the Christian God's specific character - being triune - cannot be demonstrated, on the following grounds:
Proofs for the existence of God proceed from the created world, and so rely upon the effects of God as Creator. But the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit alike create, so an argument from the natural world (e.g. the argument based on essence and existence he develops in De Ente et Essentia) could not discern the Trinity.

His rational theology is in Part I, Q2-26, and is extremely developed, far above Aristotle's Unmoved Mover of Metaphysics Lambda. It's supremely compatible with traditional Christianity, but it doesn't prove Jesus was God, or that God is three Persons.

>>20858279
Welcome back, hun

>>20858402
>I wasn't handed anything
This may be the problem :(

>>20858833
>but it doesn't prove Jesus was God, or that God is three Persons.
Then why should I believe in it? Why believe in these gratuituos, unnecesary and absurd doctrines?

>>20858459
>that was little more than a ridiculous fantasy for people who just couldn't accept that life will always have a certain level of suffering
2 Timothy 3:12
To be Christian, you must accept suffering.

>>20858560
Literally protestantism.

>>20858810
This is not a good analogy. it's like saying hey there's this great guy called Paul and he's super reliable. And you also know Paul and say, actually he's super nice too and his last name is Smith! Do you not see how the one doesn't contradict the other? Whereas in your example, the one statement has nothing to do with the other statement.

>>20858867
Aquinas could be wrong about the trinity. Maybe some day people will be able to prove the logical necessity of the trinity. I'm not so sure there haven't already been attempts to do so - but idk to what extent they work.

>>20858988
>the logical necessity of the trinity
>an old man, a hippy and a pigeon link up transformers style to form the most powerful being in the galaxy
...

>>20859009
One realm of pure potential, one physical and one in the mind. The Trinity is a representations of God in each realm.

>>20857987
meds

>>20858019
>self-justification.
...for what?

>>20858030
>JUST HOW MUCH DO THE JEWS HATE JESUS CHRIST
seething this much at an illiterate signature, lmao
Death to U$rael btw

>>20859009
I literally don't know. Hegel seemed to have thought the trinity was logical. Maybe Pierce did too - or maybe he just believed in the trinity because he was obssessed with the number 3. I'm sure there have been some attempts to do this in the history of theology. I just don't think we should dismiss it as impossible like Aquinas did.

>>20858169
I read the Bible as an atheist

>>20858019
>people who disagree with me are ALL dishonest and bad

That's convenient.

>>20858988
Yeah and maybe in the far future we come up with a new system of physics that proves that my favourite TV show doesn't have any plotholes, but the truth is that right now the Trinity is utterly BTFO'd by the transitive law of logic:
>If A=B and B=C, then C=A
>Therefore, if the Father(A)=God(B), and God(B)=the Son(C), then the Son(C)=the Father(A)

>>20858665
How do you know that guy is "possessed" ?

>>20859117
That would make it three, which isn't one

>>20859197
Possessed to christtards = people disagree with me

>>20857987
A better question would be: why is this retard allowed to spam the board with inane bait threads? Why do the jannies do absolutely nothing to stop or prevent this? Are they complicit? And, if the above is true, why haven't we found their addresses and hanged them yet?

>>20859327
Hanged them in minecraft, I ought to specify.

>>20859290
Three realms, one reality. You aren't an honest person, you don't care about finding things out, just spreading the propaganda that brainwashed you.

>>20858030
>Israelites are da real white people
You know who else was white people? White people.

>>20858470
Are you calling Jesus a coward?

>>20859197
To my experience (the anon who spent some time in rural West Africa) it's women pretty much 100% of the time. I never saw a man suffer from so-called demonic possession. Usually they start thrashing around on the ground and screaming; it's pretty hard to miss. Women also suffered fainting spells a lot, something that also didn't occur with men that I ever saw.

>>20858024
at least we don't transmit it to choir boys

Just read Wittgenstein.

>>20857987
Malta, Ireland and Poland are all very religious with very high church attendance and have like 1.2 birthrates
Cope

>>20857987
The one that _ACTUALLY_ refutes atheism as a reasonable worldview. This is by far the most compelling book on near-death experiences (NDEs) according to the actual experts in the field:

https://www.amazon.com/Why-Afterlife-Obviously-Exists-Realer-Than-Real/dp/1785359851/

It makes a huge deal about the fact that near-death experiencers (NDErs) are representative of the population as a whole, and that when people go deep into the NDE, they all become convinced. As this article points out:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mysteries-consciousness/202204/does-afterlife-obviously-exist

>"Statistics collected ... show that the "deeper" the NDE ... the greater the percentage of those who come away certain of the existence of the afterlife. Among those with the deepest experiences ... 100 percent came away agreeing with the statement, "An afterlife definitely exists"."

Since NDErs are representative of the population as a whole, and they are all convinced, then 100% of the population become convinced that there is an afterlife when they have a sufficiently deep NDE themselves. And so would you, me, or anyone, including the most dogmatic atheists and skeptics, because it is VASTLY more self-evidently real than this puny little experience of life on Earth we have now. When you dream and wake up, you immediately realize that life is more real than your dream. When you have an NDE, the same thing is happening, but on a higher level, as you immediately realize that life is the deep, deep dream and the NDE world is the real world.

>>20859711
"Some people who nearly died thought they experienced an afterlife" isn't proof of anything. Anyway, atheism is a lack of belief in a god; you can believe in an afterlife while not believing in a god. This only seems convincing to you because it reinforces what you already believe.

>>20859992
They should really be called "Severe Injury Experiences."

>>20858711
not really, no

>>20859197
I already expanded on what I'm talking about in the posts. You just can't read because you're possessed. Your conditioning stops you from thinking and actually absorbing things.
As a kid I noticed emergent systems are everywhere, anywhere many agents follow simple rules systems emerge on top of those rules. I wondered why nobody ever conceptualized this long ago since it's obvious and has huge ramifications for everything we do. Searching through history the people closest to talking about these phenomena all framed them as demons, when I found this I still considered myself an atheist. I was still possessed by a powerful demon.
Then the question becomes why is one of the most relevant and important ideas in history considered a joke? Because you're completely controlled and it's not good for the forces that control you if you understand them. The systems you maintain through worship/demonic rituals trend toward making you ignorant of the things that don't suit those systems.

>>20858011
>riddens

>>20858423
>b-but muh pozzed politics hurr hurr
No need to LARP like you actually give a single shit about the fags and minorities now.

>>20858426
>Despite people who do evil
>Thinks about whoever disagrees with you
This is Libtard understanding, anon. Have you actually studied it with a practicing Christian?

>>20857987
To actually answer your question unlike the other Pseuds in the thread, look no further than Pic rel.
Other good books are the "Twilight of Atheism" by Alister Mcgrath and books written by Nu-atheists themselves. They're wonderful freudian slips that reveal just how much they hate religion like the fanatics that they are.

>>20858969
But that's exactly the issue with your argument. If Aquinas is able to prove that there is a God who is loving and good then there this has absolutely nothing to do with the christian God or the christian doctrine that comes with it.

Even the most basic doctrines like "Jesus Christ is the messenger of said God" that christians of every denomination agree to cannot be justified.

>>20858833
So even he agrees that we should throw it in the trashbin. Not that I was ever convinced by Aristotle's arguments to begin with, which could at best lead one to deism.

>>20860047
meds

>>20860352
>To actually answer your question unlike the other Pseuds in the thread, look no further than Pic rel.
kek
they already admitted making shit up
People of that caliber already attributed every single "covid death" to "communism"

>>20860352
>Freudian slips
What a slip yourself that you don't realize that concept refutes religious metaphysics, in fact was created to do just that.

>>20858879
Yes, but you still insist on a utopian goal in relation to this suffering. That's quite literally what Heaven is, and Heaven has just been reinvented several times by other utopists, such as the dictatorship of the working class and the white ethnostate.

All of them are the same phenomenon, namely naive utopian projects that will never happen. Do you think a Marxist revolutionairy doesn't accept suffering?

>>20858860
Not really, since I'm doing perfectly fine without your moronic worldview

>>20858792
>concentrating all your efforts to bring about a final battle which is supposed to result in a rule by your specific god over a paradise of eternal life and eternal bliss, with 'a new Jerusalem' coming down from the heavens is not utopian

I'm really interested in what this is supposed to be, then

>>20861109
Say something illiterate golem.

>>20861149
Have you ever read anything even slightly related to the subject? Where do you get this stuff from?

>>20861263
My friend, this is all from the Bible. Are you telling me that books such as Daniel and Revelations were just pranks or something?

>>20858030
>Jews can't kill Jews
also
>Muslims can't kill Muslims
>niggers can't pop niggers
the absolute state of christfag apologetics

>>20861295
Who in history read it like you? How do you know better than all the scholars and saints?

>>20861305
How is it that every single atheist that tries to put together a thought says something as retarded as this? Is atheism really caused by brain damage like that study suggests?

>>20861306
What do those know that I don't? What are they, some kind of mini gods?

Now I understand why catholics are considered polytheists in denial

>>20861246
>Say something, illiterate golem.
>Say something illiterate, golem.
kek
Attend literacy programs

>>20861313
>Is atheism really caused by brain damage like that study suggests?
What study?

>>20862295
Say something illiterate golem.

>>20861971
>What do those know that I don't?
The level of brain damage needed to ask this.
Are you seriously asking me how to read? You think the words themselves have some inherent meaning somehow injected into them? How do you think reading works where this question is something that occurs to you?
>>20862298
https://academic.oup.com/scan/article/11/3/387/2375059

No atheist has ever read and understood the Enneads and remained an atheist

>>20862508
>https://academic.oup.com/scan/article/11/3/387/2375059
>The results provide the first evidence that group prejudice and religious belief are susceptible to targeted neuromodulation, and point to a shared cognitive mechanism underlying concrete and abstract decision processes
<---->
>Is atheism really caused by brain damage like that study suggests?

???

>>20862820
More evidence that atheists are illiterate.
If you disrupt the operation of a specific part of the brain people think more like atheists and show less in-group preference, like atheists.
Atheists also have more health problems in general implying they're more likely to suffer from such disruptions.

>>20862843
>More evidence that atheists are illiterate.
???
>If you disrupt the operation of a specific part of the brain
Who said anything about "disrupting"? It's "targeted neuromodulation".
At best, this study shows that the glorious "faith" in the "divine" is just a biochemical reaction in your synapses, nothing miraculous, nothing to be proud about.
>More evidence that atheists are illiterate.
Ipse dixit
>Atheists also have more health problems in general
Yeah, you could have posted that one instead. Why didn't you?

Le epic fucking retardo, lmao
>s-science said that!

>>20858070
Wrong again. Larping atomwaffen fuck, it's still going strong today in Russia, Hungary, and Romania

>>20863380
>Hungary, and Romania
>it goes stronk in irrelevant shitholes

>>20863380
Nothing in those countries is strong, you stupid fuck.

>>20863346
>Who said anything about "disrupting"?
Ignoring the meaning of text is functional illiteracy.
>this study shows that the glorious "faith" in the "divine"
It doesn't address your absolutely braindead ideas about "faith" at all. You're illiterate and retarded. So completely dishonest to the core that anything presented to you is interpreted to point to the same conclusions you already reached.
>you could have posted that one
It's not just one. How braindead do you have to be to demand I spoonfed you le proof about every minor detail? It doesn't occur to you to back up anything you say but I have to "prove" everything mentioned.
I pointed out facts to you. You can ignore them or look into them like a sincere, literate person that isn't completely motivated by brain damage.

You are demonstrating the fact that all atheists are braindead. You can't both be an atheist and think, the two are completely incompatible.

>>20863632
>You are demonstrating the fact that all atheists are braindead. You can't both be an atheist and think, the two are completely incompatible.

>>20863632
>It doesn't occur to you to back up anything you say
I didn't say anything :) That's the point

>>20863650
I know because I fell for it and was braindead for years because of it as a child. Atheists are functionally illiterate when it comes to most texts, if the text is older than 50 years old there's almost no chance you'll understand anything. There's no thought behind anything you say, it's all based on undermining thought, reason, history and everything good.
"Atheism" is not some default position, it's a religious cult you've been brainwashed into following. No religious cult in history had as dogmatic followers as atheists, because none of you think. You don't know how.
>>20863663
>I didn't say anything :)
You try to but can't. You're too dumb.
>this study shows that the glorious "faith" in the "divine"
Here's an example of you trying. When pushed on your horseshit you completely retreat because you know you're braindead. That's not something to be proud of, it's a reminder that you can't think.

>>20863691
You are a brown immigrant to a poor Eastern European nation.
Who thinks if he adopts, but forever remains too primitive to understand, the visible displays of culture you see around you, you will be equal in the eyes of the native people.

You will never be.

>>20863806
You took a shot and failed miserably. At least you tried to say something but again you just demonstrate that atheists can't think. You can't predict anything because you don't understand anything. You're showing your nature as a delusional cultist demanding he has all the answers but always having excuses when his predictions and applications reliably end in disaster.

>>20857987
MUH JOOZ

>>20863830
I am Christian, you dumb fuck.

>>20858202
Your representation of a christian argument is nothing short of an strawman, and completely separated from historical christian doctrine. It gives further support to my theory that atheism is both unwilling and unable to engage with actual theology, prefering to focus on honest, yet ignorant southern pastors with a very bad grasp on both the Bible and christian tradition.

>>20863846
You're retarded either way. Most likely you're some version of a brainwashed American, basically the same religion as atheists which translates to similar results.

>>20863691
>, it's a religious cult you've been brainwashed into following
Brainwashed by who?

>>20858517
Youre kidding, right? Not going to deny some christians can be problematic bu5 the vast majority of bait posts and insults are cominy from atheists.

Tell me how often you hear "jew on a stick" and "christcuck" to "Athecuck." Thr latter is nigh non existent.

Cant tell if youre ignorant or just purposefully being dishonest and want to play victim.

>>20861140
But are you really?

>>20861132
We embrace an other worldly utopia, not a worldly utopia. These are not the same. Christianity does not teach that any utopia is achievable in this life time. Christianity is the only religion that actually concedes that. The irony of your position is that both Nazism and Communism were highly materialistic.

>>20858011
Unironically

Swinburne, The Existence of God
Craig & Moreland (eds.), The Blackwell Companion to Natural Theology
Plantinga, God and Other Minds
Alston, Perceiving God: The Epistemology of Religious Experience

>>20864206
>Tell me how often you hear "jew on a stick" and "christcuck" to "Athecuck."
I never hear any of these terms.

>>20864206
>"Athecuck." Thr latter is nigh non existent.
I wonder why...
>>20858517
>I heard Christians were charitable and forgiving but I came on here to only see them screeching and swearing at people
I know one Christian woman who looks kinda intimidating at first, red dyed hair, fierce look in her eyes, but she's actually devout without being a bigot, and also spends her free time helping homeless and sick people. Really, a woman who has a lot of love to give out.

>>20858600
>>20858632
When I was still underage, my Slavic crush asked me to go the hospital with her to get the anti-baby pill
it wasn't me who nutted in her
G*D what a tool I am

>>20857987
The complete works of Plato: the Timaeus dialogue

>>20864326
analytical philosophy... yuck

>>20864490
What exactly is your problem with analytic philosophy?

>>20864121
>Brainwashed by who?
Is the idea that you're brainwashed really this alien to you? Or are you just pretending to be retarded to avoid facing reality?
Economic forces control all your media, their interests are promoted and anything that doesn't serve them is undermined. You're brainwashed into becoming mindless workers and consumers with universal secular beliefs that don't interfere with trade.
No person is organizing the process, the abstract forces themselves follow incentives that help them maintain and expand their power. Any person at a company can be fired, owners bought out but the abstract entity remains and it has its own goals that do not need to align with the goals of any human including anyone at the company.

>>20864694
>Is the idea that you're brainwashed really this alien to you?
No, not really
>Or are you just pretending to be retarded to avoid facing reality?
>Economic forces control all your media, their interests are promoted and anything that doesn't serve them is undermined. You're brainwashed into becoming mindless workers and consumers with universal secular beliefs that don't interfere with trade.
Kinda true, but atheism is not secularism, and I'm not a mindless consumer that doesn't interfere with trade, either.
About media, I don't watch TV, I don't listen to radio. In fact, both TV and radio stream whatever the Pope says. In public school, I had (almost) mandatory Catholic class. My taxes are used to pay priests' salaries, to build new churches (!), to renovate old ones.
So, let me ask you again, which media exactly "brainwashed" me into becoming atheist? I didn't even have the internet back then, I just a had the Holy Mary icon next to my bed - I used to pray every night.
>Or are you just pretending to be retarded to avoid facing reality?
You are just pretending your narrow worldview applies everywhere, everytime, to everyone. Relax.

>>20864770
>but atheism is not secularism
Secularism is reasonable while atheism is not.
>I'm not a mindless consumer
Clearly you are if you mindlessly consumed atheism.
>let me ask you again
Why would you feel the need to? Do your braindead anecdotes change anything I said? Are you going to ignore the fact that you're a brainwashed retard based on these anecdotes about how you've never known anything but corrupt environments focused on brainwashing you?
>applies everywhere, everytime, to everyone
Are you really so retarded that you think you're not proving me right?

>>20864930
>Clearly you are if you mindlessly consumed atheism.
But you mindlessly consumed the idea that he mindlessly consumed atheism... So who's the real mindless consumer here?

>>20864930
>not a single argument
Not what I was hoping for, but, eh :)
I'll maybe drink a beer to that

>>20864694
Just show us some proof that a god exists. If you can't do that you can't really claim that people only disagree with you because they're brainwashed.

>>20862508
Oh look, another Christcuck is retarded and doesn't know how to draw conclusions from what he reads.
I'm shocked.

>>20861126
>Nooooooooooooo you can’t use Atheist ideas to deboonk atheism!
Cope.

>>20857997
>t. nokids

>>20865073
Just show evidence that a god exists. That's the only way to deboonk atheism

>>20864962
>But you mindlessly consumed the idea
Your brain can't even come up with half-decent insult, you actually went for "no u" even when it makes absolutely no sense.
The abstract forces that want me to consume sold me the idea that they're brainwashing people like you? They're undermining history and local identities so you identify as a rootless worker unit. You celebrate when they rob you of the little power you had in the name of rooting out "corruption", when they take power from humans and give it to demons. The nation state is no more because retards like you were brainwashed into destroying it.
>>20864968
To "argue" at all you would have to acknowledge what I'm talking about on some level, I'm not going to "argue" about a point you haven't even begun to grasp. You can't reasonably disagree with something you don't understand.
Instead of trying to understand you went straight for the predictable braindead anecdotes, like what I would expect from someone conditioned by stories and anecdotes instead of actually applying reason.

>>20865310
>The abstract forces that want me to consume sold me the idea that they're brainwashing people like you? They're undermining history and local identities so you identify as a rootless worker unit. You celebrate when they rob you of the little power you had in the name of rooting out "corruption", when they take power from humans and give it to demons. The nation state is no more because retards like you were brainwashed into destroying it.
Yeah, capitalism is bad. I agree. None of this proves that a god exists, though. Make with the proof or go away.

>>20865085
There's more evidence for God than most things. You heard all the arguments but apparently don't understand any of them. Why are all atheists so proud of their ignorance? It's like the entire religion of atheism is about the worship of ignorance.

>>20865322
>the religion of atheism
Oh boy

>>20865322
You're making it way too obvious.

>>20865320
>capitalism is bad
See the root issue here is you're completely braindead. I'm talking about abstract forces that you need to account for in anything you do and your useless mind just recalls the conditioning, "yes label x bad".
The focus on "capitalism" is another way to undermine your power, to brainwash you into being a predictable puppet of abstract forces, not specifically companies. They're the most obvious example.
>None of this proves that a god exists
We weren't talking about that. We have to establish that we're referencing the same things and we'll stop at the word "proof" because you have no clue what that means or pretty much what any words mean. You're illiterate, that's how you can bring yourself to identify as an "atheist" in the first place.
>>20865330
>ackshually sweaty my religious dogma says my religion is not a religion so yeah
>>20865340
You can't conceive of a world outside your conditioning, this is one of your defense mechanisms to make sure you never think, never challenge your religious dogma.
None of you will say anything, you'll repeat these same brainwashing lines everyone on the planet has heard their entire lives. No meaning, no thinking, just reinforcement of established paths, established religious doma.

>>20857987
This one. Really good deconstruction of the atheist worldview and why it's self defeating.

>>20865357
To review: You get upset and insult people when they disagree with your beliefs. You can't explain or defend your beliefs and instead resort to autistic tantrums when challenged.

>>20865361
There's no such thing as "the atheist worldview." Atheists aren't a group; it's just a catch-all term for people who don't believe in a god. I assume this book aims to deconstruct secular materialists or the "New Atheists."

>>20865320
>None of this proves that a god exists, though. Make with the proof or go away.
Why aren't you a solipsist? There's no good evidence for a world outside your head that isn't the same kind of argument you reject for God. It's irrational to reject God based on "lack of proof" but also asset that there is an objective reality outside your mind without the same kind of proof you need to accept Gods existence

The problem with atheism is that I can take any purely negative position and stick my tongue out at you all day and say "You need to prove me wrong" like atheists do but that doesn't make it a rational position and atheists can't seem to grapple with that. What makes a solipsist irrational if you can't provide any proof for an objective reality outside their head? If you find the answer to that you're well on your way to understanding why atheism is wrong.

>>20865383
>There's no proof that what I believe is true, but there's also no proof that (what I imagine) you believe is true, so therefore you can't criticize me for believing something for no reason
Oh my god. I'd be less embarrassed for you if you were arguing that Noah's Ark was real or something.

>>20865377
>Atheists aren't a group; it's just a catch-all term for people who don't believe in a god.
Practically all atheists are neo-positivists whose denial of God is predicated on a specific epistemological and metaphysical presuppositions. This is just a smokescreen to cover for the fact the atheist really doesn't want those presuppositions scrutinized because they're incoherent.

Also agnosticism and atheism are seperate positions and that will always be the case in philosophy no matter how hard atheists try to move the goalposts back to agnosticism while claiming they're atheists.

>>20865392
You misunderstand me. I was pointing out that if you reject arguments for God logically you should reject all arguments for the existence of a world outside your mind since they're of the same type and both are empirically unverifiable. I never said you are a solipsist, just that you would be one if you were logically consistent with your epistemological demands.

>>20865401
I think you know no one in the history of the world has ever found this kind of reasoning persuasive.

>>20865401
If I believe in Jesous will he give me a big boob gf

>>20865383
>The problem with atheism is that I can take any purely negative position and stick my tongue out at you all day and say "You need to prove me wrong" like atheists do
I'm not asking you to prove anything wrong. I'm asking you to prove your own claims right. So far your only response to this sort of request is to go bananas and start calling people names.

>>20865423
>I'm not asking you to prove anything wrong
This is semantics. For every positive position there is an equivalent negative position. Proving atheism wrong is the equivalent of proving theism right and vice versa.

>I'm asking you to prove your own claims right
So am I. So can you prove there exists an objective world outside your mind using the same epistemological criteria you demand for God and if not why are you not a solipsist.

I'm trying to gently guide you toward the realization that the rationality of a position isn't dependent on it being empirically verifiable or proven. Solipsism is, in fact, an irrational position but it's irrational because those who profess it cannot live according to what they say is true, not because it can be proven or disproven.

>>20865415
No.

>>20865369
You can't begin to voice any reasonable disagreement with a position you refuse to understand.
To review: I can explain my positions but you ignore the explanations and pretend I said something different.
You have all the information you need but don't care. Instead you repeat your religious dogma with no hint of coherent reasoning behind any of it. You reject things without bothering to consider them at all. That's acting based on dogma instead of reason.

>>20865357
Prove God exists.

>>20858011
>asking simple critical questions can bring down a civilization
Yes.

>>20865871
You've just proven that you are a projecting retard.
I see no point in even attempting to have a conversation with you.
If this was bait, then at least it was high effort and I commend you for that.

>>20865877
We went over this. You're not sincere. You're not actually asking for criticism of your dogma, you have no clue what any of the words in that post even mean. Prove anything.
I could argue for your position better than you can, partly because I know the religion of atheism from experience far better than you but also because you can't argue for any position. That needs a working mind capable of reason.

>>20865913
>You've just proven that you are a projecting retard.
Notice the objective difference in quality between our posts. I expand on what I say. I reference specific behavior from you and explain why it's braindead. You just say "no u" and then at best repeat the same tired lines you've been programmed with.

>>20865924
Prove God exists.

>>20857987
Here. The best anti-atheist book is an actual atheology discourse. It is so fucking inane and childish in its argumentation that it alone does a better job at discrediting its proponent than any actual assault against them.

>>20865930
Again you refuse to even try to discuss anything, a sincere person interested in finding things out would expand on what he means like I asked you to.
Do you accept the idea of logical proof like used in math?
Logical causality demands a prime mover. If logical proof is valid then the prime mover exists.
You've heard all this and don't care. You'll completely ignore logic and proof while just repeating some other tired propaganda line. Some of you retards actually respond by trying to undermine logic, right after asking for "proof" as if proof can exist outside logic.

>>20865942
Prove God exists.

>>20865970
There's proof in that post. The proof sits above math. If you consider math proofs valid than this proof is valid since it rests on fewer suppositions.

>>20865993
>prime mover is le... GOD

>>20865927
You have just repeated the same exact shit. You are using common arguments against theism and turning it against atheism.
You are the very definition of a projecting retard.
There is no scientific backing or evidence to suggest any God exists. Either prove definitively that God exists or be quiet.
>>20865942
>bringing up logic and mathematics as if this somehow backs your claim
I have both a math and an engineering degree.
>muh prime mover argument
This has been debunked so many times, to start with I'll simply say that claims are not evidence.
Going further, even if you are to believe the "Prime Mover" argument, nothing necessitates that it be a sapient or even sentient being.
>>20865993
So you're actually retarded. Logic doesn't dictate that a God has to exist. Logic is just a method of reasoning. Everything you just said you pulled out of your ass.
There's your last (You). You put way too much effort into this for me to assume you're baiting.

>>20864770
not him but i was "brainwashed" by being in a crazy christian family that sent me flying in the opposite direction. I spent 15 years laughing at any religious beliefs that I failed to take them as the wisdom they are and allow myself to try and understand their fundamental truths.

Even if you don't believe in any religious dogma, you're missing out on thousands of years of philosophy, psychology, law, etc by throwing out religious texts.

>>20866001
I told you before that you don't know what any of the words you use in your demands mean and won't accept any definitions I give.
You don't think, you just repeat the brainwashing.
>You are using common arguments against theism and turning it against atheism.
You think this make it less true? I explained why the arguments are valid. Theists can ignore reason in favor of dogma and so can you. There's no difference. This demonstrates that modern "atheists" don't understand anything. Even when they criticize dogmatic thinking they don't understand what they're criticizing, they think it just means acting like a Christian.
>There is no scientific backing
Any science rests on more assumptions than pure logic.
>or evidence
Another example of using words you don't understand at all. Everything is "evidence" for God, that does not tell us if the existence of God is demonstrable or "provable". I gave you logical proof and you ignored it like I said you would.
>This has been debunked so many times
Do it retard. Logic demands a prime cause. Anything you say will be some braindead shit about temporal causality, bringing big bangs into it.
>nothing necessitates that it be a sapient or even sentient
I did not say it did. Again you're demonstrating a refusal to even try to understand what anything means. Conflating every idea about "God" that ever existed into something I need to "prove" to you.

None of this is even relevant to the actual claims I started with. Which are all about you being completely unable to reason which this post demonstrates again.
>Logic doesn't dictate that a God has to exist. Logic is just a method of reasoning.
I'm referencing a well established consensus based in strict reason. The only coherent position on this subject, the position the guy that developed formal logic as we know it originally put forward as one of the few things known as true.
Your predictable religious zealot reply is "nuh uh, my dogma says otherwise, my high priest already deboonked this". Not even a hint of an attempt to reason.

>>20866008
>There is no scientific backing or evidence to suggest any God exists.

These “I hecking love science” humanities guys are so cringe. What does this mean? What is the branch of science that would be able to prove/disprove God?

>>20866049
Stop trembling, godcuck, you replied to the wrong post.

>>20866054
Say something retard. Just the slightest hint of an actual thought process would prove me completely wrong.
Nobody that identifies as an "atheist" on boards like this think. Not a single one of you. If you did you would understand how retarded it is.
Doubting claims and applying skepticism is reasonable, that's not what anyone in the atheist religion actually does.

>>20866075
Dr. Soistein here, take your meds.

>>20866008
>You are using common arguments against theism and turning it against atheism.
If you had any self awareness this should make you realize how shallow they are.

>There is no scientific backing or evidence to suggest any God exists.
Back up hoss, your epistemology is flawed. We need to discuss what constitutes "evidence" and knowledge before we even start discussing what evidence there is. In other words it's not that there is "no evidence" it's that your dumb neo-positivist epistemology rules out the evidence apriori

>This has been debunked so many times
Almost every time I've read this it's from an atheist who cites some blogger who has no idea what they're talking about. Almost always philosophical ignoramuses who can't track an argument properly and try citing "fallacies" like they're counterspells in Magic the Gathering.

>>20866049
Aaaaand here he is, absolutely seething, making the same foolish arguments.
>>20866051
Honestly. Everyone's religious beliefs are their own business, I just have a problem when they pull out this humanities bullshit and try to pass it off as evidence.
Not to shit on people who are into the humanities or anything, a lot of it is interesting, but please for the love of God (haha), stay in your lane.

I just ignore any atheist who hasn't read the Hermetic Corpus because they're just talking out their ass about shit that goes over their head.

have sex

>>20866100
>Aaaaand here he is
Braindead. Did you read that post and think I was making a scientific case for God? Then you're illiterate and braindead.
>try to pass it off as evidence.
You have no clue what you're talking about it. You won't elaborate on what you think "evidence" means. Why are logical proofs not "evidence" in this case but you accept them as the standard for proof in all other cases?
I identified as a hard skeptic since I was a child. I grew out of the brainwashing by actually reading and trying to understand different perspectives instead of repeating the same lines you do mindlessly. You have no point, your entire religion is based on subverting reason and understanding of history.
>humanities
This is yet another attempt to appeal to what you consider authoritative dogma without even trying to think. Another attempt to find a lazy category to dismissively put any criticism in so you won't have to think, so you can continue to behave like a religious zealot.

>>20866214
You are an idiot.

>>20866234
Say something retard. It should be so easy but you can't say anything. You haven't thought about any of this even a little. You just mindlessly repeat the words.
What do you mean by evidence? Why did the standard of proof you accept suddenly change radically when it doesn't serve your propaganda?

>>20858655
Bro that image is so retarded and Evola would have laughed at you.

>ITT Positivist niggers

>>20866247
There is no point in arguing with you because you desperately keep moving the goalposts.
Your humanities bullshit does absolutely nothing to prove that God exists. The fact that you think it does tells me all I need to know about your very low intelligence.
Now have a good night, dear. Keep owning those dogmatic atheist religious nutjobs :^)

>>20866261
/thread
And seeing the number of posters here, it's only going to get gayer.

>>20866263
>keep moving the goalposts
The original point was you retards are incapable of reason and just repeat words you don't understand and can't elaborate on.
The predictable replies from multiple atheist zealots was "prove God exists".
I pointed out there's no common basis for any "proof" and you all refuse to elaborate on what kind of proof you would accept. I can actually use reason so I understand the proof of the prime mover, it really is proof. The issue is somewhere in your brain.
>humanities
All science rests in formal logic. You don't understand science, truth, evidence or anything you mindlessly appeal to as authorities. You're willfully ignorant and arguing that others should worship ignorance like you.
Just read your own posts, the only purpose they serve is subversion, to infect people with thought stopping cancer.

>>20866265
>all the metaphysical shit are just abstract bro
>"the one and the many problem" thats just sky daddying bro
>rules of logic? Thats just a tool we majoritically invented bro, its abstract at best bro
These niggers are so retarded, why not follow Quine who is a consistent atheist, no metaphysics, no epistomology, just psychology or appeal to emotions, appeal to consensus or might is right

>>20866261
>Positivist
Only when it suits them. These guys still acted as if black holes existed before any experimental evidence because the formal logical model that predicted other experiments also predicted them.

>>20866274
>Evidence
Anything that can physically prove beyond any reasonable doubt that a divine hand had to create the universe. Something physically measurable. Do that and any atheist would believe in God. Oh wait, you can't.

>>20866293
An incredibly braindead post.
>prove beyond any reasonable doubt
Can you name an example of something else that you have proven in such a way?
>a divine hand
Deliberately obfuscating meaning and conflating every retarded idea ever thought of into one. I was talking about the prime mover, once you accept that you can move on to understanding other properties of this phenomena that absolutely exists.
>physically
Everything physical proves the prime mover exists. You can't model physics without starting with the prime mover as a premise, doesn't matter if you hide it or ignore it, it's still there in your model.
You need a model to measure so how do you measure physical things? With logic.

>>20866317
Yes anon. For example you can prove through our understanding of physics that air will be at a certain pressure in certain conditions. You lack a complete understanding of anything involving science.
Thanks again for showing me the level of intellect I'm dealing with here.
>everything physical proves the prime mover exists
Nonsense.