/lit/ - Literature

>>20850491
The nation-state did not exist before 1789

>>20850495
Nationalism has existed since antiquity

so you're braver than sassoon are you, anon?

Industrial warfare is not the same as the classic romantic idea of warfare. I heard a clip of some British sounding conservative talk about how there is nothing heroic about being shot in half by a gunship before you can even raise your Armalite.

>>20850540
OP is a faggot what else is new

>>20850540
>>20850548
>taking britfag propaganda stories seriously

>>20850553
Join the military and bum rush some muzzies then

>>20850557
>fight for israel
No.

>>20850568
I accept your concession

>>20850585
Your pilpul and snide tricks won't work here.

>>20850491
WW1 was fake. that's why they used poets to tell the "history" of it

>>20850540
>wins a 1v60
I've never believed these stories and never will.

>>20850491
Gosh, I wonder if the innovations of mechanized warfare may have been a bit traumatic to the men who participated in the Great War.

>>20851130
Some crazy nigga rushes into your trench with a shitload of grenades you’d be getting the fuck out of there too. Live to fight another day

>>20850542
>>20851161
These, fucking retard OP.

>>20850491
The whole point is that WW1 - which was essentially a waking nightmare, full of barbed-wire, poison gas, and festering shrapnel wounds - dispelled the romantic notions of war, manhood, and chivalry that came before, revealing them to be nothing more than children's bedtime stories. (Especially since the War wasn't fought for any great principle, just a senseless tangle of diplomatic agreements that no ordinary person knew or cared about in the first place.) It was a moment where humanity woke in shock from its dreams, and saw the horror of its real situation.

for an old bitch gone in the teeth, for a botched civilization

>>20851162
So shoot him? He's just one guy. This shit's either heavily embellished or just made up.
>>20851212
>war was never dangerous or frightening before
You sound like a faggot pseud, especially considering the bravado surrounding ww2.

>>20850491
>all heroic and nationalistic
Never heard of the aesthetic movement?

>>20850491
Every couple of years the amount of deluded dumb fucks who dream of being a hero reaches a critical mass, then whoever gets back has a lifetime to share their regrets

>>20850501
Wrong, nationalism as we know it today is a modern phenomenon and therefore bad.

>>20850491
Because heroism is a mythological thing. It has nothing to do with war.
Problems start when you replace real life scenarios/people with archetypes. No real life person or situation can be an archetype.

>>20850540
I guarantee this never happened

>>20851405
I'm a mentally challenged retard and I wholeheartedly agree with this post.

>>20850491
Read Junger.

>why don't we get even more propaganda?

>>20851733
Of course not. They forgot to write that after he raided the trenches, the German captors clapped

>>20850491
The average soldier in WW1 was literate, unlike the largely uneducated serfs and peasants who came before.

>>20852438
This OP, your questions are well answered by Jünger. I'd recommend The Worker, but it's a very challenging read without background information (I'm writing a thesis on Jünger atm which will help with that).

>>20850491
1789 started the Death of the Aristocracy
1815 started the Death of God
1914 started the Death of Heroism
1944 (Bretton Woods) started the Death of Nationalism
1971 (dismantling of Bretton Woods signaling the functional end of the Cold War) started the Death of Metaphysics

you're here

>>20850491
it's almost like ww1 ended up being a nonsense ordeal where people were no longer fighting for an ideal, they were just fighting

>>20850491
The fuck are you talking about?

>>20852726
Not to mention this was around the point where literacy was becoming mainstream so more poets with more points of view. It's impressive that the mud and shit covered grunts never seemed to complain about it when their complaints were entirely verbal and to each other.

>>20852721
>1944 (Bretton Woods) started the Death of Nationalism
Change this to the 1945 Nuremberg

>>20851212
is there any history of WW1 that wasn't written by marxist-socialist-humanist opinion-formers working for the British government?

>>20850491
Because WW1 was a gruesome shitfest that caused more evil than any single event in human history, such as the destruction of Awesome Germany

We would've unironically colonized Mars if Kaiserreich had won

>>20852871
More like if WW1 never happened and Imperial Dutchland got to develop like Japan for a whole century

>>20850495
Idiot, it originated in ancient China

>>20852438
The only thing you can come away with after reading all of Jünger is what the world wars were the apocalypse.

>>20850495
Trojans were nationalist of Troy. You are a fucking retard.

>>20853199
That's a city

poets were always queer you fucking retard pol faggot, the great american poet walt whitman was a flaming faggot

>>20850491
These people fought and died in a horrific war that resulted in technological advancements that today allow people to talk dogshit online about how le Jewish boogeyman faked WW1.

>>20850491
>forced to fight a pointless imperial war in which nations are destroyed and millions killed to no end
>repudiate chauvinism
no fukken way

>>20853238
You are forgetting the concept of scale. Every man born is nationalistic and nationalist towards his own people.

If you think otherwise then you are retarded, period.

Or a liar. You are wrong either way. Only Jews try to pretend that men don’t prefer to protect their people and boundaries no matter the scale.

How stupid can you be?

>>20853286
The Jews are responsible. 1870 was the year Jews gained global media dominance and from that point were able to control the narrative.

Osman Bey points this out in his 1873 book The Conquest of the World by Jews.

>>20853390
Seethe. Troy will never be a nation no matter how much you shift the goalpost, and you will never be a woman

>>20853437
Troy was a nation. I’m not sorry that you are indeed a dumb fucking retard. It’s hilarious really.

You forgot scale at the door and now the door is hitting you on the ass on your way out.


Hahaha

>>20853457


Go back to your nation.


By that I mean the site you come from.


Reddit.

>>20853476
I don’t come from Reddit. People who claim Nationalism is a recent invention are fucking morons who ignore human nature and the nature of scale.

Your ideas are not based on reality but Jewish none sense that men do not prefer their own and protect it.

The Hyena pisses on the Lions territory. The lion sees and promptly kills the Hyena.

You have exposed yourself as a redditor. A bleater of Jewish modernism which is the denial of race and nation.

The door has already hit your ass and yet you complain.

>>20850491
>Why is it that before WW1 all poetry was heroic and nationalistic in character
it wasnt
> but as soon as WW1 hits you get a bunch of queers with faggot names like "Siegfried Sassoon" whining about how muddy it is in some sloppy free verse?
cause they realized poetry had become stale and worthless

The majority of ww1 poetry was actually nationalistic and heroic, Owen and Sassoon were just popularized after the war by lefty publishers.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-wilfred-owen-s-poetry-any-good-

>>20853523
>stale and worthless
And yet modernism kiled interest in pietry among the general public.

>>20853252
>whitman
>great poet
Do Americans really?

>>20853561
no, poetry was already slated to die. modernism was the funerary procession of poetry.

>>20850495
This is what Christians actually believe.

>>20853551
they don't popularize any actual history. just poems. and lefty's seem to have a strong collective memory of these poems which doesn't even mesh with anything else they say on a day to day basis. it's quite jarring at this point. but combine this kitsch socialist sentimentalism with germany's jewish bolsheviks launching a socialist revolution right as the "war" was drawing to a close, and you start to see the real picture. ww1 was a psychological operation

>>20853761
No they don't, you disingenuous retard.

>>20853681
Poetry was popular before modernism turned it into mastubatory free verse nonsense.

"Goethe said of war that there is nothing greater than to be wounded. Or rather, that there is nothing more accursed than not to be wounded. It is in being wounded that one sees the fortunes of war, without it there is nothing but empty work, and with it the retreat of Ares as the battle lines disappear and one begins to celebrate within the plunder of dominion. All that had been sacrificed begins to form as law, wealth returns to the territory which approached ruin. This is also the highest point in the Iliad, when the heroes are wounded they ascend to the law - each becomes like Nestor, their only concern in raising up the autochthonous forces to their highest.

Patroclus is not a hero simply because he chooses to fight. It is precisely his blindness to the fight which makes him a tragic figure, much like Hector. They are one: heroic as warriors but blinded to the greater laws. Nor does Achilles cease to be a hero because he falls away from the fight. One must be willing to step away from battle, even when one's innermost being is that of a warrior, and watch one's nation burn under the spell of wine. Achilles ceases to fight because of the higher laws, and even as the heroes curse him Nestor sees this passing of time, the turning of the age which can only rise of necessity and through its natural course. War can only be understood in this sense, as sacrifice to the highest laws and wealth.

To make an idol of war does not solve the antiwar character of the age, they are one. War increases in its destructive force and becomes a permanent state where the only law is defense against war. Here one may see the antiwar character of the conservatives and reactionaries, their idea is of a war of negation, of total war in defense of character, the last hold being overrun by a greater form of war. This is what Junger saw, and before him Tocqueville and Goethe. The only opposition to antiwar positions is to see the law of this new territory of war and begin to fight there. This marks a greater wound, but also the potential for ever greater fortunes."

>>20854638
My reading of peace would not differ very much from this. War and peace are equal in their sacrifice to the highest laws, and one finds peace most where he is willingly committed to sacrificing himself. Where peace seems impossible one can assume great masses of those incapable of sacrifice.

In another sense, no sacrifice seems great enough for the peace that is desired. This suggests that peace is beyond the capacity of the antiwar forces, or perhaps even that peace is not their end. One need only consider what a 'noble pacifism' might look like: caring for the wounded and maimed, upholding the principles of peace as a wealth of being rather a technical principle, and most importantly fighting against the civil warfare specific to democracy and the homeland front. Investigating pacifism it is nearly impossible to find examples of any of these traits. What is clear however is the desire for warfare stemming from the homeland, but also a type of warfare which does not what to hear anything from the front. This gives another meaning to the idea that Ares fights on both sides of the line.

Tales of this are common enough, one can easily find examples of a soldier returning home only to have his tales dismissed by a father or wife. The division is clear, a sort of passive battle occurs in the homeland against the war character even as the civilian makes sacrifices of goods to defeat the enemy, even advocating for blockades and starvation of foreign women and children. The fight against enemy civilians began well before the air raids.

>>20854644
As always jungeranon was right
>>/lit/thread/S17060818#p17071129

Post books

>>20852438
imagine unironically publishing "my diary desu" and getting famous from it

>>20857280
There might be a reason for that.

Is this entire board filled with brainrot like this thread or is this all just bots?

>>20853390
you are confusing patriotism with nationalism

why is /lit/ so dumb?

>>20850491
>a bunch of queers with faggot names like "Siegfried Sassoon" whining about how muddy it is
It's because they were not tough like you are. You are very tough. Good job!

>>20850491
The scale and nature of warfare was different. "Carnage incomparable and human squander" and all that

>>20859179
It's /lit/