/lit/ - Literature

>>20848430
He was a massive pseud. In that very book he states that he is more afraid of being understood than of being misunderstood. Mega cringe, much like your post, OP.

>>20848448
There is strength in vulnerability. Someone who cares about the truth doesn’t hide it. He makes his confession about it and everything he writes at the beginning of the book.

It has gradually become clear to me what every great philosophy up till now has consisted of — namely, the confession of its originator, and a species of involuntary and unconscious auto-biography; and moreover that the moral (or immoral) purpose in every philosophy has constituted the true vital germ out of which the entire plant has always grown.
Indeed, to understand how the abstrusest metaphysical assertions of a philosopher have been arrived at, it is always well (and wise) to first ask oneself: “What morality do they (or does he) aim at?” Accordingly, I do not believe that an “impulse to knowledge” is the father of philosophy; but that another impulse, here as elsewhere, has only made use of knowledge (and mistaken knowledge!) as an instrument. But whoever considers the fundamental impulses of man with a view to determining how far they may have here acted as INSPIRING GENII (or as demons and cobolds), will find that they have all practiced philosophy at one time or another, and that each one of them would have been only too glad to look upon itself as the ultimate end of existence and the legitimate LORD over all the other impulses. For every impulse is imperious, and as SUCH, attempts to philosophize. To be sure, in the case of scholars, in the case of really scientific men, it may be otherwise — “better,” if you will; there there may really be such a thing as an “impulse to knowledge,” some kind of small, independent clock-work, which, when well wound up, works away industriously to that end, WITHOUT the rest of the scholarly impulses taking any material part therein. The actual “interests” of the scholar, therefore, are generally in quite another direction — in the family, perhaps, or in money-making, or in politics; it is, in fact, almost indifferent at what point of research his little machine is placed, and whether the hopeful young worker becomes a good philologist, a mushroom specialist, or a chemist; he is not CHARACTERISED by becoming this or that. In the philosopher, on the contrary, there is absolutely nothing impersonal; and above all, his morality furnishes a decided and decisive testimony as to WHO HE IS, — that is to say, in what order the deepest impulses of his nature stand to each other.

>>20848430
>>20848472
The tragedy is that for all his insight, he can't save himself.

I always liked sections 30 and 40 in part 2. The wisdom of a higher intellect can appear and sometimes be, poison to those of lower thought

>>20848448
Filtered, brutally.

>>20848477
That’s because the will to power isn’t wise, there is no true intelligence in it, even if it leads you to a place of “intelligence”.

>>20848482
>higher intellect
It's his will that differentiates him, his intellect is no higher than any other good philosopher.

>>20848494
I agree his passion is what I like the most about him. His feelings were very real to him, and everything he writes in his philosophy is centered around giving dignity back to his feelings. He honors them and sees them as part of the vital force of the universe. I like most of all that he was German, a people who tend to be closed off inside, culturally at least

>>20848489
But logic isn't intelligence either, because what brings humans happiness isn't logical. It's the instinct, that's the highest intelligence. The natural, the feminine. What makes a woman a tiger and a man a dog.

>>20848511
The marriage of love and wisdom is what intelligence is. No goodness without truth and no truth without goodness

>>20848520
But Nietzsche criticism of Plato is valid. Plato tried to merge the good and the logical as if they were full in accordance and harmony, but they're not. The logical contradicts the good and vice versa.

>>20848530
I don’t think it’s about the fixed eternal goodness Plato talked about. I like neitzsches moral relativity. There are times where the logical contradicts the good and vice versa. But it’s about bringing them as close together as we can as best we know how. Is what I’m doing good for me, my neighbor, my community, country, world, etc. or on the other end, yea this feels good or makes us happy, but how does it effect what I know to be true about myself, neighbor, community, country, world etc. that’s what leads to the best we are capable of on every level. it’s about acknowledging our humaness like nietzche did so well, and living in humility and awareness of it when we try to be intelligent. These considerations will never be perfect because we’re limited, but it’s the best way to go down swinging imo

>>20848485
Seethe, dilate, other generic response, etc.

>>20848477
>There is a false saying, ‘Whoever cannot save himself - how can he save others?’ But if I have the key to your chains, why should your and my lock be the same?

>>20848430
Are you fags looking for friends in dead philosophers? Maybe that's why most of you get mad when your 'friends' get attacked.

>>20848549
Where it gets really interesting is that people's instincts as so different and that's where Plato's hearts make sense. Some people need to follow only logic because their hearts are rotten. Others have a great heart but an average mind, so they're better off just following the good as they feel it.

It's when you have a lot of abilities that the trouble comes, because you don't know what to listen to. Nietzsche had this problem and so did Plato.

>>20848477
Can anybody really?

>>20848585
A sick doctor can still heal

>>20848606
Basically what he's saying, yes.

>>20848595
I agree with that. I think the two most fundamental aspects of the mind are the will and the intellect. The will holds the hierarchy of our “loves”, the things that move us to act, our “warmth” in life (he was a very warm person!). The intellect houses our truths, the facts we learn, what we come to know, our “light” in life(I’ve seen the light!). Together they are like a fire. I also believe ancient people were much smarter than we give them credit for, that they knew this and that it explains sun worship. They were worshiping the “great mind” from which if it didn’t exist there would be no life. (Excuse me for jumping off the deep end). Our rationality is born of the interplay between these things. In some one is stronger than the other. I think Plato was right about what he said.

>>20848601
yes
> proof? how?
by closing this forsaken website

>>20848430
I feel that way when i read books too... It's so magical, you can't find it in any other form of media. Even if they are dead, you feel like you made a friend, as if the two of you linked your souls, even if it was only for a moment.

>>20848667
It feels like a deep conversation with a friend. Makes me a better man

>>20848667
>>20848684
My kind of lads.

>>20848601
>>20848606
>>20848585
>>20848638

You can't change who you are, that's what Nietzsche didn't get.

>>20848724
That is where my Christian belief begins

>>20848724
Nah, he understood that too:

>Do not be virtuous beyond your strengths! And will nothing of yourselves that is contrary to probability! Walk in the footsteps where your fathers' virtue walked before! How could you climb high if your fathers' will did not climb with you? But whoever would be a firstling should see to it that he does not also become a lastling! And where the vices of your fathers are, there you should not pretend to be saints! If your fathers took to women and strong wine and boar swine, what would be the use of demanding chastity of yourself? It would be a folly!

Thus Spoke Zarathustra.

>>20848530
in what way are they in conflict?

>>20848751
The overman. What he recommends for others is not always for himself, you just have to read between the lines. Just feel his essence, he wanted to go beyond. His drug use clarifies it further.

>>20848806
The Overman isn't an example of changing who you are either. Per Nietzsche's own words, the Overman is one who represents "the antithetical character of existence most strongly, as its glory and sole justification" (WP 881), who has "the greatest multiplicity of drives, in the relatively greatest strength that can be endured" (WP 966), who bears "the greatest responsibility" and doesn't "collapse under it" (WP 975), who lives "beyond the rulers, freed from all bonds" (WP 998), and who "determines values and directs the will of millennia by giving direction to the highest natures" (WP 999).

Nowhere is it suggested that this individual changed who he was; it is in the Overman's character / self to become as such. Become Who You Are, as the subtitle of his work Ecce Homo says.

>>20848824
But you already are. Agency or will does not lead to becoming. You are and so you do. It's believing that you must become that drives you off the center of what you are.

>>20848895
The phrase "become who you are" is another way of saying to overcome your own shadow, your insecurities, fears, and moral convictions that hold you back from acting out your drive in society. The Overman must do the same, and his shadow is going to be greater than anyone else's, but he's not changing his self anymore than anyone else is.

>>20848724
>You can't change who you are
What a massive slave cope, people change all the time.

>>20848927
Not him, but no one changes their self, only the masks that they wear to express and conceal their self.

>>20848921
Nietzsche says there has never been an overman. We are not a rapidly evolving species. We are a higher successful apex predator species that needs not to evolve. If there has never been an overman there will never be one.

>>20848935
Well then you are as retarded as him, plenty of people change, just because you cannot that's your problem.

>>20848927
>>20848935
Nobody changes, they just cope.

nobody ever does change. any moment of self-driven change you may experience in your life is either a false sense shedding of skin, or a true death of your previous self and the birth of a new one. the old you is simply no longer you, no longer anything at all, and you have no reason to associate with its tastes, opinions, vices or virtues, unless you have a personal advantageous reason for doing so. what im basically saying is that you really shouldnt pay your taxes

Only a generic atheist can appreciate Nietzche.
He was a nihilist atheist so he tried to turn ''nihilism'' into ''optimistic nihilism'' by doing 2 things
-first by being a deceitful bitch, like any atheist, by redefining nihilism to mean ''christianity''
nihilism according to women, atheists and NPCs like nietzche mean ''thinking long term''. So according to them, when christians think what will happen after death and focus on that, that's ''nihilism''. According to atheists, ''non-nihilism'' is ''living in the present moment like Dionysus''
-second, by saying that since there is no truth and only subjective values, people should fight for their personal values. So for instance, trannies, BLM, feminists are the ubermen according to nietzche because
--they fight for their own values
--they are subversive of the ''old values'', ie the values of the british judean dutch french bourgeois merchant rats who started liberalism 300 years ago, in order to kill kings and priests and make the bureaucrats and merchants the ruling caste in their ''nationalist democratic republics''

there that's all there is nietzche . Optimistic nihilism is retarded and a huge cope by atheists to justify hedonism lol. But bitches like nietzche dont call hedonism ''hedonism'', they call it 'vitalism''.
nietzche is an hedonism, like any atheist, but atheists are desperate to earn atheist karma points, after saying objective morality and truth doesnt exist lol, and they embark on a self-made self-aggrandizing narratives wherein they are cooming like Dionysus and at the same time ''fighting for values''.
The other cope by atheists is ''traditionalism'', ie ''everyday I want a bureaucratic daddy to tell me what do to in his fascist republic while I am pretending to be wicca witch doing magic in my sparetime like Evola''.

>>20848824
>and who "determines values and directs the will of millennia by giving direction to the highest natures" (WP 999).
here is the overwoman by Nietzche

>In 2021, on the 10th anniversary of Occupy Wall Street, The Atlantic listed several long-term influences of the protests, including "Reinventing Activism" by encouraging "a generation to take to the streets and demand systemic reforms", influencing the Green New Deal, influencing activism for higher minimum wages, and "shifting the window of what is deemed politically acceptable discourse and pulling the nation to the left."[173]

thanks to leftists, old values by the patriarchal cis white males are replaced by life-affirming values created by the overwomen

>>20848448
Hello fellow midwit

>>20849053
You see why you have to stay unchanging? Men off their center produce this degeneracy.

Nietzsche confuses the will for desire at times. He just needed to grab his balls and say "this is who I am, I am Freddy" And fuck everything else.

>>20848448
If he was understood by his temporal peers, he wouldn't have been "born posthumously"

>>20848606
I cloud have saved him

>>20849323
By doing what?

>>20849323
Seems like what he wanted more than anything was a good woman who would love him despite the bad parts. Warts and all. And being so smart he had a lot of warts. With great light comes great night.

>>20849414
Lou Salome wasn't exactly a good woman. He was nuts, he didn't want peace, he didn't want love. When there is no war the warrior attacks himself.

>>20849428
I think he got sick because he couldn't always accept his own vulnerablity. Its harder for people who have "good defenses" like nietzsche did. He wrote an entire philosophy about willing power, that was his confession, of course he would have a hard time with accepting the lack of it. I think he wanted it but he didnt know how, and not knowing was something hard for him, probably humiliated him, because he was used to knowing everything others couldnt, and here everyone else seemed able to realize something he couldn't seem to grasp. That woman was a bitch, but she was a bitch of nietzsches own making. She was the logical conclusion to everything he wrote. He was killed by his own sword. His experience with her is one of the reasons why I know he wasn't right about everything. He was missing the goodness of love, in his eras of his philosophy and in his life.

>>20849428
utimately there is one thing that none of us can get away from no matter how we try to philosophize it away. "I need you". We can lie and fool ourselves, but it changes nothing of the fact that without others we reject the fullness of life. The worst part of life is rarely the pain, but it is feeling alone with the pain that makes it so unbearable. The tonic is love, which should be the highest psychic prioity of man. and love is found in others.
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
Jesus replied: “’Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
This is the first and greatest commandment.
And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.
’All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

>>20849493
He writes about the horror of receiving. I think it's there, you can't accept a gift you didn't earn. But why couldn't he will and why couldn't he earn?

It's conscience or compassion or some bullshit. The virtue of the prostitute. He wants but he can't get because it's not virtuous. Willing for the sake of willing is not virtuous.

It's the dog, it's domestication. We can't will because it's been bred out of us. But how do you reverse domestication? That's what he tried and failed to do.

Feralization through loneliness.

>>20848957
>If there has never been an overman there will never be one.
No, that doesn't follow, and if he thought that, he wouldn't have bothered writing his books.

>>20849724
I dont agree with that

>>20849724
>But how do you reverse domestication?
Unironically through democratic capitalism, which is in the process of forcing tons of weak males out of the gene pool so that the top 5% most assertive males can have huge harems.

>>20849735
But that's the opposite of what society and women want. He basically made himself an outcast.

>>20849759
How do you explain Tom Ford or some other faggot who seemingly wills out of his ass like it's nothing? These are not aggressive men, they're hyper-socialized.

>>20849047
You never read Nietzsche, if you did you wouldn't be a tradcath larping zoomer impotently writing your fanfic.

>>20849779
I don't see why I should care since his genes won't be continuing anyway.

>>20849788
Then some hyper-socialized straight guy like Woody Allen or any one of the men who kiss the ass of women and have plenty of kids. They will without the need for loneliness. Nietzsche calls for loneliness but what does it really give you?

>>20849812
>Nietzsche calls for loneliness but what does it really give you?
The ability to bend the will of others to yours. People like Woody Allen don't change much in the long run, but the scientists and tech entrepreneurs and artists who dedicate their lives to their craft shape the entire world for generations to come.

>>20849826
I don't know, Woody Allen shaped the culture, just like Shakespeare shaped his. All this modernist mantra that would've stayed obscure in college campuses and in the writings of neglected philosophers went mainstream because of Woody Allen.

>>20849826
The point is that what gets you to will is something else. How does a small frail man like Woody Allen pump out a film every couple of years that he wrote and directed?

>>20849855
Woody Allen's influence will be over in about 50 years, while the scientists and entrepreneurs sending us to Mars currently will have changed history for centuries to come.

>>20849872
>How does a small frail man like Woody Allen pump out a film every couple of years that he wrote and directed?
He pays people to do it.

>>20849882
>He pays people to do it.
Now you're just coping.

>sending us to Mars .
Kek.


You're not getting the point, will comes from somewhere else, there's a mystery to it that Nietzsche didn't understand.

>>20849738
He wrote them because he was sick and trying to find the remedy.

>>20849909
How is that a cope? That's literally what he does. He doesn't make the movies himself. Weak little gremlins like him get by because the economic structure supports him. It also supports the alphas with harems, but as above, so below.

>>20848430
It's okay, I feel the same way with Thoreau. But I'm also from New England so his work hits different if you live here. I just took my gf through Concord the other day to show her how beautiful his town is.

>>20849924
>alphas with harems
Weinstein? Epstein? No, it supports nobody.

>>20849944
The harems are coming. Pay attention to the modern dating scene to see why.

>>20849952
All I see is weak men who can't will and women that act more and more provocatively to mock the weakness of men. Many of these 'high status' men are addicts and weak. And yet they will. That's the point, you don't need strength to will.

Nietzsche was busy building strength but only the warrior needs strength and there is no war.

>>20849962
>you don't need strength to will.
Who ever said you did? But again, the will of weaklings doesn't last long, and nothing you've said changes that.

The weak that can will vs the weak that can't.

>>20849964
> the will of weaklings doesn't last long
They only get to reproduce.

>>20849970
They can shit out as many retards as they want. Their will ceases to have an influence beyond like two generations.

>>20849974
Influence? if the majority of society is weak, then it's the influence of Woody Allen that they want, not Nietzsche's. That's the irony of capitalism and democracy. If everyone is equal and the weak are the majority, then what sells is what's for the weak and who can reach the weak but the weak?

>>20849929
I never read him. He was the naturalist right

>>20849990
>it's the influence of Woody Allen that they want, not Nietzsche's
No shit. It was already like that while Nietzsche was still alive. That doesn't change the fact that there are individuals currently changing the world in dramatic ways. Democracy can't stop the inequality that evolution creates.

>>20850007
There is no evolution, there is devolution.

>>20849992
Yes, but his writings are rather broad. Naturalist, philosopher, poet, minor industrialist, he was endlessly speculating.

>>20850023
There's both, Mr. Last Man.

>>20850028
If I ever make a million dollars, I'll retire and never not know what book someone is talking about again

>>20850037
What evolutionary pressure is there? What makes a good office worker?

>>20849990
Braindead

>>20850041
>What evolutionary pressure is there?
The threat of extinction surrounds many of us.

>>20850042
Look at Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos and tell me that they are models of human evolution, that they are overmen, that they are the image of human health. The weak reach the weak.

>>20849047
You're right. However, I can agree with you and believe something different at the same time.

>>20850040
Godspeed

>>20849047
Never stop posting, bro. It's always refreshing to see your posts and posting style.

>>20850056
So there is selection for who can handle degeneracy better? It's gay men. We have to face it, it's one step forwards two steps back. Successful species just simply don't evolve. Did the T-rex continue to evolve?

>>20850096
Fuck off, ESL.

>>20850113
>-second, by saying that since there is no truth and only subjective values, people should fight for their personal values. So for instance, trannies, BLM, feminists are the ubermen according to nietzche because
>--they fight for their own values
Explain it. Do you really still believe we're evolving?

If everyone fights for there own values and society imposes no ideal, nothing to strive for, then there is no evolutionary force. Everything is equal.

>>20850169
Everything is equal, but nothing has equity. if whatever your values are don't meaningfully correlate with the real world, you are will be making sacrifices others will abstain from, putting them at an advantage over you. IE. the weak will perish under the strong. This ties into why Nietzsche hated systems like the forms or religion that "devalued" the real world.

>>20850227
But the real world is devalued today. The real world cannot sustain trannies, or feminists, or many black people who refuse to adapt. We live in a covertly Christian society that accepts everyone and corrects nobody.

>>20850249
I agree with all of that. The great act of humanism has devalued the natural world in favour of ideals and abstractions, and (attempts to) give all men equity.

>>20850138
>Do you really still believe we're evolving?
The species was never evolving. It's only a rare few who are, and they don't cause the rest of the species to evolve with them. But the species can't stop those rare few from appearing every once in a while.

>>20850264
Then Christ won and he is God. This is what he wanted, the kingdom of heaven is on earth.

>>20850307
We, as better men, must die. The world belongs to the trannies and the blacks.

>>20850311
In a way you could argue that yes, since christian morals live on posthumously as humanism. You could also argue that man (as an individual, not an ideal) failed to move above Christianity.

>>20850322
You're not better.

>>20850327
Everything is Christian. We live in the most Christian time in all of history. Nietzsche just ushered in a new age of Christianity.

His father was a pastor, what else could Nietzsche be but Christian.

>>20850353
>Lutheran pastor
He could be the Antichrist.

>>20848448
fpbp
OP should get bullied and beaten up.

>>20850348
>Nietzsche just ushered in a new age of Christianity.
now this seems like a bit of a leap in logic. care to explain?

>>20850374
Impotent christcuck kvetches that people stop worshipping the dead Jews. Sad state of christcucks on 4chan.

>>20850360
Is the world today not full of peace and mediocrity? I think the meek have inherited the earth.

>>20850380
The meek have inherited the earth. This is what Hitler went berserk about, he was the real antichrist and he failed.

>>20850380
>>-second, by saying that since there is no truth and only subjective values, people should fight for their personal values. So for instance, trannies, BLM, feminists are the ubermen according to nietzche because
>>--they fight for their own values

>>20850386
>>20850397
Fearmongering won't save you.

>>20850413
thats a bit very carefully hidden in the wording, but notice how the things mentioned (BLM, trannies, feminists). When people "fight" for these things, is it really "their" values? Fighting for your right to exist as a tranny is one thing, but to expect a universal law of love from all people so that you will always be correct, always be loved, transcends what could be considered "your" value. It is no longer yours, it belongs to Man (lol)

>>20850441
They have their communities. Just look at reddit, there's nothing more Christian than the acceptance of the meek. When everyone's a freak nobody is.

>>20850441
I'm not even talking the bible, just Jesus himself. Would he not accept everyone as they are?

That mother fucker really is God. He;s been dead for 2000 years and everyone does his biding. He live in the subconscious.

I see it all now. The destruction of aesthetics, the acceptance of all cultures as equal, the destruction of European accomplishment. It’s all Christian, it’s the victory of the meek.

The future is African, they’re still reproducing.

>>20848448
filtered

imagine calling one of the most influential philosophers in history a pseud

>>20850580
Generally if someone is "widely influential" you know there is something wrong with them.

>>20850580
>appeal to popularity
lol lmao

>>20849047
>nietzsche
>nihilist
Stopped reading there. Normally i'd just reply with "terrible bait", but this board has gone to such shit these days i genuinely don't even know if i can doubt this was posted seriously