/lit/ - Literature

>>20841533
I rate the prose of an author by how many times I need to consult a dictionary per chapter.

Water sleeps

>"If she ran away, what then? She had no taste for filth or hunger, nor the cold wind by night, nor the certainty of rape."
>Madouc was uncertain as to the exact meaning of the word. "What is 'rape'?"
A whole 46 pages for Vance to mention rape. Surprisingly far into the novel for him, honestly.

>>20841588
There's nothing wrong with including rape in stories. It should be included more since it triggers fragile people.

>>20841601
heh, so true

>>20841619
Fedora types are all atheism+ moralfags now, so they'd be on your side if anything.

Fantasy prose Olympiad:
>bronze medal
Wolfe
>silver medal
Gu Zhen Ren
>gold medal
Bakker

Simple as.

What a truly awful start to the thread.

tfw no Shallan gf.

>>20841687
Built for BBC (Big Bakker Cock)

>>20841682
Here you go

who wins in the special olympics of prose?

>>20841711
Sander.

>>20841711
Chinese MTs

Why does Bakker reign supreme in the epic fantasy genre?

His books are heavily infused with philosophy, especially the first three books. , he is invigorating and unique. I don't think many books exist in the fantasy genre that are so heavy on philosophy.

>>20841778
Because you haven't read enough xianxia.

>>20841717
>I wish there were more in-depth lore analyses of RPGs like this. The Salt and Sanctuary one is very good too and I always recommend it.
If you are interested in novelization of games, there is one popular one of Planescape:Torment. Allegedly it's good.

/SFF/, what's the best fantasy/science-fiction erotica book you've read? As of late i've been getting into erotica genre, but most of those books are self-pub harems of suprisingly low quality.
The book I want doesn't need to focus on sexual elements, but should at least have significant presence of sexual elements in the story.

pretty decent, and much better than than the first book set in the universe, Black Man/Thirteen (you can skip it, they're not related plot wise at all).
most importantly it's back to one POV.
Morgan is apparently writing another book with the same MC.

if you liked Altered Carbon/Takeshi Kovacs, you'll like it

>>20841807
Those I've written myself based on my own fetishes and pretentious taste in literature.

read cradle

>>20841864
>Those I've written myself based on my own fetishes and pretentious taste in literature.
Based. Once, I saw someone saying '"Why would you write fiction and not include your own fetishes?" and it stuck with me. That's why I'm definitely planning to write a solid harem at some point, with raw emotion, incredibly titilating scenes, fascinating women and of course monster girls. The bar in the genre is so low it's not even funny, just by writing a woman as a person and not horny hole you're already in the upper echelons of writers.

But I know, KNOW that there are extremely amazing erotic stories written by our predecessors, people who were passionate about the craft and poured all of their talent into creating incredible stories. Who were they? What did they write? It's a fringe subject, thus a space like 4chan should be closer to finding it, yet people in this thread are disappointingly shy about sharing what they know.

Wake up, erotica bros, give me your recommendations.

>>20841913
>writing a woman as a person and not horny hole
I was going to mock you for this sentiment but then I remembered you were writing fiction.

>>20841802
Read it already, specifically the version that mostly copypasted dialogue from the game itself.

RIP queen of SFF

Why do trannys hate Brandon Sanderson?

Stormlight is so fucking anime.

>>20842021
It’s great. I didn’t go to sleep until 2am yesterday because I wanted to finish Oathbringer. I hope he doesn’t take too long with the fifth book.

Read The Voyage of the Space Beagle for Kellhusian protagonist.

>>20841917
>I was going to mock you for this sentiment but then I remembered you were writing fiction.
This is very important desu, fiction is written not only to explore interesting scenarions and ideas, but also for escapism into a better world. Reading books where women act like people, have their own lifes and goals...it's a calming, downright meditative experience. The contrast with the real world is of course titanic, but writing this way simply makes for better fiction, that's just a fact. Not every books needs to be Bakker-stuff where women act like in real life (I didn't read it, but schizos spam it enough for me to catch the general mood of that story).

>>20841913
>writing a woman as a person and not horny hole
What's the point? I don't care for women as persons, I only care for them as holes. I'd make only one exception to that general rule: It is desirable to build a female character up as a person, if the endgoal is to have her raped and enslaved and torn down. For the greatest payoff, there is no way around putting in the extra work. But nobody does that. Writers are far too prone to simp for their own female characters.

>>20842232
>I'd make only one exception to that general rule: It is desirable to build a female character up as a person, if the endgoal is to have her raped and enslaved and torn down.
...why, though? What's the point? Do you hate the idea of a woman as an individual? Do you consider it repulsive?

>>20842232
*Tips fedora*

>>20842284
fukken gottem 2011+ newfag

Which of the following threadly reminders are actually worth reading:
>Cradle
>Bakker
>Reverend Insanity

>>20842319
Bakker is better than the other two but if you don't like grimdark shit then don't bother.

>>20842319
I've only read Cradle, but I can say it's a well-made 'low-brow' sort of thing that knows it's not more than it is. It has solid, well-realised characters, a pretty fun world and the plot's a little shaky but it's mostly character-driven anyway.

>>20842021
Yup it is, really nothing like it when it comes to fight scenes (i guess Mistborn). Easy to see why it appeals to modern audiences.

I don't know how you anons keep reading more and more fantasy. I read a lot as a kid and recently read through Malazan Book of the Fallen, but I just feel no desire to read more. I'm much more inclined to reread what I've already read in my life. I was thinking of going to a book store because I haven't been to a real one in maybe a decade and the only thing I can think of getting is nicer copies of my fave books. For example, my LotR is really worn out. It would be nice to get a nice quality edition of that.

Just finished Urth of The New Sun, and doing a slow reread of tBotNS.
Can sffg rec me something light, easy to follow but thoroughly enjoyable to read next? Preferably a single book, medium length novel.

>>20842282
The point is to get my dick hard, of course, what else could it be, especially given you were talking about erotica. Why should I care about the individual hopes and dreams of a woman, unless there is some way for me to cum all over them? It's far more important whether the woman is fuckable and fertile than what her goal in life may be. But I'll reiterate: Her individual traits may be worth exploring if they lead to turning my dick into diamonds down the line. Establishing a female character as a complex individual, only to have her complexity amount to jack shit as she's forced into becoming an outwardly generic sex slave is one such way.

>>20842362
Solaris

Reminder to read Cradle.

>>20842539
I feel like the heights here are incredibly wrong. Isn't Lindon fucking huge and Yerin actually shorter than average? Every piece of fan-art seems to make Lindon just kinda average.

>>20842584
>Every piece of fan-art seems to make Lindon just kinda average.
Because they self-insert. It's funny how insecure people are. Meanwhile, Lindon is a huge, swole guy who looked, according to Yerin, first as a dangerous guy, then an 'evil sect leader's son', to finally transform into 'Evil sect leader himself' after achieving Overlord. He'd always been hot and Yerin has to change panties each time she looks at him.

>>20842362
No. Gather your strength because another journey is at hand. This time in 3rd person with easier prose. Just reread Shadow of the Torturer until you're past the 1st Valeria scene and you'll be ready to move on to the Long Sun series.

>>20842584
Yes, Lindon has the body of a gigachad and the mind of an autist. Something something average /fit/ poster joke here.

>>20841537
The Sword & Sorcery Anthology (2012)

The Tower of the Elephant - Robert E. Howard (1933)
I'm thoroughly unimpressed. What a disappointing showing. Conan in this story at least is quite the letdown. What an easily led fool he is. Its modern influence is evident though.
Blah

Black God’s Kiss - C. L. Moore (1934)
It begins by telling the reader what a mighty woman the protagonist is, the equal to most any man, but alas her foe is so much more than that. But none of that about her matters, because as the titles implies, this begins and ends with kissing.
Blah

The Unholy Grail - Fritz Leiber (1962)
There were bits of unintentional humor in this. For example the villain decries the uselessness of his daughter as compared to her mother who was so fierce that she may have even cuckolded him. A young Gray Mouser is the protagonist and not very fun to read about. There were a few interesting ideas, but little was done with them.
Meh

The Tale of Hauk - Poul Anderson (1977)
This was mostly a historical fiction story about Norsemen before it veered off into fantastical metaphor. The former was nice, the latter not so much. Hauk, the son, returns and must right the wrongs of his father, who was once hale and hearty, but now has grown vicious and callous in his illness.
Ok

The Caravan of Forgotten Dreams - Michael Moorcock (1962)
A horde from the east ravages the land and soon shall be where Elric resides. Once he again he must do what he is loathe. This wasn't the first Moorcock story I've finished, but it was the first Elric. Despite how silly this was, it also was somewhat fun. That was exemplified by Elric's beseeching of the God of Cats.
Ok

The Adventuress - Joanna Russ (1967)
A comedic misadventure of a female duo, who are 30 and 18. It would've been enjoyable if it weren't seemingly only a fragment, which upon looking, it is.
Ok

Gimmile’s Songs - Charles R. Saunders (1984)
A culturally African story with a black female protagonist. A quite interesting tale of swords, sorcery, and sex.
Enjoyable

Undertow - Karl Edward Wagner (1977)
An intriguing and amusing gothic horror story. A woman searches out men to have sex with and to take her away from Kane.
Enjoyable

The Stages of the God - Ramsey Campbell (1974)
A strange quasi-religious story of altered consciousness mythmaking.
Blah

The Barrow Troll - David Drake (1975)
The Norseman known as Womanslayer recounts a tale of a woman he killed who told him about a troll and his treasure and that only fire blessed by a priest could defeat it, so he kidnaps the a priest and takes him there to battle the troll.
Meh

Soldier of an Empire Unacquainted with Defeat - Glen Cook (1980)
One of the greatest soldiers of the most powerful empire is immersed in the drama of the farmland frontier of a foreign country.
Ok

Epistle from Lebanoi - Michael Shea (2012)
A man searching for spices becomes part of an apocalyptic battle caused by sexual infidelity.
Ok

>>20842718
Become a Warrior - Jane Yolen (1998)
A rather short, though impactful, story of a seven year old princess whose father is killed and kingdom is lost. A very engaging and murderous tale despite its length. The author has apparently written over 400 books.
Enjoyable

The Red Guild - Rachel Pollack (1985)
A young female assassin is contracted to kill a dragon, but it becomes so much more.
Enjoyable

Six from Atlantis - Gene Wolfe (2006)
A man seeking treasure challenges an ape who rules the land.
Blah

The Sea Troll’s Daughter - Caitlín R. Kiernan (2010)
A funny story that subverts the typical monster slaying tale.
Enjoyable

The Coral Heart - Jeffrey Ford (2009)
The man known as The Coral Heart has a sword that turns people into coral. As he wanders around with his tulpa, he meets the perfect woman. He proclaims he'll turn everyone in the world to coral if she won't have sex with him.
Meh

Path of the Dragon - George R. R. Martin (2000)
Daenerys chapters that were put together as promotional material before the release of A Storm of Swords.

The Year of the Three Monarchs - Michael Swanwick (2012)
A brief and silly story of betrayal, murder, and trickery.
Meh

>>20842718
>fritz leiber
>unintentional humor
Nope.

>>20842725
Either way really, it doesn't make that much of a difference to me.

>>20842584
>>20842654
>>20842703
Yes, see >>20841870

>>20842718
>A culturally African story with a black female protagonist.
oof

>>20841537
any good recent scifi with POC people and LGBTQIA+ themes?

>>20842816
no

>>20842828
well, it doesn't need to be recent then.

>>20842849
the answer is still no

>>20842775
Oh, right, I forgot to mention written by a black man as well.

>>20842853
;_;

>>20842886
that'd be a plus

>>20842718
>I'm thoroughly unimpressed. What a disappointing showing. Conan in this story at least is quite the letdown. What an easily led fool he is. Its modern influence is evident though.
kill yourself

>>20842895
Oh ok

>>20842900
Nah, you'll have to do it yourself. Why would I do something you want for you?

>>20842816
Try The Second Apocalypse series by famous queer author R. Scott Bakker. There is so much homosexuality and female empowerment as well as alternate sexualities you’ll surely like it. Especially the Consult and their POC friends the Scranc are wonderfully queer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8oLu7znwQ0

>hopepunk
I hope this catches on more. I'm tired of grimdark. We need something to escape; I already know how the world is.

>>20842970
Nobledark. That's called nobledark.

>>20842974
I know that's the term /tg/ use, normies are calling it "hopepunk".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopepunk

>>20842758
Not sure I'd be relying on that particular piece of fanart for an accurate character reference.

>>20842974
Noblebright, you faggot

>>20843049
Both Nobledark and Noblebright could be considered to fall under the retarded term "Hopepunk"

Posting my Bakker filter. It's still a work in progress but it may save some other anons a bit of time.

/^King of \/sffg\/\.\n\nSimple as\.$/
/Bakker/i
/Earwa/i
/Proyas/i
/Kellhus/i
/Eärwa/i
/Ciphrang/i
/^I am looking for a dark fantasy series with intense battles, pitch black lore, highly intellectual themes that dovetail into real world philosophy, poignant character psychology, and just a hint of Lovecraftian horror\. Is there anything out there like this\?$/i
/^I am looking for a dark fantasy series with intense rape, pitch black seed, highly intellectual themes \(cuckoldry\) that dovetail into real world fetishes, pungent anal sex, and just a hint of Lovecraftian futa\. Is there anything out there like this\?$/
/curved phallus/i
/truth shines/i
/sranc/i/dark with intense battles, pitch black lore/i
/B*kker/i
/sandersoi/i
/Great Ordeal/i
/white luck warrior/i
/unholy consult/i
/Prince of nothing/i
/Thousandfold Thought/i
/no-god/i
/Dunyain/i
/tekne/i
/poz/i

>>20843060
You can probably cut it mostly down to "supreme" and be done.

>>20843072
I only add something onc it gets past my current filter. Helps to prevent false positives. Almost completely without fail, "supreme" posters manage to trip the filter with other buzzwords, usually several at once.

>>20842816
Fuck off

>>20843060
Add 'Truth shines' and other bakker quotes
Also, kek at using * for the second letter of bakker

>>20843060
How does the filter work? An extension for chrome I need to install and paste it into the filter bar?

>>20843143
just a script you can use with tamplermonkey which also lets you easily filter things
https://www.4chan-x.net/

Any more Fantasy where it's the far future? . LIke WOT, shattered sea and prince of thorns?

>>20841964
I'll give her the benefit of the doubt for being a woman from a very different generation, which required her to show some merit to succeed in her day. So, what would recommend of her work? Did she write anything a male reader might enjoy?

>>20841545
That's really clever for a 9 year old.

is r scot b akers fantasy series /sffg/ approved?

>>20843299
The Book of the New Sun

>>20843392
I forgot to put that one. Any others?

Recommend me so funny fantasy books.
Im about to start the third book from the Gentleman bastards but the second ending was such a rushed mess I probably should give Lynch a rest

>>20843299
Utawarerumono, Scrapped Princess

>>20843739
>Recommend me so funny fantasy books.
Terry Pratchett discworld series.
And stop reading the third Gen. Bastards book, it retroactively makes the first one much worse. The second one was already a decline from the first, but the third is garbage. You will regret reading it.

How good was the rape in Lord Foul's Bane by Stephen R. Donaldson? Soys on Royalroad are making it sound pretty based.

>>20843748
So is the third even worse? No wonder he stopped writing since then.
Already read all from Terry

>>20843779
Idk then, maybe Vainquair the Dragon

>twi 7.22 D
damn i didn't think her story would take that kind of turn. it's pretty creepy. i liked okasha though and i hope they make up.

on another note, the connecting with invrisil was very well done. i'm also pretty invested in maviola now.

>>20843771
I remember it being a paragraph and their being some weird line about his dick feeling like it was made of fire or something. Whole book sucks because it's just the main character whining as he's dragged around until suddenly they win because they won.

There's better rape out there.

>>20843814
I've never liked this developement with Okasha. In a vacuum it's not a bad plotline, but taking into account Okasha was saved by Geneva and literally swore an oath to help Geneva as she had given Okasha a second chance to life...Meh. Going from that to literally enslaving someone in just few months? Not buying that.

What did you think about 7.16? My boi Klbkch deserves better. He's literally the toughest and most tragic motherfucker on the continent. And no one even gets it. The best ant. The only guy mad enough to decide to kill a God.

>>20844068
>Klbkch deserves better
eh, he does, but then again he did react in a very extreme way. i AM glad the thing with anand calling him father is over with for now lol.

>Okasha
it does make sense if you think about how she's been treated, or rather, how geneva was treating herself. that being said, she was very clearly starting to cross some important lines. but i want to think that she did still have geneva's interest at heart. i really hope she comes back but don't tell me lol.

>Beak' scene in reaper's gale

Bros...

>>20843814
>>20844129
I never liked the thing with the ants calling Klbkch father. Like, it didn't have to be bad, but them forcing it on Klb? That was pretty cringe. Especially because in Klbkch's mind they are barely even the same species. More like humans and chimps.

Oh, and how did you look the recent scenes with Ryoka and Teriarch? Iconic chapters, absolute classics. Seriously, Early-Middle Volume 7 is something of a golden age of TWI.

>>20844152
>In a 2021 interview, author Steven Erikson confirmed that "Beak probably destroyed his home, his estate, and his parents and probably his tutors and everyone else who was there. He...simply wiped them off the face of the earth."[29]
hell yeah
beak was a cool dude, shame about what made him him

>>20844175
>Oh, and how did you look the recent scenes with Ryoka and Teriarch? Iconic chapters, absolute classics. Seriously, Early-Middle Volume 7 is something of a golden age of TWI.
uhhh i think that is coming up. i only know that ryouka snagged a bunch of electronics from that one group and there's pretty much only one place to go with that.

>>20843771
Pretty low key. IIRC he gets carried away at a magical spring festival. For a more sustained rapey vibe from Donaldson try the Gap series. But the first two Covenant series are both worth reading.

>>20844213
Ahh, sorry for the slight spoiler bro, I always mistake the chapters. There's just so many of them

>>20844276
no worries

>>20844276
It's okay. Only you and TWIshill (assuming you're not the same person) read this.

>>20844295
>Only you and TWIshill (assuming you're not the same person) read this.
I'm everyone in this chapter. Including you.

>>20842718
>>20842724
Way too obvious.

>>20841537
Notice how there are never any roaming groups of black people in these pics? Even though there absolutely would be if a post-apoc situation ever happened. It's always just white people which makes it seem alright and comfy.

>>20844389
I appreciate your response.

any fantasy/sci-fi where the main protagonist tries damn every living thing to an eternity of objective suffering for no particular reason other than that it’s possible?

>>20844569

>>20844503
Not a single black person could nail 2 pieces of wood together, even in a haphazard fashion with a whole bucket of nails and a brand new claw hammer to form a right angle.
They couldn't build or plant anything in the post apocalypse and would all die.

>>20844611
They were pretty good carpenters under slavery, desu.

Any books that don't have a happy ending?

>>20844670
I never get to by the first to say it.
My diary, desu.

>>20844679
*be

I'm gonna start reading a mil/sci-fi series simply because a reviewer on Amazon was so triggered by the first novel they randomly brought up Orange Man Bad in their review. Also another reviewer was triggered by its apparent Pro-Americanism so that's a bonus.

>>20844744
What's the book?

>>20843771
man, I read the first three books and they were shit. Why are these on the recommended lists?

Ok I've decided to go on a fantasy marathon. Shortlisted 3 books, which one should I start with.

Asoiaf
Name of the wind rothfuss
First law trilogy

>>20842584
>>20842654
>>20842703
>>20842758
Guys, sometimes you're composing your art, you just average out the scale of both characters because you want a clear view of both. Or while you're drawing. It's just more comfortable to draw at a standard scale, and not have to worry about who is larger than who.

You see this in promotional art all the time. Small characters are made large, and large characters are made small, all so the most prominent characters can stand at equal levels. And the the lesser characters are scaled down. I wouldn't be surprised if the artist drew these two on separate canvases, and then simply dragged them together.

And before someone says something stupid. No I'm not the artist of the pic. I'm an artist though, so I think about these kinds of things. I've wanted to draw the characters myself, but I'm afraid of getting their attire wrong. I never quite understood how they dress in that world. They call their attire sacred robes. But what does that mean exactly? What do they wear under the robes? How are the robes cut? What is their length? I wish I had some kind of fashion guide.

>>20844879
Why do you hate yourself so much? First Law is the best of the set.

>>20844814

>>20844888
Hate myself for reading fantasy or my selection?

>>20844879
Stop reading series that will never be finished.

>>20844926
I don't mind that if the work is good. I chose these 3 because they were ranked top 3 on a fantasy books website.

>>20844879

>>20844879
>Name of the wind rothfuss
>You may get to fuck her in the ass and cum all over her face, but I get to clean her up afterwards. My light shining in her.

>>20844938
The first three ASOIAF books are good, in the following two (which are really supposed to be one book split in half, with half the characters covered in one, and the other half in the other) are where he let the story grow out of his control and it's now reached a point that it's not possible to bring it all back together, which is why there will likely never be a book 6, which even if it were published, would still not be enough to finish the series. There would have to be other books after that, so it will never happen. If you want to get invested in some shit like this, that's your prerogative.

>>20844879
>>20844938
Honestly, the problem with ASOIAF, is not that it's unfinished per se. It's that nothing else is quite as good as it. So you end up chasing the feeling you got from it, only to find that nothing else is as satisfying. And so what it means to be unfinished really starts to sink in. That you will never ever feel that high again.

Start with Wheel of Time.

>>20844886
Yeah, Cradle's actually fairly lax on descriptions. You get a good general idea of faces and hair and builds, but outfits are very sparsely-detailed.

>>20844926
I don't mind that if the work is good. I chose these 3 because they were ranked top 3 on a fantasy books website.

>>20844569
The Second Apocalypse by Richard Scott Bakker.

>>20845000
>but outfits are very sparsely-detailed.
Only if you're not the Adonis that is Eithan.

>>20844967
>It's that nothing else is quite as good as it

>>20844944
The fact that this is not a parody is harrowing to the core. I don't even blane christians for burning people at stakes anymore.

But these relationships are not canon in the books...... right?
>>20844962
>You may get to fuck her in the ass and cum all over her face, but I get to clean her up afterwards. My light shining in her.

This happens in the book?

>>20844967
Ngl, the reason I started reading fantasy in the first place is cuz I loved the show>>20844967

The Running Man, by Stephen King >>>>>>> (stretches to infinity) >>>>>>> a great deal of genre fiction, including the three Philip K. Dick novels I have read.

>>20845103
Lol why are the tagged comments deleted? Is one of the jannies a rothfussfag or just a tranny in general?

>>20845233
The funny thing about the deletion, is that the guy who posted the comic didn't even offer an opinion one way or the other. He simply allowed the comic to speak for itself. It was relevant to the other anon's question, and it features a word from the author of the book itself. As it was a legitimate collaboration between him and the comic's authors. https://www.newsweek.com/kingkiller-chronicle-characters-patrick-rothfuss-kvothe-bast-devi-sex-1265753

>>20844744
It’s your book, isn’t it?

>>20845233
because the tranny mods are subhuman

>>20845103
>This happens in the book?
Yes.

>>20845271
Yes, anon. It's my book. Which is why I didn't even name the book until I was asked.

>>20845256
I just googled the comic author. God there is no depth to how much modernity disgusts me. Maybe I could seperate the art from the artist if he hasn't added any of that filth in his books

>it's a janny deletes half the thread for no reason episode
How tiresome.

>>20844744
I think that describes damn near every military sci-fi series.

This image may as well be a Threadly Reminder.

>>20844744
That really doesn't narrow it down so uh
Good for you for having a bunch of reading material, I suppose.

>>20845318
Ok yeah I'm dropping this trash forever.

My new 3 :
Asoiaf
First law
Lotr

Where do I start

>>20845342
Hahahahahaah holy damn cuckoldy.

Plz tell me that the text is mocking whoever this simp is

>>20842319
Haven't read Cradle. But Bakker is definitely worth it.
RI is a total mess honestly. I have skimmed a bit of it, and it was more an odd curiosity than an actual worthwhile read.

>>20842362
Anderson's The Broken Sword.

>>20842319
>>20845378
Bakker and RI is both worth it, those who posses the power to understand Bakker also posses the power to understand RI.

>>20843299
The Dying Earth is exactly what you want.

>>20845346
I told you: Wheel of Time.
But if you're going to be stubborn about it, then go with ASOIAF. You might as well suffer like the rest of us waiting for Winds of Winter.

Fantasy/Sci-fi with deep relationship (friendship or romance) something like Frodo and sam.

>>20845382
It's not worth understanding.

>>20845435
It is worth understanding, those who understand RI agree.

>>20841537
What are people’s thoughts on Ligotti?

>>20845419
Realm of the Elderlings

>>20845417
I don't think I'll ever read wheel of time. Its long af. I've heard it gets tedious in the later books with descriptions. And it has that high fantasy children's book feel to me. I'd prefer something more... nuanced.

>>20845441
how do you know you understand it and don't just have some kind of illusion of understanding it?

>>20845460
>I'd prefer something more... nuanced.
Well then you definitely don't want to read The First Law. It's all about a bunch of assholes fighting. And sure, they wrap it in political intrigue. But when you really get down to it, it's just a bunch of fucking cunts trying to slit each other's throats. Hell, Wheel of Time has more nuance than The First Law.

But yeah, go with ASOIAF. Even if you watched the show already, you're going to like it for all of it's differences.

The Accursed King series

>potrays King Edward II as a fag.
>Is sympathetic to Isabella as a wife who couldn't get some and fell for mr. Chad

But there's no real proof that edward 2 was gay. Thus Isabella's betrayal is far less sympathetic. This sounds pozzed af. Not sure if I should continue

Reading this story. Why does every western-cultivation story have to create its own System wholecloth? Also, why does modern fantasy write everything like this:

>He took out the Ammo from his belt and slid it into his Rifle. He pulled the lever back and felt the heart of the beast thrum with power. He channeled his intent and Triggered the gun, shooting out Bullets one after another at thunderous speed. He roared, and the gun roared too as each Impacted his target with the force of ten thousand blood realm Cheesewiddles.

>>20844944
It's funny how I'm not reading that many words.
I read for fun. I read the internet all day long, but I look at that and go, "I'm not fucking reading that."
I wish this phenomenon was explored more.

>>20845417
Read LOTR then Wheel of time. After that you do whatever you want.

>>20845356
Imagine writing hundreds of pages before that part.
He 100% deluded himself into thinking that was something meaningful and not just full on cuckoldry dressed up as best as he could, which wasn't nearly good enough because someone had the time to thumb through the book and take a picture of it and post it to be mocked forever.

>>20843060
>>20843136
It should be /B.kker/i if you want to match any second letter. B*kker will only match any number of Bs (kker, Bkker, BBkker...)

>>20843143
4chanX

>>20845453
Truly the most romance and bromance iv ever read in a fantasy series

>>20845476
Which story in particular are you lambasting here, anon? I think I might have an idea but I'd rather not guess.

>>20845441
I don't care what chinkshills say

>>20845453
Thanks

>>20845516
Sorry I missed the image somehow

TWI 6.34ish

>The gold glinted in the fading light.
>“Want it?”
>The Drake hesitated. He looked around the room, warring with himself. But the gold was gold. And Drakes were the children of Dragons.
>“Yes. Why? Is it a bribe? A gift? Proof you’re a person?”
>His expression said he might say anything to have it, and to be out of the spotlight. Pyrite just grinned a Goblin’s grin.
>“Nothing. It’s yours. If you pick it up.”
>He tossed the nugget on the floor. It was a decent toss; the nugget rolled a bit, but it was so heavy it actually dented the floorboards. Keldrass started. He looked at Pyrite and then around. Everyone watched him. The Drake considered how much it would cost his image to bend over and pick up the nugget. Then he stiffly walked over. Pyrite waited until the Drake was moving. And then, as Keldrass bent, he spoke one word.
>“Fetch.”
>The Drake—froze. And so did the room. Slowly, Keldrass turned. His face was flushed under his scales. He glared at Pyrite, but with a hint of triumph.
>“Never.”
>The Hobgoblin eyed him silently, then he smiled and shrugged. He looked around the room.
>“It’s just gold. Worthless to a Goblin. But anyone who wants it may fetch.”

This miniarc has been pretty good. Hope it finally leads to some decent attitude changes towards the goblins, same with whatever Laken is up to by capturing those prisoners.

>>20845530
oh thank god it's not mine

>>20845538
holy shit, we get it, you wrote a shitty fucking western-cultivation, stop trying to advertise it here, its fucking annoying.

>>20845542
>don't mention literally anything about my fic
>REEEE MEERKATTING MEERKATTING REEEEEE
sneed

>>20844152
That was some Once Upon A Time In The West level shit. Highly recommend the movie anons.

>>20845460
It's my sincere opinion that WoT isn't worth reading. It's drawn out to a ridiculous degree and isn't even finished by the original author. There are at least three books that could outright be skipped and you would miss nothing. Back in the day we all thought the series would be wrapped up by book five. Then we all joked about how Robert Jordan would die before the series was completed. He was George R.R. Martin before there was a George.

>>20845594
While this is true, it's excusable on the basis that those books were literally dictated to an assistant from his deathbed, and therefore didn't get a full editing pass. GRRM has no such excuse.

>>20845594
Wheel of Time has like 7 or 8 good books before it turns into a slog. I think that's worth reading.

What the fuck is a LitRPG??

>>20845780
As of yet the Lowest form of literature to be discussed on this board. You thought you couldn't get worse than regular genre fiction? Well, you thought wrong.

>>20845789
I look forward to the next decade to see what further decadence brings us.
How can you entertain even SHORTER attention spans? It will be fun to watch.

The whole neo-occult thing in '90s Britain really turned out some cool fucking novels

Anyone read this?
Space opera by the guy who wrote The Red Knight

https://www.goodreads.com/series/344870-arcana-imperii

what are some fantasy stories that give the reader the same kind of adventure as when reading the epics?

>>20845972
I Shall Seal The Heavens of course

>>20845795
>shorter attention spans
I'm not so sure about that. These fuckers keep reading hundreds of thousands words of this drivel. It's more a combination of chronic lack of life and taste.

>>20846052
But number go up.
I assure you we can cater to lower and lower denominators.
It took until 2021 to create Vampire Survivors. You really CAN give the player everything they want and they'll still have fun slaughtering thousands of enemies. You don't have to jump through hoops of deep and complicated systems, backstory, sidequests, and secret endings.
All the ancient arcade games of the past with their flashing lights, bells, whistles, explosions, and points wish they had a tenth of what Vampire Survivors captured. We had a glimpse in the 90's with Super Smash TV, but that was it. Just make sure number goes up.

Started Malazan (Gardens of the Moon). So far it reads Black Company, but less interesting and more pretentious.

Where does kino begin?

>>20846113
The real kino is the malazans you met along the way

>>20842994
weaponised optimism, or
microaesthetics with marketing ambitions?

>>20842970
>>20842994
maybe this will help

>>20842994
This has a wikipedia article but they'll delete all of a nazi's war medals and stories because it "can't be verified" and then delete the article because then it's just a name.

I posted this in the thread earlier and janny deleted it (why might that be?) so I'm going to post it again.

>>20846113
When the sunk cost fallacy kicks in at around the book three. Just keep going.

>>20842319
Bakker is genuinely very good, but also very memeworthy, which is why it's constantly posted about.
Haven't read the other two.

>>20842357
Have you tried reading stuff outside of fantasy/sci-fi instead? Only reading fantasy is kind of what someone does when they first get into reading if their first book happens to be a fantasy novel. It's a bit weird to only read fantasy forever though.

>>20843299
Richard Morgan's A Land Fit For Heroes (not sure if it's Earth exactly, but it's set in the far future of his Altered Carbon series)

>>20844879
First Law first, then ASOIAF. Don't bother with NOTW.

>>20845346
probably LOTR first since it's LOTR (and First Law and to a lesser extent ASOIAF are all about subverting LOTR-type fantasy).
ignore the WOT recommendations, it's mediocre.

>>20846313
At the start, I thought Bakker was a meme, but in the end, he was genuinely supreme.

R Scott Bakker is 80% Chinese
You have all been assimilated by Xi Jinping thought without even being aware of it

Basically the Sorweel, White-Luck, Esmenet/Assassin, Nonman and Kellhus Great Ordeal stories are all driven by concepts taken from Chinese history or philosophy.

Only perhaps Achamian, inheritor of Greek tradition, in his Western Kierkegaarde Fear and Trembling / teleological suspension of the ethical mode on his Mines Of Moria travel adventure, remains relatively uninfluenced.

1/ The Great Ordeal to Golgotterath is the Long March
>The Lords of the Ordeal raised greasy bowls in slicked fingers to toast their Exalt-General in the Umbilicus that night. “Steersman,” they called him, a blessed name, for despite the grievous toll, despite the losses of countrymen, even friends, it seemed a miraculous thing to deliver souls so numerous and unruly across the honed edge of the Sursa.
>Steersman, alternatively: Helmsman
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Helmsman
Great Helmsman (Chinese: 大舵手; pinyin: Dà Duòshǒu) is a Chinese honorific title. It most commonly refers to Mao Zedong (1893–1976), Chairman of the Chinese Communist Party and paramount leader of China from 1949 to 1976. It may also refer to:
Xi Jinping (born 1953), General Secretary of the Chinese Communist Party (paramount leader) since 2012
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_March

2/ Nonman, 非人
https://ctext.org/zhuangzi?searchu=%E9%9D%9E%E4%BA%BA
There are a lot of ways of translating 非人 (that link does not show it).

是非 Shi-Fei in Chinese debate was a dialectical tool, it translates roughly as this/not-that, it corresponds to the deictic indexicals of Western linguistics and philosophy. So in some contexts maybe a more philosophically accurate rendition would be Negated Man (as in defeated in argument). This makes sense if you see Nonmen as Greek Philosophers who have been defeated, abandoned and forgotten by the modern world.

The term recurs many times in various contexts, but here is the Burton Watson 2013 Columbia Press Edition of Zhuangzi:

其知情信,其德甚真,而未始入於非人。」
His understanding was truly trustworthy; his virtue was perfectly true. He never entered [the realm of] ‘Non-man.’”
(from the section, Fit For Emperors and Kings)
Instead, Kellhus entered... Proyas.

Incidentally, many of the other Bakker sorceries come from philosophy. The Chorae are described as formed from the forbidden Aporetic School; aporia literally means doubt. Doubt (of their ability?) kills sorcerors.

>>20846506
3/ Unerring Grace, White Luck Warrior, Narindar etc
The idea of a being whose actions align perfectly with the will of the world, thus seeing no impediment or obstruction to their actions, is a fundamental precept of Chinese Daoism.

>Unerring Grace—The capacity to act and desire in perfect coincidence with one’s Fate, attributed especially to the Narindar. See Narindar.

>(...) For some Narindar—such as the Yatwerian “White-Luck Warrior”—the Unerring Grace is absolute, and the assassin acts in utter accord with what has already happened. For others, the Grace resolves and fades much as inspiration.

Here is Zhuangzi again

而欲為人之國者,此攬乎三王之利,而不見其患者也。此以人之國僥倖也,幾何僥倖而不喪人之國乎!

When they wish again to administer a state for its ruler, they proceed to employ all the methods which the kings of the three dynasties considered profitable without seeing the evils of such a course. This is to make the state depend on the peradventure of their luck. But how seldom it is that that peradventure does not issue in the ruin of the state!

>just now finding out the author of the series I've been reading over the past few weeks has sold over 200 short stories
gotdamn

>>20846119
>>20846299
Is it unironically bad? I don't mind dropping it if that's the case.

>>20846506
>>20846508
Maybe you used to look at all those Chinese propaganda slogans on buildings or /pol and think they were pretty crude. But now amzn with their AmaZen (kek) workforce wellness slogans are sort of the same?

In ancient societies emperors liked buddhism, because the fundamental idea was to embrace suffering, accept your life could never change and hope for reincarnation. I wonder if that is why nonsense Asian wellbeing stuff like
>>20846180
>>20846181
and Hopepunk kek
>>20842970
>>20842994
>>20843054
Are being promulgated throughout our society. To defeat China you must... become China?

Hold fast anons, embrace tragedy, embrace the grimdark. It is the truth of the world.

>>20846324
is it written like AC or Thin Air, fantasy edition?
might pick it up if so

I've been trying to find books based on the Ctgulhu mythos. Not just the classics from Lovecrafts circle. I don't know how to find them. Is there some hidden key terms I can google or something?

>>20846535
Not at all. I wasn't memeing when I said it's the malazans you met along the way. It's a really good story.

Mythago Wood: yay or nay?

>>20845531
Vol 6 has great mini arcs and solo chapters. Interlude - Embria particularly.
You seem to somewhat fall behind anon, the toher bro is already past the early V7. At the moment you are what, half-way through the story? Something like that.

Is there such thing as Hard fantasy? If so, wtf is it?

>>20846633
Has potential for yay, I will check it out

Just read the first chapter of Reverend Insanity. This is fucking Engrish-tier ESL bullshit. What the fuck is wrong with you people? This is like bad Dragon Ball Z fan-fiction.

>>20846660
You don't have the power to understand Fang Yuan.

>>20846660
It gets better you dumb mongrel

>>20846547
Try searching for "Cthulhu mythos writers." Anyway, a few books off the top of my head

Tales of Cthulhu Mythos
Tales of the Lovecraft Mythos
The New Lovecraft Circle
Black Wings of Cthulhu (series of anthologies)

I wonder if Amazon managed to get their hands on this during the script development stage.

anyone read these?

>>20846791
Good, Amazon has complete reign over middle earth to make the "good guys" a group of clowns, now Sauron will be supreme and he will decimate the manlet hobbits and their allies.

The good guys in the show will be sjw while the bad guys will be supreme, which is a good thing.

>>20842970
>>20842994
>>20846180
>>20846181
Invent new fantasy genres. Hopepunk is meaningless as to be a punk is to embody the delinquent spirit of rebellion. You can be a cyberpunk jacking into consensus reality and subverting it whilst hallucinating on sensestims. Being a hopepunk and reciting fulfilment by amazon wellbeing mantras is just being enslaved, or:

>COPEPUNK
>Mindjunk
>Hopesunk

Grimdark is now a bit cliched. Also, it does not convey the intense horror violence. So how about genres like,

>NORMGORE it is normcore, but the entrails fell out. /gif has some real world examples that can inspire this literature
>WARSYNTH since ww2 no wars have happened except when people stream call of duty on twitch. To suggest otherwise is fictional. Alternatively
>WARWAVE you should imagine this like seapunk, except there is an aircraft carrier with 90,000 tonnes of diplomacy on it. Not to be confused with WHOREWAVE, also known as
>TRANSTITUTE FUTURISM it is a surprisingly corporate aesthetic, though a bit soulless, as if something has been removed
>COPEGOTH NOUVEAU it is what happens after reading hopepunk to your cadaverous soul, which rots and walks, but will not die.

https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Aesthetics

I finally finished Oathbringer.
Should I just jump into Rhythm of War right away or go read other cosmere books first?
From what I heard, this might be like jumping into Avenger or something.

>>20846841
Amazon rules supreme, whether you like it or not.

>>20846791
Who is Brian Sibley. Why is Winnie the Pooh writing Lord Of The Rings

>>20841537
What are some weird poets and weird fiction writers that everyone should know about? The tradition is still evolving and there are many presses/magazines dedicated to it. But don’t these writers of the weird need a foundation in the Weird that came before?

>>20846889
>Brian Sibley
>Brian David Sibley (born 14 July 1949) is an English writer. He is author of over 100 hours of radio drama and has written and presented hundreds of radio documentaries, features and weekly programmes. He is widely known as the author of many film "making of" books, including those for the Harry Potter series and The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit trilogies.

>>20846915
I grovel on the ground and lick the dirt and offer my flesh to be trampled under the great feet of Brian Sibley.

>>20846642
Yeah, I haven't been reading as much lately, bit of burnout plus I've been having less free time to read overall, while the other anon has been just steamrolling through the story

>>20846841
>Grimdark is now a bit cliched.
It's so cliched that when I ask this general for Grimdark recommendations no one can give me anything than Reverend Insanity. It almost feels like no one knows any grimdark books.
Except Bakker of course, but that's a given.

>>20847046
Grimdark is cliched, but still niche regardless. Turns out it just doesn't appeal to most people. Hollywood figured it out a hundred years ago, hence the unbroken dominance of the Happy End for most stories aimed at the masses.

IT IS THE 21st millennium. For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor has sat on the Golden Peloton of Earth. He/him/his is the instructor of mankind by the will of social workers, and master of a million NGOs by the might of his inexhaustible charity. He is a health conscious gender-inclusive activist passionately calling for change using his influence against the Dark Age of Technology. He is the vegan host of dietary protein for whom a thousand followers are added every day, so that he may hope the environmental impact of meat production will someday truly die.

YET EVEN IN his state of wellbeing, the Emperor continues his eternal mindfulness. Vigorous election campaigns criss-cross the red-blue state divide, the only route between distant celebrity endorsements, their way lit by K-Street, the psychic manifestation of the Emperor's mental health meditation regimen. Small groups of democracy activists and dissidents fight for freedom on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst his followers are the Non-Governmental Organisations, the nonprofit entities, socially-engineered humanitarians. Their comrades in arms are legion: the civil society organisations and countless human rights defense forces, the ever-vigilant centres for empowerment, social justice and the technology of Silicon Valley to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat to national security from illegal aliens, terrorists, Russia, China, 4chan – and worse.

TO BE AN incel in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Remember the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Remember the promise of progress and understanding, for in a hopeful future there is only cope. There is no peace upon the internet, only the autism of pornography and gore, and the laughter of thirsting men.

>>20846705
>black wings of cthulhu
I read Black Wings of Cthulhu 2 a few weeks ago. Some of the stories were good, but they always managed to fall down at the last hurdle as it were.

>>20846895
I prefer the term speculative fiction to weird fiction. Speculative fiction can accommodate anything from fantasy, sci-fi, Cthulhu, Conan, sword and planet, those weird surreal 1930s novels like Voyage To Arcturus (do not read this, it is not worth it). A writer I would recommend would be JG Ballard. Like Mervyn Peake of Gormenghast he was born in China I believe, clearly that did something to his imagination lol. In Italy Italo Calvino is known for some literary fantasy though some of his work may be lost in translation. Jorge Luis Borges is also a literary speculative fiction writer.

To me speculative fiction is distinguished by its conceptual virtuosity, ie it imagines ideas that have not been imagined before, as opposed to telling a thriller or action adventure story with robots or spaceships or castles or dragons. China Mieville is often cited too as part of the new weird, his concepts are interesting eg The City And The City, but his writing style is rather affected and not worth the literary merit that has followed most acclaim heaped upon him in my opinion. Mieville is worth reading... only for a wikipedia summary of his books.

Can someone recommend me some fantasy novels with glossaries at the end, like Tad Williams stuff and Bakker (have read all of those). I just want fantasy novels that end with a massive glossary of make-believe people, realms, languages, relics and weapons and magic. I think if a fantasy novel sequence ends with a glossary, it means the author has actually put some thought into worldbuilding.

>>20847205
Worldbuilding is a meme. The world exists to serve the story.

>>20847205
It doesn't. The only author who actually did all the work is Tolkien, and in LotR it's in the background and serves to support the story as it should. Go read a DnD manual.

GRRM in recent interview
"Oddly enough, although I hate having COVID here, the two years of enforced isolation enabled me to get a lot more writing done, because I was doing a lot less traveling and public appearances and speeches and all of that stuff,” the 73-year-old said. “I’m making progress, but I’ve given up on any hope of predicting the end. Every time I do, I don’t make it and everybody gets mad at me, and there’s no sense. It’ll be done when it’s done. Hopefully, COVID won’t kill me, so we won’t have that issue. I do find it a little grisly, people speculating online about what’s going to happen to the rest of the books when I die. I don’t like to speculate about that. I don't feel close to dying."

>>20847215
this

>>20845531
>>“Fetch.”
always love it when gobbos get small wins like this.

>>20846541
Haven't read Thin Air. Of the three main characters, one is gay and another is bi, just a warning in case that's off-putting to you. It's very edgy like Altered Carbon. There are vague links to the Kovacs trilogy, you should read all three Kovacs books first, I won't say more than that.

>>20846816
I haven't yet but I was recommended them and they are on my list

>>20847205
Wheel of Time has a glossary at the end of every installment. Jordan's worldbuilding is none too impressive regardless.

>>20847315
Are the Seanchan just bdsm irish japanese mime artists

>>20842724
Was adding books when I read this on goodreads so looked up Pollack to see if it was worth grabbing something only to realize that I had, literally seconds ago, downloaded a "non-fiction" book by her lol
Weird coincidence

>>20845419
elfquest

>>20847396
Thanks, I didn't expect a comic book recommendation but I'm interested in that.

>>20847229
Some lore like the artbooks by Zak Smith, Frostbitten and Mutilated, A Red And Pleasant Land etc, and Patrick Stuart Veins of the Earth, are written akin to literary works. Patrick Stuart especially has some flashes of literary greatness, like his descriptions of twelve different kinds of darkness:

>2 STIPPLEDARK
A precise darkness, signalling its
exactness by drawn degrees. Its fingers leave a kind of embroidered arabesque over the surfaces it strokes. Rational, slightly headachy darkness, not given to dreams or visions. Unimpressed by magic,
fading only as it must, and when, before the spell. Favoured by small things as it knows them. It picks out the image and the detail like a blade.

>6 TERPSIFULGIN
It has beauty but it brings the end of things. It makes everything an elegy to itself. A mortal dark, or a darkness not indifferent to mortality. It marks breaks in the slow cycles of time and is still. Though it makes everything beautiful and brings any aesthetic quality to a fine pitch, exposing
the rightness in things, it does not show you more than any other kind. It will fill the path. It is a passing dark.

>10 SCARDARK
Explosive dark, rippling out and hurrying away. Arriving unexpectedly but rhythmically, and to some plan, hidden from you. It wheels in circles and shoots rapidly from place to place, running madly in self-set vectors. It wants attention and attracts it, happy when you are looking at it and into it. Its movements are seductive and
seem lively and lifelike. It wants to burn you and see you burn.

I recognised the title of Veins Of The Earth from Shakespeare -

PROSPERO: Dost thou forget
From what a torment I did free thee?

ARIEL: No.

PROSPERO: Thou dost, and think'st it much to tread the ooze
Of the salt deep,
To run upon the sharp wind of the north,
To do me business in the veins o' the earth
When it is baked with frost.

>>20847257
neat, thanks anon. and yeah I've read all Morgan scifi except Market Forces.
I'll check it out next time I get a fantasy kick

Fate/Stay Night has more layers to it than most fantasy books I've read. Most of the symbolism makes me horny from how well it's integrated.

>>20847368
Nice.

So how about Janny Wurts and The Wars of Light and Shadow?

>>20847438
Almost all of that is creating meaning where none was intended. Because it's so empty you're able to construct elaborate fantasies.

>>20847355
Yes, actually.

>>20847451
>Almost all of that is creating meaning where none was intended.
I dunno man. Saber training Shirou in body, Rin training his mind and Archer saying something that speaks to his spirit 3 times in a row seemed pretty damn intentional. And all the routes he has a specific sword obsession where the sword symbolizes his current relationship and balance of morality seemed pretty intentional too. Maybe you're biased?

>>20847115
>Golden Peloton of Earth
Got me there, whole thing was great

>>20847460
Oh, I was mistaken. We have a very different definition, let alone standard, of symbolism. Carry on.

Has anyone read any Alien or Predator books? I'm thinking of buying some.

>>20847492
The old comics were dope but no clue about books

>>20846506
>You have all been assimilated by Xi Jinping thought without even being aware of it
I said Bakker was chinkshit the very first time I saw his garbage

>>20847483
Do 40k novels still open with this introduction? From a literary and classical rhetoric perspective it is amazingly well written (did Abnett write this? Though I have seen it in Horus Heresy novels not written by Abnett). Also what amused me was how little some stuff could be changed - aliens to illegal aliens etc lol

>>20847670
If you had to choose between Chinese Bakker,
>>20846506
>>20846508
and Vegan Copepunk Emperor Of The 21st Imperium Of Man,
>>20847115
>>20842970
>>20842994
which would you choose, and why?

>>20847725
>which would you choose, and why?
I choose Bakker, because he rules supreme.

>>20847725
is there actually any sex in any WH40k novel. As in, the act of copulation. For example Eisenhorn meets up with his old lady friend the doctor lady, they reminisce a bit on the snowy Oriental Express train thing but no sex occurs. I think Eisenhorn also sees his female accomplices naked a few times. But does any coitus occur in the grim darkness of the 41st millenium? Does any wh40k novel depict it???

>>20847864
The one most likely to have that is Draco, the Inquisitor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwKC5fxhIZo

>>20847864
how did Slaanesh defeat the eldar if no sex ever occurs in wh40k, it is a mystery

I have read all the Abnett novels, I only enjoy Abnett 40k. I tried reading the others, they are all terrible. Maybe that short story (it is called something like the Last Church something something) was ok, but still it is not Abnett. Gaunt's Ghosts, Eisenhorn Ravenor Bequin, and the Space Wolves and Alpha Legion Abnett novels, all are amazing. All other 40k novels fail to compare in my opinion.

>>20847059
>Attack on Titan, Devilman Crybaby two of the most popular anime
>Watchmen, and all the comics it influenced, one of the most popular comics
>Many popular books like The Fault in Our Stars, Bridge to Terabithia that end with the death of the main character's friend/lover
>The Titanic, The Mist, everyone dies
>GoT, everyone praises the drama of killing off good characters
????

>>20847864
do you think Abnett invented that null psyker thing just to make Eisenhorn involuntary celibate. ooohh no, cannot touch this naked woman, she is a null psyker, a psychic blank! Incel warp magic!

I remember how this general used to be all about Wolfe and Bakker, but now it's Bakker and that new Chinese author with a bug cover.

>>20847934
>anime, comics and movies, then mentions of books that have a single saw event
Please tell me you are trolling, a man cannot be divorced from reality

Favourite van Vogt? I'm a Ptath man.

>>20847934
Almost none of that is grimdark, not even GoT. Grimdark goes further than some people dying and sad endings. Grimdark operates fundamentally from a premise of hopelessness and futility. Those fighting for Good not only lose, they never really had a chance in the first place, if anyone fighting for Good even still exists in the world at all.

>>20847934
>manga example of grimdark
>not Berserk
>fucking snk
SnKfags are a continual blight.

>>20847986
shut up retard

>>20847998
I accept your concession

>>20848003
not even the anon you were responding to, your posts are shit and nobody cares

>>20847986
Then WH40K, where "grimdark" comes from, is literally the most popular miniature wargame in the world with tons of popular video games. There's also Breaking Bad, the most acclaimed TV show, and many popular zombie media where everyone dies.
>>20847997
I don't know what snk is.

>>20848091
>Breaking Bad
>A neo-western crime drama is somehow grimdark
Holy shit, you’re a retard. Stop talking. It’s obvious you don’t know shit.

>>20847059
>hollywood figured it out
Because the absolute majority are coomers, grimdark make them feel bad and not coom

>>20847934
>Bridge to Terabithia
>Titanic
>grimdark
AHAHAHAHAHAHAH
retarded zoomers literally think a book where characters die at the end is "grimdark" fucking hell you are stupid

>>20848132
Point to where I said it was grimdark.

Westworld's probable series finale was very grim. It was almost like a prequel to Greg Egan's Diaspora.

I wonder if Bridge to Terabithia holds up...
I haven't thought about my wife, Anna Sofia Robb, in a while.

When words don't have an agreed upon meaning then everyone can believe they're right and fight to defend it. This is ever more prevalent. Though it's also the case that words and ideas becoming identity dependent is more and more common.

What's the difference between grimdark and edgy?

>>20848294
grimdark is depressing
edgy is trying too hard to be cool and mysterious

recommended alternate history novels?
interested in reading some cold war gone hot ww3
a retelling of the whole conflict, like a recap of ww2

>>20848310
Sir, this is the Science Fiction and Fantasy. Go make a separate thread for that.

Protip: filter anyone who use the term grimdark unironically.

Grimdark is really a continuation of the tradition of tragedy, based on a character flaw (called hamartia in Greek drama) with the principal action being the exploration of downfall and destruction.

Eisenhorn embodies this - he begins as an honourable Amalathian (moderate) inquisitor, and through his stubborness and ruthlessness he sees himself pulled into corruption and the Warp. By the end of the trilogy Eisenhorn is probably no better than Quixos whom he previously executed for heresy - Eisenhorn himself is now carrying a warp sword, much like the corrupted Kharnagar of his previous nemesis, he has bound Cherubael a daemonhost to his will, he is killing innocent civilians and the inquisitors hunting him, as well as torturing and sacrificing his own once loyal followers.

The passage I remember staying with me at the very start of Eisenhorn is this one. Upon the hibernation tombs of vaguely Ice Planet not-Hoth, Eisenhorn has arrived in the innocence of his determination.

Some chaos cultist stuff inevitably occurs, and Eisenhorn contemplates the first (of many) civilian deaths. I wonder if this is the act which begins his path towards damnation:
***
I pushed on down the gallery, stepping over the blasted ruins of the sleepers who had inadvertently spared me. The wounded one, a middle-aged female, compromised and naked as she lay in the melt-water, clutched at my leg, begging for salvation. Eyclone’s gunfire had all but disembowelled her.

I hesitated. A merciful headshot now would spare her everything. But I could not. Once they were awake, the hierarchy of Hubris would not understand a mercy killing. I would be trapped here for years, fighting my case through every court in their legislature.

I shook off her desperate grip and moved on.

Do you think me weak, flawed? Do you hate me for setting my inquisitorial role above the needs of one agonised being?

If you do, I commend you. I think of that woman still, and hate the fact I left her to die slowly. But if you hate me, I know this about you... you are no inquisitor. You don’t have the moral strength.

>>20847447
A long time ago, I read Magician and all of the Daughter of the Empire novels (collaboration between Janny Wurts and Raymond E Feist?) I remember thinking at the time: this is so amazing! So original! There is no metal, they use insect claw limb things for swords! Later on I discovered all of the Riftwar saga was based off the rpg campaign setting of Tekumel, which Raymond E Feist just sort of stole without any acknowledgement of its influence. Also re-reading his writing, it is really poor lol, the most generic fantasy archetypes and encounters ever.

Good morning, fellow Reverend Insanity readers.

Name a more annoying fanbase.

>16.2: Can We Just Buy Out J.K. Rowling?
>(Reaction Pod)

>The internet went crazy today when a rumor seemed to break through about the always-destined Harry Potter television show — specifically that while no series is actually in the works, WB is now officially shopping for writers and pitches for an HBO Max event. We did a quick-and-dirty reaction pod with our three hosts and our good friend Proma Khosla, a longtime LeakyCon staffer and Mashable entertainment reporter, to break down the news, what it means for the franchise, and what the fandom does now.
>Basically, we decided the fandom just needs to get a trillion dollars together and buy the franchise from JKR.

(In case someone wonders, a trillion is 10^12. And the current world population is 7.9*10^9. That would be like asking *all* living humans for 7900 dollars each...)

I'll wait.

>>20848548
All this for the sake of trannies.

>>20848091
T.b.h. familia, WH40k really isn't grimdark enough to be called grimdark nowadays. At minimum they gotta corrupt and kill off the girly man in the most humiliating fashion possible to reclaim their tagline.

>>20848548
>The internet went crazy
I hate normalfag sensationalizations like this.
>Proma Khosla
Sounds like an sff character.

>>20848556
>All this for the sake of trannies.
Yes. What a hill to die on.

>>20848582
>I hate normalfag sensationalizations like this.
Me too! It's like they lack a written language. How ironic, regarding their HP-fandom. (If a bunch of books based on legos can be considered literature, but who cares?)

>>Proma Khosla
>Sounds like an sff character
Ha-ha!

Can't complain about her industriousness:

https://www.promakhosla.com/selected-work-2

And what's the fandom-cons (cons, get it ha-ha) policy on preventing sexual abuse?

>>20848548
And no one is this fervorous for solving actual problems like world hunger.

>>20848548
Why does harry look like a sissy?

Tell me some good isekai where mc is not a dumb fucker

>>20848641
kek all these literal whos with their own dumbshit refurbished opinions
>the harry potter girl
Whenever I meet a girl who reads HP, I roll my eyes and can't take her seriously. Such an overblown shit series.

>>20848671
Log Horizon

>>20848691
Already watched the anime i want to read something

>>20848691
Is Log Horizon on that list of long book series chart that is sometimes posted?

>Edred: "Our history reaches far into the past. Our forefathers bore witness to the glory of the first dawn, banishing the lasting darkness: daring to thread the paths the gods forsook. "
I wrote this sentence today, and now I want to kill myself.

>>20848548
I think it's pretty funny, albeit in a sad way. I do wonder if she's going to cave eventually or if this is where she actually draws the line. For all her money, Rowling has shown to be susceptible to peer pressure after all. For instance, if that TV series shoud materialize there can be little doubt they'll go with black Hermione, sanctioned by JK herself. The vocal trannies will certainly never relent until they get what they want.

>>20848726
Don't be too hard on yourself, it reads like perfectly generic fantasy.

>>20848763
Yes. That was exactly the problem. I've been trying to write my tolkien clone for years now. Just deleted everything again. I can't fucking WRITE. I just have pages and pages of characters and events and maps and names.
Every time I pick some time and place for something epic to happen it comes across as generic garbage fantasy with spelling and grammatical errors on top.

>>20848726
Did you mean 'tread'? 'Threading' a path isn't necessarily not a thing, but you're more likely to tread one.

>>20848798
yes, but it was supposed to be written in such a manner as to allude to choosing to explore darker timelines, what with the "far into the past" thing. So they are sort of branching off into all the godless dark realms before finding the light.

>>20848794
If the explicit goal is to create a Tolkien clone, I don't think you can expect to put something of great originality on paper. But that's fine. People have made entire careers out of their generic Tolkien clones.

Fantasy with lots of eloquent court intrigue? I love the court sections of Lyonesse. Vance really has an ear for writing dialogue spoken by royalty and the nobility.

>>20848831
>originality
not trying to be that guy but that really is the most pointless thing to worry about in the era of mass produced media. there is nothing new under the sun etc.

>>20848869
>there is nothing new under the sun etc.
My brother...

>>20848880
Nobody cares about your horrendous dog shit series. Kill yourself

>>20848726
For what it's worth, I like it. The theme of 'Humans transcended the limits the gods intended for them ' will never not be utterly epic.

>>20848825
kinda like this

>>20848880

>webnovel.com

Found the Volvo driver.

>>20849050
lmao the fic got swatted down by the CCP because another author was butthurt over RI's success so he reported it for being subversive (which it was by CCP's standards so the author was forced to end it)

https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1660651525147626.webm
https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1660651525147626.webm

>>20849102
very cool, anon, thanks

>>20849124
Why do you thank him

>>20849132
Because he’s shitting up /sffg/ with stupid shit, which reminds me how far far this general fell.

>>20847172
I’m a big fan of Ballard and I am planning to read Peake, although I had to return a Mieville book the other day. I didn’t enjoy it. I’ll have to give it another go.

>>20843319
i liked the forgotten beasts of eld. Beautiful prose and the story stuck with me

>>20849059

If only there were platforms that weren’t completely owned by an authoritarian regime.

A man can only dream.

>>20846280
man what the fuck

>>20849315
You're preaching to the choir man, I publish to RR

>>20849315
>Amazon
>Not an authoritarian monopoly
Lol

>>20846280
Satanic

Zoomers really do stop posting in theee threads when it reaches the bump limit.

>>20841588
>>20841601
>rape
If you look into history, Philomel was exalted as an aesthetic ideal (she was violated and had her tongue cut out by Tereus). There are lots of classical paintings and illustrations of this woodland scene.

Shakespeare found Philomel so beautiful, he wrote a homage to it in Titus Andronicus by creating a character Lavinia who not only is violated but also has her hands cut off in addition to her tongue being ripped out, and then Shakespeare included a scene where Lavinia gestures in wordless agony and shame with her mutilated arm stumps at the passage of Ovid's Metamorphoses that describes what happened. Titus Andronicus featuring the ravishment and maiming of Lavinia was extremely popular amongst the Elizabethan audience of Shakespeare's time. If you read other Shakespeare's plays, for instance Henry V, the Hero King nonchalantly threatens rape against the inhabitants of Harfleur during the siege:

KING HENRY.
...
I will not leave the half-achieved Harfleur
Till in her ashes she lie buried.
The gates of mercy shall be all shut up,
And the flesh’d soldier, rough and hard of heart,
In liberty of bloody hand shall range
With conscience wide as hell, mowing like grass
Your fresh fair virgins and your flow’ring infants.
What is it then to me, if impious War,
Array’d in flames like to the prince of fiends,
Do with his smirch’d complexion all fell feats
Enlink’d to waste and desolation?
What is’t to me, when you yourselves are cause,
If your pure maidens fall into the hand
Of hot and forcing violation?
...
Therefore, you men of Harfleur,
Take pity of your town and of your people,
Whiles yet my soldiers are in my command,
Whiles yet the cool and temperate wind of grace
O’erblows the filthy and contagious clouds
Of heady murder, spoil, and villainy.
If not, why, in a moment look to see
The blind and bloody soldier with foul hand
Defile the locks of your shrill-shrieking daughters;
Your fathers taken by the silver beards,
And their most reverend heads dash’d to the walls;
Your naked infants spitted upon pikes,
Whiles the mad mothers with their howls confus’d
Do break the clouds, as did the wives of Jewry
At Herod’s bloody-hunting slaughtermen.
What say you? Will you yield, and this avoid,
Or, guilty in defence, be thus destroy’d?

>>20849596
Okay, no one asked.

>>20849596
>Shakespeare
>actually writing anything and not stealing other people's work

>giant effortpost about rape
Righteo gentlemen, time for a new thread?

>>20849611
At page ten, you dipshit. You already know this.

>>20849619
He’s a zoomer, anon. His brain can’t handle the fact that the thread isn’t in the first page.

>>20849371
>monopoly
>on distributing 2mb zip files for $8
You retain more rights with Amazon or almost any other company vs Webnovel.

jolenta wanted consensual relations on that boat

>>20849596
>>20849600
>>20849607
>>20849611
I guess this is why all the anons that complain about the sex and violence in Bakker are unable to situate it in relation to history though. They are used to playing videogames where you hit a dehumanised orc with a sword and there is a puff of magic pink dust and the corpse disappears or something.

In many ways grimdark is not grim or dark enough - this is merely going back 400 years to the relatively civilised Shakespearean era. Imagine what occurred even before then etc. If tragedy is not depicted honestly in fiction, especially fantasy fiction, which has no constraints with regards to possibility, then tragedy will end up being inflicted upon the real world by those blind to its causes and consequences. This is what is happening today.

>>20849650
Jesus are you still seething people called you a retard that you didn’t know what grimdark was? That was hours ago. Let it go.

>>20849650
>dude war and suffering is...LE BAD
>which is why ancient and medieval people glorified war and wrote poems and epics depicting war and battle as a good thing

>>20849630
But they pay you a higher royalty if you go with them exclusively, which is kind of shitty for both producers and consumers.

>>20849658
no I just read the first two posts on the thread. If you can find and quote Shakespeare, I suspect you would not find grimdark too difficult a concept to grasp.

>>20849681
>LE

>>20849691
Whatever you say, anon. Just remember that this is online, and if this affects you personally to the point that you have to revive something that wasn’t discussed for more than six hours, you might need to get off the internet.

>>20849681
>>20849681
Of course, those poems exist. But what is the story of the Epic of Gilgamesh? At the very moment of his triumph with Enkidu, killing the bull of the gods becomes his downfall. Have you read the ending of Beowulf? Of course it glorifies his prowess as a warrior. But it ends with the Geatish woman, and the ominous foreboding that his sacrifice will just lead to more war and suffering for his people, as with his death they are of a leader bereft. All the best stories contain glory and warning in equal measure; it would be foolish to remember one and forget the other.

>>20849700
Honestly, if this affects him personally, that anonymous people disagreed with him, I think the issues are more mental/psychological than spending too much time online.

So I've been reading web novels for years now and uhhh
What does a sword cry sound like

>>20849722
Like a cold snort but louder

>>20849722
Shinnngggg

>>20846113
The first book is generally considered to be the weakest part of the series. There are a fair number of people that claim you should read until Memories of Ice before deciding whether or not to drop the series. I feel like the series peaked at Toll the Hounds myself.

>>20849709
Fucking pseud
Basically every ancient poem and epic glorifies war and battle. Roland's sacrifice is a sacrifice yet it is a glorious one.
Stop pushing modern ideas onto ancient people you retard

What books fit these categories?

>>20849887
None, because that image is nothing but schizo.

>>20846316
Yes, I never felt like I had to stick to fantasy or sci-fi. Though most of my reading over the years was educational. I'm just kind of disappointed that fantasy isn't sucking me in like when I was younger. No doubt some of this is depression.

>>20849636
The post that saved /sffg/.

Which House has the stronger blood? The Atreides or Anasurimbors?

>>20846113
When you give up and start The Second Apocalypse.

>>20850130
Not into fag shit, sorry.

>>20850117
We need to see how autistic crab boy is to determine that.

>>20849887
>total nihilistic un-singularity
>autonomous pajeet technocracy
lord of light
>hyper-commodified cocaine capitalism
space merchants
>recursive matrioshka brain universe reduplication exit
>ex-human pangalactic strip mining singularity
inhibitor sequence
>interplanetary technofascist manifest galaxy
dragon never sleeps
>fully automated gay space luxury communism
>globohomo vampire-elite enslavement
forever war

Everything else is gay shit from movies or anime.

>>20849650
Good and thoughtful post. Of course it will fall on the deaf ears of this thread, most of whom have a Grade 7 tier depth of understanding of the nuances of human history and morality.

If there’s something that bothers me about GRRM’s grimdark, it’s that he writes it in the style of an American soap opera (as he writes all his work): tawdry, grisly, lurid, spectacular. Bakker’s descriptions of atrocities mass rape etc. are actually quite restrained and evocative in comparison, and as a consequence come off as far more disturbing and horrifying. As such things should be.

>>20845780
LitRPG is cringey millennial "self-aware" meta humor. You can't go more than 2 pages without characters making it known that they're aware of the crazy world they're in, or breaking the 4th wall.

Started reading Crescent City. Very weird. It's smutty and edgy like a limp bizkit song. They swear every other wood and everyone looks like a clown. Everyone wants to bang the stuck up main character.
Reading as part of an office book club. Woman that set it up complained how men write and describe women but the characters are always described by their ass and muscles. It's very strange man.

>>20850428
>"well it's fine when I do it, that's just equity"

Richard.
Scott.
Bakker.

>>20850440
It's weird awkward and in random places
"Hunt walked to the room his back muscles glistening "
"Bryce swaggered by like she knew how good her ass looked."
Half the time I'm embarrassed at what I'm seeing and the other half I laugh how goofy it is. You have hundred year old mythical creatures talking like a 15 year old.

>>20850459
>>20850440
Also they use the word "Alphahole" 200 times a chapter. Genuinely the dumbest thing I've seen in a long time.

Anon used to post this every thread some months ago, i got It today and is not bad, only 50 pages in thoo

>>20849650
I don't see anons complaining about the violence and sex in the second apocalypse. I see a lot of anons complaining about the amount of cuckoldry and gay sex though.

I think these are very different issues.

>>20850473
You’re implying he’s arguing in good faith.

>>20845476
Hey, LOTM did it and you loved that, didn't you?

>>20849690
>ohhh nooo, jeff bezos won't give me the loyalty discount
>it's a monopoly
What level of throwaway schlock are you writing that you'll give up the whole IP for another few % of the epub sales? Furry harem writers have more respect for their work than that.

>>20850473
The gay sex is only implied. And I can only really think of 2 instances of somebody getting cucked in the first trilogy. Sandersois greatly overstate the cucking in the books.

New thread
>>20850656

>>20848701
Mushoku Tensei
I recently read Isekai Ojisan and while it doesnt fit with what you described, its still a worthwhile read. Also >>a

>>20850635
Literally all the main male characters get cucked or assraped