/lit/ - Literature

and lo, at once it came to him. that the universe was spawned not of freedom but of will. evolved will, spawned from the crucible of life, ever growing, ever manifesting.
so great the collective will of humanity and its reaches has it paralleled Babel, civilisations doomed to fall into themselves.

what truly is the environment, the very cue of our manifestations and envisions. moulded to our purposes, refined for exercising will. the machine of man presses onward

for long have the imbeciles talked amongst themselves of freedom, not seeing greatness where degree lies will. we are not god, not yet, for still the masses question what why.
the why lies in our very essence, evolution, will. it sees to us the loftiest of scales, in all our efforts in creation of our children, we at will, manifest manifest.
named of what our reaches are, we know not, but we call him god. so has the ultimate plan come today, our end is yet but a beginning, a wash of sin and chain. absolution

okay how about that?

Two chapters edited today. I'm thinking this draft will be done by next Sunday, then one more draft after.
Also got me thinking if and how these chapters might get broken up later. I number them to form a timeline in my head but in the end might shed the numbers and give them names. I don't know. How do anons like to section their stories?

Can't wait to read Sange's Balls Above the Mouth!

>>20831236
I have balls in my mouth and I must scream!

I'm going to write a story

The guy went along and then the guy did this and that, the guy felt this and that, the guy thought this and that,the guy met other guys, they were different, they each did, felt, and thought different this' and that's, that's about it really

To a Trampled Lilac on the Bryant Park Station Steps

Were you the one I promised then
I'd give my not quite lover?
No, that has withered: then again,
A likeness, or a brother?

As sharp gusts from the stairs distend
Your color, dulled, reminds me.
Then like a bull loosed from its pen
The present shoves behind me.

But let me stay awhile and look
In sentimental fear.
I crushed you once inside a book:
How have I found you here?

Now all but I chase their affairs,
Like she who flees me. Off somewhere,
The wind rises to meet her,

And meanwhile, rushed on, I descend.
Farewell, fair traveler, floral friend:
I won't see you twice either.

After finishing Ulysses I have decided to also copy the Odyssey but make it done all online through forums, chatrooms, and MMO game chat logs

Probably unrelated to this general but how the FUCK do I improve my handwriting bros? I'm in my mid-twenties and used to use the cope of "everything will be digital when I'm older." Now I write like a child.
Pic related, not my actual handwriting but it's similar.

>>20831247
Every story sounds boring when you look at it that way. Like Lolita in all its achievements, can be boiled down to "man thirsts for lolis". Surely your story has more to it?

>>20831267
hold your wrist still and write with your arm and elbow

>>20830687
I had the sense to major in STEM, and pick creative-writing related subjects for my two required half-minors.
I have a real job, paying real money, and I write on the side (which so far isn't paying squat).
>>20830865
One in a hundred? You wish. The odds are MUCH lower.

Ugh. That's twice now that OP has neglected to link to the previous thread: >>20821957

I'm still working on removing the excess actions and improving the fight scene choreography. I think if we can hammer out the structure, this script could be very strong. It's supposed to be Albee's Zoo Story but with guns.

https://www.scribd.com/document/551280851/Unfiltered

>>20831250
Very nice, anon. I like how the rhymes seem to jump out at you just as they’re being read. Kept me on my toes.

>>20831323
Based and same. I do research Chemistry, read and write lit in my spare time.
>>20831331
Damn. It was even in my clipboard and I forgot to. Guess I'll die.

I'm in the middle of writing the most authentic piece of work I have ever created. The words if not perfect are all tied to the exact form I have in mind and though it will take awhile I have no doubt that I can see exactly what I want to do with it...... Meanwhile I'm going through one of the most serious phases of dopamine/digital/media addiction I've had in many years. Up late. Watching porn. Binge downloading Vidya and not playing it. YouTube. Instagram. I'm going crazy at the moment it's really fucked up. I want to take this story away from my house and get it physically out and about somewhere but I don't know if I go to a library is it easy to find some place to work?

>>20831190
claustrophobia pulse vertigo what kind of hell is this

>>20831362
You're gonna have to wean yourself from entertainment but also prove to yourself that writing is more satisfying. Try to get in some long sessions of planning or writing stream of consciousness or editing, whichever is your style. Eventually something will click and you will smile. Those are the moments that make you lose interest in entertainment and then you get interested in creation.

>>20831362
Another good idea is to airgap your computer and leave your phone in another room on vibrate or silent. It's amazing how much work you can get done when you don't have a phone or internet connection to distract you.

>>20831362
>the most this!
>the most that!
I don't understand what's so serious about browsing gay social media websites and jerking off. I don't understand why it's such a big deal to so many people that they can't help but speak about it in grand terms like "serious phase of dopamine addiction." Maybe it's because it's all some of you have ever known. Go fight a war or fall in love or something.
>>20831202
>Babel
Well, now that we know you have a functioning shift key, maybe try using it more often. My intuition is that you're nervous about how pretentious your writing is if you were to write with proper punctuation. You could be right. Either way, nobody's likely to take anything seriously that's written without proper grammar. Try, you know, "using proper grammar" first, and then post again.

>>20831405
Also, it's really fucking regrettable that we're now collecting tripfags. You attention whores ruin everything.

>>20831379
You could always do a reverse image search, lazy anon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponte_City_Apartments

>>20831407
Fucking thank you

I wrote that in response to nobody reading my original little essay about free will

Did it make sense?

Figured out I write a lot faster if I outline my stories first. Don't know why I didn't try this sooner.

>>20831449
>Did it make sense?
I don't know. It wasn't punctuated so I decided to remind you that grammar is important to literature and moved on to something more important. In this case, I started fondling my cock and balls.

>>20831362
I usually jerk off before a writing session. I had an epiphany when reading Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon where one of the main characters figured out he was much more productive if he ejaculated regularly.

>>20831453
What do your outlines look like? Mine are just bullet points by chapters

>>20831458
>Not using your sexual energy to write eroge, so other dudes jerk off to your erotic fantasies while paying you to keep doing it.

You're not going to make it brah

>>20831362
Write the first draft on pen & paper with nothing else on in the room, except maybe a desk lamp and a speaker.

>>20831459
Not him, but I write a page or two including nothing but the chatper's events. Then refer to that when writing. I outline each chapter after the previous one is finished, outlining your story too far in advance is rather useless, unless you keep it very vague.

>>20831323
You are so worldly and knowledgeable, much more so than the other naive people in this thread. Good job!

>>20831666
Thank you, Satanic triples poster.
I try to help, but never know if anyone is listening.
On the upside...I'm certainly ministering to "the least of my brothers".

>>20831390
Or, you know, just demonstrate a teaspoon's worth of self-discipline.

>>20831840
No need to make things any more difficult than they need to be.

>>20831250
I liked it on the whole. However, why did you decide not to use any hyphens for "not quite lover'?

Why are you guys against marketing?

>>20831912
We're for anything that works.
But marketing doesn't work.

>>20831912
It's soul draining, ineffective, and we hate normies anyways.

Why are you against buying the books that are posted here?

>>20831874
I couldn't be off the Net when writing.
I'm constantly looking up synonyms/antonyms, or researching minor details of whatever I'm writing.

Finished chapter 29. It ends with the doubting girl asking my religious MC for a miracle or she'll leave the faith. This is a major turning point for them both. Chapter 30 should be a similar turning point on my other MC's path to becoming a believer.
I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel, bros.

>character is aware of their faults and comes off as an asshole
>character isn't aware of their faults and comes off as an idiot
????
how to write

>>20831959
Character is aware of their flaws but not their extent

>>20831923
You could invest in a thesaurus and encyclopedia set. The time you spend looking stuff up will easily be shorter than the time you spend getting distracted by 4chan.

>>20831918
Oh you’re that guy that doesn’t understand the difference between vanity publishing, trad publishing, and self publishing. Lol!

>>20831920
Because none of them had good marketing.

>>20831923
If you feel you need to be online to write, that's one thing. But I don't see the point of making fun of someone because they choose to turn the internet off while writing.

>>20831912
I'm not.
>>20831924
I'm also a fellow writer of journeys to faith and disbelief.

>>20831995
It's an appealing topic.

>>20831968
I do own paper-based references, e.g. dictionary, thesaurus, encyclopedia, etc.
It's just that the Net tends to have more info and be more up-to-date.
Plus, quite often I'm researching some obscure point that would be nearly impossible to find in an encyclopedia, but Google finds it nearly instantly.

>>20831980
And you're that anon that simply insults, without actually explaining a better way to do things.

>>20831994
I wasn't making fun of anyone.
Besides, having a teaspoon (or, preferably, more) of self-discipline is going to pay off in other ways.

Trying to play with character voice and wanna know how this comes across - also does the darkness and humour land? Cheers

>>20832082
Part 2

Okay I bought the worst looking /lit/ book. It better be good.

Do you think lurking on Amazon and similar indie self-publish spaces there's some genuinely great horror / dark sci-fi stories out there?

Was watching The Thing 1982, and ALIEN recently and I'm in the mood for more of the same. But there's a shocking lack of good stories that are somewhat modern.

I'm aware of Chadcraft and his great works, but I'm looking for new-ish stuff.

>>20832027
Noooo buddy, I explained it. You’re just a wee simple.
>case

>>20832027
>>20832115
>point
These are the types of people who are against you making a living from books for some inexplicable reason they’re unable to articulate.

>my marketing is simple
>Flood the market with a bunch of mediocre books until I gain name recognition
James Patterson method is the best method.

>>20832082
>>the polyrhythmic African influence

holy top kek

>>20832105
The narrative can be kind of shallow meaning it doesn't dig too deeply into the situation or past, a few lines are incoherent. Otherwise Emily is cute and she's a good girl, I thought the story was touching.

>>20832082
Sentences are too short. Vary the sentence length.

>>20832123
I see you too are a man of culture.

Personally, I'll have my third book out in a few months.

>>20832190
I'm on #2. I really should work on my cover. I'm going to need a style that matches all my books so they see the cover they know it's mine. Similar to Gardner's chalk drawings. It may be ugly but it makes me stand out. Too many covers look exactly the same with fantasy hot girl looking at something

What do you think about vague character motivations, things that aren't immediately clear and get slowly revealed as the story goes on, specifically for main / PoV characters? I intend to have one of my protags mention he's doing what he does in order to 'Find it.' but what "it" is is left intentionally vague and he never gives straight answers when questioned about it. I know people like to have characters' motivations set up early and set up clearly to establish narrative drive, but I feel like the mystery of finding out why he is how he is and what he's looking for can have an even bigger payoff. Thoughts?

>>20832105
It's honestly not bad. I think it needed one more round of editing, but it works. I like how it doesn't delve deep into some random robot romance. It integrates fembots into the contemporary culture very well. There's little to no preachy warnings about technology being bad or how it's going to take over the world. Which is great in my opinion. Just a nice simple coming of age story with a modern day redditor and a fembot.

>>20831912
I'm not. It's just generally misunderstood here, is all.

>>20832082
I get that you're going for writing that mimics a loose, extemporaneous style of speaking, but you can have writing that sounds loose, or evokes looseness, while actually remaining tightly constructed. That way, you keep readers firmly engaged. Salinger is a great example of a writer who, in his short stories, creates dialogue that FEELS disorganized and off-the-cuff, but actually isn't, so it doesn't give the reader that feeling of drifting around in a big, vague sea. That's how I felt during the first half-page of this, though a sense of momentum develops after that.

>Look I will tell you first off that you have nothing to fear.
I think choosing a punchier, tighter phrasing for your opening sentence would be an improvement. Like, "Look, you have nothing to fear." Or, "I'm telling you, you have nothing to fear.

I'm not sure if leaving out a bunch of commas is a stylistic choice, but I think this would read better with most of the commas left in. e.g., revising "To be frank I didn't want to ever hear about that again. The mental image is just scarring you know." to "To be frank, I didn't want to ever hear about that again. The mental image is just scarring, you know."

I think more paragraph breaks would help improve the rhythm and let the reader know where to pause. For instance, where Lyle shows up. Presumably a moment elapses between "The thing is." and "Sorry. That'll be Lyle. Hi Lyle." So if I were you, I might revise

>The thing is. Sorry. That'll be Lyle. Hi Lyle.

as

>The thing is -- Sorry. That'll be Lyle.
>Hi, Lyle.

Maybe you don't agree with this exact revision, but I really think you should consider doing more with punctuation and with paragraph breaks to create those little pauses and changes in pacing in the reader's mind. Since you're working with nothing but one character's words, you have to really make them work overtime.

Similarly, I think that you should at least consider writing out all the number in this monologue to make it more evocative of speech. In my opinion, "Over 1,000,000 units in by the end of the year" should be "Over a million units by the end of the year." ("A million" rather than "one million" could help develop the speaker's brash, informal voice.)

There were some genuinely funny moments in here, such as, "Suzy and the Silence Present The Great Heroin Fuelled Incoherent Mess."

I suggest you read "Pretty Mouth and Green My Eyes" for an almost entirely dialogue-driven story that could give you an idea of how to strongly evoke real speech while retaining the highly organized, information dense quality of regular written prose. I'd also suggest looking at a play like "The God of Carnage" for a great example of how to build humor and tensions with funny but everyday-seeming turns of phrase.

>>20832257
Perhaps you would clarify for us friend?

>>20831912
>Why are you guys against marketing?
Whenever I see some retard shilling his turd, I feel such revulsion and secondhand embarrassment, I wouldn't want anybody else to feel that way about me. And I've never read anybody's story because the author spammed "please read my story" all over the internet, so I doubt the effectiveness too.

>>20832115
>>20832257
Admit you can't explain it without admitting you can't explain it.

>>20832231
sounds good
readers like mysteries

>>20831202
>>20831236
>>20831240
KYS and the fuck off in that order

>>20832271
Very much appreciated, thank you.

I totally understand your points. The lack of commas was a stylistic choice, I guess in my head he is someone who talks in a kind of staccato that I wanted to reflect through the punctuation, or lack thereof. But I don't think it quite carries to the reader so I will definitely consider revising it and adding more punctuation and breaks.

Totally right on the numbers, jumped out at me when I reread it too.

I will check Pretty Mouth and Green My Eyes out, never read any Salinger so I'm curious.

And I love The God of Carnage, truly fantastic play.

Didn't occur to me to draw from it but I have it so I may well give it a reread. Thanks again.

is 4 POV characters too many for a crime thriller? the premise is that a thief steals a macguffin and then a bunch of people from the crime world and alphabet agencies come out of the woodwork to get it back

the POV characters:
>thief who stole something
>criminal hunting her down
>alphabet agent trying to get the macguffin back
>an undercover detective also hunting down the macguffin

the hunt for the macguffin goes really far around the world so the different POV characters are often in different geographic locations

i'm about 54k words into it, shooting for 100k

You've set yourself quite a task, painting an entire scene just through the spoken dialogue of a single character. I wish you success with it!

>>20832488
>And I love The God of Carnage, truly fantastic play.
It's something I go back to again and again and say, "WHY CAN'T I WRITE DIALOGUE LIKE THIS??? ARRRGH"

Salinger's "A Perfect Day for Bananafish" is what I consider the ideal short story. If I can write a short story one fifth as good as that story I'll be able to die happy.

>>20832283
This guy actually has the right feeling toward it >>20832309. Shilling has been mistakenly conflated with marketing around here ever since that guy showed up with his follow-for-follow Twitter scams back in the earlier part of the year. Maybe even before then; the sentiment has been around with writers for a few centuries. In general the feeling here is that if you do any sort of campaigning or audience searching you're ruining the artistic integrity of your work, because "good work will find its own audience/will be recognized in time", and that's a lie. Good work goes unnoticed every single day. The artistic integrity of the work is already in the work itself. Finding an audience who wants to read it doesn't ruin the artistic merit. It allows the piece to be read and discussed by others. In fact, over time it might even enhance the artistic merit as people debate and discuss the piece in question.
Shilling on the other hand is a poor excuse for finding an audience. No one likes someone who's full of themselves. Rarely, like the other poster said, will you read a book that someone is screaming in your face about. And shilling is not marketing. Shilling is the equivalent of grabbing a fistful of darts and flinging them at the wall and hoping for a bullseye. Effective marketing actively avoids people who don't want to read your shit, because why waste your time with people who don't want to read your shit? Marketing is all about finding an audience the correct way by looking in the right places and that's what I think people misunderstand. They wrongly assume that anyone who mentions anything about a finished product being sold is trying to land a GOTCHA!, they're looking for the catch, what's the trick? So they don't want to be that guy, and then they get the idea that all marketing is bad and shouldn't be done because well I'm not a snake oil salesman! I'm a writer and I have integrity. If I put it up, I won't need to market. People will see the merits of my work and come running to me for more! The current glut of content doesn't allow for that. It's not a bad thing to look for an audience to share your work with, even if that audience is here. That's good marketing. It's a bad thing to try to convince people to buy a product they've no interest in. That's what I think people here misunderstand.

>>20832523
>the feeling here is that if you do any sort of campaigning or audience searching you're ruining the artistic integrity of your work, because "good work will find its own audience/will be recognized in time",
No this is a feeling. I don’t feel any remorse for using adverts because anyone who buys adverts knows it’s a business. No one will care if you fail in silence, and no one truly has ever vocalized “gee I can’t believe J K Rowling ever advertise Harry Potter.”
This is in all honesty some hipster purity spiral of dying in obscurity. You guys can feel like that, meanwhile everyone else will turn to reality. Your worldview is just too weird.

>>20832523
>I-I'm m-m-marketing not shilling
You certainly aren't getting paid. Anyway very cringe. Go buy some more ad space Gardner

>>20832523
>>20832599
I continued reading and realized you went on to agree with me. Sorry I was between sets.

>>20832082
Lost me in the first three sentences and the fourth is even more abominable. No way I would read on.

>>20831923
You’re doing it wrong. Whatever you have to look up can be looked up later. Make a list

>>20832611
I think I should clarify, though I think you understood what I meant after reading the rest, that "the feeling here" refers to the feeling in the thread and on /lit/ rather than your post. Hope you had a good workout bro.

>>20832513
As long as you shift POVs infrequently, like at the beginning of new chapters, you should be fine.

>>20832657
I'm doing what works for me.
May I point out that I have the discipline to keep writing, and not get distracted by bright shiny objects on the Net.

>>20832831
You're so tough and cool.

>>20832218
I actually really like those F Gardner chalk covers. You’re right about them being unique. One of the main reasons Gardner‘s books get so much attention is because they stand out. That and him being the first person from here to actively pursue publishing books. And F Gardner didn’t just write a book. He wrote an entire fucking series.

Don't respond to his shilling.
Just let it go unanswered.

>>20832218
>>20832843
Fuck off Gardner.

>>20832885
see
>>20832890

My draft is currently at 113k words and I calculated that by the time it's done I'll be at the gargantuan and unwieldy 142k words which was also the length of the first draft of my previous attempt at a novel.
I just thought that was neat. Two completely different projects that wind up at the same length.

>>20832513
i think if this is your first novel, 4 protagonists are difficult to juggle
i would have 2 protagonists for my first novel

>>20832916
What sort of novel is it?

>>20832931
Two people's shifting religious views, one going from atheist to Christian, the other from Christian to atheist.
Also relationship stuff and meditations on the nature of transcendence through art and a crisis of masculinity brought on by being in a relationship where the woman is the breadwinner.
I'm hoping to finish it this month but it will take almost 2k a day to pull that off.

>>20832943
That sound pretty interesting. If you get all the psychological bits like moments of self doubt, crisis and questioning one's own worldview and morality, you've the makings of a potentially very interesting read. Best of luck, hope it works out.

>>20832970
>If you get all the psychological bits like moments of self doubt, crisis and questioning one's own worldview and morality,
This takes up the bulk of it to the point I'm worried it meanders, but meandering is a problem to be fixed by ruthless editing.
>Best of luck
Thanks, you too.

>>20832843
His covers are fine. I’ve never understood the penis envy this board has over Gardner and his self published books.

>>20833003
Because it’s more convenient for them to shill the “everyone is Gardner” meme than accept that buying 4chan ads for years worked.

Sblorgar woke up in his Manhattan penthouse apartment enraged. A lamp loomed over him menacingly. With no hesitation or mercy Sblorgar ripped the lamp apart, wires and screws strewn across the floor. The lamps had underestimated him, they didn't understand they were in the presence of a force of nature. There was no hope from the start of their misguided little rebellion. None of them survived the ensuing genocide.

>>20833003
>>20833008
Nobody envies your tiny penis Gardner.

>>20831202
t. schopenhauer

>>20831250
still doesn't sound right

also, gusts don't distend...

>>20833008
Considering the price of running ads, I'm willing to bet he still hasn't recouped the costs of that.

>>20832822
sweet that's how i've been writing it
>>20832922
it's my third novel -- my first one had one perspective and was terrible. second i wanna say i had 6 or 7 possibly which was way too much. idk what it is but i gravitate toward multiple povs every time i sit down to write something

>>20833223
Well yeah you'd actually have to sell books.

>>20833220
They do from an enclosed space. Great waves of pressure swelling from the subway.

>>20833223
I don’t think you guys realize how cheap ads are on certain websites. Amazon is expensive, but some websites it’s literally only 4-5 cents to buy 1,000 views.

>>20833387
That's still not cheap. I've bought ads before - a 1.2mil view campaign runs out astoundingly quickly.

>>20833387
The audience is more important than the price. Gardner bought 4chan ads because he knew there's an audience for schizo books here.

>She felt a little off that morning. A little light-headed, somewhat dizzy, but nothing too severe. She went through her day normally, albeit somewhat quietly due to how she was feeling. Nothing of note happened, sans for a few moments where the feeling got a little worse for a quick moment before subsiding.
>The bus ride home was just as normal as the rest of her day had been. People talking, chattering, playing around, nothing out of the ordinary.
>That is, until there was a slight rumbling sound. Everyone stopped what they were doing and became dead quiet as the rumbling intensified.
>And as the rumbling grew in intensity, the sensation grew along with it. She felt dizzier and more disoriented by the second. She felt like she would vomit if this got worse, but her throat and stomach were completely fine, with nary a disturbance.
>The rumbling stopped, and it became so quiet she swore she could hear her sweat beads hitting the floor. The silence continued for a straight minute, as if everyone was holding their breath. The quiet was broken, however, by an explosion of rock and dirt from the street around 30 feet in front of the bus.
>With the explosion, pain rocketed throughout her body. She screamed her lungs out for what felt like forever, drowning out the fearful cries of those in the bus with her.
>The hole that was created by the explosion soon gave birth to an awful sight. Massive, clawed hands that were covered in leathery, wrinkled skin, pulling up the body they were attached to, throwing up even more dirt as it emerged.
>The smoke and dust made it hard to see what it looked like in full, but it's size and hairiness were all too apparent even through the obscuring particles.
>She screamed louder and louder as it emerged. Every muscle in her body was tensed, and she felt like she was burning from the inside out. Tears streaked from her eyes as the feeling worsened. As if death itself was taking her.
>But as soon as it came, the pain stopped and was replaced with something else. A cool sensation covered her body, her muscles relaxed, and her breathing became deep and full. She closed her eyes and exhaled. As she did, she felt like she was flying upwards. All of her fatigue and agony vanished, a feeling of reinvigoration filling her to the brim.
>She opened her eyes to the sight of the city skyscrapers. And they looked smaller. Confused, she slowly turned her head to the side, and what she saw in the reflection of the windows left her speechless. A gaunt, black humanoid with a cool blue glow permeating any creases or definition in it's musculature. It's head was without eyes, and a series of hardened protrusions covered the upper half like hair.
I like Ultraman, so I'm trying to get that "Grow into a giant superhero to beat up a monster" thing down

Any of y’all ever experience a eureka moment when the story clicked together for you?

Today out of the blue I thought up an ending that actually fits the story, and it was great to actually have the entire thing click together.

It’s my first novel so it’s still a piece of shit but it’s actually going to have arms and legs.

>>>/pol/390984153

Is all this shit about F Gardner buying this site true or just another meme?

Don't reply. Not to him or cross posters.

>>20833570
Those moments are the best. Where you sit back in satisfaction and have to tell yourself how much you rule. The subconscious brain does a lot of that thinking when you're not.

>>20833570
yes i have, anon
i believe my eureka moment was my ending as well. the first ending was crap and i told myself that i'd have to do my best and do the wildest stuff i could think of
it worked out
glad to hear things are going well

>>20833601
Based if true. Having one of our own run this site would be awesome.

>>20833663
For real. Gardner buying 4chan would be close to /wg/ buying it. It would help exposure for all of our projects here.

>>20833601
what is the point of literature if you can advertise your own shitty book instead of writing a good one and letting other people find it

it's just taking way too long to my characters all in the same place

>>20833601
Are you retarded?
He couldn’t afford 4chan. It would cost in the low millions of dollars to buy from gook moot

>>20833696
No one is going to find your book no matter how good it is without a spotlight.
There’s a thousand books published everyday to Amazon. You’re unrealistically optimistic to the point of being childish man. Grow up.

>>20833743
I think Gardner might be able to afford that. He probably has investors or something

>>20833717
can you just skip everything and move them to the same place?
or do they have things to do first?

>>20833751
Rich parents. He has rich parents. That's how he can afford to be an author and waste orders of magnitude more on adverts than he makes off his books.

What's the longest you've gone without dialogue in a story? I have three chapters in a row without dialogue before the ending of what I'm writing now. Having second thoughts on this.

>>20833751
No he cannot, and no he doesn’t. Idk where you guys get this shit from. There’s a reason he advertises on 4chan, because it’s pennies per thousand views. Infact I could run ads on /lit/ for a year straight and probably never spend more than $3,000.

>>20833758
It depends. Are you paraphrasing/summarising what characters are saying or are the events of those chapters almost conversation-free?

>>20833757
Huh. Guess that makes sense for Gardner to just buy this entire website then.

>>20833193
Thanks man

>>20833761
Wtf are you talking about? 4chan doesn’t even have self serve ads anymore.
>>20833601
I think we’ve all already seen the threads. Yes, F. Gardner is evidently a resourceful businessman. He is still highly retarded.

>>20833752
I guess, but it's the "crossing over the threshold" event and it feels like it needs a vivid description. Otherwise they're at home one day and then suddenly in wonderland. Maybe I'll just knock the character out.

>>20833601
>F Gardner continues to buy his way to fame. Lmao. Alright this is honestly extremely based desu

>>20833773
There's no conversation, even though there are characters around each other they won't talk because they can't understand each other. So I'm describing events and inner monologues of characters. Maybe I'm second guessing myself but I had put in conflicts and questions for the reader that the passages answer. It just feels weird to advance the story by actions alone, I suppose. I hope it doesn't come off as navel gazing, at least there are things going on.

>>20833787
You’re trolling. There’s ads you can buy right now at the bottom of this thread moron. Fucking KYS.
Do you niggers even think before you post?
Stop writing. Don’t enter the genepool.
Niggers man…

>>20833819
Retard. Those are not self serve ads. When was the last time you saw a fucking Call of the Crocodile or Archers of Loaf ad? 4chan hasn’t had self serve ads for a while. Go ahead and try to do it if you don’t believe me. You are showing how fucking new you are.

Fuck off Gardner.

>>20833977
If you spent as much time writing instead of getting angry about a meme author like F Gardner you could probably finish a book.

>>20834038
Don’t engage the shitposters. This has happened before with Tao Lin and the Shitkickers author. F Gardner is the new boogeyman for them.

There's a nigger at the back of the bus,
He's looking a bit bigger than that other nigger
He's quite a nigger
Now that I am bigger
Get fucked, you fucking nigger

>>20834157
I too have a bigger nigger rap

>>20834173
I would like to stea- see it, then.

>>20834048
Shut up Gardner.

Idk if anyone will recognise me but I said in a /wg/ a couple weeks back that I was putting together a chapbook about pirates. After reworking it into a short story, I sent it off and it's been accepted for publication. Isn't that wonderful !

>>20834599
Congratulations! Where's it getting published?

I don't recognize you, I just think it's cool you're getting published.

>>20834599
I'm sure everyone will be chomping at the bit to get their hands on Call of the Pirate, Frank.

>>20834599
Literary magazine? Also, congrats.

>>20834610
This is so ridiculous and the meme is getting old. F Gardner has a ton of books. He wouldn’t just shill Call of the Crocodile. That specific book was launched to meme status because of those repetitive ads. You are practically arguing with a brick wall if you think your actually talking to Gardner himself.

>>20834626
Don’t tell him. The meme is funny.

>>20834626
I'm so sick of your shit Gardner. Get out.

>>20834661
Not him. But why are you even here if you don’t like F. Gardner? Are there any authors from here you don’t constantly sperg about? Get a life.

>>20834670
Drink my piss Gardner.

>>20834683
About as imaginative as the “book” you’re attempting to write. Go ahead and accuse me of being the meme man, mate. You are wasting your time and shitting up the general.

>This thread right now.

Gardner is the meme that keeps on giving. Never change /wg./

>>20834690
>About as imaginative as the “book” you’re attempting to write.
You're projecting, Frank.

>>20834626
Supposedly-not-Gardner sure spazzed out a few weeks ago, for someone that isn't him.
Do you need links to the Great Schizo Freakout?

>>20834693
Jigoku is also shit
As are all your other books
I've read them, pirated of course

>>20834607
>>20834614
Thanks anons. It's a small literary journal.

>>20834693
Fucking Kek.

>>20833757
He can’t even afford to hire an editor

>>20834914
(Incidentally, if anyone wants to hire an editor, I'm available)

I'm autistic. Do you guys have any advice on how to write scenes? I keep focussing on little details when trying to write down a scene, so I wanted to know if anyone here overcame this problem.
Thanks.

>>20835005
break each line into a different beat (verb ending in -ing that describes what the character is doing, like pleading or running)

Is it too late to change my cover and edit the book for a 2nd edition?

Fixed the blackjack scene. Thank you to everyone who said to remove all the extra actions and stage directions: this reads much cleaner.

What're the character arcs in your story? For example
>The protagonist basically starts out as an incredibly confused, innocent soul with no real understanding of anything.
>He spends most of his initial time in the story fighting for survival, but the turning point is when he spares an enemy. This begins his path into being a person who isn't driven solely by instinct and has his own personal feelings about things.
>His two mentor figures play key roles in this. One is direct, as they save his life and he eventually tracks them down to repay them. They realize he's not mindless and decides to teach him a couple of things. The other is more like a pseudo father figure who he looks up to greatly and learns from the behavior of. These two things combined allow him to start truly empathizing with others in a way that runs rathe deeply
>However, the curveball is that the main villain of the story decides that our protagonist has become strong enough to give him a worthwhile fight.
>This ends with our main character dying, obviously.

>>20835102
Nope. I did that for my book, best decision I made. But if it is listed on Goodreads, the old "edition" will always be listed on the website with the old cover. It's so gay and I can't wait for them to scrap that function.

>>20831190
Why bother writing a story when I know no one will read it?

>>20834914

>Gardner is rich and bough ads for years
>Gardner is poor and can’t buy an editor

Make up your fucking mind, you fucking spammer.

>>20835175
Here's one of mine:
>Character is an artist, he's looking for a way to leave his mark on the world
>He tells the protagonist often of his dream of wanting to see lights emerging from the sea his village overlooks
>As the story goes on, we learn that he left his village because the shore he used to play on made him feel uncomfortable; he sees a skeleton there where there wasn't one before
>Later on, he learns that the sea used to hold a kingdom and he was one of the final survivors from there
>In a previous life, he had feared that he wouldn't accomplish his dreams and this led to him betraying someone precious to him, causing her to be killed
>He got mortally wounded in the process and he died at that shore
>He faces such a dilemma again this time but chooses not to run away, finally realizing the beautiful thing he was looking to paint was atonement
>The sacrifice he makes ends up carving a beautiful pond so he does in a way get what he was looking for
>After all is said and done, he says goodbye to his friends and goes back to the shore while he still can
>He dies shortly after seeing light rising gently from the sea

>>20831332
I'm going to rewrite the dialogue so the minor characters speak in prose and the three main characters speak in different poetic feet. That way you can look at a line and immediately tell who's talking, even without dialogue tags.

Big-brain shit up in this bitch

Any tips on how to curb "the authors barely disguised fetish"?

>>20835406
Stop disguising it, embrace it

I’m having a bit of a problem with something.
When a dragon breathes fire, you can use all kinds of words to make it sound intimidating. Hellfire, smoldering, smoking, ashes, etc.
The problem is that you can’t do the same with water. How the hell are you going to make a blast of water sound intimidating? It’s literally just picrel

>>20835406
I do this unconsciously

respond with your writing, I'll crit, then if you want to crit this piece of shit you're welcome to it
https://justpaste dot it/53irm

>>20831250
I enjoyed it, though the last two stanzas felt like they were from another work on the same subject, if that makes sense. Not bad or worse, just separate

>>20835410
describe what it's hitting
pressure washers can take your damn hand off

>>20835473
Do you have another link? That shit is sus

Mine is https://www.scribd.com/document/551280851/Unfiltered

>>20833570
I write poetry rather than stories, so I haven't had that for plot. I have, however, had a eureka moment where I finally figure out the right words for a line that's been killing me, and there's nothing better in all the world. I hope everyone who writes gets those regularly, they're half the fuel that keeps me going

>>20835490
you wouldn't believe the fun I had trying to do that

>>20835473
To be perfectly honest, the first segment was pretty difficult to follow. I could understand the basics, but it felt like it was just needlessly complex. I did really like this bit though
>Those who are afflicted ... hardly even matters
That paragraph had a lot to it, but it hit its mark just right. After that, it got easier to read and easier to follow. I don't think subdued is really the right word for what you're talking about with
>the fire gone and the wick subdued.
A better word might be cooled, but subdued just isn't right.
All in all, it's pretty good. I think the writing is the best in that one excerpt, and while the second section from it is better, it still is a bit hard to follow. I think that if you cleaned up some of the wording and phrases, it could come across a lot better, and I like the basic ideas at play.

If it's not too much trouble to critique my shit, here it is:

Waste-
Beautiful colors dance in the West sky
The sun is dead, taking away light
And with it, the day’s potential
Nothing of value was made
Not one accomplishment
I just kick myself
Disappointment
Unfulfilled
Useless
Waste

No-
Fear, anxiety, the nervousness swells
Force yourself forward, make the attempt
A positive response, surprise
Praise and congratulations
Confidence, happiness
Then, later, a text
A simple thing
‘I’m sorry
But now
No’

Free-
Titan, chained to the mountains of Asia
You betrayed your kin, sided with Jove
Created man and his spirit
Brought us creativity
Named a traitor by Rex
Refused to submit
Rebellion
Liberty
Great pain
Free

Those three are my favorites that I've written and have on hand

>someone commented asking about parts of my world
>pointed out that a count is higher ranked than a baron and I have it backwards
I will do it tomorrow, but now I need to correct 30~ chapters.

>>20833570
That's what it's all about baby

>>20833570
I've had a few:
>A plot twist that greatly expanded my world's scope
>Identifying who should be the real antagonist
>Tying the beginning and end

Does anyone have any recommendations for articles about planning a short story?

Day 63 editing
Picking a hard magic system was a mistake
Posted chapters and got comments
guess i dont have to follow meerkating anons advice after all

>>20833570
All the time. I had one when I woke up yesterday and was just like "wait that one mystery about women isn't a mystery at all, I know the answer!"

>>20831267
Stop doing drugs, meditate, calm your mind and don't be in a hurry. If it still doesn't work, then start from scratch and start practicing cursive writing.

The softcore sex scene I'm writing just gave me a boner. Does this mean I'm doing it right?

>putting the adjective after the noun

>>20836219
A car, red.

>>20836219
Works well for quick moment to moment action and character dialogue. English teachers can get BTFO'd.

>>20836219
This can work but it can also imply the noun is being altered depending on the context.
>paint the red town
>paint the town red

>>20836199
I actually started meditation recently and I think it's helping. I also started following >>20831274's and started writing in cursive again, but with my arm instead and it's improving. Thank you both.

>Until I entered high school two month ago, I didn’t know… the dampnes of my uniform’s hem, soaked by someone else’s umbrella… the smell of naphthalene, clinging to someone’s suit… the warm body pushed up against my back… the chill breeze of the air conditioner against my face…

Commentary: Fragments of high school life, mosaic stones. Only those who have experienced such things themselves can talk about them in this way, hence the vividness of the impressions, their realism.

>>20836300
>... the wedgie, annihilating the asshole

>>20836275
>paint red the town

>>20836368
Yup, that's a good line.

>>20836411
Town. Paint. Red.

>>20836420
Sounds like a mafia capo giving orders.

>>20833850
I’m literally buying ads right now. Are you special?

>>20836420
The town, painted red, as my compatriots and I visited each bodega in turn, guzzling every Mad Dog 20/20 and 4Loko on the spot not secured behind the counter. We didn't pay but we did tip each clerk in turn with wisdom worth it's weight in gold: "Best lock yo shit down next time, nigga."

>>20836011
Decides to release your book into the wild and chance its success or failure to luck (it’ll fail btw)?

>>20836550
The town was painted in reddish hues by the setting sun.

>>20831190
I keep defaulting to first person present tense when I want to write in first person past tense.
Is it acceptable when your story deals with the inevitability death? My protagonist dies at the end. The epilogue is told from the perspective of the second main character

>>20836562
Sorry chum, but passive voice is le bad.

>>20836633
I refuse.

I know it's cliche but do you recommend any stories that taught you something about writing? If you haven't read it, read "The Snows of Kilimanjaro" (1938) by Hemingway. There are some interesting lines on writing and not writing. Some of it kind of reminds me of the letter years before it that Hemingway wrote to his "bo" Fitzgerald for him to write the stories he had instead of seething about his life.

>He had found that out but he would never write that, now, either. No, he would not write that, although it was well worth writing.

>>20831190
This is the last time I'm gonna ask. Stop using singular 'they'.

Can someone please critique my little essay?

The issue with the discussion so far is basically, semantics, the use of the term ‘free’ and the inability to make distinctions in context of determinism over time has largely stalled the conversation.

I’m here to push the idea of degrees of will, that as time moved forward, will has established platforms to evolve and develop itself, from the chaos of the early universe to abiogenesis, the creation of biological material and life, the will of the universe so to speak has manifested itself in the evolution of life.

This realisation of greater will as time passes is a point that hasn’t been discussed before in my research, even compatibilism is just a semantic redefinition of ‘free will’, arguing for motivation rather than a greater truth about constraint and the subsequent lack thereof.

The implication of this is that our will depends on the environment, and within the context of will in the modern age, what we have built in our knowledge centres represent our total capabilities as a species.
Through individual and collective efforts, our will is therefore compounded and expanded to greater heights.

Assuming humanity survives long enough, it can only be assumed that science and government agencies may possibly act to expand this growing will to incomprehensible levels. Just as the singularity will bring about immense changes to technology and humanity, so to our will grows.

I posit that given enough time and understanding, a machine or being could come into existence with near limitless will, ala God.

It may be naïve to assume, but our realities and conscious understandings of how the universe manifests itself may be totally ineffable; parallel dimensions, differing physics, truth of the universe etc.

Even within the confines of a deterministic universe, will has grown and superseded itself as we have evolved. To what end, we can only speculate, but as logically follows, we are working towards our own absolution. Unknowingly reaching toward Godhood even as we struggle with meaninglessness.

>>20836765
Why are you saying "basically" and referring to yourself in an essay? You're supposed to speak as an omniscient being and use as few words and clauses as possible. Also, sentence fragments should only be used in character dialogue, not in a scholarly setting.

Incidentally, if you don't know anything about the subject, the best essay to write is none at all.

>>20836787
thank you thank you. where can i get more rules and guidelines to things like that? im sorry i dont know

well the thing is, there's nobody else that has even broached the topic.
there's a passing mention in atomic habits that ive encountered that reflects on determinism and environment as cues for behaviour

and the speculation about reality is just that.

again appreciated, lay it on me. resources, rules. do i just google, grammar and guidelines for essays? because ive tried and havent found anything properly relevant

What do you do when you come up with an idea but it's in a genre you aren't familiar with? Do you bank the idea, read the genre and come back? Or do you just go for it and start?

>>20836787
how can you identify my sentence fragments so quickly? ive always had a problem with that

>t. midwit

>>20836826
I start outlining or thinking ideas while I'm reading up on the genre. Then as I learn more about the genre I change what I've outlined, especially if I've obtained enough experience to judge when something doesn't fit in the narrative. This immersion tactic makes it a joy to plan, but you have to be careful of genre burnout.

>>20835410
Oh yeah? Look up "water jet cutter" and then try saying that.

>>20836787
okay found some stuff. appreciate the criticism and direction

>>20836821
Free will exists in between incarnations not during them. Just double-check that every sentence has a subject and a verb. Sentences are like mathematical equations: the subject is like the numbers you're adding together and the predicate is like the sum.

if you want to learn how to write an essay, https://www.deanza.edu/faculty/cruzmayra/basicessayformat.pdf

>>20835410
It's not just the speed of the water like anons are saying, water is a solvent. It can carry all kinds of things: acids, toxic materials with vast possibilities of symptoms, parasites, sperm. In some environments a jet of water could induce hypothermia on its victims. It can drown. It can wash away, undermine entire houses. Get creative, water can do a lot.

"Talent is a question of quantity. Talent does not write one page: it writes three hundred. No novel exists which an ordinary intelligence could not conceive; there is no sentence, no matter how lovely, that a beginner could not construct. What remains is to pick up the pen, to rule the paper, patiently to fill it up. The strong do not hesitate. They settle down, they sweat, they go on to the end. They exhaust the ink, they use up the paper. This is the only difference between men of talent and cowards who will never make a start. In literature, there are only oxen. The biggest ones are the geniuses—the ones who toll eighteen hours a day without tiring. Fame is a constant effort."
--The Journal of Jules Renard

>>20836889
what does that mean. you realise that there's no moment where we are between an incarnation of thought/decision. its like fluid, you cant capture the true beginning and end of a thought in the stream

we are constantly at the whim of our biological determinism.
you used the example of choosing a youtube video but the reality is that one thumbnail title is better than another because you have a preference for topic. or that one video precedes the other, but then you could 'choose' the second video because you see more value in it instead of the introduction. as an example

you are largely free to choose what you are motivated to do, but you are still constrained by some sort of imperative or constraint. thats just compatibilism

or, what you're defining is just will, which i accept. we exist as observers of our agency or agents to our observations. it adds a layer of complexity through decision making that makes it more difficult to predict than simple physics but still falls within strict frameworks and laws.

i cant even being to imagine what 'free will' is, to act without constraint in this universe. perhaps my definition of it is wrong but you're just utilising compatibilism as i see it.

you can expand will by increasing your options of viable videos or becoming more interested in a wider variety of topics. but reality still funnels itself into a process of decision making that limits you to one option.

free will would be choosing all viable and accepted options all at once without impedence to each other. but again, that's just like describing the 'free will' god would have, a greater will compared to our lesser will

thanks for listening, as you can see, midwit at writing.

do you typeset your story in latex and review it? maybe seeing the writing in prettier form than whatever writing software yr using is helpful in some way to revising yr prose?

>>20836962
>you realise that there's no moment where we are between an incarnation of thought/decision. its like fluid, you cant capture the true beginning and end of a thought in the stream
>we are constantly at the whim of our biological determinism

"Free will" is the freedom to choose what person you're going to experience before you die and come back as someone else. All of "Science" is made up by papists who are lying on purpose which is why they make up stupid bullshit like macroevolution and heliocentrism

>>20837045
you keep getting more obscure or completely schizo
that's more schizo than my claim about fate and godhood being related

>>20836947
sounds like brando sando's life plan

>>20836826
do some research. look for the genre's tropes on google.
read books in the genre
people make fun of romance, but there are things romance does very well, like characterization and dialogue

>>20836826
I outline still and make note of books that I want to revisit or read from the start. One example is I plan to do a historic fiction set in Biblical times. I don't just need to read the Bible but historic and religious texts of the surrounding nations I want to involve, as well as books regarding some of the themes I want to address, some biblical allegory fiction and some contemporary non-fiction.

>>20835241
so when you die, you have the slimmest of hopes that someone will

This all came out of me suddenly earlier. Haven't touched it up much and the main character doesn't really make any sense but I find it interesting. I suppose the context is that the narrator is a painter who's moving in with a patron of his, a rich man named Jamais who has numerous servants working in his manor.
1/3

>>20837385
2/3

>>20837391
3/3

>>20837154
There's a Bible discussion going on here... >>20829079
Based on that, I downloaded the "New Oxford Annotated Bible, 4th edition" (2018) from archive.org .

>>20835489
I know, but the problem is language. What words are there to describe that shit?

>>20837385
>she was wearing
You already fucked up.

>>20837385
>was
>was
>was
>was
>was

>>20837465
>>20837448
>passive bad

>>20836612
I'm writing a fake memoir, so I'm also using first person present tense as memoirs are usually written this way. Use what works with your story.

>>20837507
repetitive, dull, non-descriptive prose is bad, yes

Help bros!
What do you guys do when you're not feeling "eloquent"? Do you continue writing regardless?

>>20837576
If you wait until the feeling strikes you to write, you'll be waiting forever.
I maximize my creative moods by producing only notes and individual lines. I weave them into something legible in my "downtime"

>>20837576
Read
>>20836947

So I just finished Worm and, fuck man. I really, really hope my ending doesn't come off as as much of an asspull as what I just read.
>whoopsie a literal god forgets about its own powers and makes dumb mistakes
>also lol even though we've established concrete limitations for powers we're just going to break them at the last second to win
>oh yeah also, no real resolution to the main character plot/development lol, two bullets to the head should suffice right?
I mean come on, I wasn't exactly expecting perfection but I was at least hoping for something better than the average manga conclusion.

>>20836829
Fragments are incomplete thoughts. Something like "he ran" is a complete thought, but "running quickly" isn't a complete though

>>20837576
if you're doing revisions--most writers do--you can polish your writing up on subsequent revisions.

>>20836765
You need to define your terms. I don't know what you mean by "will" or determinism. In the context of your essay they mean nothing. Sounds fancy, but lacks any substance. Your thesis is also much too late and unclear.

Just say. Yo bitches, you ain't got no freedom cause you seeking to be like God. For real for real understand niggas?

Which makes for the best teenage white girl name as the main character?

Lexi
Maddy
Kylie
???

Can I write a literary fiction novel without having any english degrees? Can it still be successful? What do I need to do to be a good lit fic writer

>>20837807
Thx bruz

I’ll keep what you said in mind

>>20837820
read

>>20835102
holy shit that looks real good

>>20837820
write a lot
read poetry
i think lit fic uses poetry a lot more than other genres

>>20837385
I like the beginning. Feels like a Kafka story. Especially when the man in the suit comes in. But he should have spoken differently (more abstract, threatening, enigmatic). I think you choose the right details for your descriptions. Your voice didn't seem passive to me. With the descent into the basement, the story loses its Asian charm, its Kafkaesque surrealness. It becomes too vulgar for me. I stopped reading.

>>20833026
I like it.

>>20835102
Are you sure you want to go with this cover? It makes it seem more like a scifi that's darker than it is. Isn't it more about contemporary relationships and coming of age?

How do I not write like a furry/about furries? My universe is basically humans evolved for millions of years and take on traditionally animal like characteristics (there's a race of human like Mollusca for example, with visceral mass, muscle foot, etc).
How do I distant myself from being a furry?

>>20838066
You don't, you're a furry.

>>20838066
Read Larry Niven's Man-Kzin Wars series desu.

>>20837966
That's my problem. It feels too dark. Looks good but it's not what the book is about. I already decided it's better for another book.

>>20838066
Does writing about giant monsters count as furry?

>>20836275
That's not really modifying the noun. 'Red' is a predicative compliment for the whole verb phrase. The meaning is different.

"TV" is a spondee, right?

/wg/ I have a problem. no matter how long or how quickly I work I can't edit my book fast enough. the stress and anxiety has only slowed me down more and more until eventually i stopped writing altogether. im taking a break but its not feeling restorative. its just making me aware of how little im getting done

>>20838405
Do you want an editor? I know a guy

>>20838375
Isn't "TV" an acronym?

fiverr has some editors

https://www.fiverr.com/categories/writing-translation/book-editing

you can see how many stars they got along side how many people reviewed them

some of the prices seem too good to be true, imo
i believe fiverr has some rules in place to keep you from getting ripped off, but i've never used it

>>20838501
I edit the first five pages for free, and then the writer chooses if he or she wants me to keep going for a price we negotiate. If anyone's interested, reply to this post with your e-mail and I'll send you some samples. If we've never worked together before, I offer a very competitive rate

>>20838838
Get a real job.

>>20838896
...he says to a message board full of hikikomori and NEETs.

>>20838901
Hey now, some of us are WFH chads.

>>20838896
>thing people pay me to do is not a real job

>>20838902
I am an 8 to 5'er in addition to writing to I am always on the clock somehow.

Any books about scripts or stageplays?

>>20838987
Hamlet, among others.
Noises Off is good if you are looking for comedy.
Uh, Godot, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead.

Need anymore?

>>20838918
The only people who use gif reactions like this are either homosexuals or women on social media. Which one are you?

>>20839041
Take it to r/gatekeeping plebbitor

>>20839108
You’re definitely a homosexual.

I've never written anything before, but I'd like to try. Which of the books from the OP should I get to help learn how to write an entertaining story?

>>20839168
read The Kybalion and Robert McKee's Story

>>20839128

>>20839184
why the kybalion?

>>20839246
the hermetic principles apply to stories, as well

mentalism: character's desires should drive his actions
correspondence: remove all unnecessary elements that do not suit the theme
vibration: keep the plot moving forward
gender: use opposites to create conflict
rhythm: protagonist's decisions have consequences
cause and effect: events should progress logically

>>20839315
that's cool, but I think I'll go with Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft

>>20839359
just remember that plot events should be "yes, but" and contain a complication and the structure of your story should be fractal, i.e. in a movie about the global financial crisis on wall street, cut the scene where they go bowling

2000 words that flop around in different tones and styles. I'll have to throw the whole thing out and start over again.
This is normal, right?

When you submit a short story somewhere, is it supposed to be ready to publish or is there an editor involved like with books? I don't mean the same back and forth editing process and major changes, I know that the story should be complete without any necessary major cuts and additions. I mean small things, like grammatical errors, oddly constructed sentences and such smaller mistakes. I've been writing short stories for a while now and would like to try submitting a few, but I'm fairly certain they won't be 100% ready to publish and I'm not sure how to proceed or if I should even worry about this.

>>20839598
I can look at them for you. I just had a really good idea for a short story myself, actually

>>20839545
>>20839545
Of course. You'd have a stroke if you saw my graveyard file. Everything you write, even if it ends up discarded, gives you more experience and thus makes you the better writer at the end of the day. Scrapping stuff's just a part of the process.

>>20832082
>>20832091
Didn't even skim this. Why? You lack spacing (or indentation). If you're trying to publish, know that publishers will outright reject your work based on the first page alone if it has too many errors.

A wall of text like these, is an error.

>>20834626
if people like you ignored the people joking about it and stopped arguing with them then the joke would just be a couple of posts in the thread instead of dozens of posts.

>>20839780
The problem is, he stupidly outed himself as the seething schizo samefagging pseud that's been shitting up this thread for who knows how long.
I can point you to the Great Schizo Freakout, if you like.
He's no longer an innocent memester; he is now a cancer that must be excised.
Things will never be the same for him.

Those unfortunate souls who dare get close enough to see their own twisted visage reflected in the crystalline surface of the reservoir seem changed for both taking something from the lake and leaving some of themselves within it. Ethereal. That was the word most who had experienced the bounties of the lake had best used to describe its qualities when regaling their encounter.

Truth is I couldn’t tell you the extent to which i tested those waters, the only record that remains is what was written in earlier pages of this memoir. My mind and sensibilities have been warped and influenced by the waters of that pond to such a degree that I find it hard focusing my thoughts on anything else. Yet I'm better for it. I’ve bathed in the fountain of youth and its waters have washed away my sins. My penance is my devotion.

1) Who is Gardner?
2) Can you faggots stop bringing him up in every third post and keep the discussion to writing?

>>20839808
1) Literally nobody worth mentioning.
2) Nothing would make me happier.

>>20836665
This is the last time I'M going to ask. Stop posting this picrel.

>>20837385
>>20837391
>>20837397
You indent! Thank god, one of your tards here understands!

Mid-August Daydream

One day, I foresee it, I’ll die on the subway,
Whether dry-throated, slow-cooked, or pickled in brine.
After a lifetime of rushing from here to there,
If I’m lucky, perhaps, I’ll have a moment to pray.

I’ll be calm when it happens, because I foretold it,
I tell myself hoping to make those words true.
Somebody will say: Henry has died on the train.
Someone else, caring casually, will ask gently: Who?

Selfish, I’d like to go alone when it happens,
Though I know better than to make such enormous requests.
I’d like to go at four or so, to delay no one’s trip,
Near the end of the line, after everyone’s left.

One day, I’ve foretold it, I’ll die on the subway,
The steel car my one and only makeshift grave.
I know it’s much to ask that it swallow me and me only,
But please, for me: privatize transit in just this one way.

Below the city’s throbbing veins
Have clogged, have burst: so let me drain.

>>20837820
Read, a lot.
Write, a lot.
Go to college and pay thousands of dollars to learn how to do both, never.

Well, all right. Some people thrive in university, but the point remains you do not need these accolades to be a writer. If you learn how to read and write well, you've put the worst of the struggle behind you.

>>20839204
Not him. This made me chuckle.

>>20839815
So stop doing it maybe? There's a thought.

>>20839598
Short answer is yes, the stories should be ready to publish. While some places may go through an editing process, you aren't doing yourself any favours submitting an half-done work to them, and many places just won't bother with you. So polish up those stories, send them off, and good luck anon.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HsLfrpEAfB8&t=3180s

You guys seen this?

>>20839960
Yeah. Epic.

>>20839890
But he keeps poking the bear...see >>20839960
Then he samefags...see >>20839967
It's getting really old.

>>20839960
Gardner’s unfathomably based.

>>20839808
He’s the guy who wrote Call of the Crocodile.

>>20839315
based and hermeticismpilled

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HsLfrpEAfB8&t=3148s

Reposting this classic. Enjoy.

>>20840429

Hey lads, GAMBY here with another PREASON POWER RANKINGS list! After tonight's game, I've adjusted the rankings, let me know if you agree or not!

1.Cleveland Browns
2. Atlanta Falcons
---POWER GAP---
3. Minnesota Vikings
4. Indianapolis Colts
5. Tennessee Titans
6. Seattle Seahawks
7. San Diego Chargers
-TINY POWER GAP-
8. New York Giants
9. Baltimore Ravens
10. Tampa Bay Bucs
11. Detroit Lions
12. New Orleans Saints
13. New York Jets
14. St Louis Rams
15. Houston Texans
16. Jacksonville Jaguars
17. Carolina Panthers
18. Buffalo Bills
19. Pittsburgh Steelers
20. Dallas Cowboys
21. San Francisco 49ers
22. Miami Dolphins
23. Green Bay Packers
24. Denver Broncos
25. Arizona Cardinals
26. Chicago Bears
---MASSIVE POWER GAP---
27. Philadelphia Eagles
28. Cincinnati Bengals
29. New England Patriots
30. Kansas City Chiefs
31. Oakland Raiders
32. Washington Redskins

>>20840511
Doc, you seem to have taken a wrong turn.
Head back to Albuquerque and take the left instead of the right.

Which one sounds the best?
>I honestly could not tell you how he was still breathing after all that. Fighting the demon, almost dying, forcing his body to its physical limit, and then fighting him again and winning. All in the span of three days
>I was still dumbfounded by how he was able to endure the events of the last three days. He fought the thing that took my entire civilization to an early grave one on one twice in a row with essentially no rest, the latter time being after he overclocked every cell in his body.
>By all means he should’ve been dead. Fighting against someone who carved out the Marianas Trench as a side effect of a fight twice in a row in the span of 72 hours and not only surviving but winning. I felt like slapping myself to see if I was dreaming

>>20840697
All three are terrible.
1st one sounds like some anime.
2nd is idiotic with overclocking. Is his friend a robot? Is this sci-fi or fantasy?
3rd reads really weird to me. The second sentence runs on and on.

Overall try to write a paragraph without using a direct descriptor. "I honestly couldn't tell you..." , Dumbfounded, I felt like slapping myself.

>>20840725
Can I ask what’s so wrong about anime? Is just anything with characters who cause destruction by fighting anime?

>>20840697
Why do you have some guy telling us about a fight instead of showing it? Just dedicate 5000+ words to describe the most epic battle you can possibly imagine and have the reader come to the conclusion that: “Yeah, that’s pretty badass.”

>>20831190
In the name of the father, the son, and of the holy spirit. Niggers only exist to shit up the place with their shit-colored skin. One day Jesus God will come back to smite all niggers and send them straight to Hell. And that day is nigh. Amen

>>20840771
Prose is prose and anime is anime, what works for a visual medium with sound doesn't necessarily work for prose.

>>20840697
All three are terrible because you're telling us instead of letting the reader see it for themselves. If I was writing this I would describe the state of the demon and the surroundings while noting the impossibly long passage of time such a fight took, then focus on how this character is still alive after all that.

>>20840771
He didn't say anything was wrong with anime. It "sounds" like anime because the dialog comes off as overly sincere and simultaneously childish and formal. It has an awkward ring to it and uses cliché that make it sound like it was translated from Japanese to English with an audience of preteens in mind.

How do I make a scene not be boring? I was writing a plot based scene for my crime thriller and it felt like I was pushing out an insanely difficult shit the entire time I was writing it. I needed the scene to happen for the plot to make sense and to kick off the A-story, but the entire time I was writing it I kept thinking to myself "this is fucking boring." Any tips to remedy this?

>>20840843
This. To give an example, in an anime you might do this:
>Character sees all the destruction and see the dead enemy, thinking about all the deaths it caused
>Character finds the man who defeated the enemy
>Yells 'Masaka!?' or some shit upon realizing the man is still alive
The way you go about constructing such a scene is different depending on your medium.

>>20840847
Firstly, what is the scene?

>>20840831
I’m talking about an aftermath

>>20840856
That still applies, it's like the focal point in art where you want your reader to be able to visualize what your narrator is seeing. Don't forget that this character has suffered much loss and they should feel something from seeing this being over after a long time, aftermaths can be amazing like the conclusion of Abercrombie's Last Argument of Kings.

>>20840851
>Firstly, what is the scene?
(For conext):
My protagonist is a professional thief. She stole the macguffin and when she brings it to the drop off to collect her money, she finds her partner dead. She goes on the run. This scene didn't feel boring when I wrote it^

The scene in question:

She arrives in a foreign country and gets settled in to her room. She then goes to an Internet cafe to locate another buyer so she can unload/ sell the macguffin as quickly as possible

Subdued rainbow, stark white,
Eternal memory, everlasting gathering,
Love is shown in every hour she waxes and wanes,
Imperishable,
See her show with glistening green,
You, who love will never know.

here's the start of a piece i'm writing.
give me proper criticism please.

The Pacific Inter-Psychic Union building, next to the ezi-buy on Stout Street, was a charmingly shit example of early noughties NZ government-chic architecture. Somewhat hastily opened in 2004 by Helen Clarkes’ Labour government as a response to international pressure from the Aboriginee Department of Dreamtime Affairs, the Union was meant to unite the pacific psychic community under one umbrella. It hadn’t, of course, but it had led to a strange side-effect, namely of ending up as the place the actually potent took roost, or at least slept on the couches. Regardless, it was an important building within the topology of the southern hemisphere’s psychic community. After the National Party came into the Beehive in 2008, they began scything away at the various budgets for most ministerial departments, and Dr Wayne Mapp, the then Minister for Psychic Affairs, along with Heather Roy, the Associate Minister for Psychic Affairs, were forced to affect various budget cuts. This had the effect of further reducing the amount of actual psychics under the government’s employ, however, the employees in question were of the highest possible quality, crystallising as the firm peak of the power structure. They were called PI-PU, and all possible jokes have already been made. Uhm, anyway, this reduction in on-site psychics continued throughout the 2010’s, until the Union had only 5 actual psychics under its employ - plus approx 200-250 support staff (those with mental powers are such delicate tools, after all). All of ‘em having a yearly salary of well over 800,000 NZD, and treated to the highest possible standard of healthcare.
One of their phones is ringing, and it gets picked up eventually, no need to rush.
“It’s me” goes Mitchell
“Why aren’t you at the airport? We were supposed to be there at 9 and it’s well past 9.”

>>20840872
It sounds to me like you find the scene in question boring because there's no feeling to it so let me ask you this, how are you focusing on her thoughts in the one before it?

>>20840877
In the one before it I'm trying to show that she's terrified, but trying to not lose herself to panic, she's horrified and disturbed but knows she can't focus on it or show it (she's in public when she sees the body and is worried she's being watched) --- basically trying to show how she's trying to stay calm and figure out her next move under immense pressure / fear / the recent sight of the disfigured body of her friend/partner

>>20840890
You might want to try and let a little spill through, like her being slightly jumpy or nervously eyeing the outside, that and try to create a conflict between her conscious attempt to calm down and her overreactions from sheer shock of seeing her partner dead.

>>20840866
Honestly my biggest issue is my inability to have the characters really say anything to each other

>>20840909
A good scene doesn't necessarily need characters to say anything to each other, but the sentiments of your POV character can matter a lot here. Furthermore, what is the relationship between the two?

>>20840901
Thanks I will try this out! I think that's a good idea I had sort of forgotten about the scene that came before it and how she would still be affected by that even once she went to the other country

Finished the first draft yesterday morning. 260,000 words. I think I can trim it to 210. Every fiber of my being wants to spend all day tomorrow working out the revision outline for how I want to rewrite various scenes, but I have to get up bright and early to go to my wagie cagie and I never have enough energy to write when I get home. I just have to survive the next few days so I can get to work on it, but not being able to monetize my writing is agonizing.

>>20840926

>>20840923
You're welcome, good luck with it.

>>20840917
He doesn’t know her and she is just confused about his existence because she senses her own genes in him

>>20840938
I think you might need to lay out more context then but as it stands the scene just doesn't inspire awe because it amounts to a whole load of exposition.

>>20839204
I knew this would come in handy one day

>>20840926
I managed to combine two chapters into one and cut one that didn't matter and now I'm projecting my story to wrap up at 127k words. I only need to write 10k more to finish my first draft and finish the 6 chapters I have unfinished.

>>20840926
Congrats anon. How long did it take you?

>>20840986
Two years, but it would have been faster if it weren’t for my hard drive shitting itself. My computer was bricked about 200 pages into the story, and nothing was recovered. I felt so fucking stupid forgetting to save a backup to the cloud. So including re-writing the first 200 pages, I wrote for most of the lockdowns of 2020 and every chance I could before work.

>>20841039
I put a back-up of my text into a flash drive every 1k words, every time I stop writing and am about to turn off my computer and every time I finish a chapter.

Alright guys, I stopped writing for a while since the beginning of this year to get into drawing because it is much more fun. The recent doom and gloom in the community with the AI art is kinda make me want to stay out of it for a while though and I kinda want to fire up my projects on Royal Road again. Is is still the go to site for serial self publishing online? And is the AI shit in the writing scene (dungeon ai or something?) good enough to deceive the average brain dead readers like AI art?

>>20841043
I do it religiously now, I save it to DropBox basically every paragraph, and every week or two I’ll save a backup to a password protected SD card. Having to write the first 200 pages again was painful. Never again.

>>20841051
Paranoia is good for you sometimes.

>>20840511
these aren't even the correct team names and cities

>>20832082
>>20832091
>UK spelling
>neighborhood

1/2

Look, I will tell you first off that you have nothing to fear. I want to make that crystal clear. Clear as clear crystals. So clear that if you looked through it, you could see things more clearly than you can regularly. A clarity-that-would-enhance-human-sight kind of clearness. You get my point. But, here’s the thing, Suze. I gotta lay down the line and just go right ahead and come out and say it. No, it’s not about the fiasco with the shower head. To be frank, I didn’t want to hear about that ever again. The mental image is just scarring, you know? And the colour. I can’t even imagine. Anyway, as I was saying. The thing is—

Sorry, that’ll be Lyle. Hi, Lyle. Do you mind running out and getting us a couple of coffees? One of those caramel things for me and a latte for Suze here. The machismo one or whatever it’s called. Yes. One sugar. Great. See you.

Shall we continue? Right. The thing is… you. You know I respect you. Your talent. Yes, talent. I love your work. That’s why you’re here, on our label. Because of that grade A bona fide undeniable talent. And it sold, Suze. It sold. Our first debut to go Gold. Big numbers. Over 1,000,000 units by the end of the year. You know this. I know you do. And then… Bang! Second record. Suzy Silence and the Waves Present The Great Haze. Gold again. Quadruple the sales. Couldn’t get enough. The textural guitar work. The polyrhythmic African influence. The Wilson-esque harmonies. The use of the Belembaotuyan. Like Harrison and the Sitar. Wow. Made the hairs on your neck stand up on end. The next Joni Mitchell. Inspired.

And then, the hiatus. Understandable. Needed. Needed time to recover. Go and drink margaritas and shoot heroin in Malibu, you deserved it. Two outstanding records. I mean. Approaching Legendary Status. And popular. So, so, so popular. Bigger than Bowie. That was you. And then what?

Don’t look upset, Suze. It breaks my heart seeing you upset. I can always tell. Your lip quivers. The left corner. I know you know where this is going. Look. What happened?

Third record. Three years on. Triumphant return. The magnum opus. The camera’s in soft focus. Someone comes into view. Flowing auburn hair. Astride a white stallion. Agamemnon. You. And the hype for the next record is. Off the scale. Astronomical. Moon-landing-kind-of-feel in the air. Take all the studio time you need. All the money you need. Spirit of Eden type situation. Loveless. But more popular and more money-making.

>>20832082
>>20832091

2/2

And finally, the date comes, and the reviews roll in like a freight train. But not the good kind. This is the kind you’d catch Dylan singing about, signifying doom. A train with the colour of that fucking showerhead. A metallic-shit brown. It’s shit. The new LP. Suzy and the Silence Present The Great Heroin Fuelled Incoherent Mess. Just shit. Unlistenable garbage. The lazy half-arsed pale imitation ersatz garbage of an artist strung out and off her face with an ego bigger than her huge fucking head.

Don’t cry, please. You have a massive head. Made it hard to take publicity shots. We never told you. We had to use special cameras for you. Huge cameras. Cameras they used to shoot elephants in nature documentaries. Industrial cameras. You must have realised how absurdly large these things were. All for your beast of a head.

Oh, hey, Lyle. Thanks. Was the queue alright? Great. No, she’s fine. Just telling her about the cameras. The cameras, Lyle. The Elephant cameras for her Elephantine head.

Go on. Drink up before it gets cold. This is the best coffee in the neighbourhood. There you go. That’s it. Nice, huh? Now listen, Suze. You’ve gathered where I’m going with this, I’m sure. I want to make it crystal clear. There’s nothing to fear, OK? But we’re dropping you. No, there’s no way to change my mind on this one. Maybe if you hadn’t spent millions of our dollars on holidays and heroin and studios and steak dinners and session musicians and Daiquiris and Herbie-fucking-Hancock, I’d have given you another chance. Margaritas then whatever. All down the drain.

So we’re letting you go. For good, Suze. Don’t cry. Please, stop crying. I know it’s upsetting. I know. No. No, I don’t think you understand. We can’t risk you defecting to another record company. Well, to tell you the truth, it would drive me bananas if you went to a record company and made another successful album. I’m a jealous man, Suze. So, you’re terminated. For good. For the sweet love of fuck, please stop crying. It’ll all be over soon. Your head’s hard to miss, after all.

New bed
>>20841416

>>20837507
That's not the passive voice.