/lit/ - Literature

>>20830038
>just cope
A is very rarely "just" B. And what's wrong with coping?

>>20830043
>And what's wrong with coping?
Nothing. The problem is that lit professors consider it a legitimate genre worth studying.

>>20830038
As a German who likes Kafka I always thought it was time for the Germans to retake magic realism from the Southern Americans.

The only magical realism I read has been murakami

women project themselves as fulfilling the fantasies and desires of men yet I know they are a nothing-demon that feeds off the divine spark of my longing.
women hate and undermine God because they are insecure that men love God more than them

>>20830050
>lit professors consider it a legitimate genre worth studying.
Because it is, and I would rather take their words than the dumbfucks of /lit/.

>>20830075
problem?

>>20830050
It is. It's just stories like Kafka's works or the Master and Margarita but in Spanish and explicitly Latin American in themes and settings.
You could dismiss a lot of literature as "copes".

>>20830075
>women project themselves as fulfilling the fantasies and desires of men yet I know they are a nothing-demon that feeds off the divine spark of my longing.
Is there a magical realist book that captures this post.

>>20830081
Pretty much.

>>20830053
I think the way its done in Latin America has some elements unique to it, at least by some authors, enough to be its own

>>20830038
There's a Fredric Jameson bit about how magical realism is an attempt to represent a society with overlapping modes of production. Which I think is what you had in Latin America, at least in the mid-20th century: semi-feudal landlords, subsistence peasants, and indigenous customs on the fringes, and then international capital flowing into the cities and spreading out via logging and mining operations. So you get overlapping realities, operating according to different logics and bleeding out into each other.

Magical realism is what happens when the mannered and artificial reality of modernity comes into contact with the spirit of people who still maintain a connection to the other side. They live in an amphibious state

>>20830776
The cool thing about Kafka is that he shows the obscure connection between these two sides. The herds of bureacrats are figments emerging from the same primordial swampy spirit world as the figures of ancient myth, who operate according to rules you will never understand or be able to question. Modern law and ancient myth both have a claim on you that you can never escape.

>>20830038
indigo white is the most wholesome whore on the Internet

>>20830038
What does that say about America and its stupid superhero messiah movies?

>>20830761
What a shitty fucking movie.

>>20830038
>Is Magic Realism just cope for living in a third world country? They seem to go together a lot.
it's kind of a miracle that nothing went wrong except those monsters destroying the rain forest

>>20830053
Kafka was not a German and neither are you; you have to go back

>>20830081
there are at most 10 or 12 good books written in the entirety of South America and only 2 or 3 are magical realism... you can't "study" 2 or 3 books except if you are using it as an excuse for stealing taxpayers money, a strategy that will end abruptly when people wake up starving from all that magical realism

>>20830075
>women project themselves as fulfilling the fantasies and desires of men yet I know they are a nothing-demon that feeds off the divine spark of my longing.
that would be no problem if they put a minimal effort into... well... anything... because at the moment women are driving the mass-importation of criminal immigrants
in their retarded minds they imagine that they will get the same amount of attention and affection from a hyper-aggresive stinking immigrant criminal with an IQ of 65 as from a normal human being, while not having to put any effort into it (or anything at all); that is why they are all so disgusting, even the attractive ones

>>20830776
what you say applies more to persons like Lovecraft, and not magical realism
it's walking a fine line between not being specific enough and being boring

>>20830038
>magic realism
Is this shit not just low / urban fantasy?

>>20830038
Reminder that Angloid natural realism paved the way for woke moralism in media

>>20831780
it doesn't have to do anything with magic (rituals & fireballs) anon
only with dreams, coincidences, and ad-hoc symbols... u know girly stuff white-haired Latin American authors tell little girls before taking their photographs

>>20831881
forgot the picture lol

>>20831881
>dreams, coincidences, and ad-hoc symbols
So is this shit not just psychological fiction?

It's a cope for being tangentially Western. Western civilization loves realism, but Latins don't so they write stuff that's sort of realistic, sort of fantastical and they get Western academics to nitpick over it.

>>20830050
>The problem is that lit professors consider it a legitimate genre worth studying.
That's not a problem. It's a genre worth studying if you're a literature student.

Just the intellectual elite cloaking the hell that surrounds them.

>>20831736
>there are at most 10 or 12 good books written in the entirety of South America
There are a lot more than that according to my calculations.

>>20831780
>Is this shit not just low / urban fantasy?
No. This is what redditors think.
>>20831952
Doesn't seem plausible. Plenty of Europeans have written sort of realistic, sort of fantastical stuff. I think you might be seeing it from your own negative biases.

>Symbolic poetic endeavors that mingle perfectly with the art of prose are too much for white subhumans
Why is that the anglo-saxon, amongst all other races, is so vehemently zombified? Asians, Slavs, Hindus, Persians, Iranians, Latins... The magical coincidences of the soul externalized are everywhere in their literature. The world isn't a land of logic, but of abstractions that only speak to the being beyond being. All of them understand this. Why can't anglos?

>>20831916
i don't know what psychological fiction is anon...
heck i'm not even sure if "psychological fiction" is a contradiction or a pleonasm
>>20831989
if that is so, you must be a knowledgeable person and I would kindly ask you to share your top3 magical realism books from Latin America, maximum 1 per author

>>20830038
Art is cope, yes, no matter if it's progressive or reactionary

>>20832004
But they didn't coin it as it's own particular genre. Kafka never called what he wrote "magical realism". Only someone who thinks like an academic, a critic, or a marketer could be concerned enough with genre to coin it as such.

>>20832047
At least it isn't called Marquez-esque

>>20832038
This is a cope, too.

>>20832025
400 years of jewdification

>>20832047
>Irene Guenther (1995) tackles the German roots of the term, and how an earlier magic realist art is related to a later magic realist literature;[

>>20832057
But that it's not, suggests the desire to associate it with something, namely realism. That it's called [x] realism is not a coincidence. The point is to associate it with realism, even though it's objectively not realistic.

>>20832025
they live on an island anon
sometimes i have the impression you can't even say "goodmornin" to a brit without him answering "whaddaya gettinat?!"
>hindus
they are a bad example as they always had very liberal governors, compared to the others on your list; the lack of discipline made them shit on the street and not produce any writing of worth apart from religious texts (which was probably the consequence of having to live among nonwhite subhumans... and for that we can appreciate them)

>>20832025
So everything that is not strictly logical is magical? That is what you believe?

>>20832074
meaningless citation, it proves nothing

>>20832075
>it's objectively not realistic.
because it's magical realism, not just realism. in one hundred years of solid there's that historical massacre in Colombia by the united fruit company but also curse people who grow pig tails. that's the point of the aesthetic.

>>20832038
>>20832060
first of all, having to speak is already cope
second, writing emerged because you couldn't trust your subjects not to steal your grain... so if writing accounting records is already hypercope, what does that make magic realism?!

>>20832097
nice cope
>>20832086
nice non-argument

>>20831386
Superhero movies are literally just action movies, I don't understand why they trigger such frothing rage in /tv/ these days

>>20832145
They're very mediocre as action movies. They are superhero first, and the any other genre.

>>20830761
Based Jameson poster

>>20832075
I assume you are not familiar with the great marketing triad: magical realism, alternative history and psychological thriller, which are fantasy, sci-fi and horror wearing picrelated. I don't even mind unless it's retconned in years later, as it lets me date the work at a glance

>>20832174
>subgenres don't exist
based retard

>>20832178
If you imagine these weren't made to distance from the genre names associated with children and manchildren losers, you are delusional

>>20832145
they are low quality action movies
they were popular only because the absence of any political or religious content made them accepted by the Communist Party of China so they made a lot of $$$ over there... they didn't need quality because the bugmen don't care about quality, they only care about talking to everybody about how they saw the movie everybody saw and bullying anybody who didn't see it (same logic goes for marketing to blacks, gypsies, women, and any other minorities that see themselves as a group)

>>20832213
>marketing to gypsies
why would they market to a group that doesn't pay for stuff?

>>20832205
Magical realism predates mainstream stuff like Tolkien even. Fantasy was irrelevant when the term was invented.

>>20832174
dunno anon there are authors who are mentioned as "magical realist" who actually researched fairy tales for years, heck even lived one (Italo Calvino being a communist and all)
but yeah, writing-as-a-profession ~ as opposed to writing-as-a-vocation ~ sucks in almost all cases

>>20832237
because marketing to anybody else would weaken the communists, so they burn taxpayers money this way

>>20832242
>>20832245
Well, I guess I was too harsh. But yes, most of the publisher advice for modern authors I've heard values these trendy ones way higher

>>20832213
I struggle to call them non-political since these were always propaganda pieces for kids, though regular action films usually are too. My guess is they interpret it as a gweilo version of wuxia stories about exceptional martial artists, so it sticks

>>20832312
Both the Superhero and Wuxia/Xianxia genres saw a parallel boom in their respective countries when basically any piece of art that could be seen as subversive to the state/status quo was censored.

it probably is a cope since it often romanticizes the things people in the places it's written want to get away from, but if the cope produces good writing, why is that a bad thing? ive read some great magical realism, not much from latin america but for burgerland, mark helprin has some great stuff.

>>20832312
propaganda is not always political
for example it could teach you virtues or it could teach you to kill your parents in their sleep... neither of those is political
what is political is teaching you to serve or defend one specific master (e.g. movies involving war, terrorism, or even police procedurals) or to sabotage one specific country (e.g. movies commenting on how capitalism / communism / whatever is bad)
if a superhero does anything, nobody gets offended and nobody gets reputation points; there were exceptions too, that's why even Marvel movies get banned in China
>My guess is they interpret it as a gweilo version of wuxia stories about exceptional martial artists, so it sticks
probably correct... "bad guy comes, good guy trains, fights him, and wins" is generic enough not to be political

>>20832145
Because they're everywhere and pumped out yearly ever since Disney bought Marvel and every other superhero movie maker wanted to catch up, wished it never happened. Without it, superheroes are pretty interesting in themselves, and yes they originate as a cope, crime ridden Great Depression era US. The first Superman comics were him beating wife beaters and corrupt business
>>20832213
>they were popular only because the absence of any political or religious content
Is a complete and utter fucking lie that came after superhero films became churned out yearly and to the face of people that never cared about them
Also it's an Ameribrained reveal since these same movies get Pentagon funding and props and try to positively present the US army tough and advanced and heroic. But that's so normalized in our brainwashed culture that it's not so obvious to the typical retard. See how he seethes over black people and minorities instead. He only sees the surface and even that is very little

>>20830053
Argentina (where the best MR comes from) is already a German colony, what more do you want?

>>20830115
The Tunnel by Ernesto Sábato.

>>20833325
Also, The Bad Girl by Mario Vargas Llosa

>>20833333
checking those quints by based Vargas Llosa enjoyer

Magical realism should only be read in Spanish
Yes even the ones not originally written in Spanish

>>20831760
>what you say applies more to persons like Lovecraft, and not magical realism
What he said almost perfectly describes Miguel Asturias, his intentions were to capture magical thinking, specifically in the way of it being a normal mundane part of life as someone in the Guatemalan countryside would. Hombres de maize is all about indigenous Mayan thinking and reality conflicting with modernity.

>>20830050
92 IQ post

>>20831916
Psychological fiction makes you question the character's mind and well being, magical realism makes you question their surroundings and reality firstly.

>>20832174
>these weren't made to distance from the genre names associated with children and manchildren losers
>which are fantasy, sci-fi and horror wearing picrelated
A Guatemalan or Peruvian or Colombian in the 30's-60's didn't give a shit about Dungeons & Dragons shit Amerilards were writing about to escape from getting wedgies. And most of these nerds aren't gonna care to about a family drama that involves knowing a tiny bit about the politics of a country that's actually real.
I don't get this weirdly specific and resentful meme, is it some self defense mechanism? Projection?

>>20832174
>>20832205
>these weren't made to distance from the genre names associated with children and manchildren losers
>which are fantasy, sci-fi and horror wearing picrelated
A Guatemalan or Peruvian or Colombian in the 30's-60's didn't give a shit about Dungeons & Dragons shit Amerilards were writing about to escape from getting wedgies. And most of these nerds aren't gonna care to about a family drama that involves knowing a tiny bit about the politics of a country that's actually real.
I don't get this weirdly specific and resentful meme, is it some self defense mechanism? Projection?

>>20832343
Comics were burned in the US and taken to congress after being accused of corrupting the youth, and some wuxia was seen as reactionary and banned, both at the same time in the 50's. There's a reason wuxia thrived more in Hong Kong. I don't know what you're getting at.
Wuxia is closer to westerns anyway, which also has some propagandistic and political qualities.

>>20830038
https://
discord
.gg
/CyRPEQkJw5

https://vocaroo.com/1nehoY02Q1h2

>>20830038
Magic realism is to fantasy what graphic novels are to comic books: a pretentious term invented by people embarrassed to be associated with something that is perceived as less literary.

>>20835369
Couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

>>20835375
This guy right here? He's one of them. He likes trashy genre literature but would lose face if he admitted it so he calls it something else.

>>20835369
If it were fantasy, it would be classified as fantasy. Genres exist because an expectation exists. Magical realism is a particular aesthetic that differs from fantasy in different variables. The settings are real, the eras are real, the historical background is real, the fantastic elements added are considered real within the world, etc. It's not called magical realism just because.

Magical realism is always based on something real that truly happened but with some fantastic elements added which are mostly treated as part of the same world. The prime example of this is the history of Colombia in García Márquez's One Hundred Years of Solitude, especially the stuff dealing with the worker massacre by an American corporation in the late 1920s.

It's a different aesthetic than simply writing about the adventures of Blumbo the Wizard in Kookyland.

>>20835386
So is Dresden Files magical realism? It takes place in the real world with fantastical elements.
>the fantastic elements added are considered real within the world,
This applies to ALL fantasy.

>>20830038
I don't know, OP. The US is turning into a third world country, what kind of fiction is prevalent?

>>20835227
It just keeps happening >>20835369
Seriously, what is it with these people? Is it envy for something having fantastical elements but isn't just ripping off Tolkien and pulps, and has actual educated writers to its name that weren't just trying to fill a market? Is it them not looking past the name of a genre and just assume it's insulting them? This happens every time on /lit/

>>20835451
>all fantasy is trash!
See, you just proved me right.

>>20835384
>He likes trashy genre literature
>>20835398
>So is Dresden Files magical realism?
Again, the projection.
>This applies to ALL fantasy.
A lot of fantasy involves the characters shitting their pants over something and the author entering a self-masturbation session over their magic system that no one gives a shit about and only exists to differentiate itself from all the other cool guy with sword books.
Meanwhile in magical realism an author be trying to capture the feeling of having no control over your surroundings or life by using local folklore or surrealism, and then has to leave for Mexico when the next coup happens and the new dictator has a mark on his head.

>>20835458
I don't think all fantasy is trash but bashing a genre you keep admitting to know nothing about is a clear sign of your own insecurities. You should go tell Kafka he should've read Harry Potter as if there's any connection. You're only embarrassing yourself, I know you're thinking you're only pretending to be retarded, despite having some obvious resentment

>>20835472
>projection
I notice how you didn't address it at all. You have no arguments. The emperor has no clothes. You read fantasy. You read genre trash. You just don't want to admit it.

>>20835496
Your concession has been accepted, you have nothing to add other than save facing and no u's. Epic trollage dude.

>>20830038
Murakami doesn't live in a 3rd world country.

>>20835954
Yeah but Murakami sucks too