/lit/ - Literature

first for LLPSI

Recommend me an easy Greek tragedy to get me started in Greek poetry.

/clg/ learns Greek (and bans l*tin)
after we decide which books are we going to use, we can start with the first lessons

>>20827022
Italian Athenaze

>>20827005
>L-language

>>20827022
>after we decide which books are we going to use
You just closed one can of words and opened another. Except now even fewer people are qualified to chime, but will anyways
>>20827024
>just learn Italian so you can learn Greek
See, it's already begun.

>>20827030
*can of worms

>>20827024
If there are some Italian anons who will follow they can help the rest with the italian parts

Should I learn Latin or Greek first? How long to be """fluent""" in both?

>>20827030
>just learn Italian so you can learn Greek
>See, it's already begun.
just use the English version or get help from romance speakers who will follow the course
we aren't like l*tin savages

>>20827030
Nobody said you need to learn Italian. It's by far the best textbook for Greek and you can supplement it with the anglo version.

>>20827043
Greek
No need to learn Latin
We will start to study together in a few days, in the beginning at a very slow pace so everyone can follow or even catch up

>>20827040
The "Italian parts" are just translations from the original Athenaze.
See >>20827054

>>20827054
I don't want to buy a 70 dollar textbook to translate another 70 dollar textbook. And no, I'm not staring a screen all day reading on the computer like a fag.

>>20827022
I'm finding Reading Greek to be pretty comfy, does anyone have the Speaking Greek audio tracks that go with it?

>>20827066
I have Reading Latin by Sidwell & Jones. Haven't started it yet because I'm still reading Orb*rg and Wheel*ck.

I heard the Speaking Greek audio is shit, but I don't know enough about Greek to say much. If I had to guess, it's likely just "lucian" fans who hate Erasmian pronunciation.

>>20827043
I learnt Greek first and would not recommend it. If you get a good grasp of Latin grammar Greek will not be that tough for you.

>he isn't learning Hittite
just lol @ your life

>>20827096
>isn't learning Ugaritic

>>20827064
then print it

>>20827096
>he is learning
what a faggot

Why do LLPSIlets consistently produce garbage latin?

>>20827127
It's not LLPSI it's the language

>>20827096
>>20827116
>>20827121
>they don't INPOOT Sumerian without grammar instruction

>>20827127
can you leave us alone?? why are you targetting us? we're trying our best.

>>20827043
>Should I learn Latin or Greek first?
depends entirely on what you want to read.

>>20827127
>Why do LLPSIlets consistently produce garbage latin?
Because the method is based on a whole lot of guessing and ambiguity. This works fine enough for the most part to understand fairy tales and cartoons, which is why kids can understand fluent speech using "input" methods, but they can't write an essay. If you are an adult trying to "learn like a child", then you will write like a child even if your comprehension is serviceable.

I really don't feel like arguing about books again, so let's just leave it at that. This is pretty objective observation. I have no dog in this fight.

>>20827144
Not l*tin that's for sure

>>20827066
>>20827080
yeah the audio for Reading Greek is so bad that i can't even read it anymore. all i hear in my head when reading is the dogshit bri'ish prononciation of my beloved greek.

>>20827194
Oh okay, I haven't heard it, but I heard that it was quite poor. Thank you for clarifying.

Cur nunc omnes nos oderunt? Quid accidit?

>>20827271
if you need good audio materials check out Podum Arts

tell me about Winnie Ille Pu, Harrius Potter, Hobbitus Ille, et cetera

do they provide easy reading practice and vocabulary acquisition, or do they hinder progress through poor Latin translation?

>>20827335
Hobbitus Ille is apparently atrociously written - very sad because I love Tolkien. Winnie Ille Pu (I have this one) is the best, but quite difficult for beginner. Harrius Potter, I have no idea.

>>20827295
pauci fortasse etiam unus vel duo homunculi nequientes ob ingeniulum sermone latino potiri atque fortasse immo potius anglice modo periti qui non aliter ac hoc pusillanimi modo tempus terunt

>>20826971
For learning Latin: has anybody used a 'standard' textbook like Wheelock and LLPSI and other similar texts as reading input?

ἀπείρηκα σκοπούμενος ἀεὶ ὅπως βινήσω γοθίσσας μελανείμονας ἐγγύς μου κατοικούσας. τί μοι συμβούλευσθε περί τούτου ποιεῖ, ὦ φίλοι;

>>20827427
ποιεῖν*

>>20827426
>For learning Latin: has anybody used a 'standard' textbook like Wheelock and LLPSI and other similar texts as reading input?
This sentence is written very poorly, but If I understand your question, you are asking if anyone has used a grammar primer and then a graded reader to supplement it afterwards?

That's exactly what people have always done. The same people who wrote the Edwardian grammar primers that everyone here hates on like Benjamin L. D'ooge, Charles Bennett, & William C. Collar all wrote second year graded readers. Look up Easy Latin for Sight Reading, Easy Latin Reader, & Via Latina for examples. Cheap copies are available on Amazon. Also PDFs are on Archive.org. Just search "latin reader" and a million will pop up from 1870s-1920s. If you can read Fabulae Faciles, then you can read them.

This is of course the funny thing about the grammar v input arguments - the people who hate these books have no idea how they were originally meant to be used.

you gave me latin fatigue

I was just a matter of time that /clg/ defected to Greek. I don't know how it didn't happened before. Latin is just the layman's classical language, the easy one, the low hanging fruit. Greek is what the cool kids do.
That's probably the reason why there are so many confrontational arguments about h o w to study Latin, since simply studying it is not cool enough.
The simple fact of studying Greek —not even knowing it— is enough to disregard Latin "normalfags". This may be enough to bring peace and harmony again to /clg/.

I came here from other chan and now I tempted to actually learn Greek. The 2 books of Athenaze cost around 50 bucks. Should I buy them?

>>20827886
Yes.

has anyone tried Maxey's series of Latin books? I believe they're quite old, but received the modern reprint treatment with colourful covers

they seem to be the same inpoot style books as LLPSI, but are split into an initial '1st year' primer containing lots of pictures, a '1st year' reader and a '2nd year' reader

>>20827872
been studying both for some months now, latin is easily my favorite. something so alien, or exotic about greek, can't put it to words; whereas latin feels so supple that makes me want to wish it was my native

Latinfags will do literally anything but read historical Latin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2adtRgOP-As
Salve!

>>20827872
Im not here often but what's doing it for me is the fact that I realized the latin I do want to read is the vulgar latin that academics and religious figures were using in the middle ages and onward which must be interesting reads Im sure but not sure if they warrant learning Latin, especially the vulgar form of it. Greek by comparison has plenty going for it with all the books I can read though some not easy to come by. It's changed a lot too but it's technically still a living language to boot.

>>20827886
PDFs of Athenaze are in the first Mega link in the OP, if you don't mind e-books.

>nihil me est inertius
>I am the laziest of mortals
loeb clasical library "literal" translations everyone

>>20829161
>nihil me est inertius
me

Iulii semen bibere volo.

>>20826971
So what is the best pronunciation of Greek to read Plato and Aristotles (the most faithful to 4th century attic pronunciation)

>>20826971
Day 2 of asking help to /clg/.
I need a translation of this page:
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=35004&st=&pgnum=7&hilite=
I know some jewish but not to the point of actually translating stuff.
Some anon asked in the previous general why do I need this: I need it because I'm writing a book where I indirectly talk about the content of that page.

>>20828171
This is not at all what vulgar Latin is.
>>20830120
z-lib has an English translation of the book, better to look up the page there instead of waiting for the one guy who knows enough Hebrew and Aramaic in this dying general.

>>20828373
there is only the English version in it, no?

>>20830946
go to z-lib

>yes, i SOLELY learn Greek through reading an interlinear Greek-English Homer's Iliad book and nothing else, what gave it away?
>yes, i also ONLY speak with current greek citizens with my Attic Greek pronunciation, what gave it away?

>>20830978
that's actually incredibly based

>>20829982
reconstructed
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mUNhBolXP3w

theologica? Gyro? Logos?
I don't speak Greek please use Latin words.
divinitas, verto and ratio.
Thanks, Greek lovers.

>I studied the grammar
>I memorised the paradigms
>I stared at the flashcards
>...
>when I look at real authentic Latin it's still unintelligible

>>20831178
lexicon is the most important mountain to conquer
and maybe don't jump straight into Cicero and Tacitus
read "De viris illustribus urbis Romae" by Lhomond, then read Eutropius's Breviarium, then Caesar

>>20828171
>especially the vulgar form of it. G
Why make such a braindead post?

>>20831178
Is this a real post? Do you honestly think anyone has ever tried to learn Latin by only memorising grammar parts? Honestly its no wonder LLSPI "people" can't speak Latin considering they don't have any sense either.

>>20827005
>>20827127
>>20827151
>>20827426
>>20827451
>>20827968
is there a kit for LLPSI?
>learn like a child
that would be impossible without a Roman mother born in a Latin-speaking Rome

otherwise, I consider starting with pseudo Cato's distichs (parallel translation by Chase)
any other tips?

>>20827043
>>20827058
fist of all, the female orgasm is a fake orgasm, a somatization of hysteria; that is not a bad thing in itself, so let's not admire women for their fake "real orgasms" but for their art and virtue
second, you have a lot more literature available in Latin, especially if we include medieval and renaissance Latin, and all those medical treatises up till the 1950s
what do you want to read in Greek after you finished with the theatre?

>>20831203
Num tu potes? Si iniuriam facere vis, saltim hoc latine fac, aut tace.
Autem cur adhuc de illo libro loqui vis? Omnes iam eum legerunt. Nonne alios noscis?

>>20831601
>second, you have a lot more literature available in Latin
I'm a 4chan autistic midwit, I genuinely enjoy intellectual activity but I'm also insecure and need to feel superior to normalfags, which I test (not without reason). That's why we choose Greek.

>>20831639
>Num tu potes
No need for tu. If you can't even write the most basic sentence don't bother.

>>20831654
not him but there's nothing wrong with keeping tu in there. in fact tu in that sentence can add more of an emphasis such as "are YOU able to?"

>>20831663
Thats not what he was aiming for.
See ya chuds.

>>20831677
how do you know? lol @ how your "gotcha" moment failed miserably.

sad!

>>20827015
the three theban plays are a good start, friend.

>>20831654
>t. pronominibus uti nescit

>>20831651
joke aside, is the whole /clg/ only about Greek? :(

>>20831853
nope, just 1 autist trying to force greek because he hates latin

>>20831865
>because he hates latin
how can a person hate a dead language? What's wrong with people?

>>20831937
autism is a hell of a mental illness

>>20831865
Are still we doing the learn-along, though?

>>20831954
not hating l*tin is the real mental illness

>>20831954
>>20831865
Romans were fair people.
They would have tolerated autists until they spazzed out. Once they spazzed out (like the Greek guy here), they would have been thrown to the lions, thus forcing them commit at least one contribution to humanity.

For you who have learnt Greek and used Athenaze: is athenaze enough, does it includes enough explanations? Do I need to complement it with some grammar booklet or something like that? Should I start straight with it?

>>20826971
>rūrsus
weirdest latin word

why do people here think that llpsi contains no grammar or that grammar method is diametrically opposed to llpsi? llpsi is ltierally just a grammar book that happens to be entirely in latin. and people like ranieri and dowling who recommend llpsi also recommend that you memorize all the paradigms before you read it.

>>20832119
don't feed the troll

>>20832076
as far as the «Italian» Athenaze goes, you should be getting pretty much everything all the way to duals and at least some basics of Ionic forms, I don't know about the english one

>>20832119
>why do people here think that llpsi contains no grammar or that grammar method is diametrically opposed to llpsi? llpsi is ltierally just a grammar book that happens to be entirely in latin. and people like ranieri and dowling who recommend llpsi also recommend that you memorize all the paradigms before you read it
Nobody says that. It's not a grammar book. It names grammatical terms in Latin but doesn't explain them. Why do people copy and paste this retarded shit to derail every fucking thread. If you like the book, then use it faggot. Stop worrying about what anyone else is using. And btw, we are talking about Greek right now.

>>20832147
what part of "don't feed the troll" you don't understand you fucking retard

>>20832139
>as far as the «Italian» Athenaze goes, you should be getting pretty much everything all the way to duals and at least some basics of Ionic forms, I don't know about the english one
Does it contain excerpts of adapted texts towards the end or only stuff written by the author?

>>20832139
thanks, anon, yes I will use the Italian one

>>20832154
We pressed send at the same time, give me a break.

>>20832155
it contains both small partly adapted excerpts of various authors throughout the chapters(adapted to the level reached by that chapter) as well as a last chapter which is sections straight up from the Acharnians by Aristophanes

nerd general lol

>>20832119
Because it isnt meant to have grammar but the author is so braindead he doesn't understand his own method

>>20831937
It's not that people like him and I hate Latin. This my first post in this thread btw. It's that we hate retards who shit up good threads. Posters look cool, right? There are vintage ones, new ones, and they have tons of different styles. If this was an art thread and nearly everyone was happy to discuss posters and did it to the detriment of painting and sculpture, you'd be a pretty unhappy art aficionado.
For the brainlets, Latin is the posters and Greek + etc. is paintings, sculpture, photography.

>>20830120
>>20830721
I know Hebrew and Aramaic, but I don't want to translate that page. I'm the guy who asked what you needed it for. I just have other things to do that are more worthwhile. Maybe, that page could be read in a breeze by someone else, but for me, that would take a good chunk of time. You'll probably have offer money as a reward if you want it translated, or you could mow some rabbi's lawn.

LATIN ANONS
is there any library or zip file with the most essential of Latin authors in good editions (or at least decent ones)? Like the extant works of Ovid, Virgil, Cicero, Lucretius, Plautus etc.? Or do I have to hunt them down one by one on archive.org?
picture not related

>φησὶ ἑλληνιστὶ λαλεῖν
>οὐ λαλεῖ ἑλληνιστὶ
τί ἔλεγε διὰ τούτου ὁ ἀνώνυμος;

>>20831178
if you don't mind reading the bible, the Vulgate is written in a latin that feels like wikipedia's simplified english. plus there are many translations if you want to check the meaning.

>>20832402
This contains all Neo-Latin with much of it being better than many works of Natives.
https://philological.cal.bham.ac.uk/library.html

>>20832402
try thelatinlibrary.com, but I don't know if those count as good editions

Interesting how the Latin wiki page about the Homeric dialect is maybe one of the most complete pages of the major languages available for the page, kudos to the author, seems mostly one guy.
https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_Homerica

>>20832758
Looks amazing.

Are there any major texts actually worth reading in Greek that haven't been translated into English yet?

Until a few decades ago I could've pointed to the Magical Papyri, but now?

>>20832402
have you checked the Mega archive in the OP?

>>20830120
>I need it because I'm writing a book where I indirectly talk about the content of that page.
is it an anti-Jewish book?

>>20832540
pos sou gamane ti mana giftoi
xa0x0a0x0xa0xa

>>20830120
there are several published translations of the Book of Raziel, what makes you think some random anon on here could do a better job?

>>20832758
>the most complete pages of the major languages available for the page
???

>>20833138
I mean compared to the same page in e.g english, italian, german, greek, spanish, etc...
usually it's the Latin one which is the bare bone, if it exists at all

>>20831639
>saltim hoc latine fac, aut tace.
This is a strange sentence, there's no need to refer back to the protasis (si iniuriam facere vis) with "hoc". I would say "aut saltim latine fac aut tace".

>autem cur
Autem is always postpositive, this should be "cur autem".

>>20833146
>>20832758
>Someone who cares about ancient poetry knows Latin
I am SHOCKED

>>20832833
There's literally millions of untranslated papyri fragments, but a big chunk of it is just merchants writing how many barrels of wine they have, legal proceedings from random criminal trials, monks jotting down the same prayer a hundred times...

>>20832752
thanks, I found that website before asking, and while I appreciate its existence, the formatting (text broken up into chapters on different pages) is really bad for archival purposes...
>>20832591
this is a good idea, especially since we can compare the translations from the Vulgate (like King James)
>>20832842
of course not, I am a normie
but that is a great library for professionals, I am a beginning and was looking for a compact collection of "mandatory" texts which I can chew like a dog on those Roman vases...

btw if I may contribute with some Petrarca
1501 Librorum Francisci Petrarche Vol 1
https://archive.org/details/gri_33125008466035/
1501 Librorum Francisci Petrarche Vol 2
https://archive.org/details/gri_33125008466092/
1570 edition of Petrarcha's Africa, in Latin and Italian parallel
https://archive.org/details/ita-bnc-mag-00000675-001/
1872 and 1874 editions of Petrarcha's Africa, the second one looks better but the font is annoying... the first one looks worse but has annoying yellowed pages so venenum eligo tuum

also I just found this, thought to share it as it's kind of fun (in a paranoid fashion): https://archive.org/details/CaesarsMessiahTheRomanConspiracyToInventJesus_201812/

>>20832661
oh, forgot to reply to you... that is an interesting collection, but maybe a bit too colored by the teachers' interests...

>>20833383
>1872 and 1874 editions of Petrarcha's Africa
forgot the links sorry... but you can probably find them by searching petrarca africa and the date

thread truly dies during am*rican hours

>>20834178
We are only interested in arguing over nonsense.

>>20831601
>that would be impossible without a Roman mother born in a Latin-speaking Rome
see Montaigne

>>20827108
this but unironically
ugaritic narrative poetry is quite exciting, especially for people interested in ANE literature and the old testament

>>20831601
>fist of all, the female orgasm is a fake orgasm, a somatization of hysteria
LMAO no

我欲知多人何不習古文也、人人云「用之至艱乎」、而其語法易學哉

Does anyone know how to make a program that would handle transliteration? I'm considering making a modification to a Ge'ez dictionary that would make it very easy to search. I propose adding a consonantal Latin character transliteration next to each entry so that it could be searched with Ctrl + F. Obviously, something more robust, like Logeion, would be preferred, but I don't have those skills or the great sum of money to make that happen. Any tips on automating the process as much as possible would also be appreciated. Obviously, there is an issue of securing the rights to do such a project so that my name could be attached to it. If anyone knows how much the copyright of a 30 year old dictionary by a dead man for a relatively obscure language would cost, that information would also be appreciated. I think I would do it regardless, but I'd just like to know if I could buy it.
I just found this with Google as an example of what I'm looking for.
https://www.alittlehebrew.com/transliterate/
t. Ethiopianon

classical latin pronunciation is fucking hideous

>>20835089
I think the problem is all the stuff you have to infer from context.

>>20831958
I just got here and I'm beginning to study Greek, so you have at least one buddy if you want one.

>>20835133
How long have you been studying Latin for? Do you realize that classical pronunciation was invented by Italians in the Renaissance? It is based on what they thought the Romans would have sounded like. I prefer it to ecclesiastical pronunciation, but I realize that it isn't entirely perfect and we won't get something perfect without a time machine. Plus, Latin would have sounded different depending on the time and place.

>>20835133
You don't like weni, widi, wici or Kickero?

>>20835133
nolite bestias alere

>>20827030
>>20827024
clg stops sitting on its ass and sits its asses to translate best athenaze into english

>>20827872
and yet llpsi and low effort posting is still all the rage in these threads. ive been gone for months and these threads are still pathetically mediocre

>>20835107
at least ethiopanon is still around to add variety. roughly where in america are you again ethiopanon? dont have to say exactly where

>>20835606
What's wrong with the English version?

>>20835824
the italian version comes from the english version. the english version came first but some italian guy wanted athenaze to be more like LLPSI so he made his own version with illustrations etc

I don’t think a single competent latin speaker frequents this general.

>>20835991
Nobody here speaks any classical language competently. Most don't even speak English competently.

>>20833372
where to find them? Have they been digitized?

>>20835089
>>20835089
>The Hanyu Da Zidian, provides twenty meanings for de 德, translatable as
>Rise, go up, climb, ascend. [升; 登.]
>Morals, morality, virtue, personal conduct, moral integrity, honor. [道德, 品行, 节操.]
>Denoting a wise/enlightened person with moral character. [指有道德的贤明之人.]
>Kindness, favor, grace, graciousness. [恩惠, 恩德.]
>Grateful, gratefulness, thankful, indebted. [感恩, 感激.]
>Benevolent rule, good government, good instruction. [德政, 善教.]
>Objective regulations/rules. [客观规律.]
>Quality, nature, basic character, characteristics, attribute. [性质; 属性.]
>Intention, purpose, heart, mind. For example: "Be of one heart and mind". [心意. 如:一心一德.]
>In Five Phases theory, a reference to seasonally productive energy/air. [五行说指四季的旺气.]
>First growth, initial stage, beginning of something. [始生; 事物的开始.]
>A phoenix-head pattern/decoration. [凤凰头上的花纹.]
>Blessings, good fortune, happiness, resulting from benevolent actions. [福, 善庆的事.]
>Used for zhí "straight, just". [通 "直(zhí)".]
>Used for zhí "to plant, grow, establish". Plant a tree. [通 "植(zhí)". 立木.]
>Used for "get, obtain, result in". [通 "得".]
>A national name. An abbreviation for the Republic of Germany during World War II. [国名. 第二次世界大战结束前的德意志联邦的简称.]
>A star name. [星名.]
>A river name. Another name for the Yellow River. [水名. 黄河之别名.]
>A surname. [姓.]
anon we "ignorant westerners" use language to transmit knowledge too, not only to speculate on meanings of poetry...

>>20832886
lol xddddddddddddddddXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

>>20835991
Most people learn Latin today to read, not to speak it.

which book of the New Testament has the easiest greek?

>>20836042
>Most don't even speak English competently.
It's not my fault if English syntax is completely schizophrenic.
>nooooo flexion bad let's have thousands of rules about word order and verb combination instead

>>20831701
For real? I've heard that Oedipus Rex is on the harder side of Greek tragedy.

>>20835851
It's not just the illustrations but the fact that they extended every chapter quite a bit, so you have more reading material. Also the quality of the added texts is much higher than the original.

>>20830946
MEGA anon here. Have Italian Athenaze on the to-do list along with D'Ooge and 5 gigs or so of other files to upload.
Apologies for the late update, I got busy with work and life and wasn't able to do the big update I had planned by the end of July. Will do smaller updates periodically from now on out. I will make the update log as accurate as I can to make updated downloading easier for those who already have the archive.
If you don't want to wait for the Mega z-lib and libgen have plenty of books.

>>20836395
No need to apologize, thanks for all you have already done.

>>20836063
Oxford has a pretty big collection
http://www.papyrology.ox.ac.uk

>>20836106
if you can show me a place that has all the books in plain text files (NOT .pdf's with a bunch of other shit, or each chapter on a separate website) I could write a program that does some textual analysis on the vocab and grammar used.
I used to do that with Japanese visual novels to decide which Kanji I'd have to learn beforehand so I could read it without looking up shit all the time.

Now that I think of it, this kind of thing has probably already been done by somebody for the entire corpus of ancient Greek literature.

αἰθίοπας μισῶ

im >>20830120 anon

>>20830721
the translation is absolutely abysmal and it isnt of this manuscript.
>>20832398
ok
>>20832866
more or less.
>>20833027
no, there is only one translation of the scottish manuscript. i need the amsterdam manuscript.

>>20836832
Have you tried transcribing it and throwing it into g*ogle translator?

>>20836887
how to, anon? it's an extremely bad scan, very stretched and with a font that I dont understand when it's a samekh, a teit or a mem. It would be too risky for me to try and rewrite it on my own.
you gave an idea, anon.
Can someone rewrite that page for me?
I may even try to use google translate.

>>20836950
>Can someone rewrite that page for me?
No.

>>20836950
>asking again for someone to do all the work for him like a little bitch instead of trying some OCR software

>>20835633
I live in the Midwest. I go to a Big Ten school and live in the town as a permanent resident. I will graduate this fall.

>>20836075
You are Esperanto tranny, right?

>>20836950
Wow! You have trouble reading a slightly distorted print book. Just wait till you see a manuscript. Like I said before, no one here wants to do this for free. You are too lazy to do the work yourself, so why would any of us help?

>>20836075
ok i take it back posting this is legitimately interesting and impressive. if you are a tranny, exit the game, but if youre not, thats a legit post.

>>20837169
I opened the manuscript out of curiosity and I could simply select and copy the text. That guy must be just some sort of troll.

>>20837193
>I could simply select and copy the text
try actually pasting it and you'll see that you copied the results of VERY imprecise OCR that got more letters wrong than it gets right.

>>20836106
Mark, by far. Paul's letters aren't that bad either.

>>20832076
if you use the Italian Athenaze (which you absolutely should, because the text Miraglia added is very important for drilling the forms in actual context) you should also get the Meletemata exercise books. They are even better than the LLPSI exercise books imo. If you don't understand Italian you will have to use the grammar explanations from the English edition or alternatively you can use a grammar like Smyth. I have been wanting to put together a list of the corresponding Smyth chapters for each Athenaze chapter's grammar section, but maybe someone on the Internet has already done it.

>>20837447
>I have been wanting to put together a list of the corresponding Smyth chapters for each Athenaze chapter's grammar section
You should absolutely do that.

>>20835991
Are there any competent (Ancient) Greek speakers here, however?

>>20838391
he(???) can't even read Latin let alone judge ancient Greek speakers, he's the local clown butthurt because he got filtered by Latin hard

>>20826971
Greek anons w/ some linguistics background, I need your help. I'm a retard, but I have this nagging question. Is it possible for
>μέθεσις
to change into
>μέθεξις
with some kind of consonant change over time? I'm trying to see if I can find any indication of the etymology of this word.

>>20836736
/pol/ >>>>

>>20838585
μέθεξις is from μετέχω and μέθεσις from μεθίημι (μετά+ἵημι, probably), so they are unrelated.

>>20837137
Nope, that's not me.

I learned Greek with the Reading Greek series, which is pretty dope I think, and then started reading actual texts with the help of the books on geoffreysteadman.com, which has most of the Odyssey, some of the Iliad, lots of Plato, Herodotus and Xenophon in Greek text with dictionary + grammatical commentary for easier reading. Reading Homer in particular has been a very, very rewarding experience, if u stare at the text long enough you start to realize that there's something happening re rhythm or sound in almost every passage, and it's all so packed with meaning you just want to tell the world about it.

>>20838607
Wow. That was incredibly helpful. Thank you!
>μέθεσις
is that even a real word? I just made that up.

>>20838679

>>20838678
That's nice. I need to get into Greek poetry and Homer is probably the best place to start. Apparently Sappho isn't too bad either.

>>20838678
https://hypotactic.com/latin/index.html?Use_Id=iliad1 this site has many poems fully scanned.

>>20838748
thanks! in particular re Pindar and Aeschylus this should be invaluable.

>>20838686
Two lasts question. How would you define:
>μετέχω
And what value could I gain from splitting it into its roots, μετ + έχω, and seeing possible meanings?

>>20839192
μετά here has to do with doing toghete, participating (which is its usual meaning), έχω - to hold, have (also its usual meaning), probably.

>>20839192
The philosophical use was mainly derived from the Pythagoreans who used it to talk about how multiple units of a set of concrete entities "shared in" their common property (number).

This is why Aristotle criticizes them for being relatively shallow and superficial in describing which things are structured by (i.e. participate, share in) which numbers. Because they'd just find arbitrary numberings and harmonies everywhere and say all those things are alike in deriving from from twoness. But they did not hypostatize "number" in our sense, as an Arabic numeral set up as an "idea" over and against concrete multiplicities. All numbers were for them concrete multiples of things. They didn't have hypostatic numeral-ideas, we do only as a function of later developments.

All this is in Klein's Greek Mathematical Thought. If you want to understand the Platonic participation concept you need to understand the Greek "natural" ontology he describes in Husserlian phenomenological terms.

>>20839257
>But they did not hypostatize "number" in our sense, as an Arabic numeral set up as an "idea" over and against concrete multiplicities. All numbers were for them concrete multiples of things. They didn't have hypostatic numeral-ideas, we do only as a function of later developments.
As in, they didn't understand the power of abstraction and had only tapped into one vein of it to understand the surrounding world? I'm trying to understand the Pythagorean mindset.
>All this is in Klein's Greek Mathematical Thought. If you want to understand the Platonic participation concept you need to understand the Greek "natural" ontology he describes in Husserlian phenomenological terms.
Second time I saw this today. I'll begin reading it. Thank you anon.

Megaman, some guy was looking for a French translation of the Iliad. Someone in that thread recommended The Iliad of Homer: A Parsed Interlinear Text. It's on Z-Library, but only accessible through TOR. I am really interested in this text, so I went through the whole process of downloading it. The file is legit. I highly recommend uploading it to the Mega.
You might not want to go through all that hassle. No worries; I'm Ethiopianon. Do you want me to upload it to the ANE Mega so that you can download it and put it in the Greek and Latin Mega?

>>20839636
I am uploading it to the ANE Mega because I want to read it on a different computer tonight. I will leave it up until Megaman uploads it to the Greek and Latin Mega.

>>20839257
>Aristotle criticizes them for being relatively shallow and superficial in describing which things are structured
god I fucking hate that guy

>>20839636
>The Iliad of Homer: A Parsed Interlinear Text
Is that the picture you posted?

Where is the pdf for what you posted

>>20839934
Just in the main ANE folder. You should be able to see it immediately.

>>20839925
seethe more you filthy beaner

I unironically ordered a copy of Athenaze (Italian) because I'm sick of reading on screen. See ya in 5 days, virgins.

>>20840271
>I unironically ordered
You can barely use English properly, so don't get your hopes up for Greek, kid.

>>20840386
I'm a native

>Quod condiciones pacis petunt, nuntiandum est.

The lesson is about clauses of fact using quod so I translated the first half as 'The fact that they seek pacts/terms of peace'. Would the second half be a passive periphrastic for 'must/ought to be announced'?

maximum concordiae vinculum non externus timor sed coitus cum viris est

>>20841068
yes

>>20840271
>>20840624
>I unironically ordered
As opposed to ironically ordering

>>20840386
>>20841737
shaking, red in the face, piss streaming down his leg because of internet slang. pathetic, unironically

>>20839636
If you're looking for more interlinear translations, there's also the Bible:
https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htm

https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

>>20841885
That's cool. I already use STEP, but I will check that out. It could be a good alternative.

>search for Iliad versions on libgen
>apparently someone made a version in boustrophedic Attic script closest to those that existed in the pre classic period
wew lad

>>20839257
>>20839288
bump for attention

inter nos

>>20841361
Thanks Anon.

>>20841885
>>20841972
You can also get the whole thing on Youtibe with Modern Greek pronunciation:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9avtaktsn-lPi_nTUqF9jpoadX_0Mm6h

I find it striking how much more poetic the Hebrew Bible sounds, with perhaps the exception of the Gospel of John:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9avtaktsn-mp409Af5MH-O36IEyqe4Ns

>>20842068
ἐντὸς ἡμῶν

Iratus cum videam vocabulum quod non intellego.

>>20842474
You will never be a real Roman

NUMQUAMESTTUFEMINA

>>20842490
no one will ever be a real roman. they're italians now. YOU will NEVER be able to read latin though. hahahahahaahah.

>>20842520
You will never be able to hurt my feelings. Nice try though bully.

>>20827066
It's really bad and I hear that from Greek classicists so see some truth in it desu lad

>Casually reading Seneca for practice as a Prof at Uni recommended him for my level
>It's alright, I have to check some vocab but I got the grammar down fr fr no cap so bussin
>He's now saying maybe we should kill ourselves at some point

Unironically based

>>20842571
Epistula 70 if anons were interested

>>20842571
>>20842578
how did you learn latin?

>>20842581
Why? I learnt at school and then uni anon.

>>20842585
which books did you use?

>>20842593
OCR at school, then Reading Latin at uni. Standard for my country

>>20842571
>spatium redditum

>>20842600
No you

>>20842598
>Reading Latin at uni
by Jones and Sidwell?

>>20842645
Yeah it is good, I know of friends in America that use it at uni too.

>>20842647
Thanks.

I was thinking about homoousious the Greek term for "Same-Being" I then tried to latinise it to be cosubstantialis and it turns out its a real term
What a world

Are they any websites that test your syntax, spelling, and grammar in a language?

>>20842742
https://www.latintests.net/grammar/

I'm completely burnt out with Latin. I just can't seem to make progress at all. I'm close to giving up.

>>20842789
How about syntax? And other languages? I feel like this is an untapped niche. Too bad I don't know how to code.

>>20842810
Quod legis?

>>20842857
*legas

>>20842884
Cur in subiunctivo?

>>20842810
Good. It's not for you.

What is the most efficient way to learn Latin for someone who is college educated, not schizo, and working a 9-5?

>>20842916
LLpSI

>>20842810
why not just read whatever texts you find interesting? Surely there is something that made you learn Latin in the first place?
Fuck learning about grammar. I know jack shit about English, German and Spanish grammar, yet I can read just about anything written in these languages.

>>20842929
Everything is either too easy or too difficult. I can't find anything at my level to read.

>>20842931
you clearly have a warped perception of easy and difficult

>>20842936
Why do you say that?

καὶ νῦν ὧδέ εἰμι ὁρῶν ὑμᾶς τοὺς ἀχρειοτάτους δοξοσόφους τὰ μὲν αὑτῶν ἐπὶ πᾶν αὔξοντας, οὐ μὴν δυναμένους ἐμβλέπειν εἰς τὴν ὑμῶν αὐτῶν ψυχὴν μεστὴν οὖσαν πάσης ὑπερηφανίας τε καὶ σοβαρότητος. οὐδέποτε οἷοί τ' ἐστὲ ὀρθῶς ἑλληνιστὶ ἢ λατινιστὶ λαλεῖν, οὐδέποτε ὡς οἱ Ῥωμαίοι εἰς ἰσχυ]ν ἐπιδώσετε. ἀνέλετε ὑμᾶς αὐτοῦς ἡμῖν καὶ παντὶ τῷ τῶν ἀνθρώπων γένει χαριζόμενοι.

>>20842931
well what's your level then? with all the Latin stuff available that's kind of a silly statement

>>20842936
>>20842980
What I mean by too easy or too difficult is pic related. The green highlighted books are books I've read and found easy. The books highlighted in pink are books I'm reading currently but I'm finding them quite difficult. I'm reading and re-reading but really only fully understanding maybe 30-50% at any given time which is abysmal because with the other books (highlighted in green) I was understanding 95% and breezing through them.

>>20842916
duolingo is popular with normie scum

>>20843005
Doesn't it also suck though?

>>20842984
mmh "Sermones Romani" seems to include authors quite more challenging than e.g Caesar(though I'm not sure if it's sections, selected works or whatever), have you tried De Bello Gallico yet? it's kinda standard babby's first real Latin

>>20842984
Ritchies' Fabulae are maybe right for you: harder than the green ones, but still a little easier than the red pink ones, and a good preparation for Caesar.
https://geoffreysteadman.com/ritchies-fabulae-faciles/

>>20843009
yes but you can earn GBP and hear sound effects to feel like you're learning

>>20843013
I was going to try De Bello Gallico after these 2. I'm gonna try to stick it out with these and keep re-reading. I'm sleep deprived too because there's a heatwave in my country and I can't sleep at night.
>>20843021
I've read that book twice. I didn't have difficulty with it. Thanks for the help.

>on the penultimate lesson of my Latin grammar primer

What next? I switched to grammar because I stalled hard on LLPSI chapter 12 but i'm thinking of going back to it now I have a better idea whats going on grammar/vocab wise. After that I have a book with a lots of Latin letters, poetic extracts and selections from the Gallic War.

>>20843364
yeah, keep going with LLPSI

>>20843364
>I switched to grammar because I stalled hard on LLPSI chapter 12
You won't get far with LLPSI if you haven't memorized the paradigms by rote and you don't read the lessons at least twice out loud.

>>20836395
>5 gigs or so of other files to upload.
Oh boy, what are you planning to add?

Let's see the /r/Latin editorial stance on Wheelock's and LLPSI:
>A few years ago, I became much more active in online Latin spaces. As such, I've seen a lot of people asking how to learn Latin on their own or how to improve their Latin proficiency by stepping outside the traditionalist approaches that still permeate Classics, mainly grammar-translation. On the Latin subreddit, we often recommend LLPSI (Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata: Familia Romana by Hans Ørberg) to many people, but without saying too much beyond giving them the title of the book or offering any other support. In order to help support these learners, a couple weeks ago I began to develop a Discord server centered on LLPSI, extensive reading and listening, and communicative Latin. (Learning about Latin grammar if you need or want to at the same time? Great, plenty of resources for that--but please understand, especially if you are a beginner, learning about grammar from a book like Wheelock's does not lead to language acquisition. On the LLPSI server, you'll find the types of resources you'll need for learning to think in Latin and to build up some reading proficiency--actual reading, not translating.)
https://www.reddit.com/r/latin/comments/ezf0zg/the_answer_to_how_do_i_start_learning_latin_a_new/

>>20843698
/clg/ absolutely outclassed by redditors

I wish I could read other Greek texts like Aesop's fables with such a neat interface.

is there a specific name for this kind of Greek typeface?

>>20843917
EB Garamon,

>>20843934
Garamond's Grecs du roi font is a bit too busy for me, with all those fancy ligatures and whatnot

>>20844009

Greek bros, I need a hand. been set some work by lecturers who were on strike the entire year and I don't know shit

third person plural present indicative of δίδωμι
dative plural of μικρὰ κόρη
third person singular aorist indicative of ἔρχομαι
comparative form of ταχύς
neuter accusative plural form of indefinite relative pronoun ὅστις

>>20827005
>LLPSI
What?

>>20839257
>>20839288
Hey man, could you tell me more about Klein's Greek Mathematical Thought please? I've been deeply engrossed into Biblical study lately and I'm running out of time before I have to cease all this stuff.

>>20844182
I mean all of these can be looked up on Wiktionary if you want to auto-correct yourself doing exercises
διδόᾱσι(ν)
μικραῖς κόραις
ἦλθε(ν)
ταχύτερος/ταχίων
ἅτινα

>>20844269
the comparative for ταχύς is θάττων

>>20844285
a third alternative, yes

>>20844182
>dative plural of μικρὰ κόρη
>comparative form of ταχύς
damn you are fucked my guy

>>20844301
i know, i uhh didnt get any lectures

>>20844269
didnt even know wiktionary existed until you said it, thanks

Could someone translate passage in Greek for me?

>>20844740
I mean you can post it anyway and if it's not too long or hard work someone might chime in

If anyone could help I'd appreciate it and pay you in TF2 items

>>20844831
Οἱ δὲ Θηβαῖοι εὐθὺς μὲν μετὰ τὴν μάχην ἔπεμψαν εἰς Ἀθήνας ἄγγελον ἐστεφανωμένον, καὶ
ἅμα μὲν τῆς νίκης τὸ μέγεθος ἔφραζον, ἅμα δὲ βοηθεῖν ἐκέλευον, λέγοντες ὡς νῦν ἐξείη
Λακεδαιμονίους πάντων ὧν ἐπεποιήκεσαν αὐτοὺς τιμωρήσασθαι. τῶν δὲ Ἀθηναίων ἡ βουλὴ
ἐτύγχανεν ἐν ἀκροπόλει καθημένη. ἐπεὶ δ᾿ ἤκουσαν τὸ γεγενημένον, ὅτι μὲν σφόδρα
ἠνιάθησαν πᾶσι δῆλον ἐγένετο· οὔτε γὰρ ἐπὶ ξένια τὸν κήρυκα ἐκάλεσαν, περί τε τῆς
βοηθείας οὐδὲν ἀπεκρίναντο. καὶ Ἀθήνηθεν μὲν οὕτως ἀπῆλθεν ὁ κῆρυξ. πρὸς μέντοι
Ἰάσονα, σύμμαχον ὄντα, ἔπεμπον σπουδῇ οἱ Θηβαῖοι, κελεύοντες βοηθεῖν, διαλογιζόμενοι
πῇ τὸ μέλλον ἀποβήσοιτο

>>20844909
something something...
>The Thebans after the battle immediately sent a decorated(?) messenger to Athens, and at the same time reported the greatness of the victory as well as asked for help, saying that the time had come to take revenge on the Lacedaemonians for all they had done. The council in Athens happened to take place in the citadel; after they heard what happened, it was made very clear to everyone how distressed they were: neither they received the messenger with proper hospitality, neither they replied anything regarding the aid. The messenger then departed like so from Athens. Thus the Thebans swiftly sought for Jason(?), their ally, asking for help, discussing which outcome would be more likely to come forth.

>>20844988
wow, thanks man, how long did that take you? I'll give you a TF2 hat

Μετὰ ταῦτα Πισιδῶν τε τοὺς ἀντιστάντας ᾕρει καὶ Φρυγίαν ἐχειροῦτο· καὶ Γόρδιον πόλιν, ἑστίαν
Μίδου τοῦ παλαιοῦ γενέσθαι λεγομένην, παραλαβών, τὴν θρυλουμένην ἅμαξαν εἶδε, φλοιῷ
κρανείας ἐνδεδεμένην, καὶ λόγον ἐπ' αὐτῇ πιστευόμενον ὑπὸ τῶν βαρβάρων ἤκουσεν, ὡς τῷ
λύσαντι τὸν δεσμὸν εἵμαρται βασιλεῖ γενέσθαι τῆς οἰκουμένης. οἱ μὲν οὖν πολλοί φασι, τῶν
δεσμῶν τυφλὰς ἐχόντων τὰς ἀρχὰς καὶ δι' ἀλλήλων πολλάκις σκολιοῖς ἑλιγμοῖς ὑποφερομένων,
τὸν Ἀλέξανδρον ἀμηχανοῦντα λῦσαι, διατεμεῖν τῇ μαχαίρᾳ τὸ σύναμμα, καὶ πολλὰς ἐξ αὐτοῦ
κοπέντος ἀρχὰς φανῆναι. Ἀριστόβουλος δὲ καὶ πάνυ λέγει ῥᾳδίαν αὐτῷ γενέσθαι τὴν λύσιν,
ἐξελόντι τοῦ ῥυμοῦ τὸν ἕστορα καλούμενον, ᾧ συνείχετο τὸ ζυγόδεσμον, εἶθ' οὕτως ὑφελκύσαντι
τὸν ζυγόν.

Anyone here good at or know how to translate English into Attic? I can translate Attic to English fine but find it too hard to do English to Attic

Niger sum, nihil tuum alienum puto

Now that the dust has settled, was it kino?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4nx6A6tVos

https://philologicalcrocodile.wordpress.com/2022/08/15/how-to-learn-latin-well/

Here's one guy opinion on how to learn Latin. Let me summarize the points as such:

> Learn from any textbook with good grammatical explanations. Any is fine.
> … except for the Cambridge Latin Series, such is absolute garbage made to milk school districts with their five volume series.
> Remember that no textbook is going to give you the vocabulary (they give you ~500 words, while you need ~1200 to start reading comfortably), or the reading exercises.
> Writing out grammatical paradigms (i.e. of the noun and adjective declensions, or the verb conjugations) is also good exercise. Remember to learn nouns, adjectives and verbs by their principle parts.
> You now need some reading exercises. You could use either various old readers now in the public domain and free on the Internet or Ørberg's Lingua Latina per se Illustrata. Remember to do all the end of chapter exercises of the later, and read some of the readers if you find Roma Aeterna too difficult.
> After finishing the textbook and those readers, start with the easiest Latin literature. Steadman's readers, or the in usam delphini series are good places to start. Ceasar's Gaulic Wars was the traditional starting point for a reason. Nepos' Life of Pomponius Atticus is good, as is his Hanibal and Cato. Finally, you could move on to Cicero, either pro Caelio or the Catilinarians.

Seems pretty typical advice in the modern era. Did you think this is a good plan or not?

>>20845990
Yes
>there is far, far, too much talking about doing and not enough actual doing
This should be the subtitle of every /clg/ thread

>>20831701
Reading antigone right now, definetly not for beginners

>>20845959
mildly amusing I guess

I do like how this guy's Latin pronunciation sounds like

>>20846096
I read Antigone in my native language and had problems getting through it, in part because the translation used very obscure vocabulary and grammatical constructs, and in part because it's just boring as shit.

I would post here more but they keep banning me :(
I am back now though and looking forward to engaging in some quality discussion about classical languages.

>>20846457
>in my native language
stopped reading right there

>>20839636
>>20839757
Thank you, will upload it within a few days

>>20845130
not much, had to look up only a few words, I'm a learner myself, don't worry

>>20844909
where is this from?

If I want to learn Modern and Classical Greek, what's the best way around to do it??

>>20847072
If you are interested in both I would recommend you to start with modern Greek. This channel has a few videos on the relationship between ancient and modern Greek.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AelM2zyv5Us

Classical Chinese anons, tell me

臣欲棄不善以治民
is translated in textbook as:
I [your minister] wish to cast aside evil in order to govern the people.
why "in order to..." and not "by governing the people." How can I tell how to translate 以? Like it's not a trifling difference it'd change the whole meaning.

Euros, please add life to this thread.

>>20847895
sorry, spent the whole day studying

>>20847072
Do modern Greek first. It's easier and a wonderful language in itself.

>>20847895
I read the introduction to Wheelock's about 3 weeks ago and haven't done anything since. I don't think I have much to add anon

How big is the Hittite corpus? Is it even worth dabbling in for the non-specialist?

>>20839257
>Klein
>>20839288
bump

>>20847895
>>20847895
Ego sum in Europaaaaaaaaaa

>>20847379
if you had shown that to me without the textbook translation, I would've translated it as "...wish to govern in a way that gets rid of immorality"

note: I can read Japanese fluently, but have only dabbled in classical chinese

>>20848497
how long did it take to learn japanese? how did you learn it? what's your native lang? how old are you?

>>20848526
>how long did it take to learn japanese?
Took about a year until I was able to comfortably understand stuff like video games, technical manuals, manga, and your average shonen/shojo anime. I was also talking to people on 2ch by then.
As for novels and more serious articles on stuff like politics, history etc., about 2 years.
>how did you learn it?
AJATT, basically. Learned 漢字 using Heisig, then read a shit load of manga etc. while listening to Japanese as much as possible.
>what's your native lang?
ελληνιστική κοινή
>how old are you?
ΧΞϚ

>>20848584
that's quite amazing actually. it's always been my dream to learn moonrunes. thanks for answering my questions.

>>20848584
>Heisig
using Heisig right now, let's see if I'll be able to finish it.

>>20847379
Generally, before a noun 以 means 'by means of' but before a verb phrase it means 'in order to'. It's as if it's short for 以之 'by means of it, thereby'; you generally always see just 以 where you'd expect 以之. If you're interested in Classical Chinese, I recommend this server (permalink):
https://discord.gg/e8hZWnNTCv

I want to learn just enough Greek to read Plato and Aristotle. Is it worth it? I've heard you get a fuller grasp of their ideas, is Athenaze enough for this purpose?

what gender is the interrogative pronoun quis supposed to be in when there's no context for it in Latin? Eg. in the sentence "whom have you overcome?" is it quem or quam or quod superāvistī?

>>20850745
i dont know greek but reading Aristotle is difficult enough in english that I could only imagine you'd need complete fluency in greek just to be able to grasp his ideas

im this >>20836950 anon
>>20836965
i dont think you would be able to do it, anon, even if you wanted
>>20837083
on a fucking manuscript, anon?
are you retarded?
>>20837169
>Just wait till you see a manuscript.
it is a manuscript, you dumb fuck. dont even give me a (you) if you are lazy to even open it up.
>why would any of us help?
i dont know, anon. maybe because this is a general about people LEARNING about languages? you know how to learn ancient languages, anon? by practice. and ancient books, especially in medieval jewish, are a little bit difficult to come across on the internet.
did i get tricked again? just like on /lit/ noone read, on /clg/ noone studies ancient languages?
>>20832398
>you could mow some rabbi's lawn.
i live in italy, we dont have jews in here.

>>20851355
>i dont think you would be able to do it, anon, even if you wanted
i dont think you would be able to do it, anon, even if you wanted to*
>LEARNING about languages
LEARNING languages*
>just like on /lit/ noone read
just like on /lit/ no one reads*

>>20850745
Athenaze includes a short passage from Plato's Protagoras, but overall his Greek is quite different from the style of Athenaze so it takes some time to get used to. Still, it is completely manageable to immediately start with Plato after you are finished with your textbook. That's what I did as well.
As for Aristotle it might be smart to ease into him with an easy post-aristotelian text such as Demetrius' Περὶ Ἑρμηνείας.
>>20851346
Part of his difficulty comes from the troubles of translating him. Understanding Aristotle becomes easier when you have access to his vocabulary in Greek.

>>20851355
>i dont think you would be able to do it, anon, even if you wanted
why do you act this smug when you yourself wanted someone to do the dirty work for you? why don't you do it if you are capable?
>people LEARNING about languages
>about

> I think that the enemy will go forth from our territories because they have not enough food.

"Puto hostes, ex nostris finibus egrediantur quod non satis cibi habeant."

Did I get the sequence of tenses right?

>>20851560
Why don't you just... Memorise the sequence.
Why are /clg/oids terrified of rote?

today I shall memorise the declension tables

>>20851685
>Bro you NEED to use rote memorisation
i used anki to lear...
>NOOO YOU CAN'T DO THAT

>>20851698
who are you quoting?

>>20851708
my bad. didn't mean to reply to that post and 4chan doesn't let you to delete posts immediately.

>>20851560
I can't tell if it's correct or not but, why not using the future and the present of indicative?
>egredientur
>habent
also "cibi" should be accusative, no?
I'll try too:
>Puto hostes ex nostris finibus egressuros esse quod non satis cibum/cibos habent

>>20851818
Because the grammar says verbs in subordinate clauses are in the subjunctive which brings in the sequence of tenses stuff.

>>20852008
that's not always the case, you can have conditionals with indicative, for example

καινή
>>20852042
>>20852042
>>20852042