/lit/ - Literature

Werner Sombart

He has a condensed critique of Marxism in German Socialism but the existing English translation is kinda shit

>>20817069
Attention baristas:
You will never be proletarian

>>20817069
You should try filling out a job application. You know, the one thing Marx should have done before he wrote capital.

>>20817069
>What books should I read if I want to understand contemporary capitalism?
Economics In One Lesson by Harry Hazlitt and Basic Economics by Sowell.

>>20817069
Werner Sombart

>>20817069
>This industrial worker vs bourgeois looks outdated.
Now it's worker vs capitalist. Same thing pretty much. Even worse maybe. Workers outside of factories are more isolated from each other. It's harder to organize a strong workers union. Start with some basics: Marx, Luxemburg, Lenin, Gramsci.

>>20817069
>I don't know anyone who works in a factory
Yet you buy things made in factories... strange

>>20818204
I eat food too and I don't think 80 percent of the population is employed in agriculture

>>20817069
Protocols of Zion

>>20817109
So what? I did a construction job this summer to make some extra money before uni starts and it was absolute slavery. 8 hours every day, doing meaningless menial bullshit, with 1 hour of unpaid break (half of which consists of walking to the lunch area). And all of these people working hard just to make some guy rich who claims that he “owns” the company but does no labour for it. Before I took this job, I used to be a capitalist, but now seeing the abject slavery people have to live through all of their lives in order to make some useless parasites rich, I realised that the system we are living under is an absolute dystopia. Marx didn’t have to work, and if he did, it would just confirm what he already believed. There is nothing “manly”, “noble”, or pleasant about being a worker. It is slavery. And as long as the workers refuse to rise up and chop off the parasite’s heads, they are abject slaves who love their own chains.
So yeah, this myth about “communists don’t work; they’re just rich kids” is a myth. As soon as I worked I became a communist.

>>20817069
>What books should I read if I want to understand contemporary capitalism?
Your pic related.
>This industrial worker vs bourgeois looks outdated (I don't know anyone who works in a factory).
The proletariat is not only factory workers. It is everybody who get most of their revenue from wage labor, instead of Capital gains.
Also, you must live in a rich neighbor, or in a megacity (service industry), or be a rich university kid with rich university friends, because i know quite a lot of people who are factory workers.

>>20817069
ehm i'd recommend maurizio lazzarato, byung-chul han, deleuze and guattari of course, and franco "bifo" berardi

>>20817069
If you speak German, then picrel. It's up-to-date and addresses both historical as well as contemporary capitalism. Naturally, given the length of the book, it's more of a summary than completely elaborate.

>>20819917
>8 hours every day, doing meaningless menial bullshit,
It sounds like you don't have any friends. Why don't you don't get some? Or get a better job. I'm not sure why you complain about doing meaningless shit when you have a choice not to.
> Marx didn’t have to work, and if he did, it would just confirm what he already believed.
I don't think so. Some people love their job. Marx nor you, speak for everyone. I wish you communists were mature enough to understand that.

>>20820097
Marx's class theory is really stupid in this regard. You just have a fetish for lionizing pauperism. You exalt the existence of people who have to exist in the first place for society to even function. There will never be a society where people own everything and have everything they want. You are limited by your own genetic capabilities,and what society can physically offer you in your limited existence. If you are not figuring out ways to optimize, in account to these criteria, you're wasting your time.

>>20817109
kek imagine worship a literally neet

>>20820207
That's the thing. I don't agree with thinkers like Seneca, Christ and Buddhas' or their followers - but I respect their beliefs because at least they are following people who did things with their life to make the world a better place. Marx was a straight up bum who did nothing for the world; his greatest contribution was his death because at least he could be used for fertilizer.

>>20820207
eat shit whitey righty. you're the scum of the earth

>>20820218
Even Marx was racist towards Africans and Mexicans

>>20817069
Reading Capital is sufficient for understanding capitalism.

>>20820231
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk refuted it though?

>>20820230
he hated fags too. says so right there in the communist manifesto, "homosexuality is bourgeoise decadence". fuck any fag interpretation of marx

>>20820218
Kys, third worldist fag. The revolution will only happen in the west no matter how many red dictators the south gets.

>>20820256
>wordist
you're literally a psychotic fascist and subhuman. do the world a favour and kill yourself

>>20820256
Nta, but Marx's theory of revolution is cringe. You can't reconcile his beliefs social evolution (historical materialism) with the immediacy of political revolution.

>>20820174
>I'm not sure why you complain about doing meaningless shit when you have a choice not to.
Often there is no other choice. It's either meaningless work or bumhood and starvation. Put yourself in the shoes of a worker. As a rule, he doesn't have much in the way of savings (after all, he is working in order to build up savings). He desperately needs a job and takes what he can get (rent needs to be paid; maybe he has a family to feed, relatives to support). The capitalist knows how badly the worker needs the job. In the labor contract negotiations, the capitalist sits at the longer lever and rips off the worker. Now the worker is stuck in a lousy job. Naturally, he looks around for other jobs. But you have to find them first. The other capitalists are no less pigish than the current one. After all, to survive under capitalism, the capitalist has to be a swine. If the worker has found a job that is a bit better (good luck boy), then he must enter into new contract negotiations. Again, the capitalist sits at the longer lever. Once the worker is in the limbo of job hunting, his small savings dwindle away. His life is on a knife edge. This makes the lever all the longer. And so on...

>>20820261
"Fascism" is just a boogeyman. It doesn't exist. Stop letting CNN and MSNBC control you.

>>20820270
neither do pedos you fucking fascist. also the jews aren't behind anything. get your fucking head straight

>>20820261
>fascist
All third worldists are just mentally ill liberals

>>20820267
>ften there is no other choice.
There is a choice. People who have work experience are more likely to find jobs than people who don't since employers are always looking for experienced people. The whole "work or starve" argument is silly considering jobs exist everywhere, there is nothing stopping you from being self employed, and every society has a safety net to ensure you don't have to deal with any of things. That's why homeless are often obese, and don't starve to death. Finding food, housing, and employment in modern society is not difficult. Most countries have an employment rate under 5-6% for a reason.
>the capitalist sits at the longer lever and rips off the worker.
This isn't true at all. The capitalist provides the worker his equipment, his uniform, his transportation, his training, the materials for production, the employees you need to accomplish your work, and compensation. Workers are people who are essentially paying the capitalist doing the labor of setting up a business ahead of time, an initial investment the worker either refuses or lacks the ability to do so. Ensuring that all of these parts of the workplace operate at an optimal level to ensure profits that pay for your wage and benefits in the first place. Your problem is you don't understand the perspective of capitalist, and the fact that he/she does more than for you than you'll willing to accept.

>>20820279
>Pedophiles don't exist
But I'm talking to one

>>20820294
a 24 year old woman is not a child, you fucking fascist moron. nobody likes little boys besides you fucking catholic nazis. i fucking hate you people

>>20820283
no, we're just human, we're not subhuman homosexual pedophiles like you fascist pieces of shit

>>20820292
I disagree completely.

>>20820311
Well, you can. Does it matter? No, because communism isn't going to happen in your life time.

>>20820301
>She's 24
Yeah, she's too old for you. She needs to be about 10 years younger.

>>20820319
i prefer middle-aged women, mostly.

>>20820325
You prefer middle school women, mostly.

>>20820330
>middle school
>women
baka
i like mature women and women with big tits, also sort of manfaced eastern european women, and especially asian women. i just don't like "white" (north american) women, that doesn't mean i'm a pedophile. it just means they're fucking stupid ugly sacks of genetic garbage

>>20820351
Okay groomer

>>20820352
you can't fucking groom a literal adult, fuck this moral hysteria bullshit. she's already fucking so many other guys, jesus, take the blindfold off. adult women are not victims

>>20820237
lol no
havent bothered to read the whole book but EBB didnt even understand Marx' explanation of profit and ties himself into knots over it

>>20817069
It doesn't matter if you don't know factory workers

I worked at a funeral home for 3 months, i guess at least 100k worth of funerals
I got 100 euro
My actual job showed up in the invoice for clients as "office stuff , 200 euro each
I did at least 50 of them
>>20820207
Lmao you don't even know what neet means

>>20820381
Marx doesn't even understand profit to begin with. If he wasn't a such a bum, and actually ran a business, he would know where it comes from and goes into creating it. But he let a business man do all the work while for him he his screwed his wife's maid.
>havent bothered to read the whole book
Lol, that explains the economic illiteracy

>>20820381
>Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk didn't refute him, but lol I didn't even read the book!
Proof Marxists are pseuds who don't know what they are talking about lmao

>>20820292
t. first worlder
Yeah bro, you poor? Just work. Is it paying bad? Just get an education? You arent finding a job in your area? Your arent looking hard enough... maybe theres a reason there are so many immigration to developed countries

>>20820292
sheltered baby

proletarian doesn't even exist in any country with welfare, ie. most europe, especially the nords. marx defined proletariat as a class of people who has to sell their labor to survive. well, nowadays a lot of people in europe have a choice to just not go to work and they will easily survive regardless. Hence I concluded instantly upon reading that definition, that it is worthless for me to read Marx.

>>20820406
>a lot
I meant ALL. Everyone has that opportunity, there's nobody in welfare states who is part of proletariat.

>>20820292
>This isn't true at all. The capitalist provides the worker his equipment, his uniform, his transportation, his training, the materials for production, the employees you need to accomplish your work, and compensation. Workers are people who are essentially paying the capitalist doing the labor of setting up a business ahead of time, an initial investment the worker either refuses or lacks the ability to do so. Ensuring that all of these parts of the workplace operate at an optimal level to ensure profits that pay for your wage and benefits in the first place. Your problem is you don't understand the perspective of capitalist, and the fact that he/she does more than for you than you'll willing to accept
Yeah and thats why most of the capitalists are rich successors and heirs. Most of the poor will never have the chance or capital to open their own bussiness and consequently will wageslave forever, and most of the burghers are descendants of the old rich, (friends of) nobility, slavers, etc.

>>20820404
>>20820405
>Be lazy and woke
>Watch ChapoTraphouse
>Larp as a communist online
Good luck with that

>>20820443
Most "capitalists" are small business owners who who saved their money for years, and took the risk of opening a business. They also have multiple jobs and have to raise their families. And you hate them, and want to rob them of their wealth through plundering and murder. I'm not sure why you hate hard-working people so much.

>>20820443
>capital to open their own bussiness and consequently will wageslave forever,
GDP per capita is correlated to intelligence, and intelligence is heritable. People are often poor because of their genetics. Plenty of rich people have blown their money into poverty because of their poor financial skills. This isn't accurate at all. Marxists just ignore the reality there are genetic limitations that limit your biological ability to create wealth.

>>20820443
>most of the burghers are descendants of the old rich
And this isn't a problem, and its not even true. Its an evolutionary instinct to care about the future of your young, and ensuring their survival. The idea rich people shouldn't care about their own childrens' future because it might hurt your feelings is utter non-sense.

>>20820446
I am just poor and tired of seeing my people in complete misery just so withoids first worlders live with our exploration
>>20820452
Thats why little burghers are the first to go in the revolution. They have little shits of bussiness and think they are rotschilds even tough they have to work like wageslaved. No empathy for them, it will be a workers revolution, not schizo little burghers
>>20820461
Gdp per capita is a dumb metric that doesnt say anything. If genetics was a thing scandinavians were to never leave out of their mudhut pillaging lifestyles

>>20820461
really is amazing how the Norwegians and Arabs managed to double their intelligence in 70's

>>20820475
The problem is that the capital never goes out of this peoples hands. Marxism inst about discussing morality

>>20820174
>Some people love their job.
Yeah some people are naturally brainwashed slaves who are happy to labour away so the owners of the company can buy a 400 million dollar megayacht which has a mini yacht within the yacht (look up Jeff Bezos’ yacht if you don’t believe me). They are natural slaves, so they deserve to be slaves. However if they rise up and chop off the capitalists’ fat, useless heads they will then be able to claim the fruit of their labour for themselves.

>>20820487
I'm not really interesting hearing your cope about being poor and I don't care.
>>20820497
>The problem is that the capital never goes out of this peoples hand
The middle class creates the wealth they purchase and enjoy. So not really. Small businesses create all of the things you have in your house. Economics is not a zero-sum game.
>>20820502
>Yeah some people are naturally brainwashed slaves
The only brainwashed slaves are Marxist college students, like yourself, who are groomed by state universities into believing you need to be dependent on government handouts. You have to stop with the victim complex. Your life isn't hard. You're just spoiled.

>>20820516
The workers collectively labour for the owner’s benefit. The owners take the fruits of their labour (profit) and divide it among themselves, even though the workers did all that was necessary and sufficient to generate the profit. This IS slavery on a mass scale. You can keep calling me a “rich college student” all you want but I’ve already told you: I worked in construction. It’s hell. The world we live in is a dystopia. That’s what I realised from my work experience.

>>20820452
Small business owners, that is owners who have less than 10 wage workers working for them, represent less than 10% of the GDP, and their number are shrinking.
They are going to be proletarianized. Because they are getting crushed by heavy Capital.

>>20820502
>Jeff Bezo
He got his yacht for making a successful business. The workers themselves work for him because they don't have the skills to be successful business men. Workers generally speaking aren't very intelligent and only do menial tasks. That's why don't make the big bucks. You have to understand certain people are low IQ, and only function in life is to be a tool for someone else. That's true for most people. Marxist are those types of people. They're lazy. Low self esteem. Unintelligent. Worthless or drug addicts. Just like Marx.

>>20820527
He is baiting for replies. Dont give him the satisfaction

>>20820527
The workers' work for the boss because they don't have the intelligence to work themselves. If workers don't want to be a worker; they can choose to start a business. Profit is determined by the consumer, not the business owner. Not all businesses are profitable, and most fail, because they don't provide anything society needs. The business owned is paid because they took the risk of making a profitable firm. Marxism is just completely wrong, and it just proves Marxists are financially illiterate.

>>20820534
No one is baiting. You're just retarded. Marxism is not a seriously ideology. No one takes you seriously. You stop being a NEET and a job before you end up on kiwifarms like Chrischan.

>>20817069
Read Ellul.

>>20820529
Small business owners represent 99% of all businesses and serve more people than corporations do. You just don't know what you're talking about. Their numbers are not shirking in the US afaik. We have labor shortages because of so many businesses being started and self employment is becoming more popular.

>>20820537
In no other risk-taking venture are the prizes for winning so much in your favour. If I get a loan from the bank and make an initial investment into a company and it succeeds, I can then live on the profit that company makes for the rest of my life. Even GAMBLERS can’t expect such great prizes for winning. If a gambler wins, he gets maybe 100x his winnings at most, but he doesn’t get to live from the bookmaker’s profits till he dies. And gambling is much riskier. In the same way, an entrepreneur SHOULD be recompensed for the risk he took, he SHOULD get his initial investment back with interest and he SHOULD get a decent wage for running the company, but he SHOULD NOT be able to take the profit all for himself. This is theft and slavery.
>>20820532
>workers aren’t intelligent
Rocket scientists, computer programmers, engineers etc. aren’t intelligent? Only lazy worthless business owners are intelligent? Then why has business corporate culture produced such worthless, low-level cultural products (self-help for example)? Why are business majors generally the lowest IQ of all the other disciplines?

>>20820552
yea im sure Mom&Pop Logistics gonna overtake Amazon any day now lel

Any book on fiat money and the federal reserve system will be infinitely more revealing than any philosophy of money book.

>>20820562
There's no reason to lie about things that can easily be debunked with a google search.
>>20820560
>are the prizes for winning so much in your favour.
Considering how business cause much more upfront investment than being a worker, not really. Most small businesses fail in 5-10 years. And you're on the hook for the debt, while the worker is not.
>Rocket scientists, computer programmers, engineers etc
Yeah, they're not as intelligent as people who logistically plan out how to make their skills profitable, yes. A computer programmer can't be useful to society unless he finds a company that can provide something with his skill set. That goes for everything you said. I don't think you understand how economics work if you believe people can simply make money with skills they can't apply. There is some lack of critical thinking skills in your post. You really have to provide better arguments because your responses becoming more brain-dead as we continue.

>>20820571
You’re not “on the hook for debt” you simply declare bankruptcy and that’s it.

You didn’t respond to the main point, which is that labour is necessary and sufficient to make profit. Labour, that’s it, nothing else. People should be paid for labour, and those in high ranking positions should be paid more, but there should be none of this “ownership” model where somebody can sit on his ass and collect money for doing nothing just because he claims he “owns” a portion of the company.

And if you actually think soulless business people are smarter than scientists and computer programmers you’re probably a soulless 101IQ business graduate yourself.

>>20820571
yeah bezos is going down any day now lmao

>>20817069
Imperialism in the 21st Century

>The globalization of production and its shift to low-wage countries is the most significant and dynamic transformation of the neoliberal era. Its fundamental driving force is what some economists call “global labor arbitrage”: the efforts by firms in Europe, North America, and Japan to cut costs and boost profits by replacing higher-waged domestic labor with cheaper foreign labor, achieved either through emigration of production (“outsourcing,” as used here) or through immigration of workers. Reduction in tariffs and removal of barriers to capital flows have spurred the migration of production to low-wage countries, but militarization of borders and rising xenophobia have had the opposite effect on the migration of workers from these countries—not stopping it altogether, but inhibiting its flow and reinforcing migrants’ vulnerable, second-class status. As a result, factories freely cross the U.S.-Mexican border and pass with ease through the walls of Fortress Europe, as do the commodities produced in them and the capitalists who own them, but the human beings who work in them have no right of passage. This is a travesty of globalization—a world without borders to everything and everyone except for working people.

>Global wage differentials, in large measure resulting from suppression of the free movement of labor, provide a distorted reflection of global differences in the rate of exploitation (simply, the difference between the value generated by workers and what they are paid). The southwards shift of production signifies that the profits of firms headquartered in Europe, North America, and Japan, the value of all manner of financial assets derived from these profits, and the living standards of the citizens of these nations have become highly dependent on the higher rates of exploitation of workers in so-called “emerging nations.” Neoliberal globalization must therefore be recognized as a new, imperialist stage of capitalist development, where “imperialism” is defined by its economic essence: the exploitation of southern living labor by northern capitalists.
https://monthlyreview.org/2015/07/01/imperialism-in-the-twenty-first-century/

>>20820584
As feel as I'm talking to someone who never took even high school economics. You need more than human capital (intelligence) to make your skills useful to society - you need social capital. Workers get paid because they don't provide social capital that can make their skills useful to people. I can be the most intelligent oil refiner, but that doesn't mean the skill is useful. I have no means of creating the infrastructure to making oil useful to cars.
>you simply declare bankruptcy
Lmao, you don't even fucking know how bankruptcy works In bankruptcy, you lose your house, your car, and your business because business fall under Chapter 11 bankruptcy. You also lose any credit you have. Its a big deal. This is a such stupid argument for you too. It harms your creditors who wasted all their money on you. You types always complain that people go into medical bankruptcy, but you think its no big deal it happens to business too who so many more obligations to society? This isn't a serious conversation. You are just not an adult. Even the reddit spacing gives it away. Its a waste of time talking to you because you don't even understand the fundamentals of finance. You should stop talking about economics until you at least have the ability to fill out a W-2 form. Until then, don't post here anymore. I'm not replying to a retard anymore who can't even understand basic fiance 101.

>>20820603
>Analysis of the empirics of neoliberal globalization reveals global labor arbitrage, arising from the higher degree of exploitation prevalent in low-wage nations, to be its fundamental driving force. The central finding from our review of Marx’s Capital is that this corresponds to the third form of surplus value increase, whose importance was stressed by Marx yet which he excluded from his general theory. Here is the only possible solid foundation for a renaissance of Marxism on a world scale.

>This is startlingly similar to Lenin’s argument that “capitalism only became capitalist imperialism at a definite and very high stage of its development, when certain of its fundamental characteristics began to change into their opposites, when the features of the epoch of transition from capitalism to a higher social and economic system had taken shape and revealed themselves in all spheres.” The rise of capitalism depended on the most barbaric forms of “primitive accumulation,” such as the transportation of millions of African slaves, colonial plunder, and opium trafficking. When capitalism reached its adult stage and took full control over the production process, competition flourished and the inner laws of capital became expressed most fully. Finally, in its epoch of decay, capitalism increasingly relies on forms other than free competition—monopoly, vastly increased state intervention in all aspects of economic life, “accumulation by dispossession,” imperialism—for its survival, but at the cost of distorting the operation of its laws and erecting new barriers to the expansion of the productive forces.

>>20820603
Marxists:
>"Open borders is a koch brothers proposal"
>"But you see, borders are racist."
Yeah, this a joke.

>>20820613
>such as the transportation of millions of African slaves, colonial plunder, and opium trafficking.
Yes, yes, the same "every white European is guilty of colonialism" and China and Russia dindu nuffin. It gets boring after a while. No one cares.

>>20820603
>Global wage differentials, in large measure resulting from suppression of the free movement of labor

Oh, dear.

>>20820612
Intelligence issue was in response to someone who said workers are stupid. In fact business culture is degenerate and business graduates are the lowest IQ.

Again the risk issue isn’t a justification for the ownership model. Investors should be paid back what they put in and with interest, just like a loan. But they should not be able to “own” the company. Even gamblers, who take higher risk, do not expect to seize control of the bookmaker’s profits if they win.

The ownership model is theft because, as I keep saying, it is labour and nothing else that is necessary and sufficient to create profit. Insofar as someone labours, he should be paid; “ownership” counts for nothing. You just refuse to respond to this because you have no argument. You’re defending theft and slavery.

>>20820641
>it is labour and nothing else that is necessary and sufficient to create profit
let's say you and 1000 other monkeys spent a million hours of collective labor writing a book.
no one buys the book.
now you get to explain how that million hours of labor resulted in exactly zero dollars of profit.

>>20817069
https://bnarchives.yorku.ca/259/

"Capital as Power" (2009)

>>20820643
Don’t know what you’re talking about. Pick any company in the world. They make their profit purely through labour. They have to design the product (engineers, computer programmers, etc.), produce the product (factory workers, etc.), market the product (advertisers, marketers), sell the product (salespeople), deliver the product (drivers), manage the workplace (managers, directors), keep the books (accountants), hire new workers (human resources), clean the place (cleaners). And so on. All of this is labour. Those in high ranking management positions almost always own a big portion of the company, but insofar as they make management decisions, they are labouring. No profit is made except through labour.
Labour should be all that is paid for. The owners should not be able to divide the profit amongst themselves because it is only through labour that the profit is made. High ranking managers should be paid more because you want to attract competent people to those positions. But 1) it shouldn’t be ridiculously high salary so that they can buy 400 million dollar yachts like Bezos. Nobody needs that. And 2) they should be accountable to fellow workers, not owners and shareholders.

>>20819917
> “communists don’t work; they’re just rich kids” is a myth
> did a construction job this summer to make some extra money before uni
> extra money before uni
kys

>>20820395
>businessman
>doing work
Good one, comrade

>>20820668
>Don’t know what you’re talking about.
yeah, no shit. don't know much of anything, do you?

>>20820696
The point is you created a strawman, angry man

>>20820729
lmao. don't you have some waging you should be doing?

>>20820746
I quit after 3 weeks. The horrible thing is I was being paid above average salary in my city £16/hr. Some people slave away for even less than that and do it all their lives. Well, until they rise up and commence the revolution, it’s their own fault for accepting their dejected position.

>>20820759
so you can't work a job for a month, but you think you'll survive a revolution?
wow... this is the power... of leftism...

>>20820797
There’s nothing manly or noble about it. It’s slavery. Of course I quit.

>>20819917
Sounds like you just don’t want to work, and you want someone else to pay your way in life.

>>20821000
Exactly like shareholders then xD

>>20821000
>Sounds like you just don’t want to work,
Who the fuck does?

>>20820643
Capitalism goes over cycles, if some capitalist made a massive investment which resulted in a total lose that simply wouldn't occur again and the labour would end up being allocated differently. No one has ever claimed labour inputs determine monetary profit. In the 19th century that would of meant agriculture would have everywhere been more profitable than industry. Marx claimed "socially necessary labour time" exists and value is discreetly redistributed through markets in a way that makes capitalism functional

>>20820668
>Labour should be all that is paid for. The owners should not be able to divide the profit amongst themselves because it is only through labour that the profit is made
That's literally Proudhonist anarchism and Marx would not agree

>>20821806
>That's literally Proudhonist anarchism and Marx would not agree
give arguments instead of appealing to authority

>>20817069
Marxism doesn’t have to be applied to only factory workers and owners.

>>20817087
They literally are.

>>20817109
>never ran a company
Most people don’t. If he did, you would just have a problem with it anyway.
>never held political office
Most people don’t.
>never oversaw any accounts
What?
>never held a job
He was a journalist for most of his life.

>>20817109

>>20822244
Ayn Rand isn't considered an economist. She was just a fan fiction writer.
Milton Friedman was actually trained in economics (Had a Phd from Columbia University), worked on economic policy in the US on the National Resources Planning Board in the 30s-40s and won several Nobel Prizes in his field. Marx never had a degree in economics, never worked in any economics in capacity, and never won any Nobel Prize for anything. This is a shit meme by a retard, and you're a retard for sharing it.

>>20822232
>Most people don’t.
And that's why business owners make the big bucks, and you don't, retard. That's why Marx's theory of exploitation and LTV makes no sense. He doesn't understand the concept of skilled labor or social capital. Neither do you.
>Most people don’t.
And those same people don't go around acting as if they're an expert on government and economic policy while Marx pretended he could be.
>He was a journalist for most of his life.
That wasn't a job. He was paid by Engels to support himself because he never made any income from his writings.

Marx was a failed novelist, Ayn Rand was a massively successful one.

>>20822244
Funny how he never confronts Marx, I wonder why. This is the commie cope.

>>20822270
Basically. Rand actually knew how to make money. Marx was beggar. Neither Marx or Rand are seen as economists, but fringe sociologists who only could make unscientific, qualitative arguments about the world.

>>20822244
Stop posting your own screencaptures, its really pathetic. 6 responses to a whataboutism does not a btfo make.

>>20822284
marx’s critique of political economy totally reshaped the field of economics, and politics, and philosophy, and art, and science, and birthed sociology

>>20820174
>get a better job
And then someone fills the vacancy he left… and if they leave, someone else does, ad infinitum. There’s no getting around the lowest level of service jobs in our current capitalist system are atrocious, and it’s not a problem which can be fixed by the body of workers who typically work that job leaving or rising to a higher tier. The tier remains and the system reinforces it.

>>20822301
He certainly had a major influence but that isn't true. Strictly speaking political economy and social science begin in the mid 18th century with the Scottish Enlightenment and French philosophes turning to empirical studies of human society and beginning to talk about a "science of man." You could take pages or chapters put of books written in the 1750s and many wouldn't be able to tell them apart from Marx. That period is the real origin of "historical materialism." Marx read most of them and says so himself, tracing his lineage through British and French social thought.

Sociology proper, including the term sociologie, come from the early decades of the 19th century and develop throughout the 19th. Marx was a spur to a lot of late 19th century thinkers like Durkheim but they weren't really Marxists. Remember, for a long time the only major work by Marx available was Capital, and it was poorly understood even by Marxists. Weber had substantial Marxist influence but he was primarily a historicist.

Marxist aesthetic philosophy is pretty arid. Just read the intro to Lukacs' theory of the European novel (complete with summary of historical materialism). Marxist metaphysics is the worst thing about Marxism, Enlightenment garbage and atheistic reductionist materialism. Engels somehow combines Richard Dawkins Reddit atheism with amateur speculative materialist philosophy to create the ultimate abortion.

>>20820097
>The proletariat is not only factory workers. It is everybody who get most of their revenue from wage labor, instead of Capital gains.
What do salaried government workers fall under? Police, military, teachers?
>you must live in a rich neighbor, or in a megacity (service industry), or be a rich university kid with rich university friends, because i know quite a lot of people who are factory workers.
Not who you're responding to. I live in a city under of a half million, I'm not rich (under 100k) or a university fag. All my friends work service or trades. I really don't know anyone who works in a factory, there's just not many of them around my area.

>>20822270
Marx literally never attempted to write a novel, his literary endeavors encompass a few works of poetry, mainly composed during his university days.

>>20820612
>In bankruptcy, you lose your house, your car, and your business because business fall under Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
anon it is obvious that it is you who doesn’t know how bankruptcy works

>>20817109
>never held a job
Aside from editor of the Neue Rheinische Zeitung, International Correspondent for the New York Tribune, columnist for the chartist newspaper, etc.

>>20817076
Fpbp

>>20817069
Some economic texbook. For social related stuff I guess you can read "Managing the Managers" or "The Managerial Revolution"(shorter article or longer book) by Burnham because he's describing a structural shift in the way companies were managed that was still ongoing at the time of writing but in le current year it's basically the norm.

>>20822232
baristas are not proletarian, they are service workers lol

the aspects of a barista being proletarian do not come from their workplace