/lit/ - Literature

Going to learn Latin solely via LLPSI out of pure spite for the anti-LLPSI anon(s)

>>20815090
llpsi anon here, that's not possible. llpsi is just a stepping stone, the actual learning of latin happens once you read real latin texts

>>20815092
>Ignore the trolls.

What's the exact rule for placing commas here:

Filius quem Aemilia verberat est Marcus.
Marcus, quem Aemilia verberat, plorat.

What's the interpunction here:
Filius quem Aemilia verberat Marcus est.

>>20815090
>Going to learn Latin solely via grammar drilling and vocabulary memorization out of pure spite for the anti-grammar anon(s)

>>20811569
thanks, this seems very close to what I'm looking for.
Already learned some by watching the classrom videos that go with it
https://youtube.com/watch?v=tJrGaOF-bOw

>>20815151
there's no rule since romans didn't use punctuation marks back then

Seconding this with the Greek part and the LLSSRI condition omitted:
>>20811545
Where are some good resources for learning biblical Hebrew? Just to play around with for now, as I don't want to distro-hop before mastering latin.

>>20815351
>>20815351
Aleph With Beth on YouTube

>>20815074
>All claims about language learning methods must be backed up with the language in question.
optimus methodus ad anglicam linguam discendam, immissio et immersio est; discere grammaticam inutilis est, praeterquam ad scripturam meliorandam

>>20815388
>inutilis
inutile
sowwy

>>20815388
optima since methodus is female, and for that I never trust any method since they are all girls

>>20815388
Stulte, praeterea plures grammaticam anglicam ludo/gymnaso/lyceo didicerunt.

>>20815417
nihil sermonis anglici didici ludo, sed alia linguarum
didici id utens tantum ab yt et a 4chan

>>20815417
nihil sermonis anglici didici ludo, sed alia linguarum
didici eum utens tantum ab yt et a 4chan

>>20815447
Anglice scribe, stolide, nec Latinum nec Anglicum sermonem scis.

>>20815526
>>20815417
>>20815388
I was going to reply in Latin. But this is just shit Latin.

>Hebrew, Aramaic, Syriac, Coptic, & Ethiopic
Has anyone completed this arc?

>>20815546
>I was going to reply in Latin
sure buddy

μὴ λέγε ὅ τι ἂν εἰδῇς
ἀλλὰ
ἴσθι ὅ τι ἂν λέγῃς

>>20815620
no one here has completed even one of those

si marcus aut quintus essem, diu cotidie ancillas futuerem. non miror Imperium Romanum cecidisse

>>20816146
Aethiopanon finished his Ethiopic course.

>>20816146
you don't "complete" languages. they're not video games. you're constantly learning new things when you learn a new language. you even learn new vocabulary with your own native language if you read enough.

>Syraaaaaaa, pes mihi dolet, et convalescentia mihi taedium afflcit
>O domine, festina, tolle vestimentam! Necesse est vacuare testes! Irruma me! *suc sac, suc sac*

>>20816200
nah for ancient languages youve completed them as soon as youve read their entire corpus

>>20816220
lol

>>20816220
true true

>>20815355
Bad suggestion. I've seen you write it before.

>>20816200
Wrong, once you complete all the exercises on your favorite text book you post your achievement on reddit and move on to the next thing.
Erras. Omne pensa libri ad usum tironum dilectissimi consummato, nuntias gestam in reddit, et ad novam rem transit.

>>20815074
Ego sum vir. Tu es vir. Ea est femina.

Am I doing it right?

>>20816175
>Aethiopanon
Aethiopanon is too chad for this godforsaken thread

>>20816255
You guys will always criticize people who are learning languages that you aren't even learning and you will always criticize methods when you don't even provide an alternative.

Opinion discarded. Post a textbook or a course that YOU recommend instead of just whining about what other people are doing. Otherwise fuck off.

>>20816262
>pensa
penso
>>20816270
ea numquam femina erit

>>20815620
>>20816175
I did all that minus the Syriac and Coptic but plus Latin. I might be able to take Coptic this fall with one of the best. I've dabbled with Syriac and won't learn it for at least 6 months.

I'm translating a Jonah manuscript right now; I'm on my bathroom break as I type this. It's amazing how fast Ge'ez can be learned. It wasn't easy for me to learn Ge'ez, but it was really fast. I'll upload a picture sometime.

>>20816298
Are you a Ge'eza now? Hahahah, get it?? Geezer!!

>>20816298
Based Aethiops.

I want to be like you one day. I'm doing my hardest right now learning L*tin! You give you hope, Mr. Axumite giga-chad semitic expert!

>>20816282
>ea numquam femina erit
Ita, is non est femina.

>>20816273
That guy is impersonating me to make me look like a dick for whatever reason. Aleph with Beth is a fine suggestion, though I already knew it. The problem with it is that they don't show how the words are spelled, and the mystical significance of the letters is what draws me to Hebrew.

btw here is a good Latin channel I've never seen mentioned here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0AbUi-8XV8

>>20816273
>You guys will always criticize people who are learning languages that you aren't even learning and you will always criticize methods when you don't even provide an alternative.
>Opinion discarded. Post a textbook or a course that YOU recommend instead of just whining about what other people are doing. Otherwise fuck off.
The reason I don't always provide alternatives is that my replies end up like this and take more of my time than I should be spending.
You will find two textbooks that I recommend in the ANE Mega: A Practical Grammar for Classical Hebrew by J. Weingren and Beginning Biblical Hebrew by Cook & Holmstedt. There are two files for Cook and Holmstedt (Biblical Hebrew - A Student Grammar and Hebrew_Lessons). They both look incomplete, but that's what I could find on the internet. Weingren is tried and true anyway.
The Aleph and Beth YouTube channel is not a good resource for serious students of Biblical Hebrew. If you are seeking a human element, learn Hebrew with a class or find a scholarly YouTube channel. I took Hebrew at the university I go to. Traditionally, it was either that or learn it within your synagogue or church. Now, there are online courses offered by universities and other institutions that are within reach of everyone. You don't have to be a degree seeking student. They cost money but work. I haven't looked into any good Hebrew YouTube channels, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist or that Aleph and Beth is the best option.

>>20816330
>now learning L*tin
quam turmam optavisti?

>>20815315
https://www.triodos-trivium.com/learn-greek/books/
check this, there are more

>>20816270
LSL moment

>>20816470
NLR moment

>>20816175
>>20816272
>>20816304
>>20816330
Here's the picture I promised in my earlier reply.

>>20816484
I like the script

>>20816484
since you seem someone who actually has real experience learning classical languages, I have to ask, even if I risk to detail the thread again, what did you do for learning Latin and would you do something different if you had to learn it again?

>>20816220
>as soon as youve read their entire corpus
>youve read their entire corpus
>corpus
>entire
>read
lol

How the FUCK do you type out breath marks in Greek

>>20816515
what's so funny about that

>>20816519
on linux I switch the layout with a key-combo to polytonic greek, then I can press shift+ç + vowel for smooth breathing or shift+° + vowel for rough breathing

>>20816519
breathe on your keyboard

>>20816433
> The problem with it is that they don't show how the words are spelled
They do! They just wait until after they introduced the alephbet, after that all new words are shown in writing in the videos.

>>20816519
οὕτως

>>20816536
I am 18 and for 2,5 years I'm trying to complete all the Greek written texts from Homer to the end of the ERE. I don't have the time, gotta read

>>20816602
it's obviously not realistic for languages with large corpuses

>>20816607
>corpuses
CORPORA!!!

>>20816612
*Corpi

>>20816644
but corpus is neuter, anon

>>20816433
>The problem with it is that they don't show how the words are spelled,
Tfw when you only watch the first lesson.

>>20816607
what languages have small corpora?

>>20816436
>The Aleph and Beth YouTube channel is not a good resource for serious students of Biblical Hebrew.
You keep saying that without saying why. You do realize that everyone here wants good resources? Nobody wants to use a resource if it's shit. So if you thinks it's shit, you should tell us why. People will take your word for it. Even if someone doesn't, at least that information will be archived here for future reference.

>>20816506
I believe it has South Arabian origins.

>>20816670
i speedrunned it on 2x speed

>>20816687
gothic

>>20816519
Other than this >>20816573, I recommend Greek Keys. It used to require payment, but now, it's free. It's not the only Ancient Greek keyboard, but it is one I can vouch for.
https://classicalstudies.org/publications-and-research/about-greekkeys-2015

>>20816512
Not him, but I'm guessing he did the same thing that he did for every other classical language he studied, which is he read the grammar books that his professors assigned him and read as much authentic texts to accompany that as he could get a hold of.

But I will let him speak for himself. Good question to ask. I'm interested to see what he says.

>>20816687
Gothic

>>20816660
si verpam habet masculinum est, si cunnum femeninum

>>20816644
>corpi
>plural of corpus
Is this the guy that derailed the thread yesterday and kept saying "NLR"?

>>20816696
Yes, it does.

>>20816706
Ok so what is the point? you would have a language with limited dictionary... useless...

>>20816720
People perform and enjoy useless tasks every day.

>>20816720
you can read alice in wonderland

>>20816730
yes but this is exceptionally useless

>>20816687
Old High German
Old English

>>20816735
I dont trust modern niggers

>>20816720
>Ok so what is the point?
>>20816736
>yes but this is exceptionally useless
Grimdark utilitarian detected.

J.R.R Tolkien taught himself with Joseph Wright’s A Primer of the Gothic Language. Our longest text in Gothic besides the bible is a poem by Tolkien called Bagme Bloma. He went on to be a hell of a lot more successful than yourself (if all you care about is doing things that lead to success). As it turns out, people who follow their passions tend to become somebodies and people who never make controversial decisions in an attempt to not look weird remain nobodies for the rest of their lives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagme_Bloma
https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Gothic
https://glaemscrafu.jrrvf.com/english/thucydide.html
https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Letter_272
https://www.uco.es/ucopress/ojs/index.php/litteraaperta/article/view/10817/10015

>>20816755
I fuck you everyday and will fuck Toilken pseudo gothic as well

>>20816755
based, philistines btfo

>>20816771
It's the guy from yesterday. He's just trying to derail the thread again. Don't give him anymore (you)s. He's always negative and he admitted that he isn't learning any language.

>>20816783
noted

if i learn gothic, will i have to paint my nails black?

>>20816700
Thanks!

>>20816755
How do I learn Gothic?

>>20816972
Use one (or all) of these
>Joseph Wright’s A Primer of the Gothic Language
>An Introduction to the Gothic Language by William H. Bennett
>An Introduction to the Gothic Language by Thomas O. Lambdin

>>20816990
Thanks. I'm unironically gonna learn Gothic, just to prove that I can.

>>20817012
Some videos to help you have an idea of what you are getting yourself into.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-pmudxHUfQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkKrS5yOPFI
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5JLrd8gF478sjaE9Cxwi5Q/videos

>>20817023
Anon, I don't feel so good..

>>20817047
You can learn 3000 words and read some Gospel fragments, don't be a pussy. Conquer Gothic like a true Roman Bvll.

>tfw Gothic texts pussy out and use the Latin alphabet

I would learn it if I could read it in Germanic scribbles

Nox erat. Aemilia Iulium fessum iacentem lecto quiescentem vidit. Silenter appropinquavit. Cum gaudio eum spectabat, tamen etiam paucum cum tristitia, quia sciebat maritum suum amatum tantum pro ea filisque, pro ei digna vita danda, multum laborabat.
Poetae spiritum Iulius habebat, otiari et canere voluisset. Sed otia cum Aemiliam cognovisset deposuit.
Numquam lamentavit, nunquam ullum verbum melancholiae dixit. Sed Aemilia sciebat, similem libro aperto mentem Iulii legebat.
Voluit hoc dicere, hoc et plura et...
—O mi Iuli...
Iulius oculos aperiens eam aspiciens arridit.
Verba necesse non erant. Nam verba supererant.
Aemilia ante Iulium stans eum in oculos intuens pallium tollit, quod per curvamen cruorum lapsum est; candidam pellem nudi corporis calidae luci candelarum exposuit.
Vestimentis pavimento oblitis
—Iuli...
dixit susurrans. Genuam super lecto Armilia posuit, rigentes papillae libaverunt Iulii pectum, cuiusque labra admoverunt...

>>20817471
>Nox erat.
Didn't even read the rest but I already know this is porn.

>>20817478
You don't need a word of latin, just go by the ellipses

>>20817471
>cruorum
shit, I meant "crurum"
Feel free to correct any mistakes you find

>>20817471
This is degeneracy, but it's originally written Latin and it's not part of an argument, so I can't complain.

>>20817560
>degeneracy
how? it's perfectly normal, retard. in fact, it's hot, and it's pure compared to the shit that's usually vomited out by "erotica" authors nowadays.

>>20817560
>degeneracy
just a wife showing her love for his hardworking husband

>>20817567
>it's perfectly normal, retard.
Don't get defensive, I was trying to say something constructive.
>>20817570
>hard working husband
This nigga has over a hundred slaves, but YEAH OK

>>20817560
>degeneracy
just a wife showing her love for her hardworking husband

>>20816720
Absence of a soul detected

>>20817574
>This nigga has over a hundred slaves, but YEAH OK
slaves don't just whip themselves, chud

>>20817601
If he is going to work his right arm that much, then he can use his left to jerk it. Aemilia is not a pleasure servant. Haven't you even heard of women's lib???

>>20817604
kek, sorry, I'll try to write about Iulius trying to jerk off while Aemilia whine about some ancilla that she thinks she stole some piece of jewelry next time

>>20816512
>>20816704 is mostly right. When learning the basic grammar of a language, I rarely looked at authentic texts. The biggest exception to that is when I used the Westminster Leningrad Codex to practice pronunciation. I did that from the very beginning of Hebrew, and I did it only for the purposes of pronunciation. If you're not familiar with Hebrew, the WLC is an easily found text that features Masoretic pointing (Hebrew vocalization)—basically Hebrew macrons but more important. I'll also add that I have never used a supplemental reader. Any spare time I had and wanted to use to study, which was most of my spare time, I spent drilling Quizlet and writing out paradigms, mostly the latter. With Latin, I was really lucky that I only had to go through the list 2-3 times in order to get it down.
Another thing I'd like to share is that I tend not to read textbooks. I listen to lectures and see the professor's demonstrations, and if I don't get something, I'll look at the PowerPoint (if the class has them, most didn't) or at the grammar book. For Hebrew, I only used flash cards once. I just found flash cards to be too difficult with the script. Instead, I wrote the words out—again and again for hours. I did this for Latin a few times, and I wrote out every new Greek vocab set once
You also asked what I would do differently if I had Latin to do over again. I've thought about this before because I had a year long gap between Latin 1 and 2 in order to learn Greek and Aramaic. I don't regret learning Greek and Aramaic, and I was the top performer in my Latin 2 class with the help of some summer tutoring from my instructor, so I can't say I would do anything differently. I wish I use dictionaries less, but it's hard to get on top of everything when you're learning as many languages as I am. I'll get to where I want to be eventually.
Here are three dictionaries I recommend:
https://logeion.uchicago.edu/%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%B3%CE%B5%E1%BF%96%CE%BF%CE%BD (use the Morpho feature to get parsed Greek and Latin forms)
https://www.online-latin-dictionary.com/
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?lang=la

>>20817471
plus

>>20817471
Based & saved. This is now canon.

>>20816463
ευχαριστώ!
My main issue is that most books seem to teach Attic Greek, while I'm more interested in Κοινή

>>20818203
The class I took in was called Introduction to Classical and New Testament Greek. It was 3 semesters long. I haven't read any Koine texts, except for a little bit of the Bible and a single poem. From my experience, I'd say that learning Attic will fully prepare you for Koine. I was able to read Homeric Greek last semester after being told the differences over the course of a few minutes. The dialect differences are overblown in the minds of noobs. Learn Attic and don't worry about it.

Is there a Koine Greek dictionary with definitions written in Koine Greek? Or in Attic, maybe?

Something akin to what m-w.com is for English, but in Greek?

>>20818431
asking the same but for latin

>>20818447
Forcellini's can be used online, both scan and digital
http://lexica.linguax.com/forc2.php?searchedLG=mus
don't know of others

>>20818365
>I'd say that learning Attic will fully prepare you for Koine
That's about what I figured from what I've read about the dialects so far, and also that it should work the other way around.
But Koine is said to have simpler grammar, plus there's a much bigger corpus available (including e.g. free audio recordings of native Greek speakers reading the entire Bible) so I figured it would be easier to learn Koine first and then Attic, if I go for learning both.
Plus, most of what I actually want to read is in Koine, the biggest exception being Plato.

How much should I stress about Greek pronunciation? It seems every book has a different explanation for their ο's and ω's.

>>20818544
I'll keep this brief. Yes, the Attic grammar is greater and the Koine corpus is larger, but iirc, the only big grammatical difference is the lack of the optative. Learning the optative is a piece of cake after learning the subjunctive. Modern Greek is pronounced very differently from the Erasmian pronunciation that Ancient Greek students are taught in. A classicist or Bible scholar would usually prefer to listen to a non-Greek read Greek. Everyone does Attic first. I am no Greek expert. I'm still very much a student and not in the know, but from what I gather, the people who only learn Koine attend schools like Bumblefuck Bible College. Find an Attic textbook. I hate / hated Athenaze, but I haven't tried to find anything better. Good luck.

>>20819222
Omicron is pronounced like "ought" or "law". Alpha, which you are not asking about, is pronounced like "father". The way I think about these two vowels is the difference between the Boston (ah) and New York (aw) accents. Alpha is Boston and omicron is more New York. Omega is pronounced like the English letter "o" or the word "no".
Given that there is Erasmian, Modern Greek, and some newish type of scholarly pronunciation I've forgotten the name of, you don't have to worry too much. Just don't be my friend who told me he was sick with oh-my-crahn. I couldn't figure out what he was talking about for at least a minute. Greek, more so than Latin, should treated with flexibility in pronunciation.

Greek bros... I need help, especially from someone who has read Aristophanes' Wasps

I have to do an essay on the subject of the Wasps but I was homeless for pretty much the entire year so wasn't able to even do any learning or reading.

Greek bros... from someone who has read Aristophanes' Wasps. I have to do a 2500 word coursework essay on the Wasps. Long story short my exams were deferred to this month, because I had problems for the academic year where I couldn't sit them. I didn't even know I had to do this essay until now because it was hidden on the maze of the university website and I'm only aware of it because of an email.

There's 4 potential questions.
One is about animal metaphors and transformation
One is about the presence of tragedy and another poetic forms in the Wasps that aren't comedy
One is about Philocleon being animalistic yet human
One is about what makes the Wasps so good at attacking the real Cleon and the Athenian courts during the war

No idea which I should even do seeing as I barely have a first years' understanding of Greek

>>20818501
thanks

>>20818431
doesn't seem to exist, unless we're counting dictionaries with definitions in Modern Greek.

Funny, the biggest difference between serious learners of modern languages and losers who only make half-hearted attempts is usually whether they use monolingual or bilingual dictionaries.

No wonder most students suck so hard at Greek that they can't read basic texts without dictionaries and grammar references even after several years of study when a millennium or two of scholarship hasn't been enough to make people create decent study materials.

>>20819950
>I have to do a 2500 word coursework essay on the Wasps
are you supposed to write those 2,500 words in Greek or in English?

>>20820644
speak for yourself. when i was doing my classics degree, i was studying with a lady who could read plato without any difficulty. she was a mega autist but still counts. she was obssessed with the symposium for whatever reason.

>>20820680
>speak for yourself
I was happily reading fairly advanced texts in German, English and Japanese after less than a year of studying each of these languages in my spare time, despite school/work taking up much of my day (I did eventually have to take English classes in school, and some of my teachers resented the fact that I spoke it much more fluently than they themselves were able to).

The fact that you're holding her up as an exceptional example, rather than that being the norm, proves my point.
She also sounds like someone who passionately read a shitload of real Greek literature, rather than just dicking around with declension tables and Greek-English dictionaries like most courses will have you do.
Learning a language isn't hard, we all do it at least once. It just takes time and serious dedication.

>>20820680
>who could read plato without any difficulty
reading first time and re-reading are quite different businesses though

>>20820738
>I was happily reading fairly advanced texts in German, English and Japanese
Such as?

>>20820738
what's your native lang?

>Spanish
>German
>Italian
>French
>Latin
>Greek (all variants)
>Sanskrit
>Arabic (MSA & Classical)
>Russian
>Hebrew (Biblical)
Is this overboard if you want to be able to read all of these comfortably?

>g**gl* translates "latine" as "in English"
what do they mean by this

leno means pimp in latin. i wonder if jay leno knows.

>>20820789
Obviously, but shoot for the stars and you'll hit the moon.

>>20820870
>one chance at life
>wasn't born into generational wealth to begin receiving a classical education at age 5

>tfw you will never enjoy native, fluent latin and ancient greek by the time you're fucking 6

>>20820875
>generational wealth
His parents were teachers. Not particularly wealthy. He's famous because he was the most educated MP of the century and he was not rich.

>>20820870
>Five
It's fucking over.

>>20815074
whoever OP is thank you for the download stuff :)

>>20820870
>>20820875
>>20820882
>>20820893
>>20820884
LLSPI bro we have been btfo by a toddler...

>>20820870
I wish my parents had taught me anything useful.

OK my dad taught me chess, that's nice I guess.

>>20820884
>most educated MP
doesn't matter. education in classics means nothing in politics. boris johnson knows ancient greek and he memorized parts of the iliad and can recite them on command but he's still a shit politician.

>>20820937
The autism of LLSPI lovers

>>20820937
that's because he's an anglo

>>20820884
Sure chud, that's why he's famous.

How much time do I need to study ancient Greek to become able to read the Iliad?

>>20820952
>I did not fight in a war for my country to let bands of Indians roam it!
>ARRGH IM GOING INSANE
LLSPI freaks are evil

>>20820956
threefiddy

>>20820884
>>20820870
it's amazing what a difference it makes when your parents actually put thought and effort into educating you, instead of having you raised by the TV and the school system.

>>20820937
In addition to his achievements as a scholar, Enoch Powell accurately predicted how mass immigration would destroy British society half a century before the Rotherham scandal broke and it became clear that hundreds of thousands of English girls across the country were being systematically raped, pimped and abused by immigrants over the span of decades. That's a massive achuevement in its own right.
And sure, Boris Johnson is a scumbag, but he's nevertheless successful by definition since he attained the highest attainable position in government.

>>20820952
truly, classical languages allows you to peer into the future

>>20820972
where are you from?

>>20820988
>can't refute argument
>where are you from

LLPSI has been found to be highly problematic.
The next edition will center around a black transgender family's fight for the abolition of slavery and traditional gender norms:
https://thepatrologist.com/2021/08/19/whats-wrong-with-llpsi-part-2/

>>20821006
Its more problematic because its utter dogshit

>>20820996
i just want to know where you're from. why are you afraid to answer?

>>20821016
Why you afraid of us e um i o o?

>>20820988
I'm from Ancient Egypt, therefore my native language is Ebonics.

>>20821014
it's literally more thorough than wheelocks and it explains all the grammar in latin or not at all kek and goes at a faster pace

ubi revivit filum? in mense postremo mortuum fuit

>>20821029
>explains all the grammar in latin
EXACTLY the entire idea the author was trying would involve no grammar explanations at all but he even cocked up something as simple as that.

>>20821041
>ubi
means 'where' not 'who'. you want the word for "who"
you probably want the past tense for revivit too as in "who revived the thread?"
postremo doesn't mean what you think it means btw

>>20821042
this is sophism. the way the book is now, regardless of some immaterial intentions, is fine. maybe the reason you're butthurt at llpsi is because you got filtered, being a noob and needing your handheld by wheelock type explanations.

>>20821029
>explains all the grammar
Not the guy you were talking to and I hate to do this all over again, but ok.

>Amare infinitivus est
Just giving the names of grammatical features like "infinitivus" or "passivus" is not explaining grammar. The companion book which is a separate book actually explains the grammar in English.

I don't understand why people need to lie and exaggerate in these discussions. I'm very happy if you are enjoying the book, please keep using it. Can you just stop using hyperbole to hype the book out to be some kind of universal all-in-one package, because that's not what it is and you are negatively impacting people's studies by misleading them.

Can we talking about something else now?

>>20821108
>Can we talking about something else now?
yeah, let's talk about how people ITT are so pussy that they don't want to tell people where they're from. it's an ANONYMOUS site and they're still scared. how pathetic.

>>20815074
Is there anything worth reading in the old Egyptian languages? Learning middle Egyptian sounds fun, but I never hear about reading material from that era.

>>20821108
>Just giving the names of grammatical features like "infinitivus" or "passivus" is not explaining grammar.
It works perfectly fine if you have knowledge of grammatical terms and concepts, as you should before learning a language.
>Can you just stop using hyperbole to hype the book out to be some kind of universal all-in-one package, because that's not what it is and you are negatively impacting people's studies by misleading them.
I don't exclusively use LLPSI. I have other textbooks that I am using. And I absolutely think extensive grammar study is helpful in any lang.

>>20821129
I think it's mostly religious funerary texts. Also stuff from the walls inside tombs or temples. Most literature written on papyrus is probably in Coptic and Christian in nature.

im from the bronx

>>20821142
hey, i'm walkin' over here. capiche??

>>20821141
WHY, oh WHY did the egyptians arabize themselves? we could've had an unbroken connection to ancient egypt through coptic if they had just resisted the muslims.

>>20821139
>It works perfectly fine if you have knowledge of grammatical terms and concepts, as you should before learning a languag
Make up your mind. You people always do this, move the goalpost.

First you say it's "more thorough" and "explains" apparently "all the grammar". Now you are switching up and saying, "well actually you should already know that before you read the book". Can we just stop, because you guys look goofy at this point. I'm using the book too, stop lying about it. It's a fucking book, you don't need to defend it's honor.

>>20821144
You know the "ch" makes the "k" sound in Italian, right?

>>20821149
i have no idea who are you talking about (the so called esperanto tranny?). you're putting words in my mouth. i hardly post in this general.

>>20821152
gabagool, italiano-americano

>>20821148
>connection to ancient egypt through coptic
We do...

>>20821006
why does this guy *insist* on translating dominus as enslaver lol

>>20821163
Not my intention to do that. The person I was talking to said those things right here: >>20821029

If that's not you, then that's not my problem. You jumped in.

Also I'm not the tranny. The tranny is pro-LLPSI to a fault, not against it. I'm neutral I don't care about picking textbook teams. I'm just annoyed with people talking about these things like they are selling snake oil. It's gross and weird.

>>20821172
>https://twitter.com/GregoryStringer
This guy's Twitter feed gave me a headache in about 2 seconds.

First 4 tweets
>A Women's History of the Latin Language
>Rape, apotheosis, and politics in Metamorphoses 14
>Amid the fierce debate about the role of slavery in America’s founding and its contribution to ongoing inequalities, there’s been little attention devoted to how this debate relates to accounts of ancient slavery
>Augustine was the symbol of a more diverse and global Christianity that had been covered up by white-supremacist lies.

>>20821172
Because he hates Christians

>>20821173
seek help

>>20821184
>Augustine was the symbol of a more diverse and global Christianity that had been covered up by white-supremacist lies.

>>20821006
That was a tough read. A comment below the text (written by an actual academic) corrects the many errors made by the author and works as a little whitepill, unless people only read these things to get some sort of dopamine rush from their outrage.

>>20821006
it's baffling how the eternal anglobugman must ruin everything it touches

>>20821171
not really. coptic is a church language, not an every day language. christian egyptians use arabic for day to day things.

>>20821006
Iudaei anum mihi lambunt

>>20821193
He left out the other half of that
>"Augustine was the symbol of a more diverse and global Christianity that had been covered up by white-supremacist lies. 'The greatest thinkers of the early Church came from Africa!' I declared to amused peers. My Augustine was Black."

>>20821220
I'm exhausted at this point.

>>20821220
>My Camus was black!

>>20821201
americans are not anglo-saxon. they're irish, german, italian, mexican and black.

>>20821230
poor excuse, island anglomonkeys are even worse when it comes to polluting the classics with their garbage culture

>>20821006
>written by an anglo """teacher""" who reads and recommends strange power fantasy smut for his followers

>>20821281
This guy's feed is a trip

>>20821129
I can't read Egyptian beyond recognizing a few heroglyphs, but I've read English and German translations of a good deal of the surviving Egyptian writings.
I enjoyed the Tale of Two Brothers, the story of the Shipwrecked Sailor and some parts of the Book of the Dead (which along with the Book of Gates gives a VERY detailed view of how the Egyptians thought the afterlife would be).
Then there's the wisdom literature that you might get something out of:
http://www.per-ankh.co.uk/monuments_of_egypt/literature_and_hieroglyphs/ancient_egyptian_literature_wisdom_texts.asp

Beyond that, lots of magic spells, prayers, and self-aggrandizing tomb inscriptions.
If you're into comparative religion studies it's interesting because Egyptian religion had a big impact on the Greeks, and likely on the Hebrews as well. Some Egyptian wisdom literature appears to have found its way into the Book of Psalms, Akhenaten has long been speculated to have had an influence on the creation of Judaism, and then there's this guy who thinks Jesus is based on the Egyptian god Shezmu:
https://odysee.com/@CJBbooks.com:8/Shezmu_720:c

There are lots of audio recordings of translated Egyptian literature, e.g.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Afj5YwxpZWo (entire Book of the Dead, albeit in the outdated E.A. Wallis Budge translation)
https://odysee.com/@altrusiangracemedia:1/great-hymn-to-the-aten-ancient-egyptian:1
https://odysee.com/@altrusiangracemedia:1/the-burden-of-isis-ancient-egyptian-full:e

>>20821323
>heroglyphs
I mean hieroglyphs of course

Why do white men talk like this?

>>20821341
(((albus)))

>>20821323
Is there anything like proto-Pythagoreanism to read? I knew the Egyptians influenced the Greeks but it would be interesting to see stuff like Plato written by Egyptians.

>>20821341
not white nor a man

>>20821148
Due to the languages and cultures I'm interested in, I often lament the Islamic conquest--the expansion of Arabs and Islam. The Assyrians are limited similarly to the Copts. If they were uninhibited by their Arab/Islamic neighbors, we could have a better understanding of the ancient Assyrians.

>>20821366
While not exactly Plato, you might be interested to know that gnosticism came from Egypt. There are probably plenty of Neo-Platonists living in Alexandria too, but I don't think that's what you had in mind.

>>20821429
>There are probably plenty of Neo-Platonists living in Alexandria too,
what? even now?

>>20817471
shit latin. better shut up next time

>>20821439
obviously those people figured out the secrets of eternal life

>>20821341
Yall went deep, I couldn't make it past the first 5 or so tweets. Dude is a whacked the fuck out.

>>20821475
go ahead and show him the right way, then. surely you can... right?

Any Greekbros want to help me out?
Where should one start with Greek tragedy? Are there any good entry-level plays?

>>20821551
my life is a tragedy

>>20821547
not waisting my time with that shit

>>20821547
not wasting my time with that shit

Is the Cambridge Greek Lexicon reliable?

>>20821006
> all the characters are drawn as pale skinned “white,”
> This is also despite ostensible diversity of the characters, especially enslaved people of Iulius’ household as based on their names or backstories (Syra and Syrus, presumably coming from Syria, Medus we learn comes from Athens, etc.).
Greeks confirmed BLACK.

>>20821551
Euripides

>no latin erotica tonight

>>20821551
I recommend the Oresteia, especially if you read Homer first, but if you haven't, you'll be fine with a surface understanding of the Iliad.
You can watch the whole trilogy here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoyDkBs2HSDzh5iqaP8rOXA/videos

>>20822709
I've read it in translation but I was more looking for a play with easier greek.

>>20821366
if there is, it's probably hidden in an allegorical story about the gods that an unpoetic sperg like me can't decipher.

There does exist a paper that relates some of the contents of the Book of the Dead to advanced concepts in Mathematics and Nuclear Physics that I have no understanding of:
https://vixra.org/pdf/1310.0130v1.pdf

It looks like Europeans are the main posters in this thread. The bulk of the traffic in the past couple days has been in the North American morning.

>>20821706
Yes, it is very good. The only reason to not use it is that Logeion exists and Cambridge is not included. I own both volumes and am happy with my purchase. Now, I want to buy a pocket Autenrith.

miraglia furens
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a61Dc_EFuI4

>>20823008
he criticizes people who talk latin to talk about "mcdonals", but also talks about the necessity of experiencing the language first hand to experience it.
isn't "talking about mcdonalds" just a simple way to practice it? Am I missing something? (Are there any people who talk about fast food restaurants as an end in itself without connexion with classical latin culture?)

>>20823057
>talk about fast food restaurants
in Latin, I mean

>>20823008
around minute 25
about grammarfags lmao

>>20823008
sl;dl (shit latin; didn't listen)

>>20823008
2/10 didn't even sing the presentation in dactylic hexameter

could I get a tl:dr on cum clauses

>>20824180
latin is cringe

even reddit has a better latin output than this shit general

>>20824409
be the change you want to see

>>20824412
quid mehercule hic scriberem?

>>20824409
If you judge the quality of a discussion in classics based on its Latin output, you are a pseud. There's a lot more to classics than Latin.

>ipse vero mirandum in modum 'reges odisse superbos' [dixit]
>he himself 'hates proud grandees' quite remarkably
why is loeb like this? what the fuck even is a grandee?

>>20824502
>There's a lot more to classics than Latin.
Like one person ITT posts in Greek.

>>20824510
>grandee
An official aristocratic title conferred on some Spanish nobility.

>>20824521
"reges" means kings, tyrants (in reference to pompey and caesar)

>>20824516
Your problem is that you don't understand why learning Latin and Greek is worthwhile. It's to read the classics. Plato's dialogues don't consist of two people shitposting in a second language they are only beginning to comprehend.

>>20824516
I'm learning Greek and I'd have no problem with it if I'd never speak a word of it with someone else.
I'm learning it to have access to a millennium worth of literature and historical records, as well as to get a more intuitive understanding of Greek loanwords in modern languages.

>>20824180
here:
https://www.thelatinlibrary.com/101/cumclauses.pdf

>>20824675
this. i don't want to compose latin. i want to read it. there's no point in learning classical languages to communicate with them. you might as well learn esperanto for that or any other modern language.

>>20824727
>esperanto
don't summon the troon

>>20822794
tragedy will always be harder to read than any prose. Aeschylus and Sophocles are probably two of the hardest if not the hardest to read authors in the Greek canon. I guess you can try Euripides, he's a bit easiery, but don't expect Plato or Xenophon language.

latine scribere optime ad sei ipsius cognitionem linguae probandam, quia necesse est cogitare quidque verbum et grammaticam de quibus usus est. forte aliquis etiam mendas sententiarum tui emendabit

Are there any really easy Latin texts to start reading after reading through a grammar primer?

I mean actual texts and not just LLPSI

>>20817471
Basatus

>>20825327
the vulgate is easy. if you don't like jewish/christian stuff, then just try caesar (the gallic war)

>>20825264
sl;dr
(shit latin;didn't read)

>>20825373
fonlr (fuck off, non latin reader)

>>20825381
>reads latin unironically
ew
learn a real classical language like Greek or Hebrew or Chinese

>>20815074
hello anons. I need a translation of an old jewish text.
it's just one page. Can someone help me?
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=35004&st=&pgnum=7&hilite=

How do I get an ancient Roman gf
I have been learning Latin for 8 months now

>>20825505
>fly to italy
>dig up some ancient roman lady's bones
>figure out a way to reanimate the dead
>???
>profit!!!

>>20825505
The 8-Step Extensive Ranieri Method (Lucian Pronunciation)

>>20825509
Based and Lady Grey pilled

>>20825509
>>20825528
I just think they are really beautiful

>>20825509
>>20825528
I just really like them

>>20825505
sorry, they only fuck Big Gladiatorial Cock

How are you supposed to know which syllables to stress in Latin?
I just can't wrap my head around how there's a stressed syllable AND multiple long vowels in the same word. Which ones do I pronounce harder, so to speak? Am I just supposed to drawl like a retard like Ranieri does?

Take this example from wikipedia:
ū•ni•cor•nis
Do you read U-ni-COR-nis? Like a sort of singalong where you pitch your voice high, low, high, low?
Or uuuu-ni-COR-nis?

It just sounds dumb. If anything it reminds me of Norwegians and their weird, SUDDEN stresses in THE middle of SENTENCES

>>20825692
Accented syllable is stressed, 'pronounced harder' so to speak. Long vowels are longer than their short counterparts. You don't have to drag them out like a retard, just slightly longer than normal.

>>20825692
you only stress the penultimate or antepenultimate syllables, ū is simply pronounced like a syllable two morae long, not uuuuuuuuu

>mea facies cum nulli amici anonymi cum quibus exerceri in scriptura sermonis latini
cur absconditi estis?

>>20825692
Wheelock intro covers this. Apparently there are only a handful of simple rules that allow you to figure out the "correct" pronunciation of any Latin word in existence even if you've never heard of it. Like a flow diagram almost. Nothing like English.

>>20825712
which btw I believe is almost imperceptible to "untrained" ears (japanese does a similar classification of syllables and I can't distinguish them: do you clearly perceive as long or short a syllable depending if it's closed or open?)
No idea how to "train the ears", though.

Why yes, I'm learning Latin to read Latin translations of modern children's literature

>>20825744
uti saepe a nonnullis recte fatum, desunt argumenta ad sermones fructiferos habendos
quidnam enim nobis confabulando? fatui garritus celeriter taediosi se praebent

Aren't tau and theta basically the same letter if theta is an aspired t?

>>20825840
>if theta is an aspired t
-> no, if it's a clearly different sound to the speakers, it makes sense to have different letters

>>20825840
It's like a tau but when it precedes an aspired vowel

>>20825846
It's just a tau sound and then and aspiration, it's two different sounds.

>>20825840
In English B is basically the same letter as P, just voiced

>>20825850
well doesn't matter how you break it down a posteriori, greeks have created not one but three different letters for their three aspirated consonants for a precise reason, it is one consonant to them, even if their rendering begins similarly to the unaspirated ones

>>20825870
Sure, but it is not a sound composed of two different utterances.

Quare sunt Harry Potteris incantationes in Latine?
Aegyptus velut Graecia erant regiones ubi incolabant multi magi.
Habebat Roma traditiones magicas?

>>20825876
What three letters?

>>20825892
φ, θ, χ = πʰ, τʰ, κʰ

>>20825832
Eaedem res quae anglice discurruntur. Hoc de classicis sermonibus filum est, de iis ipsis loquemur. Lingua latina ad se ipsam tractandam sufficit.
Verbi gratia, quid melius ad linguam discendam est, faciles res legere aut discere grammaticam?
Disputationes nugarum utiles tunc fiunt, quia utiles fiunt ad ignoratiam nostram (mea multa est) mostrandam et, ergo, corrigendam; mea sententia.

>>20825890
auctrix videlicet harrii potteri narratuum haurit plerumque a fontibus mediaevalibus et igitur magia mediaevale, non antiquis

>>20825890
fortasse quia anglici lectores facilius recognoscant [¿aut agnoscant aut alium verbum? nescio quid recte sit] latinas voces quam aegyptias aut graecas. Anglica et latina lingua non nulla cognata habent.

>>20825922
merus ut sim, abessent vero isti duo vel quotcumque sint pauci anglice garritores iugiter in menses disputantes de eodem vieto argumento, anglice quoque iam nemo diutius loqueretur, quod nugulae sunt
me cum sciscitatus est, ambo valde prosunt, profecto minime pretii est hoc diutius disserere, omnes qui quibuslibet linguis periti facti sunt legendo et grammaticam discendo hoc impetraverunt
num sane opus est nobis de hoc disputare? minime, credo

>>20825890
>Gandalferino
lol
Quomodo dicitur "gandalf the grey", Gandolfus Cinereus?

>>20825899
F is not the same thing as p^h.

>>20826011
>F
I'm talking about five century BC pronunciation, which was still aspirated π

>>20826011
What does that have to do with anything? Do you see an 'F' in the post you are quoting?

>>20826018
Yes, I see a φ. The original poster has already responded, forget about it.

>>20826011
how can you be wrong even when you are right?

>>20826037
wait until you learn what digamma is

>>20826052
I know what it is

>>20826066
You know digamma but don't know how to pronounce φ?

>>20826005
>num sane opus est nobis de hoc disputare?
Non, certe, "verbi gratia" dixit.
Sane, legere utillimum ad discendum est, sed tamen censeo linguā uti non futile esse.
Quaerere quod quaerendum esse, ut nunc agimus [¿agimus, facimus?], iam fructuosus est, mea sententia.

Greekbros, should someone who has "finished" so to speak grammar and basic vocabulary familiarization with Attic jump straight to Homer? or is it better to be a bit more patient and gnaw at something softer, I don't know, Xenophon?
as I understand it, once you get past the quirks of the Homeric language it's not as hard as one may think? hell, apparently some teach Greek starting from Homer itself

>>20825899
I think a same consonant can be classified as voiced, unvoiced or aspirated. You could write
b, d, g = p*, t*, k*
and say that the letters b d g are superfluous

>>20826130
Read what you want. If you want to read Homer go for it. The dialect is not that different from Attic and will only take a little while to get down. The hardest part will be vocabulary

So what is the best pronunciation of Greek to read Plato and Aristotles (the most faithful to 4th century attic pronunciation)

>>20825460
How come?

>>20826162
check out baldman's sheet, it's pretty good
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fv46XgPPJy-ky9FUSApiemOVmtc8i6q7ZL5XkqtmMWA/edit#gid=1919026778
main differences from the erasmian one people are often taught should be the aspirated consonant sounds of course, the ει diphthong pronounced as long /e/, sibilant /s/, z as /zd/, and the pitch accent which IIRC some skip

WARNING
shit latin ITT

>>20826322
CAVE
Digiti dupli in hoc filo
Optimus, magnificus

If someone if wondering why the assertion "shit latin" is always true, it's because latin is always shit no matter how's it written

>>20825890
Pig latin

Latin should be banned not only from this thread, but from this entire board, specially if eccl*siastical. Lat*n pigs could still post on /s4s/ though.

latinas were made for BIG LLPSI COCK

We are divided against the pig (aka l*tin) menace, since us, as free human beings, opposed to the mob of r*man drones, have chosen different languages to study. The variety of classical languages is great. But we all should choose one to learn and make it the "official" language of /clg/, in order to displace those stinky larpers and their never ending nonsensical arguments. Without any doubt any of us will be able to study one more language (not like quirinal monkeys).
Some (typical) suggestions:
>Chinese
>Hebrew
>Sanskrit
>Gothic
>Arabic
>Greek
Which one should we pick? (feel free to suggest others.)

>>20826432
>Latin should be banned
Just stop there.

>>20826577
>Hebrew, Gothic
Not Classical. Neither had a large impact across cultures.

>>20826577
Medieval Galaico-Portuguese

No but really, every language but Latin and Greek is largely irrelevant. Studying these 2 languages is the bare minimum for a humanistic education, unless you're a niche academic, in which case, you're better off dead anyway.

>>20826582
They should have their own contentment thread at least.

>>20826591
>Sanskrit
>Irrelevant
>>20826590
Hebrew, even if it has revived, it's still an ancient classical language with a mich longer and rich tradition than the L-language

I would be OK with studying Greek though.

>>20826591
>classical chinese is irrelevant
>classical Hebrew is irrelevant
>sanskrit is irrelevant
>classical arabic is irrelevant

>>20826591
I can assure you that Sanskrit is not irrelevant at all. There are as many texts written in Sanskrit as there are Greek, if not more. Also, Vedic Sanskrit is so insanely beautiful that I can't put it into words. If you like ultra inflected languages then Vedic Sanskrit will knock your socks off.

>the L-language

>>20826626
Yes. In the western world, at least, which is the world that matters.

>>20826605
We had an exclusively Latin general a while back, which caused /clg/ to quickly die because there weren't enough users to sustain it with these marginal languages

So, which one should we start learning? I vote for Sanskrit and Greek.

>>20826626
Yes

>>20826677
>he western world, which is the world that matters

>>20826677
>We had an exclusively Latin general a while back, which caused /clg/ to quickly die because there weren't enough users to sustain it with these marginal languages
Because the interests of people were divided. With an "official" language that we all will be learning this won't happen again.
And if a thread survives only because of LLPSI shitpost, it's not worth it to keep it alive.

>>20826194
>ει diphthong pronounced as long /e/
Wrong. You really should not take that man's advice on anything.

here we go already with fucking monkeys trying to ruin the thread again with improbable splits just because they got massively filtered by Latin
just ignore them and move on, thread is doing fine and hitting 310+ replies with no problem

>>20826705
Says who? There are plenty of people here learning Latin and asking questions in between the LLPSI shitposting. It's certainly not a worse thread than the rest of /lit/

>>20826694
Unironically yes, commie

>>20826719
>Wrong.
Wrong. it was pronounced as [e:] as you can see in any basic Attic book with reconstructed pronunciation or even Wiktionary

>>20826743
in some instances the diphtong is genuine and is pronounce as e+i, in others it arises due to variouss phonetic changes, like contraction, and is spurious.

We should pick Greek. Sanskrit and Chinese may have been historically more influential, but we are still westeners and should rather focus on our own roots, in order to understand our own culture better. It's also probably easier to obtain consensus about learning Greek than to decide which "extra-foreign" (all classical languages are foreign) classical language we should pick. Those languages from foreign cultures are probably better understood through translations made by people belonging to those cultures, anyways.

Fuck Ossian
and
Fuck Scots

>>20826729
>310+ replies about Familia Romana

>>20826617
>revived
It isn't. Hebrew has been a living language for 2000 years after it stopped being spoken to children.
>with a mich longer and rich tradition than the L-language
And its only influence is on Jewish culture and language.

>>20826786
Sanskrit is an Aryan language. Nazi Germans studied it very intently.

>>20826789
This is the Classical languages thread

Think about it. Greek then? If we start, we will be doing it for real (not like the Senpai. Rom. read-alongs). See you all in the next thread.
Remember that just a little effort will be necessary to free the general from you know who.

>>20826822
>free the general from you know who.
who???

>>20826826
the llpsi pigs

>>20826826
Llspi spastics who think being taught things in your native language means you can't learn another despite everyone doing that for the past 4000 years

>>20826818
maybe you should try learning about other cultures, too

>>20826833
>>20826834
welp.. i'm one of those LLPSI people.. guess i should leave them..
*shuffles out of the thread*

non morituri latine vobis salutant
AVE
(quia filum vestrum morietur)

>>20826834
based

>20826864
shit latin

>pick up Latin grammar primer
>immediately begins to use highly technical grammatical jargon
>refuses to elaborate

are classical languages one of these exclusive clubs that only lets you in if you already know someone inside?

>>20826936
what's the book called?

>>20826946
Kennedy's Revised Latin Primer

>>20826956
>Originally published: 1888
this is probably why. just using something a bit more modern. wheelock's is good.

>>20826936
>Latin
that's where you went wrong

>>20826971
>>20826971
>>20826971

if LLPSI posters weren't bad enough now /clg/ has been taken over by people who aren't at the process of studying any classical languages. only thing that has remained the same is the meathead tribal mentality of the few vocal latin """learners""".
goodbye, clg.

goodbye you wont be missed

>>20827163
ἔρρωσο, σύ μονόγλωττε νωθρέ

ye like i said ur crippled greek wont be missed theres the door

>>20827234
can you say that in any classical language? hell, can you say that in any other language at all?

>>20827260
Кaк я yжe cкaзaл, вaш иcкaлeчeнный гpeк нe пpoпaдeт, вoт двepь.

>>20827280
so you are a native russian then. that explains your stupidity and hostility.

>>20825509
>>20825505
yep the Greek Magical Papyri might be of help

LAST

>>20824727
If you wanna speak a language to talk to trannies, learn Thai, their trannies are hotter

>>20826962
>Originally published: 1888
>this is probably why. just using something a bit more modern. wheelock's is good.
Dooge is old but still great

>>20816270
No. you should omit ego, tu, and even ea. there is no reason to write them in situations like this.

>>20828752
in fact, ea doesn't technically correspond to the english pronoun at all in many situations it means something closer to "that," and its gender is more often used just to agree with whatever noun is talking about and not the female gender

>>20825879
Th in Greek is not two different utterances. We simply use two letters to represent a single sound. For something similar, think of ch in English.