/lit/ - Literature

>>20814621
what is legit or not is always a matter of perspective. how can morality be anything but relative?

>>20814628
Thanks leftist but the adults are talking

>>20814621
plato debunks moral relativism in the protagoras, the leaf is just retarded

>>20814621
First of all, it's not an argument, it's just a statement. Statement that's half trivial (the forms were unscientific, well no shit Sherlock) and half retarded (whatever connection he found between the forms and moral relativism must be some far-fetched sophomoric drivel). Instead of listening to memelords, find yourself some real philosophers to learn from, youtube is full of them.

>if you park people in shitty neighborhoods, wipe out their culture and feed them nothing but consumerist shit culture, they behave like fucktards

Wow that's a massive revelation, thanks argumentman

>>20814632
If you put things into leftist and adults then you’re retarded. Explain how you can assert what is the True path

>>20814643
>it's everyone's fault except mine!

>>20814650
Can you tell me where I say this?

>>20814649
Is it morally right to sexually abuse a 4 year old? Any sane person would say no and anyone else would be a psychopath

>>20814643
Yes Anon. Every one of my moral failings is also due to purely socio-economic factors.

>>20814653

Right here
>>20814643

>>20814658
And I specifically say that nothing's their fault, and not that there are massive factors at work here that makes the numbers of argumentman a bit dubious?

Or are you actually going to admit you're just a retarded chud?

>>20814656
>purely socio-economic factors.
>wipe out their culture and feed them nothing but consumerist shit culture

Are chuds actually literate? Holy shit

>>20814664
>massive factors at work here

Yes those factors include welfare, corrupt morals of the black community, drug use and absent fathers. None of which were 'done' to them like you implied

>>20814667
>wipe out their culture

What fucking culture are you referring to?lmao

>>20814668
You're right, when you completely wipe out someone's culture, that will absolutely have no effect on them

>>20814670
The one before the American trash culture they subscribe to today

If anything, black crime is just more proof that America is a tumor growing on human civilization

>>20814667
I don't think that's relevant, sorry. It's certainly not a sufficient excuse for rape and murder even if your conspiracy theories about wiping out their culture were correct.

>>20814672
>The one before the American trash culture they subscribe to today

Which was what exactly?! Cmon, please elaborate on this amazing black culture that once existed that I was unaware of

>>20814684
Yes I would also like to hear this.

>>20814684
Much of it still exists in Africa. They're just oral traditions that were passed on from one generation to another. This is a tradition that gave a background of meaning and purpose and if you take that away, just like with the white school shooter, people will get depressed and nihilistic.

Once again, all of this stuff is just proof that consumer culture is dogshit

>>20814696
>Much of it still exists in Africa
Yeah, I agree. Necklacing for example.

>>20814621
>Is Stefan Molyneuxs
no. find someone else to pay attention to

>>20814707
He's great though. I never understood what people's objections to him are.

>>20814714
he's a hack

just because he legitimates /pol/-tier scientific racism doesn't make him 'based', it just means you're a pathetic faggot

if you're lucky, maybe one day you'll realize why no girls ever talk to you

>>20814714
Basically just the fact that he scientifically invalidates egalitarianism. Not that you really need science for that, but he just sets it out in concrete terms, which infuriates certain types.

>>20814719
So what you're saying is, he says things you don't like and also I'm an incel.

Solid argument bro, thanks.

>>20814719
>scientific racism

You mean, science?

>>20814696
>Much of it still exists in Africa. They're just oral traditions that were passed on from one generation to another. This is a tradition that gave a background of meaning and purpose and if you take that away, just like with the white school shooter, people will get depressed and nihilistic.

Africa is a shit hole because of black culture, how exactly would bringing those shit hole ideas to the US blacks help exactly???

>>20814723
>>20814724
if you were actually interested in the ideas, there's a whole mountain of evidence against scientific racism just waiting out there for you. go and look into it.

but we know you won't, because you're just a /pol/ faggot who feels like a loser so must construct a reason to be superior on ANY level he can, such as race.

look, we all know you're a pathetic faggot. the only step from me now is reporting your shitty thread so the jannies can throw you in the garbage bin

>>20814733
Lmao triggered libtard

Please link this debunking you claim exists

Inb4
>slate
>vox
>CNN

>>20814733
>there's a whole mountain of evidence against scientific racism just waiting out there for you. go and look into it.
No there isn't. All of it is selective ignorance of certain facts or just trying to explain them away via appeals to ignorance. Try actually reading or watching some of Molyneux, which I know you have not, because your posts are just kneejerk reactions to le ebul alt right man.

>>20814733
>you should argue in good faith
>I won't though, I will repeatedly insult you and try and get the thread deleted

>>20814621
Why did you post your thread with this image? I was interested in Plato but the whole thread is /pol/bait.

I remember that video. IIRC Moly uses victimization survey data and not the regular crime stats, so you can't just say 'cops be racis'

>>20814761
Sorry it was the only relevant image I had, i now realise my stupidity.

Do you have an opinion on the Plato thing?

>>20814781
Yes. What he said is retarded. Science is a method of learning about the sensible world through empirical reasoning. The forms necessarily preclude scientific observation because they exist beyond our imperfect sense perception (what we perceive is only a map of the actual object) and give the sensible world basis in reality (through reason) in the first place. A Platonist would say an ontology that divides everything purely into ‘scientific’ and ‘unscientific’ is incredibly crude and self-refuting as it cannot explain the observer, i.e. the mind.
Hope that makes sense.

>molyneux proves that asians are the master race yet again

>>20814824
I seriously have no issue with that. I think it's a misconception that racists are unwilling to admit the superiority of other races.

Rape is lower than homicide. Also homicide rate is measured by over 100,000.
Kinda sad how he made a lot money targeting gullible and aimless males to siphon all of their money. He even made a teenager homeless

>>20814839
>Rape is lower than homicide. Also homicide rate is measured by over 100,000.
Can you explain how that's relevant at all?

>image
Oh, so I guess increases in rape aren't an issue as long as they don't exceed the historical maximum?

Molyneux recommended me picrel which has allowed me to derail almost every argument about slavery I have been a part of. For that alone he is based.

>>20814836
Pretty much. It’s become a meme at this point that the midwit liberal is, ironically enough, more racist than the topwit race realist.
>t. Brown race realist

>>20814839
I'll always remember when he was trying to start a literal cult and trying to get his member to defoo their families which essentially meant cutting off all contact. It got so bad that his wife, who is a psychiatrist or some shit had her license revoked for being associated with his cult. Hilarious stuff.

>>20814861
First of all, source?

Second of all
>he did bad therefore everything he did is bad
is not an argument

>>20814864
This is 4chan, so I don't know exactly what kind of a "source" you would accept, but just look at his wiki, it has links to relevant news articles on him. Here, for example, is The Guardian naming Molyneux as the founder of "Freedomain Radio" and quoting him directly regarding deFOOing. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2008/nov/15/family-relationships-fdr-defoo-cult

>>20814864
Also, if a dude has "failed cult leader" on his life's resume, I think it's fair to be hyper skeptical of literally everything else he does in his life. Sorry.

>>20814880
So no source for his wife losing her license or him starting a cult?

>>20814890
Sure, but then you're not qualified to address his arguments.

>>20814621
Molymeme has never had a legitimate criticism of anything

>>20814896
Do you need to be literally spoodfed everything? Go to the article and look up the source for the "professional investigation into Molyneux's wife".

>>20814904
Very sophisticated opinion Anon, thanks for that.

>>20814917
Okay. I did and neither of those articles say she got her license revoked. Just reprimanded and ordered to take classes and stop giving advice online.

>>20814621
eceleb grifter vs father of philosophy. Hylics never stood a chance.

>>20814671
>completely wipe out someone's culture
Fortunately their 'culture' is preserved in Africa, a shining beacon for all of humanity
I hope blacks move into your neighborhood

>>20814643
But this applies equally to other races
Why do lefty shill arguments always rely on the presumption that poor whites do not exist

>>20814817
>Hope that makes sense.

I think so, forgive me if I'm wrong but is it inaccurate to say that philosophy should be logical, scientific or provable? I am not sure how the forms fall into any of those categories.

>>20814621
>paved the way for moral relativism
Holy fucking retard

>>20814846
Just pointing out his lies. Are you aware that the increase is a 0.000001 difference. You can't even contextualize a number this small.

>>20814628
The Bible prescribes objective moral commandments + The truth of the Bible has been vindicated by miracles and the fulfillment of prophecies + You're a faggot leftist + Seethe & dilate + YWNBAW

Kinda funny because Lyndon LaRouche made the exact same argument except for Aristotle for deemphasizing Plato's Universals and thus beginning untethering morality from any transcendental grounds.

>>20815713
The bible was written 150 years after the events took place. It has been altered, changed, removed and edited by countless people. Tell me how it can possibly be objective you dumb cunt.

There is only one objective truth, might makes right, all othere are subjective. Anything moral that the bible blindly stumbles across is stolen wholensale from other, older creeds.

>>20814643
>external locus of control rationalization

Oof.

>>20814643
It takes some amount of mental ability to not turn the place you live in to a festering pile of shit that people actively avoid going through. These people can not do that.

Look at their music, their fashion, their cars, their hair, their aesthetic, their mode of talking, their values. Every aspect of their culture is repugnant. I do not think they should be subsidized any longer. Let them eat each other alive.

>>20815713
>The truth of the Bible has been vindicated by miracles and the fulfillment of prophecie

Is this a legitimate criticism? Yes.

>>20814918
Very seething faggoty reply anon. Fuck your mother for that

>>20814621
>>the forms were unscientific and paved the way for moral relativism
This is like babby's first Plato.

>>20815695
You're just framing it with a small number because it's convenient for your argument lol
Someone read 'how to lie with statistics'

>>20814839
Break it down by ethic group. Then what percent that ethnic group is of the whole.

>>20814684
Tribal culture is unironically better than American culture.

>>20816489
>be most nomadic
>never invent wheel
>never domesticate animal large than dog
>literally drag garbage belongings in dirt and shit behind animal herd

Truly, an amazing culture.

>>20814621
He cant tell the difference between the particular and the universal, any critic he can have is null because of this.

>>20816518
>be American
>consume overprocessed goyslop from the day you are born.
>consume meaningless mass media designed for the lowest common denominator
>live in a system that replaces art, spirituality, and human connection with materialism and constant pleasure-seeking hedonism
>export this shitty culture around the world.

Truly, an amazing culture.

>>20816149
Are you going to ignore that the total percentage is smaller than 0.00001%?

>>20815741
>>20815822
Seethe and dilate, trannies

>>20814684
Levitating pyramids with sneakers

>>20816037
>just framing it with a small number because it's convenient for your argument
Homicide Is overall a doward trend. But if somebody told me that there's a 5/100000 chance of something happening I won't be worried and paranoid like you. We have more death through suicide than homicide.

>>20814621
>unscientific = bad
Refuted in the republic
>paved the way for moral relativism
Culture war grifters are braindead

>>20816920
I completely disagree. I think crime against body and property is unacceptable for any reason. 1 in 20000 is a huge fucking amount.

>>20816946
Why don't you have any concern for the ever growing suicide rate? Even obesity is many times more lethal than Homicide. Why is your paranoia and worries are only on a marginal issue that was worst in the 90's?

>>20814621
>Stefan Molyneuxs
Who?

>>20816974
I don't see it as a marginal issue. I also don't see suicide as immoral.

>>20815713
>The Quran prescribes objective moral commandments + The truth of the Quran has been vindicated by miracles and the fulfillment of prophecies + You're a faggot leftist + Seethe & dilate + YWNBAW
You are al the same. Claiming "objective morals" is meaningless, all morals are subjective, just look at all the different ways of interpreting the same "objective" commandments. Grow up, there isn't a sky daddy who will do all your moral thinking for you so you just have to fall in and obey like a tiny child.

>>20816876
Im Scottish.

>>20816890
Because there is a slightly smaller shit in my haggis does not preclude the fact there is a shit in my haggis.

>>20816902
You will never get to heaven.

>>20817015
>You are al the same. Claiming "objective morals" is meaningless, all morals are subjective, just look at all the different ways of interpreting the same

The fact that they are subjective should be clear by the fact that there is an Old Testament, otherwise known as the Torah, and the New Testament. If any of it was objective why the remake?

>>20814628
Sounds like you are saying Hitler was right and every people needs it's own space since they have their own subjective morality, and no one should have to live under some others people's concept of morality

>>20817270
He was, but not for the reason you stipulate.

>>20814643
The neighbourhoods were not shitty before they were put there moron

>>20814621
>the forms were unscientific
True
>and paved the way for moral relativism
Most retarded criticism I've ever heard. Plato was a totalitarian moral realist who literally argued that the perfect state would be a communist-fascist caste system that would enforce objective morality on the citizenry by lying if necessary.

>>20814643
based and correct

incels (i don't like the word chud, it obfuscates the sexual origin) with their perennial dunning-krueger should get either re-educated or exterminated evolutionarily

>>20817336
>who literally argued that the perfect state would be a communist-fascist caste system that would enforce objective morality on the citizenry by lying if necessary.
limited leftard interpretation

if you remove Plato from His Time in a hegelian/pneumatological way, Plato is a liberal at heart

>>20814621
He's not even making an argument, he's setting up an invented, *interpreted* position as an example of what he disagrees with implicitly so that he can use it as fodder, so that he doesn't have to, like Plato did, assert exactly what he means. If you ask me, this actually sounds pretty relativist.
This is why people voluntarily read Plato, but why most people with some sense always come to abandon their friends who somehow, once a month, manage to ask under the veil of postirony, revealing their bleeding insecurity beneath; "You hate me, don't you?"

>>20817360
>if you remove Plato from His Time in a hegelian/pneumatological way,
Yes, if I interpret a philosopher in a completely different way according to philosophers who lived thousands of years later, he may be interpreted to mean the opposite of what he wrote.

Plato believed there was a single, absolute, objective Good for all humans and that the goal of the state was to enforce said Good.

>>20817354
Reminder this tripfag is 20 years old