/lit/ - Literature

>>20793658
Realisation of the organic form of society as society-for-itself, inclusive of biology or socio-biology, as per Kant's definition of organicism in the Third Critque but affirming its constitutive nature as per Schelling and Hegel.

>>20793658
It's mostly a snarl term, like a lesser form of calling someone a fascist or nazi. The closest thing it has to an actual meaning would be something like "when a demographic wants to get rid of democracy and replace it with a ideological/ethnic state that appeals to them alone instead of being multicultural" e.g. Christian nationalism meaning the state enforces Christian morality through abortion bans instead of respecting atheism or religions that don't care about abortion.

Shiet, I just read this book like 3 weeks ago, I’ll get back to you with my notes in about an hour,

>>20793658
Finding an Economic and culturally foundation for a national people united in peculiarities to find it’s placed under the sun. Nation is a value used as its own self-validating object. Nationalism is good because it’s the root of all existence currently. This existence by necessity of collectivity is Dasein. Fully realizing Heidegger‘s as the human being rests on a conceptually prior grasp of Being. Thus Dasein belongs essentially to a world as it possesses a primordial understanding of the world as well as of the entities within it. Being then runs through human beings to philosophical anthropology. Thus human beings cannot be understood as a rational animal on the ancient Greek model or in terms of Christian theology; it must be grasped through its own existence, or innermost possibility. Meaning that the authenticity of Dasein is to embody the values aka culture, language, and ethnicity of a group. In this sense the nation is the embodiment of the entire will of the individual.

>>20793710
you have never read Heidegger

>>20793658
There's only one nation, the nation of Iceland. All other countries are federations, kingdoms, tribal confederacies, police states etc. The only functioning large scale volunteer organization on the planet is the Icelandic search and rescue. The Icelandic people and culture have direct roots in ancient Ionian Greece. No country produces as much literature per capita. All you lesser plebs are doing is trying to imitate your Icelandic teachers poorly. The future is Icelandic, deal with it.

>>20793658
I once met a Pakistani Hindu who immigrated to Australia. He still loved Pakistan and sang its praises(with some criticism)

Shit made me question my own blind nationalism

>>20793713
Stop projecting

Ok here are my notes, I’ll break them down intonations multiple posts because they’re pretty long lol

Imagined Communities, Benedict Anderson, 1983

Main points:

1. Anderson has this helpful habit of providing summaries at the end of each chapter most of the time. IMO every author should do this.

2. Newspapers played a key role in creating imagined communities, because reading the news is in fact a communal activity.
>“Essentially, I have been arguing that the very possibility of imagining the nation only arose historically when, and where, three fundamental cultural conceptions, all of great antiquity, lost their axiomatic grip on men’s minds.
>The first of these was the idea that a particular script-language offered privileged access to ontological truth, precisely because it was an inseparable part of that truth. […]
>Second was the belief that society was naturally organized around and under high centres – monarchs who were persons apart from other human beings and who ruled by some form of cosmological (divine) dispensation. […]
>Third was a conception of temporality in which cosmology and history were indistinguishable, the origins of the world and of men essentially identical. >Combined, these ideas rooted human lives firmly in the very nature of things, giving certain meaning to the everyday fatalities of existence (above all death, loss, and servitude) and offering, in various ways, redemption from them.
>The slow, uneven decline of these interlinked certainties, first in Western Europe, later elsewhere, under the impact of economic change, ‘discoveries’ (social and scientific), and the development of increasingly rapid communications, drove a harsh wedge between cosmology and history. No surprise then that the search was on, so to speak, for a new way of linking fraternity, power and time meaningfully together. Nothing perhaps more precipitated this search, nor made it more fruitful, than print-capitalism, which made it possible for rapidly growing numbers of people to think about themselves, and to relate themselves to others, in profoundly new ways.”

Nairn’s thesis:
>“The arrival of nationalism in a distinctively modern sense was tied to the political baptism of the lower classes . . . Although sometimes hostile to democracy, nationalist movements have been invariably populist in outlook and sought to induct lower classes into political life. In its most typical version, this assumed the shape of a restless middle-class and intellectual leadership trying to sit up and channel popular class energies into support for the new states.”
The conflicts between creoles and peninsulares in Spanish America offer a case study in how nationalism developed in the Americas, a particular kind of republican nationalism born out of economic interest and race and class based antagonisms. However, Anderson concludes the chapter with this passage:
>”By way of provisional conclusion, it may be appropriate to re-emphasize the limited and specific thrust of the argument so far. It is intended less to explain the socio-economic bases of anti-metropolitan resistance in the Western hemisphere between say, 1760 and 1830, than why the resistance was conceived in plural, ‘national’ forms – rather than in others. The economic interests at stake are well-known and obviously of fundamental importance. Liberalism and the Enlightenment clearly had a powerful impact, above all in providing an arsenal of ideological criticisms of imperial and anciens régimes. What I am proposing is that neither economic interest, Liberalism, nor Enlightenment could, or did, create in themselves the kind, or shape, of imagined community to be defended from these regimes’ depredations; to put it another way, none provided the framework of a new consciousness – the scarcely-seen periphery of its vision – as opposed to centre-field objects of its admiration or disgust. In accomplishing this specific task, pilgrim creole functionaries and provincial creole printmen played the decisive historic role.”

Print language was crucial to early European nationalism. Many languages such as Gaelic, Castilian and Breton were pushed to the margins to make way for official state languages like English, Castilian (Spanish) and French, and these languages were at the forefront of nationalist movements, manifesting themselves in countless publications. Nationalism also caused social changes such as the abolishment of serfdom, public education and mass literacy:
>“In effect, by the second decade of the nineteenth century, if not earlier, a ‘model’ of ‘the’ independent national state was available for pirating. (The first groups to do so were the marginalized vernacular-based coalitions of the educated on which this chapter has been focused.) But precisely because it was by then a known model, it imposed certain ‘standards’ from which too-marked deviations were impermissible. Even backward and reactionary Hungarian and Polish gentries were hard put to it not to make a show of ‘inviting in’ (if only to the pantry) their oppressed compatriots. If you like, the logic of San Martín’s Peruvianization was at work. If ‘Hungarians’ deserved a national state, then that meant Hungarians, all of them; it meant a state in which the ultimate locus of sovereignty had to be the collectivity of Hungarian-speakers and readers; and, in due course, the liquidation of serfdom, the promotion of popular education, the expansion of the suffrage, and so on. Thus the ‘populist’ character of the early European nationalism, even when led, demagogically, by the most backward social groups, was deeper than in the Americas: serfdom had to go, legal slavery was unimaginable – not least because the conceptual model was set in ineradicable place.”

So...this guy hates the state of Israel or what? Jews should be allowed to be nationalistic.

The rise of “official” nationalism in the 19th century as a reaction to the loss of power of dynastic monarchies:
>“In conclusion, then it has been argued that from about the middle of the nineteenth century there developed what Seton-Watson terms ‘official nationalisms’ inside Europe. These nationalisms were historically ‘impossible’ until after the appearance of popular linguistic-nationalisms, for, at bottom, they were responses by power-groups – primarily, but not exclusively, dynastic and aristocratic – threatened with exclusion from, or marginalization in, popular imagined communities. […] Such official nationalisms were conservative, not to say reactionary, policies, adapted from the model of the largely spontaneous popular nationalisms that preceded them. Nor were they ultimately confined to Europe and the Levant. In the name of imperialism, very similar policies were pursued by the same sorts of groups in the vast Asian and African territories subjected in the course of the nineteenth century. Finally, refracted into non-European cultures and histories, they were picked up and imitated by indigenous ruling groups in those few zones (among them Japan and Siam) which escaped direct subjection. In almost every case, official nationalism concealed a discrepancy between nation and dynastic realm. Hence a world-wide contradiction: Slovaks were to be Magyarized, Indians Anglicized, and Koreans Japanified, but they would not be permitted to join pilgrimages which would allow them to administer Magyars, Englishmen, or Japanese. The banquet to which they were invited always turned out to be a Barmecide feast. The reason for all this was not simply racism; it was also the fact that at the core of the empires nations too were emerging – Hungarian, English, and Japanese. And these nations were also instinctively resistant to ‘foreign’ rule. Imperialist ideology in the post-1850 era thus typically had the character of a conjuring-trick. How much it was a conjuring-trick is suggested by the equanimity with which metropolitan popular classes eventually shrugged off the ‘losses’ of the colonies, even in cases like Algeria where the colony had been legally incorporated into the metropole. In the end, it is always the ruling classes, bourgeois certainly, but above all aristocratic, that long mourn the empires, and their grief always has a stagey quality to it.”

>>20793901
Buddy it's obvious

>>20794079
>So...this guy hates the state of Israel or what?
Yes, he's a communist and all communists hate jews with a rabid passion

On the last wave of nationalism in the 19th century:
>”The ‘last wave’ of nationalisms, most of them in the colonial territories of Asia and Africa, was in its origins a response to the new-style global imperialism made possible by the achievements of industrial capitalism. As Marx put it in his inimitable way: ‘The need of a constantly expanding market for its products chases the bourgeoisie over the whole face of the globe.’ But capitalism had also, not least by its dissemination of print, helped to create popular, vernacular-based nationalisms in Europe, which to different degrees undermined the age-old dynastic principle, and egged into self-naturalization every dynasty positioned to do so. Official nationalism – weld of the new national and old dynastic principles (the British Empire) – led in turn to what, for convenience, one can call ‘Russification’ in the extra-European colonies. This ideological tendency meshed neatly with practical exigencies. The late-nineteenth-century empires were too large and too far-flung to be ruled by a handful of nationals. Moreover, in tandem with capitalism the state was rapidly multiplying its functions, in both the metropoles and the colonies. Combined, these forces “generated ‘Russifying’ school-systems intended in part to produce the required subordinate cadres for state and corporate bureaucracies. These school-systems, centralized and standardized, created quite new pilgrimages which typically had their Romes in the various colonial capitals, for the nations hidden at the core of the empires would permit no more inward ascension. The interlock between particular educational and administrative pilgrimages provided the territorial base for new ‘imagined communities’ in which natives could come to see themselves as ‘nationals’. The expansion of the colonial state which, so to speak, invited ‘natives’ into schools and offices, and of colonial capitalism which, as it were, excluded them from boardrooms, meant that to an unprecedented extent the key early spokesmen for colonial nationalism were lonely, bilingual intelligentsias unattached to sturdy local bourgeoisies. As bilingual intelligentsias, however, and above all as early-twentieth-century intelligentsias, they had access, inside the classroom and outside, to models of nation, nation-ness, and nationalism distilled from the turbulent, chaotic experiences of more than a century of American and European history. These models, in turn, helped to give shape to a thousand inchoate dreams. In varying combinations, the lessons of creole, vernacular and official nationalism were copied, adapted, and improved upon. Finally, as with increasing speed capitalism transformed the means of physical and intellectual communication, the intelligentsias found ways to bypass print in propagating the imagined community, not merely to illiterate masses, but even to literate masses reading different languages”

And finally, Anderson stresses in a chapter added in the expanded edition that the map, the census and the museum have been instrumental in shaping national consciousness, using the example of European colonies in Southeast Asia.

>>20793658
>What does "nationalism" even mean in public discourse?
In public discourse? Whatever the press needs it to be. Same as every other term.

>>20794089
Stalin was planning a Holocaust of the Jews before he was killed. It's true.

>>20793658
Politics is just biological competition at the societal level.

>>20793658
>Since we live in a world where globalists reign supreme,
Nationalism still reigns supreme. Globalists are just the merchant class sniffing around to to exploit on global levels. The statist nationalists are just trying to throw up walls to resist this. It’s not the same as the Nazi era, though some of them are just as nasty.
In a sense I support the latter, but they’re both abhorrent and going to be the end of us all

>>20793901
He’s right though. You’ve obviously never actually read Heidegger

>Finding an Economic and culturally foundation for a national people united in peculiarities to find it’s placed under the sun. Nation is a value used as its own self-validating object. Nationalism is good because it’s the root of all existence currently. This existence by necessity of collectivity is Dasein. Fully realizing Heidegger‘s as the human being rests on a conceptually prior grasp of Being. Thus Dasein belongs essentially to a world as it possesses a primordial understanding of the world as well as of the entities within it. Being then runs through human beings to philosophical anthropology. Thus human beings cannot be understood as a rational animal on the ancient Greek model or in terms of Christian theology; it must be grasped through its own existence, or innermost possibility. Meaning that the authenticity of Dasein is to embody the values aka culture, language, and ethnicity of a group. In this sense the nation is the embodiment of the entire will of the individual.

>>20793658
That's a modernist take on it, the only one you'll get if you're a student and have lectures on anthropology but not the only one there is

>>20793658
>umbrella term
>liberal
>Marxist
>nation’s spirit
>ingroup
>outgroup
>Anti-globalism
>globalists rein supreme
>emotionally and ideologically charged

>we ought to be clear with the terms we use
Holy shit with this many buzzwords you are being a clear troll.

>>20793658
It means fascist, sometimes nazi. Those terms mean evil people wants to do evil things to me.
Oh, Anderson Cooper is on. I'll get back to you.

>>20793812
Yeah, nationalism is a social construct, that is most effective in keeping a group together when the vast majority of people are biologically, as well as culturally related. In ancient greece a nation was simply "ethnos". Modern definitions of nation and nationalism are just ridiculous, including many of the 19th century approaches.
Ethnic nationalism is the only thing that comes close to pre 19th century definitions of nation, and nationalism.

>>20796253
Those are racist genocidal iterations of nationalism. Nationalism does usually cook up animosity between races of other states, but they generally fall back into uneasy peace. Nazis have policies of superiority.
Small difference, but important.

>>20796282
Candy coated.

Read Stirner. He describes it well enough

>>20796282
Modern nationalism is simply a construct used by monarchs and capitalists to merge the diverse groups of slaves, serfs and workers they import into their sphere of influence into a single cultural community. The same thing globalists now do when they speak of "humankind" or "we are all one and the same" or "Everyone is an American". Of course its just a social construct with no basis in reality or biology. Conditioning the social brain of their subjects.

>>20796315
I never quite managed to wrap my head around how people who unironically believe this manage to rationalize the fact that academia and every other institution under the sun persecutes ethnonationalistic/anti-globalist sentiment in the western world (despite those people being the brownshirts of capital according to this theory), and that you can call yourself a marxist without repercussions, write papers about marxist topics, and basically be as much of a hardliner marxist lefty as you want both economically and culturally without it negatively impacting you at all in most modern western countries, despite marxists supposedly being the true enemy of the establishment. How do you manage to reconcile these IRL facts with your theory without being straight up schizophrenic?

>>20794037
>>20794051
Very nice

>>20793658
>What does "nationalism" even mean in public discourse?
You're American. You will never know.

>>20797118
Definitely not a Marxist What exactly do you not understand?

Ethno-nationalism is something completely different than American nationalism. Ethno-nationalism a social construct that is actually based on reality and biology. Use it at your own peril because the whole world will be against you (especially the jew).

>>20793658
It is a political theory that gained wide popularity during the late 19th century.
It advocated for the self-determination of nations. By nation, they meant a group of people living in a particular area with the same language, culture, and history.

By self-determination, they meant having the nation live in its own state, making its own decisions.
They tried doing that by creating nation-states. However, since Europeans were doing so, there was a lot of bias and hypocrisy. After WW1, they decided Poles needed their own nation, but none of their colonies deserved it, and when they did carve up their colonies, it was not based on separate nation-states, but literally arbitrary straight lines. They divided the Kurds between 3 different countries, for example, Afghanistan is made of multiple nations. The Pashtun were split between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
In essence, they forced multi-culturalism and diversity on other nations. Some claim deliberately so that they keep infighting and never rise.

There was also the problem of minorities. It is pretty hard to draw borders that put 99% of a nation within it. This caused problems and tensions between neighboring nations and even ethnic cleansing if it didn't end up with a peaceful solution.

It is really an interesting concept, but it was executed pretty terribly, to say the least. If we go back to before nation-states existed, we had multi-ethnic empires with one dominant nation being the defacto-leaders over the rest under the empire or kingdom. So, the idea of a nation having its own destiny defined by itself was a novel and fair concept. But unfortunately, it was executed poorly, and now people just default to it being associated with Nazis, so idk what the future would hold.

Some theorize we would see more smaller states popup, while others think we'd see borders dissolve and the concept of a nation would be lost in the history books.
So far, there is proof for both. Think Catalonia, for example, and other regions seeking autonomy, Brexit, etc. Even some US states are slowly leaning towards leaving the union.

We'll see what the future looks like. We might die and it's still unclear. Who knows, time will tell.

>>20797324
Who is "they" and who do you think has the power to make political decisions? Its not some kind of public effort anyone with "ideas" can contribute to.

>>20797391
Politicians of the time, mostly European powers back then, since they held most of the political power.

>>20797118
Can one get away with Stalin type nationalism or are the old Trots in academia still running things?

>>20797422
But we all know politicians are just frontmen for lobbyists, and they in turn get their money from the capitalists. So its really the capitalists that decided to do all these things.

>>20797510
Braindead. The modern nation is from the romantics. "Capitalists" as in forces motivated by pure greed mobilized the entire planet through propaganda to carpet bomb the nationalists.

>>20797642
Who are these romantics and where did they get there political power from?

>>20797652
I know you. You have never had a thought in your life.

nationalism is when people r crazy and gay xdddd

>>20793658
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagined_community

it feels weird to say this, but this wiki article is all you need

>>20799102
Nobody uses terms like "imagined communities" in IRL parlance.

>>20799940
Yet, that’s exactly what it is

>>20793677
fpbp (Checked).

test

>>20793710
>Nation is a value used as its own self-validating object. Nationalism is good because it’s the root of all existence currently.
nations are crap because they are crafted by atheists as a replacement for kingdoms

I don't care what -ism you want to call it but I will never want to live around niggers.