/lit/ - Literature

public education is meaningless and a mistake anyway

>>20785677
>Irrelevant to the Marxists, however. Their tactic to categorize everything pre-2016 as racis
meds

>>20785677
it's true, gang weed the movie, the finest script ever put to paper, was never produced because the author is an aryan jew

>>20785677
You have never read Marx. Admit it, /pol/anon. Not only that, you derive your political philosophy from image memes and imageboard posts. You consume hours of YouTube content every day, and your feed is filled with prodigious thinkers like Jordan Peterson, Matt Walsh, and Ben Shapiro.

How close am I? Be honest anon. (As a gesture of goodwill, consider those tasty dubs checked.)

>>20785677
identity politics were invented to attack marxism tho
maybe you should read a book

>>20785716
marxists are the attack dogs of capital.

>>20785677
>muh glassigs
If you have to be spoonfed at every turn, maybe pick another hobby.

I know a guy who moved to Paris to publish there for this reason.

>>20785710
Not OP but Marxists don't read Marx. They just read the Communist Manifesto and use it to fight for public recognition of every degeneracy they can get addicted to. And degeneracy among the plebs is good for Capital and maintaning political control through constant "social revolution and progress". Which is nothing more than a turnover/replacement of disillusioned of workslaves.

>>20785677
You legitimately have no basis to say that no classic has been published since 2000 since you refuse to engage with any contemporary literature. I doubt you even read seriously.

>>20785677
If anything (book, tweet, news article etc) has a publication date later than 2012/2013 i immediately doubt it's authenticity. Gamergate unironically shifted the timeline and we are never going back.

>>20785677

I've said it before, but this situation creates the opportunity for smart small press to publish great work -- work of high talent that a small publisher would not ordinarily have access to.

And talent will out in the end -- good stuff from a gifted new writer will be recognized.

>>20785805
First of all, how do you know that? Second, if nothing gets published there’s nothing to engage with you. You’re calling on him to perpetuate the bullshit.
> oh you don’t like that white men don’t get published, well you better buy the books of these non-white women who did
What kind of low IQ logic is this?

>>20785815
Do you think that’s true? Small publishers can’t compete with the Marketing departments of larger publishers, and let’s face it: The people who would complain about this will not take risks on new writers regardless. They will just default to the established canon. The well has already poisoned.

>>20785716
>identity politics was invented to attack identity politics

>>20785805
Name 2 classics from the 2000s and 2010s that aren't Harry Potter, Gone Girl, 50 shades of grey, the god delusion, Sapiens, or 12 rules for Life.

>>20785838
>he thinks harry potter and gone girl are classics

>>20785838
2666 is the only one that comes to mind.

>>20785838
The idea of a "modern classic" is a contradiction. Classics are made when a new generation recognizes something timeless about it. A generation cannot appropriately appraise something produced by their own ethos.

>>20785815
The entire media industry will conspire against you and the people you publish if you try to be a "talented white guys label"

>>20785838
My diary desu

>>20785705
that's not how you use that retard

>>20785861
In 2002, we had a good idea what the best books of the 1980s were.

>>20785871
I'll use retards however I please thank you very much

>>20785866
yes, fellow white man, it's hopeless and we should do nothing but lay over and die

>>20785821
I shouldn’t have to simplify this for you, but the point is that you are fighting specters. You’ve made a frankly insane claim that men have been shut out of publishing for 22 years, a claim made based on nothing but your own fears and paranoia, and thus you’ve come to the conclusion that nothing great has been published in that timeframe.
Your worldview is based on you allowing your imagination to further your persecution complex.
Three parts
1. You don’t read contemporary literature so you have no authority to say that none of it is great
2. You don’t enage with enough literature in general to be able to determine what is great in the first place
3. Due to the feninizing nature of the public education system you’ve adopted the womanishurge to have people pity you and this have thrown your identity fully behind this idea that the world is victimizing you and that someone should care.
These three facts lead me to my ultimate conclusion:
Your bitches count rests terminally at the number zero

>>20785874
what were they?

>>20785879
You have to find some Asian guys who can't get published either for it to work, is what I'm saying.

>>20785880
Lots of assumptions; couldnt be farther from the truth.

>>20785880
I wasn’t the one who made the claim. I’m just someone else who pointed out that what you said was retarded because it is. Why would you fund what works to exclude you at the expense of anything good in order to just become a perceived authority on whether or not it’s good? That makes no fucking sense.

>>20785677
What does this have to do with improving conditions for the working class? Also conservatives have been telling people for decades to study only what gets a job and to not bother with the humanities. You brought it upon yourselves. That's why you only see coffee shop trust fund girl lit.

>>20785886
Blood Meridian, A Confederacy of Dunces, White Noise, Beloved, The Bonfire of the Vanities, The Remains of the Day, The Name of the Rose, Norwegian Wood, The Satanic Verses, Neuromancer.

>>20785677
this thread again?

>>20785880
I've read over 100 books of past 2 decades and I would, without any hesitation, exchange all of them for Master and Margharita (my #10-25 favorite book, not my top pick), for example. I wouldn't even blink my eyes, not even have given it any thought. The closest I got to enjoy myself was honestly with Houellebecq's Serotonin, but even then it's more on a level of light summer reading than anything good.

Oh sweet, the same twitter bait thread we've had 20 times already

>>20785677
I have trouble believing news like this. Limiting yourself to colored folks is essentially charity, which goes against the profit-seeking, predatory nature of business, especially a shitty and fickle business like book selling.

>>20785923
>>20785922

>>20785900
>boomercons are retarded so it's good that all white men, no matter their politics, are shut out of the industry

>>20785900
>What does this have to do with improving conditions for the working class
People only make the "culture war is a distraction" argument when someone is defending themselves. You never hear this when someone is demanding more DEI officers.
>Also conservatives have been telling people for decades to study only what gets a job and to not bother with the humanities. You brought it upon yourselves.
This is correct, conservatives self-selected themselves out of the elite by prioritizing trades and small businesses over academia, credentialing institutions, culture production and other forms of bureaucracy.

>>20785710
>/pol/anon
>Jordan Peterson, Matt Walsh, and Ben Shapiro
No one on /pol/ watches those people.
Leftoids literally don't even try to understand their opponent's worldview before they attack it.

>>20785914
>Norwegian Wood, The Satanic Verses, Neuromancer.
fucking lmao

>>20785923
blackrock compensates the publishers for all the money they burn pushing the agenda

>>20785944
/pol/ does like Walsh afaik, if only because he's the most aggressive on transgenderism.

>>20785699
Don’t gaslight him tankie.
People are waking up to all your bullshit

>>20785949
No, you're wrong. Its because The Daily Wire is a jewish company. Typical neo-con jews.

>>20785920
I didn’t care for Houllebecq, I think the best of the last two decades was written by Sebald. Certainly beats the hell out of Submission

>>20785791
marxists don't read marx either, they just do whatever the pope says

>>20785812
Based.
Gamergate was ground zero. People didn’t even know to call it “woke” back then.

>>20785949
The vast majority of the /pol/ crowd would agree that people like Walsh, Shapiro, and Peterson are controlled opposition grifters.
https://youtu.be/WXYuqrO8LLo

>>20785832
>Small publishers can’t compete with the Marketing departments of larger publishers

I don't know, maybe I'm overly optimistic, but if there's a major talent on the order of a 2020 equivalent of Hemingway or Faulkner, I think they could break through and be recognized. It would take a smart, aggressive publisher and a little luck but I think it could happen.

>>20785677
Classics aren't created overnight. In a generation maybe Infinite Jest and The Corrections will be considered 2000s-era classics, or maybe it will be something that's not even on our radar right now.

Also, whining about Marxists is cringy and an example of victim mentality.

>>20785979
>Also, whining about Marxists is cringy and an example of victim mentality
Nigger Jew Groomer detected

>>20785983
waahh wahhh my personal failings are the result of a worldwide conspiracy of jews and pedophiles or whatever

>>20785677
>With men shut out od publishing since around 2000
It's true. I haven't seen a single damn book published by a man since 2000.

>>20785871
it's exactly how it's used

>>20785923
That’s because it isn’t happening, lol. They’re publishing white women. As of maybe two years ago only 5% of published American authors were black. However, the vast majority of published authors were white females, which coincidentally matches the demographic responsible for the vast majority of new fiction purchases
Really, all anyone who posts this wants to do is seethe horribly about an unjust world, while they pirate 100 year old books and trawl used book stores for public domain masterpieces.

I will admit that there’s a chicken and egg situation. In my conversations with people in tradpub, they seem to truly believe that men under forty straight up don’t read anything, and thus there’s no market and no need to cater to them. They’re factually incorrect, and when I tell them about popular genres with no presence in tradpub they don’t even believe me. And that’s for terrible genrefiction, the one genre men still sort of buy, forget literary fiction with has become the domain of women entirely.
We live in a capitalist society and we’re discussing a stagnant and shrinking industry, they aren’t doing something that’ll lose them money. What they’re doing is getting cheap and easy social points by potshotting a group that has no financial relevance to them. You’ll rarely see big time epic fantasy authors taking easy shots at white men, for instance, same for action thriller writers. But literary fiction and YA writers? Well, has Ben Shapiro or the equivalent right wing grifter released any polemics about white men lately, any white man, or referenced the white maleness of some person they’re shitting on?

>>20785990
not him but no one asked, groomer

>>20786020
waahhh waaaahh waaahh

>>20785990
How is my brother being murdered for having white skin a personal failing of mine? Or my uncle being rejected from the police because he did? Or my girlfriend getting fired because she wasn't queer enough? Or me receiving detention because i refused to fill out the diversity worksheet they gave us? The current system is breeding hordes of homicidal young men and I can't wait to play my part in Minecraft

>>20785998
The ability of the jew to subjugate people that go out of line is impressive.

>>20785948
All better but all but maybe 1 book written in the 2000s.

>>20786033
>All better
lol no

Have you considered writing for some other medium besides conventional novels? There are very few young white male readers of novels to begin with these days.

>>20785977
Plus all three of them are Jewish and I think they all got the "vaccine" so they have no common ground at all with /pol/

>>20786045
But I don't wanna write for vidya.

>>20786049
Peterson isn't Jewish

>>20786030
He was always in their corner. He's famous for reversing the races of a real child rape and murder case and making it about how eveil and racist white people are

>>20786029
the ADL are good guys compared to the godless communists like soros

>>20785957
Lmao

>>20786078
They're on the same side you idiot

>>20786084
the papists are throwing the zionists under the bus, the zionists mind their own business, the pope wants to nerve-staple your family

>>20786078
>t. dumbest person itt

>>20786008
Ben Shapiro tried to get a Republican from Iowa cancelled for making pro-white comments.

>>20786090
>the zionists mind their own business
no they don't

>>20786052
He looks like one and he refused to talk about the Jewish involvement in communism and he hates white identity.

>>20786090
Zionists such as Shapiro and Peterson are pro-"vaccine" and pro-immigration.

>>20786124
soros is banned from israel and russia, you do not understand the nuances of what is taking place

>>20786126
It's all theatrics

>>20786126
You are changing the subject now because you are a shill.

>>20785944
They absolutely do and I can tell by their talking points. All extreme right-wingers build on a propaganda base geared to the lowest common denominator; where they take it afterwards depends on their favored sect of thought. Any reference to "cultural Marxism" is the most basic bitch of conservative building blocks. It's a buzzword that most couldn't define if you paid them and gave them a national spotlight. I know because several have been given just that and I still haven't heard a cogent explanation for what they mean by it. Indeed they rely on the assumption their audience is too lazy to look deeper beyond catchphrases and slogans, and they are generally correct to assume it.

>>20786153
You are a fraud and a liar.
Normiecons might talk a little bit about cultural Marxism but they don't dare say who is behind it.
Normiecons are funded by Rothschilds to act as the controlled opposition.
Normiecons are against white tribalism yet they support zionism.
Normiecons get the "vaccine".
Normiecons support immigration as long as it's legal.
Normiecons have nothing to do with the right wing.
https://youtu.be/FfQ9HstpqcE

>>20786153
>extreme right-wingers
Shapiro and Peterson and Walsh are closer to the left than they are to "extreme right wingers"

>>20786184
I can't even imagine the political spectrum you're operating on if you believe this to be the case. You must live in the Warhammer universe.

>>20786207
It is simply the truth.
Granted, the truth must seem very bizarre to satanic transgender communists such as yourself.

>>20786207
I'm sorry but that just goes to show how out of touch you are. In no reasonable interpretation of our reality is Peterson "far right".

>>20786207
you're deranged if you think bland liberals like them are anywhere near the extreme right

>>20785677
The audience of "literature" has changed. It's no longer art, but some kind of status symbol for college-educated woke women. That's it. The market does not cater to anyone else, only them. So if you aren't producing a product for them, you most likely won't get published. It's quite the nasty situation, but that's what it is. If you want to create something, as a man, go to a different medium. That's the only way you'll be able to communicate to anyone worthwhile anyway. Suppose that you get published traditionally, the women I mentioned earlier are the only people who would buy your book. Do you care about them? I doubt it. You'd have a better chance communicating and producing art with a video game.

>>20786207
>Far right is when you don't want children to be castrated. The less children castrationism you are, the farther righter you are
- Adolf Hitler

>>20786248

>>20786232
>t. doesn't understand how literature, or any form of artistic media, works
I've never seen a doomposter who knew what they were talking about

>>20786317
I'm talking about the publishing industry, who they publish books for, and who buys their products, you illiterate mong.

>>20786051
It doesn’t have to be video games.

>>20785677
Just write as trans women or under a female name lol retards it's not hard

>>20786332
"Go to a different medium" isn't how art works. You probably haven't read a book since high school.

>>20786344
There are multiple mediums in which one can write. The path of communicating to like-minded individuals through traditional literary publishing is closed. You can accept it and change or you can cry about it here. Your choice.

>>20786051
I think >>20786045 means trying to get your feet wet by publishing short stories and novellas online and then trying for a larger work if you gain enough of a following. Like what Delicious Tacos and ZHPL have done, or even Yudkowsky with his shitty athiest Harry Potter fanfic. Sure, you'll never be mainstream, and your book will never be in physical stores, but it beats never making money writing at all.

>>20786248
nazis are communists

>>20786361
>more dunning kruger gibberish
again, you do not understand how literature works if you think you can just transplant a prose work into a video game. Besides, the state of story telling in video games is far more grim than books could ever be.

>>20786390
>again, you do not understand how literature works if you think you can just transplant a prose work into a video game.
Who said that you can? Fuck off.

My racism and anti-semitism were like a candle in 2013, I would only light them up occasionally to add a little something extra to the moment

Now they are a blazing sun

>>20786248
top kek

>>20786248
Lol

>>20786344
There are dozens of successful biographies which did exactly that.

>>20786232
The problem with “go to another medium” is that they’re not as accessible as writing. How would you tell Charles Bukowski at middle age “just go direct a movie”? You wouldn’t obviously, and movies still suffer from something similar anyway. Western creative culture is just pure poison right now.

>>20786403
>instead of working in one medium, you should go work in an completely unrelated medium with publishers that are far more powerful and politically motivated
again, you're advice is retarded and comes from you not understanding how any artistic medium works
>lol instead of making a sculpture, you should try composing a symphony
moron

>>20786426
like?

>>20786433
I'll give you different advice then: you're fucked and your work will never accomplish anything since you cannot adapt. Hope that helps.

>>20786458
mad because bad

>>20786462
Good luck with that publishing contract anon.

>>20786440
Are mediums equivalent to industries? You are stating that they are, when I've distinguished them. Not responding to this nonsense again.

>>20786447
The two recent ones I became aware of and apply though I’m not a fan is David Cronenberg and Neil Druckmann

>>20786476
>>20786466
didn't read plus no one asked for you "advice"

>>20786458
It’s not a question of adaptation but ag honestly. Someone who is 50 and has never even worked in film will probably never be able to write or direct a movie, no matter how talented they are at it. That’s just reality.

>>20786490
Very true. There's no hope for them.
>>20786486
Truth hurts, retard.

>>20786506
>if you want to play the violin, as a man, you should get involved in photography instead.

>>20786518
You can make analogies about how you don't like the situation all you want, but it doesn't change anything. If you want to write traditionally and you are in the wrong demographic, you will not succeed.

If this is not true, can anyone recommend me any good novels written by white men in 2021 or 2022?

>>20786521
>lol dude instead of designing a video game you should animate a cartoon instead

yeah this is totally why none of us are published

>>20786531

>>20786545
have you tried making a videogame?

>>20786540
I told you that since you cannot succeed in writing one sort of thing you should try to write another sort of thing. You're simply in denial and can't accept what has happened. Good luck, though.

Capote: Well, it has brought about the rise of what I call the Jewish Mafia in American letters. This is a clique of New York-oriented writers and critics who control much of the literary scene through the influence of the quarterlies and intellectual magazines. All these publications are Jewish-dominated and this particular coterie employs them to make or break writers by advancing or withholding attention. I don’t think there’s any conscious, sinister conspiracy on their part—just a determination to see that members of their particular clique rise to the top. Bernard Malamud and Saul Bellow and Philip Roth and Isaac Bashevis Singer and Norman Mailer are all fine writers, but they’re not the only writers in the country, as the Jewish literary Mafia would have us believe. I could give you a list of excellent writers, such as John Knowles and Vance Bourjaily and James Purdy and Donald Windham and Reynolds Price and James Leo Herlihy and Calder Willingham and John Hawkes and William Goyen; the odds are you haven’t heard of most of them, for the simple reason that the Jewish Mafia has systematically frozen them out of the literary scene. Now, mind you, I’m not against any particular group adhering to its own literary values and advancing its own favored authors; such cliques have always existed in American letters. I only object when any one particular group—and it could just as well be Southern, or Roman Catholic, or Marxist, or vegetarian—gets a strangle hold on American criticism and squeezes out anybody who doesn’t conform to its own standards. It’s fine to write about specifically Jewish problems, and it often makes valid and exciting literature—but the people who have other messages to convey, other styles and other backgrounds should also be given a chance. Today, because of the predominance of the Jewish Mafia, they’re not being given that opportunity. This is something everyone in the literary world knows but never writers about.

Playboy: Aren’t you opening yourself up to a charge of anti-Semitism?

Capote: No.

>>20786572
>hey, I know you've been working at being a filmaker for a while now, but the industry is just not what it used to be. I think you should consider interpretive dance.

>>20786591
It's over, anon. Your hypothetical writing career I mean.

>>20786601
How's that video game of yours turning out?

>>20786518
It’s more like “if you want to make music, and would prefer the violin, but can’t play the violin then consider the cello”.

>>20786652
you're explanation would work if that anon had recommended writing poetry and not making a video game like he did

>>20786665
The state of poetry is even worse lol. You're such a fucking idiot.

>>20786675
anon, I'm talking about analogies.
reading comprehension doesn't seem like your strongpoint.
maybe you should try playing a video game if reading is this hard for you.

>>20786665
But you could say that like making music, writing a novel and making a video game are two ways of telling a story.

>>20786690
Your analogy is invalid by your own logic. If writing one thing is completely different than writing another thing, to the point that it's like painting vs. sculpture, then writing prose and writing poetry are completely and utterly different and incomparable.

>>20786701
Video games are really bad at telling stories for the most part. They're better at being interactive playgrounds, even the best written ones. Besides, if the story I'm trying to tell isn't action-packed enough there will literally be no gameplay.
Again, this whole line of argumentation comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of how vidya and literature work, and what makes each appealing.

>>20785964
holy meds

>Your analogy is invalid by your own logic.
This is "smart internet guy" distilled into one perfect sentence.

>>20786720
That’s your opinion though.

>>20786724
>"holy meds"

is that what the holy see put in your communion wine?

>>20786712
writing in a video game is one aspect of the medium that's not only not the most important element but also is entirely optional.
Poetry and prose, meanwhile, ARE writing. Writing is the whole thing.

>>20786029
If your relatives were fired or passed over for a job due to their race or sexual orientation, they should file lawsuits about it.

In all seriousness, I'm sorry you're undergoing difficulties, but resentment and conspiracy theorism aren't the way to go. It won't help you. Everyone faces difficult and unjust conditions; if you go down the path of "the world is out to get me," you're no better than the people you criticize.

>>20786720
>>20786738
I never told you to transplant a prose work into a video game. I said (I'll reorganize into points)

1. The publishing industry's target audience is specific women
2. Even if they published you (they wont') that audience is who will be reading your book, not any of the people you actually want to communicate with
3. You would have better luck communicating with people you care about with a video game than with a book

That is not telling you to make a video game. It is not telling you transplant your story into a video game. It is telling you that you can't make it in this industry and the only people that would even remotely care about anything you write are people you don't care about having read it.

>>20786733
anon, how would you take a story like The Catcher in the Rye and turn it into a video game?
what would the gameplay be?

>>20786746
Could easily work as a walking simulator with voice-over narration.

>>20786753
that sounds fucking awful, and also self-defeating because only women play those sorts of games
It's better as a book

>>20786746
Make it an augmented reality game where Holden narrates snarky commentary about whatever it is you're seeing.

>>20786746
sister raping simulator

>>20786763
It would still work. There are plenty of books that wouldn't but this is one that definitely would.

>>20785838
2666, capitalist realism, phyl-undhu, there's probably a few more but you get the point.

>>20786736
You think I eat the jewish bread?

>>20786794
None of these examples address the problem, which is white males trying to break into traditional publishing in the current woke era.

>>20786830
prove that this problem exists

>>20785705
You hate Joyce Carol Oates? It's not like she's some twitter nobody..

>>20786833
I have no doubt that there is no evidence you would accept. Anything will be dismissed as hearsay.

>>20786852
you don't?

>>20786855
so you have nothing.

>>20786862
You aren't fooling anybody, you know?

>>20786830
problem with that is that the audience for books nowadays is mostly white women, and the male audience for books is reading classics mostly. questioning why women have pushed men out of publishing is like questioning why straight porn isn't shot by gay women.

>>20786858
Should I? I've only read Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been?, which I thought was great. I saw a terrible (but funny) Nic Cage movie based on one of her novels.

She's been an author for a long time, she probably has a great deal of knowledge about publishing. It seems like her opinion in this instance is probably well-informed.

>>20786883
well I haven't read anything of hers and thus adopt the default stance i.e. hatred

>>20786833
>several serious articles from insiders prove it
>editors say it in interviews
>agents admit it without hesitance
>publishers write it on their websites
>statistics prove it
>selling numbers prove it
>the reading habit of /lit/ proves it
the only people denying it (sometimes) are twitter idiots. then and when they use graphs that show white men publish the most books. of course what they don't mention is what kinds of books (and in what context et cetera). As Churchill said it, I only believe in statistics I falsified myself. The industry cares about followership and identity, not about writing.

>>20785677

I'm not American, and I think the only important writers of this millenium so far are Bolano (who died in 2003) and Houellebecq. Perhaps that autist who is creating the Tails gets Trolled saga too.

Am I missing someone? Perhaps Taleb, but his works aren't fiction.

>>20786865
>no u

>>20786879
Classics or fantasy, yeah I agree with this but there’s some truth to it from both ends. White males wont get published, they also won’t read (partly because the people they would read don’t get published). It’s a vicious cycle we’re in right now. One thing you can’t deny though is that it appears the environment was a lot better just a few decades ago, and it appears a lot better in other languages and countries.

>>20786906
>>several serious articles from insiders prove it
>>editors say it in interviews
>>agents admit it without hesitance
>>publishers write it on their websites
>>statistics prove it
>>selling numbers prove it
>>the reading habit of /lit/ proves it
post some of these

>>20786907
Krasznahorkai, Knausgaard, Sebald, Josh Cohen, Dennis Cooper

>>20786907
The Road is, thus far, the finest novel of the 21st century. Any competitor it may have is lightyears behind. When Cormac goes into the ground it’s not an exaggeration to say American literature goes with him.

>>20786907
Houellebecq is the most interesting because he’s very appropriate. His whole thing is like “Look what a disaster this is”. He’s something of a unique and example and almost shouldn’t even count.

>>20786929
All good not great or downright mediocre.

>>20786926
fuck no. google it yourself. check the homepages, read a few articles, look up some numbers. start with the bestselling books of the 2010s. ask some people. make up your own mind.

>>20786973
>google it
so you have nothing.

>>20786973
Actually, white men have the most privilege and publish all the books and are the only group NOT locked out of publishing. Google it.

>>20787002
White men are never locked out of the publishing industry but when they are they deserve it.

>>20786967
All vastly superior to Michel fucking Houellebecq.

>>20785861
https://scholars-stage.org/where-have-all-the-great-works-gone/

>Spengler was not so humble. He repeatedly describes Tolstoy (d. 1910), Ibsen (d. 1906), Nietzsche (d. 1900), Hertz (d. 1894), Dostoevsky (d. 1881), Marx (d. 1883), and Maxwell (1879) as figures of defining “world-historical” importance: in other words, as working on the same plane as Plato, Archimedes, Ovid, Shakespeare, and Newton. He does not argue their merits; to him it is obvious that these are the men who deserve to be thought of as “world-historical” figures, and it is clear from the way he makes his arguments that he expects that his own readers already agree with him.
>Ponder that! Spengler began writing Decline of the West in 1914. Tolstoy was only four years dead when Spengler started his book; Marx was only 30 years deceased. But Spengler could state, with the full expectation that his audience would not question him, that these men belonged in [the] global pantheon of humanity’s greatest figures. But Spengler was hardly alone in this sort of judgement. Ten years later John Erskine would teach his course on the great works of the Western tradition—which was the granddaddy of the Columbia Common Core, the St. John’s curriculum, and the Great Books of the Western World series—and it included all of the names mentioned above as well. To this Erskine would add the names William James, Sigmund Freud, Thomas Hardy, and Charles Darwin.
>...It was obvious to even those who disliked Nietzsche that he was a seminal figure in Western thought; it was obvious even to those who disagreed with Ibsen that he claimed a similar place in Western literature, and so forth. Their ideas might be argued against, but their genius and their influence was undeniable.
>Is there anyone who died in the last decade you could make that sort of claim for?
>How about for the last two decades?
>The last three?
>Or is there anyone at all who is still living today that might be described this way?

Apart from Cormac McCarthy (who, at 89, does not likely have long to live) I struggle to name another living author with an immortal, influential, transformational work of serious literature (some might say Ishiguro or Pynchon, but I don't agree that their work is quite of that caliber, and they'll never be the kind of household names that Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Marx, Nietzsche, Freud, Darwin, etc., are).

The weird dumbing-down, fragmenting, commercialization, and polarization of the last 30 years has a lot to do with this. The internet itself, and how it has warped community, speech, marketing, propaganda, worldviews, and communication, is also very much responsible. Filters that used to work are now subverted or broken, and both those who write the textbooks and teach their contents have been captured by sociopolitical movements and ideologies (you don't have to go far to find leftist professors gloating about how they've managed to remove Homer and Shakespeare from curricula).

>>20786980
not playing your game, clown.
>>20787002
no ethnicity is locked out entirely. there are several reasons why the publishing industry is what it is. some are political, others not. if you and me were publishers, we'd put our money on Sasha Grey, too, rather than some anon.

>>20787102
Nope. If you don't believe me, look it up for yourself. Look at Google and look at articles.

>>20787074
>(you don't have to go far to find leftist professors gloating about how they've managed to remove Homer and Shakespeare from curricula).
Really? Can you give me any sort of evidence of this? I encountered plenty of woke gibberish at university, but I never saw any professors "gloating about how they've managed to remove Homer and Shakespeare from curricula."

>>20787102
>not playing your game, clown
very effeminate reply

>>20787102
>not playing your game, clown.
He asked you for evidence that what you're saying is based in reality and not a delusion. You seem very defensive about that.

extraordinary chance that most of the doom posters itt write fantasy or sci-fi and confuse the effects of the teeny, tiny market that exists for those sorts of books for discrimination.

>>20786078
Wow dude.

>>20787074
Being this canoncucked is like limiting yourself to the IMDb Top 250 when it comes to cinema, or Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums for popular music. You're a poser.

>>20787074
lol who the fuck is "Hertz" haha

>>20787074
>>Spengler was not so humble. He repeatedly describes Tolstoy (d. 1910), Ibsen (d. 1906), Nietzsche (d. 1900), Hertz (d. 1894), Dostoevsky (d. 1881), Marx (d. 1883), and Maxwell (1879) as figures of defining “world-historical” importance: in other words, as working on the same plane as Plato, Archimedes, Ovid, Shakespeare, and Newton. He does not argue their merits; to him it is obvious that these are the men who deserve to be thought of as “world-historical” figures, and it is clear from the way he makes his arguments that he expects that his own readers already agree with him.
>>Ponder that! Spengler began writing Decline of the West in 1914. Tolstoy was only four years dead when Spengler started his book; Marx was only 30 years deceased. But Spengler could state, with the full expectation that his audience would not question him, that these men belonged in [the] global pantheon of humanity’s greatest figures. But Spengler was hardly alone in this sort of judgement. Ten years later John Erskine would teach his course on the great works of the Western tradition—which was the granddaddy of the Columbia Common Core, the St. John’s curriculum, and the Great Books of the Western World series—and it included all of the names mentioned above as well. To this Erskine would add the names William James, Sigmund Freud, Thomas Hardy, and Charles Darwin.
>>...It was obvious to even those who disliked Nietzsche that he was a seminal figure in Western thought; it was obvious even to those who disagreed with Ibsen that he claimed a similar place in Western literature, and so forth. Their ideas might be argued against, but their genius and their influence was undeniable.
>>Is there anyone who died in the last decade you could make that sort of claim for?
>>How about for the last two decades?
>>The last three?
>>Or is there anyone at all who is still living today that might be described this way?
Absolutely based
> leftist professors gloating about how they've managed to remove Homer and Shakespeare from curricula
Never happened
>>20787177
Who even said anything about "limiting"?

>>20787192
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Hertz

>>20787177
>Literary canon: the greatest achievements in human thought and expression, established by the same great minds over thousands of years
>IMDb and Rolling Stone: opinions from mass consumers and failed journalists about mediocre mediums that are younger than some tortoises
These are the same

>>20787192
He discovered electromagnetic waves thus allowing for radio, television, all wireless communication, etc.

>>20785887
based. the nature of social warfare is fought through the aggregation of otherwise competing social interest groups. kind of like corporate takeovers and mergers. why do you guys think that every asian victimization has been painted as the white man’s doing recently? they tried to create tensions about “muh asian fetish” or “muh model minority”, but it turns out both of those problems were not only overblown but actually beneficial to the group in question. so now the game becomes a fear campaign.

any demagogues allegedly fighting against “globohomo” or “cultural marxism” would be smart to lower their purity standards and start making concessions and promises to these groups (not just asians but it’s a start) if they want the manpower to actually back up their message. i mean fuck, intersectional feminism started when whit women started realizing nobody cared about them in and of themselves, so they started courting alliances.

>inb4 “we don’t want to team up with chang”
it’s all just a smoke screen to keep you isolated and weak without numbers.

>>20787247
You won't develop taste by sticking to a roadmap. It's why this board is down to about a dozen works and authors.

>>20787242
>>20787253
>didn't even create anything, just discovered something that already existed
standards the canon weren't that high in those days I guess

>>20787305
to be fair we used to have our own unique canon

>>20787305
to be fair, without a roadmap it’s easy to become lost

>>20785710
not op, but I tried reading Marx. Tried not in the sense of "I didnt understand it" but in the sense of "Gave up around page 70 since several of his core assumptions are dead wrong so its not worth it to read the rest, because you simply cant construct a correct thesis if your core assumptions are wrong."
Anyone who read at least 1 book on finance should understand why the only people who take Marx's economics theories serious are people who know nothing about economics in the first place.

>>20787074
I’ve read Spengler’s book and as I recall, while he suggests that no great canonical works such will be written anymore, he also concedes that the technically great works can still be made, particularly in literature, which was to die later than fine and visual art. McCarthy is a great example honestly. If he’s remembered it will be for his style rather than his story or what he had to say. We should probably consider that Spengler approached these things as a historian. It would be foolish regardless to approach writing as if a bookmark in world history to leave behind for someone other than ourselves, like what we are to the Romans, for the simple fact that there may not be another us after us. The curiosity die to bygone and wayward cultures and civilizations is an attribute of Western culture and civilization. Once we’re gone, like the Greeks and Romans are gone, will anyone care what we wrote? Probably not. So writing to be a part of this canon is sort of senseless in the first place.

>>20787192
These are the idiots you argue with on /lit

>>20785791
>Marxists don't read Marx. They just read the Communist Manifesto and use it to fight for public recognition of every degeneracy they can get addicted to
I’ll throw my dog eared copy of Capital at your head for this libel, followed by

>>20787393
why’s it so common
young marxists lob empty threats
anonymously?

>>20787405
they are creatures of resentment

>>20785879
Go out like John Wayne.
Like those Muslims in France.
Charlie Hebdo, etc etc.
After all, they took your life from you.

>>20787120
Howard University went as far as to abolish its Classics department because muh racism and colonialism:
https://classicalstudies.org/scs-news/classics-howard-university
Princeton is taking a wrecking ball to it for similar reasons:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/02/magazine/classics-greece-rome-whiteness.html
Gotta make room for diversity:
https://nypost.com/2021/02/16/shakespeare-ditched-by-woke-teachers-over-misogyny-racism/
etc., etc.

Like I said, it doesn't take much digging.

>>20787439
>Go out like John Wayne
from stomach cancer?

>>20787382
>It would be foolish regardless to approach writing as if a bookmark in world history to leave behind for someone other than ourselves, like what we are to the Romans, for the simple fact that there may not be another us after us.
I could not disagree more with this doomerist nihilism. Contrast yourself with Thucydides:
>The absence of romance in my history will, I fear, detract somewhat from its interest; but if it be judged useful by those inquirers who desire an exact knowledge of the past as an aid to the interpretation of the future, which in the course of human things must resemble if it does not reflect it, I shall be content. In fine, I have written my work, not as an essay which is to win the applause of the moment, but as a possession for all time.

>>20786956
What Houellebeqc says isnt unique or interesting or even new. What makes him worth reading confuses me, on the one hand it could be that he's such a concrete atheist, on the other maybe its because someone so critical of the secular liberal world is so insanely popular in France, the epicenter for secular humanism.

>>20787440
the first article doesn't mention race, the second is behind a paywall, and the third is barely an article and is mostly about random public high school teachers, some of which aren't even teaching anymore.

>>20785677
Hitler was a failed artist as well.
Keep a tight lid on that boiling pot, commies.

>>20787484
It’s ironic because the Greeks themselves didn’t care almost at all about bygone and wayward cultures. Nevermind that such interest would belong necessarily to history and not necessarily fiction.

>>20787485
I didn’t say it was new. I said it was appropriate, you illiterate.

>>20785948
LMAO you're a literal child. He already told you /pol/ doesn't watch or like people like Shapiro, Peterson or Walsh but you still reply "yEs, TheY dO" like the actual 15 year old groomed leftoid you are. Again, no one there likes those people and OP was right, you don't even try to understand your enemy's worldview, you simply create in your head what you think they're like because you're too braindead to actually do proper research on them. And don't get me started with the "they don't know the definition of....". You dumb animals pretend to fight "Fascism" but you have no fucking idea about it. Your knowledge on it doesn't go far from Wikipedia's paragraphs or the retarded 14 points of Eco. Even If we gave you actual resources so you can learn, you would just ignore them and continue to be the same ignorant retards. You can't also define conservatism, capitalism or even liberalism yet here you are pretending to be the most politically literate people in the world so don't talk about your enemies not being able to define things because you're 100 times worse. Also the last part of your retarded essay is just a massive projection and you don't even realize it.

>>20787578
I'm not reading that but I'm happy for you

>>20785990
Someone: The jews are doing some sketchy stuff
Retards: OMG He's blaming the jews on his failures!!! Waaah waah He can't get pussy *followed by a wall of text of sexual related stuff and retarded assumptions*
I'll never understand why you retards are like this. It's beyond parody

>>20787578
Different anon here
>He already told you /pol/ doesn't watch or like people like Shapiro, Peterson or Walsh
Who do they follow? I barely have an idea who Shapiro and Peterson are

>>20787597
When did anyone in this thread say any of that stuff?

>>20787587
I shitted on you so hard and you have no counter arguments. But we can't expect too much from a molested 15 year old. Don't forget to take your meds, kid.

>>20787646
guy did you even look at the post you sent that textwall to?

>>20785677
>N Hannah Jones
N meaning nigger of course

>>20787602
Hitler, Mussoli, Primo de Rivera, Codreanu, Evola, etc. Actual fascists, far right people and reactionaries. Not som e dumb and overrated neo cons

Some actual poltoobers I can think of off the top of my head are alternative hypothesis (b&), keith woods, edward dutton, thulean perspective (Varg, b&), arguably black pigeon speaks, sam hyde (depoliticized), classically abby. I wish Varg was around still he was funny. But yeah some of the arguments itt are silly but that’s because people don’t care to distinguish between factions of the enemy (classical liberal=nazi for left, neoliberal=communist for right). These are intellectual errors but no one engaged in this shitflinging is ever going to care to fix them

ahhh sweet, a schizo thread

>>20786153
LMAO you're a literal child. He already told you /pol/ doesn't watch or like people like Shapiro, Peterson or Walsh but you still reply "yEs, TheY dO" like the actual 15 year old groomed leftoid you are. Again, no one there likes those people and OP was right, you don't even try to understand your enemy's worldview, you simply create in your head what you think they're like because you're too braindead to actually do proper research on them. And don't get me started with the "they don't know the definition of....". You dumb animals pretend to fight "Fascism" but you have no fucking idea about it. Your knowledge on it doesn't go far from Wikipedia's paragraphs or the retarded 14 points of Eco. Even If we gave you actual resources so you can learn, you would just ignore them and continue to be the same ignorant retards. You can't also define conservatism, capitalism or even liberalism yet here you are pretending to be the most politically literate people in the world so don't talk about your enemies not being able to define things because you're 100 times worse. Also the last part of your retarded essay is just a massive projection and you don't even realize it.

>>20787677
I think a big distinction is that "classical liberal" conservative right is allergic to fascism, while the "neoliberal" center left is not allergic socialism

>>20787679
more like a failed game developer thread

>>20787679

>>20786232
>writing to communicate
ngmi

>>20786232
There are no viable other mediums.

>>20787697
the "neoliberal" center left is not allergic to fascism, unirnically

>>20787532
I'm springboarding from you not arguing. Not everyone is out to kill you anon, stop being bitter.

>>20787597
>Someone: The jews are doing some sketchy stuff
That's not what he said
He just said "Nigger Jew Groomer" (sic)

>>20787697
>"classical liberal" conservative right is allergic to fascism
> the "neoliberal" center left is not allergic socialism
holy fucking meds

Fuck Faggots and Fuck Niggers

>>20786248

>Marxists
kek, you're on twitter m8, the chances of you knowing anyone who actually read and understood Marx are zero. Do you think they're reading Velben or Juvenal too? Kek. You have retarded enemies and you want to pretend it's a smart person's fight. Unironically believing Team Rocket is out to get you would be less retarded and just as autistic if you need to place yourself on a scale from retard to basic competence.
>but mom! an epileptic on twitter told me
Kek

>>20785998
this guy is such a pussy

>>20785677
>tfw white female and still not published
we were next. time to use an ethnic penname and get a spraytan.

>>20785998
why does the world wish to make me so mad

>>20786739
>i know a specific pattern of behavior recurrently demonstrated by a specific group is actively working against you, but just accept it or you might get angry!
topkek. also
>the world is out to get me
not the world, no. just certain groups privileged and sanctioned by certain institutions with the power to monitor and steer discourse (to the point of having tangible effects on livelihood).
>you’re no better than the people you criticize
spineless take, useful for the intended purpose. if the people he were criticizing were actually being preyed upon they would be legitimate in their professed beliefs. the problem is not in the action itself but in the lies behind it.
(You) need to stop arguing in bad faith and just mask off for us already

>>20786772
where does this fucking lie come from? did none of you actually read the book?

>>20785949
You don’t know much then

>>20785949
my fuckin boomer parents like walsh, brother. i’m pretty sure he’s not aristocratic enough for the /pol/acks

>>20786052
Might as well be

/pol/ likes Asha Logos, Varg, Edward Dutton, Morgoth, Keith Woods, The Golden One, Survive the Jive, etc.
They certainly don't like Ben Shapiro or Jordan Peterson lmao

>>20787597
they're like that because they're Jews

>>20786746
according to my teachers a school shooting simulator would be the most accurate depiction

>>20787684
name 1 (one) person /pol/ likes
protip: you cant

>>20788341

>>20786182
you will never hold a government job

>>20787856
Not the kind people are referring to when they talk about this sort of thing in America.

>>20787914
>meme response
trash,jpg

>>20788341
Gottlob Frege
Thomas Carlyle
King Edward I of England
Varg
Evola

>>20785998
Lol what a sissy.

>>20788365
No one on /pol/ has ever engaged with Frege's work.

>>20788073
it’s ok. feminism became intersectional to gain more power and then got devoured by the coalition it created. all revolutions devour their children and hopefully at some point it will finish eating itself. what are you writing?

>>20788452
Frege was German, a Platonist, and an antisemite, all three of which /pol/ likes

Thoughts?
https://youtu.be/N7mjsNLNzbc

>>20788475
>antisemite
I prefer the term "critical semite theory".

>>20785677
>there isn't a single classic that's been published during that period
Obviously not, how could an Ancient Greek or Roman write a new work? They're all dead.

>>20788365
>autist who ruined english philosophy beyond repair since
>looney
>an Englel king a hero of pol lmao ok buddy
>schizo anti civilization brother killer
>feeble pathetic failure who isnt even racist enough for pol

try again

>>20789097
How was Thomas Carlyle a loony?

>>20785696
I second this.
>>20785677
Anon, do you not want controllable masses of adult children who once the master morality the follow collapses are then forced to work in the acid mines? (Only half kidding.)
If you were smart you’d actually put those aphorisms from that dusty copy of the art of war to use.

>>20785699
Kike detector, oh kike detector
You go off near anon’s vector

>>20786153
Yeah you’re fucking retarded they hate Ben cause he’s a filthy kike (which is true) and they literally call Jp juden peterstein

>>20786153
okay groomer

>>20785677
>& critical of their own "privilege."
She refuses to see that she's part of the problem and continues to support the Marxist gutting of modern creativity.

>>20786411
Same

>>20786929
>>20787029
>Josh Cohen "vastly superior" to anything
lol. lmao.

>>20789545
She put privilege in quotation marks

>>20789560
It's a clever way to toe the line. Sarcastic but non-committal.

>twitter screencap thread
Not gunna bump the thread but for real how do people look at shit like this and say "we're not racist" while being racist against white people? Why not just judge people based on the quality of their books?

>>20785998
Doing or saying anything based on a person's race is the definition of racism, good or bad, it doesn't matter how your colour it (heh) it's still racism. Giving someone a darker colour a better chance than someone with a lighter skin colour BECAUSE of their skin colour is racism.

>>20789616
Yes, and they don't care. These ideological aggressors are at war with you. They know it's illogical. For them the ends justify the means. These ebin 2015 takes are a waste of time.

>>20789616
>Doing or saying anything based on a person's race is the definition of racism
They literally changed the definition so that only white people can be racist.

>>20789603
because you can't meassure potential sales on talent. You define concepts that are currently selling and target those. Just like crime novels were huge in the 40's, minorities are the thing now. It'll be something else in the future. That's how it always worked.