/lit/ - Literature

>>20770049
>french are pedos
in other words, the sky is blue

White people are degenerates in general but the French are particularly decadent. Something to do with French Revolution and wholesale adoption of enlightenment era thoughts

Error in translation. They were really referring to the laws surrounding the candy known in the USA as “sour patch kids”

>>20770181
>white people are degenerates in general
What is bacha bazi?

>>20770049
They signed dozens of petitions every day, I don't think they read most of them.

>>20770181
Ack

>>20770049
Why didn't Ellul sign it? Was he a crypto-reactionary?

>>20770049
They would be based if they only did it for cute cunny. Boys need to grow into men capable of maintaining society, not molested into becoming degenerate homosexuals and spreading the virus. Women on the other hand are children no matter how old they are, so it doesn't matter.

Depravity is ingrained in French DNA

>>20770049
There are two laws in man: Reason and flesh. If you deny reason its divine connection then all that's left is flesh and flesh wants to coom.

>>20770049
This is why Ellul is logos

>>20770430
No. It is violence, when society no longer has reason to fear violence for bad actions they grow worse. Your entire creed is riddled with child rape, Jews, Christiams and Muslims. It is the one thing you all agree on. Every leadership structure in all branches preys on children.

Living Philosophy has a video that explains most of this, can't remember why off the top of my head but the info is there if you're genuinely interested

>>20770261
too irrelevant to even pass the petition to him, probably
there are some other notable absences but that doesn't immediately mean they protested against it something

>>20770049
>teenage girl having sex that will lead nowhere good
>same girl entering a functional marriage bad
Nu-age of consent is the subversive bullshit fitting into the anti-natalist and gender warfare madness, and I'm tired of pretending it's not. All that preventing older men going with younger women does is decrease the probability of serious first relationship.
At worst there were a couple of the signers that would just pump and dump said young girls, like Beauvoir and Sartre. Which amounts to the same thing as they would do having sex with other 14 year olds.
It was also the 1970s. People thought that the sexual revolution meant there would be less bullshit about family courting. In practice it meant trannies, rape hoaxes and state enforced homosexuality. One of the big reasons people didn't lay all middle school girls before was the consideration of the parental authority. When this was dropped as a societal norm, there was nothing standing in the way. People had not yet invented the retarded bullshit about teenagers not knowing about sex or being incapable of taking decisions. It was a different time concerning teenagers. plenty of 14 yo were still going to actual work at the time. The artificial prolongation of infancy to the early 20s for the masses had just started.

>>20770181
Worldview completely warped by American memetics. Reactionaries were cunnysseurs.

>>20770049
https://www.uib.no/sites/w3.uib.no/files/attachments/foucaultdangerchildsexuality_0.pdf
>>20770261
Ellul wasn't a Paris intellectual, he worked in Bordeaux. And I doubt he would care about signing a petition.

>>20770049
> abolishing age of consent
You didn't even read it

The petitions main point was to align the age of consent for gay sex (18) with the age of consent for straight sex (15-16). I think you can either agree with this change on principle or your issue is with something outside the law at hand aka no gay sex allowed at all.

>>20770743
>aka no gay sex allowed at all

Yes. Gay men are a danger to children and should not be permitted to be around them.

>>20770049
>Why did so many Marxist philosophers support abolishing age of consent laws
FTFY

Anti Nazi reactionaries. They related pretty much everything to authoritarianism and the proposed antidote tended to be "love", mostly expressed as sex.
A fairly prevalent idea was sexual "repression" of young boys is what lead to the holocaust. The idea is still heavily promoted like in the narratives about modern violence coming from sexual frustration. This narrative lead to men self identifying as "incels" and consciously acting out the narrative.
So to avoid repressing their sexuality you should introduce them to sex early with older role models that can teach them how to love instead of hate.
Reading romantic stories about knights and princesses to your child is child abuse that leads to holocausts.

Say, theorically, we lower age of consent to 12 years. Would society implode into chaos, death, and destruction the next day?
Cause I feel like nothing major would change, like, at all.

>>20771046
There is absolutely nothing to be gained and a lot to be lost.

>>20771046
You gays are hilariously insane. There are easier ways to commit suicide that dont involve molesting children.

>>20770049
(((french)))

>>20771061
Degenerates would fuck kids and trad larpers would marry them

>>20771083
Both involve pressures and responsibilities imposed on the kids.
There is something to be said about giving kids responsibilities early but it makes sense to start small. Biologically sex and its consequences is the final mission.
If you think of the developing brain as a neural net you don't want to confuse the basic training with advanced stuff. You want to build up on strong foundations. To make them strong they need reinforcement that's not confused by other stimuli.
When the final mission is started the biology doesn't prioritize playing around and exploring as much. It is a signal that the training is somewhat over, the vital importance of training is diminished a lot when the goal is reached.
People that think sex is the answer like to point at Bonobo chimps as a utopia but they're a tiny population in an isolated gorge that never expanded or discovered anything. When real chimps find the gorge, which is inevitable they will slaughter every degenerate Bonobo easily.

>>20771166
>Both involve pressures and responsibilities imposed on the kids.
Note that it's not just the kids being fucked and married that it affects. This is now part of the reality of all kids so they have to account for it. Spend processing power on it instead of math or whatever.
And I really mean now. It's not just hypothetical.

>>20771061
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceleration_(human_development)
"changes in body height and appearance of the first menstruation (menarche)."

>>20771046
>Cause I feel like nothing major would change
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajnal_line

>>20771247
That's extremely undesirable. The differences between humans and apes can be summed up with neotony. Shorter childhoods translates into the population having less ability to navigate new situations.
Women and blacks have shorter childhoods than white men.

>>20770327
>cunny
kill
your
self

There is no philosophical or moral foundation for the age of consent. Traditionally, even in Europe there was child marriage. Sometimes between two children or a child is betrothed to an adult.
>>20770181
It's not about white people though. Lowest ages of consent are usually in non-white countries and white countries usually have less child marriage.

>>20770598
Yeah, before recently children were treated as small adults with less rights.

>>20770598
As I said. They've always been degenerates. Going all the way back to early reactionaries.

>>20772057
Child marriage is still far better than white girls getting all their holes penetrated by 5+ boys by the age of 16.

>>20772083
Sex outside of marriage should be outlawed. age of consent should be the age you are married.

>>20772057
>There is no philosophical or moral foundation for the age of consent
Children are dependents on adult guardians. Those guardians are entrusted to protect and maintain the responsibility of upbringing these children, since they are dependents and incapable of providing for themselves, and lack the cognitive, physical, material and mental capability to function and live in society. In extension, and obviously, minors are vulnerable to being taken advantage of and abused by adults. Colloquially to this, is laws regarding sexual interaction. Sexual activities, penetration, and so on, are harmful to humans who are not fully developed. Just like powerlifting or driving a truck is dangerous to children. And the consequences for this are from minor physical harm to lifelong trauma to death.

There's very basic, straightforward moral basis for AOC, it's just as straightforward as outlawing murder and theft. You pedos are just a very, very odd lot. You're either intentionally slippery, like Sartre and those other prominent literary pedophiles who think only of fulfilling a secure environment for their vileness, or you're mentally/neurologically damaged or had some kind of impaired upbringing that prevents you from processing a very simple concept.

>>20770455
>Your entire creed is riddled with child rape, Jews, Christiams and Muslims.
As we all know pagan societies had strict AoC considerations

>>20772112
But adults are also vulnerable to abuse and being taken advantage of. Not every adult is a guardian of a minor.
>And the consequences for this are from minor physical harm to lifelong trauma to death.
Well this again wraps around to, is what your doing harming the child? Then it should be illegal. Having sex with a minor doesn't necessarily harm them. It is a possibility, yes.
I agree that children who have no sexual desires or needs can easily be harmed by sex. But what about children who are old enough to masturbate or have sexual desires? Young boys lust over older women frequently and some young girls like older men as well. For example, many young men and women have had fantasies about their schoolteachers or celebrities.
>are harmful to humans who are not fully developed
Well, not really. Since young people have sex with each other frequently.
>Those guardians are entrusted to protect and maintain the responsibility of upbringing these children, since they are dependents and incapable of providing for themselves
But this conflicts with the facts that children are allowed to work (and if allowed by a judge) separate from their own parents. Some adults are dependants and can't provide for themselves.

>>20770193
Many afghanis are white and of aryan descent.

>>20772172
Being a retard is no excuse for being a pedophile. Die slow you disgusting piece of shit.

>>20772172
>But adults are also vulnerable to abuse and being taken advantage of. Not every adult is a guardian of a minor.
Oh okay, I guess then we should let kindergarteners sign mortgage contracts, vote and fully accept their judicial testimonies in court. It's amazing you "people" think this shitty 80 IQ slippery slope is a hot comeback.

>Well this again wraps around to, is what your doing harming the child? Then it should be illegal. Having sex with a minor doesn't necessarily harm them. It is a possibility, yes.
Yeah and we should absolutely take 50-50's with children and hand them off to predators on the off-chance that these pedophiles will be kind enough not to impregnate 11 year olds.
>But what about children who are old enough to masturbate or have sexual desires
We have a thing for that; it's called the age of consent.
>many young men and women have had fantasies about their schoolteachers or celebrities
Many young and old people fantasize about a lot of stuff. Do you think just because someone out there fantasizes about guro we should let them hack people up? Laws aren't based on fantasy, midwit.

Amazing, halfway through your post, and you've said nothing but pure retardation. "but what about.. but what if... but maybe they want to... but it's only harmful if certain condition is met...." I wonder what else is there to be had with your worthless diatribe.

>Since young people have sex with each other frequently
Teenagers having sex together, in their own pool, is not *as* harmful. There are no power dynamics or leverages. They are largely in the same mental capacity, and are experiencing normal coming-of-age activities with other people who are also in the discovery stage. The odds are not rigged as long as there are no adults.

>But this conflicts with the facts that children are allowed to work
In safe fields.
>separate from their own parents
If proven that their parents are abusive.

Outliers don't disprove or prove a rule, by the way. Bringing this up sabotages your argument for pedophilia even more.

>Some adults are dependants and can't provide for themselves
see: literally my first point. false dichotomy.

0.5/10, typical MAP advocating midwit. Has nothing to put on the table other than slippery slopes, false dichotomies and whataboutisms.

>>20772223
>I guess then we should let kindergarteners sign mortgage contracts, vote and fully accept their judicial testimonies in court.
Not the same as using someone's body to essentially masturbate
>something something impregnating 11 year olds
If they're not supposed to get pregnant why did God allow them to become pregnant at that age?
>Many young and old people fantasize about a lot of stuff. Do you think just because someone out there fantasizes about guro we should let them hack people up? Laws aren't based on fantasy, midwit.
Having sex with a minor and murder are not the same thing though.
>Teenagers having sex together, in their own pool, is not *as* harmful.
Why is it not as harmful?
>There are no power dynamics or leverages
Didn't we just have a whole social movement about adults taking advantage of other adults through power dynamics and leverages?
And yes there can be power dynamics and leverages between two people of the same age, even children.
>In safe fields.
Children used to work the same jobs as adults though, even when there was an age of consent.
>false dichotomy.
This is ironic considering your whole post is whataboutisms and various other fallacies.
Why do you think that having sex with a 16 year old as an adult is the same thing as decapitating a newborn and skullfucking it?
Murder has it's own justification of being immoral. Murdering someone ALWAYS harmful to the person your murdering.
And your use of the word midwit is really telling

>>20772264
god doesn't exist. please come back when you no longer believe in fairy tales and argue with convictions based on verifiable information. I'm not wasting another post on someone who believes in virgin birth, resurrection and splitting an ocean with a tap from a cane.

Your argument will not lead to a fruitful conclusion in the way it is evolving. I personally feel that defending age of consent and undermining pro-pedophilia/hebephilia/ephebophilia views should be approached with an ethics-based rhetoric instead of pointing out the logical flaws pertaining to the other side. We are not psychologists ; the question is not whether the mind of a child suffers from early sexual contact with an adult, but whether as a society we shall tolerate such conduct and enshrine its permission or its prohibition. The fundamental question pertains to the actual ethical ramifications of setting a fixed age of consent for sex, a certain arbitrary threshold that corresponds to the best possible compromise between the two worlds of discovery and maturity. There exists a definitive answer to this question that goes beyond anyone's personal feelings on the matter, and finding this answer through thorough intellectual inquiry is all that matters.

>>20772288
God existing is irrelevant to the actual argument though. Also without God, there is no objective morals or logic. Only how you personally feel.

>>20772223
>Teenagers having sex together, in their own pool, is not *as* harmful. There are no power dynamics or leverages.
How naive. lol
Also, are you aware of how many teenage single mothers there are in this world??
Don't you think this is harmful to them, to their children and to us as a society?
Who do you think can be a better father to their offspring, an adult man of stable income and a path in life or their clueless classmate? Considering that this teenage girl will be having sex one way or another.

Depends on the philosopher. Sartre just wanted Jews to be able to rape gentile children.

Deleuze and Foucault were both concerned with the French Republic's discussion of state mandated miscegenation camps and other insane shit like that. The tl;dr is that if the State can tell you when you are allowed to fuck, it can tell you when you are allowed to fuck. This is why there were even Age of Consent laws in France at the time, mind you: to setup for future legislation.

>>20772327
But Yahweh's existence is precisely what allows for moral subjectivism and the rejection of objective morality.

>>20770049
Hate Sartres politics but nausea saved my life ama

>>20770049
Because the whole consent theory is stupid.
Mandatory rape is based

>>20772757
>is that if the State can tell you when you are allowed to fuck, it can tell you when you are allowed to fuck
typo?

>>20772680
single teenage moms are a product of their environment, not laws.
>Don't you think this is harmful to them, to their children and to us as a society?
very.
>Who do you think can be a better father to their offspring, an adult man of stable income and a path in life or their clueless classmate?
Neither; proper sex-ed to prevent this from happening.

It's still an outlier, and often a byproduct of bad parenting or bad upbringing. Did you know victims of child sexual abuse are 3 times more likely to be promiscuous when growing up? Oh, that doesn't suit your agenda, so it should go under the rug.
>Considering that this teenage girl will be having sex one way or another
It's hilarious how you pedos talk about women like they're less than human. But I guess that's the prerequisite to someone who fantasizes daily about fondling kids.

>>20772785
No, that's intentional. If the State is allowed to say
>You can't fuck before 15, and can't have anal sex before 18
It can say
>You are legally required to fuck who we (the State) say you are starting at 15

This is the reasoning that the French Republic used at the time. The entire reason that France HAD an Age of Consent was to act as a precedent for further legislation to control who people could and could not fuck. The point Foucault made is that the stuff about sodomy (assfucking a girl counts as "sodomy" here) assumes that sodomy is some kind of special carveout that is different from vaginal sex; that sexuality can be carved up and each piece treated differently. This is of course the intention: to let the State control human sexuality prior to any kind of actual offense. Why does a woman's choice to get assfucked at 17 differ from that of 18? It doesn't; the law is there to let the state say that certain acts are illegal in absence of any kind of actual harm done to a victim.

Rape was illegal before the 1945 laws (the petition came about due to the amending of them, lowering the age of sodomy from 21 to 18, in 1974), however, which would punish any instances of someone raping a 12 year old. This of course leads to the issue of whether 12 year olds can consent, but the laws make it so that it doesn't matter: By denying a 17 year old woman's consent to get assfucked, the government also denied a 12 year olds consent (resent?) to not get assfucked if the law changed.

Pedophiles should be hanged because having sex with children is inherently immoral, and the French Republic was totally cool with pedophilia, it just wanted the State to have control over it (remember, it was legal for Foucault to fuck little boys in Algeria).

>>20770049
it's amazing that lacan didn't

>>20772810
>It's still an outlier
kek. I don't know where you come from, but I bet is a good place.
Yet it's still good to see you don't even try and deny the RISING trend.

>>20772810
>Neither; proper sex-ed to prevent this from happening.
If you wanna get utopic, I will let you get utopic.

>Did you know victims of child sexual abuse are 3 times more likely to be promiscuous when growing up?
Anon, look around the world we're living in! I think it's safe to say that few times in history were as promiscuous as ours, with our tinders, assorted hook-up apps and no-shame culture.
But I'm talking about accountability.
I'm talking about US as a State paying for the bills and nurturing that in other more sensible times would be paid by the family. We're more and more difusing responsability that could easily be concentrated in a single guy if the family had a bigger saying in the choice of partners as it had/has in more traditional cultures.

>>20772810
>It's hilarious how you pedos talk about women like they're less than human.
Idk what you mean. She will be less human coz she will be having sex? lol

>But I guess that's the prerequisite to someone who fantasizes daily about fondling kids.
Just to be clear, I'm talking about TEENAGERS here.
And I know you don't know, but not everyone is an american. So stop trying to push your 19 century puritan morals WITHOUT the underlying religion to support it. It gets tiresome.

>>20770455
>white supremacist
>obsessed with pedophilia
why are you like this?

>>20772828
interesting background

>>20772940
>kek. I don't know where you good place.
I'm not from burgerstan, if that's what you're asking.
>Yet it's still good to see you don't even try and deny the RISING trend.
False. It's not rising.
>The US teen birth rate (births per 1,000 females aged 15 to 19 years) has been declining since
1991. Teen birth rates continued to decline from 17.4 per 1,000 females in 2018 to 16.7 per
1,000 females in 2019. This is another record low for US teens and a decrease of 4% from
2018.1,2 Birth rates fell 7% for females aged 15 to 17 years and 4% for females aged 18 to 19
years.
https://www.cdc.gov/teenpregnancy/about/index.htm#:~:text=The%20US%20teen%20birth%20r
ate,decrease%20of%204%25%20from%202018.
Loaded statement. When MAPoids aren't LARPing with pseudoscience, they always try to make
the world seem like it's a dystopian hellhole and they're here to save it from degeneracy, even
though your kind are literally in the nucleus of degeneracy.
>If you wanna get utopic,
If you think good education is utopic, then you must be living in one of the worst bits of
burgerstan. but even in your country there's a lot of people pushing for these things and trying to
set things right instead of the "it's all fucked, so might as well" you pedos swerve towards when
your other arguments fail.
>Anon, look around the world we're living in! I think it's safe es in history were as promiscuou
Have you ever heard of clinical promiscuity, you uneducated burger-feasting lard? Are you too
retarded to even follow your brain dead train of thought? I deign to feed you an important piece
of information about the effects of CSA on victims, and your immediate response is "LOL!
EVERYONE IS PROMISCUOUS ANYWAY.... LETS POUR MORE FUEL TO THE FIRE!". Even
going by your own unhinged pseud /pol/larper logic and mannerism, it's still contradicting itself.
>But I'm talking about accountability.
Mere minutes earlier you told me that adults are just as susceptible to being taken advantage of,
now you've casually done a flip on your argument; adults are always trustworthy, honourable
and will hold themselves accountable for their actions, right? they definitely don't leave any
single mothers, do they?
>I'm talking about US as a State paynsible times would be paid by the family
Conservatard talking point. It's the government's job to pay for its people and take care of them.
You have aversion towards this idea because you're an indoctrinated, individualistic, objectivist
amerigolem. Government, social contract and civilized society is too good for people like you.
>We're more and more that could easily be concgger saying in the choice of partners as it
had/has in more traditional cultures
What the fuck are you even saying? Are you saying that the biggest problem for families is that
men can't fuck teenagers? What is "traditional society"? Are you one of those pseuds who think
it was normal for adults to marry teens in "trad" societies?

>>20772940
>kek. I don't know where you good place.
I'm not from burgerstan, if that's what you're asking.
>Yet it's still good to see you don't even try and deny the RISING trend.
False. It's not rising.
>The US teen birth rate (births per 1,000 females aged 15 to 19 years) has been declining since 1991. Teen birth rates continued to decline from 17.4 per 1,000 females in 2018 to 16.7 per 1,000 females in 2019. This is another record low for US teens and a decrease of 4% from 2018.1,2 Birth rates fell 7% for females aged 15 to 17 years and 4% for females aged 18 to 19 years.
https://www.cdc.gov/teenpregnancy/about/index.htm#:~:text=The%20US%20teen%20birth%20rate,decrease%20of%204%25%20from%202018.

Loaded statement. When MAPoids aren't LARPing with pseudoscience, they always try to make the world seem like it's a dystopian hellhole and they're here to save it from degeneracy, even though your kind are literally in the nucleus of degeneracy.

>If you wanna get utopic,
If you think good education is utopic, then you must be living in one of the worst bits of burgerstan. but even in your country there's a lot of people pushing for these things and trying to set things right instead of the "it's all fucked, so might as well" you pedos swerve towards when your other arguments fail.

>Anon, look around the world we're living in! I think it's safe es in history were as promiscuou
Have you ever heard of clinical promiscuity, you uneducated burger-feasting lard? Are you too retarded to even follow your brain dead train of thought? I deign to feed you an important piece of information about the effects of CSA on victims, and your immediate response is "LOL! EVERYONE IS PROMISCUOUS ANYWAY.... LETS POUR MORE FUEL TO THE FIRE!". Even going by your own unhinged pseud /pol/larper logic and mannerism, it's still contradicting itself.

>But I'm talking about accountability.
Mere minutes earlier you told me that adults are just as susceptible to being taken advantage of, now you've casually done a flip on your argument; adults are always trustworthy, honourable and will hold themselves accountable for their actions, right? they definitely don't leave any single mothers, do they?
>I'm talking about US as a State paynsible times would be paid by the family
Conservatard talking point. It's the government's job to pay for its people and take care of them. You have aversion towards this idea because you're an indoctrinated, individualistic, objectivist amerigolem. Government, social contract and civilized society is too good for people like you.

>We're more and more that could easily be concgger saying in the choice of partners as it had/has in more traditional cultures
What the fuck are you even saying? Are you saying that the biggest problem for families is that men can't fuck teenagers? What is "traditional society"?

>>20773011
>I'm not from burgerstan
>Proceeds to post data from burgerstan to prove his point
lol

>>20773011
>1991
I'm not sure, does it have to do with that Supreme Court's ABORTION decision?
We should just kill the babies, I see.

>When MAPoids aren't LARPing with pseudoscience
Scarecrow

>even though your kind are literally in the nucleus of degeneracy.
Said the rainbow agendered guy.

>If you think good education is utopic
I know girls that age, they know pretty well how to use a codom; they just find it annoying and unpleasurable.
It's that simple.

>Have you ever heard of clinical promiscuity
Sure. She's not a whore, she's just sick...
We should pity her!
kek

>EVERYONE IS PROMISCUOUS ANYWAY.... LETS POUR MORE FUEL TO THE FIRE!"
No. I'm talking about having LESS partness. Since you seem to care so much about mental issues, you should know this is not healthy to the person and to society. But your solution to this complex issue (I bet) it's that they should just learn more about STD's and call it a day. Skipping completelly the ethical part of sexual education that the State, as much as it tries, cannot quite provide.

>>20773011
>Mere minutes earlier you told me that adults are just as susceptible to being taken advantage of,
>now you've casually done a flip on your argument
You're talking with different people.

>>20773011
>Conservatard talking point
You're too busy paint-marking your 'enemies'. What for?
There's no perceivable crowd. You're not gonna get a shiny little star for this.


>>20773011
>It's the government's job to pay for its people and take care of them.
The family is the basis of the State and not the other way around. Can't you see it? I'm saying we're gonna pay a sour price for forgetting this.
The State is powerful, not Omnipotent.
The goverment can and should do a lot, not everything. This is a call for self-responsability.
The way things stand,
we're building a skyscraper
that is floating in the air
massively without a foundation.


>You have aversion towards this idea because you're an indoctrinated, individualistic, objectivist
amerigolem. Government, social contract and civilized society is too good for people like you.
Projection, projection, projection.

>>20773011
>Are you one of those pseuds who think
>it was normal for adults to marry teens in "trad" societies?
I have people alive (elders, children of said people) who tell me this wasn't something so frowned upon a few decades ago, in my culture.

Now, this is far from being a panacea;
but still, I can't see the big deal.

>>20772289
>There exists a definitive answer to this question
How do you know? If there's a real empirical metric to be found it most likely would be different across races for example, there would probably be large differences on much smaller scales too.
The obvious solution is addressing the problem at its source which is nihilistic hedonism or whatever you want to call it, empty consumerist pleasure seeking with no meaning. As if there's some age at which this culture become ok and healthy.

>>20770049
their president married his teacher, dont attack western culture like this.

>>20770245
>signing stuff without reading it
so they were all midwits?

>NOOOO YOU CAN'T BE WITH THE 17-YEAR-OLD SHE'S UNDER THE AGE OF CONSETERINOOOOO

>>20773434
Actual pedos are bad but i literally have not ever seen a single good argument for why it is morally wrong to have sex with people who are under 18 but over the age of "sexual awakening".

It doesn't even go against Kant's categorical imperative. If it became an universal law overnight that it's acceptable to consider that people who have gone through puberty can consent to sex, a hypothetical 14 year old me would see only benefits (because i now have adult women who can freely have sex with this teenage self—a wider variety, more options). And i can quite certainly say that this would apply to girls too.

Literal kids i can understand why it's "harmful". But teenagers? Literally no reason to argue against that. Every time the subject is brought up those who disagree do nothing but show themselves as complete dogmatic drones who can do nothing but emotional shit-flinging.

>>20772136
You miss the point, every organization that professes to be the moral conscious of a people or nation is precluded from being so when they are found to be abusing children in ritualistic manner. As with any other organization they should be burned out of the nation and a replacement found.

>>20772948
Because it is everywhere. With many of the same perpetrators being responsible. It is tiring.

>>20773481
You're a pedophile, get mad

>>20773597
See? This is what i'm talking about. Pure dogmatism, complete refusal to rationalize anything

>>20773481
>>20773606

Every scrap of evidence shows that disproportionate age differences in early sexual encounters are positively correlated with impeded mental and social development in later years. Everything from g factor to ability to socialize are seriously effected. This is why Fascism is growing more palatable to people, as a valid reaction to what is happening in the world.

>>20773644
By my experience, women who've had sexual experiences at an adolescent age (with older people) and are there to tell me about it without any problem just end up being like any other woman.
And that evidence surely would not apply to me myself, as i most certainly would have very much enjoyed messing around with an older woman at the height of my puberty. And almost every single one of my male friends also share this same sentiment.

I think this is a matter where it's best for us to reach by reason alone, à priori. We clearly both have evidence that seems to refute the other person's point, yet just going back and forth throwing that around is hardly gonna become anything other than shit-flinging.

>>20770261
Ellul was a Christian in a sea of atheist degenerates.

>>20773644
I'm in agreement with this. Whether they differentiate between pedophilia and pederasty it's the same error in the adults brain; the same as the clergy;
1) they form a positive pedagogic (no pun intended) relationship with a young person, which is fine in and of itself
2) their own personal character and intellect is fucking batshit retarded through (ideology, religion, personal mental retardation)
3) they find themselves developing sexual feelings toward the child, from being ill-disciplined; unable to tell the difference between friendship and fucking, and they fuck the child

I think the same thing of men and women as well; a difference in ageof of intellectual difference where one is clearly more experienced than the other, places the more experienced one in a kind of parental position, and taking advantage of that (or, rather: throwing that away) for sex abuse is reflective of a unfit character, in general.

>>20773670
>being like any other woman.
..what a tattooed pig-whore in orange face paints? lol that's no boast, anon.

I'm sorry you were taken advantage of by an older man, by the way. i hope it hasn't jaded you too much as a young woman, but that rather you've learned that the world is a dark place; that the smiley people are the most evil people, and that it's better to learn these things early on.

>>20773690
Obviously they were former-christians who'd made the LaVeyan error and internalized the nonsense about immoral things being 'of the devil' and therefore 'good'.

That's my guess anyway. It's the mentality of the former christian whose been holding back from smoking crack and having gay sex into their 50's, then finally does.

>>20773703
>unable to tell the difference between friendship and fucking
Probably we could call this "Thessalian".

>>20773721
You do nothing but act like a child and create pointless strawmans. This is clearly a sign that you're easily emotionally distressed by "controversial" topics and definitely aren't ready to have a discussion of any relevant level (and i'm not even saying anything too "fucked up" either since i'm talking about teenagers and not children—this is just pure american dogmatic brainwashing).

>>20773670
You clearly do not understand how aggregated data works. Or if you do, you have simply refused to acknowledge anything I have said and said people should be allowed to do it anyway. You are a pedophile and should be hanged.

>>20773744
>pure american dogmatic brainwashing
Well I'm none of those things.

Sorry, I wasn't whoever you were talking to earlier. I just jumped in to make those jokes and call you a girl.

Still it's an odd position you describe; I had a few encounters with much older women when I was a teenager and looking back on the occasions they were quite gross and the women were obviously pedophiles who were enjoying being in total control over a kid. I was boasting at the time as well, obviously, but it's funny how if the positions were reversed and those older women and been older men that they would've spent the 2010's in prison.

>controversial
this? not really.

>>20773744
You may even a have a point about early sexual experiences creating a more mature mentality, but I dont think you'd say the same thing about a 50yr old man and a 13 yr old girl, so the point kind of collapses.

Really it's the 'commodification' of sex and the infantlism ofadults which stunts the idea of sex; I think of the ancient minoan paintings - if we had grown up in a society of topless women do you think we'd (or our society) would develop a fetish of tits in the modern way? fetishes come from repression, so to take away the repression is to remove the vice.

This is a healthier approach.

>>20773756
>pedophile
>teenagers
And this is the dogmatic american speaking again. Refusal to use any logic, just emotional outbursts the likes of those of the devout religious.

>>20773764
>Still it's an odd position you describe; I had a few encounters with much older women when I was a teenager and looking back on the occasions they were quite gross and the women were obviously pedophiles who were enjoying being in total control over a kid. I was boasting at the time as well, obviously, but it's funny how if the positions were reversed and those older women and been older men that they would've spent the 2010's in prison.
It really is. I find interesting what this anon said >>20773781 about culture and the "what if" of "if we lived in a different society". Prior to modern "18 cutoff point" age of consent laws, we still had our society and we functioned normally. So what was the gain in establishing this? [Although we have to remind ourselves too that marriage was still a strong establishment back then and modern hypergamy would be seen as an "abomination" in those times, and we have to take this in consideration—maybe what is bad isn't teenage sexual relations themselves, but teenage promiscuity? It's interesting to ponder about that.]

>>20773781
>but I dont think you'd say the same thing about a 50yr old man and a 13 yr old girl
Well i think this one would be "bad" (bad as in just bad, not "evil" or morally reprehensive) for the same reasons a 60 year old dating a 20 year old would be bad. By the time the female is slightly grown, the man will be on the verge of dying and will no longer be able to provide, to look after the family, etc. Anyway, just the problems of extreme age gaps in relationships themselves.

>>20772761
why did you like nausea? what about it saved your life?

>>20773852
>And this is the dogmatic american speaking again. Refusal to use any logic, just emotional outbursts the likes of those of the devout religious.

I clearly said disproportionate age differences, most places have Romeo and Juliette laws to preclude those of similar age from being unjustly prosecuted. Hang, nonce.

>>20773852
>maybe what is bad isn't teenage sexual relations themselves, but teenage promiscuity?
moreso this: >>20773703

I mean, the older person is in the lead in these situations; if they're infantilized themselves then they're thinking and acting in a perverted way about the child/teenager and don't know any better. I don't think the child/teenager is at fault, I agree with the laws on this one.

>extreme age gaps
I don't think there's any different to the mentality of this whether it's a man or a woman doing it, as the imbalance of power is going on and the adults are both in the pedagogic role and instead of being good parents (so to speak) they're raping the child and passing on that as normal to the child. I'd only insist that the adult, whether they like it or not, is default in the role of role model and instructor to the child.

I wasn't really making any point of age of consent to sex though, about the minoans, only that by not having a society consider the human body as a perverted sexual object (to be covered up or shamed for glancing at) would not inculcate that mentality into people in the society. It's speculative obviously but I really don't think the modern world would have such a babyish take on sex acts or the body if it was something normal and everyday and 'not' hidden away and made illicit. You might still have problems with foreigners coming into the society and going berserk but that's something else.

>>20773871
>most places have Romeo and Juliette laws to preclude those of similar age from being unjustly prosecuted.
but what if Romeo is a 80yr old man who identifies as a 10 yr old girl?

aoc laws in the usa and west in general stem from the same moralistic protestant extremism movement which pushed banning alcohol, "muscular Christianity", banning gambling, banning tobacco sales, etc.

There's a reason blue laws, prohibition, and age of consent laws were passed around the same time, it was the same groups heavily pushing it. primarily midwestern calvinist protestant government paternalists who happened to be in power in the USA and UK at the the time (and still are in the USA in certain states). none of these laws were based in science or facts, it was about forcing the government to create "moral standards" in a populace which had a growing immigrant population with non protestant values. (irish and italians and slavs, at the time)

>>20773944
>it was about forcing the government to create "moral standards" in a populace which had a growing immigrant population with non protestant values. (irish and italians and slavs, at the time)
that's what they get for killing 16+ million of their own people earlier in the season.

>>20773962
>that's what they get for killing 16+ million of their own people earlier in the season.
that season had a pretty good penultimate end though, where the evil wizard in the stovepipe hat gets his brains blown out in the theater.

>>20770049
So all people who want pedophiles to die here.
I have a problem we're I'm either a pedophile or have undiagnosed (to scare to tell my therapist) POCD.
I find it very difficult to have a life partner or biological children not entirely because I fear being caught or harming kids but because its too morally wrong to lie.
I guess a solution would be to be honest with my partner before things get too serious but I almost did it but couldn't and instead I ended up insulting my partner into breaking out with me. I am more comfortable with the idea of letting me accept me but there's also a part of me that would be disgusted in them accepting me.
Anyway arguments for and against my conundrum and current moral standing.

>>20773962
as if WASPs didn't kill 1 million+ of each other in the bloodiest war ever seen up to that time 50 years earlier, kek. anglos will genocide you in the name of "moral standards"

>>20773988
>1 million+ of each other in the bloodiest war ever seen up to that time 50 years earlier,
16 million, I think you'll find was the death tally of the US 'Civil' War. We're talking about the same war.

>>20774022
16 million is WAY too much, even the highest estimates with civ deaths are 1.1 million at most

>>20770778
Also Christianity, the biggest supporter of pedophilia globally.

>>20774030
eh i've heard 16, shrug shrug; starvation and disease is probably counted in this.

>>20773481
When I was 14 (turning 15) I dated a 21 year old girl for several months who eventually gave me a blowjob.

Didn't impact me whatsoever. Blowjob was a bit shit, though, I think.

>>20770049
Because having sex with a 14 year old is not pedophilia (as long as you marry her first and be responsible)

>>20774576
You now post on 4chan, so maybe you didn’t exactly dodge the bullet.

>>20774588
I was posting on 4chan at the time, already. This was around 2011.

>>20774588
>You now post on 4chan, so maybe you didn’t exactly dodge the bullet.
KEK

>>20774595
>>20774588
Lol

>>20771061
>There is absolutely nothing to be gained

Age of Consent should be 16.

>>20775208
>Age of Consent should be the average age of menarche
ftfty

>>20770181
White people are one of the few people to have made a rule against marrying 14 year olds.

>>20775208
Age of consent should be 14. I had my first GF who was 14 and I was 19 and no one was worried about that. It was also the 2000s and I think people have become way more sexually conservative and repressed in the modern world. .

>>20770455
>conquer africa
>colonise africa
>wtf, why do all these africans speak french and like france and consider themselves francified???

>>20775345
I like french colonial strategy. They literally just said, enjoy our culture, and Africans adopted french and french practices overnight. Seemed kind of like a continuation of Roman colonization.

>>20770049
Priests being pedos is just garbage propaganda made by the media, truth is academics, overeducated people, who have become inhuman and arrogant are the most likely to be pedophiles. So bankers, academics, politicians and scientists are the most likely to be pedophiles(See scientists like Bill Gates who visited Epstein, how bankers are often tied by corruption pacts via blackmail material, pedophilia)

>>20775423
People who obsess over the Catholic church can't even address how most other institutions have sky high molestation rates. Like you said, Epstein was literally gifting 12 year old french girls to politicians for their birthdays. If you notice, power obsessed individuals seem to be most prone to molest, though weak types like teachers molesting kids. I think people who focus on religion when talking about molestation simply have a bias against religious people.

>>20775515
Where's the per capita version of this graph?

>>20775423
>>20775515
not a bias, just that nobody respects a braindead slave and will at most tolerate one out of politness

>>20775859

>>20775515
>I think people who focus on religion when talking about molestation simply have a bias against religious people.
The point you want to put-out-of-mind is that the clergy are supposed to be above those things, as being the people most inculcated within - what you claim anyway - is the "purest law of god," i.e. a person has gone to the church, studied the church very deeply and despite this have not had their character improved in any way. Then the reasons why emerge and the apologists say shit like "well, no man is good," "original sin," etc., which is garbage and laughable to any human being who has not felt the need to molest a child. And then we find out that they refuse help on these matters at all, rejecting the various sciences which are superior on these matters and pretending instead that demonic possession is why it happens.

But jeez it seems kinda stupidly obvious to some of us 'why' this happens when the religion, when examined, serves as an excuse for evil behavior and non-remedy of evil behavior by being established by the lowest of the low (see: Paul the torturer and Pauls audience in Romans; "thieves, adulterers, abusers of themselves with men, extortioners, such were ye, but then ye washed yourselves"); making the object of the religion "to" do evil deeds in order to "seek forgiveness" by talking to themselves and pretending Jesus is listening and forgiving them.

No other group has such a solid ideological resistance to self-betterment, this is what it really comes down to. And also, it shouldn't have escaped you that if the church was legitimate that its members would be immune to any vice (like any non-rapist), and that the church members cannot hope to instruct anybody in anything (to dissuade those criminal politicians from lusting after babies) if their characters are like this.

It's a flawed foundation.

>>20770617
>literally only 1 post who even tried to answer the question
>the rest is /pol/ and /leftypol/ rambling by people who dont read

thanks for reminding me why i stopped coming to this board

>>20775423
Pedophiles, criminals, homosexual rapists, sociopathic persons, persons who tell lies, etc. are mentally retarded due to influences from their parents upon them in their early youth. This was solved over 100 years ago, anon,but the religious people became nervous to have their religious declared as a delusion and o fought very hard to stop the sciences from advancing in this area.

>>20770598
> One of the big reasons people didn't lay all middle school girls before was the consideration of the parental authority.
It’s really important for you to understand that the biggest reason the extreme majority people do not fuck middle schoolers is that they do not have a brain malformation that makes them attracted to children.

>>20775929
>thanks for reminding me why i stopped coming to this board
because you stated coming to children instead?
ba dum chusshh

>>20775208
>Age of Consent should be 16.
Kind of worth recalling that in Ancient Rome the boys who would qalify for any political office or citizenship rights would spend the ages 14 to 32(?) in military service with prohibitions against fucking and drinking.

i.e. Only when they were grown adults they would start a family.

>>20771572
Exactly. If AOC laws worked at all then they should be higher. Since they’re only enforced in rare cases among the lower classes or to take down political rivals, it doesn’t really matter what the age is set at.

>>20772289
What’s annoying is that if the CIA had actually kept decent records in the 50s-70s and released all of it unredacted with detailed long-term follow-ups, it would be immediately clear at what age drugging and raping people completely destroys their personality forever instead of just severely traumatizing them.
Then set AOC at double that.

>>20775963
>32
When I was researching ages of various things for something I’m writing that starts in the 1600s I was surprised by how much of a fake meme teen/child marriage was. 20-30 has pretty much always been normal outside of isolated (as in in the country, not as in unique or rare) religious communities.

>>20776026
It's not a bad thought experiment actually; to actually raise the age of consent, or some prohibition like that, to a very high age bar; 32 for example, and then just marvel at how a society would be transformed by that; there would be no problems of child neglect or children raised by stupid parents or any problems stemming therefrom.. and the parents instead would be older and wiser and far better able to actually raise their children.

In effect they would gain a whole sixteen years of intellectual development and relations between the genders wouldn't devolve as early into jealousy and sex-based domination (i.e. breaking down the other person for sex, then dealing with a society which is suspicious of each other).

If not for society (and forcing people not have babies would be impossible anyway), then for the self.

>>20776064
32 sounds too high. Even though I'm something of a pedo myself and agree age of consent should be higher perhaps 21 would be a better compromise.

>>20776094
nah age 21 is still a baby in the brain

>>20776176
23 is my final offer, take it or leave it.

>>20776210
You've overlooked a fundamental point,

Obviously people 'will' have babies prior to the age of 32, but with the prohibition in place the state would gain all of those babies to be trained in special facilities to provide an unprecedented trained-from-birth military force with nobody to say "no don't surgically and biochemically change little jim into a 9 foot tall musclebound super human"

>>20776306
Your sci-fi dystopia got to train those super soldiers fast because no government like that would last otherwise.

>>20776458
we're doing it for little jim.

>>20770193
pashtuns are white

>>20770598
Based. I’ve heard that was main focus of first wave feminism. It’s almost as if you should actually follow traditions

>>20774583
Why does Google say this is "for adult"?

>>20770179
fpbp

>>20772810
>proper sex-ed
just make condoms affordable

>>20771046
Kys pedo

>>20774037
Citation needed

>>20772761
Wow me too anon. I felt less alone for a bit after having read it.

>>20770049
because they were based

>>20770049
Isn't pedocore /tv/?