/lit/ - Literature

You are going to make it.

>>20767292
I know. I've been writing all weekend, old sport. Even had some pretty big plot revelations this revisions where I slightly altered the characters that appeared in the scene and generated a far more interesting dynamic that paralleled a nice historical reference I hadn't realized was there.

I've inserted a chapter that is an excerpt from a textbook written by one of the characters
I'm having a hard time making it readable, relevant, but also still recognizably academic

Extremely based OP image.
Day jobbery sucks.

You guys ever plan on making more than 20 sales or?…

>>20767357
I was meaning to be more abstract but unfortunately I have to go to work tomorrow. At least I enjoy my day job most of the time.

If your book doesn’t sell at least a thousand copies it’s wasted time and effort, even for the first book.
You have goals for your book right anon?

>>20767363
Do you have any actual advice, or just arrogant demotivational seething?

News flash guys, there’s 1,000 but oks uploaded to amazon every day. You need an edge over these other 999 books to stick out.

>>20767444
Idiot Boswell. Don’t respond to the meerkat.

>>20767363
I don't know if this counts, but my record is 20 free downloads on kindle in one day.

>>20767457
Who is boswell? I’m not up on my latest schizo posting?

What are your thoughts on technical writing? My parents were talking about a friend they had that worked from home and made a pretty decent amount of money doing technical writing. Worthwhile career?

>>20767476
Pepe spamming Reddit tourist who writes like a grade 7 student. Hates Gardner for some reason.

>>20767506
Got a 4/5 review. One of the highest of /lit/ authors

>>20767506
I can see why you’d confuse me for him minus the pepes and reddit.
Do dislike Gardner’s spam

So I have 3 books I'm working on.
My idea is to upload the first chapter of each to Royal Road, then point readers to my Patreon where a $1+ donation means they get to vote on which story I update next.

Then I update 1 chapter a week based on what's been voted for.

What are the chances of this working out to where I can make $2000 a month?

>>20767363
If I wanted to, I would be writing gay YA.

>>20767531
Zero percent chance. You need a full book to be taken seriously. Short or long it doesn’t matter.

So I'm gonna have to start making book covers (4 particularly) for a fantasy novel but I have zero artistic ability. What should I do?

>>20767454
>1000 books uploaded to Amazon a day
That's actually extremely alarming. No wonder agents are so strict lately with what they'll even consider taking a look at. There's no way that more than one or two of those 1000 books are even decently readable

>>20767604
Crude crayon drawings that looks like a child drew it.

>>20767454
Yeah but like 999 of those are erotica or cook books.

>>20767531
Not likely. The only people on the site who actually get a significant amount of Patreon support are those who have a book that hits it really big first. If you don't have a story that can make it into the top 50 in a month, it's not even worth bothering if your aim is monetary gain

>>20767604
Can't you just use one of those drawing AIs to make halfway decent cover art now?

>my beta readers said my writing feels like a text book.
Should I just write non-fiction instead?

>>20767625
Aren't those some sort of intellectual property nightmare or something?

>>20767628
Depends what you're writing.

>>20767649
I'm writing science fiction.

>>20767492
Not an option for midwits.
You have to actually know things.
You will also be held to spelling/grammar/punctuation standards.

>>20767643
NightCafe's license says the image is yours to do with as you like, including commercial purposes.

>>20767454
And unless you can articulate what that edge consists of, your contribution here is literally worthless.

>>20767667
Are you? Is there a story? Or is it a "lore dump" of technical info?
Based on what you've said so far...you may have fallen into the "worldbuilding trap".

>>20767628
write a fictional textbook

>>20767676
Playing around with it, hard to get the right kinda image and dunno how much I'd have to pay into it to do so.

>>20767622
>>20767581
Thanks for the advice.

Next question, how hard is it to get into the top 50 if you are not doing lit rpg stuff? That seems to be what is most popular there.

>>20767724
Pay into what? NightCafe?
They give you 5 free credits per day, and they accumulate.
Just log in once per day and claim your free credits.
Before long, you'll have enough to draw whatever you want.

>>20767492
seems like something an english major would do

>>20767734
Yeah I'll try it out. I'm tryna see if there's a way to specify what NOT to include as even if I don't tell it to include buildings in something it always seems to put them in.

>>20767531
there have been authors who self published and their books were instant hits and they made a lot of money out of the gate
so i guess it depends on your books

>>20767739
More like a STEM major with an English-related minor.

>>20767730
>how hard is it to get into the top 50
Assuming you're decent at writing and can edit properly yourself to remove all errors, it entirely comes down to the strength of your premise. There are plenty of non-litrpg novels that make it into the top 50, and even the top 10. So long as you're writing a genre that's popular on the site, and your story has a unique premise/twist, you should be able to do pretty well. One big thing you can do to boost your chances is being very active in the community. You can get a lot of people to start reading your novel just by being someone they see around the site/forums a lot. Otherwise you're mostly relying on ranking/briefly being in the recent update list to get new readers

>>20767604
check out fiverr
https://www.fiverr.com/categories/graphics-design/book-design/cover

>>20767492
I write technical reports for my job projects. If you can get into the right industry your primary job is actually editing to customer format standards. A majority of the work is done by engineers or workers and you just clean it up and format it. The downside usually is you're the only technical writer, so you work on every project. You're always writing and editing, so when you get home, it's the last thing you want to do.

>>20767730
No one reads litrpg stuff.
You won’t even hit top 100,000 with that.

>>20767768
Yeah I may get a painter, or a local one there's a few good ones around my area. Just depends what they'll run me. The cover itself I can put together in a graphic arts editor that's no big deal, but the artwork is the kicker.

>>20767751
*cough* WITH ADVERTISING *cough* FAT PREEXISTING AUDIENCE *cough*

>>20767793
>with advertising
Well, yeah...that's also part of what a publisher does to sell your book. You just expect people to magically find your book in a sea of millions of self-published novels?

>>20767806
Your publisher does not advertise your book. Not unless youre JK Rowling.

>>20767793
Adverts are actually not that expensive. You can run your book on one of the Time's Square billboards for like $300 and it'll be up there for 15 runs of a minute or something like that, which is crazy high exposure for that kinda price.

Wonder what hiroshimoot is charging for /lit/ ads these days. You could also get fairly popular youtubers to plug your book pretty cheap.

>>20767783
The rising star list seems to have a lot of lit rpg, at least.
https://www.royalroad.com/fictions/rising-stars

>>20767760
Thanks for the tips.
I consider myself I pretty good writer, and I've gathered a reasonable sized audience in the past with works which I did not try to profit off of. This was years ago, though, I may have a hand full that still have their eyes on me and may read my new stuff, but I pretty much need to start over from scratch.

My editing is good, I don't make any amateur mistakes and put a lot of thought into word economy. I go over my work dozens of times before sharing.

I've been debating if I want to go the Royal Road route posting weekly chapters then make money through patreon, or go with self-publishing through Amazon.

If I go with Royal Road I'll just start posting one of my shorter works chapter by chapter to test the waters. See if I can start to gain an audience.

I'm thinking if I go that route, it will be best to wait until I have a large backlog of chapters I can update, to be sure I don't end up having to take a hiatus.

>>20767823
They definitely do, anon. The novels they don't advertise much, if at all, are genuinely the ones they're just using to pad their catalogue (which is when the author usually has to do their own advertising). The novels they think will actually sell well get advertisement.

>>20767862
Yeah, 1 or 2 books in that genre will have 95% of the sales. That’s abnormal for good genres and normal for all obscure genres. Check how many sales on #5.

>>20767730
The reason lit rpg is so popular there is just because it has the chapter by chapter publishing format so it lends itself to that.

>>20767874
So you are saying a niche genre like litrpg will have a few works that get a lot of attention, but the genre as a whole is not selling very well?
Whereas your normal fantasy works will have plenty that are doing well?

>>20767836
This. If you have an actual dayjob then you can easily scrape some off the top from that to throw to some youtubers or podcasters to plug your book. You can probably do a better job promoting your book than corporate dinosaur publishers who haven't caught up with the internet and online audiences. You can even advertise it for free just by promoting it on reddit communities.

>>20767892
Basically except I would not describe even the top of lit rpg as high. Not even close, maybe one in a decade that’s it, for a brief period of time.

>>20767751
Most of these are with decent advertising and a pretty big existing audience. Also most of the self published best sellers are YA shit, romance, etc like Colleen Hoover.

Hello /wg/

Can someone help me with this scene? Romance is not my forte.

She was acutely aware of his gaze fixated onto her trembling lips. Her palpating heart reminded her of that overwhelming desire she hid away, blushing her cheeks to rose. She didn’t want to wait but his arms curled around her waist so gently pulling her forward. He grazed her bare skin with a desperate touch, telling her that anything she desired of him was hers but the wait was unbearable. Her lips rushed him, meeting him with a fury that matched his own desire. She stole glances of his hungry face begging her for more and indulged him by parting her lips wider and wider. Their tongues soon met and mingled in one another’s hot breath.

Thanks.

I'm going to post the dream I had last night about how I got cockblocked by my mother, so you Freudians can analyze it.

Chapter 1: The unorthodox leg workout

I was in the gym, working out my legs. The machine I was using to exercise was, thinking back, not intended to be used as I was in fact using it. It was a rack intended to do leg extensions and curls, but I had climb over it an was doing a movement like running. Now, nevermind the fact, I was working out my legs, so let us move on with the story.

It seems to me, after a while, that everyone gets up and starts to leave. I am bewildered, surprised, and not the least euphoric about the fact the gym is now closing, and I, did not now about it. I naturally decide to pick up my things and leave, hopefully to avoid the awkward situation of having the owner asking me 'Please now, leave, we are closing now the gym'. And so, I go to pick up my things.
Chapter 2: The happy Chinaman

I am now at the back of the gym, picking up my bag and stuff, exactly what I remember now. While leaving, a man of clear asian descent, his skin of a sick yellow colour, as if he had liver failure, smiles and points at me, like if he knows me. Think me not racist because of this, furthermore, the actual asian fetish of which I am under a spell in real life would hardly makes me think bad of asians. Upon encountering this man I think 'Oh, this person knows me, and I probably know him, better say hi to him, better be polite, let us do so then'. I extend my hand to him, and we shake hands, but alas, he asks me 'Why do you shake my hand',and asks me too, who am I, all of this he does so in English (mind you, we speak Spanish were I live). I answer him something on the lines of I thought we were acquaintances, this I say with my poor English pronunciation (I can only barely speak it, you should kno(. So we weren't. Fine. Let us leave this place.
Chapter 3: The unwelcomed matchmaker

I am on my way out, but alas, I am stopped. By a woman. This woman I do not know, and she doesn't knows me, she that acknowledges immediately, but tells also that 'Alice' is waiting for me outside, she was just passing by and saw me in the gym from the front door, and I should meet and greet her. She tells me then I need to check my phone, because Alice sent me a message through Whatsapp. "Who is this Alice?" I ask, I know no Alice. I pull out my phone and open Whatsapp, I think that if I see her profile picture, I may identify her, realize who she is. I open the app and see the new message, I open then her profile picture: is a fucking anime character, oh damn.

>>20768086
(cont).

I still don't know who this 'Alice', and before I can read her message, her friend, the unwelcomed matchmaker steals it from me and proceeds to answer it. I believe she as going to write something romantic, of sorts, and boy, I do have to fight with her get it back, but it is a playful fight, and I am embarassed of what she might write to Alice.So I get my phone back, and leave the gym. I do realize when I'm leaving, that everyone is moving to a different room to play soccer. So the gym was not closing, huh. Well, I leave anyway.

Chatpter 4: Alice

I am outside. The crimson sky is barely covered by clouds, but these clouds are dark in colour, announcing an incoming storm. I set myself on my way home, and I decide to go back home running, because like we all know, it's the only reasonable way to return home after leg day. So, running I am.

While I run slowly towards my home, a woman, apparently much faster than I am (I've always been rather slow, thank you) catches up to me and runs by my side. I recognize her instantly, she's Laura! My middle-school classmate! I stop and give each other a big hug, I can tell she smells fantastic (about this I am certainly euphoric) and I feel inclined to kiss her neck, but I don't, that would not be appropriate.

How come she is this 'Alice'? I ask her, but she doesn't understands me.

"Your friend told me a woman called Alice was waiting for me outside"

"She told you my name is Alice?" she asks, and does a facepalm, laughing.

It was just a prank by her friend, apparently. Oh well, nevermind the fact, I happy to see her. And so we walk, talking about our lives, and everything is happy, everything is fine.
Chapter 5: The naked bodybuilders and the fantasy bride

We reach a place where some people are having a barbeue. Laura tells me she needs a minute, there's something she needs to pick up. She leaves, and I stay alone among a multitudes (I never feel comfortable in multitudes). There's people drinking alcohol, there's people eating meat, and lots of noise. I here notice a couple of half-naked men eating, their prominent muscules makes me think they are body builders. Why are they eating without a shirt? I don't know.

Then everyone moves and I see Laura far away. She standing now with a dar, beautiful dress, red lipstick, and as tied her hair. The way the multitude moves, and the place Laura is standing, is much alike to what happens in a wedding, when the bride enters the chapel. Another aid to this image: she's holdng a bouquet. Some man in the multitude whispers something to me, I cannot remember what he said, but I remember my answer: "It's complicated". I also remember what another woman added "Men, how could anyone understand them?!"

>>20768092
(cont.)

Laura reaches me, takes out a big flower from the bouquet, and gives it to me. It happens that she was on her way to a birthday party, when she casually saw me in the gym on her way there. The boquet is for the celebrant, naturally, as it is the present she is now carrying. Still, the fact she gave me a flower was cute, I think. Then we go on walking and chatting.

Chapter 6: Cockblocked by my mother

At some point, my mother appears. This happens close to my house, I'd say about ten blocks away. The three of us walk now through the dark streets of the neighborhood, the place where the poorest people around live. Since she appeared she started talking and monopolizing the conversation. She from there on talked on stop, mostly about her job, or her brother's. From there she went on on a long diatribe about the importance of having a good job. All the meanwhile, Laura and I remained silent, and I can tell she is visibly uncomfortable.

Now we are only a few blocks from my house. I try to regain the natural flow of the conversation, to make it natural. I tell Laura about our old school, and some thing that have changed, things I read on the internet. Her answers are unnatural, she either says only 'Yes', or smiles and assents. It is clear to me that she cannot speak normally with my mother present. I try to speak about more things, but what I do is useless, we cannot talk normally while she is present.

The End.

I wake up. It's night time, and I have slept 5.30 hours. I took notes of this dream, and took me about an hours to go back to sleep. When I fell asleep again, I slept for 4 more hours.

>>20767506
shut the fuck up gardner

My plot makes so much sense now. I see everything I was trying to do.

>>20767604
tell me what you want

>>20767454
>>20767457
Interesting...the meerkat stops just as Gardner begins seething.
Has Gardner been the meerkat all along, too?
I mean, it would make a twisted sort of sense...

What's a good resource for writing fight scenes?

>>20768247
Fight scenes are very easy to write. Just don't describe too much and only write fight scenes you think would be interesting portray.

>>20768247
Here
https://audenjohnson.com/writing-fight-scenes-resources
https://www.wikihow.com/Write-Fight-Scenes
https://whenyouwrite.com/how-to-write-a-good-fight-scene/
https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasywriters/comments/1o6050/writing_a_fight_scene_and_need_some_tips/

>>20768131
Well I'm gonna need four covers as I'm gonna be publishing to KDP breaking the book into three parts to sell $9.99 each then also have the full book as a $20 option because of how Amazon manages its publishing prices and cuts. Volume 1 I'm a bit unsure on but I thin should have a father and son in a wagon through a large rustic valley. Volume II maybe a view of the ground below through the clouds like one would see when flying. Volume III a scenic depiction of an enormous fantasy city, a crown, not sure. I still need to decide on what imagery might best sum up each part. For the complete text version though I'd lie an artistic rendering of the main characters I think as that's the center of the story.

>>20768247
Follow anime rules unironically. Focus in, slow down key moments for impact, etc.

>>20767506
Still seething your Reddit account was suspended, eh?
https://reddit.com/comments/j7poea

I got 12 hours of editing done today, I've had enough. Still on pace to finish this draft next month and then start what I think will be my last time consuming revision.

>>20768375
>do edits
>take me hours
>my friend looks it over
>completely trashes my edits

I think I'm just going to hire a professional editor.

>>20768384
I'm going to do that but I want to make sure I do most of the heavy lifting myself. I gotta improve. Mostly analyzing the development aspects of the story which I don't want advice on.

>>20768269
Ahahaha... Is that why I dropped and procrastinated on a project because I couldn't figure out the fight scenes?

I'm trying to come up with a bunch of characters all at once and I'm coming up with nothing. How do I improve my character generating skills?

>>20768527
By not asking questions about a skill you supposedly have

>>20768527
At their core, a character has a set of values.
Those values lead to the expression of one or more priorities.
So start with the basic values of your characters, and the different ways they embody those values through their priorities.
The clashes between the priorities of your characters is what leads to drama and tension.

>>20768545
What? I'm pretty sure I admitted I'm trying to improve from not having a skill to having it.

>>20768549
What about fodder characters who exist to die?

>>20768527
I don't get it, what are you coming up with them for?

Lol, some of you guys just don’t even have an idea of where to look for resources. I put them in the OP but they get deleted and then some 87 IQ mul*tto puts anime writing and lit rpg writing in its place.
These writers won’t go anywhere because they’re writing in dead genres.
You’re being poisoned and you don’t even know it.

So I had a breakthrough. The past few years I've wasted via distractions and procrastinating. I finally bought this fucking app yesterday and you know what? I was actually able to sit down and write shit. If you can't focus or sit still like me, I highly recommend it. It's only like $20

https://getcoldturkey.com/micromanager/

Don't read these dumb blogs / self help books trying to help you overcome this problem, and don't get a Freewrite or Alphasmart Neo like a babbling retard. The problem is the internet -- but a computer is the best place to write a story. So just get the app and just sit at your word processor all day, eventually you'll write something. Don't get a fucking typewriter either, they suck and you'll just have to transcribe the whole thing to text anyways. Same with writing longhand -- probably the dumbest way to write a novel.

Also DON'T use website blockers. They suck ass and you're just going to get back into surfing

>>20768582
So post them here, and maybe some anon will add them to the general.
Or you could just seethe uselessly.

>>20768573
Are you saying fodder characters won't have values or priorities?

Well, today I did it. I started liking other author's pages on Facebook in a desperate attempt to begin the social media game. I noticed every author in the litRPG genre also has a Discord link. One guy I saw, Michael Chatfield, has an insane amount of books out and he's only been up on Amazon for what looks like 2ish years. That is mind boggling to me.

If we all had author pages and just started linking between each other across many different groups and pages, I think all of us would see so much community engagement from other people. It's antithetical to anonymous culture, but the more I think about it, the more hype I become.

>>20768595
My main barrier to writing isn't distractions or procrastination.
It's exhaustion.
Sometimes even a week-long vacation isn't enough to recover from my soul-draining career.

>>20768613
Lol no point keeps getting deleted. GL guys I was maybe one of two anons who actually has a book out that is making money

>>20768629
Either post the links here, or accept being a failed crab.

>>20768629
I want to see

Sci-fi short story guy again to shit up the thread with dumb questions again.
So I finally have an idea of how to move a story forward, which is to fill space with exposition. However, the way I have this set up, where it's a first person narration relating a story with person B to person A, it'd feel awkward to just start dropping exposition for something person A would already know, in the context of the story.

>>20768692
"As you know..."

>>20768624
Yeah...that's known as "follow for follow". It's not an original idea.

>>20768692
Keep in mind that expositon is usually just worldbuilding in disguise.
In other words, you've failed to advance your story with the technique of storytelling, and have resorted to a lore dump.
Also remember that there are many valid ways to tell a particular story.
Perhaps you should retract the parts of your story surrounding the exposition, and find a way to achieve your story in a different way that allows the exposition to be part of the story.

>>20768527
Think of different backstories.

>>20768624
Lol I'd go out of my way to shit these threads with /pol/bait and then call all of you faggots racist chud incels on Twitter. Nice try though little faggot.

>>20768247
You know what? This >>20768287 actually isn't a bad idea. Watch like an Ippo fight and you'll have a good idea of what to focus on.

>>20768745
I literally cannot think of a better way to occupy the space with these characters, since the logical thing to make the characters' train trip interesting, a fight, is already slated for the end of the story where it ends in a gigantic brawl.

>>20768694
Or the classic from bad heist stories..."OK, can we go over the plan one more time?" LOL

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EvEBLhm43ZERYAHkPW-1wTI7BIC2ovhEQIGJNzYl1Bw/edit

Would appreciate feedback on the dialogue please. I love you

I miss flip phones.
It always gave a nice transition to have a character flip their phone open.
There is no way to phrase someone pulling out a smart phone that has the same impact.

What's the point of cultivating writing skill when in 5, 10 years AI will be able to produce writing that mogs the average writer today?

>>20768759
Then it may remain a weak point in your story.
Perhaps it won't get fixed without a lot of practice, i.e. you may have to wait to do better in your next attempt.

>>20768773
Someone will have to teach the A.I. how to write.
The point is to stay ahead of the automation curve, by providing higher-level forms of value, the parts of the job that can't be automated.
Otherwise, yeah...tent city, here you come.

What tools do you guys use for outlining, planning, actual writing, etc.? Scrivener seems to have some nice aspects from the trial version but I don't know if I want an entire project locked into a single program and besides, it costs more than I'd really like to spend (yes I'm aware I can pirate it and yes I'm aware there are free software versions of it, I've tried them, they're substantially less usable).

>>20768773
Why haven't you already used an AI to augment your writing and amass wealth?

>>20768582
I’ve always wondered why we tolerate anime writing and litrpg shit anyways. Who the fuck reads this shit?

Ran across this today while researching something else...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_dreadful
A "penny dreadful" was a book that cost a penny; they were in serialized form.
They predated "pulp fiction", but were in the same vein, i.e. cheap fun for youthful readers.
The article literally characterizes them as the video games of their time.
And after describing one series, about a highway robber, that streched for 247 serialized volumes...I couldn't help but think of RoyalRoad.
The more things change...

>>20768783
But there's only so much attention. AI will be able to write hundreds of thousands of words in minutes, and even if it's a writing is average at best, it will have hogged everyone's attention. You won't be able to sell much at all and making a living from it will be even harder than it is today.
>>20768788
It's not quite there yet, though it's infinitely better than it was even 5 years ago. Plus I don't own the AI.

>>20768776
Fuck man typing this out gave me I think a great idea; use a brief window to dump a little exposition about the setting, then foreshadow the brawl at the end by one of the characters getting into a brawl on the train, but it's completely onesided and more an aggressive dance than an actual fight. Maybe it'd work, establish the physical competence of one of them.

>>20768788
Obviously, A.I. writing isn't up to that level of sophistication yet.
>>20768789
That's the whole point...anime and LitRPG are very popular genres.
That's why anyone cares.

>>20768773
The average writer is pretty terrible compared to a good writer, so I don't really see the problem with that. By the time AI will get to the point that they can write something comparable to Ulysses/Moby-Dick, you and I will be long dead

>>20768792
See? There are always solutions!
But you may have to rework your existing prose!
Go forth and make us proud, anon!

>>20768787
I use an outline editor called TreeLine.
It lets me store my notes as a hierarchical, annotated outline.
It's also free and open-source.
The file format is JSON, so it's quasi-human-readable.
So far, it's done everything I need it to.

>>20768790
It really was the RoyalRoad/Wattpad of it's time. You had low quality novels being pumped out to appease a mostly female audience who didn't have much to do aside from sitting at home. Just exchange gothic horror for litrpg/isekai

>>20768791
Or perhaps the A.I. will read your writing, decide it could learn from it, buy the rights to it from you, and from then on, any time it incorporates what you taught it, you get paid a fraction of the worth of the work generated from it, somewhat like the television "residuals" system.
What with your lack of imagination, anon?
I thought you were a writer.

>>20768789
I do.

>>20768789
I'm assuming that at least as far as litrpg goes it's by and for people whose brains have been irreparably damaged by video games and/or tabletop RPGs to the point that they can't imagine characters interacting with a fictional reality in a way that doesn't involve rules, game mechanics, health bars and menus, etc.

>>20768808
Thanks, I'll check it out. I only really need something for notes and outlining along with a word processor.

>>20768822
You clearly don't know much about AI.

>>20768795
>anime and LitRPG are very pop-
No they’re not lmao! Where did you come up with that kooky shit?

>>20768803
Luckily I don't get to work on the prose unless I already have a good idea of how I want everything to go. Thank you anon, this is a big help.

>>20767283
open submissions for miniMAG

art, poems, stories, whatever

minimagsubmissions@gmail.com

minimag.space for full issue

>>20767508
there are 572 pages before this?

>>20768933
forgot to attach image

>>20768773
NovelAI is a neat toy doing this now. It's janky at first until you learn how to configure the parameters and do some training steps but it gets better quick.

I too got disheartened when I saw how cool it was, because I was worried, well if an AI can do it, what good am I?

Here's the thing, no two pieces of writing are the same. If you write an adventure, and I write an adventure, and the AI writes ten adventures, they're all different. Some readers might like yours the most, and some might like mine the most, and then some might like one of the AI generated ones the most, but they're all different. No AI will ever replace "you".

>>20768933
>there are 572 pages before this?
yes

>>20768937
>>20767604
i feel you on this

>>20768945
rest of story in Issue04

minimag.space

>>20768951
>>20768942
brief synopsis?

>>20768937
looks like a bathtub.
Fuck out of here with your bathtub peotry.

>>20768954
minimag.space

minimagsubmissions@gmail.com

jesus christ, just submit something

>>20768062
too many details per sentence

our minds are pretty good at filling in the blank space in romantic settings

but you're not as bad at this romance stuff as you think

>>20768958
nice! was wondering if anyone would think it looks like a bathtub without reading the story

thank you anon

>Villain tries to seduce the protagonist in a bid to merge with him because he's terrified of dying after a traumatic death

>>20768839
There's an absolute ocean of that shit on every web fiction hosting site, obviously most of it goes unread due to the sheer volume but surely there's a demand for it to drive that supply.

>>20769010
Bruh, what the fuck is a web hosting fiction site?
Just get an author website and sel on amazon nigga. Fr you wasting time on this shit and narrowing your audience wtf.

>>20769030
sell on amazon? are you joking? people can buy my novel, have two weeks to read it, then return it and I'm, the author, the one who is charged a transaction fee.
I'm staying the hell away from KDP until they fix their return policy.

>>20769065
Use nook

>Herman Melville opens Moby Dick with multiple pages of extracts in order to give his narrative an epic grandeur.

How does this tactic work?

If I were to let's say write an epic fantasy narrative and begin it with a list of extracts pertaining to the fantastical, from its earliest known form from ancient mythology down to Tolkien, would it help accentuate said narrative's epic qualities? Assume that the actual story of said hypothetical epic fantasy narrative is appropriately epic enough.

Would this, like how the extracts from Moby Dick do, charge this hypothetical fantasy narrative with epic grandeur or make it awkward and unenjoyable to read?

>>20768954
>brief synopsis?
Man has brain condition and chips, somehow he makes wormholes, assigned apprentice, him and his female casual partner and apprentice go to all the human colonies you can't reach with a ship. They deliver technology and check out the local scene.

Bros I'm 115k words in and I'm still doubting myself
This isn't fair I was supposed to have an idea of what I'm doing by now

>>20769406
Let future generations worry about it

>>20767283
/tg/ has more discussion of writing than here...

My plan was to demoralise you faggots from writing so I could have an edge on the self published Amazon platform, but you faggots write such drivel (if you ever write to begin with), that you do my job for me.

I know this is covered in op, but i just want some separate/more concise/different info on this.
Let's say you had some idea's for a story (who doesn't?).
How can you get/pay for another "pro" writer to help you write it or add to it, add "fluff/filler" or check for errors and other stuff. (I also need to know how to get lawyer to write contract between you and the other "pro" writer?)
And how do you get a book publisher to print like 100,000/million "test" copies of the book (i assume have to make certain amount of test copies to see how they sell before they make like a billion?)
inb4
>google
I'm asking for specific sources, links, and stuff.
>what's the idea
Who said i had one, or would share/give it away? I'm just asking if i did.
How true do you think the story of j.k. rowling writing a paragraph on a napkin and getting a deal for like 100 million? (now a billion) copies of book 1 to be made, was?
Keep in mind, it was a different era of the world 25 years ago.

Where do you even start? And how do you develop ideas? I have a few vague ideas, but I have no idea what to do with them, or where to go. So it's more like I have concepts more than anything.

>>20769672
I discovered my love for writing by falling in love with a 2 view vtuber. She doesn't use social media and primarily communicates with her "community" via 4chan. In an attempt to differentiate myself from the other faggots I would post love poems and some sex scenes. One time she read my post on stream and admitted that my words moved her to tears. At this point there is absolutely nothing that can break my spirit, I'm a profoundly broken man.

>>20768763
Dialogue is ok, flowed pretty naturally. Chapter felt a bit short and uneventful except for the cliffhanger though.
What's the story about? Getting a kind of near future London with magic vibe.

Day 50 editing
Chapter 66 routed
>Just transitioned from word to libre
T-this is what freedom feels like?

>>20768773
Just because an AI can shit out text on the screen doesn't mean its going to be any good. To write a good story with the AI, you need to be a good writer as well. The AI doesn't know how to weave long term arcs, how to make the book thematic, ect... Yes, it might help with pointless prose: your character needs to enter a building and you don't know how to write it so you let the AI generate the look of the building. But still, wouldn't a good writer use even the description of the building to the use of the story? As some sort of allegory or whatever.
Stories are not just words, they are the whole together, and currently the AI can only give you words. Now, if you are extremely good at knowing what the AI has given is good or bad, or use it as mainly just a quick draft, i see uses for the AI, but that it'll write a whole fantasy novel and it being automatically a good book? Definitively not.
>T. NovelAI user

>>20768773
AI writing lacks soul

>>20769906
yes that is exactly it. Sorry chapter is still WIP i just needed confirmation whether the direction im taking the dialogue was working. First time writing and all so needed an objective eye. Thanks !

>>20769065
>Oh no! A super negligle percentage of jews will return a book on the world’s largest book selling platform! I better only sell books on little obscure sites with no way to find me!
KYS

>>20767531
Decent chances as long as all of those books are furry erotica

>>20769971
no it doesnt

You guys will buy my book, right?

>>20770353
only if you have a nice cover

>>20769168
>If I were to let's say write an epic fantasy narrative and begin it with a list of extracts pertaining to the fantastical, from its earliest known form from ancient mythology down to Tolkien, would it help accentuate said narrative's epic qualities?
probably not because you are not as talented as Melville. but keep in mind that 'epic grandeur' is not the sole reason for the Extracts section. it is mainly there to drive home the themes of the book from the very first pages, to establish the whale as a symbol that has been with man throughout the entirety of human history, and all the various interpretations and meanings that people have pegged on it. the extracts section wouldn't really work if you didn't have the context of the entire book backing it up.

>>20770355
I don't sell enough books for a great cover. Art is fucking expensive man. I'm happy enough with it though.

>>20770386
No you fucking unfixable retard, you don’t sell enough BECAUSE you don’t have a great cover.

I don’t understand how you guys can fucking spend 6 hours a day for over 2 years to write one book just to cheap out on a fucking cover. How little is your own time worth to you that you can’t spend $50 on a fucking cover? That’s like 2-3 meals at a restaurant you cheap ass jew.
But your 3,000+ hours of writing isn’t worth shit apparently. Fuck off. Anyone who thinks like this is fucked from the get go and there’s no fixing instincts.

Why do people make writing so much more complicated than it needs to be? Especially on Reddit. Craft this, plotter vs pantser that. Just write omg

>>20769768
Get the book called save the cat writes a novel

srs

>>20770431
Those people don't want to write, they want to engage in a community that shares a love of literature, suffers from delusions of grandeur and wallows in oh woe is me oh my writer's block! style of shit.
Real writers have a compulsion to write. They don't care what parts their writing is composed of. They just have to do it.

>>20768835
>>20770300
Are you going to elaborate on these points, or just make blanket unsupported statements?

Does your writing look like this too?
"I have a goal!"
"No you don't."
"Oh, OK then."
The end.

>>20769732
No response.
Books are dead.
Name one good book in last 20 years?

>>20768839

Ever since Tensura came out people have been churning this stuff out like there’s no tomorrow.

>>20768787

I like Manuskript, it does the job. I also love how they implemented focus writer into it.

>>20770431
complexity fetishism
it's a serious plague you see everywhere, especially in computer science / programming

>>20770431
Because a huge amount of people talking about writing are delusional beginners/retards. They're very prone to romanticizing or mechanizing writing to an absurd degree, or are just chronically dependent on social media and the attention it can give them. They're either teens or regular idiots who can't explore what process makes sense for them personally without shitting up communities with pointless posts.

>>20768969
No problem.

>>20770422
Anon, there's a difference between a "nice cover" and a "great cover"

How much do you think it costs to get a great cover?

i really want to write but i dont want to

>>20770426
They are young and may not have a job or bills yet. I spend money just to save time now, but I think a good deal of our time can be redeemed by working since plenty of people spend time lazing about.

>>20770536
truly the great struggle of man

>>20770535
NTA but 500 usd is as high an investment on coverart anyone should go for something unique. If it's for shovelware Walmart novels then 50 dollars is alright. The cover and title give the best RoI besides the writing itself, because it says a lot about what is in your book. Without a recommendation from a friend, that cover is what people see first.

>>20770536
I want to write but I'm at work and I haven't even read yet.

>>20770561
A couple hundred bucks will get you a "nice cover". A "great cover" will run up to $2000.

>>20770431
I saw a post about a guy saying he wanted to write books that constantly punch readers in the gut with their action and feels. When I mentioned that a breakneck book like that sounded exhausting, he just said that he hadn't written anything yet but he had planned it all out with those infographic things. I couldn't think of anything to say. It just made me realize some people don't care about writing, they care about planning.

>>20770604
anon I don't even think most care about planning. they're just daydreaming books that they think will be the next HP movies or GOT show.

On the subject of AI.
AI sucks.
It is decent for augmenting your own writing, when I find myself not sure what to write next, I'll have AI generate a few sentences and that will help get me moving in a direction. It's like a push on a swing.
It is not good enough to write anything half decent on its own. It struggles to keep characters behavior consistent and goes off the rails quite easily.

I'm not worried about AI replacing writers. At best it can only be a tool that helps writers.

what makes a sentence feel old/dated?

>>20770632
there's a more fundamental difference that will hold AI back. When something weird or unexpected happens in a human-written novel the reader thinks "I wonder what that was about, but I'm sure it will come up later in a satisfying way." When something weird happens in an AI novel they will think "oh, the AI broke and wrote a shitty paragraph."

>>20770604
Dean Koontz wrote a book like that called intensity where everything is scene without sequel. It was all action. It becomes this jittery, exhausting mess without a single stopping point that people enjoyed until it became stressful. It's not considered his best but I guess a good example of what a book feels like if you dont slow down.

>>20770739
Safdie brothers films are like this. Good Time, Uncut Gems.

>>20770644
There are plenty of people that dont give the author the benefit of the doubt but you are hitting on something. Even if a book was written by a perfectly human AI made by a brain that shares our strengths of analyzing different ways, if the reader knew it was AI he would dismiss it as having less value than his fellow man until culturally people see AIs as humans also. That's why some people might pose as the author of an AI, like a man using a female pen name or vice versa, so that he could give credibility to the story while making a fraction of the profit. I think that cultural skepticism could last beyond our lifetimes and people may see through an expose "authors" who arent writing and honestly a company that signed mostly AIs could not survive that kind of press.

>>20770636
>what makes a sentence feel old/dated?
they used to use a lot more commas back in the old days. look at sherlock holmes for example

How good can I get at dialogue and only dialogue in months? 6? 5? 4? 7? a year?

>>20770821
Just steal shit you hear real people say. You know that meme about writers working in cafes? It's so they can eavesdrop on people and steal the way they sound.

>>20770636
> just to cheap out on a fucking cover.

the guys in /k/ think nothing of dropping a $1,000 on a new gun.

Right now I'm too scared to start, officially and actually caring about quality. I keep these charts, sketches of terms, habits and wants, some sentences I feel get the very basic of how they would talk. But too scared to develop that further.
>>20770825
Is that a thing? Could be worth looking into. I did make a character out of some real life conversation after all.

>>20770536
>i really want to write but i dont want to

i struggle to start writing every day.
it's getting easier as time goes by.

write at least a sentence per day. you can do that

>>20770836
>Is that a thing?
Yes.

>>20769732
>how do you get a book publisher to print like 100,000/million "test" copies of the book

you'd have to write one fucking amazing book, anon

>>20770836
You're over thinking it.
Just write.
There is no secret, and if there is any secret it is to just get words down consistently every day. Newbies don't like to hear that for some reason. They seem to think there is some secret method they need to discover first.

>>20770604
> a breakneck book like that sounded exhausting

how i've seen this done in a way i liked is that the first part of the scene resolves the action from the last scene.
everyone is sitting in the coffee shop talking about the explosion.
then a car comes flying through the plate glass window

>>20769768
> Where do you even start?

https://philipp.truebiger.com/three-act-structure/

your first act shows us what a normal day in the life of your hero is
then something careens into his life and causes a big disturbance
then he reacts to that
that leads to the second act
where he has to decide whether to stay in his boring, status quo, world, or go on to the adventure world
etc

>>20770836
The more you practice the better you will get. Apply yourself and you will start to get it. There's a lot of advice out there but ultimately you are building your own skillset and style of how to write. Dont be intimidated going in. Weird example but I remember first playing Demon's Souls years ago and didn't invade for weeks and one day I did my heart was pounding from anxiety. I dont even remember what happened but years down the line I was seasoned, seen most of the tricks and had this sneering competence as I rubbed players noses in the dirt, sometimes surprisingly myself how I could juke players. Guess what I mean to say is you have to start going through the motions and not fear failure before you can get good. Writing is something you can always get better at.

>>20770858
Sounds like either a great action book or the start of a hilarious comedy.

Egregore anon here.

Where is the review review anon? YOU SAID THERE WOULD BE REVIEWS?

>ITS RIGHT THERE
>JUST TAKE IT
>YOU... YOU...

>>20770850
Please don't offer others advice on something you're not capable of.

>>20771209
Realistic sounding dialogue is a meme. You are probably ESL if you are concerned about this. Reading/writing and speaking use completely different parts of our brains.

What kind of answer do you want? He gave you the right answer. You cant learn to do something without doing it. Write. There are no resources beside just reading books.

girl ranks books she's read

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsMwbf5o0WM

since the guys are playing vidya games these days, women are the biggest audience

have you read any of these books? i've read 3, i think. i might give "eons" a try

>>20771280
>YA
shan't

>>20771287
Prove your writing is better than YA.

>>20771288
>conflating merit with subjective taste

>>20770908
No, you have to write like le ebin pomomaximalists
>throw together 1000+ pages of vaguely thematically related vignettes of different unrelated characters in roughly the same location at roughly the same time
>they should mainly be fucking, shitting, and/or doing drugs
>shake it up into a random non-linear timeline
>every chapter is an essayistic digression from the actual plot
>footnote it up the ass because everybody needs to read decades worth of a non-existent director's filmography
>end on a non-sequitur anticlimax that loops back to the beginning chapter
Congratulations, you will now have your rigor mortis dick sucked by generations of academics.

>>20771351
>footnote it up the ass because everybody needs to read decades worth of a non-existent director's filmography
Is it such a bad thing to do?

>>20771351
This shit is exactly why I didn't care for Magnolia.

>>20771448
footnotes in regular novels are just pieces you couldn't commit to
If you want to share further thoughts/tangents, put them into a separate essay.

Is this the right thread for posting a poem and having it be rated? Lit noob

>>20771067
I will try to read that deprecated copy you sent real quick when I get it. I already did reviews for Eggplant, Emily Project, Dose Makes the Poison and the Last Free Man. Honestly want to check out a few more but life's got me so busy.

>>20771657
The one reader in all of /wg/...

I want to write, and I can write 10k words in a single sitting.

It’s just that I can’t seem to start writing when faced with a blank page.

Any tips for getting over this hurdle?

>>20771209
If you think "go sit around in coffee shops and eavesdrop on people like a creepy perv" is better advice than what I gave you need to stfu.

Adding to my thoughts on AI.
When I'm stuck on something it's usually because I have a general sense of where I want to go but it feels like something's missing, or it needs a little extra spice. Sometimes AI provides that and gets me moving in the right direction. What does an even better job at providing that, however, are other human beings. But, getting someone to read your WIP and give descent feedback isn't always available, so in those cases lonely writing fags will probably find AI useful, after becoming familiar with what it can and can not do.

>>20767292
But you guys told me that unless I invent a language I shouldn’t bother writing fantasy.

>>20771896
There are many reasons I hate fantasy and you just touched on one of them.

>>20771917
Not enough people getting degrees in linguistics so they can world build to the most autistic levels possible?

>>20771865
Ask a question and answer it. This is what I sometimes ask
>what just happened before
>where are we and why
>who is there and what do they want
>are they going to fail, what happens next and if that happens where would it go
>does this scene and lines present what I want
If I cant answer a question I back up and ask broader questions, look at another scene that I might need to understand first. If you know your story it will be fine but you might write yourself back to the outline or write out hypothetical scenes to see if you like it.

>>20771896
>you guys
Who are these infamous "you guys" I'm being lumped in with? It's been stated many times here that Tolkien used his love of language to make his fantasy world more rich, not the other way around. What you love and enjoy doing should drive the worlds you make.

>>20771657
Are you only reading books you get sent?

>>20771954
Anyone who isn’t me is you. And you are all pieces of shit.

>2k words gang rape scene
I wrote it overlong to be funny, but it ruined the pacing.

The Irvine Hotel has PBR on sale, three bucks a can. The bar is surrounded by neon VLT machines and thumb-tacked flyers for fish fries and biker rallies. We split a bucket of short cans for eighteen bucks all-in. The toilet looks like it could give me novel sexually transmitted diseases and the only food available is from a popcorn machine that looks like it was last cleaned by a suffragette. We guzzle down the cheapest beers we’ve ever ordered at a bar; they’re also, not incidentally, the best we’ve ever had.

When we’re finishing up our last cans, a woman comes storming into the bar solo. She’s mid-thirties wearing leopard print yoga pants and a hot mess of a top bun.

“Something strong,” she barks at the bartender. “Wait, is that Cliff in the back? Who’s in the office, is it Cliff? Tell Cliff I want to…” She pauses to burp, clear her throat. “Tell Cliff I want to drink with him.”

“Maybe a glass of water first, Kim?” suggests the bartender.

“Give me a fucking break,” she spits back. “My boyfriend is in jail for touching my daughter. Can you believe that? For touching my baby. I need a real drink.” The bartender shakes his head and slides her a glass of something clear. She takes a sip, sloshes the liquid around the rim of the glass, inspects it closely, then throws it in the bartender’s face, splashing his hair down to the collar of his t-shirt, now stained a darker shade of grey.

“The hell’s a matter with you, Kim? Get the fuck out of here.”

“Don’t be a baby,” she slurs. “It’s water.”

“Get out.”

“You know, I still love him. After all he did, I still love the fucking asshole.”

“Get out!”

“Hey, Cliff.” She hops up onto the bar and wiggles her ass against the counter. “Hey, Cliff, want some of this? Don’t fuckin’ lie to me now, Cliff. I’m done with lies.”

Ben stands up to leave, and I chug the last of my beer, grateful to have paid up front.

The bartender walks out from behind the bar and grabs the woman by the wrist; she promptly shakes the man off of her with a whip of her arm.

“If you don’t get the fuck out here, right now, I’m calling the police,” he shouts.

A bell chime rings: the sound of the door as it shuts behind Ben. I follow his lead, throw my bucket on my woozy head, and get back on my bike. The lady stumbles out of the bar, screaming something unintelligible, as we pull away from the premises. She picks a child-sized bicycle off the ground, laying unlocked, and starts riding away before falling flat on her stomach. She gets back up, tosses it into the middle of the road, then shouts something that I cannot hear because we’re already too far away.

It occurs to me that I’ve never rode my bicycle while day drunk before. Or day buzzed, or day confused. Whatever this state is. Time passes faster than usual, and, before long, sobriety wrests control from the throes of immediate feeling and I return to a bleak state of understanding.

>>20771990

for context, this is part of a novel about a cross-Canada bicycle tour I did with a friend a few years ago. This scene takes place in a tavern on the side of the highway in rural Alberta (pic rel). It's a bildungsroman that explores, primarily, masculinity and mental health in our atomized and digitally alienated youth landscape. This dialogue is still very rough.

It's a day by day account of our journey across the country, and it explores my own mental health progression (and regression) along the way. I'm hoping to make it a Gen Z/Millennial spin on Zen and the Art, but less Eastern philosophy and more a commentary on finding ways to adopt a pro-social worldview amid an increasingly desolate world. It's about finding purpose in the continuing, and finding material ways to overcome immaterial struggle. It’s about the only alternative to wallowly helplessly, giving in to despair and allowing alienation and suffering to turn you spiritless. How the physical mirrors the mental - for instance, the winding undulations of the road represent various fluxuations in my state of mind (e.g., by virtue of optical illusion, hills appear far steeper from afar than when you're actually surmounting them; when riding down the highway in heavy fog, the road always appears to be straight - you aren't aware that you're turning until you've already turned and you view your path retrospectively). I'm also playing with the prose style. The novel starts off staccato with short sentences and fragments to represent my anxiety and closed sense of self, gradually becoming more relaxed, protracted, and expressive through stretched and elongated sentences as time passes and I open myself to the world and how I feel and perceive it to both my riding partner and to the reader The ultimate goal of this novel is to help people who need it; to help the reader not hate him or herself, and to help them find reasons to keep going, and maybe even turn around.

>>20771949
Not bad.
>>20771980
Shorten it faggot.

>>20771980
Post it.

>>20771865
writing sprints
a lot of people swear by them
1. set a timer for 3 minutes
2. write whatever you want
3. ignore mistakes
4. count your words and save the count

https://www.writingbeginner.com/writing-sprints-the-ultimate-guide-to-successful-writing-sprints/#:~:text=What%20is%20a%20Writing%20Sprint,maximize%20results%20in%20minimal%20time.

>>20772023
I've tried that.
Doesn't work for me.
Put on an instrumental soundtrack and keep going until I have 1000 words.
Take a break.
Do it again.

>>20771971
Fuck you, buddy. I'm in love with you and you can't stop it.

>>20771067
Where I can read your book EgreAnon?

>>20771961
No I bought the others. I got lucky with Egregore. I dont read everything anons do either. Depends if I want to read it.

>>20772138
Amazon.

>>20772160
Well, might I try to interest you?

20769672
you are writing gay basketball drama, I don't need to do anything but laugh at you.

>>20770426
I hope to commission art from a friend of mine.
they would probably do it for free honestly but that feels wrong to me. as a placeholder I just have an AI generated piece of art.

>>20770448
>Real writers have a compulsion to write.
I have barely played games or watched youtube recently, between writing I am reading.
I actually feel aggravated if I don't write for too long, I used to get that feeling with baking.
Yesterday was around 5000 words.

>>20772189
Oh sure I actually do near future scifi myself. Didnt you also do royal road stuff before? I feel like I heard Krake before or was that just you on the Unreal podcast

>>20771067
I am eagerly waiting for my copy.
I haven't forgotten.

>>20772270
Yes and yes. I am still releasing Undying Emperor or How To Lie Like A Military Bulletin. I also wrote Fertilizer Wars for Writathon (cyborg samurai girls)

The Unreal Faceless Interview will be releasing tomorrow too

>>20770431
>Why do people make writing so much more complicated than it needs to be? Especially on Reddit. Craft this, plotter vs pantser that. Just write omg
Because every trash writer thinks they're just one secret of the craft away from becoming a great writer. They think if they follow all the rules set out by successful writers before them, then they'll be successful too. In reality, none of those great writers before them had a guidelines of autistic rules they were following, they found the rules and tricks that worked for themselves by writing in their own way. Many have been duped by youtube writing instructors or lectures into thinking that there's a system of writing that they just don't understand yet or haven't mastered and once they do it'll all click from there, and if it's not working it's just because they haven't fully adhered to it yet.

So instead of writing they ultimately spend their time in threads like these spouting tired rules of thumb handed down to them by other writers. Many are the Infinite Editfags who think a work is never done because they're convinced their own work is only garbage because they haven't edited it enough yet, and just one more year of editing will make it publisher ready.

Anyone know of a good program that will track keypresses to determine wordcount? I type a lot, but none of it is saved. I want to see how many words I write over the course of a week.

>>20772280
i sent the deprecated copies out today.

One anon already bought it, said he would give it a review.

>>20771865
let your fingers do the writing. it'll start out a bunch of gibberish but within a paragraph or two it starts to make sense.

Looks like my book's going out into the world this week, lads. Feels good.

>>20772305
Didjew go through corporate publishing or self?

>>20772283
Unreal, &amp and the flash fic anthology are honestly really cool. As stupid as this board is I love to see anons actually making stuff and talking about it. Really want to talk to the Lab but I need to actually finish my book, its happening though. I'

>>20772318
I'm self-publishing through Amazon! No idea how long any of it'll take since it's my first book

>>20772330
I'll be in the next unreal anthology and... hmm I guess I need to edit my submission to &amp, just been preoccupied with getting Ship of Fuls out into the world.

One step outside of 4chan, there's actually a fairly big ecosystem of micro-creators that are trying to pump each other up. I've been lining up podcast appearances lately. Nothing jaw dropping yet, but I'm fine taking some time to gather fans of my work.

>>20771999
>It's a day by day account of our journey across the country

It sounds boring anon. You need to have a story, not just a day by day account of something.

Very few writers have such strong writing abilities (or intelligence and sense of humor--think for example of Jack Kerouac, Steinbeck or Theroux) that people are willing to sit around and read simply a day by day account of a road trip (especially in a boring country). No offense intended, but your sample doesn't show you at that level of writing. You ought to think in terms of story.

A few anecdotes is not going to cut it. And your "spiritual" development is simply something that ought to remain in the background.

Just my opinion.

>>20772343
Gonna be doing that here shortly once I get all my materials together. Need 4 covers done and backs, spines, also two maps so, gonna need to wait on the fiverr people to finish it all up. How was the experience through KDP?

>>20771896
God, you just cling to that as a loveable excuse to not write, don't you?
I was the original anon who planted that idea in your head. I didn't say "invent a language". I said be linguistically consistent with your naming. Tolkien did it by inventing a language, but I more meant just borrowing from a single Earthly location or time period.

>>20772356
Be careful. Every time I've tried to use fiverr, they've shit the bed or openly tried to scam me.

>>20772361
Interesting, I'm only going with 5 star people though.

>>20771990

Note that in your sample here, your protagonist does absolutely nothing but drink a can of beer.

Everything else is just him observing an "anecdote" that has nothing to do with him.

That's a bad sign if you are writing a novel.

>>20772367
>BUT WHERE IS THE PLOT?
You write genre fiction, don't you?

>>20771896
Why? Your book is going to be in English regardless.

>>20772349
>You need to have a story
Pleb.

>>20772356
The process was simple, but it was a ball ache to redo the cover and reformat the manuscript. I've been using Mixam Print to get physical copies of my book to see how it looks in person and they let you upload a front cover, a spine, and a back cover separately and it melds them together but Amazon needs them as one big piece. MP also just lets you upload word files so my acknowledgements section was separate from the manuscript so I had to sort that out.

Wasn't too bad all in all.

>>20772373
A novel without a plot is called trash.

>>20772420
Weird how you're calling some of humanity's greatest achievements in literature "trash".

>>20772409
What'd you have to do to reformat the manuscript? Mine's currently formatted for printing with certain pages intentionally blank, I imagine they want that though since they do paperback order eh?

>>20772374
Because you’re a bunch of retakes nerds.
>>20772360
See?

>>20772426
Name a plotless contemporary novel, and I'll buy it and eat it.

Plotless novels have been out of fashion since the early 80s.

>>20772429
Amazon provides a template for your pagecount/book size.

>>20772436
Circe by Madelinne Miller.

If any anons in this thread needs quality cover art at an affordable price point, I'm open for commissions. €10 per cover. Samples of some of my designs attached.

>>20772448
Can you draw a dog?

>>20772452
No, sorry

>>20772429
I just had to add the acknowledgements to the actual manuscript but I couldn't work out how to change the page number so the acknowledgements page was its own section kinda thing. You just have to upload the manuscript to Amazon and it does the rest for you

Any help or tips on how to write short stories?
I am a novice writer, actually this post is probably a bit off topic but, i wish to write and illustrate my own comics, but i don't feel like i am skillful enough to do a proper long length run. Instead, i think i should start with short, one-shot style stories and then build up the length as i get experienced but I'm having issues with keeping the stories short and simple. I already had a few ideas that began as short stories which i am now drafting like a novel because i got more ideas. I don't know how to write something compelling, with a problem, resolution and an end in only half a dozen thousand words. It feels like there isn't enough meat for the story to work.
Since my issue is the writing part, i thought this would be a good place to ask

>>20772448
I need someone dunking a basketball into a basket, but I want it to be kind of distorted with JoJo coloring and if you can make the basket look kind of like an anus.

>>20772493
Read Carver and Hemingway. See how they do it and then go from there.

>>20772493
It's like building a little puzzle of words. Plan every piece and put'em together.

>>20772305
How're you advertising other than posting on 4chan?

>>20772542
Thanks, will do.
>>20772548
True, but it's harder to make a cool puzzle when you work with a small amount of pieces

>>20772444
>Circe by Madelinne Mille

Has a plot.

>>20772367
>>20772349

Fair points. I wouldn't put myself on the level of Steinbeck, obviously, but I do hope that some of the descriptive elements in other sections compensate for some of the more plain and ordinary prose such as that of this scene. I've posted previously chapters on this board before and some said they want to read on solely for the prose quality, so there's some justification for that hope. The plot is there - it's a long, arduous bicycle ride in which we experience many challenges both internal and external which cast doubt on whether we'll be able to finish the journey and, more importantly, in what state we'll finish.

>>20770636
if it sounds that way. if you'd be embarrased saying it, it's old

How do I train myself to write 4000 words a day?

>>20772665
Start by writing 3999 words a day then write one more word every day until 4000 per day.

Anyone else just get really, really blackpilled?
>69k (jej) words into my second novel attempt, after starting first draft a year and a half ago
>all the time in the world to write
>tell myself I'm finally going to finish this shit
>still struggle to break 100 words per day
>concept is stupid
>characters suck
>prose is trash
>dialogue is trash
>worldbuilding is uninspired
I don't even know why I bother. Even if I manage to finish a novel draft for the first time ever, I'll have to do literal years of editing since I'm so fucking slow at everything I do. It just seems like such a steep hill to climb, with no end in sight, and nothing rewarding at the end. And all for a novel I'll be lucky to get one single person to read, perhaps if I pay them to. Traditional publishing? Lol, I'm a white man and unheard of, so forget it. Cope-tier vanity publi- sorry, I mean muh based self pub? Yeah I can't wait to get added as one more piece of birdcage-liner to the stack of dogshit that makes up 99.999% of self pubs. What a giant waste of my time, yet I'm still compelled to do this to myself. Fuck my life.

>>20772783
Not at all. Writing is one thing that comes naturally to me and I could write my whole life and never get all my ideas out of my head.

>>20772783
Finish the book anyways and then work on something else. You need the experience of finishing a project, otherwise you are going to keep stopping like that. The story may be better than you think and even the best authors doubt themselves years in their careers. Even if it's not that good it's okay, most debuts aren't. You're be all right.

>>20772783
>yet I'm still compelled to do this to myself
>to myself
I think you mean
>for yourself
You've got the right attitude anon, just keep writing and you'll make it. Once the first draft is done, do a second, revisionary draft then share with people close to you (friends, relatives), take the criticism and work from there.

I'm going to write a book in a month. I am not focusing on grammar or quality. Just the barebone's plot. I will go back and revise it after the month is over and make it a good story. I'm writing a fantasy story about a boy who dies and is reborn as a vampire.

>>20772361
Fivver was useless to me. Even $200 5* people were scams or produced shit.

>>20772915
This. If you can, go with local artists.

>>20772861
I've finished smaller projects, both about 10k words. The second one took me two whole years though. I'm slow as fuck.

>share with people close to you (friends, relatives), take the criticism and work from there.
Some parts get edgy, and I don't want to be associated with any of it. If I ever do get that far I'll just do a swap with some pinkhair boomer on scribophile.

>>20772976
Second part meant for
>>20772913

>>20772923
exactly, that way you can beat and rob them if they scam you.

>>20772976
>Some parts get edgy, and I don't want to be associated with any of it.
I used to think that way, but something that means so much to you, a piece of work you've spent hours upon hours thinking about and feeling, is part of you. Don't be such a coward. Your art is from and part of you. Strangers, let alone internet strangers, have very little incentive to give you honest or useful feedback. Never mind the fact that they could plagiarize your work. If your family and friends don't like it, they won't think any less of you. And you'll recieve worthwhile criticism. Hell, maybe you'll be more proud of your work when it's ready to be shared. Cross that bridge when you come to it, so to speak.

>>20773012
Well, you wouldn't share porn with your mother.

>>20773018
yes, don't be shadman.

>>20772976
>Some parts get edgy, and I don't want to be associated with any of it.
It's going to take a lot of bravery to pitch some of the projects I'm doing.
>first and current one is religious tragedy, might get nitpicked on the theology at worst
>second (1st draft done) is contemporary but includes some weird abuse and out there social commentary
>third (outlined) could be construed as either pro-jew or anti-semitic
>fourth (outlined) is the idiosyncratic part of the internet try to capture the vitriol of this site's language uncensored, coupled with a tranny schizoposter freaking out in a video game community about anime VR torture because his favorite character is better than the new one
I'm not even going to use a pen name for any of this. There seem to be way more controversial stuff out there so I'm not even gonna sweat it.

>>20773018
Heh, I guess not. But I wouldn't share porn with anyone. If there's sex, rape or any other sensitive subject matter in my stories, as long as it's appropriate to the text and its characters then I'll share it without worry. If I believe such material is in my story without due reason or relevance, I'll cut it or write it in a way better suited to the work. That's more or less an author's job. If you're embarrassed or doubtful about the contents of your novel, write it better. You're not afraid because it's edgy, you're afraid because it's poorly written. And it won't always be if you work on it. Have faith anon.

How does my dialogue read? I think one of my weakest areas but I don't think it's too bad

>>20773088
Often it's what's written around the dialogue that makes it most believable.

>>20772581
You haven't read it. I'm waiting for proof of your purchase.

>>20773327
http://www.bookrags.com/studyguide-circe/#gsc.tab=0

It has a plot.

>>20773333
So you haven't read it?

>>20773337
I dont need to. In what way is it plotless? Why should I trust you that the book is plotless over the publications that reviewed it?

>>20773344
You said
>Name a plotless contemporary novel, and I'll buy it and eat it.
I'm waiting.

>>20773348
You didnt name a plotless contemporary novel.

>>20773352
You don't know that though. I knew you wouldn't follow through.

>>20773356
I'm looking at a plot summary right now. I see character motivation, conflict etc. What do you consider plotless?

>>20773359
For the purposes of this discussion, classics of the past that came to be known as plotless and grew (supposedly) out of fashion include Catcher in the Rye, Notes from Underground, etc. They all have plot summaries if you look online. You can only tell if you actually buy the book like you claimed you would.

>>20773364
Boy you really are a stupid fucking pedantic nigger aren't you.

Plotless. Without a plot.

Trout fishing in America is a plotless American classic.

Catcher in the rye has character development, therefore a plot. Notes from Underground has the same.

>>20772436
Anything by Jonathan Franzen.

>>20773373
Did you just jump in on the conversation or something? This started because I was defending bikeanon's novel as being fine with as little plot as they want. Bikeanon's novel technically has a plot - the bike ride - but it's not about that. It's not about plot literally not existing.

>>20772448
I think I'd rather use NightCafe.

>>20773381
Have plots.

>>20773382
Follow the thread.

>>20773393
That's what I told you to do, yes.

>>20773396
I did, to where I asked anon to share a plotless contemporary novel. He did not.

>>20773425
Plotless in this context meaning a novel like bikeanon's, which is not literally without a plot. It's just not about the plot. I told you to follow the thread.

New thread >>20773444
now with based triples!

>>20773427
I did follow the thread, all the way up to the anon I responded with who said:

>BUT WHERE IS THE PLOT?
You write genre fiction, don't you?

This is where I jumped in with
>A novel without a plot is called trash.

Follow the thread.

>>20773447
Now follow juuuust one more post and see what piece of writing was being critiqued. One which did have a plot, but was, in this context, accused of plotlessness.

>>20773454
That is irrelevent to what I was saying. I was responding to the ascerbic tone in:

>you write genre fiction don't you

You are backpedaling now that you realize you haven't presented a plotless book.

>>20773461
I'm not backpedaling, I'm explaining what the conversation was about from the start. Sorry if you missed it.

>>20773472
I outlined where I jumped in. How was that unclear? Now that you know where I jumped in you should understand my intentions were simply to refute anon. Not expand on your critique.

>>20773480
And you should understand anon (me) was never championing 100% plotless novels, he was defending bikeanon.

>>20773461
Literary fiction isn't plot-free, it's genre free.
What the hell are you anons even arguing about.

>>20773491
Anon is muddying the waters with his wishy washy definition of "plotless".

I said that the plotless novel went out of fashion in the 80s, challenged him to present a contemporary plotless novel. He couldn't. Now he is doing some weird sleight of hand, made more confusing by the fact that that this board doesn't have IDS.

>>20773509
>this board doesn't have IDs
I'm with you on that one.
I'm sick of the samefagging.

Louise gave that motherly smile, that patronising smirk - that infuriating expression parents give their teenage children in reaction to hearing such concepts uttered by their fetal mouths, that of love and loss.

Does this make sense?

>>20773536
Move the words around a bit, nix the word uttered for something less purple, consider nixing. Conceptually it is poignant and strong. Your delivery is overly wordy, leaning too chewy.

Brevity is the soul of wit. You've got an insightful observation, hone it till it is VERY clear.

>>20773566
>Consider nixing.

I mean to say:

>consider nixing 'fetal' for the same reason. My Grammarly or prowritingaid keeps deleting words on my behalf.

What are some good ways to characterize a European/russian Lite village in a fantasy story?

>>20773611
The church is the center of their economy.

>>20771990
I'd feature a short excerpt in miniMAG

minimagsubmissions@gmail.com

>>20773616
I was actually considering making it a pagan village.

>>20773611
Orthodox monks.
>>20773629
Take inspo from the steppe people. Shamanistic, not paganistic.

>>20773629
Do you want it to be shit poor?

>>20773633
What's the difference between shamanistic and paganistic villages?

>>20773636
Yeah, basically

>>20767768
Have I told you guys about my SIDE HUSTLE? It's a job that you do OUTSIDE YOUR JOB. I get $10 designing a logo for a local series of coffee shops founded by venture capitalists, and can use that to BUY CRYPTO. I'm INVESTING IN MYSELF. I'm a DOER. If you want to hear more about my other SIDE HUSTLES, I'll show you how you can go door-to-door SUCKING COCKS in Brooklyn for 1/100 of an ETH token.

>>20773382
A bike ride is not a plot. Riding an airplane is not a plot. Brushing your teeth is not a plot. A verb is not a plot or a story.

>>20773566
brilliant feedback, thank you