/lit/ - Literature

>>20757927
/x/

>>20757927
Unironically Jung

>>20757927
>>20757969
>>20757981
Your meds instructions label

>>20757981
>>20757969
I went to /x/ and they say people who read jung go to the outer layers of hell. Who's should I trust?

>>20757927
Look into Manly P. Hall, George Frazer and Carl Jung.

These authors of non-fiction are best supplemented by reading the stories of Philip K Dick (and his exegesis), going on a few trips and meditation.

Let me leave you with a quick redpill, friend: the twin towers attack was on the same date as Jesus’ birthday, separated by one astrological age

>>20757981
No, Jung is for profane retards. Read/study Evola's book on Hermeticism and the intro to magic trilogy, then go down the rabbit hole of authentic, initiatic hermetic alchemy.

Then you can begin to make sense (to an extent) of medieval and rennaissance (or older) writings and find other good sources, by the authentic Rosicrucians, such as Michael Maier (study Atalanta Fugiens). Look up Alchemy Unveiled by Johannes Helmond, that is another good one. There are some other good modern writings as well but none I'd recommend here partly because they aren't in English.

>>20758101
MPH and Jung are very lame, Evola makes them look like children. Frazer might be alright, don't know him. Phillip Dickhead? Is this a joke?

You assholes think you can take mushrooms and meditate for 15 mins a day and become immortal and be granted with supernatural powers. This isn't one of your Disney movies or videogames. People dedicate their lives to this and become outcasts.

>people think they will be granted immortality and divine powers through studying Jung, MPH and Phillip K Dickhead

>>20757927
this is among the best

>>20758096
those people are demons sent from the demiurge, do not trust them

>>20758178
and these, then go down the rabbit hole as far as you will

>>20758101
>Look into Manly P. Hall, George Frazer and Carl Jung.
>These authors of non-fiction are best supplemented by reading the stories of Philip K Dick (and his exegesis), going on a few trips and meditation.
nope

>>20758185
idiotic, Jung's techniques are more likely to make you go insane and there's no way they will grant you divine powers and immortality, this is a mockery

>>20758195
You'll never master the mystic arts until you integrate your shadow

>>20758251

>>20758096
Jesus Christ.

>>20758096
yourself

>>20757969
Fpbp

>>20758051
The Jews fears the magi

>>20757927
The old testament

>>20758096
Reading doesn't send you to hell, no

>>20758470
You haven't read enough

>>20757927
The Typhonian Trilogies, if you can understand them.

>>20758096
/x/ is retarded. Psychology and psychedelics are the closest thing to magic you can actually learn from.

>>20758101
Your little redpill is entirely incorrect..

>>20758545
>chaos magic
:-|

>>20758178
>>20758190
>Nazi writer

>>20758684
You need to go back

>>20758690
>Nazi poster

>>20757927
Directly access the weave of being via meditation

The meme books.

>>20758684
>>20758697
Haha! You showed that chud!

>>20758684
>>20758697
That is one ugly chimp. #blm

The nazis were actually the good guys btw, sorry jamal, you're just fucking dumb.

>>20757927
My diary desuu

>>20758684
SHIEETT HE A NAZI MAH NIGGA?? WHITEY BE OPREShUN US N SHIEEETT

*dilates*

*"menstruates" putrid pus and blood from xer festering fuckwound*

>>20758684
>>20758697
Evola abhorred the nazis to the point he was let go by the allies due to his convincing denouncement of them.

>>20758858
Come on man, LGBTQQAI2+ folk and BIPOC face unique challenges imposed injustly upon them by the white patriarchal-
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>20758865
This. Evola was a progressive even moreso than all these lesbians and weird mutts obsessed with my White genetics, he wanted to progress past modernity and materialism. Trannies and BIPOC are just stupid and lump him in with nazis because he criticized jewish supremacy and was a white male who had lots of sex.

>>20758663
Typhonian OTO is definitely not chaos magic, where did you see that? Chaos magic seems fine in theory, but Peter Carroll is not an accomplished magician from what I have read of his work.

>>20757969
>must be turn off

lol

>>20757927
The terrible influence of that decade-old Iron Pill/Green Pill/Brown Pill meme is still ongoing.

Meme threads about becoming "an esoteric wizard" are kept alive but bible threads get deleted

>>20757927
Pic. Related,
However 99% of /lit/ gets filtered by these books even if they pretend that theyve read it, it goes over alot everything from astral projection, to channeling, to prayer, meditation, alchemy, initiation, gnosticism, astrology, etc. And it is all has a practical bent.

Also i would recommemd meditations on the tarot, and eastern traditions,
To invigorate my interest in these things i went through real esoteric teaching, buddhist and hindu, this took me to point where i understand the depth of "esoterism" east and west, it all has a common basis in conciousness.

Its best you undergo purification before entering these activities becaise if you take ir seriously you can damage yourself; its like gaining root access to the individual, you will acquire superior states, permanent unalterable, and it will change how your experience of the world completely,
Before you get into it, unless you are free from all concepts, thoughts and beliefs, and questions, you will get n
NOWHERE.

There is no place to really start, purify yourself, your body, your lifestyle, minimise your stress, destroy your delusions, then youre ready to die and be born, to descend and ascend.

>>20759211
G???

>>20759195
How many people attained spiritual enlightenment from reading the Bible, a collection of stories about a desert volcano demon?

>>20757981
>Unironically Jung
The Red Book I feel is essential /lit/core or at least should be. Doubly so if you want to try and think /x/ shit

>>20759230
But it doesn't go beyond the psychological

>>20759219
>G???
What?
>>20757927
Also i recommend Ride the Tiger, all guenons books, his writings on initiation and metaphysics are exceptional his description of the primordial state, and so on, its all there, he talks about in his work the same path of self-knowledge amd self-realisation

Also ! Do not forget semem retention cut out all sinful activity like this, it is mostly a demonic deception, eventually you will get to the point where you will be totally freed from all things of the sort, there is no compulsion, seeking the transient pleasure of orgasm - is all wrong, seeking anything is wrong, there are also esoteric methods to use orgasm and the sexual fires and energy for inner transformation - but these things are very advanced, however its essential that you have total perfect self-control going into it,
You are to be in the likeness of God, a true and perfect man.

>>20759238
Jungs astrology is alright he is just innovative, most initiatic methods would appear distinctly "psychological" to a person who does not really know the difference between psyche and spirit, if you go into reading a "psychological" writing you can interpret it spiritually. Jung does not have a wrong point of view it is theoretically of a lower order in some way that is it pertains the psyche faculty, in the sense that it appears discursive, and limiting, individual, but there is no reason not to read him, in psychology there are traces of the spiritual, if anything you could read jung and observe the points of difference between you spiritual experience, and his psychological experiences, this would further define the psychic plane to you, even though it is already known it could become clearer and more evident.

>>20757927
There's only one real truth to be learned.
I'll explain,

The universe is deterministic
Time moves forward
evolution of universe spawned stars and planets, then life has spawned, will and greater will has been the result of that, the only thing that might have a counter to determinism

therefore, life and all the universe is an ever evolving struggle moving forward to reach free will

you're literally working towards your own absolution

>>20759243
>What?
Just wondering if I know you or if youre a different person also into those books. It's clear to me that you aren't him now. Intro to magic is so good, and you're right, 99% of /lit/ are filtered. I am pleased to find someone else who appreciates them. Are you into Hermeticism too?

Would you talk about what kind of results you've had? I haven't experienced anything too crazy but have validated for myself some of the minor teachings, still probably nowhere near seeing the sun at midnight. The purification and detachment is always ongoing, as you surely know. Recently I have been falling back into laziness, my appetites are voracious and mingling with normalfags does not help.

>>20759238
>But it doesn't go beyond the psychological
You have to crawl before walking.
Why not read a book by a man who thought more about how walking is the goal and influence of crawling than anyone else?

>>20759291
>Would you talk about what kind of results you've had? I haven't experienced anything too crazy but have validated for myself some of the minor teachings, still probably nowhere near seeing the sun at midnight. The purification and detachment is always ongoing, as you surely know. Recently I have been falling back into laziness, my appetites are voracious and mingling with normalfags does not help.
I understand it can get difficult, the purification of the will, but dont stop we must attain the level of a perfect hyperborean ascetic, as to the results I have had, I will say in general, most significant is a "cessation of mind" or like a a one-pointed superfocus of sorts, a sense of eternity, timelessness almost like a sort of stasis; for me my struggle was initially more or less sexual, i was dominated by sexual feeling, a sensuos enslavement no matter what even if i never admitted it, no matter what i read, now I have gotten more or less to the point beyond acceptance and rejection, beyond shame and pride, after applying this sort of stasis conciousness to this sense of erotic potential, i was able to control it, increase it or decrease it, etc. and in this way it has been freed up to some extent, initially when i started this because of my previous affiliation with tantra, i went through a sort of animation of the various centers, and this has lead me into an awareness of the sublte body so speak, next my experience of sleeping has changed, that is my awareness has persisted throughout, into the sleep state i bring with me a sort of lucid awareness, this leads me to awake dreaming, i have had experiences where i seperated from my body but was embodied in i guess a sort of vital body, matching the subtle body i specified before i became aware through the animation of various centers, it felt like i was in two worlds at once, the dream and waking state have merged in some way, next my creativity and imagination feels in some way delimited, i feel that i am able to imagine worlds, my powers of visualisation almost like an inner eye have developed,
I used to have terrible social anxiety but in such situations and all situations i have a sense of "disembodiment" and this persists, and nullifies along with the "cessation of mind" all that stuff, now, my reaction to sensory stimuli has in some way diminished also, that is my receptiveness to pain and pleasure,
Sometimes when i look at something i almost feel as if i can see through it many things appear transperent, i have developed a sort of discriminative sense of what is necessary, i have developed an intuition when it comes to reading scriptures, a sort of spiritual reading which came with that "cessation of thought" its almost like a state of unmoving potential, as to the midnight sun and the sun, really as with this inner eye i have a sense of the unconquered sun and inner light, aswell as inner sound and vibration.

The Book of the Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage

>>20759404
But beyond all this, I know that I have nothing too. And what is between that nothing and something, is the force of my life,

My anger and all this has subsided, that side of me now feels like a dream, i rest in seeking nothing, and willing nothing, but a sense of having everything, and this surpasses any method or activity for me.

>>20757927
my diary desu

>>20759417
How did you get to this point? Stillness meditation ?

The Book of the Seven Kings

The things you are looking for arent in books and do not try magic

>>20759404
Thanks for the reply . That's good to hear. How long have you been practicing? And do/did you practice the rituals and excercises in the book for a long time? For example, concentratikn and silence, or basically "void meditation", or the heart ritual.

>>20757927
Just don’t have sex until you’re 37

I miss the autistic pill comics so much

>>20759227
All of them :^) spiritual enlightenment is a state of grace. Not deluding yourself with fancy word games and imagining things you tell yourself are mystical experiences

>>20759273
>deterministic
No
>time moves forward
Lol no


Dumb post. This place is full of retards my lanta

>>20759404
This entire post is just some online racist playing pretend about the world. Absolutely delusional. Doubly hilarious

>>20758837
>>20758858
Yea Bro you're be such a cool esoteric wizard that reads Evoler, I can tell youre a Magus by the way you jump to embarrassing seething the second someone posts a black dude, youve got such a Noble Soul Bro.

>>20758292
based

Hang yourself you 9 days and 9 nights

>>20759983
Shut up faggot nigger, im not your bro. Don't even respond to me, dark shudra dog.

>>20759960
>retarded chimp giving it's opinion
Thanks for the laugh

>>20757927

>>20760161
I would be careful about reading Advaita Vedanta interpretations such as Shankara's as a commentary to the Upanishads, they are extremely reliant on Buddhist philosophy (Shankara is called a "cryptobuddhist" by most Hindus, and most scholars agree). If you want to read the Upanishads, work through them with editions and commentaries that aren't sectarian, or at least read an interpretation that is closer to the original meaning of the Upanishads, rather than Shankara's 9th century AD quasi-buddhism.

>>20760137
lmao you patethic dweeb. youre not riding a tiger youre pretending to be a feral house cat online

>>20760249
Not that anon but at least he isn’t black lmao

>>20760249
>nigger is actually getting mad
I'm riding your whore mom, ya she's more of a dog than a tiger, nigger halfwit.

>>20760340
read your own posts and tell me if you see a shred of nobility in them. utterly slavish and resentful.

>>20760190
hi Peter!

>>20758096
Later Jung will make you gay. The passive kind of gay. Dont risk it.

>>20759404
Where did you begin? Could you share and recommend books?

>>20758101
>Let me leave you with a quick redpill, friend: the twin towers attack was on the same date as Jesus’ birthday, separated by one astrological age
And? What are you insinuating?

>>20760369
Utterly niggerish you are

>>20760140
The fact this is your response proves the entire thing is a LARP :^) when you achieve real enlightenment youll understand

>>20759404
You are nothing in yourself, correct? How old are you?

>>20760445
Nta but I actually related a lot to his post and laughed at yours. Your little smiley doesn't make you any more correct or seemingly smug, it makes you look even more retarded.

>>20760457
Im not trying to look smug or "more correct" it probably resonated with you because youre also a retarded larper ^.^

>>20760460
Nigger or just a nigger-level intelligence?

>>20757927
Its called spiritual dialectic. A process that is to be expected because both Buddhists and Hindus concern themselves with the same reality. They don't live in different worlds like you pseudo-intellectuals.

And we have moved on from Shankara to Ramanuja about 500 years ago. The west just hasn't caught up yet. And there is a lot more dialectic development in the philosophy of Buddhism and Hinduism still.

>>20760612
meant to reply to those:

>>20760161
>>20760190
see here:
>>20760612

>>20760612
>"Moved on" from Shankara to Ramanuja about 500 years ago. The west just hasn't caught up yet.
??? Thats a shame.

>>20757927
Trying to reverse-engineer occult or magical achievements from books which one picked up and which fascinated one, often based around adulation of one chosen figure or group of figures, is a potentially quite dangerous path when it’s not just something leading to more dull New Age bullshitting. If you pick up some set of “meditation techniques,” exercises, rituals and symbology, “exploring the astral realms” and the like, or some conception of enlightenment or a higher state of consciousness and certain practices or non-practices (such as in the form of asceticism and giving up on things, repressing/denying oneself certain things, or trying to, at least), you can very potentially severely imbalance and derange yourself if you already have some underlying mental health issues. I’ve heard it compared to trying to teach yourself to play the piano but using only one or two fingers, this is an analogy to what someone who doesn’t have authentic guidance or a wiser person or hierarchy to educate them in some system, can do when they find books on mysticism and the occult which interest them. There’s a natural weighing in one’s mind, a mechanism of assessment, a tipping of the balance, towards what’s “exotic,” “fantastic,” unique and magical and glorious, and a sort of casual disregard of the more simple, basic, down-to-earth, and fundamentally necessary disciplines advised in authentic religious paths as the necessity for spiritual development.

Another good comparison is to overdose, you can psychologically “overdose” on occult information or just some heavy religious fear/punishment-and-reward-based conditioning you give yourself if you’re fragile, like how taking one aspirin can cure your headache but taking a hundred will not cure your headache or even give you enlightenment but rather can brutally kill you.

When you look at people who have taken figures like Gurdjieff and Ouspensky and the Fourth Way teachings, Crowley and Thelema/the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and its elaboration by figures like Grant and Regardie, Blavatsky, Leadbeater, Besant and the like and Theosophy, and even the Traditionalist school of figures like Guenon, Evola, and Schuon, you might be seeing people with subtle deficiencies, narrowness of thought, certain types of subtle prejudices (which they may not like to admit because the chosen school usually has a great show of “universal unprejudiced wisdom” and “freeing oneself from one’s narrow cultural conditioning”), which, however, is so fascinatingly unique and exotic that it’s not noticed what the obsession has done to the person.

>>20760528
iq is 143. Its very unlikely im not the smarter person on this site

>>20760778
Smartest. New phone has gay keyboard :P

>>20760758
For instance, let’s say you pick up on some practice of deliberately clearing your mind of all thoughts, forcefully stilling and quieting it, maybe with some guiding ideal to replace it, such as some conception like “I am”, Ramana-Maharshi or Nisargadatta-style, just exploring the sense of “I”ness as they recommend, or trying to focus as fully as possible on just what one is experiencing in the moment, being fully “here-and-now” Zen-style or perhaps even Gurdjieff-style (“self-remembering and self-observation”). Or just shamatha-vipassana meditation Buddhist-style.

Now, imbalanced, forceful people who view this as a great competition with themselves might actually start tasting altered states of consciousness — sounds awesome, doesn’t it? “I can get into some type of trance-like state, enter jhanas of meditative absorption, like doing a psychedelic or something, simply by some meditation practices? Sign me up!” — which might even further lead to a day-to-day moment-to-moment altering of perception, unusual mental and even perhaps psychic phenomena, etc. which come upon one, which of course feel like encouragement on the path.

Now, let’s turn to what experiences or figures from hundreds of years ago like one of the most influential figures in Japanese Zen Buddhism who helped revive the Rinzai school of Zen, Hakuin Ekaku (1686 - 1769), shows us is possible to experience:

>Hakuin's early extreme exertions affected his health, and at one point in his young life he fell ill for almost two years, experiencing what would now probably be classified as a nervous breakdown by Western medicine. He called it Zen sickness, and sought the advice of a Taoist cave dwelling hermit named Hakuyu, who prescribed a visualization and breathing practice which eventually relieved his symptoms. From this point on, Hakuin put a great deal of importance on physical strength and health in his Zen practice, and studying Hakuin-style Zen required a great deal of stamina. Hakuin often spoke of strengthening the body by concentrating the spirit, and followed this advice himself. Well into his seventies, he claimed to have more physical strength than he had at age thirty, being able to sit in zazen meditation or chant sutras for an entire day without fatigue.

What starts as unusually promising and compelling mental and perhaps even psychic experiences, turns into a sort of deep derealization, depersonalization, perhaps even a depression or a nervous breakdown.

Have you heard of the people today who go on Buddhist meditation retreats and then when they finish and return to ordinary life, become depressed or detached and experience some unique mental health issues?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Meditation/comments/91hpfh/deep_depression_after_ten_day_vipassana_retreat/

>>20760825


Why is this? Well, it appears self-evident — the very artificial, unnatural experience of forcing one’s behavior and mind along an unusual, rigorous path, can bring up suppressed thoughts and feelings as well as of being unable to integrate into normal daily social life, the sense perhaps that “The enlightenment and peace and tranquility I experienced THERE can’t be had permanently in my ordinary day-to-day life. There’s a schizophrenic split between that situation and normal social integration.” Or perhaps simply that almost literally looking into the void, also causes the void to look into you — the existential crisis, the “unenlightened life is not worth living but I feel I can’t reach enlightenment”, anything of that nature, where ironically the spiritual path entered to solve one’s problems causes more problems, itself becomes one whole big problem.

Now, if this is possible with some practices as apparently “simple” as zazen, pondering koans and reading various sutras, or practicing shamatha-vipassana experience, how much more of a risk is there when you get into even more fantastic stuff like the consideration of contact with discarnate entities Western-ceremonial-magic-style, so-called “astral projection,” throwing chakras and visualization practices into the mix, and all that?

As I said, there’s potentials worse than simply being a dull New Age bullshitter. The worse potential is that you actually start experiencing uncanny psychic phenomena and drive yourself nuts. Robert Anton Wilson, who experimented heavily with hallucinogens and Thelema, talks about the experience of apparently very realistically experiencing what seemed like impossible “miracles,” synchronicities, as well as the feeling of meeting with very real, definitely present discarnate entities through this experimenting, which “bled out” from the mere drug trips or Thelemic ritual into his day-to-day life.

If you think this is simply all Satanic, that’s probably a good thing. It’s probably better in this case to have a superstitious, religious fear of even considering getting into such practices, than it is to naively, blindly jump into swallowing all and sundry occult information, techniques and practices you can accumulate simply so you can experience some sort of surreal entertainment and whatever “magical” experiences one can get out of boredom and dissatisfaction with one’s day-to-day life. RAW admitted people weaker than him could very easily have been mentally hospitalized/driven nuts for life doing the same things he did.

>>20760758
>Trying to reverse-engineer occult or magical achievements from books which one picked up and which fascinated one, often based around adulation of one chosen figure or group of figures, is a potentially quite dangerous path when it’s not just something leading to more dull New Age bullshitting. If you pick up some set of “meditation techniques,” exercises, rituals and symbology, “exploring the astral realms” and the like, or some conception of enlightenment or a higher state of consciousness and certain practices or non-practices (such as in the form of asceticism and giving up on things, repressing/denying oneself certain things, or trying to, at least), you can very potentially severely imbalance and derange yourself if you already have some underlying mental health issues. I’ve heard it compared to trying to teach yourself to play the piano but using only one or two fingers, this is an analogy to what someone who doesn’t have authentic guidance or a wiser person or hierarchy to educate them in some system, can do when they find books on mysticism and the occult which interest them. There’s a natural weighing in one’s mind, a mechanism of assessment, a tipping of the balance, towards what’s “exotic,” “fantastic,” unique and magical and glorious, and a sort of casual disregard of the more simple, basic, down-to-earth, and fundamentally necessary disciplines advised in authentic religious paths as the necessity for spiritual development.

>Muh danger!
this is the standard cope of the inexperienced
>Muh authentic guidance
this is also another standard cope, while recommended is not absolutely required to be safe, of course without a proper guide more can go wrong, however the outer guide is even then only an initial substitute for the inner guide as any authentic outer guide will say
>and a sort of casual disregard of the more simple, basic, down-to-earth, and fundamentally necessary disciplines advised in authentic religious paths as the necessity for spiritual development.
true there are basic things which are ignored, like simple meditation and kriya yoga, when people go heavy into ceremonial magic at best they are creating various psychic effects, after the conscious acquisition of superior states anything, alcohol, drugs, music and sex and can be ways to realization, what matters is the consciousness of these things, the average druggie, hippie is in a totally passive state, led along unconsciously by apparitions and desires, these sorts of modern spiritualities is half assed shamanism, only the ecstatic tribal negro is far more active and his experiences are more regular,
As to the recommendation of "authentic religous paths" unless you are a devoted monastic or part of a traditional organization there is no such thing and even then there are still irregularities in these modern organisations, the quran is a book, and so is the philokalia, the bible, ibn arabi, or sufic meditation manuals.

>>20760825
>What starts as unusually promising and compelling mental and perhaps even psychic experiences, turns into a sort of deep derealization, depersonalization, perhaps even a depression or a nervous breakdown.
>Have you heard of the people today who go on Buddhist meditation retreats and then when they finish and return to ordinary life, become depressed or detached and experience some unique mental health issues?
If you want real realization you have to face the "inferior" possibilities, as above so below, if you do not conquer all that is below you will not have any realization, the surfacing of these perhaps psychic latencies have to be dealt with, which is the only advantage of the sort of guide you talk about.

>>20760882
>that “The enlightenment and peace and tranquility I experienced THERE can’t be had permanently in my ordinary day-to-day life. There’s a schizophrenic split between that situation and normal social integration.” Or perhaps simply that almost literally looking into the void, also causes the void to look into you — the existential crisis, the “unenlightened life is not worth living but I feel I can’t reach enlightenment”, anything of that nature, where ironically the spiritual path entered to solve one’s problems causes more problems, itself becomes one whole big problem.

>Now, if this is possible with some practices as apparently “simple” as zazen, pondering koans and reading various sutras, or practicing shamatha-vipassana experience, how much more of a risk is there when you get into even more fantastic stuff like the consideration of contact with discarnate entities Western-ceremonial-magic-style, so-called “astral projection,” throwing chakras and visualization practices into the mix, and all that?
>As I said, there’s potentials worse than simply being a dull New Age bullshitter. The worse potential is that you actually start experiencing uncanny psychic phenomena and drive yourself nuts. Robert Anton Wilson, who experimented heavily with hallucinogens and Thelema, talks about the experience of apparently very realistically experiencing what seemed like impossible “miracles,” synchronicities, as well as the feeling of meeting with very real, definitely present discarnate entities through this experimenting, which “bled out” from the mere drug trips or Thelemic ritual into his day-to-day life.
You're right, but there is nothing you nor I could do about it, you are talking about mental institution tier people, these people are golems with bad luck, if people go crazy they go crazy, you're trying to create fear
The New Age "Channeling" stuff is bullshit ofc, same with the whole UFO rubbish, nothing can go wrong with so-called "Astral Projection" people are blocked off from real "Astral Projection" no matter how much they "try"
Anything grounded in God, in a proper understanding of the Self, of phenomena, of the psychic is fine.
>an it is to naively, blindly jump into swallowing all and sundry occult information, techniques and practices you can accumulate simply so you can experience some sort of surreal entertainment and whatever “magical” experiences one can get out of boredom and dissatisfaction with one’s day-to-day life. RAW admitted people weaker than him could very easily have been mentally hospitalized/driven nuts for life doing the same things he did.
you are correct but we are on an anonymous message board, if some schizo stumbles upon something here does it and goes insane not my problem. stop larping as a moralfag gatekeeper.

>>20760900
Hey don’t get me wrong, I’m interested in this stuff, too. Paradoxically my opinion is one might as well study some form of ALL the major available occult, mystical, religious information, this strengthens the mind, encourages a discipline and genuine universalism, as well as unique forms of development of lateral thinking and intuition, “rounding-out” the worldview, correcting for deficiencies, imbalances, and subtle prejudices you might get if you’re obsessed with just any one favorite cultural sect, tradition, or set of teachings.

So OP’s question is silly because it’s like asking, “How do I get rich quick?” or “How do I become ripped instantly without having to put in any effort into it?”You can listen to get-rich-quick-schemes or take steroids but you might be getting scammed on the one hand and harming yourself on the other hand. These sound like silly parallels but I think they’re very possible, but ironically most people are so dull and uninquiring and instantly skeptical/dismissive of anything not inside their worldview that they couldn’t drive themselves nuts through studying the occult and mysticism if they tried, they have a sort of protective filter in their brains of, “This is just far-out bullshitting,” which perhaps in some or even many cases it really is.

You may in some or even many cases also have a point about the potential imperfections and even dullness and rigid hidebound mentality of the necessity of the “school,” reverence for the hierarchy, the master-discipline/teacher-student relationship, which can become exotic cultural bullshitters thinking themselves to be far more worthy and enlightened than they really are, but even in considering this whole possibility (of genuinely authentic higher spiritual experiencing and development) we implicitly return to the guru-chela, master-disciple relationship, because you’re assuming your sources of mystical knowledge are genuinely more advanced in this than you are at first before you study and absorb it all, and that they themselves also had to learn it from somewhere, even if it’s from books, or spontaneous self-imposed realization such as by Ramana. But these fascinating outliers should be acknowledged as that, outliers.

Fantastic and improbable as it may sound to you, I think it is possible to study teachings of a tradition such as Sufism or Hinduism by books by oneself for years, and think one is really developing and progressing, and has extracted the necessary wisdom. Reverse-engineered it all, so to speak. But then you could meet a genuine Hindu guru or Sufi sheikh — assuming it’s an authentically self-realized person — in the presence of whom or the process of directly, personally learning from whom, a condensed span of experience — of days, weeks, or months — is far more profound and a much more accelerated process of learning than years trying to teach oneself it from books.

>>20761051
>Hey don’t get me wrong, I’m interested in this stuff, too. Paradoxically my opinion is one might as well study some form of ALL the major available occult, mystical, religious information, this strengthens the mind, encourages a discipline and genuine universalism, as well as unique forms of development of lateral thinking and intuition, “rounding-out” the worldview, correcting for deficiencies, imbalances, and subtle prejudices you might get if you’re obsessed with just any one favorite cultural sect, tradition, or set of teachings.
agreed i like your perspective.
> These sound like silly parallels but I think they’re very possible, but ironically most people are so dull and uninquiring and instantly skeptical/dismissive of anything not inside their worldview that they couldn’t drive themselves nuts through studying the occult and mysticism if they tried, they have a sort of protective filter in their brains of, “This is just far-out bullshitting,” which perhaps in some or even many cases it really is.
Agreed.
>in the presence of whom or the process of directly, personally learning from whom, a condensed span of experience — of days, weeks, or months — is far more profound and a much more accelerated process of learning than years trying to teach oneself it from books.
Agreed, guided meditation you are really really invested in is effective and can change you/

>>20760989
You have a fair point that I’m acting like a babysitter, sort of infantilizing people, and I apologize for that, I thought it was worth saying because I’ve seen and experienced stuff like this. And on the other hand it is also quite true people can drive themselves nuts over anything and everything, not just mysticism or looking into various religious traditions, and perhaps they would have gone insane, anyway, and were just looking for something suitably schizoid for them to attach themselves to, in any case.

And I’m not trying to create fear but point out that paradoxically the basicness of some precepts of authentic religious traditions is the greatest and most uplifting stuff one can get from it, the simple and the most immediately applicable, the first patient steps, more so usually then the fantastic techniques and occult lore (which I don’t even deny are possible, exist, have a basis in reality).

A parallel perhaps is that in Christianity, you have the saints who reputedly could perform miracles of bilocation, levitation, precognition, mind-reading, healing, prophesying, etc. But if you told the average Christian you were interested in becoming a Christian so that YOU TOO could heal, perform miracles, read people’s minds, predict the future, they’d be a bit bemused, even if they admit this is an accepted belief of Christianity, that such saints could do and did do so-and-so and thereby became canonized by their Church. So we’re definitely in more agreement than we are in disagreement, I think, the agreement being that the permanent attainment of realization is far more preferable to seeking “occult experiences and fascinating esoterica” for their own sake. The greatest “siddhi” is being able to be content with one’s lot and even sit or stand or walk in blissful tranquility, the state of samadhi, if you will, for extended periods of time, and let this permeate your whole life. Precisely because it is so simple is why it is disregarded by many. As the Sufis say, “The Secret protects itself.” It is “self-secret” or an open secret.

>>20758096
Not wrong tho. Hell is a pure indifferentiation, the one that you have evolved to a personality and perception type to hide from in the first place. So go figure

>>20761244
If you look at someone like Robert Anton Wilson — who, I note, is on the far opposite pole of spectrum from figures like Guenon and the Traditionalist school, in terms of how unabashedly iconoclastic and heterodox he is, humorously irreverent, and syncretic, as well as willing to explore psychological and scientific perspectives on and ramifications of insights and practices of various religious and occult traditions — well, to make a long story short, someone like RAW will tell you, that various occult practices, techniques, and traditions are simply the complicated layer wrapped around the core process developed by sages of “mindfucking” oneself, themselves and others, as he would crudely put it, into higher states of consciousness. As he would speculate, it’s a higher potential of the human nervous system, turning on and activating normally latent, undeveloped or currently evolving higher circuits of consciousness, organs of perception and experiencing dormant in humanity.

Now, for someone like Guenon this is RAW being a New Age pseudoscientific mystic and getting into the glaring mistake of applying evolutionary ideas to religious traditions, the conception of the process as an evolutionary one (such as that the soul can evolve or is evolving, for instance, as he bashes the Theosophists for claiming and linking with the doctrine of reincarnation) instead of one which is revealing the primordial Truth which has always been there.

>>20757927
study topos theory and categorical logic

>>20761359
But if you look at systems of Hindu yoga like the Tantric schools and kundalini yoga specifically, the raising of the kundalini from the muladhara chakra at the base of the spine to the sahasrara (thousand-petalled lotus) at the top of the skull held to be the interface between the individual Atman with Brahman and thereby lead to moksha; as well as the belief that a senior real yogi or guru more developed in his level of kundalini energy than the junior disciple can transmit this energy-of-enlightenment into the disciple’s lesser-developed energy system through kundalini shaktipat (a type of blessing or grace which can manifest through a look, as if telepathically merely by looking at them, or a physical touch, or even giving the disciple a mantra to repeat with the breath); if you look also at Sufi visualization practices, mental prayers/repetition (the dhikr) and teachings in which students are urged to activate the “lataif”, internal subtle organs corresponding to different faculties and potentials of experiencing of the human soul (rather analogous to the chakras of Buddhist and Hindu yoga), as well as their use of ecstatic, heart-centered, devotional music and poetry centering around fana (dissolution) and subsequent baqa (abiding, a permanent state as opposed to the fleeting mystical feeling of oneness with Allah in fana) in Allah; and if you look at the etymology of the Pali word “vipassana” of the Buddhists, often translated as insight, as in vipassana-meditation or insight-meditation, which literally means “extraordinary seeing”; and the Tibetans also translating it as lhagthong, “seeing more”; if you look at the Zen processes and teachings of looking into koans and seeing the non-duality of the situation described in the koan between the teacher and the student, with your own mind; as well as their famous term and reputed accounts of satori, instant awakening or sudden enlightenment brought about by a concurrent cause which matches and brings to fruition the student’s rising potential (most famously through a sudden shout, a bizarre saying or phrase, even a whack on the back or a punch or a kick), which is often used interchangeably with kensho, meaning “seeing (the) nature/essence,” as in the nature of your own mind which is fundamentally indistinguishable from that of the Buddha’s; and how the satori/kensho experience is only a starting experience and not a permanent attainment, and has to be fully developed and repeated and abided in permanently before one can be said to have reached Buddhahood; —

>>20761386
anyway, some interesting comparisons like these, especially in the light of RAW’s mischievous belief that many religious traditions and mystical/occult practices are “nothing more” than mindfucking oneself, some type of intensification of the potentials of the human nervous system; all this might eventually get you so spaced-out and strangely content that you don’t even feel the need to want to be an esoteric wizard anymore. You might realize the strange truth that as apparently diverse systems as Zen, yoga, and something like heart-centered devotional Sufi mysticism, are simply telling you the strange truth that you can raise your own level of awareness simply by really wanting to raise your own level of awareness. If this sounds frustrating and you want to know a specific way HOW to raise your level of awareness, how to be both a better and more aware, conscious, thoughtful person, what book to read, what practice to practice, what teacher to meet, you might have to be given the frustrating response that there is not just one way to do it but infinite ways to do it, intangible as this sounds.

>>20760783
Dude you aren't even that intelligent. I met smarter people who were fucking (social) retards, just good at math and logic.

>>20758684
(you)

>>20758096
/x/

>>20757927
>>20757969
Is this the last kind of heroic fantasy a man can have in the modern world?

>>20758684
He was an ultrafacist.

>>20762555
Super*
Which means he was beyond or above fascism.

>>20758101
this is retarded

>>20760927
Yep. The awful New Age phrase “love and light” doesn’t really fully encapsulate the genuine experience of living life and especially the devoted search for mystical knowledge or even just piously following your religion of choice. Often, perhaps cornily enough, it’s your own personal “hell” you have to go through before you can reach your “heaven,” and this not quite just in a cliched psychotherapeutic sense, as in your own personal history of childhood trauma or whatever, but actual existential dread and crises, deep uncertainty about the meaning and purpose of life, about whether you can attain what you wish to attain at all (salvation, nirvana, moksha, what-you-will), as well as your own character-flaws, bad habits, sins, your own great obstructions to the Truth, the barriers you’ve raised against it. In Jungian terms — which, as has been mentioned in this thread, has both some flaws and some interesting highlights/perspectives on talking about mysticism — it’s facing and integrating “the Shadow”, the repressed, dormant, subconscious, sometimes deeply sinister, rather negative aspects of oneself which one consciously tries to repress and ignore in oneself.

People think spiritual traditions exist in some timeless perennial primordial static and unchanging vacuum but there are modern rather intelligent, cultured Sufis, for instance, who have integrated both their own faith in their tradition along with the scholarship and learning of the modern West, the insights of modernity, but not in the sense of throwing out their tradition and then making some “updated” New Age form of it, but rather of pointing out its perennial up-to-dateness, its applicability for all times, people, and places. Anyway, one modern British expatriate to India named Irina Tweedie, who wrote a surreally beautiful, awe-inspiring account of her training under a sheikh/guru of the Naqshbandiyya-Mujadidya order in her book “Daughter of Fire,” Tweedie makes references to Jung and his thought in relation to her discipleship, which by a synchronicity I just found a perfect example of by opening the book up right now, in which she notes that authentically traveling the spiritual path (which she also refers to as simply Yoga, with the teachers of the lineage she was training under being known for freely blending Sufic and yogic terminology, practices, and theology), is MORE than just psychological personal individuation and in fact requires this as the STARTING point before it can even be thought of.

>So I told him all this in the morning; my heart was aching so much. His face was severe. He was half listening, half in Samadhi. I had the feeling that I was boring him.

>”Why don’t you become a human being? Why don’t you try to become less than the dust at my feet?” I stared at him. It seemed like an unexpected attack.

>”Am I not a human being?” I was amazed and felt forlorn.

>>20763292
>>20760927
>”What you are I don’t know, but a human being you are not,” he drawled, and it sounded like a growl. “Only when you have become less than the dust at my feet will you be balanced, and only then can you be called a human being!”

>C.G. Jung! flashed like lightning through my mind. In his writings, Carl Jung emphasized again and again the danger of what he calls “inflation,” and our mental asylums are full of Napoleons, Cleopatras, Julius Caesars, not to mention even more exalted personages. I was always convinced that the process of Individuation is a preliminary step, a springboard, so to say, a starting point to something more, which I think would be Yoga or Self Realization. The individuation process makes the human being whole, complete, to be able to take his rightful place as a balanced, perfectly normal member of the human family. But Yoga is much more than that. And in Yoga there must be much more danger, consequently, of the so-called “inflation.” At one time during the training the disciple is bound to begin to realize his divine origin, and then to say and to believe: I am God! It is then that one needs a Teacher. And the Teacher will say: no, be careful, with those lips not yet pure, with the heart not yet as limpid as the Waters of Life, it is a blasphemy to say that you are God! Not a Great Teacher does not say it so directly — he simply teaches humility: “Become less than the dust at my feet.” How can the inflation arise if one is made to be so humble?

>But this is not all. From my own experience I know that the nearer one moves towards the Reality, the more one realizes the absolute oneness of all and everything. And if I am part of something so Great that my mind cannot even conceive it, of something which fills me with awe, where is the pride? And those two processes — the inner realization of absolute oneness and, on the other hand, the Teacher pushing one’s nose into the dust, to put it figuratively — they protect the disciple from the greatest danger: of himself being inflated like a balloon bursting with pride. I think it is here where Yoga and modern psychology meet; the training of the disciples, devised thousands of years ago, and the psychiatrist’s dealing with human problems use the same tactics; Yoga and science speak the same language.

Some bipolar guy is spamming this thread

>>20758101
>Let me leave you with a quick redpill, friend: the twin towers attack was on the same date as Jesus’ birthday, separated by one astrological age
does that mean 9/11 Truthers are the new Jews?

>>20757927
The teachings of Don Juan
A separate reality
Journey to Ixtlan
And the power of silence By Carlos Castenada

>>20757927
It is so.

>>20757927
Stick to the ancient sources or the very contemporary. From the beginning of the Enlightenment to the first half of the 20th century is the dark age that brought about so many cancers that plague occultism today like modern astrology, New Age, "Traditionalism" aka New Age but pretending it isn't new, jung-esque psychological/"spiritual" "alchemy"

>>20760369
Its nothing more than you deserve.

>>20757927
Read original texts, learn languages, think for yourself. Neville Goddard is a pretty good English writer who touches upon etymology

>>20760445
>low iq nigger thinks he knows how enlightened people would respond to it
1. I'm not even the same guy pretending to be enlightened, I'm just bullying you because you're a shitty r3ddit troll...
2. ...So your responses don't warrant any amount of respect, you deserve to be bullied out of the thread, you aren't interested in discussion and have nothing to offer (understated)
3. It's more likely they just haven't reached certain states yet, idiot niggers like you probably think its like harry potter and happens overnight.

Also, there's no way you have a 143 IQ, you are terrible with logic, your attempts at trolling are pitiful, you write like a 12 year old. 100% chance you're a dumb nigger, maybe you have a high IQ relative to chimps though. Congrats, idiot. Just kidding.

>>20762385
>>20763604
Don't feed him. Obviously that thing is an unintelligible nigger and deserves to be attention-starves.

>>20758545
give a qrd on the Typhonian Trilogies please

>>20760825
interesting post, thanks for the effort
will have to look into this Hakuin Ekaku fella more

>>20763613
It deserves to be ruthlessly beaten

>>20763615
Someone else on here provided an excellent summary once, one that I'm too schizo to attempt. Maybe it's findable in the archive?

But basically, Grant continues Crowley's work and takes it down entirely new paths somewhat akin to the aghori tradition of tantric yoga through exploring the artistic works of Lovecraft and AO Spare, communicating with entities at the edges of the solar system, working the reverse side of the Tree of Life, surfing the Setian Current, etc. All while never losing sight of the primary goal and responsibility of the adept to attain communion with the Holy Guardian Angel.

There's really nothing better in Western occultism. I've studied and accomplished much in both Eastern and Western traditions. The fact that the OTO drove Grant out discredits the entire organization and their legacy in my eyes.

>>20760758
>>20760825
>>20760882
>>20761244
Thank you for the effortposts. This is sobering advice.

>>20761244
Can you post a list of books I should read to understand all of this

>>20763715
Hermeticism is totally superior, objectively speaking. Why would you screw around with improvised meme crap? The ancients make Grant look like the LARPing faggot he is, he's a fool, a symptom of extreme degeneration and subversion, I wouldn't touch it. I would cuck to islam and become a sufi mystic before that.

>>20763927
The old gods and old magics become progressively weaker as the Kali Yuga goes on. The only thing that works is highly individualistic and idiosyncratic, it's in Grant's methodology that the real value lies. Anyone in tune with the Aeon would know this. Who is the larper here?

>>20759945
Christianity is such a spiritually dead faith that its adherents can't even conceptualize of the physical experience of enlightenment that is attainable in this lifetime. Sad!

What are some good practical step by step books for developing a spiritual discipline? Is Franz Bardon decent?
>>20758646
Psychedelics fucked me up

>>20760825
>deep derealization, depersonalization
This happened to me after a psychedelic experience and it hasn't really gone away.

>>20760758
>>20760825
But what if I don't believe in any organized religion?

>>20763927
>Hermeticism
That is incredibly vague and incompasses many different and often contrary doctrines.

>>20757927
Frances Yates if you want to know about real Esoterism as it existed in history, /x/ if you just want to talk to machine elves

>>20764039
>The old gods and old magics become progressively weaker as the Kali Yuga goes on
I don't really know what you mean. Are you saying that transcendent/higher realms of being are actually subject to temporal reality? That makes no sense. I believe there are various techniques for "making contact" (i.e., with heavenly realms) which are more or less effective in certain ages, accessing them is more difficult, and accessing lower realms/beings is basically just a question of how degenerate and "evil" you are. But you seem to be missing the point when it comes to higher realms, or what a Tradition is. Crowley was alright, but the people who followed in his footsteps i doubt ever achieved immortality and divine powers (the latter does not encompass psychic powers, which are of a lower order and of literal interest compared to the heavens).

Purification is still needed and is a valid technique for divine magic, and when it comes to enlightenment it seems basically mandatory, or at least asceticism is. The list of accomplished magicians who teach this is very long, and it goes back very far in time but is also used more recently. In fact such a purification is probably an important method in kali yuga, since we are so dirty and caught up in materiality and satiating our vulgar ego.

Still, feel free to recommend me some of his books and I'll check them out, but I doubt I will find too much in terms of initiatic interest.

>>20764204
True. I mean the initiatic Hermetic Tradition, the technique of which is alchemy, relating to various "immortal bodies", which I would argue is the authentic interpretation of the Tradition (yes, i know everyone believes they know the "authentic" Tradition, but people playing with chemistry sets will never obtain immortality and divine powers), encoded in the enigmatic texts going back millenia. It is a magical initiation passed down through royal bloodlines and secret societies, without a doubt pre-Christian. It is separate from kabalah, which started to mix with it relatively recently, Hermeticism as i have defined it probably comes from Egypt (Hermes-Thoth). Alchemy = al kemia, Arabic in form, Greek in root. Kemia from Kemit = black earth, an old term for Egypt, and a very significant symbol in Hermeticism.

You could also call it inner alchemy, as opposed to outer. I know little about the latter, and personally I don't believe the end goal is the same.

>>20764273
What does purification entail?
Regarding hermeticism, what's your take on this guy's books >>20764172

>>20764172
Lots of good exercises for starting out, little in terms of important theory/concepts/knowledge/symbols etc. to get you farther. For that you would need someone who explains the Hermetic symbolism. You could check out Alchemy Unveiled by Johannes Helmond. It is quite explicit but will still filter most people, especially beginners. Evola is also very good.

>>20764281
So, Bardon for practice, Helmond/Evola for theory then? Thank you.
>for starting out
Does this imply the Bardon trilogy doesn't take you far enough in practice?

>>20764279
Basically asceticism, resisting desire in all forms. Working towards pure thoughts and deeds. I think this is pretty much a pre-requisite for all higher forms of spirituality, unless you are practicing dangerous LHP methods, but even then detachment is mandatory unless you wish to doom yourself.

Look up Kremmerz, there is a compilation of some of his writings in English that is pretty good, although it is only a fraction of what he wrote. His writings need to be meditated on and read slowly, and reread many times. Beautiful stuff. Same goes for a lot of the Ur Group writings already posted here, which are extremely good. Definitely more depth than Bardon, although the latter has a good "program" for practical exercises, but you need the higher framework. Btw, i already replied to you.

I think I will stop posting now, I've said a lot, not too much i hope. Hopefully some beginners can derive some value from my posts, I am basically a beginner still, but I believe I have a thorough understanding that can help to speed things up for others.

>>20764286
Helmond only has the one book, nobody knows who he is, but he is clearly an initiate. No, i mean the ones I recommend are good primers for getting you into the Hermetic Tradition proper, so you can hopefully begin to understand the initiatic texts, of which there are many. I won't bother listing them, Evola's book on Hermeticism has them all cited. Although Michael Maier's Atalanta Fugiens is very good, you could check it out now.

>>20764301
>resisting desire in all forms
What are the implications of this for people who have careers, material responsibilities, and so on? Is it possible to participate without indulging?

>>20764273
Alchemy was purely a material science. Inner (psychological)/"spiritual" alchemy is a modern invention. Put down Evola and read the actual source texts.

>>20764307
It makes it harder in some ways, in other ways it might be good, since it is a more direct challenge to overcome. Eventually you may just quit them though. If you're a father that's tough, but I don't think it disqualifies you at all.

>>20764308
TOP KEK!

Which ones would you recommend, sir?

>>20764322
I'm not a father, but I own a growing business and several people's livelihoods depend on me. I have no real responsibilities aside from that.
>a more direct challenge
I seem to be unusually fortunate in everything pertaining to material wealth. Maybe that's the challenge.

>>20764331
That's based, I would say you're all set to go. What kind of business?

>>20764326
>spoonfed me
I don't know what level of understanding you are on. You'd probably have to start with the Greeks.

>>20764350
You misunderstand. I am merely asking for your personal recommendations, I already know and have read original sources, and was wondering if I may have already read the ones that you might recommend.

>>20764347
>What kind of business?
Gemstones, both the commercial and scientific aspects.

harry potter

>>20764361
>I already know and have read original sources
Yeah, sure. Not going to take the chance of possibly breaking oath.

>>20764382
If you took an oath it must be pretty important. Who are you talking about? Synesius? Zosimos? Can you at least send a photo of your laboratory?

>>20759155
Checked, you'll never stop us

>>20759953
Based

>>20761413
I've been studying these traditions for years. Any advanced stuff you could point me towards? I agree with everything you're saying, I always enjoy these posts that get me back to the fundamentals, so I'd like some readings if you have them (beyond the Flower Ornament Sutra).

>You might realize the strange truth that as apparently diverse systems as Zen, yoga, and something like heart-centered devotional Sufi mysticism, are simply telling you the strange truth that you can raise your own level of awareness simply by really wanting to raise your own level of awareness.
Very well said, and true in my experience.

>>20760161
ITT:
Science is hard, so we take the pajeet pill.

>>20759953
Quantum physics is 100% deterministic in the Multiverse framework. You only see one outcome so it seems random.

>>20766021
Science is the work of satan

>>20762550
Yes, there is no more frontier. And if we ever do go out into space, its going to be so slowly, and so governed that you'll never find freedom. The whole world has been mapped, and science tells us your life has no meaning. Magic is the only hope

>>20763803
>>20763851
The paradoxical fact is I only recommend/say that stuff because I think people are really usually more insane than authentic spiritual traditions, saints, and sages are, who don’t necessarily intend to drive people crazy and shouldn’t be taken as a reason to go crazy, but whom latently crazy or imbalanced people can desperately seek after and then use as a means of further driving themselves crazy.

There’s also the further paradox that if something doesn’t give you some immediate overwhelming experience, “Ah, yes, I see now! I’m totally, fully completely and permanently enlightened forever, divinely free, immortal, blissful and happy with all the divine perfections, superhuman powers or siddhis after you explained this to me!” it can be thrown in the trashbin, “Why should I read or care about this stupid crap?” But>>20763927
, if you patiently study some of this literature and get beyond the crude animalistic immediate desire of: “What can this give me right now?” you might learn something, almost as if in spite of yourself.

So I could recommend something like Nisargadatta Maharaj’s “I Am That.” And in the text, you could funnily enough find frustrated, dry, analytically intellectual students and seekers challenging him with questions along the lines of, “If You’re so fucking happy, beyond time and space, perfect, and One with All That Is, why can’t you read my mind or tell me what’s going on in New York City right now?” or, “It seems like you’re just in some selfish psychic/hypnotic trance in which you’ve gotten over your own suffering and the suffering of the world simply by detaching yourself from it. Your state and your supposed ‘wisdom’ doesn’t help the people dying in wars, of plagues and sicknesses, doesn’t help with all the misery in the world.” Or, “It paradoxically seems like your advice to clean up our lives, be better, more dedicated, sincere and earnest people in our search for the state of enlightenment you have, not expect immediate or miraculous results or permanent comfort and happiness on the lower levels of our presenting or experiencing, is just an impossible superhuman injunction to be perfect. It’s as if you’re telling us, ‘Be enlightened simply by being enlightened.’”

So of course the same hypothetical objections and frustrations arise then and there as they can here and now, and have arisen for centuries or millennia.

If Nisargadatta compassionately, patiently explains, “I am not trying to delude you or trick you. Just go deeply into the sense of ‘I am’ and get to the truth and the source behind it,” it still seems somehow unsatisfying, so intangible and frustrating. Or you could go, “He’s just some stupid culturally conditioned Indian playing games with Western seekers for fame and money, some shoddy New Age guru crap,” although he worked as the owner of a cigarette store till the end of his life and eschewed wealth and fame.

>>20758171
Lmao

>>20766832
Reality is the final frontier. And so Billy sets out into the deepest recesses of his mind to find meaning and contentment in a self induced madness but all the while wresting to keep one foot grounded in reality lest he lose himself completely.

>>20759265
>most initiatic methods would appear distinctly "psychological" to a person who does not really know the difference between psyche and spirit
Spot on. That's why Corbin is required reading after Jung. Jung knew what he was doing, and seemingly really wanted to jump into metaphysics (of which he was competent in, but not able to operate on because of meme materialism). It's a shame we don't have more popular elucidators of his work on that level anymore

Am I the real we?

>>20761051
Meeting these rare full power enlightened individuals does a lot to fast forward your growth. Just being in their vicinity is an energetic crash course. The transmission can take a very short amount of time, and (while who knows if this is the case for anyone else, this is just what I've observed in myself) takes a significant amount of time to fully integrate. It can be very destabilizing depending on the individual and context, so yeah just pay attention when you meet those authentically self-realized people.

>>20758096
>anon went to x for some spiritual wisdom
>not realizing hes talking with hylic christians saying shit about based jung
>why is the whole x like this

>>20757927
Umineko, is a visual novel.

What are the recommended books for Gnosticism intro, &/ specifically Sophia?

>>20770138

>>20770438
thanks lad

>>20759983
Halts Maul Sören

>>20768460
Reality is the first apparent frontier.

>>20766832
>science tells us your life has no meaning
does it?

>>20758292
jesus christ didnt write anything so I assume you mean the bible.
the bible and the apocrypha are full of esoteric secrets and the worls of western esotericism is full of christianity.

>>20758051

>>20760758
very based and well informed take.

>>20757927
Arthurian legend.

Magic is not real lmao

I just keep it simple and astral project into the past to read lost grimoires.

>>20757927
Robert Anton Wilson's Chodedinger's Cat trilogy and maybe a dozen Vonnegut novels should do the trick.

>>20770438
Why is Omelas on that list?

>>20772077
Are you fucking retarded/a redditor? Or was this bait?

>>20771997
Prove it

>>20758096
Mysticism and the paranormal are real but /x/ is a low IQ board full of schizos who can't handle the heat of delusions

Jung's Liber Novus, non-ironically.

>>20773394
>t. filtered by Evola

>>20758096
I read /x/ all the time and I've literally never heard that.

>>20758497
Based.

>>20759983
You're literally the one who started seething first. Saw Evola's name in the book and went "omggggggg where's the hecking doooooownvooote!!!"

everything i've read on magic*the occult starts with the assumption i already believe in the existance of a soul, a god/aka the eternal, or whatever, etc. or shit like sigil magick that assumes the universe is somehow aware and you can project your will into it and it'll work in your favour. that's all a bit stretch if you're starting from a secular, atheistic position

>>20757981
Serrano thought Jung to be very limited by his christian upbringing

>>20773598
>why does magic assume you believe in magic
Anyway, read Prometheus Rising if you want to build the occult worldview from scratch.

>>20773598
entirely fair point. so from there, you can experiment to see if it is true and you can experience something different through specific techniques, like a science, or you can just reject it since you've never experienced it.

>>20773293
i just don't take people who self identify as internet memes very seriously. listen to some pink floyd while you're reading vonnegut.

It's hard to see all the titles here. There are individual pictures of each of them here if you want to actually see what books they are: https://medium.com/@HephaestusAndTheFlyTrap/esoterica-for-your-health-cbf9b8cf270a

>>20773794
Frater ?

>ctrl-f
>no meditations on the tarot

can't say im surprised.

>>20773813
Ctrl F:
>>20759211

>>20773825
sheeeeit. i lied.

it's probably the only good esoteric book I've ever read though, I think Watts' book on Christianity is also pretty good, I forget the name of it rn

>>20773840
>Watts' book on Christianity
Myth and Ritual In Christianity

>>20773840
>>20773853
>Allan Watts
Wasnt that guy one of the peak "new age" people is the book really that good?

>>20773625
Serrano was a retard

This is coming from an esoteric Hitlerist who has read the entire Hitler trilogy (golden thread, ultimate avatar, manu)

>>20773924
Serrano was an autist

>>20758178
Seconded

>>20773598
The secular atheistic position can lead to the wildest shit if you actually sit down and consider the structure of the world we can observe. Mass-energy equivalence and relativity, for example, directly feed into mind-body dualism and the implications only spiral from there.

>>20773908
it was his doctoral thesis when he was in the seminary, most people don't know watts was a serious theology student and was in the priesthood formation for a time before he became a self help guru

Had a stress induced episode of depersonalization a quarter of the way into the red book which I’ve been reading literally and I’m unironcially going insane or speedrunning divinity

Seeing a therapist tomorrow. The framework of Jung looks a lot different when you’re living it

>>20774420
I'm not trolling, you are far more likely to end up in a mental hospital than reach states of "supra-consciousness" or divinity. You are opening yourself up to influences almost certainly of a lower order (as opposed to a higher), and you probably don't have the strength or knowledge of how to defend yourself and overcome it.

>>20773924
Just because you read something, or claim to have read it, doesn't mean you understand it, or that you won't pretend to have understood it.
Or that you won't refuse to accept it because some part of you, somewhere deep inside, is 'against' him, be it politically or religiously.

Think how many people ""read"" le bible.
Think how many people are actually good according to it.

how did jung reach his conclusions given most psychologists today conduct studies

>>20775764
His source is that he made it the fuck up.

>>20760989
>people are blocked off from real "Astral Projection" no matter how much they "try"
wtf why whos gatekeeping this shit

>>20775771
what does he say about conducting studies

>>20774610
The red book did not trigger the episode for the record, it was stress related from work which has ceased. I do have some formal understand of psych, but mostly in relation to mental health. The glimpses of divinity is more like being able to play your life like a sim character. Several thoughts, behaviors were suddenly more observable than ever. From that temporary window I was able to distinguish several aspects of my personality that did not suit “me,” all of this in a desperate attempt to find something of myself that is myself (soul or otherwise). I did fortunately journal most of this to review and help inform my progress later. I won’t be amazed to received a diagnoses of bpd or something related that I had just managed adapt to, but I identified forms of therapy in this place that can help me continue this exploration without needing to be thrown out of my own mind forcibly.

>>20774610
I appreciate looking out, I should have said the stress was work related. I do have a decent conceptual framework of mental health for a layperson. “Divinity” is a strong word for being able to look at yourself like a sims character, but I don’t mean that cynically.

>>20760758
>>20760825
>>20760882
Very based and true. A few years ago I was meditating and fasting almost everyday without having a religious framework to guide me. One day, to my fascination and horror, I had actual visions during the meditation session (visions of symbolic significance, which I still think a lot about) and then felt very concretely the presence of the higher realms. From that day I never dared to meditate again since I realized these things are very serious. Instead I looked for and adopted an actually living religion and tried as much as possible to learn about it and make my life to conform to its standards. I still don't plan on starting a spiritual practice beyond daily prayers for at least a few more years to prepare myself as much as I can. These things are very serious and you will almost definitely hurt yourself if you don't know what you're doing.

>>20776310
Can you talk more about your experiences?

>>20758684
Well yeah, lefties and blacks are not capable of spiritual stuff and are forced to walk this earth in their materialistic prison.

>>20757927
Tao te ching.
It has a profound and liberating book.
The knowledge it offers you is there for you to realize that all knowledge is within yourself.

That which offers no resistance,
overcomes the hardest substances.
That which offers no resistance
can enter where there is no space.
Few in the world can comprehend
the teaching without words,
or understand the value of non-action.
- Tao te ching, chapter 43

People despise being orphaned, widowed and poor.
But the noble ones take these as their titles.
In losing, much is gained,
and in gaining, much is lost.
- Tao Te Ching, chapter 42

Without opening your door,
you can know the whole world.
Without looking out your window,
you can understand the way of the Tao.
The more knowledge you seek,
the less you will understand.
The Master understands without leaving,
sees clearly without looking,
accomplishes much without doing anything
- Tao te ching, chapter 47

>>20776630
Irony is supposed to be funny

>>20766072
>Multiverse
You are deluded.

>>20774610
This is why almost nobody should even get involved in Esotericism. Particularly outside of an orthodox religious tradition.

>>20776099
>Divinity
Nothing less is the promise of Hermetic initiation.

>>20758195
That's how it goes, you have to go into psychosis and integrate the experience to reach higher levels of development. There's a possibility of permanent damage, if the process is not carried on properly.

>>20759410

This is a serious book.

>>20774420
Don't see a therapist, you will be medicated, which will disrupt an essential process of mental and spiritual advancement.

Read "Positive Disintegration" by Kazimierz Dąbrowski immediately, it will all clear up.

You have to go trough this, nobody said it's easy.

>>20776664
It's an extraordinarily wise book, but doesn't provide the practice or guide one to understand the Truths written in it experientially, which is the only important way.

>>20757927
Here’s a list a friend of mine composed, using his own reading, lists of books I’ve given him, lists given him by the martinists, Oto and a few other groups. There are disagreements I have with it and a few missing works, but all in all it’s good enough.

https://pastebin.com/fw8pDr2H


>>20773800
I only use digital these days.

>>20758545
Bad introduction to occultism since they’re not meant for beginners.

>>20777643
There are neidan (taoist inner alchemy) books that discuss techniques. Fabrizio Pregadio wrote several scholarly translations. I would particularly check out Awakening to Reality (Wuzhen Pian) and it's companion book which discusses techniques, Foundations of Inner Alchemy. I would also check out Thomas Cleary's translation, Understanding Reality. It's dated, but it includes the full commentary of Liu Yining, which helped immensely in my research on alchemy in general. Frater also recommends the Ge Hong, and Taoist Yoga by Lu K'uan Yu.

>>20772430
A world predicated on suffering is to be rejected

>>20773813
It's just catholic shilling, not very interesting.

>>20774610
>lower order
Integration of the shadow is important according to Jung
>the strength or knowledge of how to defend yourself
How is this done?
>>20776310
>an actually living religion
What if none of them appeal to me?

>>20779039
>Integration of the shadow is important according to Jung
Youre correct even from a "Traditional" perspective which that anon is clearly influenced by, there needs to be a descent before an ascent, that in the terminology you put the forth, the "shadow" has to be completely rendered illusory and impossible so there will be an eternal peace between and all inferior states of being, as to lower vs higher order, the conceived absolute which you are attempting to reintegrate with is what he is referring to, but even then it is impossible for him to understand your situation or your level of metaphysical discernment. If you never recover from your perceived negative state then this will just be an indication that you regressed into an inferior being, but if you get through this trauma and instability and breakthrough, then you will be better off,
When the anon says strategies for defence etc. It is a misnomer because you should find them on your own, it would only increase your state of instability if you were to start paying lipservice to a religion now, your own your own good luck.

>>20778521
Thanks, but what is the companion book called?

>>20757969
>knowledge
you don't know basic grammar kys

>>20777587
Couldn't I just take psychedelic drugs to do this?

>>20779141
I would advise against it, psychs fucked me up for a while

>>20760882
>simply so you can experience some sort of surreal entertainment and whatever “magical” experiences one can get out of boredom and dissatisfaction with one’s day-to-day life
so the stories about pajeets chasing celestial bob and vagene were cautionary tales?

Bump

So why would people who have reached some higher level of consciousness, astral projected, etc. spend their time posting on 4chan?

>>20757927

>>20779039
Who gives a shit about Jung, he didn't know what he was talking about.

>>20780640
why would they not
and how do you know anons have

>>20780702
According to you?

>>20779100
It's called Foundations of Inner Alchemy.

>>20780772
I can't seem to find it anywhere. Thanks, though.

>>20780640
i think about this too.
ultimately 4chan is a cave itself, but a cave where many people have the potential and yearning to genuinely step out.
So do you leave it completely for yourself, or stay half in to commune with other like-minded people you can both teach and learn from?

>>20780726
Yes, because I read actual initiates of Hermetic alchemy, and none of them recommend/agree with or mention Jung, because he doesn't know what he's talking about.

>>20767756
is this because guiding people towards enlightenment is the only way to genuinely help? it's still hard to swallow in a lot of hypothetical situations.
i need the superpowered copium boss

>>20780841
>actual initiates of Hermetic alchemy,
Pfff

>>20780864
Well then stay ignorant, keep reading Jung thinking you'll create a solar body of light or do anything other than give yourself a mental illness and waste your time.

>>20780881
There are no hermetic initiates that were alive in the 20th century.

>>20757927
Ok, from all of my experience on /x/ and studying the occult, here are some books I would recommend.
>Kybalion
>Reality Transurfing
>Chicken Qabblah
>CIA docs on ESP and Remote Viewing
>Quran
>Biblical Apocrypha (including nag hammadi library, gospel of judas, and dead sea scrolls)
>Tao of Physics
>CCRU
>Sorcery- J finley hurley
The above are all things beginners can get into, and they will open the doors to explore further into each of their sections, of course with there being some overlap.
Just as a clear precaution however, I will warn against readily accepting four main doctrines that you will encounter on your /x/ journey.
>buddhism
>gnosticism
>paganism
>taoism
Look into consciousness, look into immateriality and idealism, and while the 4 above can be somewhat enlightening at times, I would urge against using them as a firm metric to compare other belief systems.

>>20780898
Stay ignorant.

>>20780945
I accept your concession, retarded larper.

>>20780799
https://www.amazon.com/Foundations-Internal-Alchemy-Taoist-Practice/dp/0984308253/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?crid=2A107XXQVVLG6&keywords=foundations+of+inner+alchemy&qid=1659551413&sprefix=foundations+of+inner+alchemy%2Caps%2C81&sr=8-4

>>20780918
Hard dualistic strands of gnosticism are the way

>>20780841
>I read actual initiates of Hermetic alchemy
Which books?

>>20763400
>Castaneda
Showman.

>>20773598
life is a bit stretch if you're starting from a secular, atheistic position.

>>20781458
nah, science man told me we started from a spontaneous atom that spontaneously did some actions
i believe him

>>20778536
Is this a good book? Post what did you think about it.

>>20781440
He was right anyway

>>20781481
It's the best I've read in a while. If you've read Plato and Plotinus and have knowledge of alchemy/hermeticism, Uzdavinys presents all that together with its source/connection in Egyptian philosophy/spirituality and describes quite beautifully the inner process of transformation and approximation to the One as the ancients saw it. For a book by a modern thinker it's brilliant, mainly because it shows what a pathetic husk of empty frivolousness all modern philosophy is when compared to genuine Philosophy as the ancients understood it, which is supposed to be an active process that draws oneself closer to the divine.

>>20770438
Anything practical? I mean actual practice
Some other books itt go over this (initiation into hermetics, Evola's trilogy etc), is there some kind of equivalent for gnosticism

>>20781649
>If you've read Plato and Plotinus and have knowledge of alchemy/hermeticism
What if I only know Plato and hermeticism (classic texts)?

>>20781684
I'd say go for it. He's an excellent writer who breaks down the ideas of the different ancient sources like Plotinus in an understandable way. Plus there's a fairly extensive glossary of terms in the back.

>>20781649
>For a book by a modern thinker it's brilliant, mainly because it shows what a pathetic husk of empty frivolousness all modern philosophy is when compared to genuine Philosophy as the ancients understood it,

so it's a bunch of eisegetical bulllshit where the author gets high on the tenuous parallels he draws from skim reading comparative religion?

>>20781812
Not at all. It's incredibly in depth and well researched by a man who obviously knows his stuff. He just happens to have no delusions about the state of modern philosophy where you'll only find reductionism, atomizing, and levelling of the human condition and nothing at all that seeks for transformation and transcendence.

>>20781180
>retarded larper.
>t. guy who thinks Jung holds the secrets to Hermetic alchemy

>>20781426
I've posted them here already, early on.

>>20781937
>>20781649
You've sold me on it, sounds like it's worth checking out

>>20781394
This also looks good. Hermetic alchemy is similar to nei tan, studying the latter is useful for learning the former.

>>20780707
>why would they not
Because the notion that 4chan is a place fit for such people is laughable on its face?
>and how do you know anons have
They seem to be claiming knowledge of levels of enlightenment that imply they've reached those levels. Perhaps they're just reporting what they've read or heard others say. But I'd be interested to hear from someone who, for instance, has had an experience with an otherworldly being, to hear how you can follow that up with shitposting on /lit/.

>>20764172
>Psychedelics fucked me up
Skill issue

>>20782321
>Because the notion that 4chan is a place fit for such people is laughable on its face?
The fabric of reality is made up entirely of stitches, bursting at the seams with hysterical and sublime humor. Consider how you flee in terror from anything that may make you accept this truth. Quite a funny spectacle, a grand display of buffoonery by a highly skilled clown.

>>20782321
A person who very openly talks about their “mystical experiences,” “reputed great spiritual attainment” etc. is either very unbalanced, prideful, and/or perhaps gone a little insane or at risk of becoming unbalanced and insane, or (rare case) actually a very highly developed, gifted, blessed soul who paradoxically knows enough to be able to get over false humility and place themselves in the proper position — that of the teacher, explainer, “guru” or what-you-will. But the paradox is I think if a person really is of the nature of the latter, they wouldn’t be the types to make a great show of themselves, which is the Taoist-paradox of teaching-without-teaching and the-wise-do-not-speak-and-those-who-speak-are-not-wise (but Lao Tzu is implicitly presenting his wisdom to you nonetheless).

Anyway, this aside, I think your mindset is that of the crab-in-the-bucket, the one of forced leveling, which is, “Everyone here and everyone I know and I myself are all sorta frustrated boring and bored people who haven’t had any spectacular experiences to brag of and we’re all here so if someone DID ever have such higher experiences they wouldn’t be here.” But the further paradox is that if such people DID tell you about their experiences, you and I and perhaps everyone would probably think them to be insane, and not treat them with the worthy respect, view it as something to tear down, nitpick, find holes in, criticize, scoff at, jeer at, mock, etc. For instance, skeptical atheists and agnostics thinking them insane, and more fervent religionists thinking them “demonically inspired,” “dangerous occultists,” etc. And furthermore, as a self-fulfilling prophecy, due to this very probability of such a reaction, such wise people would wisely choose to therefore probably not talk about their experiences so openly on places like this, as it would be like “throwing pearls before swine.”

But does “the hypothetical Mysterious Stranger and Outsider who has the vice of browsing 4channel in his/her free time out of boredom and is secretly a [freelance Nagual shaman/enlightened and empowered siddhayogi/Zen master/Taoist sage/Sufi Arif (“knower”) or Abdal (“changed one”)/pious Hasidic Zaddik/humble Christian saint and mystic who has felt the presence of archangels and experienced spiritual gifts such as of occasional clairvoyance/predicting of the future/prophesying, great ecstatic expanding insights in consciousness, knowing things without rationally knowing how they could’ve known them and so forth] exist? How do we know if we’re not omniscient?

La Clef des Songes, Grothendieck

>>20757927
Look into kaballah and shit like seypher ha razeem, commentaries on grimwares andlearn some ancient languages and a few mid toungs, astrology and astronomy, high school science should be enough but collegiate phych and ponder how to negotiate with a being that considers yo an ant, mind the spelling im lazu

>>20779133
Grammer comes and grammer goes, understanding is eternal

>>20758096
We're in the outer layers already

>>20782710
Did you actually read it? There exists a Spanish translation and was thinking about reading it.

>>20782394
Well, aren't you just making a whole flurry of assumptions.

This book sucks so far. I'm at chapter 5. Perhaps after reading so much Guenon and Evola, regular occultism is just lame, vague, too LARP-ish, etc.. Maybe once he starts talking about le modern lords of the lhp it will get interesting, but I'm guessing it will just be an exposition on retarded edgelords like Michael Aquino or god-damned Levay who is even worse, while not actually explaining anything in detail or with precision.

Also the definition of left hand path is kind of meaningless when applied to actual esoteric Traditions (i.e., not occultism), as he sort of points out in the book while examining the ancients. Dry vs. wet is much more descriptive and accurate, this lhp/rhp split seems to be a construct of modern LARPers, I don't even see the point to it really.

I lost my FAITH in science.

>>20780640
4cchan is very near the supraconscious

I just had a nightmare that I could only describe as a glimpse into pure evil. Just utterly depraved and as far removed from light as possible, to the extent that I'm disgusted with myself for being able to dream something like this, and scared of what it implies.
Assuming dreams have significance, what could this mean?

>>20773598
this, Leucippus told me it was just do to random collisions

>>20783345
depends. sometimes elements in your dreams are innocuously warped.
I helped two spiders get outside one day, then that night i dreamt of two that were fairly larger. one I decapitated and the other transformed with a head of a man, then became some weird version of Doc Oct.
I'd say it could of been an abstract projection of me dealing with my aprehension and general uneasiness around them. But maybe not

Not sure if I astral projected or if I was still in my mind/dreaming (both take place on the "astral plane", I've read, but what I mean is how do I know if I was constructing it in my mind or if I was actually there). There have been a few times where I am resting or falling asleep, suddenly I will be walking around my apartment, on occasion I will be fully lucid/conscious and do things willfully, before shortly waking up. It usually seems kind of cloudy though, not as "real" as waking consciousness. Thoughts?

>>20769093
Jung? Refuted by being an effeminate navel-gazing pussy.

>>20783974
Astral projection doesn’t exists, it is a 20th century invention.

>>20760369
I’m with this anon because at least he isn’t a nigger in his soul like you other pathetic losers.

Maybe if you stopped and read your own posts you’d feel the shame your emotionally unavailable parents were supposed to instill in you.

Be noble anon like this fellow says. Your cheap shots make you look worse than you think.

>>20757927
>esoteric wizard
Jung

>>20760249
feral cats are based tho

anyone doing meditation practice from the mind illuminated?
what is the significance of feeling like ballooning or feeling bigger than your body? it's not an awareness of subtle body is it? how can that happen to a pleb like me

>>20784522
medieval Indian and Tibetan texts talk about the temporary transference of ones consciousness or subtle body into the body or corpse of another person or animal

Bump

>>20785254
And that’s completely different to astral projection.

>>20785271
"Astral projection" is just another name for "lucid dreaming" which is as ancient as time.
>>20785254
No need to be so oddly specific, they have "lucid dreaming" too explicitly which is just "astral projection" conciousness tranference is a bit different but related.

>>20785285
Lucid dreaming is even in Aristotle

>>20760989
>You're right, but there is nothing you nor I could do about it, you are talking about mental institution tier people, these people are golems with bad luck, if people go crazy they go crazy, you're trying to create fear
Idk Im about the most stable, emotionally reliant and we'll put together person I know and after dabbling in mysticism I entered an incredibly intense psychosis that could have lead to a very bad place. I came out a much better person but still I would recommend anyone to have caution.

>>20759462
Wtf wasn't it 30? Why 37?

>>20780672
I wish I had this book when I was in college. Maybe I would have become a real programmer.

>>20767756
>>20763292
>>20761413
>>20761386
Do you have a discord, anon? I need to talk to you privately about something.

>>20782374
Not him, but I don't see what possible skill could've allowed me to avoid mania and psychosis. Maybe I could've avoided doing the acts I did. Maybe.