/lit/ - Literature

He was always crazy

>>20719197
/thread

>>20719197
>he lectures in a cape

>>20719188
His behavior is hostile during interviews as well. Just take a look at how he replies to this guy: https://youtu.be/7IN7bR_z4Kw?t=96

"Yeah..."
"NO, NOT 'YEAH'!"

I dislike trannies as much as the next guy but come on. He sounds unhinged.

yeah this guy's unbasedly fucked up

>>20719229
Somewhere along the line he became a megalomaniac who stopped checking himself and his own opinions. He has a God complex now and thinks he knows everything

At this point I doubt even Rogan want to have him on a podcast lmao

The benzos and the experimental 19th century eastern european rehab melted his brain, you're seeing and hearing a real life zombie

>>20719188
Anyone who has an opinion on Peterson is pathetic.

>>20719273
you have an opinion on him by proxy :D

>>20719197
>2013
Woah

>>20719280
It'll be 10 years old by 2023.

>>20719197
>>20719212
Thank you so much for this revelation, that’s hysterical

>>20719188
>ALWAYS boils down to "muh postmodernism", "muh neomarxism", "muh environmentalism", "muh wokeness"
It's right though

>>20719247
>experimental 19th century eastern european rehab
honestly what the fuck did they do to him in Russia?
memes aside I always thought of him as a quack, his book makes a lot of silly assumptions about the reader, probably because he was out of touch with youth except for upper class college-going Americans who literally have zero real problems.
then he said some mildly unwoke things about pronouns and trannies did what trannies do best and judging by this thread they're still seething even though he's no longer a threat by any means

>>20719298
it really isn't when you can't actually substantiate your points.
I'm right wing and Marx and Weber unironically have some of the most profound social theories in existence. Marx in particular has read a lot more than that 10 page summary of Das Kapital you and Peterson once read.

>>20719333
I meant to say Marx in particular has witten a lot more*

>>20719325
>honestly what the fuck did they do to him in Russia?
Serbia, no?

>>20719343
He went to Russia for the treatment where they put him in a medical coma and basically fried his brain then he went to Serbia to recuperate from that.

>>20719333
>I'm right wing and
>>>/r/asablackman
kill yourself kike

>>20719188
Not reading Marx makes him based. He should read Hitler instead, but he won't, because he's a tool of the jew all the same.

>>20719333
There doesn't exist a real Marxist in the 21st century so what's the point in talking about it? Once I hear some lefties talking about Jewish niggers and how women's rights don't matter then I will take Marx seriously. For now the left is as Peterson says "wokeness and postmodernism"

>heh, bucko, you shouldn't lop your tits off, it's unnatural
>gets hair implants
Was it all a life long satirical performance?

>>20719348
what the fuck. those Russians shouldn't be trusted. do you know they systematically rape their soldiers to make them stronger?

>>20719361
I doubt they do it to make them stronger, it's just that your average Russkie can't control himself and they're powerless to stop them so they just incorporated it into their program

>>20719356
the point in talking about it is because Peterson can't stop talking about it despite not seeming to know what any of these people's theories are actually about

>>20719348
It wasn't the coma, it was the akathisia that gave him PTSD.

>>20719377
The akathisia (didn't know it was that specifically) was probably secondary to whatever treatment he was on

Remember, the more they push back against reasonable people, the more they threatened by him. Not everything Peterson says is worthwhile, but much of it is. Don't be tempted to throw out the good with the bad. That is exactly what they want.

>>20719372
He doesn't care about 19th century economic socialism which isn't relevant in the modern day. This is the problem with leftypol retarded types. Peterson is talking about the state of the left today and leftypol types are talking about 19th century economic theory. Like haha Peterson dumb doesn't know Das Kapital. You know who else doesn't know Das Kapital? Every modern leftist on college campuses.

>>20719384
He was put under specifically so that he didn't kill himself as a result of his nervous system issues.

>>20719398
>Not everything Peterson says is worthwhile, but much of it is
Only to fatherless, socially atomized loners. That's my gripe with both his fans and his detractors: absolutely nothing he says is new or interesting in any way, shape or form but people are still so ridiculously polarized on him

>>20719414
>Only to fatherless, socially atomized loners.
To everyone really. The Nihilism of the modern day affects everyone.

>>20719403
>He doesn't care about 19th century economic socialism which isn't relevant in the modern day.
then why does he keep talking about it?
It's Peterson who keeps sperging out about Marx, not his opponents.

>>20719229
christ hes actually psycho

>>20719419
If you need someone to tell you to clean your room you've got bigger problems than cultural marxism

>>20719414
One of the last bastions of conservatism, then. What's next would be something more specifically tailored to counter the jewish threat du jour.

>>20719428
He talking about Cultural Marxism which is a long topic for another thread. That's the problem. People talking about Economic Marxism when he is talking about Cultural

>>20719437
You must not go out much because lots of people have dirty rooms especially women who are disgusting

>>20719229
>>20719197
WATCH THIS. ILL PROVE TO YOU WHY PETERSON IS A JOKE IN 5 SECONDS. I TIMESTAMPED IT. WATCH 1 MIN

https://youtu.be/7IN7bR_z4Kw?t=480

Peterson here says he doesn't know if he personally would ban trans surgery for adults "because it is not clear that is has been a net social good".
The implications of this completely go against his own beliefs. His claim to fame was literally about freedom of speech - the freedom to say and do whatever you like without harming somebody else. The government can not tell you what to do or think where it shouldn't. Well here Peterson is saying he might ban surgeries simply because he believes anything needs to have a "net positive outcome".
That's about as authoritarian an argument as you can make.

>>20719442
Yes, and?
I'm saying that if you need someone to tell you to clean your room you're basically retarded

>>20719437
You're purposefully excluding the remaining 90% of his thought, you are a liar. Impose order on the area you have the most control over. That for young men will be their bedroom, eventually an apartment. You present it falsely as 'lel, dirty room man'. This is precisely why people hate your kind.

>>20719439
the thing is that cultural marxism doesn't mean anything. It's a meaningless term. It means what Peterson wants it to mean at some point -> wokeness and leftypol retardedness.

That has nothing to do with Marx. Peterson just uses that to give his ramblings an intellectual flair.
actual cultural Marxism comes from the Frankfurter Schüle which Peterson has not read

>>20719460
Dilate, now

>>20719473
That is not an argument, madam.

>>20719466
Things make greater sense when you substite Cultural Marxist or Post-Modernist with jews. Everything he says reflects this. But to name them is to destroy him.

>>20719229
Are we operating in different universes? I don’t understand what’s incoherent here. Peterson rejects that human nature is fixed, pointing out that it is malleable and that our policies are influencing people to make bad choices. He then expounds upon the uglier side of crowd psychology to point out that there will be dangerous unintended consequences. He gets a bit uppity with Kulinski in the beginning, but rightfully so, because Kulinski was operating unscientifically but pretending to be scientific, as if he knew that every trans person was destined to become who they were regardless of our input (when he has no access to the control group—a common problem with social sciences).

>>20719188
>Unironically how did he lose his IQ? Was it the benzos?
Beyond any shadow of a doubt, all pillheads turn into retards permanently, and science agrees:
>In an attempt to settle this debate, meta-analyses of peer-reviewed studies were conducted and found that cognitive dysfunction did in fact occur in patients treated long term with benzodiazepines, and although cognitive dysfunction improved after benzodiazepines were withdrawn, patients did not return to levels of functioning that matched benzodiazepine-free controls.

>>20719197
The (giant) door to that room is literally directly in front of the podium and the lecture hall has a sign that lights up on the door that says "LECTURE IN PROGRESS." Also, that room was built with two entrances so people could come in late without disturbing. The people walking in early are retarded. (Also, Peterson didn't lecture from notes so it would be hard for him to trash a podium).

>>20719490
that guy and OP are talking about his attitude and how he has a god-complex tier condescending tone (and even video production) lately

>>20719456
Guess most people are retarded

>>20719466
It comes from Marxists who wanted a way to bring about the revolution from a different way. Marx was not woke but he still wanted to break down society.

>>20719197
>2013
>not even post-fame slander
Perfect.

>>20719500
Maybe? I never liked Peterson when he went outside of his knowledge base. I think his postmodern neo-Marxist label was so sloppy that it provided cover for the Cathedral. But that linked video with Kulinski is just Peterson lecturing an arrogant retard within his field of expertise. A bunch of people replied and thought it was evidence of Peterson going insane when, to me, it seemed pretty tame. If Peterson is articulating his point forcefully, well, doesn’t he have the right, given the fact that it’s about psychology and he’s a professor of psychology? These days, people will call confident people they don’t like narcissists for daring to speak up. It’s kind of a sickening inversion of morality, a way of weaponizing weakness, and reminds me of Nietzsche’s critique of the Last Man.

>>20719541
He acts unbelievably unpleasant in that video, but maybe that's just how people act nowadays especially on line

>>207194

>>20719541
>>20719455

>>20719541
>These days, people will call confident people they don’t like narcissists for daring to speak up.
Peterson used to be a confident guy who dared to speak up. Now he is just a narcissist.

>>20719353
He talked about Hitler's Table Talk in class and even referenced it on television interviews and podcasts several times. That book is more controversial than Mein Kampf.

>>20719565
When he speaks, he carries the weight of his frustration through his confidence. It can be unpleasant because the subject matter evokes strong emotions. Go watch Oprah or Ellen if you need pleasant conversations.

>>20719565
I think he's abit unhinged at this point after being consistently treated like shit by roughly half the people he meets

>>20719243
That's how successful psychotics function, they organize cults of personality.

>>20719455
The doctor that does the surgery is harming someone else.

>>20719948
A doctor (or psychiatrist) who gets his patient life-threateningly addicted to benzos is also harming someone. No JP kid follower can survive any argument ever since it came out that JP is a hypocritical junkie.

>>20719188
>I REFUSE to believe he has actually read Habermas, Marx, Weber or any of the other founding fathers of sociology.
he didn't, watch his "debate" with Zizek, he admited openly that he didn't read Marx's "Das Capital", only the communist manifesto

>>20720000
Who cares? Marx’s early works are far more interesting, philosophically speaking, than his later works.

>>20719188
Mom it's my turn to post this next time

>>20720010
You seriously think JP has read or would even understand The Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the State or The German Ideology. The dude was barely able to understand nuanced parts of TCM which was specifically written for retarded French communists.

>>20719506
yes, most people are retarded, this is why democracy for example is so dangerous because it gives power to the masses to elect tyrannical leaders.
the point is that great minds generally arent so popular because the masses cant even comprehend them. this guy is so appealing because he caters to the lowest common denominator who havent even read any actual philosopher, much less even know what that is

>>20720030
Not the guy you're talking to but JP doesn't really critique Marx as much as he critiques Marxists. You don't need to understand Hegel to understand Marxists

>>20720030
Tell me why that matters. What does Peterson leave out?

>>20720067
Why does that mean he isn't helpful to masses? Is it better to keep a dirty room?

>>20720069
>You don't need to understand Hegel to understand Marxists
You wanna know how I know you've never read one of these "Marxists"? That's a patently ridiculous thing to say, you absolute moron.

>>20720076
because self help gurus like this are appealing to the masses who care about such frivolous topics like ones room tidiness

>>20719455
The ethical obligations of a doctor are different than freedom of speech. If you went to a doctor and asked him to cut off your arm our cut out your heart that would also be illegal because they have an ethical obligation to not harm you. Therefore the proper standard of whether genital mutilation surgery should be permitted or not is a question of whether there are any benefits that would outweigh the obvious harm.

>>20720080
You don't need to read Gobineau to look at the gas chambers and realize something substantive about Nazi's.

>>20720080
It’s actually pretty reasonable if you’re not an autistic scholar. I doubt Lenin and Mao understood Hegel well. And I know for a fact that Stalin didn’t understand Hegel and condemned him as a bourgeois philosopher. Hegel is only interesting for understanding the genealogy of ideas and MAYBE making extremely high level critiques of history, politics, etc., that would go over most people’s heads if they’re not erudite and philosophically trained.

>>20720073
What do you mean "leave out"? He admitted in the debate that he hadn't ever actually read Marx's important work, yet he built his career on criticizing "neo-Marxists". He admitted, basically, that the thing that made him famous was vapid charlatanism: claiming knowledge about something he never studied. He couldn't even specify any names of American academics who were Marxists, even with Zizek giving him the freebees of Jameson & Wolff. I don't think I understand your question, though

>>20720083
He isn't much a self help guru more trying to mend the harm of Nihilism which plagues our society. He doesn't want a clean room for the sake of a clean room. It's much deeper.

>>20719993
>A doctor (or psychiatrist) who gets his patient life-threateningly addicted to benzos is also harming someone
Yes, maybe we should ban benzos. I'm not sure but maybe.

>"chemically castrating children is bad"
>YOU FUCKING NAZI DIE FUCKING DIE YOU OLD WHITE MAN
>FUCKING JEWISH SHILL HURR DURR READ THE KIKE BIBLE YET ETHNONATIONALISM IS SATANIC OR WHATEVER

Curious.

>>20720091
strangely irrelevant reference. can you tell me who are the Marxists he's "critiqued"? He calls Foucault & Derrida neo-Marxists, which neither of them would have accepted as a label, and he clearly misreads or neglects reading at all.
>>20720095
>if you’re not an autistic scholar.
Have you spent any time at all around academics or in university?
>only interesting for understanding the genealogy of ideas
So he's only interesting in that he's an irreplaceable cog in the history of Western philosophy and undeniably influential on all social & political philosophy that follows him? Yeah, who'd need to study that?

>>20720099
>he hadn't ever actually read Marx's important work
Many Marxists haven’t read Capital. And I’d say its his least important work. Everybody knows that an economic system based on infinite growth likely can’t continue on forever. In accordance with the spirit of historical materialism, Marx himself thought that he was rather replaceable when it comes to critiquing capitalism. What captures people’s imaginations today is his moralistic, political work, where he unintentionally conveys a sort of hidden idealism while couching it in scientific terms, and that’s best exemplified in TCM. You don’t need to be a scholar to joust with the Marxist spirit.

I think Peterson did fine here. My only problem with him is that Marxism is dead so he jousted with ghosts from 50 years ago. Whoever replaced the Marxists are way more cringeworthy and dangerous for Western civilization.

>>20720107
>mend the harm of Nihilism which plagues our society
& the best approach to this is chastising hysterical obese women with asymmetrical hair cuts & crying about the decline in childrens' cartoons?

>>20720133
>So he's only interesting in that he's an irreplaceable cog in the history of Western philosophy and undeniably influential on all social & political philosophy that follows him? Yeah, who'd need to study that?
I’m just telling you that the juice likely isn’t worth the squeeze. Yet you can still say meaningful things about politics, history, etc., without ever having read Hegel. And you can easily study Marxists without reading Hegel because most “world-historical” (heh) Marxists haven’t read Hegel either.

>>20719188
This is the fate of anyone who uses the term "cultural Marxists" unironically.

>>20720133
>can you tell me who are the Marxists he's "critiqued"?
This would take an entire thread to go over quote by quote. Don't play dumb. The whole point of this going back to Gramsci is stealth. You don't go "hey I'm a Marxist trying to overthrow society" that would be retarded. So going "hey look this guy calls him a liberal argument over" is retarded. Postmodernism plays it's part in moving away from Marxism even though if we were to spend time going over you wouldn't doubt the obvious Marxist and revolutionary influence on them

>>20720134
But TCM was a pamphlet produced for a popular audience that he didn't even want to write. If you're identifying yourself as a scholar you need to read scholarly-level works. Even if he doesn't want to read the bland sociological/economic works of
Marx, he could engage with the "moralistic, political work" of people like Goldman, Landauer, Lukacs, Marcuse, Debord, or Jameson. But he doesn't mention (or I'm assuming know about) them, because he isn't willing to put the effort into doing actual humanities research.

>>20720134
>its his least important work
this is insanely untrue. The Communist Manifesto is probably at the very least, less important than capital. It's fine for most people, but someone seriously engaging with what Marx believed to have such little knowledge of his main works is embarrassing.

>>20720140
You don't seem to be wanting a good faith discussion.

>>20719532
All it really does is show that he's always made people seethe. Which... If you hadn't assumed that by now you're kind of brain dead.

>>20720147
Again, the big problem is that he admits he hasn't read the Marxists either. His definition of "post-modernism" in the debate is, I shit you not, from the first paragraph of the wikipedia article. That's where he gets his information, because he's a joke.
>>20720160
>This would take an entire thread to go over quote by quote. Don't play dumb.
lol dude, you're deflecting just like JP. show me a single video where he critiques 1 "Marxist". just fucking one, brother. then I'll concede & leave.

>>20720086
Consent negates any harm on the doctor's part, making any harm that occurs instead self-harm, which is of nobody's business. On the contrary, doctors refusing procedures arbitrarily based on their (more specifically, the king's) preferences is harmful for people that will seek a medical procedure one way or another, but will be safer and suffer less if it's done by someone skilled in medicine. Not to mention harmful to anyone that doesn't want to live under slave conditions.

The real reason doctor's have such extreme legal-ethical enforcement is one, to corrupt academia with politics and medicine is one of the highest academic fields. Two, because being experts in treating illness and injury also inevitably means becoming well-acquainted of death, and powerful families are terrified of returning to a time when doctors were callous toward death and medicines had to be tested constantly by rulers to make sure they weren't going to be assassinated by one of their enemies any time they got a cold.

>>20719414
>Only to fatherless, socially atomized loners.
And this is a bad thing how?
The reason people are polarized is because the people that hate him don't want those fatherless, socially atomized loners to have a better life. They're spiteful nasty people.

>>20720171
just tryna emulate daddy jp : - )

>>20720186
>Consent negates any harm on the doctor's part
Since fucking when

>>20719816
its pretty sad

>>20720191
JP is the only public intellectual I've seen that was willing to admit they were wrong and change their position in the middle of a conversation.

>>20720160
I don't think it is the case that Marxists hide that they want to "overthrow society". But are you super sure Gramsci is a post modernist? Are you positive you know what that term means? Are you sure you know what Gramsci's work was about?

>>20720181
>lol dude, you're deflecting just like JP. show me a single video where he critiques 1 "Marxist". just fucking one, brother. then I'll concede & leave.
I wasn't talking about JP I was talking about my own position

>>20720202
Anon that's not good faith because it doesn't allow me to feel satisfied for destroying him. Do you expect me to be content with the vague abstract notion of small progress? Fuck you.

>>20720207
I wasn't calling Gramsci postmodernist. I was saying this idea of using culture to start the revolution which goes back to Gramsci

>>20720202
And then go back to his original beliefs when he's interviewed by someone with a different ideological viewpoint? There's a difference between good faith & sr8 up cowardice.
>>20720208
What do you mean? Following the conversation we were talking about JP "critiquing" Marxists. I don't know where your "position" (on what?) comes into play...

>>20720220
>And then go back to his original beliefs when he's interviewed by someone with a different ideological viewpoint? There's a difference between good faith & sr8 up cowardice.
Do you have any evidence of this?

>>20720193
It's the definition you statist creep.

>>20720224
Nah, but again, I'm just emulating jp : - ) just "feels" like something he'd do, ya dig?

>>20720213
That Gramsci and some marxists were interested in critiques of culture doesn't mean that anyone who ever does this agrees with marxism. And it is very clear that people make this mistake, as Peterson does, when he associates Derrida, Foucault, liberal feminist theory, etc. with Marxism.

>>20720155
Cultural Marxism is a very useful term to differentiate economic Marxism from the application of Marxist philosophy to cultural issues such as race and gender that has exploded in the past decade. Otherwise all we have are nebulous terms like woke, SJW, liberals or globohomo.

>clinical psychologist who spent decades personally helping hundreds of people severely afflicted by mental illness
>academic who published dozens of widely cited papers ranging in subjects varying from practical counseling, historical/philosophical roots of psychology, research paradigms in neurology...
>research scientist working on the operationalization of personality constructs as well as the neurobiological basis of addiction
>university professor who mentored dozens of grad students into academic, research, and counseling careers
>assisted in the development of software that increases the likelihood of at-risk students reaching graduation as a side project
>accidentally became internationally famous and ended up publishing 2 best selling books (so far) as well as organizing lectures in various countries throughout the world
Trannies, pseuds, and racists. Cope. Inb4:
>he's a drug addict tho!
>his office was messy once!
>er...you don't have a dad!
>er...wash your dick!
>his daughter is a slut!
>he likes the Jews!
>he's controlled opposition!
Seethe.

>>20720220
>What do you mean? Following the conversation we were talking about JP "critiquing" Marxists. I don't know where your "position" (on what?) comes into play...
We were talking about if you needed to read Hegel to understand Marxists and then you moved to talking about philosophers even though my whole point was you don't need to read the philosophers to understand Marxist's actions. JP is no philosopher so I don't think he's going to debate people about Derrida's work that's why I was putting my own position which is the same as his. Even Zizek himself didn't deny the concept of Postmodern Neo-Marxist. He entirely agreed with Peterson don't know why no one brings this up.

>>20720233
Get a life retard

>>20720235
>as Peterson does, when he associates Derrida, Foucault, liberal feminist theory, etc. with Marxism.
Like I said below even Zizek agreed with this Postmodern Neo-Marxist characterization just to be clear you disagree with Zizek too?

>>20719460
stop being a larper, ik who you are based on your images

>>20720246
Are there any academics that call themselves "cultural marxists"? I can name several marxist ecomists, a few marxist philosophers. but a "cultural marxist"? I don't know if anybody would refer to themselves in that way.

>>20720232
>patient is mentally is
>patient can provide consent
pick one

>>20720246
>application of Marxist philosophy to cultural issues such as race and gender that has exploded in the past decade
But that doesn't make any fucking sense. Marxism, be definition, is grounded in the supremacy of material conditions (ie class) in analyzing oppression. Using an "application of Marxist philosophy to cultural issues" is like using a thermometer to measure someone's weight. Fucking dolts all around.
>>20720248
I was talking specifically about jp, a man who has made his name (and probably considerable $$$) in "critiquing Marxists," and how he should have some degree of knowledge of the philosophic context surrounding Marx himself & those who followed. It doesn't matter for some assholes on a Croatian basket-weaving forum like us, but if he's getting big speaking fees he should at least put in a little work doing some reading about Hegel, doncha think?

>>20720264
Well isn't it a good thing then, that people don't have to accept a label for it to be accurate.
Nice attempt though, let's give it another go.

Do you deny that there are people who apply Marxist philosophy to cultural issues such as race and gender.

>>20719414
>Only to fatherless, socially atomized loners.

So like 40% of the Western population at minimum.

>>20720264
The whole point of being a Cultural Marxist is not giving yourself away. The goal is influencing the culture.

>>20720279
>I was talking specifically about jp, a man who has made his name (and probably considerable $$$) in "critiquing Marxists," and how he should have some degree of knowledge of the philosophic context surrounding Marx himself & those who followed. It doesn't matter for some assholes on a Croatian basket-weaving forum like us, but if he's getting big speaking fees he should at least put in a little work doing some reading about Hegel, doncha think?
No like I said above "You don't need to read Gobineau to look at the gas chambers and realize something substantive about Nazi's."

>>20720267
>moving the goalpost
Concession accepted.

>>20719197
>he lectures in a cape

>>20720279
>the supremacy of material conditions (ie class) in analyzing oppression.
...Yeah? What exactly about that can't be applied to race and gender. We have the attempt to change the definition of racism to "power + privilege" which is straight out of Marx' mouth. And a good example for gender is... Well gender itself. That is, the push to distinguish between the supremacy of material conditions (ie biology) in analyzing body dysphoria.

I find him pretty boring desu. Since he's a shitlib just like the progressives, he really has no argument against the current cultural radicalism other than he preferring to live in 1995 where nobody had to see trannys anywhere.

That's what all this so-called culture war nonsense boils down to, shitlibs in-fighting over what the speed of cultural change should be.

>>20720280
>who apply Marxist philosophy to cultural issues such as race and gender.
In my own experience, which is limited, people who are concerned with race & gender typically identify with movements like postcolonialism & feminism respectively. Postcolonial theorists are the really tiresome assholes in universities, not Marxists. They also have waaaay more power over curricula. In my grad program there was at least 1 or 2 postcolonial classes every semester, while there was only 1 Marxism-focused class the 3 years I was there.

>>20719541
Hi Jordan

>>20719229
Especially in his latest stuff the dude just seems like hes constantly seething, very peculiar sort of brainrot

>>20720261
I think neo-marxist is a term that is sometimes used in the literature to describe actual researchers but I don't believe that Zizek would agree with the characterization of foucault or derrida or liberal feminists as marxist or that their projects were consistent with Marxism.
I also saw the Peterson debate and my takeaway was Zizek was saying he has an idea of who Peterson was talking about (to be courteous) but that also they weren't actually marxist in any meaningful sense.
you can watch the video for yourself if you need a refresher
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsz6ijXWS3A

>>20720288
Describe exactly how the goalpost was moved.
There are myriad of examples where doctors are still not ethically pardoned by the consent of the patient. You said, and I fucking quote
>Consent negates any harm on the doctor's part
So explain how a mentally ill patient can provide effective consent.

>>20720299
Go talk about how Marx didn't care about gender and race and the goal should be economic change and see how fast you get banned/flamed from Marxist communities.

>>20720299
See >>20720294

Postcolonial is just a codeword, why are you using it :(

>>20720294
You don't seem to be reading what I'm writing. For an orthodox Marxist, the theory of historical materialism requires material conditions to be the cornerstone upon which oppression & struggle occurs. see what I said here >>20720299. it seems like you're more talking about postcolonial theorists, not "cultural marxists".

>>20720305
The kind that develops from years of dealing with spiteful nasty people.

>>20720284
okay so then it really is a conspiracy theory

>>20720308
Your initial argument was about the function, or "what", of consent. After my response you changed subject to "who" can consent with no further comment on my initial response. This is a concession. And no, I won't humor your "new" argument because you've already exposed bad faith. Eat shit IQlet.

>>20720313
>the theory of historical materialism requires material conditions to be the cornerstone upon which oppression & struggle occurs
Yup, for my first example it's slavery and discrimination. For the second example it's gender roles, specifically what they refer to as societal gender roles.

When we say cultural marxists, we are talking about the same people you mean when you say postcolonial theorists. As postcolonial theorists use at the very least a derivation of marxian philosophy.

>>20720030
He's very familiar with phenomenologists like Binswanger and Boss (he never talks about them in public though because he's a media figure now and his messages are directed towards mass audiences). The problem with the Zizek shit was he debated philosophy with a Marxist and Zizek was fairly disingenuous with the whole thing.
>where is the example of this exact type of Marxist figure defined on page 132 of paragraph 3 in Das Kapital?!
>I'm talking about cultural currents
Marxism is nebulous which lead to someone like Karl Popper using it as an example while coming up with falsificationism. It has explanatory power and useful concepts but Peterson doesn't use it as a philosophical system and references it in a broad cultural context. You can take issue with this all you want but it doesn't subtract from the actual points he makes which are rooted in his understanding of psychology and history. With how far this tranny shit has gone and the fact Trudeau had no problem enacting dictatorial powers over a peaceful protest--he's a better public figure than we deserve.

>>20720310
lmao, cuz they don't actually read Marx either. Dude loved using the word nigger & if you read his "On the Jewish Question" he got pretty tired of being around Jews.
>>20720312
No it's not. Have you ever spent time in an academic department? or are you just a neet larping as an independent scholar?

>>20720306
The whole point is the union between the two. Some lean more postmodern than Marxist. Arguing about one thinker is moving away from the point that these two groups want revolutionary change in society and have similar influences.

>>20720323
The who is part n parcel of the function, or "what", of consent. There is no new argument.
>consent always absolved responsibility
>what about those who cannot consent
Literally zero goalpost moving, you fail.

>>20720320
No it's more like an Ethnopluralist saying I'm not a Nazi I'm an Ethnopluralist!

>>20720331
>No it's not. Have you ever spent time in an academic department? or are you just a neet larping as an independent scholar?
I've listened to academics. Maybe your problem is that you've spent time in an academic department. You're too blinded by the irrelevant politics that you can't see the bigger picture. You're literally so blinded that you cannot see the marxist influence in every corner of the room.

>>20720326
>As postcolonial theorists use at the very least a derivation of marxian philosophy.
There's absolutely no way you can justify this. Postcolonial theorists & deconstructionists absolutely pulverized Marxism's place in academia in the 80s & 90s. It's completely incompatible. But I give up; time to stop posting. If you want to take that as victory, go ahead.

>>20719229
One of those people advocates child castration but Peterson is the psycho? Is he supposed to be respectful and courteous to these types?
>I may ruin the genitals of children, but at least I'm not rude!

>>20720344
>There's absolutely no way you can justify this.
Yup, see >>20720326

>Postcolonial theorists & deconstructionists absolutely pulverized Marxism's place in academia in the 80s & 90s.
Hmmmmmm, indeed. That's a head scratcher. A true noggle joggler. Absolutely bogglin the obogogbogogbo.

Because as we all know, everything new is completely unique and was manifested into reality from the primordial chaos and is in no way connected to anything that came before it.

What win, you're not even trying.
>it's completely incompatible
>refuses to address the compatibilities that have been pointed out
Literally just address this, like holy shit.

>>20720326
>As postcolonial theorists use at the very least a derivation of marxian philosophy.

Some of it are derivations, but something being influenced by something doesn't mean it is that something. Literally all philosophy after Marx is influenced by Marx, it's literally impossible not to if you remotely care about philosophy at all.

>>20720333
>The who is part n parcel of the function, or "what". There is no new argument.
By definition it is not, if it were, you wouldn't be asking who can consent. As the who would already be known in the meaning, "consent". You fucking tard. :^)

>>20720264
There's not any. It's just another non-sensical dogwhistle by right-wing retards that don't even understand basic definitions.

>>20720378
>but something being influenced by something doesn't mean it is that something. Literally all philosophy after Marx is influenced by Marx, it's literally impossible not to if you remotely care about philosophy at all.
At least make it hard for me to unmask you, my dude.

>>20720382
t. Cultural Marxist

>>20720387
What does this mean? Even Nietzsche read Marx moron, that doesn't make Nietzsche a Marxist.

>>20720381
My original contention was literally based on the idea that no everyone is capable of consent. Why the fuck else would I have a problem with the idea that so long as a doctor receives consent then they are absolved of responsibility.
>As the who would already be known in the meaning, "consent".
W R O N G
We were talking about trans people, ie the mentally ill. So to say in response to this conversation
>Consent negates any harm on the doctor's part
Necessarily means you do not understand that the mentally ill cannot consent.

>>20720394
Shut up chud, you have to let the people you hate define the language you use. That's what science and logic is all about

>>20720402
There's a difference between a philosophy that acknowledges the existence of marxist maxims as a matter of exploration and a philosophy that literally uses marxist maxims wholly unmodified from what marx himself wrote.

>>20720404
If for example the ability to consent is included with the meaning of the word consent, then it was already expressed in the phrase "Consent negates any harm on the doctor's part" that the consenter can consent. If it's not, then you conceded 2 posts ago and are being disingenuous out of butthurt. The out you're desperately trying to semantically make for yourself isn't even a real one. You cannot defend >>20720193. Take the L already. And no, I'm still not going to argue the criteria for consent with a dishonest dumbass like you.

>>20720449
>If for example the ability to consent is included with the meaning of the word consent
This is negated by the topic of the conversation. That is to say, you demonstrated your lack of understanding of the word and my "argument" was to gauge exactly what in the flying fuck was going on in your head.

It's always so weird when anons do that btw, the
>I can't think of a way to counter my point, so neither can you, therefore if you don't agree with me then you concede
Like honestly the balls it takes to be that stupid.

>>20720427
Post-colonialism is literally the purest distillation of "We steal Marxist pathos, but none of the logos", e.g it uses all of its oppressor/oppressed rhetoric, but none of the actual materialist analysis. Therefore I agree that it has been influenced by Marxism, but that doesn't make it Marxist, because Marxism requires that you think material relations dictate what society(and oppression itself) looks like and not whatever ideas people have floating in their heads.

>>20720467
>Post-colonialism is literally the purest distillation of "We steal Marxist pathos, but none of the logos", e.g it uses all of its oppressor/oppressed rhetoric
>but that doesn't make it Marxist
Here's a riddle for you. What came first, the egg that walked talked and acted like a chicken or the chicken that walk talked and acted like the egg.

>>20719351
and >>>/reddit/ to you

>>20720473
You're a retard bro. Hegel used master and slave, oppressor and oppressed 100 years before Marx was alive.

Read a book for once in your life.

>>20720484
Two things being similar does not mean two things being exactly the same aren't two things being exactly the same.
Weirdly enough the only way you could even think to use that kind of fallacy is if you've read too many books.
Try touching grass?

>>20720503
Can't believe I wasted my time on a 15 year old troll.

People want to argue all day about meaningless definitions even though we could get to a point where neither side disagrees. Why not talk about the important part of JP which is how do we deal with the Nihilism that plagues our society? That's the important question

>>20720509
Donny kaiser wants her crown back

>>20720464
>This is negated by the topic of the conversation
No it isn't. I won't let you move the goalpost to a discussion on who can consent, so now you're trying to assume who can consent unprompted, and that it excludes whoever I'm talking about, in a conversation that never concerned non-consenters in the first place. Finally, proceeding into a strawman argument to boot. Imagine throwing a tantrum this big over getting called out on being intellectually dishonest on 4chan. Embarrassing.

>>20720513
We don't talk about it because the answer is quite unpleasant.

>>20720521
What is it?

>>20720518
>strawman argument
When you can't even analyze your own posts, you should probably take a step back.

>>20720524
War.

>post modern neo-marxists don't exist you dingus
I have so much gratitude for the ones that opened my eyes to that. It was just a matter of me recognizing the inherent contradiction of terms for my unhinged professor of "sociology of justice"(literal translation, don't know the correspondent term for the class in English) that would gush about Foucault while doing sporadic propaganda for her favorite Marxist political party to just puff out of existence and stop doing target harassment of right-wing students. It was so nice that the students did not have to do a administrative appeal to get their correct grade. And in the end it solved the problem of her having tenure/having influence in the department and not being able to be let go of her position.
Thank god for the lefty youtuber that foiled that hags plan.

>>20720513
The nihilism that plagues our society comes from the liberalism that JP himself believes in. Liberalism demands that people suspend their belief in their values so the public square can be conflict-free enough to engage in commerce and trade, but the sociological effect of this is that you get materially well-off people with no value system beyond hedonic consumerism and self-medication.

>>20720532
I don't think the Ukrainians or Russians are going to be free from Nihilism when the war ends

>>20719212
C'mon, man... Leave capes out of this.

>>20720539
His value system is religion not liberalism. What do postmodernists have to help you?

>>20720541
But did you notice how hope and optimism bloomed after WW2? Humans can't subsist on happiness. We normalize it and become dull to it. Only by dragging ourselves through the dirt can we truly appreciate a well paved street.

>>20720550
For a very short time because of the increase of wealth and admittedly died

>>20720529
>no u
Concession accepted. Kicking around a pathological liar on /lit/ sure is refreshing.

>>20719276
:D

>>20720186
Trannies lack capacity to consent

>>20720547
JP is a right-wing/classica liberal bro, they worship Mammon, they don't worship religion.

>>20719188
>I REFUSE to believe he has actually read Habermas, Marx, Weber or any of the other founding fathers of sociology
He literally has not.

Back in his debate with Slavoj Zizek, he admitted that he only read the communist manifesto back in high school and then he read it again as preparation for the debate lmaooooo.

>/lit/sisters are actual trannies
yikes, gotta get off this board Pronto

>>20720186
>t. kike

>>20719188
Why should you get a fair argument? Why are you defending marx? You deserve a bullet

>>20720550
If they were so happy and optimistic the 50s and the 60s wouldn't have gone down the way they did.

>>20719948
>>20719993
That just means they're both bad

>>20720563
Where did I say anything about trannies? The post I responded to said you're ethically not allowed to have your arm amputated by a doctor. Except, you know, those times when the rich say it's okay to have your arm amputated by a doctor. :^)

>>20720598
Disinfo kike.

>>20720559
Exactly, so eventually we would need more war. It's a very simple if terrible formula.

>>20720604
Comparatively optimistic.

>>20720619
>where did I
nobody said you, the post you replied to was about trannies. idiot
did you just fucking ignore the last sentence of the post?

>>20720569
He literally adheres to religious morals. Granted he chose those morals, but that's kind of the point.

>>20720533

>>20720569
Not true.

>>20720629
You wanna get blown up so bad sign up for that Ukrainian legion

>>20720636
The post I replied to used a grossly overarching authoritarian senitment to justify his controlled opposition-induced vendetta against a fringe boogeyman demographic. I'm just pointing out the inherent malice of demanding us all to be enslaved just to own the libs.

>>20720642
>He literally adheres to religious morals.

In a conflict between individual rights and Christianity being the law of the land which of those do you think he would prefer?

>>20720658
>The post I replied to used a grossly overarching authoritarian senitment to justify his controlled opposition-induced vendetta against a fringe boogeyman demographic. I'm just pointing out the inherent malice of demanding us all to be enslaved just to own the libs

>>20719188
Yeah, you're not wrong but can we stop talking about him already?

>I REFUSE to believe he has actually read Habermas, Marx, Weber
Yeah, this is definitely weird. It's really, really obvious to anyone who reads theory at all that he has no idea what he is talking about. Even I, a dumbass who just reads theory, not a scholar or anything, can clearly see that he has no idea what he's talking about when he speaks on Foucault or Derrida or whatever. It's like he hasn't even read wikipedia articles about them. Yet people (pseuds) consider him to be some brilliant thinker. If you think Peterson is smart it immediately outs you as someone who doesn't read at all. There is certainly a critique to be made of academic theoretical writing in the humanities but his engagement with it is so superficial and stupid I get secondhand embarrassment just listening to him speak on it.

>>20720700
Go die fighting russia already glowie

>>20720264
Kill yourself

>>20720513
Nihilism comes from atheism, although none of you will admit it.

>>20720728
Does 2+2=4 too, Einstein?

>>20720707

>>20720246
>cultural marxism
It's really obvious from your post that you know nothing about marxist theory or academic writing more broadly. The term "cultural marxism" is not used in academic writing. It is a dog whistle for an anti-semetic conspiracy theory. Maybe you are anti-semetic and this doesn't bother you. I am not trying to change your mind on that point. The point anon you replied to was making was to indicate Peterson's archive (or lack thereof). He is not familiar at all with the writers he so often "critiques" and he, actually unwittingly if you can believe it, used the term "cultural marxism" which is not an academic term but a term coined by racist conspiracy theorists. It shows where he's getting his information, his lack of literacy on the topic and outs him as a pseud.

>>20720698
Individual rights, as prescribed by the christian morals he subscribes to.
>inb4 all christianity is orthodoxy
Yes, everyone knows separate denominations of christianity pick and choose what morals they like and dont like.
No, that doesn't change the fact that they are christian morals.

>>20720760
>cultural marxism is an anti-semetic conspiracy theory
Gotta admit I haven't seen one of you kooks in the wild yet. What a sight.

>>20720818
>Individual rights, as prescribed by the christian morals he subscribes to.

Individual rights aren't Christian, they were invented by liberal philosophers in the late 17th, early 18th century.

>>20720835
Christianity prescribes several individual rights. As they have existed in humanity forever, it's only natural that religions have sprinkles of them.
>they were invented by liberal philosophers in the late 17th, early 18th century.
>invented
They were defined and explored
What absolute stupidity is this notion that the concept of individual rights simply didn't exist before it was invented.

>>20720842
>They were defined and explored

No they weren't. They were invented by them specifically using thought experiments about a state of nature and social contract theory, which no philosophers before them had articulated in this way before.

And besides, even if you could trace certain aspects of liberalism to Christianity, liberalism itself has completed supplanted those roots to such an extent that the only real morality that exists in our society is consent, which is ABSOLUTELY not Christian.

Christians are subversives just like jews and WILL be purged in the emergence of a free and moral civilization.

>>20720895
How do you have morality without God?

>>20720937
If there is a God, then anything is permitted

>>20720943
Sure if you want to burn in agony for all eternity.

He was always a low iq grifter. You should watch his “””debate””” with Zizek.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qsHJ3LvUWTs

In any case, it should have been blatantly obvious that the man was full of shit the second you learned of his Benzo addiction. His entire philosophy revolves around “cleaning your room”, i.e. taking care of your own personal problems before trying to fix the world. Your words mean nothing if you contradict them with your actions.

>>20720957
He's not a grifter. Grifting implies you don't believe a word you're saying just for money's sake, it's quite clear that Peterson believes every dumb word he says.

>>20720946
Don't worry you'll be burning in agony under real-world torment soon enough.

>>20720895
Lol. Lmao.

>>20720971
You niggas been saying that for how long

>>20720943
Obviously not.

>>20720988
Clearly not long enough, as the list of christian expulsions needs to get a lot longer.

>>20720971
Persecuting the religious, especially Christians, gives them more power.

>>20721005
>if you kill your enemies, they win!

>>20720967
Does he really believe in it if he doesn't even bother to live up to them?

>>20720957
>He was always a low iq grifter. You should watch his “””debate””” with Zizek.

They are all "low IQ" grifters, Zizek included.

Universities are Corporations---they are literally the "brains of the operation." Every little criticism that University profs make of any undertaking at scale is literally caused by the people they gave degrees to.

High Finance? All have degrees.
Industrial Pollution? Uni grads again!
Monsanto? Degree holders

In fact, if you look at it, the people that they DO critique, like "white supremacists" are basically people who...don't have university degrees.

It's all just a big feudal racket---they're the equivalent of priests who won't admit they're priests, and blame everyone but themselves for the problems the world faces.

The Church would at least have told you "the Church is the way, my son, you must comply..." University Professors are often shame-faced about admitting "you must simply do what we tell you...otherwise you will not succeed in the system that WE BUILT and WE MAINTAIN!"

Instead they try to naturalize a world in which you cant even fucking cut hair without applying for a permit run by some Deputy Minister with a degree from a University.

If you're talking about his video on Ukraine vs Russia. What did he even say that was wrong?
You think Russians want this? Do you think they enjoy sending their kids off to get Merced for geopolitical fuckery? No. But putin doesn't trust us, because why the fuck would he? We're literally parroting everything the old commies said, and Russians would sooner nuke the place than endure round 2.

>>20721010
If you kill your enemies, their friends gain more conviction and determination.

>>20721013
Many people hold an ideal they can't live up to. Peterson's problem is he's an enabler for power abuse.

>>20721029
>if you kill your enemies, they win!

>>20721023
>successful people have degrees and lumpenproles don't
everybody knows this already

>>20720957
I really enjoyed how Zizek asked him the simple question about where the Marxists are and Peterson couldn't answer. I also liked how Zizek had to tell his fans to stop treating the debate like a sports game or whatever he likened it to.

I listened to him on the CTH podcast after the event and he was pretty good about the whole thing. He did like the memes about Peterson googling who is Marx and so on. Just fun stuff.

>>20719188

It's rather disturbing to watch the remains of Jordan Peterson being used as a meat puppet by Ben Shapiro to push ZioConservatism on a new generation. In the Message to Muslims video Peterson can barely get through a sentence without slurring his words.

>>20721069
He named the survey that said 25% of social scientists self identify as Marxist. How is that not a great answer? That's one in four. One in four professors.

>>20721038
The point is that people convenient to the power of the ruling class are the ones selected for degrees and thus success. Those that have the possibility of pushing for actual positive change are selected out by the educational system to have low legal and financial freedom.

>>20719188
>>20719229
Benzos cooked his brain somewhat. Benzodiazepine withdrawal has been associated with hostile and aggressive behavior

>>20721038
>>successful people have degrees and lumpenproles don't
>everybody knows this already

But they don't know why---I have known too many faculty who literally reject the idea that "Universities are corporations, degrees are franchises in them." This is literally what a degree is.

For most holders of advanced degrees, even with tenure, they see the "university degree" as an ensign of proficiency, not a sort of membership in a corporation, and while they are all mostly adept at reading their employment contracts and "negotiating with the University for working conditions" they don't see it as "negotiating with themselves," they see themselves as distinct from "management."

The issue is more that the #1 thing they gets you a degree is docility, not intelligence.

To use the haircutting example, let's say, for the sake of argument, you know how to cut hair. Someone with a BA from the "Haircutting Department" comes and tells you that you need to take a course to get a permit. You ahve to pay for the course, and then you have to do continuing education, etc. etc.

The average University prof will not admit that this is a completely contingent system of extortion, whose contingencies are a way of benefitting degree holders, that is, people who are docile enough to submit to education.

Education is a different process from learning---I can learn to cut hair by cutting my own hair, for example, and cutting the hair of other people who consent to it, but the University's view is that you should only be allowed to make a living (increasingly in almost anything at all) after paying your "union dues" to the University, whether for a full degree or, here's a good example.

My mom was hired to shelve books in the local public library at 16, before she graduated highschool. The same job now is not a "part time student job," and to get it you either need to take a _TWO YEAR_ certificate course OR have a FULL BACHELORS DEGREE.

For a job that in 1965 was done by highschool girls.

To the average supporter of this system, they believe this is natural, and for all of their talk of "social construction," they RARELY do an economic analysis of things like this as being against the interest of the worker, in the interest of the people who get to sell a TWO YEAR CERTIFICATE for people who will shelve books and scan them when they are returned.

Total cost: $6341.66 (CAD) for the two years

It's just a fucking racket, and guys like Zizek and Peterson spin nonsensical yarns that try to naturalize education and hierarchy.

Zizek is more an ironist tho, he will probably agree it is bullshit but go 'well, this is the bullshit we are stuck in, the dumpster we must eat out of.' But both of them are guilty of perpetuating it---you don't get to be a concentration camp guard and pretend you're liberating people from the camp when you're not funneling them out the back door.

>>20720619
I was only ever talking about trannies

>>20721132
>For a job that in 1965 was done by highschool girls.

Also, if you kept that 1965 job, once you graduated you could have been hired and progressed through the ranks to a comfy union job w/ pension---you wouldn't be a "librarian" because even in 1965 that was monopolized by degreefags, but you could at least get basically to the "top of the food chain under the degree holders."

My mom literally organized a whole dept that didn't exist before she did it, then they hired some person to be "the librarian" because he had a masters degree. Mom is too nice to have seen anything wrong with this, but she literally did everything the Librarian would have done.

It's not even like Engineering where, OK, at the end of te day you need an Engineer to sign off on something, it's not like Librarians are part of some professional college with liability insurance.

>>20719229
wtf, way too aggressive. psychologists are meant to be calm and professional.

>>20721144
Then you need not be concerned with my post. I was only pointing out the underlying malice of the claim "doctors cannot ethically perform harmful procedures, even at request" as a whole, not specifically talking about trannies.

>>20719948
>>20720086
>but le harmful treatment
Read it with me JIDF:
>"because it is not clear that is has been a net social good".
>net social good
>social
>good

>>20721027
>Russians would sooner nuke the place than endure round 2.
Half of the Russian people want to go back to the USSR days

>>20721132
>The issue is more that the #1 thing they gets you a degree is docility, not intelligence.
If you are intelligent enough, you’ll see that just getting the damn degree is the best path, and most of the time you won’t have to pay a dime.

>>20720824
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory
That's not my opinion though, that's just stating a fact about what the term "cultural marxism" refers to. People who use the phrase "cultural marxism" are referring to "muh jews trying to subvert western society". Nobody on the left, no marxists, use this term or refer to themselves as as such. This is also simply a factual statement about this phrase being entirely absent from academic discourse. Again, as I stated in my original post, I'm not even speaking about whether the theory is true, whether or not it is objectionable, etc. I am simply describing the origin of this phrase and the context in which it is used. It's telling that Peterson uses this term unironically as if it is a mainstream academic term because it shows his ignorance of the "postmodern neo-marxists" (another one of Peterson's idiosyncratic phrases) he so often criticizes.

>>20721232
>If you are intelligent enough, you’ll see that just getting the damn degree is the best path, and most of the time you won’t have to pay a dime.

In what world do most people not pay for degrees? Are you saying "most people who are smart enough to get their degrees paid for get their degrees paid for?' That's tautological.

The issue is that it is basically the Christian University system, where "sitting through the sermon and repeating parts of it" is the #1 skill, NOT thinking, producing, etc.

The issue isn't that smart people can't game the system, it is that it's not smart people who do well, it is smart + docile people. That is what i was saying, the myth/conceit is that smart people are all docile, but the fact is that this is not true, it's only that the system only allows docile+smart (enough) ppl to obtain the ensigns of success.

I have volunteered with lots of homeless people, lots of them are nuts, but lots of them are really very bright, just were in foster care growing up, etc. so they did not get on the University track.

A guy I know had his IQ tested in elementary because he absolutely hated it, mouthed off to his retarded teachers with Bachelors degrees. IQ is like 165. He will never get a degree tho, so instead he sells weed and occasionally promoters concerts.

>>20721256
>It's telling that Peterson uses this term unironically

Peterson has a PhD, and he had tenure, so he knows what he is doing: he knows he can use the term and he can help _make it real_.

You can't do the "you're a stupid undergrad mis-using terminology, CITATION CITATION CITATION" trick on a PhD who had tenure. He is an idiot on many fronts, but treating him like he is an undergrad who is "mis-using terminology," his whole point is that you cannot cede the lexical domain to the the bloody postmodern neomarxists.

"Oh, we aren't postmodern neomarxists, CITATION CITATION CITATION" is something you would abuse an undergrad with, probably combined with giving him a grade that would bring his average and chance of admission to gradschool down.

>>20721260
I’m saying that if you are reasonably intelligent, you can feign docility without any problems.

>>20721260
Rich people game the system by buying their kids degrees they don't qualify for. We already know that. Being smart isn't necessary to get degrees either, there's a fuckton of utter morons who make it through higher education even without cheating. The cultural association between higher education and intelligence (and credibility especially) is socially engineered because it lets the state become the gatekeeper for right to speak on practical issues.

>>20721281
>135 KB
> >>20721260 (You)
> I’m saying that if you are reasonably intelligent, you can feign docility without any problems.

There is no evidence for this at all, it is, again, the very conceit I am talking about. Docility and Intelligence are correlated, but there is no amount of intelligence which will cause you to go "oh, OK, I ought to be docile."

Intelligence does not cause docility, there are plenty of very smart people who are simply not docile enough to succeed in a system that puts docility before intelligence.

And for some reason this is very hard for a certain personality type to admit. They all want to say "I am docile because I am intelligent," not, "I am docile, thank God for that!"

>>20721288
>it lets the state become the gatekeeper for right to speak on practical issues.

This is Kant's view in Conflict of the Faculties, that the Faculties are ultimately subordinate to the State.

But if you ask your average University prof "are you simply a functionary that exists to perpetuate the state and its hegemony?" most of them will say no.

>>20721256
It's hilarious that trannies made a full wikipedia article about the "cultural Marxism conspiracy theory", when a wikipedia page already exists for the exact same phenomenon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Marxism

Cultural Marxism is just a modification of the above term.

>>20721269
>Peterson has a PhD, and he had tenure
And there are plenty of PhDs, with tenure, who think he's a hack. His PhD is in a field unrelated to the theorists he speaks about. He did not read Foucault or Derrida (who also had PhDs) for his, so why invoke it as an appeal to authority in this context? Does having a PhD simply qualify one to speak with absolute authority on any topic outside the realm of one's expertise? It isn't a simple semantic issue. If you listen to him describe the ideas of these thinkers abstractly, he demonstrates his complete ignorance over and over again. You can't critique something without having read it, without having understood it (even at a superficial level). This is why he is a charlatan. You seem to think I'm just being petty, equating my grip to not using the correct pronouns or some other petty culture war issue. I'm saying he doesn't even have a basic grasp of the terms used while discussing these thinkers and unwittingly uses a fake term that refers to an anti-semitic conspiracy theory (again, simply a fact). This is completely laughable and calls his credibility into question.

>>20721281
Attending college and following the motions isn't feigning it any more than paying taxes every year is feigning obedience. It's actual docility, actual obedience, and they will condition you out of your withheld "rebelliousness" once you have a high paying job, a wife, and a lot of things that stand to be revoked the moment you rock the boat. Once they get you to begrudgingly submit they know you're already half way to fully submitting, which is why the requirements aren't that stringent in the first place.

>>20721312
>I'm saying he doesn't even have a basic grasp of the terms used while discussing these thinkers and unwittingly uses a fake term that refers to an anti-semitic conspiracy theory (again, simply a fact). This is completely laughable and calls his credibility into question.

Not a fact, but prob. not worth debating here.

What you're doing is how you treat undergraduates when you have a political agenda, you are looking for people who agree with you, and you are going to promote, or not promote (e.g. give grad school admission worthy grades, or give grades that pass (so they keep paying) but not good enough for grad school), on that basis.

There is research on this concerning philosophy, and if it happens in philosophy, it certainly happens in the rest of the humanities. Some professors are interested in promoting a diversity of ideas, some are not.

Does he ever say that he has not read Foucault or Derrida, or have you just made this up, as a sort of tautological confirmation of your view? If he had read Foucault and Derrida (I presume you have) then he would agree with my interpretation of them? Or are you using second-hand interpretations from people who claim to have read them?

I don't agree with a lot of what Peterson says (just as his pop culture career was getting off the ground, I saw him in a small lecture hall at my university, was not impressed) but criticizing him on the basis that he is an undergrad you can accuse of "not knowing what he is talking about," that is simply something that academics who dont believe in fair play do.

And it's not actually intended to refute Peterson, it is intended to, again, confuse the undergrads, most of whom have ALSO not read Derrida and Foucault.

I mean, for fuck's sakes for Derrida you would bring in the whole problem of translation, can you read Derrida in English translation, or do you need to do it in the original French?

>>20720569
And the troon crowd is completely detached from the physical too, right? JP is a joke, but if you're a troon/troon defender you're literally just the opposite side of the same coin as him. Post modernism was pushed by the CIA for a reason. Your lifestyle is brought about only by the blessing of capital. Seethe.

>>20721320
>Once they get you to begrudgingly submit they know you're already half way to fully submitting

I would argue that the interior, subjective experience of submission does not matter at all. Whether someone enjoys paying his taxes as a "good citizen" or goes "well, therea re only two things, death and taxes, LOL, while he signs the tax payment form" the end result is the same.

Junior Butter-Peanut is right, though

>>20721361
It matters in that it's the reason you need a reward structure, not just a punishment structure. Authoritarianism needs both a stick and a carrot, a stick to coerce people to obey in your presence, a carrot to incentivize people to obey outside your presence. Submitting to the university system is the stick, the high paying career and social privilege you enjoy for continuing to practice what was taught by the university system is the carrot. Without the carrot a lot more Ted types would be produced instead.

>>20719188
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjf1kEkwEfc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLLI1V67XRw

>>20721359
>Troon troon CIA
Ah another victim of the mind virus

Hey so we had another thread about this where I pointed out that there was only one other thread in the archive about JP, as a means of arguing that these JP threads weren't a raid, but that thread 404'd and now it isn't in the archive, so maybe I was wrong. Why isn't that thread we just had going in the Archive? Are these threads actually being spammed and then deleted before they end up in the archive? Is there some funny business going on, here? what gives?

>>20721301
One term is used seriously in academic literature, the other one is not.

>>20721563
It's a tranny CIA psyop as revenge for January 6th

>>20721564
Post nose

>>20721565
Nah, for real, why isn't it in the archive? It was a pretty good thread, imo, but I would feel like an asshole if I was pointing out that there weren't other JP threads in the archive in response to people complaining, saying "we've got a bunch of anti-JP threads all the time, it's totally coordinated" and I'm like, nah, look here, nothing in the archives when I search Peterson... but we just had that thread, and now it's 404'd and it isn't there in the archives. Why? This thread is still up, so I don't think it was a janny, right? What the fuck is all that about?

>>20721565
>>20721577
I only mention it, cause, if these threads really are a raid, and they're being spammed and then deleted before they 404, that would put me in a really shitty position, cause I don't want to defend Peterson, lol, but I also don't like the idea that some discord or whatever is spamming the board and then deleting threads so that they can make it look like there isn't spamming going on. That's pretty fucked up, isn't it?

>>20719333
Hi Gentile!

>>20721564
Ideologues hide behind and manipulate semantics instead of arguing the merits of worldview (which is always couched in utopianism that assumes moral superiority). Shit like that Wikipedia article slanders by association and gives a false justification vilifying the dissent. Stop telling little girls/boys it's normal to cut off your tits/cock.

>>20721564
So you admit it is just semantics then. How dull you all are.

>>20721624
Don't forget their appeal to authority fallacy.

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My bad, guys, I don't usually like to mass reply, but the other thread we were just having about this just got 404'd and isn't currently in the archives, so I'm thinking that this is probably being spammed here and then deleted to make it look like it isn't being spammed over and over.

>>20721636
Take your meds and inject your hormones.

>>20721638
You weren't in the other thread? There's still only one, really old thread about JP in the archives, so it looks like these are being deleted before they make it to the archive. Nobody likes it when boards get shitted up with spam, right? So it seems like it would just be good housekeeping to point out when threads are being intentionally deleted before they end up in the archives, right? Like, when that's being done as a means of having the same thread over and over without it seeming like spam? I dunno, man, I'm not on lit all the time, but I really like the board culture here, and to see someone intentionally spamming threads and then deleting them before they end up in the archive, that seems like a real problem.

>>20721293
>There is no evidence for this at all
Sure. None whatsoever.
Rational beings acting in self interest will always choose the option they believe will benefit them the most.

>>20719229
>/lit/fags think this is "way too aggressive".
Are you trannies serious?

>>20719197
Based posdoc prof

>>20719212
Fucking kino Juden Peterstein redeemed.

>>20721655
>>20721658
>>20721662
>>20721665
Hey, I don't mean to butt in, but I think we should definitely talk about the fact that there was just a thread about this, and that thread isn't currently in the archives, pointing to the fact that the board is being spammed. I can't say for sure, but I think it's probably got something to do with the fella who made this youtube video >>20721532
Maybe trying to get traction for his channel? Same reason he posted it to a reddit channel he knew it would get deleted on, drum up something that he could post here, over and over to get his channel off the ground. The other thread had this video in the OP, and then it was posted here around when that thread was deleted, but idk, could explain the spam.

>>20720030
>which was specifically written for retarded French communists
Ok so we're talking about first class retards.

>>20720099
Do you have to read the entire lore on a retard to point out he's acting like a retard in the present? Sounds like a disingenuous argument to turn a discussion of principles, actions, and outcomes into a marxist trivia quiz.

>>20721692
>>20721707
Look, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be JP threads, and I was enjoying the thread that we were having earlier, but the fact of the matter is, if those threads are being deleted before they can be archived, then it seems like someone is spamming the board, and I think the evidence suggests that it's the guy who made these videos>>20721532
Now, I don't like to point the finger and make accusations, it really isn't in my nature, alls I'm saying, is that, you know, you can make a thread, one thread at a time, to discuss a topic, and you can post your videos somewhere in that thread, right? But I was enjoying that thread, and I had just made a reply, and poof, thread deleted, so that more threads can be made to spam the board without people catching on to the fact that there's spam. Strikes me as quite dishonest!

>>20719188
his debate with Zizek is still one of the most hilarious things I've ever seen. Zizek didn't even attempt to dispute any of his points and just talked past him and still wiped the floor with him. humiliating.

>>20721662
Most postdocs passed the point of giving a fuck long ago

>>20721658
for a conversation with a psychologist? yes, it's hostile.

>>20719188
I got put off by him always squinting in photos.

>>20719188

Leftists: This guy is fucking retarded...

Rightwing incel dipshits: Shut up, tranny libtards!

**Peterson misunderstands the law he is rallying against that got him initially famous, clearly a christian conservative, but muh "Classical Liberal" bullshit eaten up by midwits, mote and baileys every single time an interview asks him to clarify his conservative talking points, sells a self guide filled with obvious shit even he doesn't follow, gets mega addicted to benzos (heckin untidy room, bucko), Induced coma in vladistan, returns to sell another book despite his personal failure as a man/professional, becomes a chronically online and massively triggered agitator of the blue hairs, now shines Ben Shapiros balls grifting the dumbest of the dumb bitching about SJW's like it is 2014.

Rightwing incel dipshits coming to the obvious realization: ...**crickets**...

Leftists: You people need better heroes.

>>20720086
I had not considered that anon, that’s a good argument.
But to be fair Peterson was basing his own argument on what actions have the best possible social outcomes which is a pretty commie thing to say

>>20721648
Trannies hate Jordan Peterson. Some jannies are trannies. When that (or those) tranny jannie(s) show up, it deletes the thread. Simple as.

>>20722011
>muh incels!
go back

juden peterstein

>>20719229
I get the sense that JBP started out in life wanting to be regarded as a great intellectual and to achieve worldwide fame. Then, as the years went by, he gradually began to accept his limits and fit into a relatively sedate, unsatisfactory life. Then, suddenly, the heavy blanket of realism was ripped away and he experienced the gratification he'd been missing for decades. I saw articles literally calling him "the greatest intellectual of our time" - a sickening exaggeration. Now, he's fallen back down to earth but the fame has completely gone to his head. Fame is probably the second worst thing that ever happened to him, after whatever caused him to seek such grandeur in the first place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbGoUwmqIEQ

Just watch this. I laughed HARD when JBP mentions out of nowhere that he dropped 7 grams of shrooms on 3 separate occasions and claimed to see the structure of DNA in his mind, and Dawkins is just like "WTF?". Seriously, Peterson fans and detractors alike, need to see this shit.

Why doesn't Peterson and the right realise Foucault is anti-marxist

>>20722067
Ironic that Dostoevsky is one of his favourite authors.

>>20719247
getting annihilated on xanax was the only cool thing Professor Clean Your Room ever did.

>>20720179
And the cause of that seethe, then and partially now, is his unbridled autism.

>Peterson is STILL making /lit/fag seeth
Why are you still letting this "midwit" live in your head rent-free?

>>20722365
Maps of meaning was a 10/10 textbook, but /lit/ is mostly peoples nowadays by trannies from /lgbt/ and kiwi farms aspires.

It's pretty clear peterson has decided to focus in on the young males who still may actually have a chance to turn their lives around, as opposed to the 30 somethings who feel his message has reached them too late, and with too little impact, mostly as a consequence of their own wasted potential.

Don't spend a decade and a half jacking off to men in thigh highs, boys. You'll end up like the retards bashing him for hiring a pr manager.

>>20719188
>He has become
>Implying he always wasn't

This is the moment I realised he was a fraud (or maybe the rug moment, that was pretty telling).

https://youtu.be/cbxL-MGSem8

This particular clip is probably the Peterson's been. I still don't know if he's serious when he speaks like this. Maybe, he's just trolling us.

>>20722660
Post ypur daughter's nudes Pete, then maybe I'll think about buying your book.

>>20722853
>he buys books

>>20719414
they are losers, no doubt, but Peterson is at least giving them a purpose and making them useful to the right

>>20722896
>least giving them a purpose and making them useful to the right
You sound like an another idiot. If they cut him off from their lives after improving, maybe. But if they stick with him, they'll lose their money, time, or something even more valuable.

>>20721027
Putin and the Russian high command are literally reusing USSR buzzwords for the war in Ukraine

>>20721565
>tranny CIA psyop as revenge for a tranny CIA psyop

>>20722896
The type of person you're talking about is inherently unstable and bounces from one extreme ideology to another like a pinball, so they're useful for whatever larp boogaloo you had in mind

>>20722896
The type of person you're talking about is inherently unstable and bounces from one extreme ideology to another like a pinball, so they're useless for whatever larp boogaloo you had in mind

>>20719497
>Also, Peterson didn't lecture from notes so it would be hard for him to trash a podium
Well, unless he trashed it with something other than notes (like the oral syringes from his benzos or some unrelated refuse)

>>20719229
based, he must be fed up dealing with nitwits like Kulinski
>>20722067
Wouldn't you be fed up if you were him? Imagine working hard your whole life to become an esteemed academic only to have to spend the next 35 years debating the tranny question with your increasingly lunatic marxoid peers and niggercattle students/public.

>>20723124
>an esteemed academic
Even before the benzos the dude was lecturing on the biblical representations of Disney animated musicals.

>>20723145
I thought he was a big brain clinical psych

>>20719188
I've always found him incoherent in videos compared to his books. Maybe someone ghostwrote the books, or he's shit at speaking face to face.

He's looking so different these days. They can't have done it again, can they?

>>20720067
Ur gay lol

>>20721577
It's literally trannies, my guy.

There's a moderator over on /lgbt/ who males like 40% of the threads on /lit/. If you point him out then insta-nukes the thread.

Peterson is their biggest opponent

>>20721312
>He didn't read foucuck or derida
Neither have I, yet I can refute absolutely everything they've ever said about the fundamental nature of reality.

6 years later and /leftypol/ is still seething over a Canadian
Go back to your tranny discord server lmao

>>20723211
they can't keep getting away with it

>>20723240
Are the trannies in the thread with us right now?

>>20719188
Bros, I bought 12 Rules for Life, read half of it then abandoned it, and now I feel like fucking burning it for how much of a retarded faggot this man is