/lit/ - Literature

No one writes in /wg/

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
The slogan 'Press On!' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
-Calvin Coolidge

>Last week on /wg/…..

>>20710137
Yes. With the exception of F Gardner. As it was painstakingly established in the last thread.

>inb4 tripfags

Read.
Critique.
Be real, don't be a hater.
Say something worthwhile.

https://pastebin.com/6x7HU84e

It's an emotionally gripping sports drama.

>>20710154
>inb4 F Gardner circlejerking

>>20710154
Congrats.

>>20710164
Fuck off Sponge.

>>20710115
It's the one posted here >>20709546
He comes across as really incompetent
Apparently all his stories take place around Chicago? The city he lives/grew up in and he talks about "write what you know"
Having all your stories take place in one location is lame af and saying "well it's the same universe" is just an excuse

>>20710159
You rang?

New thread already? GFDI how do I always post right at the end of a thread

L

There was nothing to say about the heat other than it was hot and that everywhere was hot too. The AC was set to cold and only blew air into the corner where the bed was not. He felt sticky. There was nothing to say about it. The two laid naked on the bed looking but not really at anything. Neither liked the way things were going or felt it could be stopped.
They had made sure the cat was somewhere shady with fresh water. Ice was put in the cat's water bowl from parental concern. Some cats actually avoided water if it had ice in it, as it turned out. She had read something once about how in China people preferred to drink hot water, even in the summer. They had analyzed why this might be the case. Like most animals it was hard to say whether the cat thought anything at all or only acted on instinct and vague preference.
She got off the bed and crouched in the cold corner of the room with the glass of water. Her elbows rested on her knees and her feet extended flat on the floor. Yoga lets you do this. She drank the water with both hands like a child does, looking a little doe-eyed out at nothing ahead. He loved this about her.
It had been important to them that the cat was named something human. It carried the respect they had for him, the name, and they thought the cat would somehow feel this respect in having a real name. The title “Mister” was sometimes added to the name—as in “Mister Loren”. They watched the cat drink ice water feeling something close to relief and pride.

>>20710202
She said how much she missed the winter even though she knew when it was winter she'd be saying how much she missed the summer. He murmured a sound that expressed he was listening and watched her breasts hang in her squat. He admired how sweat brought out the curves and textures of a person, made them shiny and new. Sweat layered on itself like paint. How it creeps into the creases of skin like a lubricant. He thought about white shirts becoming transparent with sweat. How hair has evolved for sweat and heat and cold. The cat did not meow so much as chirp. She hated how her breasts looked saggy when she bent over. In the mornings and in the shower she would lift them up and let them drop to feel the weight of the feeling. He thought her breasts looked motherly and not even in any sexual way. It was impossible to say this to her in a way that she would appreciate.
She told him to stop murmuring. He murmured again.
It was too hot for sex.
I read in India it's so hot that people die, he said. He asked her what she thought that must've felt like, dying of heat. It must be slow. Like the world has a fever you’re a part of. That is the last thing I want to think about right now she said and took a powerful sip of water. Waterdrops slipped from her mouth down against her chest, looking the same as the sweat and the moisture the glass left on the nightstand. She put her fingers in the glass and wiped herself with them across her forehead, her neck, her arms, stomach.
He laughed. Smiling she said what is it that is sooo funny mister and with a humming sound walked over to him as small pebbles of water from the glass and herself fell onto the floor and streaking herself she dipped her head down above his smiling laughing and before he could say what what even funny he knew it did not matter and said nothing. She felt his sweat on his forehead and he how her fingers were water wet.

She was laying on top of him and he was thinking about the heat and how hot it was and how it would only ever get hotter from here until it was too cold

I posted this late last thread (see my seething above lmao) so I'm re-re-reposting it here so more people can read and help me fix it. Already considered tips are

Im trying to add my book to the lit image. Cant get it readable at that low pixels. Welp, flaw in design I guess. I'll have to get on gimp tomorrow and do a real shrink.

>>20710226
>Im trying to add my book to the lit image.
>Weedman
No thank you.

>have a big twist I think people would like and is kind of necessary as a big reveal near the end that upsets but explains the whole story
>makes me feel like it trivializes the setting and I don't like it because of that

Can this work out? Is the hesitance a case of me not wanting to kill a darling or should I go with my reluctant gut instinct? It's unlike any type of twist I personally like in other media which makes me wary and makes me think good writers don't use them for a reason.

In essence it's the villain revealing how he was directly and indirectly behind almost every bad thing the protagonist went through, including large parts of the state of the world, all to achieve his goal, the closest thing I can think of is "IT WAS ME BARRY" but this is far more involved. I don't like handing over that much agency over the setting to one character.

>>20710223
>first short story begins
This is your first short story? Go finish it. I will not critique something unfinished. FINISH IT. Stop dicking around seeking approval, you will never finish anything this way.

>>20710235
It is literally my last name. :(
I thought I attached the really goofed-up low res image, didn't. Hence the deletion.

>>20710242
That one I'm still working on currently. Most of the rest were already thought but I never though of a good one to start off with.

Thinking lately about how Hussie had the world in his palm and broke Newgrounds and now he is on the path to becoming a full clown tranny and his last project was so bad it was ignored entirely, which is worse than being made fun of
>>20710236
Can you give more details so I can give you a more accurate opinion?
This is kinda vague

>>20710257
Doesnt change anything. Finish the story. A story is 99% plot 1% style. Just finish. Create something. If you are seeking validation this early in the process of learning the hobby you are setting yourself up for failure.

One tip for you: don't use adverbs or split infinitives.

>>20710242
>It is literally my last name. :(
Lmao

>>20710273
Right?

What do you guys think of my intro?

"One cannot raise walls against what has been forgotten.
The citadel of Ishuäl succumbed during the height of the Apocalypse. But no army of inhuman Sranc had scaled its ramparts. No furnace-hearted dragon had pulled down its mighty gates. Ishuäl was the secret refuge of the Kûniüric High Kings, and no one, not even the No-God, could besiege a secret.
Months earlier, Anasûrimbor Ganrelka II, High King of Kûniüri, had fled to Ishuäl with the remnants of his household. From the walls, his sentries stared pensively across the dark forests below, their thoughts stricken by memories of burning cities and wailing multitudes. When the wind moaned, they gripped Ishuäl’s uncaring stone, reminded of Sranc horns. They traded breathless reassurances. Had they not eluded their pursuers? Were not the walls of Ishuäl strong? Where else might a man survive the end of the world?
The plague claimed the High King first, as was perhaps fitting: Ganrelka had only wept at Ishuäl, raged the way only an Emperor of nothing could rage. The following night the members of his household carried his bier down into the forests. They glimpsed the eyes of wolves reflected in the light of his pyre. They sang no dirges, intoned only a few numb prayers.
Before the morning winds could sweep his ashes skyward, the plague had struck two others: Ganrelka’s concubine and her daughter. As though pursuing his bloodline to its thinnest tincture, it assailed more and more members of his household. The sentries upon the walls became fewer, and though they still watched the mountainous horizon, they saw little. The cries of the dying crowded their thoughts with too much horror.
Soon even the sentries were no more. The five Knights of Trysë who’d rescued Ganrelka after the catastrophe on the Fields of Eleneöt lay motionless in their beds. The Grand Vizier, his golden robes stained bloody by his bowel, lay sprawled across his sorcerous texts. Ganrelka’s uncle, who’d led the heartbreaking assault on Golgotterath’s gates in the early days of the Apocalypse, hung from a rope in his chambers, slowly twisting in a draft. The Queen stared endlessly across festering sheets."

i'm looking for help in how to start and structure my blog/book which is a guide to life. meant as a modern day replacement for all the religious doctrines that are holding individuals and civilisation back

Outline of blog/book
Introduction to bibles and other doctrines
Cults
Their purposes and ours
conceptions of god and the universe, determinism, free will and their implications
developing a perspective/worldview of the self in the universe
Outline of the type of person you may be, the target demographic
Outline of setbacks in life up until now (poor/no talent/wasted talent etc)
Things you can do, for your past, present and future

recovery from the past, coping with the present and preparing for the future

>>20710285
Dogshit out of 10

>>20710285
how much of your shitty book have you already written? I would edit it for cheap to pay gambling debts

maat042@yahoo.com

>>20710136
it's a weekly magazine.

as above, as below, hoe

minimagsubmissions@gmail.com

>>20710318

>>20710320

>>20710290
Filtered.

>>20710323

>>20710325

>>20710317
NTA but can you guarantee confidentiality

>>20710327

>>20710136
>300 words tonight
>MC finally beginning his doomed romance arc with the main girl
It's happening bros. This is the arc that fucking sets his character up for the next 35 years. And it only took me 120,000 words to get there.

Also first for pige

>>20710271
Will do. Is using adverbs and split infinitives in reference to a specific issue in the post or more general?

>>20710331

>>20710336

I'm getting told this opening is weaker than the rest of the story, but no one is able to say how to fix it. There's a chance that my early readers are just misdiagnosing because they think every part of a story is supposed to read like the other parts.

Any thoughts?

>Beginning memory recall…

>The guy across the train was looking at me. Actual eye contact. The two of us were in a tin can flying seventy kilometers an hour somewhere around the fortieth floor going god knew where and surrounded by zombies-- the bipedal sheep of the city so fried on dopamine hits they could barely think straight. People who need a machine to tell them go here, do this, eat that, don’t forget to wipe your ass before you play with your dick, and don’t ever ever ever question anything. Stupid people ask questions, and nobody wants to be stupid. All the smart people check for the answer online and no one’s the wiser.

>>20710342

>>20710344

>>20710318
>>20710320
>>20710323
>>20710325
>>20710331
>>20710342
>>20710344
>>20710345
STOP FLOODING THE THREAD WITH YOUR GARBAGE YOU FAGGOT

I wish I could write

>>20710345

>>20710343
there's a lot going on in that third sentence. how's it supposed to carry that much weight

>>20710330
yes, I have a linkedin and shit

>>20710350
You just did buddy.

I added my book, upped the res, added names.
Cheers anons.

>>20710285
Is this 40k fanfic? Dont post infodumps for critique.

No one likes an info dump, however necessary they may be.

>>20710343
Awkward tense shifts, phrasing, run-on sentences, juvenile style/narrator. I just don't like it at all. I probably wouldn't make it past the opening if I were trying to read your novel. Your early readers may not know enough to point out what exactly is wrong, but they are right that it is very weak and a major turn-off. Scrap it, learn from it, rewrite it.

>>20710386
It's the prologue and not an infodumb. What do you think?

>>20710324
Just taking the piss Anon. It reads fine

>>20710393
unironically go read Eragon's prologue

>>20710136
Fuck you and your crew
I’m not pooing in the loo,
I don’t fuck with the Jew,
When I shit it smells like vindaloo,
I got curry diarrhoea shit brew,
When I pull up, you’ll know who
Be rocking the premium Jordans shoe,
I ain’t litigious cuz I don’t sue,
But I’ll take your gold chain or a few.

>>20710393
Its a fucking infodump. Dont kid yourself. It is brainmelting to try to get through all of that at once.

A prologue is not the place to put all of that backstory. Prologues are supposed to tease.

>>20710400
take out the cuz in line 8. Replace with a comma

>>20710368
Since you feel so motivated, why not add "Xenos Depths" by Michael D. Cinder?
Then you'll have all the 4chan-author books that are sitting on my bookshelf.

>>20710334
General.
Also, said is the only dialogue tag you should ever use. This does not mean use said in every tag, just that you should try to structure your scenes so that you don't need he said she said.

>>20710395
>>20710399
>>20710407
Here's more. What do you think?

"Of all those who had fled to Ishuäl, only Ganrelka’s bastard son and the Bardic Priest survived.
Terrified by the Bard’s strange manner and one white eye, the young boy hid, venturing out only when his hunger became unbearable. The old Bard continually searched for him, singing ancient songs of love and battle, but slurring the words in blasphemous ways. “Why won’t you show yourself, child?” he would cry as he reeled through the galleries. “Let me sing to you. Woo you with secret songs. Let me share the glory of what once was!”
One night the Bard caught the boy. He caressed first his cheek and then his thigh. “Forgive me,” he muttered over and over, but tears fell only from his blind eye. “There are no crimes,” he mumbled afterward, “when no one is left alive.”
But the boy lived. Five nights later, he lured the Bardic Priest onto Ishuäl’s towering walls. When the man shambled by in a drunken stupor, he pushed him from the heights. He crouched for a long while at the fall’s edge, staring down through the gloom at the Bard’s broken corpse. It differed from the others, he decided, only in that it was still wet. Was it murder when no one was left alive?
Winter added its cold to the emptiness of Ishuäl. Propped on the battlements, the child would listen to the wolves sing and feud through the dark forests. He would pull his arms from his sleeves and hug his body against the chill, murmuring his dead mother’s songs and savouring the wind’s bite on his cheek. He would fly through the courtyards, answering the wolves with Kûniüric war cries, brandishing weapons that staggered him with their weight. And once in a while, his eyes wide with hope and superstitious dread, he would poke the dead with his father’s sword.
When the snows broke, shouts brought him to Ishuäl’s forward gate. Peering through dark embrasures, he saw a group of cadaverous men and women—refugees of the Apocalypse. Glimpsing his shadow, they cried out for food, shelter, anything, but the boy was too terrified to reply. Hardship had made them look fearsome—feral, like a wolf people.
When they began scaling the walls, he fled to the galleries. Like the Bardic Priest, they searched for him, calling out guarantees of his safety. Eventually, one of them found him cringing behind a barrel of sardines. With a voice neither tender nor harsh, he said: “We are Dûnyain, child. What reason could you have to fear us?”
But the boy clutched his father’s sword, crying, “So long as men live, there are crimes!”
The man’s eyes filled with wonder. “No, child,” he said. “Only so long as men are deceived.”
For a moment, the young Anasûrimbor could only stare at him. Then solemnly, he set aside his father’s sword and took the stranger’s hand. “I was a prince,” he mumbled.
The stranger brought him to the others, and together they celebrated their strange fortune."

>>20710400
Not bad for a change.
Faggot.

>>20710415
Done.
Putting my kid to bed now. Later anons.

>>20710422
You've got an odd style that I don't have the time to unwind. I'm sorry anon. If you post in another thread soon, I'll give it a proper look over.

On cursory glance: better than the first one. Remember, names of fantasy/scifi places can be sticky. Find a way to incorporate intrigue. You do not need to info dump to world build.

>>20710285
Very infodumpy, but still the most competently written thing I've read in /wg/ all day.

Nitpicky, but I feel like "that which has been forgotten" sounds a lot better than "what has been"

I also feel like you could use some semi-colons and em dashes to help it flow better. Some of it reads kinda stilted because of all the short, yet related clauses with full stops. Some of this is written in a style that gives off a quickened pace, yet you're bombarding me with exposition that asks me to slow down and take in all of the world-building. Could easily be decent in a more refined state

>>20710440
Thanks for your work!
I've saved the image & will post it when the subject comes up.

>>20710440
The only other things I can think of are the other 10 Gardner books, The Shitkickers and the Unreal Press books.

>>20710368
You need Xenos' Depth, Mike Ma's /pol/ ramblings, Kassie's short stories, and Woolston's short stories

>>20710136
ive been writing many philosophy and SOCs. Im having trouble focusing and knowing where to apply limits, I know "1.how long? as long as it needs to be." '2. Write it once, then rewrite it in half, and then again, with saying the same thing each time."

but how do you manage scope and then decide if people will read it or just write it and shelf it for awhile?

>>20710471
I saw their podcast link in the previous thread. These guys?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HsLfrpEAfB8

>>20710484
I thought about filling out their form to maybe get an interview since I have a couple of published books but they ask for pronouns? I hope that's just a filter lol

>>20710484
I listened to this interview earlier. F Gardner seems almost like a parody of a 4channer. Flat earther, animefag, doesn’t believe cigarettes cause cancer. This is levels of based I rarely see.

>>20710508
Don't forget his awkwardness and all the "um"s and how he continuously rambled when asked what books he would recommend and basically all he could say was that he had been rereading Goosebumps
Dude is definitely a NEET coasting in an allowance

>>20710508
>4chan author turns out to be a schizo

Big surprise.

>>20710400
Your rhymes are whack Sponge
Cuz you a hack Sponge
Ima take the big plunge
Flush your ass down son
Gurgle gurgle mothafucka
Don't wanna hear none
Drown this drain plugga
This turd is passed done

>>20710516
Look at his books. He’s the guy who wrote Call of the Crocodile. F Gardner unironically reading Goosebumps honestly makes sense.

>>20710508
My favorite part was when he lied about doing Taekwondo.

>>20710537
I laughed out loud when he started talking about being a life long martial artist

>>20710525
>>20710525
This. Gardner is like a self parody of himself. Retarded and amped up to a comical degree. He is this place’s Chris Chan. Even one of his books is a Pokémon fanfic and another one is a self insert where he’s a famous author. He probably did that thinking it would make him like Dante.

Are there any fantasy books you know of that are very particular about scenery?

>>20710553
But F Gardner is a famous author.

>>20710561
*infamous

>>20710522
omg. take out the cuz in line 2. see how it punches up the rhythm?

>>20710541
>>20710537
Eh that doesn’t sound too unbelievable. Call of the Kappa is about martial arts so that somewhat makes sense. Unless he said he’s a former UFC fighter or some ridiculous claim.

>>20710157
This is bad. Really bad. I would recommend reading more challenging books because I can't decipher this from being written by a bot or a real person.

>>20710571
Then you wouldn't have anything to complain about though.

>>20710537
I’m in a discord server with him. Believe it or not Gardner is a highly ranked black belt. I forget what degree. He’s spammed pictures of himself dressed up in his gi before. He likes to brag about it but that’s not even the most retarded part. He believes in all that Naruto ninja magic stuff and seemed to imply he could control chi.

>>20710561
I'm not sure that a handful of degenerates on a Tibetan throat singing forum knowing who you are makes you famous, anon

>>20710472
Perhaps there should be a few separate images.
One for novels, one for /pol/ ramblings (e.g. Ma) and pure schizo (e.g. Behead All Satans), and one for short-story collections.
>shitkickers
Ugh...yes...but only because Gardner's in the novels-image, too.

>>20710580
>Eh that doesn’t sound too unbelievable.
It did when he said it.

>>20710608
>Believe it or not
Yeah I don't believe it. Sorry Gardner.

>>20710612
>a handful

If only that were so.

>>20710627
>Sorry Gardner

Lmao. Where did it sound like I was defending that guy? Just because I’m in a server with him doesn’t mean I like him.

>>20710636
Post proof or stop LARPing as actually knowing Gardner.

>>20710636
>I'm not defending him but he IS a high ranking black belt
Honestly pathetic
Edit your work if you have this much free time

>>20710655
He’s posted pictures. What do you expect me to say?

>>20710604
baited

>>20710440
the Diamond League should at least have an honorable mention of some sort

>>20710669
Alight hold on you sperg. I’ll skim through discord and find one

>>20710676
>>20710669
>>20710655
Found one! For the last time I am NOT defending Faggot Gardner. I’m in a server with him. Along with like a hundred other people.

>>20710699
Holy shit.

>>20710285
>>20710422
It's a shame Bakker's writing quality decreases so much between books. I liked this intro and book 1 quite a bit but I can't recommend it to anyone - sort of like Wheel of Time actually.

>>20710699
That's just a belt with your name on it. Not proof of anything.

>>20710699

>>20710712
I don’t really care. I’ve spent enough time talking about that faggot and I’m not going to go out of my way to defend him.

>>20710726
You just did Gardner.

>>20710537
I think teaching it is his day job. He’s not a full time author. Do you think he’s actually making a living from his books? Of course not.

>>20710699
Taking Tae Kwon Do down at the ARC center doesn't count.

>>20710739
Ok Gardner.

>>20710742
>I think teaching it is his day job
Lol. Lmao even.

>>20710752
I thought it was already established that Gardner was secretly ripped?

>>20710763
He has the body of an 80 year old man.

>>20710763
He’s got pecs

Where can I get an invite to this super secret F Gardner server?

>>20710780
Timestamped pic of a sharpie up your butt and I'll drop the link here.

>>20707727
Four stars is far too generous for Boswell’s swill and you should be ashamed for propping up something so mediocre. I understand that you’re treating your fellow /lit/ anons with kid gloves, but this is just absurd.

>>20710419
Agreed. I like to think I've been diligent about avoid 'said' too much.

>>20710285
Sranc reminds me of Scranton Pennsylvania.
And as other Anons have said its an infodump and most of this means basically nothing to someone who doesn't already have some idea of what's going on.

>>20710816
>read review
>multiple criticisms
>gives it 4 stars
That's very generous, his review makes it sound like it's a 2-3 star book

>>20710537
Lmao. That’s the one topic he’s knowledgeable about.

Line:
>“You completely missed out on the circus! It was so intense. The clown called on me to participate in the show too! It was such a nice gesture!”

Should I put Jester instead of Gesture to make the pun incredibly obvious?

>>20710816
>>20710855
Boswell doesn’t even deserve /lit/ privilege for his reviews. The man has a 10 year old Reddit account that he posts every story to.

>>20710872
I know. It even bleeds into his religious beliefs. Not sure what his cope is for the flat earth crap.

I got an opening that I want to help set the stage a little bit in the world. I think expanding it will help make it a little more substantial for the reader and learning about the world, but a crit for it as an opening and how clear you're understanding things can help.

https://txt.fyi/-/22201/31ac93b6/

Writing out this Google doc with character descriptions and references for my artist
Wrote half a chapter and gonna do some more outlining for the Honeymeme project
Did some research on a writers conference in November and thinking about going

>>20710285
its a lot of weird names, events, deities etc you are making the reader grapple with right off the bat. This seems like lore that could be gradually revealed to the reader at a slower pace as it becomes relevant to the main story you are writing

>>20710343
>Beginning memory recall...
It would probably be best to remove this and just begin narrating.
>god knew where
You can probably still say "god knows where" even if you are writing in the past tense. Overall I am inclined not to like the MC just bc he seems like he is complaining so much right from the getgo. Like if there is a problem with everyone else in this world and it just annoys the MC, it'd probably just be better to reveal his annoyance in the course of dialogue after annoying shit happens so he doesn't seem like an asshole. Even if he is an asshole, you want your reader to be able to tolerate him enough to keep reading

>>20710855
>not edited
>tangents go nowhere
>plot is dragged down by distractions that should have been cut
>obvious politics that would make a Qtard wince in second hand embarrassment
>no subtlety to any of the themes
>16otaku as a stand in for 4chan
4/5 stars.

Any of you write while drunk/high? For me it's great for brainstorming but terrible for writing.

>>20711083
I dont smoke weed anymore but it's just as you said, great for brainstorming but I would try to write and it would just be too much
I'd also end up masturbating every time I smoked
That stuff is really really bad for me
Don't drink as much because it makes me sick and I don't like the feeling

I'm finally almost done with my book. I only have two chapters until I'm done. idk how to publish it. I'm not going to do the self publishing route, I just can't afford it. So what do I have to do? Do I just email companies or call them and say "Hey! I'm some random mook with a new book!"?

>>20711122
Self publishing is free what you mean you can't afford it

>>20711083
My process is to get drunk & emotional to match the vibes of what I'm writing, write with the flow, and then when sober go back and edit it as needed. I feel that this captures what I'm going for at a more basic level without all the arrogant self doubt.

>>20711127
I'd have to pay to print all those books or for hosting. I'd also have no marketing established or distributors. Not to mention I literally only have $184 to my name right now.

>>20711127
This. Self pub and meme yourself to success with 4chan ads like Call of the Crocodile. Don’t tell me Gardner is the smartest person on this whole board for being the only one who has figured this out.

Since this board doesn't have a SQTDDTOT I'll ask in here so as to not nuke an existing thread.
I know this will sound retarded but keep in mind the last time I read a book was in middle school.

Anyway, how does book translations work?
Are they translated literally, word for word?
With videogames for example you sometimes have Localizations where some parts of the dialogue is changed so as to make more sense to an audience that speaks a different language. Do books often do such a thing?
I'm ask because I get paranoid about buying a book in my language and it being a different experience than what the author intended. Maybe I'm overthinking things?

>>20711132
He unironically might be kek. The man gets a lot of shit. But he’s proven himself to be more resourceful than anyone else here for this fact alone.

>>20711132
I've debated buying 4chan ads but Gardner actually scares me away from it

>>20711140
>>20711132
>>20711127
I'm just so fucking poor, bros. I just want to sign it away to some organization that's bigger that'll give me a decent paycheck so I can just write for a living and live relatively comfy.

>>20711152
Okay but that's not going to happen. You're just going to keep being poor.

>>20711152
You aren't likely to get that with your very first book anon
It takes forever to get a lit agent and then you gotta wait to get a deal and for it to close out, beaurocratic processes, etc.
You're better off self publishing
It takes volume of volumes to make a living at this
It's a slow grind but it will be worth it

>A Nap in Satin Sheets
>It had been years since he tried it. The freeze marks showed on his arms, shoulders, spine and feet. Not that he could see the red, boil covered spots tender on his back.
>They had all died in the jostle. Asleep in their icy beds, unaware that life had ever passed from their fingertips. He had awoken in pain, several thousand years too early. An inevitable glitch in the system. It had picked him, fate. It had chosen him to be the one out of millions that would be subject to an unavoidable system failure among a world of perfect people and machines.
>Now he was out here, truly alone. The massive ship careened into space several times the speed of a bullet, fumes of energy long gone and spent trying to set a course and autopilot back home at the glitch’s first encounter. Despite the computer’s clever attempts, all it had managed to do was move the ship exactly one millionth of a way back home with the remaining fuel it had left. Now it was drifting in the general direction of home, every bump and scrape against the hull, every noise he heard aside from his own shallow breathing meant getting even further and hopelessly further off course.
>Not that the course was ever close. Had he his own cryosleep system, he may have stood a chance. But it had been years since he tried it. The boils lasted almost indefinitely, and he couldn’t lie down anymore, not without laying waste to the last clean sheets this lifeless ship offered, dirtying them with the outlines of large boils. Systems would soon shut off for good, yet he found himself wanting to keep the sanctity of sleeping in clean sheets above all else.
>Perhaps what he was scraping off would eventually decay. Skin and blood, puss and infections that could be healed in an instant back home, they would likely melt away into a black stain on the floor, even though his pile was getting higher now. Scraping with a knife, he tore his pain away to a sensation more purposeful, a red more beautiful, without sully from infection, without the presence of an imperfect sin.
>When he was done, all that ran down his back was a slick, dark red, skin cut to be even and serene. It soaked into the sheets of his dead cryosleep chamber.
>He would not try again. But he would finally get some sleep.

Day 39 editing.
Chapter 44 comprete.
I hope Kaiju anon hasn't been crushed by his numerous beasts.

>>20710926
First impressions here is that you might want to move your description, I think it's easier for people to grasp what Remoria is when you take what you wrote in your last paragraph and add it to the first. Some of the things you wrote were also unclear in meaning, like the significance of the bleeding heart. It's an interesting setting though so I want to see more of it.

I can't kick writing. No matter how shitty or inconsistent I am with actually writing or what I write when I do manage to get words on the page, I can't drop the damn thing. If I go without writing during a day I feel like I wasted that day. I know this sounds like a good problem to have but I wish I could turn this off. Nothing entertains me that much anymore, at least what used to doesn't. Games, most shows, most movies, I'm not gravitated toward them as much as I was ten years ago. I can't tell if this is autism or some kind of passion chain that installs itself when you build up enough sunk cost fallacy.

>>20711187
That's good to mention, I was debating and flip flopping about where that two paragraph intro segment went. On one hand, make it easier for the reader to get in by having an event first, on the other hand, make them understand immediately by having it first but risking people going "oh no exposition, better juice outta this one."
Thanks for taking the time anon

>>20710926
I don't like the way you write your dialogue. It comes off like some Japanese light novel which never fully dictates who's speaking when.

>>20711195
You're welcome, it's nice to see someone else working on fantasy I can get behind. Also, what's the significance of the lamp?
>On one hand, make it easier for the reader to get in by having an event first, on the other hand, make them understand immediately by having it first but risking people going "oh no exposition, better juice outta this one."
My only advice here would be to avoid giving too much exposition, maybe you can give just enough for people to understand what Remoria is and then do the event.

>>20710522
https://youtu.be/H1Yt0xJKDY8

>>20711131
No you don't Amazon does it all for you. You don't even need a hard copy. They'll print on demand

For at least the tenth time that year Andy had opened his locker to find a letter had been placed there. It was a simple folded piece of paper with the distinct scent of a girl coming off of it. Another love confession he would have to go deal with after school. It was always such an annoyance.
His interest in dating matched his interest for just about every other aspect of school life. Every day it was nothing more than classes he had to get through and social hierarchies he had to navigate. That afternoon he made short work of the timid little girl who had apparently fallen for him. He did not want to be cruel, but he did not possess the tact to let someone down easily.
“I’m sorry,” he said after meeting with her on the roof. She clenched her hands at her heart, the hopeful innocence already fading from her eyes. “It won’t work out. I have no time for relationships and I find you bland regardless.” With the heavens granting a flair for the dramatic, a cool wind blew. He turned away from her, hands buried deep into his pockets, leaving her sobbing as she crumbled to the ground.
Love? That is something he did not understand. There was only one thing in this world which moved his heart, the only thing he had to look forward to at the end of the day. As he entered the gym he heard that familiar echo bounce against the high ceiling, the squeal of sneakers against the court and the rattle of the rim after a missed shot. This was it, the atmosphere of a basketball game. There was room in his heart for nothing else.
“Sinker!” someone called, “Think fast!” One of his teammates passed him the basketball. With his backpack still slung over one shoulder he dribbled over to the three-point line, set his feet and jumped.
The familiar motion, practiced millions of times. Bent knees lifted him from the ground, back straight, elbows in then extended. The ball left his fingertips, he watched it travel in an arc towards its goal.
He once heard that if you were immortal time would no longer exist. Every moment that has ever been would be experienced simultaneously and infinitely. If that were true then this moment in the air, before his feet hit the ground, before the ball touched the rim, when all he could do was watch… in this moment, he became a god.
He heard the familiar rattle of the yellow backboard in the park behind his house. That is where he first discovered his talent. In the back of his mind he could still hear his father, home from work and freshly liquored up, yelling at his mother and siblings. While he was in the air like this, that voice was worlds away, nothing could touch him as he watched the ball cycle along the rusted rim and finally find its way to the torn net.
Then he heard a buzzer. His feet hit the ground. The swish of the net was drowned out by the roar of a crowd.
Sinker scores another three-pointer!

He was not the most talented when it came to tactics or maneuvering the court, but if his team could at least get the ball into his hands he would score a three-pointer every time. Thus came his nickname, "Sinker." All he had to do was get into position, he would hear someone call, "Sinker's open!" Then the next thing he knew the ball would be in his hands and as naturally as taking a breath he would release it from his fingertips.
That moment, watching the ball follow the arc to its goal, he truly was a god. He commanded the winds and brought the hurricane, positioning himself in the eye of the storm where nothing could hurt him - where he could be at peace.
However, a new season was coming and the strength of the hurricane would soon be threatened.
The first day of the next semester he went to the gym after classes as always. The team was lined up, a middle-aged black man pacing in front of them. He stopped and pointed to Andy. "You there, you on the team?" The black guy said.
Andy nodded.
"That's Sinker, coach!" One of his teammates said.
"Yeah!” Another enthusiastic teammate added. “He is the star of the team! Wait until you see him shoot!"
"The star huh?" The black guy walked over to Andy. "Well let's get one thing straight, Sinker, I'm Coach Blackman and my word is law. If you listen to me we're going to turn this team into champions."
Everyone's eyes glistened at the thought but then turned as someone spoke up.
"Why should we respect you anyway? You haven't earned our respect!" Someone stepped forward, a new member of the team. "My name's Sal and I don't know who this Stinker fellow is, but everyone listen up! Just leave it to me and I'LL make us champions! Got it?"
"Sal! Don't you talk back to me!" Coach Blackman said. "You better watch your mouth or you'll be learning some real valuable lessons about cooperation! But before that I'm going to earn the team's respect. Also my daughter is re-tarted and my wife left me… Sinker! Where are you going?"
"Locker room to get changed, coach," Andy said. "Sal, how about a one-on-one when I get back?"
Sange folded his arms, the curves of his lean muscles bulging through his skin-tight shirt. "You got it, Stinker."
The other teammates huddled into each other, whispering as they waited for Andy’s return. The new guy, Sal, had been nothing but a bother to them. They could not wait for their star to put the obnoxious new-comer in his place. Stoic Andy, the sinker, always humble, never loud. He was their champion and they couldn’t wait to see him in action!

Coach Blackman decided to wait and let all of this play out. His time in the military gave him a keen understanding of the dynamics among young men. They were like a pack of wolves deciding on the alpha. It would be made clear soon enough. Preventing it would only distract the team's focus, and he needed them focused if he was going to turn them into champions. But first he needed to earn their respect. Also his re-tarted daughter taught him patience and love. That would help him with coaching.
Andy returned to the gym, wearing his basketball shorts and jersey, tying his hair back into a ponytail. He locked eyes with Sal who was stretching his hamstrings, the tension on his muscles showing his peak physical condition. The cut curves of each muscle could lead one to imagine a sculpture meticulously putting every fiber into place - starting at his ankles, ascending through his thighs and stopping at his perfect apple-smooth ass.
Sal grinned, then suddenly hopped to his feet and kicked a ball towards Andy in one smooth motion.
It flew across the gym like a comet blasting through the heavens, but if this was heaven then Andy was a god. His hand reached forward and commanded the cosmic body to an instant stop. Only his jersey and ponytail were affected by the shockwave of the collision, but as master of this realm, he stood firm. The team gasped with amazement, then looked between each other grinning.
“I assume this means that it’s my ball first,” Andy said as he calmly dribbled over to the top of the half circle.
Sal clicked his teeth and walked behind the freethrow line. “Yeah, that way you don’t complain. First to eleven, baskets are one and two points and scoring keeps possession. Must win by two.”
“So I only need to make six shots? Works for me.”
To that Sal laughed, “Check the ball, bitch. You ain't scoring once.”
The entire team leaned in. For a brief moment all was silent in heaven.
Coach Blackman watched, taking note of the two who he expected to be his top players. But first he would have to earn their respect. Also his daughter was re-tarted and his wife left him.
The inimical silence was broken as the ball was bounced to Sal then back to Andy, and just like that the battle between the two titans had begun!

Still trying to think of a title for my sports drama.

"Heaven's Balls" comes to mind but not sure how much I like that.

>no one wants to read my god awful sports anime (but without the gay innuendos)
>they arent clicking my links
>better just post it in the thread in huge ugly walls of text

>>20711640
>He locked eyes with Sal who was stretching his hamstrings, the tension on his muscles showing his peak physical condition. The cut curves of each muscle could lead one to imagine a sculpture meticulously putting every fiber into place - starting at his ankles, ascending through his thighs and stopping at his perfect apple-smooth ass.
Mmf. Sange. You never disappoint.

Maybe "Balls Above the World"

>>20711626
Competently written, but my imagination of events is an anime. Which is what you're going for, but I couldn't finish it. Not my taste .

As for your title, if this is erotica then your puns are fine, but I would go with the crazy long names anime have now.
>I never could love a girl, only Baseball and You

Another day, another word.

>>20711022
This is probably the issue, I'll rewrite it to frame the setting such that he isn't directly complaining about it. What's probably hurting it more is that everyone has heard this kind of complaint before, so it's carrying baggage which obscures the scene I'm trying to set.

Such as the fact that this short story (it's only like 1400 words) takes place in the future.

>>20710157
I think you go into glossing over details too soon. You're doing the classic telling instead of showing. You can find a good balance but starting off if I as a reader think you're going to gloss over the introduction of the character, and not to situate him in a scene right away, then it makes me feel like the story isn't going to engage me properly moving forward.

I found the love letter thing interesting, I think that would be better suited leading directly to a scene rather than you telling me what the MC has to navigate. I'd much prefer you show me.

>>20710202
>The AC was set to cold and only blew air into the corner where the bed was not
>bed was not
what gay grammar is this?

>>20711826
English

I feel like my protagonist has better rapport with his sister than his intended love interest. I think I focused too much on building their relationship. Maybe I should just bite the bullet and have them cross that line. The only things that that are stopping me are the fact that I'd have to write an entirely new dynamic between them and the fact that at the end of the day it's incest which I don't think is very accepted outside of specific audiences.

>>20711911
I'm pretty sure that can only increase your readers. Hell, I'd give it a try too

>>20710816
>>20710855
>>20710881
Have you even read it, or are you just seething?

>>20710881
>Reddit seething
Moot thinks Reddit is better than this craphole

>>20711911
I've planned to have an incest arc for my MC's two children which will force him to make a difficult choice between the nation he's been building all his life or his kids. Right now he stages an execution and has his foreign political ally come in and kidnap them ala Lancelot saving Guinevere from the stake, but I haven't decided what comes next. Maybe the MC starts a war with his ally to save face with his own royal court and nation, or maybe he thinks the royal court will say fuck it, at least those incestuous freaks are out of our castle.

I wrote my first draft quite quickly, with my internal editor mostly shut as I was merely writing the story through. Now that, after some weeks of keeping my distance to the work, I came back to do a read through making notes, I can see there is so much cringeworthy stuff here, and noticing it I tell myself, good job. Not because I have written cringe, but because I notice cringe for what it is. There are so many people who self-publish (I will never self-publish, even if I am never accepted for trad-pub) and they could never tell if their works were cringe.

>>20711826
English. The cool thing about that language is you can move the words around a lot.

>>20711152
you sound like a retard and your book is probably shit
>t-two chapters left, I'm almost done
sorry bucko, you're nowhere near done. now you get to spend as much time editing as you did drafting.

>>20711736
Thanks for the feedback.
It's basketball but I like your title suggestion.
Balls Above the World is kind of growing on me though.
>>20711819
Thanks for the feedback.
I want it to be a short story, 10k words or so, so am attempting to hurry through certain parts. Maybe I shouldn't.

>>20711911
How good a rapport are we talking here? Liking each other and lust are pretty different things in terms of dynamic.

>>20712094
Cool.
I would read.

>>20711911
>the writer is so autistic that even his self-insert can't talk to women

>>20710136
Outline of blog/book
Introduction to bibles and other doctrines
Cults
Their purposes and ours
conceptions of god and the universe, determinism, free will and their implications
pain, pleasure, justice, absence of god etc
Outline of the type of person you may be, the target demographic
Outline of setbacks in life up until now
Things you can do, for your past, present and future
recovery from the past, coping with the present and preparing for the future
Health, Psychology, spiritual, Social, Finance, Career, Recreational, Skills
then a short compiled list/index of conceptions from the main contents
A basic/common timeline of a child to adult and the average development
Compared to a streamlined upbringing of the wealthy and healthy
Avg adult to senior vs productive
What kind of retirement can they face
Confronting god and death

main contents

how does this look?

>>20712261
I wonder how many people will straight up ask me "this ur self insert?" Because I'm trying my best to not write autofiction. At most it is loosely based on people I know well. I might be able to see people claim my first protags ate similar to me but his life motivation is different from me, more supposed to be like my dad and uncles.

>>20712285
Gonna need some more context, bud. Is this fiction, nonfiction or topics for your monthly blog? Im gonna try a twice a month blog with my landing site in a few months.

>>20712289
dont care dont believe, its your self insert and you cant talk to women

>>20712320
NTA, Im southern anon writing about the married couple :]

>>20712333
you are writing incest

>>20712338
Problem, officer? A brother and his sister, the purest representation of himself as the other sex, is the truest love possible.

>>20712358
cringe

>>20712307
nonfiction topics for my book/blog. modern doctrines for the aimless non-believer (or disillusioned follower)

at first i wanted to just explain what i went through, the suffering i experienced and what i understand of the human mind and will.
then, while coping with the passing of my dog, and the announcement of neuralink, the possible futures of humanity and a possible digital afterlife as a techno-cope for the neo-human.
thinking these were all plausible ideas and that determinism has no recourse, i considered that this might not be a bad basis for a cope written by a former high iq winner who can distill physical, emotional and spiritual pain for the average person and anyone who doesnt have time to just think

so it went from a self-help guide to get ahead, to schizo beliefs and then made the jump to modern age doctrines for how to live life in the attempt to either normalize your behaviour and situation or accelerate your development in life through high iq advanced techniques or concepts

the goal isn't even money, i dont even know how ill manage to make tonnes of money from this in the end. the goal is to accelerate the world to become more efficient, effective, less cruel and senseless with less false justice handed out

i figure i can just amass youtube links and tutorials online until something cohesive manifests and i can begin using funds to research and disseminate these ideas until we can all agree on my vision of reality. heh
but really, less suffering, more wisdom. breed until the ubermensch

>>20710145
Just this quote alone make Coolidge top 5 presidents

>>20710136
You did write at least 1000 words today, right anon?

>>20712396
No but I did open the text file and write a few lines about Bertrand Russell and Robert Ingersoll, hoping to make use of them at a later time

I don't like "show don't tell". I prefer when an author describes the feeling of a character than the actions that lead me to find how he feels.

>>20712396
No but I'm going to Starbucks today and hammering to a chapter

>>20712412
You're getting caught up on the most basic, unnuanced piece of advice given to help absolute beginners point their compass west instead of east. It's a guide rail to stop you from falling into the canyon. Once you can tell the difference between a vivid description and a boring, pointless, space-filling description you can graduate from it and stop thinking about it entirely.

>>20712412
Autists typically can't understand human emotions and need to have them fully rationalized to be able to follow the narrative.

>>20712289
Your character doesn't need to resemble you or people you know
Your character should have well defined wants, needs and obstacles to those wants and needs
Your character should have flaws, even if you're drawing from yourself (bad idea)
Even if you're writing romance your character's primary motivation shouldn't be love
>>20711626
Hmm
Slight infodumpy at the beginning - usually you want to get right into the action, which you half-did, you want to characterize through action over description of appearance or past action typically, you introduced a bunch of characters at once without giving the reader something to connect to each one individually
Even though it's "sports" write it as "fight scene" action is my advice
Being concise is extremely difficult and I don't know how I would revise yours, but I feel you could get across your content tighter if you compressed it a little. Make your writing itself a fast thin athlete with striated muscles itself- carrying quickly to it's attacks;easier said than done

The very important/good thing is it hooks the reader(the love part felt irrelevant/too long but that will probably be important later?- we don't know why people confess to him)
When you show people and things happening you want the reader to understand the why, you want a small setup before each payoff instead of making the shot when five guys are guarding you
Uggg, overall I think your writing is nice, I enjoy the energy of competition and coach Blackman ECT, feels gross to armchair critic but uh that's my impression- it was good enough I read the whole thing and felt it was worth talking about

I was hoping to put my money where my mouth is when offering people review
Well fuck
Was it the sex, gore, violence or racism?

>>20712485
I've had this triggered on a piece entirely devoid of graphic content or "offensive material"—it's just a piece of shit website making itself obsolete. Use a different one without a filter.

>>20712491
https://pastebin.com/G4m7Hw8Q
Well chapter 1 is okay
Chapter two has content designed to appeal to women, who make up the majority of fiction readers; something like a rape fantasy, but it's important for the action/characterization

>>20712396
i'm happy if i get 400 words

>>20712338
No its a man an a woman from two different families, the man is an only child (I am not and neither was my dad).
>>20712358
Look here meign. Sure it's legal to marry first cousins in some states but youre likely to get estranged if you try.

>>20712412
It's more fun to see a character's reaction and behavior reveal their feelings
The internal stuff that's interesting is when a character is thinking through how to solve a problem - and you can use that to show tension/feelings
Even though I normally write third person, let's say my character is disgusted by something - I can show the reader how disgusting this thing is and I only need a fraction of a sentence to involve my characters reaction/opinion, letting my readers train of thought connect to the character easily as possible
>>20712366
Write essays, compile essays, rewrite essays, repeat a few times and you're officially a philosopher, congratulations
>>20712320
Having zero social skills is a dialog killer in general
>>20712208
Almost nobody finishes a book, even a messy manuscript, if I got 100k words with a complete arc of trash I would be proud of myself
>>20712095
You are hurting at the cringe, but you made no mistake, you just learned how to write faster and you understand how to write better too. Redraft it or even write a new story altogether, it's painful to see something fall short of your version, but you'll never fly if you can't jump

Why are modern day books so much longer? Heart of Darkness is only 30k words. Even fantasy like LOTR is 100k. Today? Everyone seems to need to write stories with 250k word vomits. Lots of pointless filler?

>>20712451
Thanks anon. Sure it's not about just writing who I know but I take someone and dissect them and give that primary yearning I need for my story. For example one character has a rural poor background with business sense he got later, but keeps to himself like John Wayne style boomers and really desires independence, which forms conflict with his wife. The wife is middle class from a different religious group, timid but desires connection. So far most other characters Ive done have different temperaments, backgrounds and desires so I think I'm doing fine. I do draw from some of my own feelings too of course.

>>20712557
the people who still read books do so out of passion and like them to be longer, as opposed to the past where people read books because there was literally nothing else to do

>>20712557
Depends on genre. Fantasy has retard big books these days and Scifi leans on longer but many other genres are 80k or less.

>>20712557
Why cherrypick that way? Les Miserables wasn't a short book. War and Peace wasn't a short book.

I'm writing for a game and I need some ideas on a situation. The story happens in a japanese school and tackle furyo/yankii (delinquents and stuff) themes. At some point, the MC need to make a captain of the most prolific gang of the school back to school. But this captain ditches school most of the time and the only thing we know about him so far is that he leads a team of muggers. These muggers take the money of the victims but also received the order to mug everyone that has items/goodies related to a specific show (a shitty cartoon or whatever).
So my problem is that I need to make several mission that would make this captain come back to school. I'm thinking of making the MC take a dent in his muging business. But how? I guess stopping people from being mugged would be a first step but I have to make several missions on this and I can't have them be the same ones.
Any ideas?

The game is GTA-like, Bully-like game.

>>20712566
Books were serialized with deadlines back then. Great expectations was given 1 year to complete a story and they were given x amount of space to write in a newspaper. So authors had to be more creative with word choices.

Today? Anyone can word vomit or drag a story on and on and on

>>20710926
The description and world is interesting but your main characters are passive observers atop a tower, you should try to hook your story with a problem, a conflict, a hope a need
Do you really have to open with the perspective of nonhuman like plant people? Both the setting and pov character are novel, but this makes a reader lose their bearing fast. Introduce parts of your world when they are affecting characters personally, however big or small your world is, what matters is it feels alive and dynamic not static, so have stuff happen that shows the traits of your set pieces- if you introduce a massive wall, show it absorbing artillery with ease, show siege engines moving forward and getting broken by shots from above before they can inflict anything but superficial damage
Yeah I know it's armchair commentary but there's your /crit/
>>20710880
It's more fun to take more risks than play it safe, do it
>>20710763
I better get ripped so I can write down syndrome rape romance with full chapter info dumps about countries that never involve themselves in the story- and at least five thirsty fags would say it's good hoping to get my attention

>>20712575
Find out where he lives and put a forged love-letter in his mailbox from the girl he likes, asking him to meet her at school.

>>20712586
I like this one. I might use it for failed attempt since I need to get him out after at least 5 or 6 different missions. Not a single one like that.

>>20712557
Skill issue.
Conciseness is power. Fellowship might be around 100k but there's more there than a whole trilogy of other authors, it feels bigger because it's better written
>>20712563
Once you have defined characters, be sure you make them suffer a lot, that's where the story part comes in
>>20712568
Wizard of earthsea is short and feels big. That's power. Brandon Sanderson's massive tomes are fun but it's like watching a shonen anime, feels like there's just not substance once you finish one, you never feel like you just learned a life lesson through another's eyes from pure entertainment, no matter how enjoyable

Chinaman anon here. Do I single space 12 times new roman? Double space Garamond? What should I be doing?

>>20712607
Well you'd need multiple missions to
1. Find out his weakness (he has a crush)
2. Find out who the girl is
3. Find out where he lives and deliver the letter
That's three missions that aren't even related to the muggings directly.
>>20712614
Times New Roman, font 12, 1,5 spaces for maximum readability.

>>20712617
Thanks, I'm writing it down.

>>20712578
Dickens and even pulp era people were paid by the word, they were word vommiting, it's just they were under pressure of starvation and editorial review, they wrote so much they became good and mastered the craft
A normie who has a 200k first draft "epic" after three years of inconsistent progress will have neither the skill, motivation nor experience of people thrust into "do or die"

>>20712557
>Even fantasy like LOTR is 100k
uh?

>>20712575
he loves his grandma, the woman who raised him
if she found out he was skipping school, she'd nag him to death or worse
so the bad guy loves someone which humanizes him

>>20710708
I think this just showed how questionable /wg/'s critique is.

>>20712646
I might turn this into something else for someone else in the story. But I'd like to use the "use a relative" trope only once in this story.

>>20712609
In my first draft only the protag suffered but now all 4 main chars suffer. Feels way better.

>>20712714
Everyone suffers in mine, but I like to think the protag has everyone except maybe the antagonist and a certain major character beat.

I can't understand the hatred on self-inserts. It's like hating a self-portrait. If it's good writing it doesn't matter if the author used himself to achieve his fantasies or whatever.

>>20712872
It's never good writing, by definition.

>>20710816
>>20710855
>>20711047
I gave the book 4 stars because it's on a scale of /lit/ books I've read, and to be fair, if it even resembles a book, I'll probably give it four stars because it came from /lit/. I had tons of gripes with Xenos Depths, and still gave it 4 stars.

>>20712396
technically yes and no, at some point in my writing I finished my 1700 word chapter, but it was past midnight then, not sure at what point it switched over.

>>20712892
Why?

>>20712614
Single space
Sylfaen 9pt

>>20712892
Fitzgerald and all the great americans do it.

How do I get over the fear of sharing my work with others when the two times I went to writing groups (different groups, mind you) IRL, I had people openly steal my work? I'm not even paranoid about these things, pretty typically. But the theft in this case was brazen (outright stealing phrases and dialogue) and I don't ever feel like working with others or even showing others my stories now, outside of my editor.

>>20712943
Self-inserts are never really introspective and hardly ever will they have faults, as the authors are cowards and vain. Instead of doing a self-insert, you should ask what is it about yourself that makes you demand you put yourself in your own story. Unless the things you're writing about are things you personally witnessed, it's a bad idea. That's how you end up with Star Wars-tier writing.

>>20712903
Coward .

>>20712966
There's a few ideas that are worth protecting. "Jurassic Park" and "Harry Potter." These two ideas made billions of dollars.
But most ideas aren't worth protecting. If you give the same book premise to two different authors you'll come up with two different books.
See if you can join a critique circle where you take turns reading and critiquing each other's work.

>>20712872
A "mary sue" character is often a self-insert by an author who makes himself crazy OP.

>>20712504
Could somebody /crit/ me? I could post the next two chapters too
Looking for any glaring flaws
And what are the strong points of this passage, if any?

Does anyone here use Atticus? I'm thinking of buying it

>>20713066
Nobody here writes or reads anon.

>>20712872
As others have said they are often mary sue characters, and since the authors often don't want to look at themselves and their flaws you end up with characters without them, or they add only superficial flaws to them because they deny they have those flaws in the first place.
But I don't think they are inherently bad, but they so commonly are, so do you really want to write one? Not knowing if you are the same kind of writer who only adds those superficial flaws and doesn't see their own issues.
Often those with personality issues can't see them in themselves.

>>20713059
jurassic park I can see, but harry potter?
that idea is absolutely as derivative as derivative as derivative gets. the idea is absolute bargain basement tier. it was executed competently and it was in the right place at the right time, but the idea is nothing special.

>>20710271
>A story is 99% plot 1% style.
Biggest NGMI of my life, Jesus fucking Christ.

>>20713059
>There's a few ideas that are worth protecting. "Jurassic Park" and "Harry Potter."

This again - "Harry Potter" is not an idea. If you went around to writing groups in the early 90's yelling "Harry Potter" it wouldn't mean anything to anyone. The idea was "boy from our world goes to secret wizard school where he's a hero" and a Iiterally linked you to 20 identically plotted books that predated HP by years the last time you said this.

>>20712966
What kind of groups? I've never seen this happen before so you may be unlucky - still be careful you don't share too much with people that they could just steal it all.

>>20713066
I'll be honest, I didn't finish it, I don't think its overly infodumpy, but its written in a way that I don't care for. overly descriptive maybe? dry? I think some of those fantastical enements are interesting but the scale of it isn't something I enjoy, I read more personal stories though these larger events are still happening in the background of those as well.
I think near the start space river should just be river, it mentioned it being between spheres in the atmosphere. And on that note I think writing spheres followed by atmosphere is a little awkward, i.e I wouldn't say avoid the void I try to avoid things like that, but its more personal style than actual advice.
"To grin was irresistible. Pilf’s eagle eyes confirmed what he had hoped and suspected- all the men on lookout were literally overlooking him. Massive war machines and battleships from The Kingdom of Orion were the foremost fear. The audacity of Pilf’s dinghy was the perfect stealth. His ship was much too small, too insignificant to be feared or noticed. Hard to find what you aren’t looking for."
I would cut out the parts here about the warships and such and just have them overlook his ship because its too small. I assume you included that line because you wanted to bring up the kingdom of Orion, and while it is somewhat of a natural info dump it still feels like the line only exists to mention the kingdom.
I think calling it overly wordy would be my real complaint, but maybe other like it.

>>20712892
Thomas Wolfe's novels are kino and inspired tons of authors. At the very least he's an exception. Basically all of his writing was autofiction with a poetic flair to it.

>>20710995
this, the writing is far from bad, but the names come off a little too heavily in such a small space

>>20713186
The most important feedback you can give is "I lost interest at x point", so thank you, engagement #1

I'm trying to focus on just this guy and his small story instead of big picture
There's no problem cutting out some of that stuff, I have too many notes and am trying to just say the bare basics of what I'm imagining. It's bad to turn simple things into complicated things for no reason
Dry and impersonal is definitely bad, so is wordy

>>20711134
Bumping

>>20710285
I definitely think the first sentence is unique and makes me think. Overall good stuff.

>>20713254
maybe start with a little about who the main character is and why he is going to raid this place?

>>20713081
Wtf that’s not true. F Gardner has written a billion books.

don't post your insane self-fellating style until you've written 10k+ words of it
if you can't sustain it over an extended text, you're wasting your time

>>20713278
I still can’t believe that fag wrote Butterfly and Waldun into his books.

>>20713273
Greed lust wrath loneliness exile, an obvious nonhuman in capability
Don't his actions demonstrate this? He has this whole backstory I'm gonna breadcrumb gradually

>>20713279
If you'll read 10k I'll post 10k, but I'm not going for a special style

>>20713293
yes, those thing are clear, its very obvious he is super human, and with the line "To grin was irresistible" I guessed it could've just been greed as his reasoning.
though I didn't really get the lust, wrath, loneliness, exile. part of it, maybe that was past where I stopped.
and I think I should note that solidifying the air and water was cool and described well.
right now with a sample size of one its possible that most of my complaints are more stylistic and less with the actual writing, I wouldn't start too much editing without a second opinion.

>>20711134
The problem with translations is different languages tend to connote words differently, there are different effects of how they flow and such. You can have direct translation which is more literally capturing a meaning, and then one that takes liberties to bring style back to it with the language it's translated into. Usually, localizations do the latter and more literal is best for academics. Footnotes and endnotes can make up for any major loss. Gothic fiction is great for that even in English because many people dont get the signficance of Gothic fiction until they see the historic and theological references of beliefs we may not share. I'm unaware of any video games that come with endnotes to help people that dont get references that natives would notice. Even for things like Journey to the West an academic who studied Chinese lit told me to read the Waley translation instead of the unabridged literal since the main benefit was scholarly evidence and not especially revelatory.

>>20713042
Do you have a book I can review, or not?

>>20713316
I kinda wanna write more chapters (I started 4 last night) before I do any larger revisions, I love rereading and I can't help making small edits when I see issues/obviously clunky stuff
Lol I guess I only got across greed- I don't need to explain everything right away about his past and motivations, but it could help to show he'll starve or run out of resources if he can't find targets

If you like how I described his power you should really finish the chapter, shit happens

>>20713106
"harry potter" is mostly a combination of boarding school mysteries and sorcerer's apprentice stories.
that's the big idea, combining those two story structures.
it also has sports underdog and rags to riches story structures, but not in every book.
it's obviously a valuable idea in that it made the author billions of dollars.

>>20713288
I saved some of the screenshots of that. It’s hilarious. I’m not too surprised though. JK Rowling and Stephen King getting kidnapped was already a plot point in Call of the Crocodile.

>>20713337
Yeah, right here.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/55593859-call-of-the-crocodile

>>20713361

>>20713361
>>20713368

>>20713361
That whole book is absolutely baffling.

>>20713363
I already did 1 Gardner book and reviewed it. I gave it 1 star. It was Limbo's Rainbow. So Frank, I only do one per writer.

/wg/ really went downhill.

>>20713393
I’ve never even heard of that Gardnerbook. Why is CotC the one that’s mememd so much? I literally never even hear of the others.

>>20713337
Just pick one you haven't read yet.
>>20710440

>>20713424
Because Call of the Crocodile has the most memeable cover.

>>20713424
Because it's the best of the bunch. Look at the other books. Who the fuck wants to read about a bunch of hipsters in an art gallery, mysteries on haunted houses, political intrigue with Greek gods, or a robot waifu getting someone corn dogs?

>>20713059
I don't mean ideas were being stolen. I mean actual dialogue. My character would say something, and then two weeks later at another review, their character would say the same things. The same insults, the same turns of phrases. It was impossible to ignore. I genuinely got the vibe some people go to writer's groups because they want to steal, and they figure if they get their book out first, they're the ones who came up with it.

>>20713456
No Jigoku is the best one. Call of the Arcade is better than Call of the Crocodile too.

>>20713461
I'm talking about the other authors. Gardner is the best author of the bunch.

>>20713352
alright, I went back to finish the story, I would say the main character isn't for me, I don't mind a MC who kills without worrying about it (I love the story of supreme magus) but for me its the taunting and contempt he has for fully human people.
again more of a personal thing, I haven't read it but the story reverend insanity apparently is very popular and the MC in that apparently feeds a teen girl to a bear after making her think he is about to rape her, not that your character seems like he would do such a thing.
the fight with the silver slayer was well done I think, interestingly described and shows that powers seem to have variety to them.
and lastly, is his name Pilf like pilfer? I didn't immediately think about it but with the talk of stealing it clicked for me.

>>20713429
I already started Egregore.

>>20713469
I will give credit where it’s due. Gardner’s books are entertaining. Mostly because of how fucking strange and unpredictable they get.

>>20713107
This made me think about what "style" is. I don't like pointless flare, I think when prose is pretty it's servicing something other than some idea of pure aesthetics even if we can't put our fingers on what exactly. It provides structure and widens what can be communicated efficiently and what kind of thoughts can be triggered in the reader by using a million clever tricks, quick metaphors, vague associations, ambiguity etc.

>>20713474
Never heard of this one. Got to read the first chapter on Amazon

>>20713393
>if it even resembles a book, I'll probably give it four stars because it came from /lit/
Oh sure, break your own rules for a Gardner book.

>>20713358
>it's obviously a valuable idea in that it made the author billions of dollars
You are conflating the idea itself being valuable with the execution of the novel, and the genuine luck in becoming a phenom.

Here's an article to help you understand.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2000/08/05/harry-potters-magical-precursors-cousins-and-possible-influences/cc498ca0-0d9e-4402-ad41-1a256cb76e8d/

>Wizards' Hall by the prolific Jane Yolen. The plot of this slim volume will sound familiar. A young English boy named Henry arrives at wizard school to study spell-making and many of the same magical arts offered at Rowling's Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. Although a novice, Henry--renamed Thornmallow-- possesses a unique quality that saves his new friends from an evil sorcerer who wants to destroy the school and take over the world.
>Published in 1991

>The Secret of Platform Thirteen by Eva Ibbotson, we couldn't put it down. Like Wizard's Hall, it predates the Potter books yet contains remarkably similar elements. First is the magic platform at London's King's Cross Station alluded to in the title, similar to Rowling's "Wizards-Only" Platform Nine and Three-Quarters. Then comes a poorly treated Harry-like boy (truly a kidnapped prince) who lives in a cupboard while a painfully spoiled boy--much like Harry's cousin Dudley Dursley--is idolized by his indulgent mother and indifferent father. Other Rowling-esque characters include a bumbling but good-natured giant who reminded us of Hagrid, the Keeper of the Keys at Hogwarts; a bright girl similar to Harry's classmate Hermione; and eccentric, well-meaning, magical grown-ups reminiscent of Hogwarts professors.
>Published in 1994

> The Dark Is Rising by Susan Cooper (1973). Again there's the similar plot: a contemporary English boy discovers his true destiny on his 11th birthday. He learns that he is the last of the Old Ones (read immortal good wizards) and has powers that he must learn to use in order to save the world from the Dark.

>>20713495
That’s pretty hypocritical. What a bitter loser.

Here's a small portion of the first chapter of a book I'm writing. Well, its the beginning essentially. I've never asked anons for feedback, but Im a good ways into the book and I guess Im just looking for things to consider as I move forward.

https://pastebin.com/ske5JGxg

>>20713495
>>20713507
Yes, "probably" is the key word in there. Garner's book didn't really resemble a book, honestly. Read it for yourself and evaluate it. I gave PB's book 2 stars, because it wasn't really a book either.

>>20713471
Yeah I think I did a good job with that fight- the magic system allows functional variety within consistency - ideally

Yep!
Pilf as in Pilfer
Haha I don't blame you, I made him very flawed- edgy even so the consequences of his actions trigger a horrible tragic fall(the aftermath comprising the bulk of the story)
>>20713517
Lol I'll read urs, take a gander at mine plz

>>20713536
Bullshit. I’ve read Jigoku and that just read like an edgy Goosebumps book.

>>20713536
This is all just cope. You're propping up Boswell to hurt Frank in some petty parasocial revenge and you'll say whatever you need to in order to do it.

>>20713563
Have you read Limbo's Rainbow? Read that. I can't possibly understand what you're up in arms about. What is your malfunction?

>>20713563
Yeah, this. Gardner’s books certainly have their issues. But they’re not incoherent and read like most other pulp fiction.

>>20713574
I have not. But I have read Jigoku and none of what you said is accurate. I was able to follow the plot fine.

>>20713517
It has a bit of an aimless feel
Is it a comedy? Getting the sword back is something introduced he can focus on, and it's interesting how nobody really cares or is that helpful
I don't like the passive descriptions of the environment and the scene mostly lacks punch of much kind- still the stolen sword and the mcs concern/frustration keeps interest well

>>20713536
>not able to understand a fucking Faggot Gardner book

Lmao. Sounds like a reading comprehension issue, mate.

>>20713570
No, I think Boswell wrote a much better book. Boswell's book was comprehensible and legible for starters. There was never a point where I was questioning who was speaking or why. Second, stuff happened in PC, and barely anything happens in LR, if nothing else. Boswell actually did something with his wacky premises, unlike Gardner and his down-the-rabbit-hole. Third, the characters in both books are entirely one-note, but Boswell's had at least a little charm, while Gardner's came off as strange. I can't possibly understand where this seething is coming from. Do you have a book I can review, or not?

>>20713581
Read my review of both books and you'll see the difference. >>20713591
There was nothing redeeming in LR, and it felt so phoned-in and lazy and cynical. Boswell had clearly put some effort in if nothing else. This isn't a debate. You'll have to move on with your life unless you have a book I can review. I'm only interested in talking to authors.

>>20713498
"jurassic park" was a good idea.
let's not get bogged down in semantics
a book idea, or premise, is the basic idea behind the book
i want to write a young adult vampire romance that happens at a high school is a book idea
sure, you can execute the idea in a thousand different ways

>>20713328
I see. It seems to be a thing prevalent in all types of media.
But having spent some time thinking about it, I suppose it's better to be able to read something in a different language with some slight differences than completely missing out on a story because I wouldn't understand it otherwise.

>>20713591
Yeah I see right through you. Buzzwords like "charm" and "effort". I'm sorry Frank didn't want to be your discord friend but you don't need to pretend Boswell is a better writer than him.

>>20713257
Anon that's bait. He didn't actually write it. It's from the prince of nothing series by r scott bakker.

>>20713603
the jurassic park idea was fairly unique
the harry potter one was not
You understand now? omg super unique idea donut steal doesn't apply to wizard school or your vampire romance example.
As far as execution Crichton blows Rowling out of the water, but she writes for literal children. Rowling made more money, in large part, due to luck of the draw. That's how it can be.

>>20713582
Ya, its a comedy. Appreciate your feedback.

You've got a solid little fantasy adventure set up. Is this the beginning of the book? I'd say it maybe spends a little too much real estate on going into what Pilf thinks 'could' happen what he is thinking about in terms of his action. I get some of that is in service to the world building, but I think its a little more engaging if our character just does, without having to really explain why or how, especially at this point.

>>20713601
>cynical

Now I know you’re bullshitting. Gardner’s books are always optimistic.

>thousands have read Gardner's books
>1 person has read Boswell's book and he only did so to review it
Says a lot about charm and effort.

>>20713586
>>not able to understand a fucking Faggot Gardner book
Where did I say that? I understood the work perfectly. Read the review. It's the most comprehensive review of a Gardner book out there.

>>20713631
you're just being difficult
chocolate in milk by itself tastes horrible
i have the idea of adding sugar
now the drink is amazing

>>20713656
No. It says he is Boswell.

>>20713679
This makes sense now. Shitting on Gardner to try to bring attention to your own book. Sad.

>>20713611
>Yeah I see right through you. Buzzwords like "charm" and "effort". I'm sorry Frank didn't want to be your discord friend but you don't need to pretend Boswell is a better writer than him.
He wrote a better book. I don't know what to say.
>>20713654
>Now I know you’re bullshitting. Gardner’s books are always optimistic.
The cynical part was its creation and charging money for what is essentially worse than web serials, not the book itself.
>>20713656
Why are you so up in arms?

I'm not on /wg/ much except when I'm looking for new books to read, but is it always like this?

>>20713635
It's ch1
Maybe there's too much ya
I just want people to understand the why, so the what has meaning, get in the mcs head
I excused myself to not instantly instantly get into the action because there's lots of action in the next several chapters, but that's still interesting to hear because I was trying to jump in
Thanks for the feedback

>>20713659
you're being intentionally obtuse. ignoring the fact that most chocolate already contains sugar, as an analogy it sucks.
Rowling added nothing the exact same fucking formula was used multiple times before she even dreamed of putting letters on the page.

>>20713658
>it’s the most comprehensive review of a Gardner book

No. This probably is. He says Call of the Crocodile is good and akin to Cormac McCarthy in terms of how Gardner writes.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gR_n8win2Vs

>>20713659
>>20713679
Is there a name for this kinf of derangement?

>>20713705

>>20713708
Gardner Derangement Syndrome

>/wg/

>>20713715
>/wg/

>>20713685

>>20713686
You don't care about Boswell charging for his book. Gardner gave his book away for free for months. Boswell refused to give copies out to us because he wanted to milk us for booze money.

Yeah this guys is 100% a boswell alt.

Yeah this guys is 100% a gardner alt.

>>20713730
>drinking money
Whatever happened to that Shitkicker anon? Did he died? Child support?

Boswell isn't even /wg/. He's far more active on reddit. He just came here to shill.

>>20713735
see:
>>20713723

>>20713730
This is true. I got a free copy of Call of the Arcade like that.
>>20713735
So long, gay Boswell!

>>20713730
Boswell wrote a better book. I'm not on /wg/ much, so I didn't know any of this, but that's pretty funny. I paid for both books. You should read them both and tell me which is better. I'm not trying to give you a hard time.

>>20713686
Gardner frequently gives his shit away for free.

>>20713772
That's great.

>>20713409
You can thank more than a few notable people for that. I tried to gatekeep as best as I could.

>>20713591
>>20713586
>>20713767
>>20713756
>>20713735
>>20713723
>>20713772
Make a seperate thread to talk endlessly about the same obscure self-pubbed authors. This thread is supposed to be about our own attempts at writing.

>>20713409
I was just skimming the the first /wg/ thread and the contrast im quality is astounding. I'm seriously considering creating a refugee group on Element or Discord because we are have a new spamming retard here every week it seems.

>>20713767
It's not my fault you don't know the culture of this general.
The fact is Boswell is an imposter. He's a redditor who wandered in here to shill his garbage. He wanted us to pay $8 a copy and refused to give us the book for free despite thanking us for "helping him make it". WAGMI brother!
There's a reason you're the first person here to read it.
You can sit here and say it's (subjectively) better than Gardner's library all day, but the fact is you are giving Boswell friendship points despite being worse than an r/TheDonald interloper.

What's your preferred method for planning a short story? Do you even plan? I've written a couple of micro/short stories but I'm still exploring levels of planning; interested to hear what you do.

>>20713803
They’re writers from /wg/. You don’t suddenly lose /wg/ privileges once you publish.

>>20713822
This. Gardner doesn’t even post here anymore like he used to. It’s obvious that guy would come up in conversations since he’s the most known of us.

>Hello Kitty + delicious = kittylicious

>chuckle + snort = chortle
>flimsy + miserable = mimsy
>slimy + lithe = slithy

>>20713822
>>20713829
This is a Writing General. Writing, as in the verb - the action of writing.

This is not a "gossip about people who have written and also visited 4chan" thread yet half the posts are from what I believe are 2 retards endlessly spamming about that. Go make a proper thread to discuss that. I know you won't though because you want the attention.

>>20713873
Go to another thread if you don’t like people talking about their writing.

>>20713812
It's not my fault you're upset and I really don't understand why you care. I literally came here to review /wg/ books, and that's it. I said, "I'll buy your books, and I'll give them comprehensive reviews," and that's what I did and that's what I'll continue to do, even your book if it ever comes out. I literally only come here today to get new books from /lit/ authors to purchase, read, and review, so I don't know the entire context for why one author is liked and one isn't. I asked for books, and someone suggested Boswell's book to me, and that's it. You are completely twisted out of shape for no reason. I give zero fucks about Boswell, Gardner, etc. Have you written a book I can review or not?

>>20713812
I don't think any of the authors gave their book out for free.

>>20713829
>>20713881
Fuck off Gardner.

>>20713899
Gardner did. That’s how I got my copy of Call of the Arcade.

>think I've been writing 3rd limited all this time
>realize I'm technically writing third omniscient

>On today’s episode of /lit/ Boswell makes an alt on Goodreads and relentlessly samefags on /wg/ in an attempt to ride F Gardner’s coattails and give his own book a good review.

>>20713899
Emily anon put out his pdf for us to download.

>>20713819
Fuck off

>>20713803
>I'm seriously considering creating a refugee group on Element or Discord
never heard of element but if you make a discord I would join at least.
So long as you actually keep it somewhat clean of schizos and drama.
I've seen what happens to generals with discords at times, there is a certain amount of bleed through if the discord drama isn't removed it just infects the thread.

>>20713698
baking cocoa is just pure chocolate

>On today’s episode of /lit/, a random Goodreads review of a book entirely derails a general when medicated schizophrenic Discord troons believe two GR accounts from different countries have been planning a "brutal sting" of /lit/'s shittiest export for 8 months.

>>20713819
I try to think of what I want the concept to be, and a few scenes from it.
I don't know if you would count a 1800 word interlude I wrote to flesh out my world as a short story.
But the things I wanted were to start with normal people because they are hiding who they are, then after the normal part I transitioned into a scene where a character wakes up in a bloodbath as they turned into a werewolf and killed their family, then a small investigation followed by suiting up and chasing them down, ending with where it connects to the main story.
I think the more important part is to decide what you want to do, with a few scenes in mind, and then find out how to connect those scenes with an ending that you like.

>>20713899
Practically every /wg/ anon has given their book out for free.
>Emily anon has done it for Emily Project and his new chinaman book
>Son of the Sun
>Alitzpa
>Gardner
>Nesmer

Boswell is the odd one out, perhaps that can be chalked up to him being an outsider.

>>20713894
Review a /wg/ book next time.

>>20713899
mnmdr uploaded behead all satans onto lit

>>20714021
Stop sulking.

What are some other good writing forums and places of discussion? I like /wg/ but the more eyes to look at a work, the better. Also it can get pretty fucking autistic in here.

>>20714036
If you're serious about your work, go to an actual critique exchange site. Literally any site is better than /wg/ by an enormous margin. Not only that, most work on credit, so you're forced to review, which will help you.

>>20714021
Can I get a QRD on the other /lit/ author’s books? I know about Call of the Crocodile but I’d like to hear about the other ones.

>>20714041
That's why I'm asking anon. I don't know where to start.

>>20713899
Didn't post it here but I've given my book out for free with Amazon kdp promos
I'm too paranoid to share my stuff here and be associated with 4chan since I wanna infiltrate Hollywood eventually

>>20714075
Critique Circle is good.

>>20714060
Seconding this.

>>20714021
wait, Emilyanon and Chinaman anon are one in the same?

What the fuck? They read NOTHING alike.

>>20714060
There’s the Unreal Press. They’re the guys from here who do this podcast.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HsLfrpEAfB8

>>20714307
>>20714307
>>20714307
New thread

>>20713570
So much schizo seething...if only anything you were upset about were remotely true.
>>20713601
The seether that won't let this go, as far as I know, isn't a writer, and his interest in /wg/ is unclear (except for demotivational failed-crab seething).
>>20713730
I posted my 2nd novel in public, for free, and will probably do so with my 1st novel.
Your psycho ranting is the only reason I wouldn't.
>>20713735
>>20713920
As if. You've gone completely mental at this point.
>>20713812
I charge $3 for an e-book. I don't know where you got $8.
Plus, I posted 40% of a near-final version of it in public, for free. I'll post the rest if you stop being psycho.