/lit/ - Literature

Don't care too much for Aristotelianism, trannies are useful idiots for destroying Platonism, spreading différance, destroying essentialism, spreading nominalism and that is all that matters.

gender is a social construct.

>>20701367
How is that useful? Are you a misanthropist?
>>20701410
If so why would you choose to modify it? The traditional gender roles have proven useful.

>>20701340
>>>/pol/

>>20701340
sounds kinda forced bro
men and women have a lot of overlapping shit

Do you know which board you're on?

>>20701410
So was witchcraft.

What about hermaphrodites? Greeks loved those.

>>20701340
This post completely begs the question. The claim is that 'being trans is as logically impossible as left being right', but you don't actually demonstrate how they're the same kind of relationship; you just assert it by making the comparison, and hope that you can overcome the distinction between formal and physical necessity through pure confidence.

Even accepting your conclusion for the sake of argument, why wouldn't trans identity just be a move to a different kind of logic and a different conception of the human, equivalent to dividing up the body in terms of 'top and bottom' instead of 'left and right'?

And, fundamentally, if someone born as a male identifies as female, and is treated as female by society, what bearing would your post even have for anybody? Why would they even care? If someone is 'logically impossible', and yet their life and social world carries on regardless, then what you call 'logical impossibility' seems totally empty.

>Indeed, it necessitates.
'Necessitates' is a transitive verb.

>>20701500
>"I cut my dick off and now I cannot come into relation with the female of the species in such a way as to fulfill the purpose of my biology ... I guess I'm a woman now?"

Very convincing stuff.

>>20701433
>If so why would you choose to modify it?
Because the one you have doesn't fit and you think that the other one will fit better probably

>>20701515
If your conclusion is actually based on a spiritual argument about the purpose of biology, and not the reasoning given in the unintelligible original post, then why didn't you start off by writing about your actual spiritual rationale?

>>20701410
Humans do not have genders. Only words have genders. Being a sissy cuck boy does not a woman make.

>>20701500
>and is treated as female by society
That simply means that people are lying to them. It does not make the lie true.

You are retarded

>>20701500
>identifies as
This phrase should be an automatic permaban

This >>20701487
There is no concrete material border between man and woman, as biology (and modern medicine) is capable of providing hybrids on a continuous spectre between male and female. And during the early stages of embryo development there is no actual difference between future males and females. You could say that cutting your dick off doesn’t turn a male into female (true). However, in general it’s very hard if not impossible to define things, and supposed existence of platonic ideals doesn’t help with this. Especially when you realise that different people put different meaning into the same words.

>>20701569
How can a human come into being without a male and a female?

>>20701529
Because I'm using logic, retard.

>>20701569
>However, in general it’s very hard if not impossible to define things
You should just start the post with "I am a midwit faggot nigger" next time.

>>20701569
The existence of abnormality does not negate normality but establishes it.

>>20701581
But your logic doesn't work and you switched back to intuition when I pointed that out.

>>20701520
But if we are talking about social constructs, the individual isn't the one tasked with modifying these terms, society is. Why would society abandon the useful terms we have always used for the sake of an absolute minority of mentally ill individuals that can barely contribute to society?

>>20701602
You don't need to abandon concepts of masculinity and femininity for trans people

And also, there is no individual changing anything, and the society is made up of individuals

>>20701589
But aren't trans people also an abnormality then?

>>20701578
You tell me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_differentiation_in_humans
By the way, am I right in assuming that you believe that human life starts at conception and aborting it is a murder? Just asking.
>>20701584
Define a chair.
>>20701589
This is meaningless.
>>20701602
These people and their allies comprise the majority of US elite. They contribute quite a lot. Whether it’s a positive contribution is a different question.

>>20701634
It's funny you mention this because the advent of gender ideology has led to a cultural obsession with reifying masculinity/femininity

Stopped reading at "indubidubly"

>>20701650
It's pretty obvious that a fertilized egg should be considered a candidate member of society, in potential. Life is a word completely disconnected from the realities of impregnation and gestation of a fetus.

Also, answer the question.

See, you need a male and a female to reproduce and create another male or female. So, if you cut your cock off and dress in female fashion that doesn't actually make you a female.

>>20701650
>This is meaningless
No, it means that abnormality necessitates normality

>>20701648
No. A "transwoman" is a deluded man. One who has had "reassignment surgery" is a mutilated man. There's nothing to alter the fact that they are men.

>>20701567
based

>>20701672
this. the moment you fall for using their words you've already lost the war.

>>20701657
Not really, but it's pretty gay
I mean it has nothing on the 50s

>>20701662
You need semen and an ovum

>>20701650
>Define a chair.
An object upon which someone can sit and have their back supported (as opposed to a stool which offers no back support)
>hehe but have you considered this except-
I am going to kill you in real life.

>>20701693
So you need a male and female component? See, it's not so hard to admit I'm right.

Things that only exist in your head (gender) are not real.

>>20701672
>not all people are male or female, most people are male or female
>not all women are female, not all men are males, most women are female, most men are males

>>20701699
That has nothing to do with trans

>>20701713
I'm sorry that you're a deluded freakshow.

>>20701716
If you delude yourself into believing you're a woman and then cut off your balls to disconnect yourself from your maleness all you've done is, as a male, cut your balls off.

>>20701724
>>20701725
Having this much trouble arguing with literal trannies is very sad.
>i have no response to the argument however you are deluded so the argument is invalid
There is a name for this you know

>>20701713

>>20701340
Why is it so hard to just let people live their lives?
Why would you put so much energy towards "disproving" trannies, something you hate?
Do you just hate freedom? Why not simply ignore them and demonstrate the superiority of your own way of life by living it?

>>20701741
There is an accumulative dysgneic societal decay in letting freaks multiply and affirm themselves / be affirmed socially and otherwise.

>>20701741
>Why is it so hard to just let people live their lives?
Because I am being made to participate in this lie in real life
>Why would you put so much energy towards "disproving" trannies, something you hate?
See previous point
>Do you just hate freedom?
I love freedom, which is I hate it when people try to impose a bizarre metaphysic on me.
>Why not simply ignore them and demonstrate the superiority of your own way of life by living it?
Because I am forced to participate in the aforementioned lies

>>20701634
You do, though, because as OP explains, the etymology of both terms is entirely Dyadic in origin. From a practical sense, the existence of a "third gender" that is entirely hedonistic in nature is detrimental to the stability of society.
>>20701650
They contribute to the destruction of society, on their own they are unable to establish a functioning society, only taking into account the fact they don't even have the natural inclination for reproduction.

>>20701739
>name

>>20701741
>Do you just hate freedom
Yes i hate freedom

>>20701739
You are literally insane. If you can't recognize it, I doubt anything I can say will help you. And that is what you actually need, mental help.

>>20701747
Freaks cannot multiply, that is the definition of a tranny

>>20701773
If you want trannies to stop existing just let them transition young, they wont reproduce into another generation that way

>>20701773
They multiply by wriggling into the public consciousness and/or molesting kids

>>20701773
they multiply not by reproduction, but by implanting their ideas on others through social coercion or violent force.

>>20701747
You are a cuck

>>20701786
No. Hormonally and surgically mutilating children is evil and it will be stopped.

>>20701759
>the existence of a "third gender" that is entirely hedonistic in nature is detrimental to the stability of society.
There is no need for a third gender, trans people want to fit into the binary, just let them.
>only taking into account the fact they don't even have the natural inclination for reproduction
Not reproducing doesn't make a person bad for a society, gays, virgins, infertile people, and voluntary celibates would all fall on the same group. Wouldn't you say that gay and trans people reproducing more is a bad thing?

>>20701786
That assumes there are a finite number of people who are inwardly disposed to being trans that can be exhausted, but that isn't how it works >>20701789

>>20701786
Why take the effort to fight them, the weak shall perish and the strong shall prevail.

>>20701747
Are you sure that isn't just some advanced alarmism? Moral panics over change are rote.
It feels like you guys are catastrophizing over something that's ultimately a very small issue. What percentage of the pop do trannies even make up? Is 1-3% of people not fitting into their slot a genuine threat to our social structure?

>>20701809
>trans people want to fit into the binary
And they already do, as the sex they were born as, which is immutable.
>just let them.
No. I will not support your delusion. I will not lie and say that you are something you are not. I will never accept your "identity" no matter what, no matter what you say, no matter what you do.

>>20701811
charity

>>20701819
Charity to whom

>>20701789
>>20701810
You dismiss the biological component of being trans, you have never shown proof that trans people are groomed or forced into being trans, people said and still say the same of homosexuals, but really people are just born that way.

>>20701741
that boomer argument worked in the 90s but not now that we have seen that giving them an inch causes them to take miles and miles and miles until everything is fag shit, nigger shit, queer dyke poc women bland boring commie boring crapola

>>20701826
Are fetishes also something you should take into account when determining a persons relation to the sexes?

Jesus Christ, you people are so retarded it physically pains me.

>>20701816
There is no sex binary, there is a gender binary, even if you couldn't change your sex (you can change expressions of your sex with hrt) it doesn't mean you cant change your social gender

>>20701826
>people said and still say the same of homosexuals
theres hard evidence for this

>>20701834
Being trans isnt a fetish anon, who even claimed it to be.

>>20701340
Look at all these mentally ill troon abominations seething lmao

>>20701836
Humans do not have a gender. This is an idea that is made up inside your mind. People acting like it is real not make it real. It's no different than people believing in witchcraft.

>>20701602
it's the regressive right that's kicking and screaming tho

>>20701836
Dr. John Money encouraged the parents of a child who's dick was accidentally cut off in the ritual mutilation ceremony of circumcision to mutilate him further, make a fake vagina, and raise him exclusively as a little girl, along with the hormones and everything.

Turns out from the moment the kid could walk he wanted to be a boy, thought he was a boy, and tried desperately to play with boy toys and act in a boyish fashion. So, to correct this, Dr. Money forced the forced tranny boy to perform and simulate sex acts with his twin brother as a means of reinforcing the female gender construct he'd created. He also filmed it. Both kids killed themselves pretty early into adulthood, with the brother of the forced tranny attempting to speak out about his experiences as much as possible.

Anyway, now you know the lovely origins of the concept of gender! And you will never be a woman.

>>20701845
Me.

>>20701850
And we will keep kicking and screaming until your entire ideology is suppressed.

>>20701852
one empirical observation does not prove a theory, stay seething ;)

>>20701826
People are born disposed to certain behaviors to varying degrees. Whether or not they act on that disposition depends on the environmental pressures the are subjected to. There is fundamentally no difference between what you're saying and "blacks are born for prison."

any reasonable man knows that gender can't be changed, there is no point to argue with people who are driven by sentiments, usually sexual, and would just believe anything which validates their delusions

>>20701856
okay, but you were the one bitching about...

>>20701826
This is disingenuous as any "biological component" does not matter to this ideology. There is no biological test that you will perform to determine is someone is "actually trans". You simply take them at their word and outlaw any counseling that would help them come to terms with their biological sex. Fuck you, you disgusting groomer freak.

>>20701861
uhh yes there is.

>>20701864
why not? It's entirely social.

I've noticed that absolutely no one has even attempted to refute the logic of OP. Therefore, I have won.

>>20701867
Your existence? yes.

>>20701410
A social construct that arose from biology. It wasn't artificially constructed nor can it be destroyed without first destroying the biological differences (which they try but it's not very effective)

>>20701872
oh so where's your PhD in neuroscience?

>>20701879
and about how people have to follow trends or whatever... let me guess, only the stuff you feel comfortable going along with? kek

>>20701340
There are animals that switch sexes or can fill both roles in sexual reproduction you mong.

>>20701833
Where do you live that's like this, downtown San Francisco? I know of one tranny, that's it.
Outside of the pride parade downtown once a year and some logos changing to rainbows for pride month my own life hasn't been infringed on at all. Are the trannies a scapegoat for some other issue?

>>20701884
actual PhD in neurosci here. trannies aren't women and will never be women. kys troon.

>>20701884
>oh so where's your PhD in neuroscience?
I accept your defeat.

>>20701864

>>20701887
blablabla gaslighting
every facet of the media is dripping with AIDS so shut the fuck up.
youre getting no more replies from me so dont bother. youre not a woman.

>>20701873
It's not entirely social

>>20701852
Doctor John Money claimed gender could be changed, he wanted to justify conversion therapy, to do this he wanted to prove he could influence the innate gender identity of a child into being that of the opposite gender. He proved himself wrong and the kid suffered gender dysphoria due to being forced to be a gender he did not identify with.
You agree with John when you claim that trans people are groomed into their gender identity.
If there was no gender as some people here say, then there would be no gender dysphooria and that cis boy would be happy being a woman

>>20701873
>You did a homosexual act, therefore you were born homosexual
>You did a criminal act, therefore you were born a criminal
Why is one of these statements coherent and the other not

>>20701890
>your rights end where my FEELINGS begin

wew

>>20701901
because homosexuals are useful to the elite

>>20701901
Neither of them are

>>20701900
>John sexually abused and mutilated that little boy because he wanted to prove that abusing and mutilating the little boy wouldn't change his gender identity!
My friend, I think you're actually mentally retarded. I'm not even being funny, or sarcastic, I think you should take a real IQ test.

>>20701905
Yep, we will take away your "rights". You got that one correct.

>>20701899
yep it is. You're probably getting it confused with sex and that's a pretty common misconception particulatly amongst chuds

>>20701913
you and what army lmao

>>20701809
>There is no need for a third gender, trans people want to fit into the binary, just let them
So what is it, then? By accepting them into the binary one is undermining the transcendental aspects of the sexes that go beyond mere gratification, you are practically abandoning the "gender roles" for the sake of some of outliers that only benefit from society but cannot meaningfully contribute.
>Not reproducing doesn't make a person bad for a society
Perhaps, but that isn't my original claim, my claim is that they cannot produce a functioning society on their own because they don't posses the will to engage in sexual activities that culminate in pregnancy.
>>20701825
The weak, those that are in a path of self destruction.
>>20701850
Both sides of the spectrum are currently engaging in political struggles, the side of the fags happens to have the support of the main establishment forces.

>>20701912
No, he wanted to prove it would, it did not. I would never agree with Money. Maybe read before you make a strawman about my argument

>>20701662
>you need a male and a female to reproduce
I think it’s very reasonable to expect the invention of artificial wombs within the next century, at which point this sentence would cease to be true.
> if you cut your cock off and dress in female fashion that doesn't actually make you a female.
I don’t disagree with this statement, but the way you proved it from the previous one is ridiculous. Nobody believes that act of cutting your dick is a point of transition from male to female. Most trans advocates would just say that the person was born a female or some gender fluid thing.
>>20701664
This is a thread about a thing existing, not about whether it’s normal or not. Fine, something is not normal, so what?
>>20701698
So you’re a proud idiot. Ok.
>>20701759
A lot of groups wouldn’t be able to establish a functioning reproducing society by themselves. For example, all men.
>>20701874
You can prove anything from a false premise.

>>20701926
The backlash is coming now that people know what you are doing to children in schools. You overplayed your hand.

>>20701934
like you ever stepped in a school lawl

>>20701900
>the kid suffered gender dysphoria due to being forced to be a gender he did not identify with
I'm pretty sure he suffered having his body mutilated, his social interactions with his peers policed, and being forced to have sex with his brother

>>20701931
>male and female exist, and male has to exist for female to exist and vice versa.
I didn't realize facts were false premises, sorry about that.

>>20701901
Its not the homosexual act that makes one gay it's being sexually attracted to the same sex that does. You can be a virgina and gay, you can be raped by a man and be straight, the act doesnt change the biological difference between a same sex attracted person and a heterosexual person

>>20701938
You'll see. You aren't fooling people anymore.

>>20701340
>Why yes, I'm an undergrad who just got exposed to these terms and don't actually know how to use them, how did you know?

As >>20701886 points out, sex is not dyadic in nature, nor is it logically necessary for it to be so. It's obviously possible to imagine switching sexes, so it passes the conceivability test. It also seems entirely possible to give people full sex changes in the future.

This is sci-fi technology now, but a much, much lower bar than FTL, etc. You'd just need a vagina donor or to grow a vagina. The latter, growing organs, is something already experimented with.

Instead of just using hormone injections, there are also conceivable ways to adjust hormone levels long term.

So a man could be given a working, biological vagina in a procedure akin to an organ transplant, breasts, and endogenous female hormone levels. Even producing children using techniques from cloning isn't out of the realm of possibility.

I'm not suggesting this is a set of technologies we will have soon, or even this century, but they're hardly violations of physical laws.

Go figure out what a true binary is and realize you sound dumb. You obviously thought this sounded smart because you posted it twice. It isn't.

>>20701881
It arose from biology as did the LGBTQIA

>>20701931
Define gender.

>>20701949
You clearly literally do not know what a monadic, dyadic, or triadic relation actually are.

>>20701905
you are the one asking for credentials on a basket weaving forum

>>20701947
2 more weeks so scary lmao

The sole fact that you are discussing it furthers their idea. A man can never be a woman and vice versa. Instead of discussing a batshit crazy idea, just say that's impossible and let them kill themselves. How the fuck do you expect to level with someone who denies reality and basic biology?

>>20701962
and you're the one acting like an armchair scientist, so either shit or get off the pot!

>>20701966
I don't understand how anyone can actually believe this crap. It's fucking insanity. Anyone who agrees with trans shit I immediately lose all respect for.

>>20701940
Trans people duffer the same way, puberty makes their body changes in ways oppossed to their gender (sometimes their parents give them srs at birth because they were intersex and basically force a gender on them), they are policed and bullied into gendered behaviour with peers, and sometimes people make trand teens have sex eith prostitutes as a way to "fix them", it happens with gays too, they think just having sex with the opposite sex will make them not gay

>>20701971
maybe you should do some research lmfao

>>20701944
>Sexuality is based on unconscious thoughts
This is an especially retarded view

>>20701928
The "transcendental" aspect is they exist because their parents reproduce, simply because if they didn't they wouldn't be alive, that fact alone says nothing about the existence of trans people

>>20701898
>I don't want to solve the problem, I want to be angry

>>20701973
>they are policed and bullied into gendered behaviour with peers,
They were clearly not bullied enough.

>>20701980
or just stop watching MSM lmao

>>20701973
Ok, so why don't we give sissy low T tranny fags testosterone instead of giving them MORE estrogen?

>>20701985
>EVERYBODY NEEDS TO FIT IN MY LITTLE BOX

>>20701997
You're born in a box and you can't escape it. This is the fact of being a creature. You will never be anything other than a man.

>>20701997
Everyone needs to stop trying to molest my kids, faggot.

>>20701985
It was tried, it makes them more dysphoric

>>20701966
So its also batshit crazy that one half of the children don't die before reaching adolescence anymore

>>20701997
This really is the core issue. These people love order, which isn't a bad thing. However the very existence of people who don't fit into something they once viewed as a concrete aspect of human life is a direct threat to their worldview.
You aren't going to rationally convince someone who's worldview depends on their being right.

>>20702007
Sounds like their fate is simply to suffer until they die. Too bad, but I'll never call you a woman. Because you aren't one.

>>20701569
>However, in general it’s very hard if not impossible to define things
ok, then please refrain from using the words man and woman since you don't know what they mean.

>>20701981
Suicide is not enough? How much do you want to hurt the kids?
>>20702003
What does this even have to do with the post?

>>20702000
yeah but that's quite a bigger box than you're talking about ;)

>>20702013
See
>>20702000
For example

>>20702015
Transition works to reduce the suicide and suicidal ideation rates drastically. Even if they will never be wo.en as you claim, the treatment to stop their suffering exists and should be an option for them.

>>20701564

>>20701931
>A lot of groups wouldn’t be able to establish a functioning reproducing society by themselves. For example, all men
The meaningful difference being: men on their own cannot produce a functioning society not because of their inherent desires, but because the necessary requirements are not present.
Trannies cannot produce a functioning society on their own, because even though they might have the necessary requirements, their inherent desires make it unrealistic. For trannies to start a functioning society, they have to assume the gender roles that go according to their biology, they have to stop being trannies.
>>20701969
When presented to arguments your only response is an appeal to authority, just accept that you can't win against logic and move on.

>>20701713
define woman
define man
define transwoman

>>20702027
I don't care. You will not make me lie and deny the truth for the sake of your mental illness. I will not do it. The consequences do not matter to me.

>>20702013
I think it's just that they don't understand evolution and natural selection, or conversely they just want to hate something

>>20702031
>le appeal to authority
yeah that's generally how science works

>>20702039
Sounds like natural selection is working by giving troons a mental disorder they can only "cure" by removing themselves from the gene pool.

>>20701980
to solve the problem would be to remove the virus. Stop this retarded mental degeneration of the younger generations. Coddling and hugboxes don't fix things.

>>20702045
well that's only a theory

>>20701973
That's sucks or whatever but its' not related to David Steimer. David did not believe he was a boy because it was his "gender identity," he believed he was a boy because he looked like a boy. He did not suffer "gender dysphoria," he suffered having a mutilated neo-vagina while just wishing he could be the boy he knew he was and would have been without ***certain medical professionals.***

>>20702032
A woman is a person that identifies as a woman, just as it has always been just a person we identify as a woman

>>20702034
Ok, just dont call them women and let them be

>>20702042
No

>>20702027
I'd prefer to assume they have some semblance of agency and tell them to get out of their heads and accept who they are.

>>20701997
>I HATE GOD FOR BEING BORN THE WAY I WAS

>>20702058
>science works to confirm MY beliefs

OK, but you don't have to come here crying about it ;)

>>20702034
No one cares. There isn't actually some conspiracy to make you conform. What you're experiencing is social pressure alone, society is moving on with or without your consent.

>>20702045
What is the problem with that then, lol

>>20702053
a definition must be falsifiable and it must not be tautological. This is basic logic. your "definition" is meaningless. Try again.

>>20702066
le heccin skydadorino??

>>20702053
>a woman is a woman
Woah cool. So what's a woman.

>>20702054
I won't let you be either. I'm going to remind you every chance I get that you are not a woman, have never been a woman, and will never be a woman, no matter what you do. You're a walking freakshow and whenever you leave a room everyone is relieved to no longer have to mollycoddle your broken mind. Do you think they don't laugh at you behind your back? Do you think they don't know exactly what you are (a man) when they say "she"? Do you think they aren't viscerally disgusted by the gaping surgical wound between your legs that you pretend is a vagina? Don't make me laugh! Oh I'll laugh anyway, because you are a joke.

>>20702051
If he looked like a girl would it make a difference on if he felt himself to be a boy or not?

>>20701958
No you clearly are the one who doesn't know what it means. Go read your own fucking definition. Now if various plants and animals can have female and male reproductive organs at the same time, or can change what they have over time (or choose to reproduce asexually) then how the fuck is sex a true dyad? Consider too that there is evidence for reproductive strategies where material from multiple sources is used.

Sure, in humans the norm is that biological sex is binary, although even there you have huge variance in phenotypical expression, as well as genetic abnormalities that deviate from this. But that only holds for humans, meaning that the seeming dyad is accidental, not a necessity.

Second, even if sex was a dyad, that doesn't preclude people changing their sex. Look at your fucking examples. My car can be moving fast, then slow. My phone can be to my left, then right.

In fact, your examples are all instances that are defined relatively, which is the point you seem to be trying to argue against, i.e. that phenotypical sex is expressed on a spectrum.

>>20702068
>society blah blah
And? What part of "the consequences don't matter to me" did you not follow?

>>20702077
a miserable pile of jealousy

>>20702061
You assume to understand them better than they understand themselves, so just don't do that? There is a point where it can become harrassment

>>20702067
Do you just not think at all because you don't have the necessary credentials? That must suck.

>>20702086
>Uh but plants and shit, um yeah humans are different but since plants aren't like humans then uh
Your mind is poisoned beyond repair.

>>20702067
I am not the other poster, but science doesnt work thru the appeal to authority, it works through the gathering of data and proposing theories. The appeal to authority is how philosophy works

>>20702086
>Now if various plants and animals can have female and male reproductive organs at the same time, or can change what they have over time (or choose to reproduce asexually) then how the fuck is sex a true dyad?
because they're either in possession of two components of the dyad simultaneously, or they're switching between the two.

You know that dyad means two, right, you gigantic spastic? You are LITERALLY talking to someone who has spent more hours on this facet of logic than you've spent playing video games.

Shut the fuck up.

>>20702091
no, but I don't make grand sweeping statements my butt can't cash and then live my life around them ;)

>>20702090
Maybe they're delusional? There is no reason to hate the body you were born in.

>>20702100
you're the reason we have a reproducibility crisis

>>20702109
biology isn't as straightforward as you think

>>20702075
It's intentionally "meaningless" although not illogical, it should be noted, because the concept is not useful anymore, thanks to all you fuckers stirring controversy about things that don't matter

>>20702109
Well there is if you are trans or if your body causes you constant pain

>>20702105
>I don't make grand sweeping statements my butt can't cash
You literally claim that men can be women and vice versa without ever explaining how.

>>20702116
I'm not the one making butthurt essays on /lit/ about it ;)

>>20702112
Wae

>>20702013
They do fit in the box, they just claim otherwise.
Hypothetically on can conceive a creature of human origin that don't fit in the box, an hermaphrodite that has functioning reproductive organs or something like that, transexuals aren't like this.
>>20702042
If you really think like this, leave, there is no use discussing this with cattle like you. Go be a fag somewhere else.
>>20702068
Society will collapse, and you will be to blame, among others.
>>20702039
Natural selection is at play, yes, there is a set of phenotypical characteristic that are unable to replicate themselves through sexual reproduction, and instead developed means through which they propagate from individual to individual through culture.

>>20702113
How is the concept not usefull anymore? You mean not useful to your retarded ideology?
>>20702112
>biology isn't as straightforward as you think
I'm sorry I didn't know I was talking to a biologist. How can you be born in the wrong body?
>>20702114
Sounds like mania. A problem only weak and detached internet teens willingly deal with.

>>20702130
you first :)

>>20702131
You don't have to be a biologist to understand that you're full of crap

>>20702122
why not? maybe you should. I'd definitely like to see you try and atleast explain your reasoning. Because it seems you guys just keep spinning in circles when confronted with all the holes in your ideology.

>>20702081
I don't know. It sure would make for an interesting and very unethical experiment.

>>20702136
Ok, can you at least explain how I am full of crap then without just going "biology, gotcha"?

>>20702138
uhh I'm not butthurt lmao.

>>20702103
New levels of retardedness

>>20701943
>male and female exist
As well as hermaphrodites.
>>20701954
Nah. I can tell you what I feel it is - a label which classifies a person according to their biological sex and their sexual interests. It’s not a concrete definition and you can easily nitpick it and reduce it to absurd, but that’s not my point.
>>20702016
I can be 99% sure what I mean, which is good enough for most situations, but not good enough to make grandiose philosophical statements like OP does.

>>20701569
And transistors have metastable, non-binary states. Yet here you post.

>>20702147
>prove me wrong!

prove yourself right first

>>20702132
i do not understand why you feel the need to read all of this if it makes you so mad, is this some form of masochism? Why are fags like this?

>>20702156
sorry for triggering you I promise to be better in the future UwU

>>20702131
Its not useful because of the controversy around it including the scientific community

>>20701973
>sometimes their parents give them srs at birth because they were intersex and basically force a gender on them
You people don't even know what intersex is. Intersex is just a term for either boys or girls with certain genital birth defects whether it be an enlarged clitoris or a deformed penis. They aren't both male or female as they can't create both sperm or carry ova. I don't think there has ever been a true "hermaphrodite"

Behold the poor tortured women who just want to live in accordance with their gender identity

>>20702154
You are the one claiming that one thing can be another. How can you ever be born in the wrong body?

>>20701340
Left / Right sides are arbitrary except in symmetrical shapes, which your body is not. Actually, not shapes in the real world are symmetrical as, once you look at a high enough magnification, you will have variations in any boundaries (Mandelbrot).

Top and bottom would then be another dyad, but that leaves you with top-left, bottom-right, etc. Baseball players would be surprised to learn there is only right and left field, where does the center fielder play?

These things can just as easily be seen as tropes, not universals. They can just be names for describing things. Get past ancient phil, there is a thing called nominalism.

Or no dyads exist as actual dyads because they form a contradiction (being/nothing) which results of the sublations of one by the other and a new entity (becoming).

>>20702168
>things should be ignored if they're inconvenient

>>20702173
When you give srs to a kid you chose a gender for them. It is not always the correct one

>>20701602
>Why would society abandon the useful terms we have always used for the sake of an absolute minority of mentally ill individuals that can barely contribute to society?
In the industry I know, tech (and computer science in general), trans people have contributed way more than women. I will gladly use their preferred pronouns if I can beneficiate from their technical expertise. Of course, not every single one of them is like that, but that's how society works.
Same thing with Aspergers, not all of them are very smart, but many are and they contribute a lot.

>>20702078
Christ, who hurt you?
I just don't get this level of vitriol. I literally don't care about anything this much. How do you balance a normal life with this much seethe?

>>20702177
Thats an enby not even a trans woman

>>20702168
first, what controversy?
second, who cares about controversy? Would you tell Copernicus his ideas weren't usefull because they were controversial?

They're just people born in the wrong body. They have an internal sense of being a different gender, bro. Just be nice and respect their wishes ok?

>>20702190
Someone has to tell you the truth.

>>20702130
Based conceptualization of cultural natural selection except for the schizo redpilled conspiracy to conform and saying trannies think "they don't fit in the box"

>>20702189
I will reconsider my opinion, name a few trans contributions to society.

>>20701340
Literally BTFO by
>>20701500

>>20702181
Nominalism asserts that there is abstract objects aren't real, so, if you're a nominalist then you're an anti-phenomenologist which makes you positively retarded.

>Left / Right sides are arbitrary except in symmetrical shapes, which your body is not.
So if I cut you in half and swapped the left side for the right side ... oh wait that's impossible and you're a moron.

>>20702186
sure, you could know better than the doctor. But intersex people are still either male or female.

man, /pol/cels just can't cut it when it comes to actual discussion and argumentation

Stick to your own board

>>20702078

>>20702202
People have fetishes due to complex life experiences? No way!

>>20701500
>is treated as female by society, what bearing would your post even have for anybody? Why would they even care? If someone is 'logically impossible', and yet their life and social world carries on regardless, then what you call 'logical impossibility' seems totally empty.
modern relativism really is hideous when it shows itself in the nude like this, usually you're not supposed to say this part out loud since you're supposed to pretend it's about liberating people and so on

>>20702078

>>20702103
Uh, didn't you just admit men can become women.

In modern usage dyads are mutually exclusive. Possible/impossible. You can't be left and right of something, above and below it. This would be the excluded middle. You're saying both sides can be occupied at once. This is either using an unconventional definition of dyad or just bad reasoning.

But your initial argument claims the dyadic nature of sex means you can't switch sexes or be both, so I think you actually don't know what a dyad is or don't know why ancient philosophers breaking sex into one is refuted by modern biology.

>Inb4 dyads are analytical
Go read Quine

>>20702225
polwhiners are either delusional mental midgets who don't understand the words they use or how definitions work, or they're sociopaths who get off on lying. There are only these possibilities

>>20702078
I-Is it you?

Is Ropenarok finally here?

>>20702238
everyone see's through your

>>20702078
this is literally the end-game of every /pol/ incel argument lmao
I don't care about the opinions of short men.

>>20702246
>-ACK!!!

>>20702237
>But your initial argument claims the dyadic nature of sex means you can't switch sexes or be both
Maybe if you were aware of hypostatic abstraction, which you should go and read up on, you'd cease your childish misapprehension.

>>20702190
He probably has troubles with his sexual desires, that doesn't undermine the descriptive value of his assertions, you will never be a woman, anon.
>>20702211
I don't mention any "schizo" conspiracies, maybe the problem is yours.
Trannies do think that they do not fit in the "box", if we take "box" as the sex they were assigned as birth.

>>20702228
>people call their fetishes "being transgender"

>>20702200
No, copernicus gathered data and made it work together not this metaphysical bullshit for incels

>>20702261
The conspiracy is that people somehow make you conform to "leftism" and that there's some sort of a "dictatorship" of the "politically correct"

>>20702263
it's just logic anon. And what's the controversy with words having meaning. Clear definitions are very important to science, and normal life. Why can't you just define woman?

>>20702263
you only are mad because you disagree with this perspective but you don't have the means to refute it, you should go back to your discord server and maybe plan another raid on /pol/ or something you abhorrent freak.

>>20702262
>people call their fetishes "being transgender"
Not all people with sissy fetishes are trans. Being trans doesn't relate to one's fetish

>>20702275
That's just reality. These people have the privilege of lese majeste meaning if you speak out against them and their beliefs you have marked yourself to be ostracized. And the political structure definitely try's to make one conform to progressivism. After all, that's how you became progressive.

>>2070226
That wasn't the box he was refering to and they don't, since they will change their sexes given the chance. The natural world won't conform to your preconceived ideas, only thing you can do is observe it.

>>20702283
what does it mean to be trans?

>>20702278
This is not /pol/ kekk, find your board

>>20702302
So? people can talk about the inconsistencies of trans ideology anywhere

>>20702275
Well, there are powers at play that wish to promote leftist ideology, do you think that corporations profit when they pander to sexual minorities and oppressed groups?

>>20702221
You're mixing up chirality and left and right as directions

>>20702289
No, the people who think alike will always agree with you and the people who disagree with you will disagree, retard

>>20702277
Feminism has always worked to redifine women, there is no commonly accepted definition of women among feminist because some definitions restrict whst women can be or can do. The term woman has been used as a class for feminists a lot more than it has been used to describe biological functions. For doctors it is more useful to define women by biology, although some people who society considers to be women do not fall in line with the biological definition of women (intersex women). To make one definition for all fields of study would just hurt more than help.

>>20702309
I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at. So what you are saying is that people who agree with me agree with me and people who disagree with me disagree with me. Well, I already know that but it seems like a pointless tautology.

>>20702302
Never claimed that it is, but they likes of you are really passionate about making insipid threads on /pol/, or this very board too. Go do that, and stop crying, okay?

>>20702306
No, they don't. Sometimes they do and thats why you get inclusive media, the main point is being as inclusive as possible so people can't criticize you, but thanks to you poltards it will soon be unprofitable to be inclusive because you will be sabitaged my moles of incel npcs

>>20702314
I'm not asking you to define it in terms of biological function or class. I'm just asking you to define it in a way that is falsifiable and non-tautological. You know, what IT is.

>>20702283
I have yet to see a case of a so-called trans person with a healthy attitude toward sex

>>20701340
Let's assume that OP is correct and trans people are objectively wrong somehow (despite research like https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/ suggesting otherwise). What do you propose to do about it?
We know trans people have increased rates of suicidality and mental illness due to being ostracized and not understood by society at large (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/).). We also know that being accepted as your identified gender, having access to gender affirming help like hormones or surgery dramatically increases mental health for these people. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7494544/))
So for me personally I couldn't care less about if these people are philosophically incorrect or whatever, the medical research clearly shows they're suffering from *something*, and that that *something* can be hugely mitigated quite easily with stuff like hormones, and also just being aware of their existence and respecting them.
As someone who lives alongside others you have a bunch of things like that to keep in mind to keep things running smoothly, people with physical disabilities, mental health etc.

>>20702307
And you're mixing up an abstract concept with a concrete dyad.

>>20702221
>An entire half of metaphysicians are idiots and have no valid points because of simple reasons.
>I am a philosophy expert, n-no I didn't just finish up into Phil, I'm an expert
Dunning Kruger in full effect lol. Even realists appreciate nominalists for bundle theory and ideas on how to avoid pure haeccity/substratum for objects.

>>20702334
Tell them to get out of their heads. Also, ban the internet for anyone below the age of 16.

>>20702334
>What do you propose to do about it?
Nothing, just let people cut their dicks off and be wrong.

I'm just pointing out that for a human to be male it implies there are females, and for a human to be born it requires a male and female.

If you give birth, you're female. If you engender, you are male. If you think otherwise you're retarded. Also, you're retarded if you think people can have "female souls" or whatever religious shit you idiots spin up.

>>20702338
>N-no you

>>20702260
Great argument.

>>20702340
>>An entire half of metaphysicians are idiots and have no valid points because of simple reasons.
Yes, and?

>>20702349
>1+1 = 2
>Heh, nice try kid. I don't even know what those numbers mean. Why don't you, heh, prove it?

>>20701500
> Why would they even care
The answer is that we don’t lol. Every time I see one of these ‘wHy TrAnNiEs ArE iLlOgIcAl’ or ‘WhY tRaNnIeS aReN’t VaLiD’ posts anywhere online I roll my eyes. No amount of seething faux-rationalist manbaby whining can overcome the simple fact of my existence. I live happily as a woman, am respected by my colleagues (who are unaware of my transness), have nice friends, etc. Why should I care if some 19 year old doofus writes a sophomoric screed calling me a logical impossibility? My life is lived, thus livable.

>>20702348
From a religious/metaphysical standpoint, it makes no sense for god/the universe to make a cosmic mistake like putting your soul in the wrong body. You soul can only go where it belongs.

What part of YWNBAW do these fags not undertsnad

>>20702324
>no they don't
>sometimes they do
So what is it?
>thanks to you poltards it will soon be unprofitable to be inclusive
How sad! When will we be seeing this? When will i be able to taste my Hitler-flavored ice cream in the white history month? Two weeks from now?

>>20702356
You shouldn't lie so easily to people. Also, If it doesn't bother you why bother responding?

>>20702355
Yes, your argument was as secure as 1 + 1 = 2, oh amazing genius. It's not that people throughout this thread (I only made one of those posts) haven't BTFO you, we should take your impeccable logic for granted, oh king.

Seriously, you should be embarrassed for thinking this was worth posting twice and its own thread.

>>20702334
Open rehabilitation centers and start actual research, minimize the impact of lgbt propaganda among the general population, persecute instigators and rapists.

>>20702367
And you should be embarrassed not knowing what hypostatic abstraction is, yet having the (lack) of balls needed to argue against a point that requires knowledge of it to fully apprehend.

I know you're not even going to google it, because it would take less than a second and the first thing that shows up is a one sentence explanation of it.

>>20702330
Many of them have had sexual trauma, but it is not inherent to being trans.
>>20702357
Why would a soul have gender? Its not the soul that is in the wrong body, its the brain that rejects the body and hurts the soul. If you were to make an argument about souls for some reason

>>20701340
A ≠ B, If A then ¬B
A: Man
B: Woman
If any trannies say otherwise, they can dilate, sneed, and seethe.

>>20702379
I didn't assume that a soul has a gender, although I'm open to the thought, I said that your soul can only be exactly where it belongs.
>Its not the soul that is in the wrong body, its the brain that rejects the body and hurts the soul.
That's saying that the soul is in the wrong body. The brain is part of your body.

>>20702225
Something very funny about self-assuredly declaring a social phenomenon "illogical", like you're going to disprove the existence of the phenomenon. They've been declared men, but they're still walking around in women's clothing and insisting their name is Daria. What now? If you want to just impose legal restrictions on their behavior, then what is the point of the meandering argument? You may as well say "I hate trannies", it makes no difference.

>>20702404
I hate trannies.

>>20702378
>Mention concept with no context for how it proves your point
>Assume because it sounds fancy no one else could know about it, but don't actually make an argument with the concept at all, just assume the words will show you're smart.
Please genius, explain to me how instead of X or Y person being male, their having the property of maleness fixes your shitty argument.

Actually, show it in formal logic for us. You've claimed to have spent years studying this logic, lets see it.

>>20702398
Well if the souls is meant to be in a body that causes it pain then it must be either to accept the pain or to transition and stop the pain that way

>>20702411
Now we are living

>>20702404
there is a phenomenon of people that identify themselves incorrectly, yes, the point of this thread is that there are people that claim otherwise, they think that they identify themselves correctly when they do not, is this hard for you?

>>20702416
Or to realize that there is no pain and you are delusional. But sure, cut of your dick but don't pretend to be a woman, because you are not.

>>20701340
Logic presupposes a problem in need of a solution exists. but if non-Aristotelian logic can be used to make sense of something as overtly material as gender identity, a dyadic relationship is independent of the identities of two parties. "all trans women are women" cannot be true if "no trans women are women." simultaneously, "some trans women are women" OR "some trans women are not women" are both acceptable claims within this all-or-nothing identity you've assigned. this dyad still holds regardless of the subject's identity. the only thing objective is the relationship between two individuals exist.

>>20702430
You assume that but have no evidence to prove the pain doesn't exist, while there is a lot of evidence to prove trans people are in psychological pain due to their sex. Don't assume you know people better than themselves

>>20702365
Because the anon I replied to correctly guessed how I (and presumably others like me) would feel about the OP post, so I felt like confirming his insightful guess for him. You'll notice that many other manchildren ITT are attempting to make their own sad attempts at logically refuting my existence, and yet I did not reply to any of them.
>noooooooo you have to tell everyone you meet that ur trans or ur hecking lying!!!!!!!!
There is no lie. They perceive a woman because I am a woman. I don't lie about my past either. If someone asks me what I liked to do in high school or if I played any sports etc then I answer truthfully.

>>20702432
Ok but can you please define woman and define "trans woman"?

>>20702442
I'm just not gullible. Get out of your head for once and take a breather. There is no reason to hate your body.

>>20702397
Sure, but this depends entirely on how A and B are defined, and if you assume transmen are not men, then all you've done is beg the question with extra steps.

>>20702443
We aren't saying that you don't exist. We are saying that you are not a woman and never will be a woman. Also, please define woman.

>>20702443
Anyone can lie on the internet lmao.

>>20702451
Ok, then let's ask the important question. What is a woman and what is a man?

>>20702425
"I hate trannies"

>>20702443
>I am a woman
that's a lie.

>>20702469
cool, people hate you too

I hate trannies so much.

>>20702469
I don't hate trannies, at least i don't want to, hatred is for the weak. I merely state the fact that i think trannies are incorrect when they define themselves as a sex they are not, which in turn makes them undesirable, degenerate, and deviant.

>>20702449
You simply assume your view of trans people is correct, just say "i hate trannies" like the rest of them

>>20702413
What point would there be in me formulating a symbolic or diagrammic expression of the argument when you can't even understand it in written form?

>Hurr I'm smarter than you and more educated on this subject
>What, no, I don't know what that means
>How is it fundamental to the subject? Lmao, you're stupid. Prove it.