/lit/ - Literature

“Good morning, sirs,” as sunny golden rays
Within the sky begin to multiply.

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
The slogan 'Press On!' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
-Calvin Coolidge

And yes, that applies to you too, drama queen.

>>20679292
I hope drama queen Anon is okay.

Unrelated, between Wattpad, Scribblehub and Royal Road which is the best to get started on?

I'll reference my entire post, part 1.

I can't write for shit, I am stupidly visual and I can picture everything and if I could draw I'd draw it instead but I can't.

>"To think one would care so much about this, never saw the value"- the man snorted his thoughts aloud- "it's all busywork, it's useless."
>"It's history" - the elderly man replied abruptly - "no need to be brutish about it"
>I was not in the mood for arguing or hearing someone else have at it, abrupt cut to waking life still had me confused. The nature of our expedition, permits still in mind, scheduling, preparation, shipping, hiring and vetting process, eventually came back to my mind. Bureaucracy ocean to get here, months spent waiting for the operation to be looked at after that revised, two couldn't wait to be home again. Mere minutes back into this and I was already pissed off.
>Helicopter blades droning in and out, almost arrhythmical past the cabin. City's a cacophony today, has been for my whole stay.

>Time to cut my silence - "ETA?" - all I want to say, there's this particular headache beating down on me, the sweating was another demon entirely, parboiled in this cabin high above the ground, 5 degrees away from the brazen bull sure enough. Tallest building on this city could barely be seen, dizzying to think about but was never one for the fear of heights, claustrophobia too, never appealed to me in particular.
>"ETA?" - the worker next to me replies automatically, I get that impression from his tone of voice but I might have ignored one or two replies already, I'm yet to feel my brain active again, the altitude or sleep, one of those two has me confused and idiotic. Either that or he doesn't speak my language, there was something funny about his pronunciation, not stilted but didn't strike me as a natural.

""Writer's block""

First

This thread will be better.
>on track to finish 2nd draft next week

>>20679312
Now we talk.

Why am I so shit at this? Should I give up now instead of wasting more time?

>>20679292
What's this? I believe in superiority and inferiority.
I was born inferior, no one in my family is an artist, this clearly signifies that I have no talent for art, my genes are mediocre, genetic trash of humanity.
I told myself that if I failed at this, then I have no justification for my existence, I know what I must do, end my life, I can barely call it a life, it's stopping a process that merely wastes resources and time, it's better for all involved, if you fail at something and you're sure you will never succeed to the mission's standards, then you have no justification to exist. All these people, they are writers by nature, talent is not the word, but genetic determinism, I believe in determinism, I could play Russian Roulette without fear, what will be will be.

My "writing" alone indicates I have no spark.
I don't even know where to start.

>>20679287
You disgust me, if I can't make it to that level at the very least, I have the moral and logical obligation to kill myself, why? No justification.

>>20679340
Isn't spazzing in one thread enough? >>20678375
You're obviously not serious; you're just a drama queen.
Please spare us your nonsense.

>>20679340
Nah I was just waiting for you to show up in the new thread. Now as an actual response to >>20679308
There is no shame in starting out humbly, anon. The writers of Disco Elysium are all very experienced and well versed writers who've with a lot of education and training, but most importantly experience. What you see in yourself now is not the You that can be. You'll never know your true skill unless you keep pushing outside of your current set of skills, and you won't push out of that with this shitty attitude you have right now. Accept you're mediocre - I'd argue that's a good thing - but you don't have to accept you'll always be mediocre. Keep practicing, that's all there is too it.

Or, tl;dr
>Nut up or shut up
>Do or die

>>20679340
Tenth for anime.

This general still suffering a meltdown?

>>20679374
No, it's not enough, I want to improve or I'll kill myself, I'd prefer to live.
>>20679382
Nepotism aside (look more into who's funding Disco Elysium) they are simply too good, I'm just one man.
One talentless man, I don't know what the hell am I thinking.
My role models are too good for me too, Pynchon, Hunter Thompson, Strugatsky, Phillip K Dick, McCarthy.
How can I learn for real anon? I'll be honest, that's the first thing I actually wrote, I have sketches of character designs and systems so that's the entire month. Unlike the anon who wrote something quite funny for his first time >>20659756, I am off to a bad start.
I will never ever make something like Disco Elysium
>>20679374
I am relentless when complaining, you'll never get me to leave. Not a warning. That would imply that you could do something about my presence here.

>>20679434
dude are you good? can you stop complaining in the thread? want me to look at your shit or do you need to talk and vent?

>>20679434
>you'll never get me to leave
Then you admit you're just spamming, and that you have no intention of taking advice.
Why should anyone here pay attention to you at all?

That other anon wrote this on their first attempt
>>20659756
Not perfect, not good, but decent.
I could see him making something like Disco Elysium after say 5 years of proper progress. Not a copy but on that level.
I, instead wrote this on my first attempt >>20679312
I'll be critical and impartial, I would never expect this person to be good, maybe after 90 years of practice, but I am 22, and therefore, I doubt I'll make it to that age, I don't expect to reach 23 or 24 actually.

>>20679442
>>20679441
Read the above and tell me what you think.

>>20679450
I cant rate your writing based on two small paragraphs without context and if there is context already there then youve already bored me to death with the first line. wheres the whole thing?

>>20679466
The entire thing which were two pages, one and a half, I deleted the original file but the printed copy that I made before, just before, I ate it to fuel my anger and feed my self hatred, it was ok.

>>20679473
ok cool, i dont care. write something interesting and ill look at it

>>20679312
Are you upset about the writer's block more than the writing itself? The writing seems fine to me, except the "Bureaucracy Ocean to get here" clause seems unclear. Do you mean the protag has been waiting for months for something to get there so an operation can be performed, and the two others couldn't wait to be home?
As far as writing block, there's a trick to that. Question and Answer. If you feel blank, look at the text and ask a question about it. What comes next? Is there an element of something you wrote that you want to go to next? If you can't answer keep asking more questions. For sake of argument, the next paragraph could be about the protagonist's suspicions about the unnatural language. Let's say when the guy says "educate" he emphasizes the last syllable as if he were French. The protag's suspicion raise another question: is he merely curious about the man's background, or does being French mean something bad to him?
Or let's say you don't go this way and you are more unsure about the scene itself. What is a more important setting, idea, character or event that you want to address in your story? Look at your list of things you're working with if you have an outline. Maybe you look at those things and they aren't hitting you right. What is the missing element? Back up and ask what you want to accomplish, what is supposed to happen? What are you trying to say? Keep abstracting, you can answer these questions and that is your source of creativity, you know what you are doing but you must goad the answer from yourself. This is what Philip K Dick did to break writer's block, by the way.

>>20679434
Okay, pay attention this time.
You've accepted you're bad. That's good. There is no shame in your role models being better than you are. It'd be downright backwards to idolize someone worse than yourself.
As far as learning goes, this thread has some good resources and there should be plenty of guides at a local bookstore. Plus, as a writer, you should also read a lot - how else will you know what good writing looks like if you don't read good writing, am I right? But more important than teachers and resources and books, have a good attitude about learning but more important

PRACTICE
YOUR
WRITING

Albert Einstein wouldn't be remembered by history if he spent his schooldays flicking boogers at people instead of getting good at calculus. The point is you have to practice to get good at something. The only people who can even start to get away with it are true prodigies, and even then they need refinement and guidance to do anything with their great gift. But you're not a prodigy, you're going to have to practice. And most of it is going to be pretty damn bad. But that's fine. You're going to suck for a bit - everyone does when they're starting out. But you're going to suck forever if all you do is sit around and bitch about it.
As for real, practical resources, read the OP and stay in these threads but listen to what people tell you and don't get too argumentative.

I just want to say something in this thread. I ride the subway in new york so I will load up a /lit/ conversation before the service gets spotty-- and every once and awhile, I pick this one. Because this one is so new, I just want to write something that people in a similar position might be reading: stuck in a point of time that would be otherwise worthless, but still hope to get something valuable out of it. My advice is this: read a lot, per Doestoevsky's advice and experience, be your own person, and when in doubt, write it down. Just write it down.

Your voice is important. Let's let it be heard.

Also, on a practical note, go on a typing practice website and use a short story you love as typing practice; it will literally help you transcribe good writing, and help you understand how to read closely.

I hope that you make some art, anon.

l have the urge to write alt-history

>>20679498
How long will it take? That's my problem.
Others will be good in 5 years, maybe even 3 or 2. Me? It will take me decades, why even bother? I was born inferior.

>>20679541
Alt-history with monster girls?

>>20679546
>You'll never know if you don't go
>You'll never shine if you don't glow
Only one way to find out, Drama Queen.

>>20679507
>write it down
I haven't zoned out at work lately, only been a few simple observations this week but last month I was jotting down entire paragraphs on a notepad. I wrote things I feel like I've never thought of, those kinds of fleeting things that might not come back for a while. Sometimes the ideas are dumb but I save it anyways, just in case.
I'm actually closing in on a project I've taken way too long to finish but I'm a few months away from my penultimate draft and will be turning it over for other sets of eyes and then submissions. I have another project to continue when that comes. Really want to get something out there so you all have another novel to enjoy from this general. Might take until next year for print.

>>20679498
>Albert Einstein wouldn't be remembered by history if he spent his schooldays flicking boogers at people instead of getting good at calculus
I definitely won't be remembered, let's be honest.
>>20679485
No, I am upset about the writing, writer's block was my excuse. Defense mechanism because I knew it was bad writing.
I'll say it again, this anon >>20659756 made something way better in his first try, why?

>>20679546
John Milton started Paradise Lost when he was young like you. He didn't finish it until he was almost 70. He wrote other things along the way. You can start on your passion project, but it's helpful to draft a story and then analyze and edit it. You have to get used to scrapping some things you write. You are getting unsure of yourself from the lack of momentum probably, but it's okay to write something that's not that good.

Ray Bradbury had suggested to write one short story every week as practice when you start. That walks you through the process of creating a story in simple terms. Pick one or two elements: setting, idea, character, or event. If it's a setting, write a story about what happens as we go into a setting and then how we get out of the setting. For ideas you are exploring a question that needs an answer. For character you are challenging yearning of that character and see if he will change. An event story disrupts the status quo, then you attempt to understand the event so the status quo can be restored. There are more complicated ways of setting up a story, but starting out just go with something easy like that. Focus mostly on that element.
With enough experience you will get a knack for telling stories, especially if you are reading every day in your genre. It's okay to write something that isn't as good and you don't have to publish it, but use it as practice and you will likely write something cool after a while. You eventually will listen to your intuition, your muse if you will, and surprise yourself.

>>20679576
Okay anon, let me put it like this. You may choose one of the following options;
>2% chance to be remembered in occasionally in niche communities
>0.75% chance to be brought up frequently in niche communities
>0.005% chance to be occasionally remembered in the mainstream
>0.000001% chance to be be remembered frequently in the mainstream
>100% chance no one remembers you ever, at all, because you never wrote anything at all.

This is the last time I'm responding to you this thread, Drama Queen. Change your attitude and embrace your potential as a writing, riding it through thick and thin, or save us all the trouble and shut the fuck up.

>>20679576
There could be lots of reasons why. Maybe he is older or has told or heard plenty of stories, there's no telling. We don't all start off the same but it's not wise to compare yourself with others that way. I had those same worries when I went back to college but instead of worrying about my peers being so keen I spent time with faculty to cultivate my studies and ask them what it takes to make it.
I've been telling you lots of those things. You have to have patience. Keep reading, writing, learning from writers about writing, learning about the language.

Someone help me. Why do is rite like a hischooler? Someone literally compared my work to holden caulfield. Like not the author of the book but the character himself. I just want to write well. Will I ever be a good writer? Is as praised for my writing in highschool but I guess it never progressed

a story about a planet on the edge of the universe where a group of men trek from the northern hemisphere to the southern hemisphere and see stars for the first time

stop responding to this guy, he's clearly just pretending to be a schizo for sympathy

>>20679637
You think you can threaten me with oblivion, past a certain point, no one will be remembered.
You think this can keep up forever? This bullshit civilization, who will remember the greats when humanity is finally extinct (CANT WAIT FOR THE DAY)

>>>/vg/391950507
Could this writing advice be real?

>>20679656
Patience, what if it doesn't work? What if I practice and nothing happens? Then what? Wasted my life then.
>>20679620
I don't know anon, I have to improve to justify my existence, now.

>>20679798
Fuck you, I'm not a schizo.
Tell me what you think of my bad writing.

>>20679798
I say he's more drama-queen than schizo.
>>20679895
You're going back to being a drama queen. Knock it off, you whiner.

every couple months i manage to write something that i really like (generally a character sketch), but only a couple pages or even just a paragraph, but i can never do anything with it once the spontaneous emotional outburst is gone. the feeling is always immediately dead... and so then i can never shape it into something larger that matches the quality of the initial feeling i expressed

anyone else? months can go by before i wake up to another creative spark and forcing myself to write in those periods produces trash

>>20679793
Seems unlikely.
They, and evidently everyone else on the planet, would have to live at the North Pole, and the planet would have to push up against the "edge" of the universe continuously.
Otherwise, the planet wouldn't block the view of all the stars.
Also, one of the possible consequences of 4th-dimensional space-time being curved (i.e. Einstein's special relativity) is that the universe is finite and unbounded, like the 2D surface of our 3D planet.
Space-time curvature could imply that our universe is the 3D surface of a 4D hypersphere, and as such, if you go far enough in one direction, you'll end up where you started.
So, to me, special relativity precludes the universe having an edge.

This is also dangerously close to the idea of the planet Krikkit in the Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy series.
Only there, a cloud of asteroids blocked their view of the rest of the universe, until it didn't one day.

>>20679788
Please respond

>80 words tonight because my best friend whom I haven't seen for over 5 months is back online for a week
It feels so bad but I need to be /live/ mode too to get adequate life experience.

>>20679788
>why do is rite like a hischooler
Your lack of functional literacy could be one reason why.
What do you read? How much do you read?

>>20680027
to answer your question: why do i write like a highschooler?
>>20679788
>Someone help me.
wanting other people to help you instead of helping yourself
>Why do is rite like a hischooler?
you have some really stupid typos
>Someone literally compared my work to holden caulfield.
using "literally" in an unnecessary way. repeating the use of the word "someone"
>Like not the author of the book but the character himself.
clarifying a statement that didn't need clarification.
>I just want to write well.
using "just" unnecessarily
>Will I ever be a good writer?
post an example of your work instead of this ranting
>Is as praised for my writing in highschool but I guess it never progressed
more typos

>>20680046
Why are you being rude to me

I don't see what's so good about the disco game at all

>>20680053
Anon is answering your question, not being rude to you.
Your thin skin, and proneness to being offended, also betrays a high-school mentality.
You're getting your question answered, but you don't like the answer.

>>20680057
so what should I do?

What's a good resource on fairy tales all around the world?

>>20680062
Grow up?
Maybe answer MY question?
>>20680041
What do you read? How much do you read?
My guess is you don't read, or if you do, it's juvenile material.

>>20680088
Nana

>>20680094
Not reading doesn't disqualify you from being a good writer. I can't come up with the desire to read at all does that mean I should give up writing? No

>>20680104
Uhhhh...yes it does.
If you don't read, you don't gain experience with what professional prose looks like.
That should be obvious.
Advising you has officially become a waste of time.

Ugh...high-school-anon and drama-queen-anon in the same night.
I'm out. Time for this grownup to hit the sack.

>>20680124
That's not necessarily true man. I'm just too exhausted to consume any art at all

I don't read books or play games or watch tv or any of that stuff and I'm trying to write a novel with a structure based on the one found in episodic tv anime. Any tips?

>>20680189
When you make the incision remember it's not across the street it's down the lane.

Even if I learn to write like Hunter, Phillip and Pynchon, I don't have their talent.
I suck, I am pathetic.
Artistically cucked with no skill or flame
Deluded pussy, I give up alright

Never posted anything on these types of threads before. I made a bit of a half-assed philosophical piece while sober and gradually progressing into a drug fueled psychosis during a camping trip this year. Here is the first section of my writings, originally penned on a cue card and then typed out:
> As with all camping trips, the eventual question of where one may camp gets brought into question. Being in the outskirts of a hamlet on the banks of North Saskatchewan, our spots were all close to the waterfront.
> Last year, we decided to camp in a beautiful green clearing that – albeit neighbors and trash – was a pleasure to camp in. This time, on the other hand, “we” (And by “we”, I mean the two branches of the family with any sort of damn wealth) chose an ugly, thin strip of land that although accommodating to RVs, lacked all of the wondrous aspects of last years spot – although said spot being a quick trip through the brush away.
> From this, I’ve deducted what makes a good camping spot: squareness, greenness, and treeness.
> First up is squarness. A 450’ squared space is better if it resembles a square than a rectangle. That size as a room is luxorious, but as a hallway? It’s fucking apartment-tier shit. Camping spots ought to be like rooms, not hallways.
> Then there’s greenness. The beige sand that coats the southern edge of our site is the main factor in the worsening of the site. Our old site is lush greens; now green is not a common color in urban construction. If the site is beige, you might as well be homeless.
> Finally is treeness. Although a site with too many trees isn’t a site at all, not enough trees comes back to the aspect of greenness wherein a beige site is just like being homeless. This aspect, where a tree or two should decorate space otherwise walked by campers, makes the camper know he’s not in a city. That feeling, anti-urbanism, is the central force of camping.

>>20680269
Why's re you being a jerk

>Tfw recently through a massive fit and threw out all my manuscripts and all my books in addition to all my musical instruments
Am I one step closer to being a good writer? I lost everything

Tourist from /tg/ here, is this general actually used for its intended purpose, or is it just for your resident schizos to fling shit?

>>20680500
I'll never ever make a good game with fantastic writing because I'm ESL, yeah, french baby.

You guys build an audience yet?

>>20680514
I have an audience here. It is fucking great and all the anons say I’m wonderful. Love this place personally.

>ending feels like it's being rushed
>but i honestly have no idea how to slow it down

How much is 'too' much? My chapters act like little independent stories following the shenanigans of the same characters but I'm worried I'm introducing too many concepts too quickly. Yes, I can make it work quite easily, I've been doing it well enough so far and consistency hasn't been broken. Yes I can manage all of these introduced concepts plus more without any issue. But I just don't want to reader to think "damn, 2 chapters ago the protags were fighting a pregnant dragon, the chapter after they slayed a village full of zombie rats and now in this chapter we're having a dinner party with the ghosts of mermaids. This is too much!" fyi none of those things are in my story but yeah the chapters really are wildly different from one another. It's sorta episodic

Day 33 editing
Chapter 32 didly done
Soon i will verification of my ordainment
Tonight i shall feast on falafel

How do I learn to write

Chinaman anon here. Wish me luck I entered my first page of this contest and wasted $20.

https://gutsygreatnovelist.com/page-one-prize/#

Is it possible to forget how to read? I'm writing a story where a character forgot lol

>>20680731
Yes. Talk to older Chinese people lots of them forget words later in life

>>20679895
>Patience, what if it doesn't work? What if I practice and nothing happens? Then what? Wasted my life then.
Compared to spending most of your day complaining on 4chan? You could've wrote a short story in that time.
>>20680716
Good luck.

>>20680740
>You could've wrote a short story in that time.
A shit one, I give up, I will never make a good game, well written one, was born ESL so I cant.

How do I know if my premise is gay and cringe? It's a post apocalypse

>>20679279
There should be a fourth image where he closes the boot and it's dark.

>>20680743
If you can't even enjoy the process of creating, you really aren't going to make it at all.

>>20680764
That's not a premise for starters.

>>20680771
Just let me know what a gay premise is for that setting

>>20680788
A gay premise would be a premise that's literally gay, or if we're talking about a cringe/lame premise it'd be a premise that doesn't make use of the setting well at all. That's about it.

>>20680801
Give me some examples of bad edgy premises for post apocalypse

>>20679279
"literally real life, might as well read the news instead" tier
>black vs black
muh deep conflicted antihero tier
>grey vs black
muddled gurmtrash tier
>grey vs grey
"I've read the 'elder god tier' meme" tier
>grey vs white
ontological kino tier
>white vs black
TRULY ASCENDED TIER
>white vs white

>>20680931
>white vs white
Standing here I realize

>>20681007
...that I've got clussy fever

update: rewriting chapters is still 1000 times more a pain in the ass and a timesink blackhole than writing chapters

>>20680931
I prefer black vs black. You're an idiot.

>>20681096
>Alien vs Predator
>Freddie vs Jason
>Godzilla vs King Kong
Kino indeed

>>20681154
>Godzilla vs King Kong
>black vs black
Godzilla is a hero for killing that nigger you underage retard

>>20681157
Uhh, anon? King Kong won that fight

>>20681158
>he thinks there's only one movie

>>20681096
Your subjective opinion and shit tastes are wrong
>>20681154
mindless schlock thrillers, not storytelling, more of a theme park ride

Trying to finish my book about Pokemon Jones but I have real writer's block

>>20681215
What's a pokemon jones?

I want to write a book but Daddy, I'm deresssssssssssssseduh!

>>20681259
Just a bit of a story.

>>20681273
Do the male characters suck dick and cock?

>>20681277
I think one of them does

>>20681261
Eat some hot vindaloo and have a chai latte sir.

>>20681283
Based and same.

>>20681285
But Daddy I don't like smelly poo poo people food. Ew Daddy look niggers! Daddy help me, I tried to write something but I just fucked myself with the pen againuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Daddy!

>book is now 80k words
>literally nothing happens in it
>absolutely no progress for any of the character arcs I've got planned
Hahaha

>>20681293
You made it to 80k words at least.

Any advice on writing a cute little girl character

>>20681298
Yeah but what value does that have when I'm just spinning my wheels? I'll either have to rush everything or rewrite all of it.
What a complete waste of seven months.

>>20680655
This is the picaresque form it's a time-honoured tradition (Don Quixote is the classic example; Jack Vance's Cugel's Saga is a 20thC fantasy application). The key might be to intersperse more low-key, reflective, 'breather' episodes if you feel that it's getting too chaotic.

>>20681306
It took you 7 months to write 80 000 words and you haven't even said anything? Maybe you should just stop writing altogether?

>>20681315
Yeah...

>>20681316
Wheeeew okay um what are you trying to say? What's the scope of this thing? Basically Im asking if you have 80 000 wors to waste?

>>20681293
>80k words
>really slow build up, changes in perspective and tone each scene and chapter
>there's only about 4 or 5 turning points where severe consequences occur

>>20681323
So far only chapter 2 feels superfluous to the extent I'd cut it and even then I'd just move bits of it to chapters 1 and 3.
Maybe there's too much dialogue. But people communicating is crucial to this story, otherwise there is no story. The exchange of ideas, those ideas taking root in other minds and blossoming into something else, it all requires these conversations and I refuse to cut them.
I also refuse to cut the 4k word dream sequence with angels having an anime fight because I think it's cool and so did my friend

>>20681393
Please tell me more or even post some I HAVE to read this.

>>20681293
Call it slow burn bitches love slow burn

>>20680323
take the opportunity to write a piece on self-inflicted loss.
>>20681293
This might be a good sign. You need a lot of shit to prune in the editing process.

My background is in English lit and philosophy. I write gay literary/philosophical essays and dumb opinion pieces but have no idea who to submit to. everyone doing this is either on Medium or is an established writer or academic.

Where should I start? I just want to get my stuff submitted and out there

>>20681387
>>20681293
>65k words
>established character conflicts early on that developed and evolve into a huge fight, leaving both parties feeling guilty and thinking over their actions thus far in the story. It is unclear who is right.
>Mystery introduced in first chapter has made steady progress. Hinting at the climax and a tragic ending.
>Villain reveals himself, deepening the conflicts
>Everyone needs to work together now more than ever.
>Breaching into the climax where there is going to be serious heartache for our heros before it resolves.
>They will mourn their losses in the resolution as I set up for the sequel.

Get on my level, bitches.

>>20681302
Yes make them naive and a little chunni
>>20681782
Read pic related especially the essays and nonfiction chapters. Tl;dr you need to put your work where people are and build it up over several years. Don't be in a rush to get things "out there", as rushing a work guarantees its failure.

>>20681401
Sadly, the language barrier prevents me from posting any work here since you wouldn't be able to read it.
The basic premise of the book is that an irreligious journalist begins to study a Christian fringe group (a YEC congregation) and over the course of the book he and his primary contact with the group, the manager of their website, begin to question their own views, ultimately almost reversing positions with the journalist experiencing a spiritual awakening and becoming born again while the other person loses his faith and leaves the group to begin living a normal life.
Since before I started writing it I had figured out the trajectories of their beliefs and what would cause the changes, but the book has just been growing as I branch into other people around them, exploring interpersonal relationships. The Christian MC is just entering into a relationship with someone new to the faith and it's through her confusion and questioning that he himself finally begins to reexamine the fidelity of his beliefs, the atheist MC is in a long-lasting relationship where the woman is the breadwinner since his freelance status and lack of connections often leaves him without regular income, which results in a sort of crisis of masculinity and finding a certain comfort in the "man is the head of the household" style of things afforded by Christian conservatism, which leads to him finding it appealing. The eventual religious experience that causes him to make the leap from cultural Christianity to actually becoming born again is also starting to be set up as early as chapter 3.
I'm trying my best to be evenhanded with both sides, so that it doesn't seem like I'm favoring either position. To start with one MC is a Christian and one is an atheist for the wrong reasons, and by the end they're an atheist and a Christian for the right reasons, if that makes sense.
Also there's a scene of a person masturbating to Robert Crumb's Genesis since it's the closest thing to porn they have access to, and another scene of a person following orders God gave in the Book of Ezekiel and cooking his food over a fire of burning human feces. So there is that.
There's also the flashbacks. The Christian MC has very extensive flashbacks to his childhood and adolescence, for a total of 5 chapters (finished 4 so far) that explain how he ended up in the YEC congregation. I also have one flashback chapter for the other MC that's triggered after he accidentally calls his gf by someone else's name during sex, which results in hilarity.
And then there's the Don Quixote parody of the guy who is trying to prevent wind turbines from being set up in the local area due to the harm they do to bats, part of the journalist MC's crisis of masculinity comes from trying to help him with some carpentry and failing miserably and humiliatingly at even hammering in nails. That chapter was one of my favorites.
All in all I'm enjoying this work immensely, I just don't feel like it's worth a damn.

>>20681873
Sounds like a great read, actually. Definitely literary fiction. I would encourage you to polish it well and send it to publishers. If you spent this much time on it and you know it this well, it is worth a damn and ought to find a home where people can read it.

>>20680310
>albeit neighbors and trash
This sentence needs an overhaul. Doesn't make sense as is. I also hate the word albeit so I'd personally recommend throwing it in the trash where it belongs.
>deducted
should be deduced

>>20681893
Well I'd need to finish it first, but that's the plan. So far I've only shared any of it with three people (my mom, my older brother and my best friend) and the strongest reaction I got was for the chapter where the journalist has a dream about Lucifer's rebellion (the aforementioned anime fight, when Michael smacks Lucifer down the impact causes the Yucatan crater) but I hope there's more in it that'll appeal to people.

>>20680514
Someone here said they like my work. That's it. Never posted anything anywhere else, because I've never finished anything. Either I wasn't happy with what I had or I cuck myself by being afraid of ruining what I had. I know that's a stupid mindset to have since anything is better than leaving it unfinished, but I psyche myself out and give myself writer's block.

>>20681914
Got to get over that shit, bitch.
Nobody is going to care about your first book, alright? It's going to suck, so embrace that and let it take the pressure off. Probably no one will give two fucks about your second book either.
Third book maybe you are learning how it's done, and so on. Eventually you get good.

And here is the thing too, don't get all obsessed over your amazing ideas where you have to do them justice and all that shit. Ideas are cheap, everybody has ideas all day every day. It's like putting value on every breath you breathe like it's something special. know what I'm saying? Stop that shit.

It's all about execution. The only way to get better at execution is to start executing, bitch.

>>20681826
>>20681293
55k words. Short sweet and to the point.

>>20681782
sounds like a good fit for youtube. at least there are a lot of people who post philosophy and opinion piece videos.
zoe bee did a video on how to do this
paper magazines used to take essays, maybe they still do

>>20680279
Why even compare yourself? Just write something that has its own worth, without needing to compare it to an arbitrary list of famous writers.

I'm a beginner with no social media presence and no experience in anything but writing at high school to university level at best. Currently doing a 'safe' program but prospects would be another 3-4 years before I could earn my first paycheck (assuming I stuck around at that direction long enough). I'm hesitant on embarking on writing as source of income but if it could get me out of the dirt and not worry my parents about my future if I found my stride, I'm up for it. I got good grades in English and got praised by my teachers before. Is traditional publishing a good start if I'm thinking of writing short stories?

I'm struggling to capture the innocence of a young child without coming off as cheesy, overly saccharine and/or unrealistic. I want the reader to feel as attached to her as possible before shit hits the fan and she goes through trials of torture that are supposed to hit the reader like a truck. Any recommendations on things to read with good child characters in them? Or advice you can offer in general?

>>20681986
If you go tradition publishing, you'll still want to work on building an audience yourself. Either way, unless you are the rare exception it's going to be a long time before you start making any real money. So be prepared for that.

But do not let your parents talk you out of following your dreams.

>>20681986
i get the sense that there's not much of a market for short stories
maybe on royal road or other similar websites

I FUCKIGN HATE WRITING AAAAAGHHHHH I WANNA PUNCH SOMETHING I WANT TO RAPE A WOMAN

>>20682013
Well, I'm having something of the same issue except my child character is a boy but my approach might help you: Consider how a child views the world and why adults adore them at their best, they see the world with a freshness that's long since faded for us and capture that enthusiasm. So I'd ask you, what simple thing makes this little girl delighted? How does she express her love to the ones around her?

>>20680144
Then how can you possibly gather the energy to produce art?

>>20680500
Some of it is the intended purpose, some of it is naysayers, some of it is just schizos. I haven't been in a while, but a particularly annoying schizo seems to have moved in. He's new, so hopefully he'll leave quick-ish

Why are a majority of self published books fantasy based?

>>20682121
the same reason the majority of YA novels are fantasy

>>20682121
cause it's the most based genre

>>20682125
Explain. There can't be that many manchildren in the world

>>20681826
I am doing litfic, there's no real villain or big fight so my tension is subdued. I was understating my story a bit, but most of the characters are antagonistic friends that also serve as foils. One makes a fateful decision a few chapters after the inciting incident, casting a shadow over the household. After a series of success and failure, the protag makes a decision but his foil challenges him until he backs down. After reveling in his decision, the protag sees the consequences of his action, becomes bitter and takes a desparate action. The consequences of that undo him entirely. I'm not just excited for those scenes but all the anticipation and misdirection leading up to it.

>>20682130
when you value ideas above execution, as amateurs and children are apt to do, the most idea-rich genres will always stick out

>>20682121
They aren't. Most is romance.

>>20682121
>>20682130
Publish a grown up understated novel about being bored and let me know how many reads you get.
Fantasy sells. It doesn't even sell that well, though. Romance is the self-pup daddy.

>>20682128
Fantasy is fun. I'd imagine more people are inspired to write something that's fantastical than something more mundane.

>>20679279
>>The Weekend Novelist, Ray
Where the hell is an EPUB for this? It's out there somewhere (pic rel) but where is it? I don't want to buy a book if it's shit

>>20682146
How come romance always involves some far distance land, a man that's smart, rich, funny, and willing to give up everything for her, and a love triangle with an equally rich, smart, funny, tall, and fit man?

>>20682134
You want to know what I think about that SHIT!?
Sounds like unique character progression and you have a firm grasp on your story. Best of luck to you, anon.

Is contemporary fiction the best genre?

>>20682230
This is like asking if rainbow is the best color

>>20682054
Thanks for the response. I guess perseverance and hard work are the backbone to any progress after all. I don't mind not making much if I got lucky so long as I got my foot on the door. Haven't talked about it to my parents yet but I'm sure they're more relieved that I have something going for myself than see me drag on something I didn't like out of necessity.

>>20682061
Thanks for the advice. I didn't think much about the genre but I do have some ideas that are flexible that I can write about. I'm not knowledgeable when it comes to self publishing. From the looks of it, I need to set up my own payment and donation link? Which of the sites do you recommend from the first post, My guess is Royalroad?

>>20682171
Gee, anon, I do wonder.

I wonder if I should switch to aspiring to be an editor instead of a writer. I know the structures, the mechanics, the bones if you will of what I want for a story but actual execution falls flat.

>>20682171
>why does this porn always feature attractive women and fetish genre specific aspects?

Has a story about a cute girl falling for the biggest most disgusting slob in the world been done yet?

>>20682287
Two fat slobs falling in love hasn't

>>20682282
it was an editor who took a chance on brando sando and bought brando sando's book "elantris".
i'm sure brando sando has made that editor rich.
i don't think there are a lot of editors, certainly not when compared to writers. so you'd have a lot of competition.
an editor gambles on a book. sometimes they hit it big, but a lot of times they break even or lose money.

>>20682287
yeah, that joe abercrombe series "first law."
the guy was horribly tortured, he can't even control his bowel movements.
before he was tortured, he was handsome and had a good future. he thought of dating this girl
somehow the girl winds up with him in the end. she even wipes his butt for him

>>20682108
That's a good approach.
>So I'd ask you, what simple thing makes this little girl delighted?
Quite literally everything. She was heavily sheltered so anyone or anything new makes her brim with excitement. She's a very sensory focused child, who adores all the different sights, sounds, feels and such the world around her has to offer, which extends to the different people she meets. This is where the main conflict comes into play when something makes her deeply fear everything she once loved.
>How does she express her love to the ones around her?
Playing, hugging, dancing, occasionally singing. Also her reliability. She's rather selfless and when she loves someone she'll show them they can count on her to help them with any problem they might have, even if she can't quite grasp that a young child like herself doesn't have the ability to fix the core issue. Although I'm not sure whether this is a realistic mindset for a child to have. I'm still working out her age but I'd say she's in the 7-10 year old bracket.

>positive reader engagement in comments rises
>get good reviews
>lose followers
Someone really needs to make a version of Royal road that isn't entirely for litRPG trash. At this point I'm all but convinced that if I had structured my story in a way that presented stat screens to people and had stupid level up messages it would probably have at least 10 times the following it does. I don't know, it's just frustrating to see people writing absolute fucking garbage blow up because they're willing to shill for review swaps and write the exact same fucking thing that everybody on the entire site is writing. I mean shit, there's a guy sitting on best rated right now with something like 27 pages of content, and six pages of reviews because he went and begged every single person on the website to write him one.
Yes I'm aware there are other sites to post web novels too, the problem is that all of them are fucking garbage. Royal road is garbage too, but it's the least shitty of them in terms of UI and discoverability.

>Man with immortality and time loop powers
>Falls in love with plain woman
>Chooses to go back in time to restart the romance
>Does it over and over again
What can possibly go wrong?

My premises are good and original unlike most people.

>>20682358
You forgot to make it a LitRPG where he's originally kind of ugly and retarded but gradually turns into a gigachad because he's going back in time to start over with higher stats so he can be a better boyfriend/husband (i.e. more attractive and with more money).
The overall message of the story should be that men need to sacrifice for women. Bitches will eat that shit up and you'll make millions.

>>20682380
I was thinking the message was his rejection of death and constant love for her isn't really love but narcissism.

>>20682394
Yeah that's actually a good message though, the primary readers (women) won't get it at best and will hate it at worst. What you're writing can be tooled into perfect wish fulfillment for 4/10 obese roasties who feel inferior on social media, which is the primary reader base for damned near everything these days. If you want to write an actually good story with a good message, be my guest, but you won't be successful.

>>20682228
Thanks. I dont have many characters, only 4 main ones and a few side characters. The first one changes a lot, second changes superficially but I think some readers will find her more or less endearing in how she carries herself, third character changes dramatically as he rights his wrongs, and fourth character never changes at all. That last one I am trying to put love into because at first he was taken at face value until I put in the backstory and motivation.

>rich plot and dialogue ideas flows to me like clockwork from 11:00 AM to 12:30 PM every day I go to work
>feverishly try to capture it all in my phone
>day off, 11:00 AM
>writing is shit and a fraction of the ideas come to me
Why is it like this?

>>20682326
retarded

>>20682415
The girl was a depressed alcoholic anyway

>>20682405
I see... LitRPG it is.

>>20682410
It's alright anon. 40% of men between the ages 18-35 have reported experiencing performance anxiety in the bedroom.

>>20682431
The LitRPG aspect is to attract Gen Z specifically by the way, they read that shit like it's crack cocaine because the average Gen Z reader is too stupid to actually understand character progression and they need it enumerated for them. You could do it without LitRPG, but if you make it a LitRPG it'll take off very easily on certain platforms.

>>20682410
The day job is a front for the brain to work on steadily piecing out your ideas through subconscious connections. When you sit down and have all your thoughts available and easy for you, you have to consciously work through them and I find that's a lot more work. Faster, yes. But a lot more work.

>>20682410
Probably lack of routine to get into the zone. You might need to create a ritual/different setup on where you do your writing.

>>20682443
>Go on /a/
>Watch Bastard! (New anime on Netflix, loved by many on /a/)
>Info dumping constantly
>Power fantasy
>Shit dialogue with more info dumping
>Call it out and criticize it
>Zoomers retort "zoomie can't handle all the information thrown on him"
Holy shit it's all true

>>20682472
Why do zoomers hate zoomers more than any other generation?

>>20682490
The same reason 100IQ+ blacks hate blacks more than any other race.

>>20682338
>Sensory focused
Nice, that and hugging people should go well then. Just try and avoid being too heavy-handed, as in concentrating on the action over beating your readers into thinking she's cute.
>Although I'm not sure whether this is a realistic mindset for a child to have. I'm still working out her age but I'd say she's in the 7-10 year old bracket.
Whether this is realistic or not depends on how your child character is sheltered in my opinion, a princess-like sheltered kid who has everything she wants is probably less realistically helpful unless she was brought up to be a dependable figure as an example.

>>20682472
>trying to criticize Bastard!!
LMAO
You simply can't handle it. I'm sorry, anon.

Writing a book requires maybe 80 bucks for a laptop from Walmart. Making a movie requires a top tier rig capable of editing, the editing software, the camera, the sound system, lights, transportation including attached trailer, amenities like food and water for all the cast, numerous crew members, actors, props, etc etc etc.

Anyone can write a book. Making a movie is gate kept not just by finances but also but the availability of human talent. And even if you have all that there's no guarantee your movie will be watchable due to bad acting or bad story or bad sound etc whereas a "bad book" mostly comes down to grammatical errors which are easy to correct and can be done leisurely.

>>20682550
It's a poorly written show.
>Hurr edgy awesome OP MC naked chicks with fucking and gore
>10/10 right?
It still doesn't dismiss the fact the dialogue is horrible with all the info dumping
>I am a fire user
>I only can use this spell 2 more times
>That's the last number of spells you can use hahaha
>Wrong this is my trump card, because I used this spell instead of my super secret spell I had a single casting of
>nani?!
>Now take over 10 million fairenheit of damage!!!!
>Also here's a shota
I couldn't take it anymore.

>>20682490
Same reason women hate women

>>20682572
Wish I could make a movie.
>>20682575
Why am I shit at writing?>>20679312

>>20682572
barriers to entry to art are always just ways that people convince themselves not to try
if you wanted to make a movie you'd pull together stock footage and make a fake Sans Soleil copy or an allegorical nature documentary about a pretend animal. Working within your means is always possible—pretending like you can't start without infrastructure and support from others is the mindset of somebody who has already decided they are a failure.

Has anyone tried publishing on Kindle Vella?

>>20682581
You avoid periods.

>>20682596
What else?

>>20682575
Yeah, I just told you that. You can't handle it.

>>20682598
That's pretty much it. Your sentences are disjointed and rarely follow a single coherent thought.
Example
>"ETA?" - the worker next to me replies automatically, I get that impression from his tone of voice but I might have ignored one or two replies already, I'm yet to feel my brain active again, the altitude or sleep, one of those two has me confused and idiotic.
What are you focusing on? The worker or sleep deprivation?

>>20682625
The latter.
I'm bad though, horrible at writing, no spark.
What should I do? I want to write good dialogue, lore, branching paths for my game.

>>20682654
Stop writing if you're shit at it. Obviously. Or hire someone else with more talent, drive, and ability than you do.

>>20682661
So I can't learn? I knew it, natural talent is god, determinism, billion years before birth I was here, writing this post, failing, I'll succeed a million years after, no longer relevant at that point.

>>20682672
Nope. Leave now while you still have some dignity left

>>20682696
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
WHY AM I SHIT? THEN? WHY AM I SHIT? WHAT MAKES ME TALENTLESS?

>>20682654
I told you before, it's Q&A. Give each major character a main motivation. If you want branching paths you can either go top-down or bottom up discovering what happens. In other words, decide on cool endings and work your way backwards on how to get there. Or start with character motivations and show choices of things they might do, and discover the consequences as you write. Once you know what happens each branch you can even foreshadow what happens before characters choose. That can greatly satisfy a reader who gets what they want, or a fair surprise them if they werent paying attention.

>>20682703
Please stop shitting up the thread. This isn't a fast board where you have to include unrelated pictures on every post to garner attention, either.

Does online roleplay count as writing practice?

>>20680764
As a creative, you must take the risk of your creation being percieved as cringe. Otherwise, you are pandering, which, in my opinion, is worse--I would rather make something genuine but cringe than fake and "acceptable".

>>20682410
Alright, in all seriousness I've had the same issue and have thought a lot about why that is.

>>20682447
This guy has part of it right

I think another part of it is at home with free time there are, ironically, more distractions. At your job (assuming it's nothing too complicated) you easily fall into a routine where you are kind of on autopilot and getting the job done. There is enough space in your head for your writer brain to stay on in the background and do the writing work.
At home, you are not in auto pilot mode, you have more decisions to make. Are you going to keep your mind on writing, take a few seconds to check your twitter, watch that youtube video, respond to a text, or maybe make a hotdog or some shit cuz your fatass is hungry?

That is why the inspiration seems to fade in your free time.

My solution? When I'm in that mood where I can't write I tell myself to keep my fingers on the keyboard and don't fucking stop even to reread what I got until I have 300 words. Then I can take ten minutes to jerk off or whatever, but whenever I'm done with that, 300 words again. Doesn't matter if its good or not, I'm not allowed to stop typing until its done.

Rinse and repeat.

If I do that enough times I eventually fall into the flow (hopefully) or I end up with 3k words of garbage which is still better than nothing.

On the other hand, days where I have free time and I'm inspired, that's the fucking gold.

>>20680931
Imagine not even knowing it was actually a trope of medieval fiction to say "If we had good king, everything would be good"

>been playing around with an outline for a novel for months
>no more just a couple sentences going over the main story beats
>don't want to start actually writing because I don't know where the story is going and I didn't want to waste my time if it turned out to be going nowhere
>final piece of the puzzle finally fell into my lap today out of nowhere
I should be happy, but fuck, now this means I have no excuse to not to start writing. I gotta do actual fucking work now. This sucks.

>>20682894
If you don't enjoy the writing part you shouldn't be writing.

>>20682894
>now this means I have no excuse
You had no excuses in the first place.
Either write or stop calling yourself a writer, bitch.

>>20682898
I just hate getting started. It takes me forever to find my groove and I get frustrated easily whenever I hit a snag. When I'm fully engaged with my work it's not so bad. It can sometimes even be enjoyable. More than anything though, I like being done with writing and having something to show for it, so I'll put up with the process itself.
>>20682938
I write. I've just never tried writing a novel. I'll start next week.

>>20682100
ok I'm a little better now. I'm making some progress

>>20682944
>I'll start next week.
No, start TODAY faggot.

>only read in English for years to the point it started to fuck with my native language (forgetting vocabulary, mixing words, grammar keeps getting worse, trying to use English structure...)
>my English is still too crappy to write proficiently in it
fuck this shit, it's either I stop reading in English for a while and go back to my native language or I keep reading in English until I forget my native language completely

>>20682944
Starting is always the hardest part, anon. Once you crest that hill, you can enjoy being in the thrust of writing your story, letting your thoughts freely flow from your mind's eye to your medium of choice. It's only through repetition that you can see the forest for the trees as it were. Starting gets easier over time as you taste the heat of writing more and more. That chapter you projected to be, at most, 5k words long will grow to about 12.5k and beyond. Your quality will improve in tandem with the pleasure you find in writing, to say nothing of the bittersweet satisfaction that accompanies blocking in the final lines of your epilogues.

>>20682972
Why? Next week is 3 days away. What difference does 3 days make? I wanna enjoy my weekend.
>>20682982
You're right. Of course you're right, but knowing that doesn't make actually starting any easier.

>>20683014
>Why? Next week is 3 days away. What difference does 3 days make? I wanna enjoy my weekend.
If you write 2000 words a day for those three days that's 6000 words you can have Monday morning instead of 0.

But you want to know something? You won't write 2000 words Monday either. You'll write like 300, get distracted by something, say "at least I did it" and give yourself a very undeserved pat on the back.

I'm going to be checking this thread Monday afternoon and you better have a full fucking chapter done by then.

2000 words a day is just brandosando word vomit.
Write 300-500 words that you are actually going to keep.

>>20683037
It should not take you all day to write 500 words, no matter how good they are.
And yeah, you are going to want to trim down the 2000, tighten them up in editing and all that, but trust me, this is the optimal way to do it.

Quantity over quality in the rough draft then polish it up later and axe the irredeemable parts.

>>20683024
Yeah, I agree with >>20683037 . 500 a day sounds doable. 1000 at a push if you're really feeling it, but fine I'll try to get something down after lunch.

>>20683037
If you have a true vision for your story, 2000 words a day should be easy.

>>20683052
>fine I'll try to get something down after lunch.
Good, now that's better.

While doing a rough draft I actually have a goal of 10k a week, that way I actually can have a couple weak days or even a day off if I got shit to do.

I have crazy writing days on occasion where I'll get like 5k done, but usually its around 2k.

I just had a pair of characters argue for two pages and the readers still have barely any information over what exactly they're arguing
yup, I'm thinking kino

>>20682706
Characters are there, conflict is there, plot is there but dialogue and the writing itself are hard, I don't know how to write it, you know I can. Thanks for the advice though.
>>20682717
Why can't I learn to write? Is it natural born talent?

It's been a while but I've added some more chapters to both my Royal Road stories. Both are slowly coming together. I'm not sure which one I prefer though. But have fun.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/44832/the-fall-years-roswell

https://www.royalroad.com/author-dashboard/dashboard/54765

>>20683054
>2000 words a day should be easy.
Not everyone has the same writing hours in a day (1 hour vs 4). People also have different writing goals (density of prose, etc.).

Also obsessing over word count on daily basis is distracting in my opinion. My system for the last few months is to complete either a chapter per week (~4k words for me) which is a nice balance between quantitative word count and qualitatively concluding a coherent chunk of narrative. I usually finish the chapter or story by Friday night so I can take some time over the weekend to do revisions/polish on the chapter while it's still fresh in my mind.

Which do you think is better? The story has an eerie vibe to it so I'm told so I think one of these might better reflect the tone of the story starting out.

Both images are relevant to content in the first dozen chapters of the story.

Also chapter 15 is out.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/54100/wish-mountain

>>20683125
Are these AI generated? Either way, the first one is far more eye catching.

>>20683137
They're both from sites that give royalty free images. I then crop them in canva, a free software online. Also yeah I think so too, something about eyes/faces that captures people's attention.

>>20683125
Unless you meant the castle was 'the first' one?

>>20683139
Dumb weeb. I was talking about the castle.

>>20683091
My sentences and dialogue tend to lack style in first draft. If you know your plot, finish the first draft then analyze the harder to change parts first in the next draft, any big parts of the plot. Then go again with characterization, then your own style of narration (your tone/mood, flow, literary devices), then a draft to change specific words. You start broad and then drill down. Some authors barely draft and sell but if you draft a lot you will have writing wittier than your own self, because time will be on your side to know the right place to say something.

>>20683099
Here's the thing, 1000 words an hour isn't that hard. Certainly you can do 500 words an hour. So I'm sure you have 2 hours a day even on work nights that's 5000 words in 5 days even if you suck. Then you got the weekend, 2000 words in 4 hours each of those days you're at 9000.
That works out to just under 40k a month.
3 months you got a 120k rough draft. Now spend 3 months editing that shit and in 6 months you got a fully written novel prose and all. That's 2 novels a year, bitch, AND that's doing it as a part time job.

It's not that hard.

>>20683192
This is basically what I do, I have a full-time job, read and write. There are a lot of signed authors who do that today, several of the best modernists and post-modernists lived that way for years early in their career. Cant be an upstart in any profession, most people just have to work their ass off.

>write a really good nicely-flowing sentence
>realize I have no use for it

>>20683280
Throw it in another folder.

How do I come up with more ideas for short stories? So far I have three or four and I'd like closer to ten or so.

>>20683078
kek

>>20683367
Leave your house. Observe people. Eavesdrop on people. Talk to people.

>>20682441
kek
>>20682447
Certainly a piece to the puzzle
>>20682471
With a family, it's difficult to do that without disrupting the flow of the household. Definitely a good idea that's worth considering.
>>20682851
Thanks for taking the time to write this out. I'm sorry you're affected by this problem as well. I will attempt your method on my next day off, three hundred little Spartans at a time. Anything is better than nothing. Truthfully, I haven't had one sit-down session where I felt that golden inspiration.

How would you handle a complete rewrite and restructuring if I've already worked out the plot and arcs and important moments, should I start fresh and try to incorporate what I already have, or start with I have and try to fudge it into a new direction

I have a hard time choosing what's important and what to keep vs what to lose as fluff

>>20682961
made actual progress today
yup, I'm thinking we're all gonna make it

>>20683367
I advise to focus on one element: setting, idea, character or event.
Think of a place and time. Make a story about going there and leaving it. Look at surrounding towns, stores, landscapes. Maybe there is a compelling difference in that place.
For an idea, ask a question. Write a story that you think best illustrates that question. Philosophers and theologians and children ask interesting questions. Be inquisitive and it will take you far.
For a character, explore a dilemma as he is challenged to change how he sees the world. Get inspired by your own struggles or ones of others, struggles are common to all.
Think of an event. Understand the status quo before it and how people would try to restore it or not. I get inspired by history, the news, even town history and twists on other fiction.

>>20683192
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your highest aspiration should be to only write 4k a week. But for me a goal should be very achievable so I can meet it most of the time and exceed it somewhat often.

I'm usually 1k per day and I've had rare 4k word days and weeks where I got 2 chapters out - but between my kids, job, mood, or rare social obligations there is almost always a day a week I can't write much and I don't think you should set goals that make you feel like a failure because you spent a Saturday at the park grilling hot dogs with your buddy.

>>20683443
>With a family, it's difficult to do that without disrupting the flow of the household
I hear you. My youngest is about to change nap schedules so I'm going to have to shift my writing time. Dreading the breakup of my good routine.

>>20683507
Cheers

Is writing fun? Do you enjoy it as a process, or is it the result what you seek.

>>20683634
It's fun if it's straightforward and I'm not suffering a mental breakdown episode

>>20679279
>be me
>need 16k words to hit the 80k novel count
>have a shitload of time
>only need 400 words per day by mid August
>write 60 words yesterday
>write 100 words today
Fuuuuuuggggggg

>>20683634
The result. I fucking hate writing, but I feel compelled.

>>20683538
>I'm usually 1k per day and I've had rare 4k word days
That's madness. Absolutely godlike. How do people write that much? If I have an entire day off it's a miracle if I break 600.

>>20679498
Not the guy you replied to.

I'm fishing for compliments here, just to be clear. I've never had any *formal* training in writing, maybe a [native language] class in highschool, but I wasn't aware I was good at writing back then.
Whenever I do write, and it's not all that much. I've barely written 10000 words in to actual novels, people give me feedback that it's genuinely good. One person said that without editing, my writing was already well-edited and written.

How do I know if that's talent? I feel like I have this gift.

>>20683647
just take one day to write 20k words :)

>>20681293
Why does nothing happen, anon? Tell me why nothing happens.

>>20682013
If you're sensitive to being able to write well, this is going to blow your mind. Writing is self-expression. Take that feeling of that innocent child, just 'feel' it (like a meditative person would 'sit' with their feelings), and then try to give words to that feeling. Don't try to tell me what you're feeling, give me the puzzle pieces that will show me (I know I know, I'm just thinly trying to shill showing and not telling to you) what the feeling is.

If I say:
>Thick green canopy
>Soft and warm rays of sun
>Birds chirping and bathing themselves in puddles on the ground.

It sounds different than:
>Naked trees standing few and far between in the moonlight.
>Cold and sharp wind.
>Silence except for the occasional chirping of a mouse being hunted by an owl.

>>20683653
I wish I was compelled.

>>20683452
why would you have to restructure if the plot is fine?
i've heard of people who don't improve on their rough drafts, they just rewrite the book each time. seems like a lot of work
i have to move a chapter so that it happens later in the book
and i have to change the main character's character arc
those are major revisions

>>20683816
I used to be satisfied with the overall plot and themes (which were very detailed), but now I'm not, I'm wondering if I should nudge what I have towards something better and update everything as I go along, or should I start completely fresh and then look for ways to incorporate what I thought worked previously

>>20683669
Part of it is experience and technique in how to focus. For me it's a combination of method acting (knowing what matters in the scene) in my early drafts, and then focusing on my draft like a critic filling in the missing layers. I generally average 1000 words a day in edits, but my first drafts can be 5000 a day. Most I ever did was 8000 but a good 2000 of it got pruned. Never be afraid of writing something retarded because you can learn from it once you edit. The important thing is having words to work with in the 2nd draft because you have ideas and scenes to critique. Editing nothing to me is scarier than cutting text.

I am stuck. Writing the final two chapters suck.

>>20683517
Good advice, anon, thank you.

Unrelated question, is there a specific guide for establishing characters that you think the audience will become attached to with the sole purpose of killing them or removing them from the story? I know Attack on Titan isn't what most people consider fantastic writing being anime and all, but that's the one part of the show I quite like and would like to capture myself.

>>20683975
>second from final chapter is just pain and loneliness
>final chap is normality and uncertainty
Also goddammit I have to read Where the Crawdad Sings to catch up with my genre. How the hell did so many people get that book for Southern Lit? It's almost 2 million ratings on Goodreads. Granted the author is old PhD researcher but she did nonfiction, its her first fiction. Penguin must meerkatted the hell out of it.

do short stories magazines still exist?

>>20684026
It's your brain. I never understood the need to guides in writing. Are people wanting a list of checkboxes they need to check off to write a story?

Writing isn't that structured. You can write about a girl eating pancakes topped with cum

>>20684026
Read "Character and Viewpoint" by Orson Scott Card. Great book on all kinds of things to consider with characters and how readers will perceive them. In general, you are tweaking character sympathy sliders. If you go 10 on all of them its Mary Sue, 1 on all and no one likes the character and will hate you. A good character needs something: competence, being liked by another or being nice, or actionable. So you can have a character who is mean and not many people like, but he is competent and rarely fails to act when he has to. A character that is a retard but does is best, and he's nice to dogs but not people is okay. A character that is liked by a more likeable person, but is incompetent and rarely acts coukd be good if they grow in competence and begin to take action (basically the reluctant hero).

>>20684048
Yeah but the pickings seem to be slimmer than they were in the past.
>>20684054
It's a specific sort of thing I'm going for, so it'd be nice if there was some existing insight to what makes it work instead of having to replicate the work that lead to the thing working. Not a guide, but I just want to avoid pitfalls and traps that I might not notice otherwise.

>>20683634
>Is writing fun? Do you enjoy it as a process
yes
>is it the result what you seek
finishing a chapter is a great feeling, too

>>20684086
NTA but good reccomendation, I'll have to check that out. I've gotten stuck and altered one of my main characters like 5 times because I kept ending up with an unlikeable alcoholic coward with pretty much 0 redeeming qualities in an effort to make him not have plot armor / mary sue syndrome. Gotta learn to mix in a few positive traits to make him worthy of the name 'protagonist'.

At what point does a speech reach its limit in absurdity? For example, here's a dialogue between a schizo-tier American jingoist and a random stranger on a bus I've written for the express purpose of further explaining my question.

"The American is the ultimate form of life there is. The so called 'amerimutt' is, in reality, the true finality of this existence. Say, do you believe in fate?" The man in the hoodie asked.

"Excuse me?"

"Fate. Hear me, man, is there not an invisible rope bound around our throats and our hearts; yea, a lead that drags us forward no matter our particular wills at that very moment? Do you know where that rope is being pulled towards? America. Not just the idea, but also the country and the people. A hundred years from now, pure-born Canadians will no longer exist. They will be American-Canadians. Angolan-American, Chinese-American, Russian-American, Latvian-American, Argentinian-American. All of the nationalities and races in the world shall be welded together in America, by America, and for America."

"I gotta go."

"Go? Go where? Do you not see that destination sign over yonder? What does it read?"

"America."

"Yes. America. Let me tell you, man, that the greatest and most secret knowledge that man can ever know, is that all things in this universe converges towards America. This is a law more solid than the laws of gravity. There is no greater euphoria than to realize that America is inevitable. This world shall become America as will the next. Look around you, man. Do you not see the dust that forms the stars and banners? I tell you, your continued ignorance of this matter is blasphemous. Almost as blasphemous as your delusions. Yea, your delusions."

The man in the suit shifted.

"Are you sure that this bus will will reach its next stop, and that you shall be free from me by the next hour? Look again. The desert out there, how long have passed by that cactus? That six armed, six pronged, six feet tall cactus. What of the sun? What of the emptiness of this freeway? Do you not see those frozen numbers overhead?" The man in the hoodie leaned forwards, his grin almost phosphorescent in the dark bus.

"You were bound to learn this truth. This enlightenment was given to thee by me a million billion years before this bus did roll."

I'm certain that the usage of such grand metaphors for a country that has not even had its tricentennial yet would add to the absurdity of this dialogue, but how could it be made even more absurd without the reader completely being unable to suspend their disbelief?

>>20682287
Yes, and even more fortunately for you, it's an anime!
It's called "Welcome To The NHK".

>>20680764
write a first chapter and post it, if you reply to me I'll see it.

Is disco elysium good? I've never seen better writing in my life.

>>20684284
no idea, but now i'll buy it on steam. Tell your advertising department, writing things on 4chan is very influential.

>>20682717
>isn't a fast board
Kek. Cope for a dying board.

>>20684296
I'm not advertising I'm just asking

A poem from today. Most concerned about the opening stanzas.

No, none of that ruckus should step past the doormat.
I'm tired, I'm sleeping: so get the driveway clear!
No, don't twist my words: no, I never said that.
Let everyone know who lives here, who lives here.

The aching on one side, on Sundays especially,
The dull tugging stomach-knots following ecstasy,
The clear autumn sky, saying, “Here is your way out,”
All offer a mirror: so put them away now!

Yes, I am an expert: though words are just alright,
Step right up, step to me, O you who abhor me!
Who wills it, who wants it: let him be my guest tonight!
Past crooked frames, peeling paint, let him step towards me!

In soreness like after when he and his love first danced
As mythical creatures that peopled his backyard pranced
He’d toss to a turn and murmur and mutter,
Get up from his nap time and enter another.

His sword was a shapely, magnificent specimen
Not forged by Hephaestus but faultiest chancing
That had in its best days beheaded some better men
Efficiently, modernly, without romancing.

But those were all younger days: then it sat idly
‘Til when it swung slowly, always justifiably,
And chopped up a carrot, or made the trees logs,
Or subdued a eunuch and finished the job.

On asphalt he ventured as faulty as verses
Or barren as bodies that starve their own muscles.
His errant companions would mutter him curses;
He listened instead to the yellow leaves rustle.

At present it was an unbearable burden
To drag through his day’s work what no longer served him,
And cradle it carefully, polish it well,
And ask himself: when do we all go to heaven?

But sometimes a rushing wind rose from the Hudson
And hushing the sounds of the street overhead
Made mincemeat of all of his hopes of a pardon
And battered his body until he was—still alive!

On one night it lifted him out of his context:
He glimpsed the horizon, the stars, and the fairer sex.
That was but a moment: he never told anyone.

So in a last effort to wear out his tires
He drove in a circle for millions of miles
And sent east his heartache to follow the rising sun.

No, no one is worthy—and least he!—to end it.
The wind carries on, just as no one intended,
And disturbs forgetful sleep.

(The Ballad of Tony Soprano)

I finished my first draft of my Chinaman story!!!!

But now for edits and rewrites! Thanks to the anon who did a preliminary beta read.

>>20684174
>At what point does a speech reach its limit in absurdity?
I disagree with this question in principle. Bad dialogue is not bad because it's absurd, but because it doesn't sound good.
If anything, this dialogue hits a few flat notes because it doesn't go far enough. The schizo stranger uses too many stereotyped phrases, too much cold, technical, latinate vocabulary (which should always be minimized), and not enough idiosyncrasies ("amerimutt" is very good: more of that, please.)
Writing is like acting. Writing dialogue is especially like acting. Don't hold back; don't try to control yourself. Let loose and be the vessel letting it come through you. You can edit it later.

>>20684339
Hey wgon, did you check out the character Lee from East of Eden like I mentioned this week? Good jerb btw.

>>20684054
>Are people wanting a list of checkboxes they need to check off to write a story?

Unironically yes. There's different personalities, which I'm not going to go into cognitive functions and myer-briggs, and some people just *really* get a hard on for checkboxes and lists.

>>20684353
Amerimutt is a cliche from 4chan so gives the speaker away as some kind of neet weirdo. It makes the whole schpiel sound derivative imho

>>20684110
You don't have to. You can literally only have him be a bum if you want. There's no rules for writing stories except how people feel about things. So, if you make a character that's just a bum, but you make that *all* they are, something something you have to do something else somewhere else. I can't think. It's late where I am.

>>20684390
Yes, but it's jargon. That's better than the technical, latinate words

>>20684397
>>20684174
You can't write schizophrenic meltdowns, I can, because I've lived them.

>>20684407
Correct.

>>20684284
So what are the best written video games

>>20684284
Read more.

>>20684424
Blacksouls.

>>20683691
you actually write a story and put it up for readers to read rather than having peers blow smoke up your ass. I look forward to reading it

>>20684430
Don't be a dick
>>20684432
I don't play porn stuff

>>20684443
Come for the porn. Stay for the story.

>>20684452
Rpgmaker games are tedious

>>20684472
That's just another point for how strong the writing is. It has established a cult following despite being an RPGmaker game.
Granted, the first game is like a 6.5/10. It's the second game that is the masterpiece.

>>20684463
>>20684467

Thoughts?

>>20684497
I just don't like porn . I'm too old for this kind of black souls thing. You have to respect that. You make me nostalgic for the meme games and works of my youth that we trumpeted as high art.

>looking at the front page of royalroad
>SCP gatcha system in a cultivation world
>its got over 500K views
a title like that sounds like an absolute dumpster fire written by a algorithm.

>>20684504
I hope I'm never too old to jack off to meme games.

I hate robert kurvits for being more talent than I am I admit it. Why can't I learn to write? I wish I went to school for it

>>20684540
Why are you pretending to be me?

Why does writing feel like pulling teeth and I feel physically exhausted after a few paragraphs? I guess I'm just not talented in this thing. God I wish I could have talent

>>20682338
like the other anon said, how she was sheltered matters.
I don't know what your story is, but I think a farm is a good place for what you've wrote in the posts.
it lets you have a reason for her to not know things that would be outside of the small part of the world she knows, while the farm work could instill in her a sense of responsibility from a young age, leading her to be so willing to help others.

When is it acceptable to end dialogue with a full stop instead of a comma? Why isn't full stop the default anyway?

>>20684569
When an action occurs after the dialogue rather than a "he said" scenario. Periods are also used when dialogue is presented as just dialogue.

>>20682346
litRPG is a crutch to me, its why I didn't put it in my story.
but for a writer who wants magic whoosh, bang. pow! but doesn't want to actually think of how or why the magic in their world works its as easy as the system does it.
why does guy X shoot a bigger fireball than guy Y? is it because he understands how combustion works and is injecting a bit of air magic to generate extra oxygen to fuel the fireball? nope! guy X just has a level 10 fireball and 500 in magic power stats.
there is only 1 story I've read, and granted I don't think I am very well read in the genre, where a system actually makes it more interesting, and thats because they explain why the system exists.

>>20684375
Long time ago. If you haven't noticed, the MC is somewhat similiar to Lee. The story I wrote is heavily influenced by Steinbeck and Twain.

Roughin' It, MT's Autobiography East of Eden, Huck Finn, Grapes, Mice, and Cannery Row were books I reread to frame this story.

Also of course Mitchell's Gone with the Wind.

>>20684284
Shit no talent writer here.
I think it's the peak of the medium right now.

>>20684441
Sometimes I just want to have smoke blown up my ass, just leave me man.

You don't always have to be modest and humble.

>>20679340
>>20679434
>>20682654
>>20683091
>>20684545
>>20684617
Why do you have so many pictures of blonde women saved? Some of them are old hags. Do you have a thing for older blonde women? Or are you a shitskin who just obsesses over blonde women?

>>20682817
yes? I think it counts for something.

>>20684642
Lol, what do you think?

>>20682894
I know how you feel, I've day dreamt about writing for months, ideas of individual scenes and how the magic should work, issues of the world, counties and history.
and then one night I just decided that I should just finally write something, anything instead of just thinking about it and siking myself out by thinking of if anyone is going to read it.
so I did, I still am, I probably won't get much of an audience but knowing that anyone at all has read and enjoyed what I've wrote at all is a good feeling.

>>20682975
whatever language it is is worse than English.
USA USA USA

>>20679279
Here's some crap I wrote for a spoken word part in my band's song. It's a song about the apocalypse. Thoughts?

At their cares I laugh
Piteous souls
What is man but a flea?
Floating like gnats
Or burrowed in holes
Plotting their delicate schemes
In choosing a path
Their seek their undoing
Crying and pleading for ruin
The well and infirm
The young and the old
From us they'll receive no reprieve

>>20684657
based
>>20684605
Neat. I need to read Twain more, it's been too long and I might like him more as an adult now. Also it's actually crazy how popular Gone with the Wind is. It's still one of the most beloved romances in America.

>>20684682
Why are you chanting the name of a Spanish-speaking country?

>600 words in
>erased it all since I wasn't happy with it
at least 600 isn't too much thrown away, and I can use the ideas I wanted to get across still.

>>20684758
Don’t embarass yourself performing this anon. Try again

>>20685056
It's really mumbled and obscured by vocal effects, so it doesn't matter. Glad to know it sucks though.

If I samefag a review of my RPG novel on AO3 can people tell? I know the site can read your IP.

>>20684339
Wait... you wrote the Emily project, which was finished around March, and finished a first draft of a new story? What the fuck am I doing?

>>20682856
And it's completely true

I want to write something about a bored ISTP working a boring and unfulfilling government job as he tries to cope with the shithole the modern world has become. Despite having a lot of reference material I can't think of how the plot can go in any good direction.

>1700 words
I need to read it over again and check for errors but I have a killer headache.
remember, anons, you can do it.

Will a novella sell?

>>20685516
Consider "Whatever" by Houellebecq as inspiration.

>>20683181
Thanks for the advice, so what do you think makes good writing on a videogame?
Maybe I'm limiting myself by wanting to be literary when I can't do it.

>>20685540
Yes, but yours won’t.

/wg/, I'm having trouble writing lately. I get overwhelmed by the amount of work I have to do and failing to do it makes the whole process even more intimidating the next time around. It's gotten to the point where it's starting to turn into a phobia

>>20682898
This is shit advice. Writing is hard, unpleasant, and sometimes feels like running on a treadmill going nowhere. I've seen more actual writers say this than the opposite.
It's not about liking it, it's about doing it.
>>20683644

>>20686421
new

What do you use for writing?
Pen and paper?
Typewriter?
Laptop?
Desktop?

I just want to keep distraction to a minimum.

I've been writing lesbian bondage novels for years for fun. I have a ton of them now. What's the best way to try to make money off of them?
I take it royal road does not allow erotica so is there a similar website which does?