/lit/ - Literature

Just got a pocket-sized ESV with the NT, Psalms and Proverbs. I have been enjoying it. Would recommend, especially since it’s so easy to carry around and read when you’re bored or waiting around

have you read the third part of the trilogy?

Bump

Are we back to Bible generals since the news jannies? Cringe OP though

>>20670375
No, you're thinking of the Epic of Gilgamesh

>>20670375
it is the most influential piece of literature, though it's far too fractured and inconsistent to be the best. there are moments of incredible beauty like the creation, the story of joseph, job, the teachings of jesus, the imagery of revelations etc. but it's also very clearly a messy stapling together of various texts into an incoherent and sometimes contradictory whole.

>>20671930
The Bible does not have contradictions, reddit

>>20671586
The Bible is much older.

Which version the Catholic Church uses? I read that it isn't the KJV.

>But Jesus saw through their hypocrisy and said, “Why are you testing Me? Bring Me a denarius to inspect.”
>And they brought one. And he said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” They said to him, “Caesar’s.”
>Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” And they marveled at him.
Is he saying ‘pay your taxes’ or is he subtly implying that everything is God’s? ‘The things that are God’s’ is everything that is exists. Even Caesar’s likeness on the coin is the image and likeness of God.

>>20670390
truly one of the greatest purchases ive made for myself too

>>20670375
What does it mean that the Holy Spirit "indwells"? Is that because every person is born with a body, soul, spirit? In that case, was the Holy Spirit incarnated in the immanent world before Jesus Christ was?

>>20672417
Holy Spirit is to spirit as Eucharist is to bread. Poor in Spirit is wordly intelligence tldr

>>20672199
Dhouay Rheims traditionally. They have 12 more books in it

>>20670375
>through divine revelation from God
I know you're just shitposting, but the Christians who really believe this are the ones pushing normies away from religion.

>>20672417
The Holy Spirit has never been ‘incarnate’, and was not active in the world the same way before Christ delivered it to the Apostles and the Church at Pentecost. If one is indwelt by the Holy Spirit they are essentially just in communion with God and sanctified, i.e. increasingly conformed to the image of Christ. This is best understood by the teaching of Theosis, the Spirit leads to deification of Christians by grace.

>>20670375
Become a Worm.
https://youtu.be/jiegso1JQWw

>>20672448
That’s too bad for them. The Bible is God-breathed. The prophetic dimensions of the book leading up to Christ have confirmed this beyond doubt, and increasingly it becomes hard to ignore that the things in Revelation are going to come true before long. The Bible is the word of God, written by many men over time inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is infallible in its theological, historical and moral teachings. The Bible teaches this, and experience and research confirms it.

>>20670375
>it is the most influential piece of literature known to man.

That is mostly owed to post 17th century European colonialism

>>20672466
>confirms itself
master level schizo

>>20672474
Problem?

>And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.

>>20672478
>nooo you have to water down what Christians have believed since the beginning for two millennia in order to cater to modernists
This is on the level of pretending to be a Christian while denying the Trinity or the deity of Christ

>>20672466
It's Jewish mythology and you're LARPing.
Normies' divorce from religion is causing so many problems in the West. The babble you're spewing right now is like normie repellant. Even normies can tell it's just a bunch of nonsense. Take the Jordan Peterson approach if you want to bring the lost sheep back to the flock.

>>20672490
You are the LARPer, if you had any respect for the truth of the Gospel you would not be wanting to water it down, and not just water down things that are peripheral, but the core of the religion, which rests on the God-breathed nature of Scripture. I imagine you are one of those types who LARPs as a Christian because you think it is ‘good for le west’

>>20672452
But didn't everybody have a spirit before Christ? Doesn't the Holy Spirit proceed from the Father?

>>20672515
‘A spirit’ is different from the Holy Spirit, though. Whether people have a ‘spirit’ that is different from their soul is unknown to me, but even if they do, it is not the Holy Spirit

>>20672503
In the very slim chance you're posting in good faith: your interpretation is not 'the truth of the gospel'. Many of the church fathers themselves took Genesis as allegory, and their interpretation is infinitely more valuable than yours, or any modern christnigger LARPing as a Christian. You're either a troll, or an 85 IQ flyover state redneck.

>>20672531
>Many of the church fathers themselves took Genesis as allegory
Origen is not a ‘church father’, he’s a condemned heretic, and while Augustine acknowledged that allegorical interpretations of the Garden can be fruitful, he is very explicit in the fact that we *must* hold the events to be explicitly historical as well. He says this right in City of God. Many of the Church Fathers believed in a literal six-day creation, including St. John Chrysostom, St. Ephraim the Syrian, St. Macarius the Great, etc. Many modern figures such as St. Paisios, St. Theophan the Recluse, Fr. Daniel Sysoev, Fr. Seraphim Rose, St. Seraphim of Sarov, St. John of Kronstadt, St. Barsanuphius of Optina, etc. are in the exact same vein as myself.

>but muh day-age
Literally doesn’t even matter how long it took God to make things, but we know that the creation was in the last 10,000 years. I follow a very old and venerable tradition, while you follow godless science and have been taken captive by vain philosophy. God told you how the world was created.

>>20672554
>fr seraphim rose
Lol


Origen is a well respected theologian and consisted a church father by many. There was also Augustine of Hippo, and several Jewish scholars who believed what Origen believed.

>but we know that the creation was in the last 10,000 years
The bible isn't a scientific document. Stop treating it like one. 85 IQ flyover state recheck confirmed. Enjoy your dwindling numbers and your church protected child molesters.

>>20671990
you can literally find contradictions within the first few pages
God creates "male and female" with his words in the first chapter, and explicitly talks to them and instructs them. In the second chapter he then creates "of the dust of the ground" instead of with his voice, and only makes man (despite already making "male and female"), only later making Eve out of Adams rib.
Clearly there's some weird joining of two different creation myths here that haven't been fully reconciled. Ignoring discrepancies like that and desperately trying to force it to make perfect sense is just insulting to the text and it's complicated history.

>>20672582
>Origen is a well respected theologian and consisted a church father by many
He’s not a saint, and not a church father.

>There was also Augustine of Hippo…who believed what Origen believed.
You blindly parrot what others have taught you, yet you do not actually read St. Augustine of Hippo.

>”These and similar allegorical interpretations may be suitably put upon Paradise without giving offence to any one, while yet we believe the strict truth of the history, confirmed by its circumstantial narrative of facts”

>As to those who are always asking why man was not created during these countless ages of the infinitely extended past, and came into being so lately that, according to Scripture, less than 6000 years have elapsed since he began to be…
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/45304/45304-h/45304-h.htm
This refutes your claims outright.

>The bible isn't a scientific document.
It teaches true history, i.e. that the world was created by an act of God less than 10,000 years ago, and that man was created from the earth, and Eve from his rib, and the two were expelled from the guardian for their disobedience. Scientific hubris blinds you from realizing that the non-uniformitarian conditions of the world pre-Fall put it beyond scientific inquiry in the first place.

>>20672609
>It teaches true history, i.e. that the world was created by an act of God less than 10,000 years ago, and that man was created from the earth, and Eve from his rib, and the two were expelled from the guardian for their disobedience. Scientific hubris blinds you from realizing that the non-uniformitarian conditions of the world pre-Fall put it beyond scientific inquiry in the first place.
Prove it.

>>20672601
Genesis 1 doesn’t say how God created them, you are reading into the text. This doesn’t contradict what is said in Genesis 2, i.e. that Adam was created from the dust of the earth. Genesis 2:4-6 covers in more detail the third day, and then the creation of man and woman in depth on day six. First we are given a picture of creation up to its pinnacle in man, and then it rewinds and covers what transpired in the Garden in a more narrative-driven way.

>>20672582
Liberal "Christians" actually take the word of Jewish so-called scholars over Christians like Fr. Seraphim Rose.

>>20672554
Shut up, retard. Paul himself understood Genesis to be an allegory (Galatians 4:24). Now cope and seethe.

>>20672643
Literally refuted by St. Augustine in the same passage. You have no nuance. It was historical and imparts to us spiritual teachings. Are you denying God can arrange events in such a way?

>>20670375
I wouldnt classify it as literature. More like a compendium.
Also, I dont think "best" is the best word to use in this instance.

Some people make this mistake where they think that if a passage has allegorical meaning, that means it didn't literally happen, when the the truth is both literal and allegorical.

>>20672653
>muh Augustine
I thought the Bible was "God-breathed"? Why are you contradicting the word of God, nigger? Who cares about what some fourth-century pedo wrote?

>>20672620
Just look into how the Neo-Darwinian synthesis is a fraud and how all of the OT prophecies about Christ came true, and how every society has a flood myth and a fall myth, and human civilization only came about in the last ten millennia (just as the Bible teaches) and you will realize that what is said there is very close to the truth. Everything scientists say is based on philosophical assumptions such as the past even going back billions of years in the first place, nothing but blind material forced being at work, and uniformitarian rates of change and static natural laws going back billions of years. None of these are substantiated by any evidence. Their entire paradigm is flawed.

>>20672674
Based and Dyerpilled!!

>>20672668
It was claimed the Church Fathers (Augustine being explicitly mentioned) believed in allegorical Garden of Eden. This was shown to be false. Besides, the God-breathed words of the Bible does not teach Sola Scriptura. St. Augustine is an important witness of the tradition and interpretations of the Apostles

>>20670375
Somebody please help me understand original sin. Is the natural human state really to be immortal? If so, then why after accepting Christ do people not become immortal again in the flesh? Why did the immortal qualities of man become converted into the immortal spirit? I'm not trying to be a heretic, I'm just wondering the theological explanation to this idea with a scriptural basis. Thanks in advance.

>>20672686
Get a load of this faggot.

>>20672010
It demonstrably isn't

>>20672686
The only thing he was an important witness of was the point of development after the passing of 300 years.

>>20672702
Human beings were immortal by the grace of God upon creation. When God gave them the command not to eat from the tree, he warned them they would die. There is a twofold death implied here, because when Adam and Eve disobeyed God and ate from the tree, physical death was not immediately incurred. What did occur immediately was spiritual death. Christ made use of death in order to destroy death. He became man, and assumed human nature into his divine nature, becoming poor that so through his poverty we might become rich (2 Corinthians 8:9) and so that we might be adopted as co-heirs with Christ and as sons of God (Romans 8:17). Before Christ, death was often described in the OT as a dark, dreary and hopeless realm. Now it is the opposite for the righteous. Christ holds the keys of death (Revelation 1:18), and has smashed the dominion of Hades over mankind, binding Satan (Revelation 20:1-2). Death will be the last enemy to be destroyed in the end (1 Corinthians 15:24–26), and our fallen bodies will be reassembled, body and soul, and then death will no longer reign over us, physical or spiritual. Right now, spiritual death has been vanquished, and physical death has been re-purposed by Christ, as the ante-chamber to eternity, no longer are the dead separated from God, and Christ even preached to them when he descended and destroyed Satan’s kingdom.

>>20672674
This is the worst LARP in all of internet history. Everything you just said is demonstrably false. Christians don't need any help looking stupid, so why don't you find another group to mock?

>>20672728
If you want early sources I would just point at St. Irenaeus of Lyons, who was taught by St. Polycarp of Smyrna, who was directly taught by St. John the Apostle. He definitely didn’t believe in an allegorical interpretation of Genesis. Same with St. Theophilus of Antioch. The only weird thing about their interpretations of the Garden is that they held Adam and Eve to be created as children

>>20672748
Why are you so ashamed of what God’s word teaches?

>>20672530
What is the Holy Spirit tapping into, then? How is the law of God written in every man's hearts? How does one get to "know" the Holy Spirit?

>>20672758
The Holy Spirit can be known through prayer, and taps into man’s soul / heart. God in my experience will not answer to one like he is some sort of genie or servant who answers at one’s beck and call, but if one is praying in spirit and in truth, and is sincerely wanting to know God, and to follow his will, then God will make himself known at some point in prayer when a person is ready for it. That was my experience, but I did not experience anything until I had been praying consistently for months, not even sure I was doing anything for real.

A regular habit of prayer is the best advice one can give.

>How is the law of God written in every man's hearts?
In man’s conscience. Many things that people do they feel are wrong, and this is their God-implanted conscience accusing them. They should listen to their conscience. This can be obscured and clouded by sin though, just like cataracts over someone’s eyes. I think if one were to be really purified from sin through sanctification and repentance, their conscience would become far more evident to them. I’m no saint, but I have realized this to an extent myself.

>>20672405
He is saying pay your taxes.

>>20672417
It means exactly what it means. The Holy Spirit is within you, if indeed you believe in the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was not immanent in the world before Christ’s first coming. Christ said to His disciples he was sending a Comforter for them after He had ascended. This is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit’s indwelling means God’s life is deposited into your human spirit for the sanctification of your entire being.

he's just like me fr fr

>>20672515
Yes, every single man has a spirit, but in this time it is dead, and man lives by his soul. The Holy Spirit does proceed from the father, and in fact, man has a spirit because God breathed the breath of life into man, which became the spirit of man (Gen. 7, where the Hebrew neshamah is translated breath but elsewhere translated spirit). But, through the fall, his spirit was deadened. Man could no longer express or represent God. For the fulfilment of His original purpose with man, God sent us His Son, Jesus Christ, who took the likeness of flesh in order to condemn once and for all sin, which requires death. As He believed the Father would resurrect Him, so He was resurrected, and we can share in His resurrection and receive the spirit of life, grace, and all the divine elements of God again, because our spirit was resurrected when we believed into God’s Son.

>>20672643
Their allegory does not exclude their history.

>>20672756
I'm ashamed of the bile that comes from the mouths of people like you. It's not a proper religion because it's adherents aren't wise. It's like a cult that got too popular.

I actually started reading the KJV yesterday. It's turgid and dull. God lobotomised you at birth if you really think it's 'the best literature ever made'.

>>20673824
“For the wisdom of this world is folly with God”

>>20673910
"Being smart is bad"
Lol, lmao. Very telling.

>>20673824
>leaning unto thine own understanding
imagine it
>>20673838
>filtered
CAPTCH 4KJ

I've been going to this church nearby for the past weeks but never talked to anyone. I wanted to email, but they don't provide an email address. Do I just call the priest during work hours if I'd like to meet to ask for some advice? I feel bad taking up the time of a priest, and I don't even know if they help randoms. Do I pay?

>>20673988
Why would you want advice from a priest?

>>20673988
Yes, just call, or next Sunday let him know you'd like to set up a time to sit and speak.

>>20673988
Also no, you should not "pay", just perhaps drop what you can into the offering at services.

>>20674086
>>20674089
Ok I'll call him then. Do I call him "father" when speaking to him? Or "reverend" or something? I've been paying a bit every Sunday into the offering.

>>20674098
Jesus said not to call religious figures by the title of "Father", so there's that.

>>20674101
For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. (1Co 4:15)

>>20674175
Not a title under office.

>>20674175
>permission to disregard what Jesus clearly directly said

>>20674175
>>20674101
It doesn't say that. It says he's not my father (obvioulsy), not that I can't him father. I call my biological father too, but he's not my father the way Christ is my father. Posting verses like this is useless. I was asking what's the approriate thing to do according to tradition and mores.

>>20672199

>>20674077
He wants to get molested. It's his kink

>>20674319
If you're Catholic or Orthodox then address him as "Father <name>." You can talk to him before or after Mass/Liturgy/worship and ask to set up a meeting or when confession hours are.

>>20672717
you have no understanding of how mythology propagates.

>>20674198
‘Father’ isn’t a title. Do you not call people ‘teacher’ either? Paul was a spiritual father, cope

>>20673824
>got too popular
That was (is) evidently its purpose. The whole idea of "we'll help you convert for your own good" is baseline tyrannical, a wolf in sheep's clothing.

>>20674596
Parts of it are older than the Torah like the Book of Job but the Torah itself was written in Hebrew at the same time as it was written in Greek by the same Jews.

I am going to read the Gospels out of personal interest. What else should I read of the Bible so I can have pleasant discussion with my Christian family?

>>20674599
>Do you not call people ‘teacher’ either?
Not as a titled name, no.

>>20672010
Abrahamists all need to be crowded into the middle east and then glassed. If globohomo was going to do this I’d support it.

>>20674677
Ecclesiastes, Psalms, Job, maybe the Epistle to the Romans. Revelation for schizo hours

>>20672702
I think of original sin as fundamental problems of being a person. “You will have to toil in the fields” means you have to work to eat, which sucks. “You will experience pain during child birth” means that it hurts to give birth, which sucks. I don’t think God cursed us with these things forever because two people made a mistake, seems weird. I think it’s more of an allegory for, again, fundamental problems. There’s no washing away of original sin, but they’re is transcendence. You can live by the inspired words of Christ and God, and by their words you can cease to care about consequences. The story of original sin is more of an explanation to people as to why we have to deal with all this dumb being a human shit like eating and fixing wheels on our broke wagons and getting sick and dying of fevers. The Bible’s writers just kinda said “it’s fundamental.”

My point being, don’t believe that you are naturally born as a filthy, sinful thing that has to be fixed by an organized religion. That’s just a scare to make people donate more on Sunday.

t. I think Carl Jung is the best Christian so far

Why does he make these faces?

Isaiah 2:8
>Their land is full of idols; they bow down to the work of their hands, to what their fingers have made.
Is he talking about bugmen and their idolatry of science?

>that LARPer who thinks he "read" the Bible in a modern translation
Ὦ οὐκ οὐκ οὐκ... ΧΑΧΑΧΑΧΑΧΑΧΑ

>>20676408
There are no bigger LARPers than the ones who always talk about translations and editions. They're almost never Christians.

Why is God so concerned with you believing in him?

It's just a question I have. If god does exist, the Christian god, and let's say that he does for the sake of argument - why is your belief in him so immensely important to him?

I could understand punishing bad people. In this instance though, let's say a guy is a good person, and lives in the lines of what modern Christians tout as being moral and right, with just one exception. He doesn't believe.

How does his lack of belief justify an unending torture ? It seems almost petty for such a powerful & intelligent entity to be so worried about whether people think he is real or not, especially when all he has left us to believe him for the most part is an old book.

Any thoughts ?

>>20676397
Maybe not explicitly in context, but science is certainly a modern idol and false god

>>20676508
>your human logic does not apply to the Lord!

>>20676508
Depends what you mean by ‘believe’. Is God concerned with acknowledging the factual statement that he is real and that is all that he desires? No, as James writes, “You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!” (James 2:19). God created you in a completely free act out of an abundance of his love and goodness. The love of God and his jealousy for his creation is a key theme in the Bible. When mankind falls away from him, he does not cast them away forever, but seeks to bring his people back into the fold, and to forgive them, and bring them back even closer than before, but he does not coerce us. Both of these themes are demonstrated in the Parable of the Lost Sheep and the Parable of the Prodigal Son, but it is really the entire theme of the Bible, demonstrated in the history of the Israelites on a micro-scale.

God pours out his love and his goodwill upon his creation impartially, like the light of the sun, which shines on the good and the evil, as well as the rain, which falls on both alike (Matthew 5:45). What God wants from you is your love and devotion first and foremost. This is why the two greatest commandments concern loving God with all of one’s being, and loving one’s neighbor, created in the image of God, as oneself. God wants people to love him, and to be like him, telling us to be holy as he is holy (1 Peter 1:16, Leviticus 20:7). This culminates in the prayer of John 17—Christ, the incarnate God who came to bring back what was lost, i.e. mankind, prays “so that they may be one as We are one—I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me” (John 17:22-23), “And I have made Your name known to them and will continue to make it known, so that the love You have for Me may be in them, and I in them.” (John 17:26). When we get into the aspects of mystical marriage present throughout the Bible, and how Christ uses wedding parables and describes himself as the ‘Bridegroom’ in the NT, the spiritual union of love that God invites us to is made even more manifest. It is not a union of annihilation of self, but participation and harmony, partaking in the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4)

> How does his lack of belief justify an unending torture ?
Will God torture you, or you yourself through your own disconnection from the source of all love, beauty, truth and life?

I will attach a quote to this.

>>20676508
>>20676675
St. Isaac the Syrian:
> As for me I say that those who are tormented in hell are tormented by the invasion of love. What is there more bitter and violent than the pains of love? Those who feel they have sinned against love bear in themselves a damnation much heavier than the most dreaded punishments. The suffering with which sinning against love afflicts the heart is more keenly felt than any other torment. It is absurd to assume that the sinners in hell are deprived of God’s love. Love is offered impartially. But by its very power it acts in two ways. It torments sinners, as happens here on earth when we are tormented by the presence of a friend to whom we have been unfaithful. And it gives joy to those who have been faithful.

>That is what the torment of hell is in my opinion: remorse. But love inebriates the souls of the sons and daughters of heaven by its delectability.

https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/2012/02/06/the-audacity-of-mercy-st-isaac-the-syrian/

>>20676675
>Depends what you mean by ‘believe’. Is God concerned with acknowledging the factual statement that he is real and that is all that he desires? No, as James writes, “You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!” (James 2:19
Man just answer the guy's question. He didn't say belief is all you need (sufficient) he asked why belief is *necessary*.

>>20676684
Belief is necessary because it is far, far more than just acknowledging that God exists, even demons can do that. Many mistakenly think that God just wants you to acknowledge him and do nothing else, that is a false belief condemned by James. The idea that lack of ‘belief’ in God is why people will be condemned is a pernicious one.

>>20676508
Why settle for less than perfect?

>>20676699
>Belief is necessary because it is far, far more than just acknowledging that God exists
no shit we all get that, that's the whole problem
>The idea that lack of ‘belief’ in God is why people will be condemned is a pernicious one.
oh yeah? why is that? it's not just an idea its also what's being said in the bible. its why missionaries went all over the planet to convert people. you may not like the question but it still has merit. you still haven't stated why it is necessary to accustom your life to the ways of God as prescribed in the bible, even if you are lacking in sin. all you're doing is making it sound like God has a specific use for us and that is the only explanation as to why we must worship. God can fuck off

>>20676713
The question is not what's the optimal decision but why does lack of belief condemns one to hell

>>20676726
>all you're doing is making it sound like God has a specific use for us and that is the only explanation as to why we must worship.
God creates you and offers you to exist in a way like he does, and you are free to accept that or reject that, and rejection of that involves alienation from the source of all life, love, truth and beauty. You can tell God to ‘fuck off’ if you wish, he will respect your choice.

>>20670392
Christian: will not kill innocents
Muslim: will kill innocents

>>20676508
Firstly, Christ judges you by your heart, not your actions. You can't respect Christian morality without being Christian because a central part of it is faith in Christ. So you mean you're superficially emulating what Christians do and you ask why that's not enough. Because it's about your soul, not your outward actions.

Secondly, you ask why is faith an important moral imperative. It is so because if you don't have faith there is something in your soul that is not right. Why don't you believe? Do you think the earth created itself, that there's no creator? Do you think everyone in the Bible lied, all apostles lied, all church fathers were wrong, and you, a 20 something man who barely read a fraction of what you need to even begin comprehending the universe, born in a secular mainstream society where intellectualism is dead--you are convinced you are right and everyone else must've been wrong. That's hubris and it shows that there's something wrong with your soul, which is why is condemnable.

what are the most interesting things in septuagint books like Tobit and Judith and wherever else is not in the Hebrew Bible

>>20670375
the bible was not written by jews

>>20677411
Wisdom of Solomon 2 has a prophecy of Jesus, where a righteous man who calls himself God’s son / child, and God as his Father is mocked and killed. Baruch 3 says that God will come down and live on Earth (or God’s hypostatic Wisdom depending on how the translation is done, but both are obviously Christ). Sirach 51 mentions the Lord and his Father—“I called upon the Lord, the Father of my Lord, that he would not leave me in the days of my trouble” The Greek is ‘Κύριον πατέρα κυρίου μου’.

It saddens me so many denies these are inspired Scriptures.

Does Romans 9 affirm double predestination? It is not the comfiest realization, but the truth is the truth if it is true

>>20678133
no

Bros I'm having troubles remembering the differences betwee Mark, Matthew, and Luke. If you show me a verse from one of these 3, I can't tell where it is from. I always forget what makes each unique.

>>20678133
yes

>>20678133
maybe

bump

>>20670375
Reading the Bible is pretty cool. I read it all the time myself. But having it performed to you its much better.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rVFQfPTJPq8
The text and faith is liturgical afterall.

>>20681213
Very cringe my dude.

Have a blessed Friday anons

>>20681936
You as well

I wish most Christians were a little bit smarter. There is so much about the religion that's positive, but the average Christian is like a kid in a tractor on a construction site, not understanding the controls, knocking things over, aimlessly treading back and forth with tears in his eyes while being yelled at by the horrified nearby adults. If you're a devout Christian and you want to help spread your faith, come to grips with formal logic so you can properly argue your case, and don't be afraid to admit that faith is irrational. When intelligent, educated people hear you try to say evolution can't create divergent species, or any of the other demonstrably false BS you use to justify your beliefs, they tend to feel nothing but disgust and aversion.

>>20670392
yes I have read the book of mormon

>>20682547
How do atheists write these self-indulgent posts with no shame at all?

>>20682941
It's true, though, based on my experience dealing with Christians

>watching a video of some preacher with my dad
>he spends about one minute actually talking about God and the Bible, and the rest of it is literally just propaganda for Israel (as in the modern state of Israel) and how they're so great and how he just loves Jewish people
It was unbelievable.
It was like the strawman argument that pagan larpers make about how Christians are just cucks who love Israel, except in this case it was actually real. And he was really fat too.
Sad and embarrassing.

>>20682547
>don't be afraid to admit that faith is irrational.
You are wrong. The rational intellect itself presupposes faith.
Also evolution is Masonic propaganda.

>>20683530
0/10 LARP

>>20683551
https://youtu.be/x6wUqoJXKHs

>>20683562
Fail troll

>>20683519
Have you considered that it isn't a strawman?

>>20683585
Well sometimes it is real like that preacher I just saw, but not everyone who is a Christian is like that.

>>20683574
You got BTFO in the span of 2 posts lol

What do you all think about conspiracy theorist Adam Green? I think he makes cogent points unfortunately.

>>20683813
What points would those be?

>>20683813
Christianity being a Jewish plot is a stupid conspiracy theory, name three things that Adam Green has said that you think are ‘cogent’ and I will adress them

>>20683835
This is correct.
However there are Jewish plots to subvert Christianity such as "progressive Christianity", Zionism, and so on.

>>20683839
Protestants would do that by themselves anyway

>>20683839
Yeah, I agree with you. Evangelicals being astroturfed into funneling money into Israel and waging wars for them in the Middle East is absolutely a product of Jewish interests trying to neuter and destroy Christianity. This should be no surprise, because traditionally Christians have known that the Antichrist will be a Jew who will set himself up in Jerusalem and declare himself to be ‘God’. The Vatican has been infilitrated too since Vatican II, when they proclaimed that Christians must get along with Jews and that they worship the same God, removing prayers for their conversion from Mass.

>>20683825
>>20683835
Look the guy just makes sense I can't really argue with it. Pull up any argument by Green and it is not something you can easily refute. Although he was actually outargued by Christian debator Thamster, this has put me back into hard agnosticism rather than Jewish conspiracy.

>>20683905
You’re not giving any examples of these so-called ‘cogent’ arguments. I’ve dabbled in this nonsense before, and it’s all bullshit. What are you agnostic about in particular?

>>20683923
Well, the existence of Jesus has always puzzled me.

>>20683923
I am not sure if we can trust even the extrabiblical sources on his existence.

>>20683941
Like his historicity? There’s not much reason to not at minimum believe that a man in 1st century Judea named Jesus went around, preached, and was crucified before passover, and was believed by his disciples, and by some who were hostile to said disciples (Paul) to have risen from the dead. The Gospels in the Bible are each independent sources, as are Paul’s writings, and other books of the NT, and there are even early figures in the church who are connected directly with the apostles, such as Ignatius of Antioch, Irenaeus of Lyon, Polycarp of Smyrna, etc. This is barely removed from Jesus. When we have other things such as Mara ben Serapion’s mention of Jesus off-hand, and the early 2nd century Roman sources and Josephus from the 1st century, who *at minimum* has one authentic and non-interpolated reference to Jesus and his brother James, then there is very little reason to not believe in his existence, even if he was not God incarnate. There are more sources for this guy than some Roman and Greek sources, and the surviving fragments of the Bible date closer to Jesus’ actual life than our early manuscripts of Plato which are from the 9th century AD

>>20683984
But how can we be sure this is the whole Jesus from the Bible and not some composite character that was invented for reasons...?

>>20684007
why would it be? all who preached of Him were persecuted, and had no material "gain" from it.
as i once heard asked, 'who would die for a lie?'

>>20684007
Are you just being a skeptic or do you have substantive reasons for positing that Jesus may be a composite figure? I see almost zero compelling reason to believe that Jesus is somehow just cobbled together and yet we have figures in the early church that knew Jesus’ disciples personally, and independent Gospel sources which contain substantially the same events, and non-Christian Jewish sources from the period, and later Talmudic accounts which portray Jesus as someone who learned magic in Egypt and went around declaring himself as a god.

It makes zero sense for a bunch of Jews to magically believe in a hodgepodge fictional character and to then go around literally dying for this belief, convincing even enemies of this movement, recording it in multiple sources, etc.

Bump

What are you reading today?