/lit/ - Literature

>>20655749
Guenon and Shankara are the biggest pseudointellectual rhetoricians though.

>>20655749
guenon is a pseudo-intellectual rhetorician

>>20655749
Also can't forget Garab Dorje, Śrī Siṃha, Mañjuśrīmitra, Padmasambhava, Milarepa, Tilopa and Naropa.

Abhinavagupta and Ibn Arabi refute Shankara and Guenon.

>>20655749
PBUH Inshallah.

>>20655749
You like mysticism, because you dont have the mind for hard science and philosophy.

>>20655803
Already aced those in university and realized there was nothing valuable there.

>>20655803
A shame the list mixes pseuds with geniuses. OP can't separate the wheat from the chaff.

>>20655782
Oh really?
Abhinavagupta:

>Tradition teaches us that ignorance is the sole cause of bondage: it is taught under the name “impurity” in scripture. When the power of all-encompassing insight arises, it is completely uprooted. With the arising of the full consciousness of the Self, by which all impurity is destroyed, there is liberation.
(Essence of the Tantras)

>This Self is an embodiment of the Light of Consciousness; it is Śiva, free and autonomous. As an independent play of intense joy, the Divine conceals its own true nature [by manifesting plurality], and may also choose to reveal its fullness once again at any time.
(Essence of the Tantras)

>In actuality it is only the unbounded Light of Consciousness, reposing in innate bliss, endowed with the Powers of Will, Knowledge, and Action, that we call God.
(Essence of the Tantras)

>This whole universe is One Reality—unbroken by time, uncircumscribed by space, unclouded by attributes, unconfined by forms, inexpressible by words, and impossible to understand with the ordinary means of knowledge. (Essence of the Tantras)

>In our tradition that holds to the View of the nonduality of the autonomous Highest Divinity, it occurs in this way: the Highest Divinity, as a play of hiding His true nature, becomes a bound soul, an individual, a contracted being, and yet there is no contradiction of His true nature in manifesting within the circumscribed divisions of space, time, and a particular form. As another complementary expression of the same play, when bringing to an end the concealment of his true nature, and experiencing a return to that true nature instantly or gradually, He is called an individual soul that is a fit vessel for śaktipāta. And He is Supreme Śiva throughout this whole process, whose essence is simply His total autonomy: the one who causes Power to descend. (Tantrasāra: ch. 11)

>Those embodied souls on whom Śakti descends, for the cessation of their bondage, show these signs: eagerness for liberation; aversion to remaining in the mundane world of delusion and suffering [saṃsāra]; devotion toward the devotees of God; faith in their teacher and rites. (Mṛgendra-tantra)

>The Descent of Power erodes the impurity (of one’s separate individuality), which is the cause of the cycle of suffering. When that has waned, the desire to go to the highest, unsurpassed beatitude arises. Having obtained a guide [= guru], who cuts his bonds by initiation, he attains identity with God, free from impurity and affliction. (Svayambhuva-sūtra- sangraha)

>>20655881
A bound soul has convictions such as “I am only inert matter; I am completely bound by my karma; I am impure; I am a victim.” When he succeeds in attaining the firmly rooted conviction of the opposite of these views, he immediately becomes the Lord whose body is the whole universe and whose soul is Consciousness. ||

In whatever manner such a conviction may be attained, a superior yogī must cultivate it at all times. He should not be led into doubt by the mass of foolish teachings in the world; i.e., by any viewpoint not grounded in the real nature of things. || (Tantrasāra: ch. 4)

PŪJĀ: Worship is the offering of all existent things and states of being [bhāvas] into the Highest Divinity, in order to attain the firm understanding that they all subsist within the Highest Divinity alone, and there is nothing other than That.

Because they are pleasing to the Heart, we begin by offering those things that tend to spontaneously dissolve into blissful awareness and are thus easefully offered to God. For this reason, we are taught [in scripture] to use in external practice those things that delight the aesthetic senses, such as flowers, libations of fragrant wine, and scented unguents.159 (Tantrasāra: ch. 4)

>Abhinava Gupta, Essence of the Tantras chapter four: “The whole of reality is encompassed by three basic Powers. She by whom the Highest Divinity supports, perceives, and manifests all this—from Śiva down to Earth—as pure undifferentiated Consciousness, is his sacred Transcendent Power, the Supreme Goddess [Śrī Parā-śakti]. She by whom [he supports, perceives, and manifests all] as diversity within unity is his sacred Intermediate Power [Śrī Parāparā-śakti]. She by whom [he supports, perceives, and manifests all] as entirely differentiated, characterized by [apparent] mutual separation, is his sacred Lower Power [Śrī Aparā-śakti]. She by whom he devours this three-fold process, embracing it to himself alone as unitary awareness, is simply his Blessed Goddess Śrī Parā [in her higher all-encompassing form], denoted by other names [in the scriptures], such as Mātṛsadbhāva ‘Mother Existence/The Essence of Knowers], Kālakarṣiṇī [The Projector and Withdrawer of Time] or Vāmeśvarī [The Goddess who Emits Reality].”

>Experientially realizing the primacy of the Conscious Self as the true Knower and Agent, and realizing that the other layers of individuality—from the Void to the body—are mere attributes of it, is what characterizes samāveśa.35 (Stanzas on the Recognition of the Divine)

>>20655749
Those aren't real words

>>20655892
>The One described as “beyond conception” is Śiva, the supreme cause, yet without name and unchanging, all-pervasive and quiescent. He is without an inherent nature [for he becomes everything], O great Goddess; He is devoid of action and cause, undifferentiated, un-graspable through mental constructs, formless, free from the three Guṇas, beyond notions of “I” and “mine,” and situated in the state of non-duality. Yogīs [alone] may approach Him through meditation, for his nature is wisdom. Abiding in the state beyond normative action, that Highest Lord is nothing but Consciousness. He, the bestower of grace for all, has the form of unparalleled Light, and is pervasive, unmanifest, beyond mind, and great.

>His Śakti arises by Her own nature, not produced [from him]. Her nature is like that of the refreshing and delightful moonlight, with crystalline rays. She is his Will Power, emerging in the form of pure insight yet transcending the mind, and without semblance: she is called Avadhūtā (she who has cast off all form and limitation). She, the Infinite One, awakens the supreme Point [bindu] and the supreme Sound [nāda] instantaneously. Shaped like a coil, she exists in the sounds of the syllabary, beginning with the vowels . . . . Thus, the Kuṇḍalinī Śakti exists [as a cakra] with the sixteen vowels. (Brahmayāmala 1.122–26)

>All those who have been initiated by this ritual are of equal nature, whether they be brāhmins . . . or outcastes. They have been brought into a state of fusion with the nature of Śiva. [In assembly] they may not sit according to the divisions of their former castes; [for] they are said to form but a single caste of Bhairava, auspicious and eternal. Once a person has taken up this Tantrik system, he may never mention his former caste. . . . O Empress of the Gods, it is through [this] freedom from discrimination that one will certainly attain both siddhi and liberation. (Svacchanda-tantra)

>I venerate the supreme Śiva located in the self, who can be known only in self-experience, who is devoid of the mental torment of fixation on any specific doctrine. I bow to the Benevolent One, the destroyer of the flood of conceptual constructs, free of the snare of the mind’s imaginings, transcending [even] the level of the highest bliss. || 2–3 ||

>The method of attaining the goal is to be constantly awake to one’s own awareness. By this means the sage achieves the state free of differentiation. There is no method other than staying with [awareness of] one’s own being. Closely maintaining awareness of this alone, the yogī will become joyful, resting in the self.100 || 9–10 || (Svabodha-siddhi)

>Prabodha wrote:
>By mere remembrance of You, we make into a humble servant this demon called “I”, that thirsts for the blood that is the fortitude of men, ripping them apart with its treacherous fangs called “mine.”

>>20655903
>The revered Goddess said: “If, O Lord, this is the true form of Parā [the Supreme Goddess], how can there be mantra or its repetition in the [nondual] state you have taught? What would be visualized, what worshipped and gratified? And who is there to receive offerings?” The revered Bhairava said: “In this [higher way], O doe-eyed one, external procedures are considered coarse [sthūla]. Here ‘japa’ is the ever-greater meditative absorption [bhāvanā] into the supreme state; and the ‘mantra’ to be repeated is the spontaneously arising resonance [of inner experience] which aligns with that. As for ‘meditative visualization,’ [dhyāna] it is a mindthat has become motionless, free of forms, and supportless, not imagining a deity with a body, eyes, face, and so on. Pūjā is likewise not the offering of flowers and so on. A mind made firm, which through careful attention dissolves into the thought-free ultimate Void [of pure Awareness]: that is pūjā.161 (Vijñāna-bhairava-tantra)

>Having reposed in these levels of uccāra, practicing them one by one, in sets of two, or all together, one reaches that Supreme Reality of grounded and centered awareness, beyond the body, prāṇa, mind, and void. (Tantrasāra: ch. 5)

>>20655782
The final state of tantra is not egoity and reason, or "empirical ego" and so forth, if you think this is why you think they re all different then you have never read any of these authors, are interpolating with your own western occultist biases, there is fundamentally no difference between Advaita and Kashmir Shaivism, tantra is just another means, now when it comes to ibn arabi I don't know about that as I am unfamiliar with his system, but in terms of total oneness and so forth Advaita and Kashmir Shaivism Ultimately Agree.

>>20655822
All these authors and writings are classified as "indirect knowledge" regardless, you should elaborate in who exactly is a pseud and who is not, and I may or may not agree, for the reference of others in the thread we should discuss this,

>>20655803
>academia science and pseudo-philosophy
Discussion, discord and division, is the trick of the devil and is born of the ignorance which mistakes Being for Nonbeing, thereby doing away with reality and installing in its place unreality, the work of academics and scientists is merely the outcome of their own limited horizons, resulting from either miseducation or an innate incapacity, there is no more value in science and modern philosophy then there is in a craft, there is no more value in either of these forms then there is in the Self which admits All, the principle of principles, unlimited infinite bliss knowledge, which can be delimited individually, I am content in my career, and I did go to university, I earn more money then the average academic, I was fully capable of entering academia, but it is quite a sterile environment, it's all about originality and innovation, oh He discovered this, She discovered that, those places are simply confusing, not necesserily because it's hard, but rather unnecessarily complex, rote, you spend your entire life no matter the field, be it even the more theoretical sciences like pure maths, and theoretical physics, learning about and applying abstract objects, it's merely all an exercise of will and discursion, of arguably the grosser intellect, its all about building up your CV your profile, your identity, its a breeding ground for egoism, and for what? Merely profane knowledge, not self-knowledge, I will continue my non-pseud career, and continue inquiring into the self, which is the only bliss, and not deluding myself looking outwards into the void of discursive relativity.

>>20655959
Imagine this, someone states you dont have the stomach for hard science and philisophy, to prove him right you write an entire butthurt chapter about academia.

Topkek.

>>20656027
yeah he is right, i do not have the mind for acedemia, i have the mind for the mind, which is really the root of all, divested of individual proofs it proves itself.

>>20655749
You've listed literally nothing but pseudointellectual rhetoriticians

Ahhhh… I’m… I’m gonna ahhhhhh I’m gonna coomaraswamy

More like redditorician

>>20655915
>there is fundamentally no difference between Advaita and Kashmir Shaivism

Incredibly wrong take.

>>20656626
I mean in terms of where they go
Read these quotes from Abhinavagupta himself
From the quotes we see the same themes,
Ignorance, Oneness, Unicity, both talk about the bound soul aswell as the free, and both divest talk about transcending individuality or ego.
>Experientially realizing the primacy of the Conscious Self as the true Knower and Agent, and realizing that the other layers of individuality—from the Void to the body—are mere attributes of it, is what characterizes samāveśa. (Stanzas on the Recognition of the Divine)
Realization of the self which is through the negation of the koshas, resting in blissful awareness, and so forth beyond "I" etc.
Shiva is beyond conception, unmanifest and so forth,
>Supreme Reality of grounded and centered awareness, beyond the body, prāṇa, mind, and void.
>I venerate the supreme Śiva located in the self, who can be known only in self-experience, who is devoid of the mental torment of fixation on any specific doctrine. I bow to the Benevolent One, the destroyer of the flood of conceptual constructs, free of the snare of the mind’s imaginings, transcending [even] the level of the highest bliss. || 2–3 ||

>O great Goddess; He is devoid of action and cause, undifferentiated, un-graspable through mental constructs, formless, free from the three Guṇas, beyond notions of “I” and “mine,” and situated in the state of non-duality. Yogīs [alone] may approach Him through meditation, for his nature is wisdom. Abiding in the state beyond normative action, that Highest Lord is nothing but Consciousness. He, the bestower of grace for all, has the form of unparalleled Light, and is pervasive, unmanifest, beyond mind, and great.

>In our tradition that holds to the View of the nonduality of the autonomous Highest Divinity, it occurs in this way: the Highest Divinity, as a play of hiding His true nature, becomes a bound soul, an individual, a contracted being, and yet there is no contradiction of His true nature in manifesting within the circumscribed divisions of space, time, and a particular form. As another complementary expression of the same play, when bringing to an end the concealment of his true nature, and experiencing a return to that true nature instantly or gradually, He is called an individual soul that is a fit vessel for śaktipāta. And He is Supreme Śiva throughout this whole process, whose essence is simply His total autonomy: the one who causes Power to descend. (Tantrasāra: ch. 11)

>In actuality it is only the unbounded Light of Consciousness, reposing in innate bliss, endowed with the Powers of Will, Knowledge, and Action, that we call God.
(Essence of the Tantras)

Why not?
>I venerate the supreme Śiva located in the self, who can be known only in self-experience, who is devoid of the mental torment of fixation on any specific doctrine

>>20656626
>Tradition teaches us that ignorance is the sole cause of bondage: it is taught under the name “impurity” in scripture. When the power of all-encompassing insight arises, it is completely uprooted. With the arising of the full consciousness of the Self, by which all impurity is destroyed, there is liberation.
(Essence of the Tantras, Abhinavagupta)

how about you try reading the bible and save yourself a few years of wasted time, faggot

>>20655749
Yes read them all and still be here with us without having transcended reality and speak in righteous tones about your hobby.

>>20655749
On it

>>20656675
Fundamentally dishonest posting if you think Abhinavagupta didn't criticize Vedanta. Why is guenonfag so dishonest?

>>20655803
The hard science that's disintegrating in the replication crisis?

>>20657386
>Why is guenonfag so dishonest?
Guenonfag here, that poster is not me, I see that Im living rent free though

>>20657402
guenonfag is too dishonest to admit he's samefagging his threads

>>20657404
oh no no no no

>>20657424
you're just too dishonest

>>20657432
It's not guenonfag samefagging, I posted the stuff above with quotes and so forth from Abhinavagupta, also all initiates speak the same language.
Initiation and Spiritual Realization (ch. XXII):
>"This being will then be able to pass in appearance through the same degrees as the initiate who has simply started from the state of the ordinary man, but the reality will nevertheless be quite different; Indeed, not only will the initiation, instead of being at first only virtual as it usually is, be for him immediately effective, but he will also "recognize" these degrees, if one can express oneself thus, as having them already in him, in a way which can be compared to the Platonic "reminiscence", and which is even undoubtedly at the bottom one of the meanings of this one. This case is also comparable to what would be, in the order of theoretical knowledge, that of someone who already possesses internally the consciousness of certain doctrinal truths, but who is incapable of expressing them because he does not have at his disposal the appropriate terms, and who, as soon as he hears them enunciated, recognizes them at once and completely penetrates their meaning without having any work to do to assimilate them. It may even happen that, when he finds himself in the presence of the initiatory rites and symbols, they appear to him as if he had always known them, in a sort of "timeless" way, because he has effectively within him all that which, beyond and independently of the particular forms, constitutes their very essence; and, in fact, this knowledge really has no temporal beginning, since it results from an acquisition realized outside the course of the human state, which alone is truly conditioned by time."

>>20657424
Kek you have quite the reputation guenonfag, what do you think of Böhme also? You should give his "supersensual life" if you haven't

>>20657386
>Abhinavagupta didn't criticize Vedanta
care to elaborate on that? i'm actually curious about the differences

>>20657396
>the replication crisis
that's only a thing in the soft sciences, the replication crisis is 80% psychological papers

>You like mysticism, because you dont have the mind for hard science and philosophy

>>20658007
He's right

>>20658012
I cannot take any retard who puts a comma before because seriously.

>>20657432
Wow he seems based. Does anyone have his discord ?

>>20657997
There's a lot of medical shit too apparently

>>20658441
Guenonfag needs to grace his presence in the /trad/ discord server

>>20656157
Guenonfag for once said something based.

>>20658463
Is Frater in the server? He isn't explicitly /Trad/ as far as I know but he knows more about the authors listed in the OP than all of us on this board combined.

>>20658528
He’s in one of them

The Romanianfag will add you (I’m too much of a 30 yo boomer to work discord)
JuIian#2309

>>20658528
He immediately sniffed me out when I started talking about the counter-imitation lol

>>20658559
Initiation*

>>20658551
Actually I can add you
DagoItaka#9953

>>20658551
>>20658575
Oh I'm not Guenonfag, I was just curious. (sorry for the confusion). Although if I can join, I would gladly take you up on the invite. I'm a Twelve-Imami Shia interested in esotericism. Currently reading through the works of Nasr, after that planning on reading Guénon and Schuon.

>>20658620
It’s cool, hit me up
Plenty of muzzies in one of them

>>20658624
Sent you a friend req.

SOMEBODY GIMME DA GIGA GUENON NOW! I NEED IT!

>>20658007

that look of pure analyzing, coupled with a slight sardonic smile that makes people uneasy.

Ramanujan literally gets God to do his math homework for him

Why do books like the Quran Bible and the Hadith’s say that their religion is the one true religion and promote exclusivism. I like perennialism but I’m not sure how to view Quran verses and the like that contradict perennialism, I feel that if I disagree with them I’m de facto not a Muslim as the Quran is infallible

>>20660025
I get the feeling that Guenon wanted to worship Indra as the absolute whole all of mind but that he settled for the intellectual property Allah because Islam is the only Operating System with balls.exe

>>20656209
My brother in Christ,
You could have just named youself Kumar Aswamy
But you dun did
Coomer Asswhammy

>>20660025
The Quran doesn't say it's the *only true* religion, but it says it is the *most true* religion. It says God sent Prophets to every nation, but some strayed away from the established truth. That is for exotericism. As for esotericism, the esotericists of all religion agree almost on all points, and Islam is no exception to that.

>>20660008

>>20660118
I was hopin for the face morph one this one I got on google plus all this needless gay shit

>>20660122

>>20660105
“By Him in whose Hand is the life of Muhammad! Anyone from this nation, be they a Jew or a Christian, who hears of me and dies without believing in what I have come with, shall be among the inhabitants of Hell.”

this Hadith has been troubling me, if Christians have to convert to Islam after hearing the prophets message then wouldn’t that imply that past religions are now invalid

>>20660127
Yesssss! Now to posy on InCh for the bhangis

>>20660145
idk what the hell that means but good luck with your endeavors

>>20660036
Very few Devraj worshippers left.

>>20660132
“As for those who disbelieve in Our Signs, We will roast them in a Fire. Every time their skins are burned off We will replace them with new skins so that they can taste the punishment. Allah is Almighty, All-Wise.” [Sūrat an-Nisāʾ 4:56]

Anybody who has unironically studied Islam can never take it seriously.

>>20660132
Sunni hadiths are full of Umayyad fabrications written two centuries after the Prophet's death. Shia Islam makes a distinction between the intentional unbeliever (kafir) who understands the Islam of ahl al-bayt is true but rejects it; and the one who is in the state of unbelief because of weakness of intellect and/or lack of knowledge (mustad'af). The former are sent straight to hell but the latter's salvation depends on God's judgment.

>>20660024
The nigger was pretty cool.
Was he telling the truth? Most people would just claim they did all the work themselves

>>20660105
In a way. It views previous itself as the perfected version of Christianity and Judaism, and there were many unnamed prophets

>>20660184
16:36 says messengers were sent to *every* nation, so it's not just the Biblical prophets that are referred to.

>>20660164
This is like microplastics of the soul

>>20660176
That’s still against perennialism

>>20660212
Perennialism doesn't say religions agree with each other exoterically. It says they agree esoterically. Even so, exoterically considered, Schuon says Islam has a right to view itself above other religions because it comes later than them.

>>20655749
Isn't that too much? Tell me the three or five essentials and I might read their works some day. Come on, we have jobs, families, friends... How can anyone read all of that in any depth?

>>20660218
my problem then is that I’m not exoterically Muslim if a disagree with the Quran. Is the point that you just shouldn’t care at all and only use the exoteric practices as a mean to the universal esoteric?

>>20660250
If I understand you correctly, you think all (or at least some religions) are equal with respect to truthfulness. But how can they equal when they disagree? Surely there must he a hierarchy? How do you disagree with the Quran precisely?

>>20660266
I do see Islam has having the better interpretation of God, but I also see other revelations as having valid views on God, but those views have been corrupted partially which is why idol worship happens sometimes in these religions. The part I’m having trouble with is that the Quran says that those who practice Christianity and Judaism and the other religions will go to hell for ever, which to me doesn’t make sense as those revelations are from God and thus must lead back to Him

>>20660278
>The part I’m having trouble with is that the Quran says that those who practice Christianity and Judaism and the other religions will go to hell for ever
That is for the intentional disbelievers (kuffar), not the deprived ones (mustad'afin). A discernment is needed here.

>>20660236
ngmi

>>20660278
Also you're forgetting an important verse:
"Truly those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabeans—whosoever believes in God and the Last Day and works righteousness shall have their reward with their Lord. No fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve." (Q 2:62)

>>20660302
so if someone is a catholic then they study Islam and end up with a perennialist view that sees Islam as a valid tradition, but they continue to practice Catholicism for whatever reason, would they go to hell according to Shias?

>>20660145
Do people post about Guenon (pbuh) on the Indian chans?

>>20660308
The rebuttal I read to that is that it’s referring to Christians etc before Muhammad pbuh, but I don’t know if that’s true and if the Sunni Hadith i quoted is made up than that rebuttal wouldn’t make sense.

http://myreligionislam.com/detail.asp?Aid=5972

this article lists a ton of verses that say disbelievers will go to hell eternally, I may be misunderstanding who the disbelievers are though

>>20660320
These are some that stood out to me

(6. Verily, those who disbelieve from among the People of the Scripture and idolaters, will abide in the fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.) (7. Verily, those who believe and do righteous good deeds, they are the best of creatures.) (8. Their reward with their Lord is Eternal Gardens, underneath which rivers flow. They will abide therein forever, Allah will be pleased with them, and they well-pleased with Him. That is for him who fears his Lord.)

(Whoever rebels against Allah and His Messenger and oversteps His bounds [rules of religion], Allah will make him enter a Fire, where he will abide forever.) [An-Nisa' 14]

(Whoever opposes the Messenger and follows a path other than that of the Believers, We will leave him in that path and make him enter Hell. What a bad place it is!) [An-Nisa' 115]

(Allah never forgives rejecters and the unjust. He guides them to the path of Hell, where they will abide forever. And this is easy for Allah.) [An-Nisa' 168, 169]

(Those who say, "Allah is the Messiah, son of Maryam" have become disbelievers. Allah forbids Paradise for him who ascribes partners to Him. His abode is the Fire, and there are no helpers for the unjust.) [Al-Ma'idah 72]

>>20660311
According to the Shia view, the mistake here would be supposing that Islam is merely valid, and not above, other traditions. That is not to say only one tradition can be valid, but of course, when they differ, some of them should be above others. As for the rest of your question, I will translate the view of an important 20th century orthodox Shi'a Ayatollah, Morteza Motahhari, on the matter:

"If someone has the quality of submission and the truth of Islam is hidden from him for some reason, and he is innocent in this regard, God will never punish him, he is a person who will be saved from hell."

"In my view, if there are people who do good to other people and even good to a living being, whether human or animal, without any expectation and even in the depth of their conscience, they do not serve to see their face in the mirror. They see the existence of the disadvantaged, that is, the fear of having such a fate is not their driving factor, but the motive of charity and service is so strong in them that if they know that they will not get any benefit, even Not a single person will be aware of their work, and no one will say 'God bless you' to them, they still do that good deed and are not influenced by habits and the like, it should be said:"

"In the depths of the minds of these people, there is a light of God's knowledge, and assuming that they deny it with their tongues, it is a confession in the depths of their minds, their thoughts are in fact and the essence of denial is an illusion that they have imagined instead of God, or Denial is another illusion that they imagined instead of returning to God and the Day of Judgment, not denying God and the true resurrection... Therefore, it is not unlikely that such people will not actually and practically be included among the people of disbelief, even though they deny it verbally. It is counted, by Allah I know."

>>20660311
According to the Shia view, the mistake here would be supposing that Islam is merely valid, and not above, other traditions. That is not to say only one tradition can be valid, but of course, when they differ, some of them should be above others. As for the rest of your question, I will translate the view of an important 20th century orthodox Shi'a Ayatollah, Morteza Motahhari, on the matter:

"If someone has the quality of submission and the truth of Islam is hidden from him for some reason, and he is innocent in this regard, God will never punish him, he is a person who will be saved from hell."

"In my view, if there are people who do good to other people and even good to a living being, whether human or animal, without any expectation and even in the depth of their conscience, they do not serve to see their face in the mirror. They see the existence of the disadvantaged, that is, the fear of having such a fate is not their driving factor, but the motive of charity and service is so strong in them that if they know that they will not get any benefit, even Not a single person will be aware of their work, and no one will say 'God bless you' to them, they still do that good deed and are not influenced by habits and the like, it should be said:"

"In the depths of the minds of these people, there is a light of God's knowledge, and assuming that they deny it with their tongues, it is a confession in the depths of their minds, their thoughts are in fact and the essence of denial is an illusion that they have imagined instead of God, or Denial is another illusion that they imagined instead of returning to God and the Day of Judgment, not denying God and the true resurrection... Therefore, it is not unlikely that such people will not actually and in practice be included among the people of disbelief, even though on the surface they are counted as disbelievers. And God knows best."

>>20660320
>>20660330
I will try to see if I can find relevant Shia hadiths and come back to you later soon. For the moment see the excerpt I posted above from this Ayatollah.

>>20660393
If someone was initiated into advaita Vedanta or another tradition would the fact that they transcended the exoteric change anything?

send me a friend request and I will introduce you to the /lit/ guénon discord server
Julian#2309

>>20660311
>>20660320
I found this in a highly regarded Shi'i commentary of the Qur'an, Tafsir al-Mizan by Allama Tabataba'i:

"But not so the [truly] weak and oppressed among the men, women, and children, who neither have access to any means nor are guided to any way; As for such, it may be that God will pardon them, for God is Pardoning, Forgiving." (Q 4:98-4:99)

"This verse of the second chapter absolves one from responsibility in cases of lack of ability, and at the same time lays down a criterion for distinguishing a genuine inability from a false one. That is, the man should not have contributed towards that inability; if his total or partial ignorance of religion emanates from his own negligence or wrong choice then he should be held responsible for it. In other words, it is he who has committed that sin. On the other hand, if that ignorance is caused – not by his own actions – but by some factors beyond his power, then it cannot be attributed to his own choice – he cannot be accused of committing a sin, or of being arrogant; he has not opposed the truth nor has he rejected it intentionally. In short, for him is what he has earned, and upon him is what he has wrought."

The takeaway here is whether the mistake in belief was caused by a genuine lack of knowledge or error of the intellect.

>>20660500
I don't think we have hadiths commenting on Advaita Vedanta but this verse of the Quran strikes me as relevant:
"And were the People of the Book to believe, that would be better for them. Among them are believers, but most of them are iniquitous." (Q 3:110)
So this means *a minority* of the People of the Book are actually believers. In 3:113-115, the Quran defines these people and says, "Whatsoever good they do, they will not be denied it. And God knows the reverent."

>>20655753
>Guenon
Who?

PBUH

>>20661300
Rene Guenon is the most correct, smartest and most important person of the twentieth century. There was no smarter, deeper, clearer, absolute Guenon and probably could not be. It is no coincidence that the French traditionalist René Allé in one collection dedicated to R. Guenon compared Guenon with Marx. It would seem that there are completely different, opposite figures. Guenon is a conservative hyper-traditionalist. Marx is a revolutionary innovator, a radical overthrower of traditions. But Rene Halle rightly guessed the revolutionary message of each of Guenon's statements, the extreme, cruel noncomformity of his position, which turns everything and everything upside down, the radical nature of his thought.

The fact is that René Guenon is the only author, the only thinker of the twentieth century, and maybe many, many centuries before that, who not only identified and confronted with each other secondary language paradigms, but also put into question the very essence of language. The language of Marxism was methodologically very interesting, subtly reducing the historical existence of mankind to a clear and convincing formula for confronting labor and capital. Being a great paradigmatic success, Marxism was so popular and won the minds of the best intellectuals of the twentieth century. But R. Guenon is an even more fundamental generalization, an even more radical removal of masks, an even broader worldview contestation, putting everything into question.

- Aleksandr Dugin

Guénon undermined and then; with uncompromising intellectual rigour, demolished all the assumptions taken for granted by modern man, that is to say Western or westernised man. Many others had been critical of the direction taken by European civilization since the so-called 'Renaissance', but none had dared to be as radical as he was or to re-assert with such force the principles and values which Western culture had consigned to the rubbish tip of history. His theme was the 'primordial tradition' or Sofia perennis, expressed-so he maintained-both in ancient mythologies and in the metaphysical doctrine at the root of the great religions. The language of this Tradition was the language of symbolism, and he had no equal in his interpretation of this symbolism. Moreover he turned the idea of human progress upside down, replacing it with the belief almost universal before the modern age, that humanity declines in spiritual excellence with the passage of time and that we are now in the Dark Age which precedes the End, an age in which all the possibilities rejected by earlier cultures have been spewed out into the world, quantity replaces quality and decadence approaches its final limit. No one who read him and understood him could ever be quite the same again.

- Gai Eaton

>>20655749
I've never seen this picture of him before. It's nice...

>>20660534
ur soft

bump