/lit/ - Literature

O PORTUGUÊS.

>>20640385
And miss out the works of Cohelo no thanks. I’m studying it and will learn it

>>20640376
start with the greeks

who is this again? who the fuck is this

>>20640385
D I L A T E ` A P P L E ` F A G G O T

>>20640454
A random qt on YouTube.

>>20640376
Arabic

>>20640454
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfG2VhlQgy5bHGmkpeKcjVA

>>20640376
>>20640479
I am going to learn Spanish after looking at this woman.

bump

she's too cute, i'd literally kill dozens of men for her

>>20640376
Sumerian

>>20640479
that looks like a dude you fucking homos

>>20640479
>That poorly hidden moustache
>Anons are fawning over "her"
Lit gay af frfr

>>20640385
Irremediavelmente baseado — na mais pura intuição literária.

>>20640385
>>20641674

what literature does portuguese have?

>>20641574
>>20641586
must be hard for you

>>20640376
French

>>20641891
Just because you get hard by looking at girly dudes, doesn't mean everyone's into that.

>>20641691
Camões, Pessoa, Saramago, Machado de Assis, Guimarães Rosa and Lispector.

>>20641982
>Guimarães Rosa and Lispector

I highly recommend checking out Almeida Garrett and Eça de Queirós if you have the chance; they are both leagues ahead of Rosa and Lispector in quality.

>>20642091
It's oranges and apples, anon

>>20640376
Icelandic. Almost no one speaks it, but it has a huge store of medieval writing that counts as one of the world's great literary treasures.

For anglophones, learning Icelandic is a fascinating look at a virtually unchanged medieval relative of Old English (and other Germanic languages, of course). The grammar is a bitch, but I find unending rewards in the study.

For the > 50% of /lit/ denizens who are white racists, learning Icelandic will make you feel like you're closer to Óðinn, and you might learn enough to avoid getting bullshit runes tattooed on your lower back.

>>20640376
English. There are frankly a lassitude of persons who refuse to speak ooga booga chopsdicks pidgin aka American English. And the swarthy mast of ESLs butchering our collective tongue.

>>20642239
Based, Borges wanted to learn Icelandic if i'm not wrong.

>>20642239
Icelanders are annoyingly arrogant island-elitists though. I wouldn't recommend going to there if you actually want to keep your fascination for the language.

How do I learn Spanish? I only know enough to play soccer with Mexicans and half read the Spanish language signs on all the monuments in San Antonio. Is there a book like Wheelock or whatever those classical language autists use?

>>20640385
baseado

>>20642303
Use graded readers.

>>20642303
And don't use graded readers for too long. Maybe 3 months at most. There is not a corporate monopoly over the Spanish language learners like with Latin learners.

>>20642239
90% of Icelandic/Nordic shit are saga's about some guy getting ill while fishing or how his kid tell off a cliff so he's blaming the neighbours, it's fucking boring trite.

>>20642332
That's literally all national myths bro.

>>20640376
Unironically Japanese, which is also the least overlooked language for basically everything else. People don't learn Japanese to read novels and LNs, they learn it for games/anime/manga and shit, without realizing the wealth of written word available. LNs in particular are nice because their comparatively short length means that lots of them come out, and many of them are able to explore themes/characters/ideas that would be thrown away in "proper" novels. And while individual LNs may not be that long on their own, series works can make up for this very quickly.

>>20642343
Please my national myth is about our heavenly king getting cucked by one of his knights.

>>20642351
Yeah and Egill Skallagrimsson's saga is about him cutting people in half for 100 pages straight. Stop cherry picking you fucking homo.

>>20642353
>Discussing Norse literature
>Mentions Egill's saga
Every time

>>20642370
Kys

>>20642298
Well, I've been there seven times, and just came back from being there for two months. I've found Icelanders to be friendly, well-educated, and intensely interested in the rest of the world. So maybe I'm just hanging out with the wrong people. Their immigration policy is really regressive and racist, but hardly unique to Iceland.

Oh...are you perhaps Danish? They do tend to mock Danes a lot.

>>20642332
As has been pointed out already, that's a pretty dumb observation. Unless you're reading some family saga that no one gives a shit about, I don't know where you'd get this impression. Have you read Grettir's saga, Laxdæla saga, or the Eddas?

>>20642399
>I've found Icelanders to be friendly, well-educated, and intensely interested in the rest of the world. So maybe I'm just hanging out with the wrong people.

Being a smug bougie libshit is precisely the kind of arrogance I'm talking about. But since you're clearly exactly like that yourself, it's no wonder you didn't notice.

>>20642439
I guess it's helpful that we can mutually agree to disregard each other's opinions.

>>20642303
I learned it when I was like one year old without studying any grammar lmao I'm sure it's not that difficult just inpoot hermano

>>20642350
how does it feel to read kanji?

>>20642399
>Their immigration policy is really regressive and racist

Not wanting to flood your country full of browns who live off welfare payments the rest of their lives doesn't make you a racist. It just means you have self-respect.

>>20642399
>Their immigration policy is really regressive and racist
you mean "rational"

>>20642472
This isn't really the place for the /pol/ argument you're looking for, but the Icelandic system is arbitrary and self-contradictory. It's not even honest about the underlying desire to remain ethnically Nordic, so it sneaks around that, in the process victimizing people who are doing their best to abide by the rules. That's the real problem I have with it.

>>20642487
you said racist. that means it's good

>>20642487
>It's not even honest about the underlying desire to remain ethnically Nordic

Of course it's not honest about that lol, in our liberal society being ethnocentric in any way is seen as a mortal sin.

>>20642499
>>20642513
Fuck off with that cliche edgelord shit, please. This is a literature board.

>>20642526
no u

>>20642526
>nooooo goy don't act accordingly to your class interests
kill yourself, bourgeois

>>20642487
>This isn't really the place for the /pol/ argument you're looking for

You're the one calling one of the most over-the-top progressive and liberal countries on the entire planet for "regressive and racist" bro, don't open a can of worms you're not willing to defend.

>>20641691
>>20641982
What untranslated literature does Portuguese have

>>20642526
<---

>>20642541
>untranslated
everything is translated nowadays, and in the next few years almost perfect automatic translations will be possible with ia. you don't learn a language because it has stuff that's still untranslated

>>20642550
>ia
I mean AI

>>20642550
>in the next few years almost perfect automatic translations will be possible with AI
do you really think this will happen? if it does then in like 50 years at the earliest

>>20642563
in the meantime almost everything worth reading has been translated
learning languages for reading literature is one of those things people do because they feel like it

>>20641691
Antunes Lobo

>>20642540
Note that I only called out the immigration policy. There are a lot of things they have going which help Iceland from descending into the toxic corporatist shithole some would like it to be.

In any case, I only mentioned Iceland's deficits in order to concede that the place isn't perfect -- and that's true no matter what your political orientation. Whatever was meant by Icelanders being "arrogant island-elitists" hasn't really materialized in this thread, but in any case it's not pertinent to the topic, which is the language and the literature.

So, to steer back to the topic, I'll also add that the modern Icelandic literary scene is also really vibrant. Nobel laureate Halldór Laxness is an obvious example, but the "per capita" number of authors, and the degree to which Icelanders are avid readers, is well-known. Like many contemporary national myths, it's exaggerated, but I've found it to be true in practice. I haven't had the quality of in-person literary conversations like I've had in Iceland since I was in school, and the degree to which natives are multilingual in their reading is impressive, too.

>>20642597
Everything you like about Iceland would be destroyed if it had a liberal immigration policy. That's the problem you and every other globally-minded liberal doesn't get. A person like Halldor Laxness would never have existed in an Iceland where Reykjavik was 70% Pakistani.

>>20642541
>>20642550
>>20642563
>perfect ai translations
doubt. reddit tier science worship

you clearly dont know what youre talking about as machine translation faces hurdles that only truly conscious beings may be able to identify properly

and hes right 50 years is minimum to get anywhere near

>>20642541
The best BR literature is untranslated. Lusophones are ridiculously sentimental in general, so the most famous books tend to be those with nice plots and relatable characters. In other words, Goodreads-tier, NYT top ten-tier stuff.
If you prefer experimental literature or are some kind of "post-modernist" like me (by which I mean, for instance, that my favorite contemporary Anglo novels are those by John Barth and Thomas Pynchon, not those by Philip Roth and Sally Rooney), then the vast majority of BR and PT literature that is worth-reading will be unavailable to you unless you read the language.
Sadly, I suspect this might be similar in the case of many other languages.

Here are three major books, as far as I know still untranslated:
O Guesa, by Sousândrade- a 19th century epic poem which uses different languages, collages and other methods which would later be used by modernists such as Pound. Brazil being Brazil, it was nearly ignored (although admired by some of the foremost literary authorities, such as Camilo Castelo Branco), but the Campos brothers rediscovered it in the 60's. It's a difficult book and still barely printed, which is why I myself have only read parts of it.
Invenção de Orfeu, by Jorge de Lima - a 10 thousand line epic poem whose most interesting aspect is perhaps its author's sheer virtuosity of form. It contains infinitely variable music, all kinds of meter (most notably a hexassyllabic rhyming sestina), and has an overall symbolist bent to it, but at the same time a lot of metapoetical preocuppations. Poet Mário Faustino considered it our best book since Camões. It helps that de Lima was a master of the craft who was writing fine Romantic sonnets by the age of 12.
Galáxias, by Haroldo de Campos - supposedly a travel book, this is actually a meta- or post-literary meditation on literature and culture where words are connected not so much by syntax as by meaning (or meaninglessness), sound and similarity. It sometimes reads like Finnegans Wake (a book on which Haroldo wrote a book, btw), and at other times like Gertrude Stein on hallucinogens.
Haroldo was one of the Campos brothers, the other being Augusto (still alive, aged 91), and they, together with Décio Pignatari, are among the founders of concrete poetry movement in the 50's. They're probably the three major literary figures in post-war Brazil (if you are an experimentalist like me), and most of their works is untranslated. Regardless, they were much admired by the likes of Ezra Pound (who even considered moving to Brazil at their request), Octávio Paz, Umberto Eco, Pierre Boulez, John Cage, and more currently Marjorie Perloff. BR experimental writing has taken one or two new turns since then, but their work probably remains the standard. I myself am trying to change that, but whatever.

You can read some of Galáxias (and other Haroldo poems) by searching for Novas: Selected Writings (Avant-Garde & Modernism Collection), at Library Genesis.

>>20642623
I agree. But while you think I'm some unthinking libtard who doesn't understand how I'm helping to destroy civilization, the truth is just that I think the effects of globalization are inevitable, and these cultures we venerate are going to be relics of the past no matter how much you kick and scream about it. I'm aware that the principles of decency, openness, fairness, etc., which motivate many of my political choices, are being openly exploited and are ill-prepared to preserve the old order. I'm just fine with that, because the culture of the last few thousand years, while it has produced many beautiful, worthwhile things, is premised on some of the worst things about human nature. That'll be over soon, no matter whether some particular countries cling to closed borders or other desperate measures. I'm glad to be alive in a time where I can still have some awareness of this earlier era of humankind, and am going to spend my time learning as much about it as I can. I'm ambivalent about whether I'd like to see the homogenized monoculture we're heading for, but unless we start uploading our brains soon, it's a moot point.

>>20642677
A very great post that illustrates how extremely closely related to the psychological states of fatalism and nihilism liberalism is. The answer to the world becoming more shit is, of course, to do nothing.

>>20642691
But you're missing it. It won't be shit. It will just be different, and you're living in the past.

>>20642669
Here's an excerpt from Galáxais in Eng translation:

from Galaxies

and here I begin I spin here tbe beguine I respin and begin to release
and realize life begins not arrives at tbe end of a trip whicb is why I
begin to respin to write-in tbousand pages write thousandone pages
to end write begin write beginend witb writing and so I begin to
respin to retrace to rewrite write on writing the future of writing’s
the tracing the slaving a tbousandone nights in a thousandone
pages or a page in one night tbe same nights the same pages same
semblance resemblance reassemblance wbere the end is begin where
to write about writing's not writing about not writing and so I begin
to unspin tbe unknown unbegun and trace me a book where all’s
chance and perchance all a book maybe maybe not a travel
navelof-the-world book a travel navelof-the-book world wbere
tripping's the book and its being's the trip and so I begin since the
trip is beguine and I turn and return since the turning's respinning beginning realizing a book is its sense every page is its sense every
line of a page every word of a line is the sense of the line of the page
of tbe book wbich essays any book an essay of essays of the book
whicb is why the begin ends begins and end spins and re-ends and
refines and retunes tbe fine funnel of tbe begunend spun into the
runend in the end of the beginend refines the refined of the final
where it finishes beginnish reruns and returns and the finger
retraces a tbousandone stories an incey wince-story and so count of
no account I don't recount tbe nonstory uncounts me discounts me
the reverse of the story is snot can be rot maybe story depends on the
moment the glory depends on the now and the never on although
and no-go and nowbere and noplace and nibil and nixit and zero
and zilch-it and never can nothing be all can be ali can be total
sum total surpriseing summation of sumptuous assumptiosn and here
I respin I begin to project my echo the wreck oh recurrent echo of the
echoing blow the hollows of Moreaus the marrow that’s beyonder the
over the thisaway everywhere neverwhere overhere
overthere forward more backward less there in revers vice verse
prosa converse I begin I respin verse begin vice respin so that
summated story won’t consume consummate saltimbocca bestride
me barebackbonesberide me begin the beguine of the trip where the
travel’s the Marvel the scrabble’s the marble the vigil’s the travel the
trifle’s the sparkle the embers of fable discount into nothing accounts
for the story since spinning beginning I’m speaking


Translated byy Jill Levint
(from a basic versin by Jon Tolman)

>>20642691
Also, by the way, my view is NOTHING like most liberals. They'd be horrified by what I'm saying. On the contrary, they tend to be stupidly hopeful in ways that contrast in obvious ways with the stupidities of the conservative mindset.

>>20642693
>It won't be shit.

okay Mr. Graph.

>>20642706
Not him, but the world is neither good nor bad, it just is. The sooner you accept this truth the better.

>>20642732
Try glowing abit less next time fed.

>>20642732
>>20642763
but its true, the world doesnt really have an inherent morality, nor does it have moral agency as the world isnt conscious. unless you have a philosophical position to contend with this assumption.

what makes him a glowie anyway?

viewing the world in neutral terms isnt very problematic by itself, its when that interferes with our conscious moral judgment, reaching tranny amounts of lapsing and schizophrenia, that it becomes a problem.

>>20642732
>>20642785
You need to be 18 to post here friend

once again some nupol tards completely melting down
dont forget to stream your eventual murdersuicide

maybe chinese, both classical and vernacular
>>20640482
what's there you recommend?
>>20641561
not bad - akkadian is more attractive for non-scholars, though
>>20642239
agreed

>>20642785
The most powerful people in the world are literally liberal imperialists bro, of course the world is going somewhere by design.

>>20642669
Good post

>>20640385
u r fucking useless

>>20642857
They are a sad bunch.
And to think that I was once more or less similar to them.
It's a TERRIBLE existence. You think civilization is falling apart, science has been taken over by wokes, free speech is dead (kinda true, but it always was), babies are being genocided (fortunately I was always pro-abortion), China will take over the West, art has become total degeneracy, all women are whores (almost true, but nearly everyone always was, and it's not at all clear that this is bad), and so on. Not to mention the Christians, who see all this as some kind of the devil's presence or whatever, and the conspiracy theorists who think the Democratic party is run by pedos.
The only thing I can compare it to is the left-wing apocalyptic cult when it comes to global warming (which is real, for sure, and a major issue, but far from apocalyptic) and things like "black youth is being genocided by cops" (statistically false), and "Putin controls Donald Trump" (probably just Americanist propaganda).

It's like all of those people are masochists who wish the world to be as painful as possible for them.
In such a confusing world, that's perhaps OK in your youth, but sooner or later you have to grow up out of that (better sooner than later).

>>20642857
If anyone is going to commit a murder-suicide it's all the status-seeking libshits in this thread that think anyone is impressed by their ability to memorize 3 sets of casus in a foreign language.

>>20642857
>>20642908
You will never be a woman.

>>20642541
Pessoa's poetry.

They are a sad bunch and the only reply they have is this >>20642928
If all women are whores, someone's doing the fucking, and they know it's not them, so in order not to face the unbearably painful view that the same 'degenerates' they criticize are the ones using their dicks to turn women into whores, they choose to dwell on the lie that anyone who disagrees with them must inevitably be a tranny, thus leaving the 'women as whores' model unexplained, or else convincing themselves that there must be some conservatives/fascists, namely their father or older brother figures such as, respectively, Trump himself and BAP, who are, so to speak, 'doing the fucking for them'. This is why BAP became so popular among them: before he revealed himself as an obvious homosexual, he seemed to be the refutation of the view that 'women are whores and it's the commies and the immigrants who are doing all the fucking', a view upon which their thought processes totally freeze as soon as they even begin to imagine it.

Some Nordic language and Italian actually.

>>20642990
Dilate

>>20642990
>a whole paragraph of cope
You trannies never cease to make me laugh with your insane cope posts.

>>20640376
Korean, pic unrelated

>>20642693
And exactly how will it be different, given that current trends continue? You can’t shut down your brain and pretend you can’t make a projection. You ought to make a reasonable estimate about what will happen. If you think about it, it doesn’t seem like much good will come from it. For those who enjoy novelty, mainly liberals, it will be worse aesthetically due to the lack of differentiated culture. For those who enjoy bonds, traditions, and meaning, mainly conservatives, it will be worse morally for the same reasons. It’s only better if you care about peace and prosperity. You’ll have a whole ton of cheap trinkets and gadgets to fill the void left in your heart. Not much to kill for, but not much to live for either.

>>20643015
Keep crying about 'modernity' and being a miserable idiot, then.

>>20640376
Bump.

>>20642350
>and many of them are able to explore themes/characters/ideas that would be thrown away in "proper" novels
I'm intrigued. Have any example?

>>20642990
Ironically this is the most /pol/ tier comment I've read here in weeks

>>20642526
Go back nigger boy

>>20643662
It's just the truth.

>>20642303
Write an essay

Sanskrit for non-pajeets

>>20640376
Mexican.

>>20640376
>>20640479
Me gusta brown girls :>

>>20646482
Are you saying Nahuatl, Mexican Spanish or are you saying that she is?