/lit/ - Literature

>>20606986
What the fuck are you on about?

>>20606986
Even in a deterministic world intelligent agents act as if they have free will and their subjective experience is for them as far as we know as if they have free will

well true but that's why western "justice" has been moving from punishment to the idea of "rehabilitation"
you killed someone? well some outside condition made your do it, we're gonna set you straight whether you like it or not so that you won't do it again

>>20606986
Free will is not christian. Humans intuitively come to believe in free will to model other human's behaviour in our minds.

And if pre-determinism is real then the torture that the criminal recieves is pre-determined too and hence not immoral. (Most likely ethics are not universal but instead a resultant of human culture but that's another debate)

>>20606986
>LL cultural ideas of morality are rooted in the idea of christian free will that's very embedded into our culture.

so you believe in a materialistic universe with no free will. Tell me your jewish without telling me your jewish. Hope that edgy nihilism works out for you.

>>20606986
Funny. Behaviorists proposed a similar determinist perspective. Grand-scale morality and ethics, thru a detached non-anthropocentric perspective, literally will never be discussed on /lit/ or any of the other boards. The entire subject becomes incomprehensible to most 4chan users sadly, turns into shit flinging black-and-white Christianity vs. Atheism vs. Organized-Meme-Religion-of-the-Month discussions. Probably unironically the great filter to weed out every illiterate troglodyte retard on this board

Hell-on-earth scenarios are actually possible, doubly when you consider A.I. and modern technological developments

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/N4AvpwNs7mZdQESzG/the-dilemma-of-worse-than-death-scenarios

>The most extreme example would be an indefinite state of suffering comparable to the biblical Hell, perhaps caused by an ASI running simulations. Obviously preventing this has a higher priority than preventing scenarios of a lower severity.

>Scenarios which could mean indefinite suffering:

>1. ASI programmed to maximize suffering
>2. Alien species with the goal of maximizing suffering
>3. We are in a simulation and some form of "hell" exists in it
>4. ASI programmed to reflect the values of humanity, including religious hells
>5. Unknown unknowns

>Worse than death scenarios are highly neglected. This applies to risks of all severities. It seems very common to be afraid of serial killers, yet I have never heard of someone with the specific fear of being tortured to death, even if most people would agree that the latter is worse. This pattern is also seen in the field of AI: the "killer robot" scenario is very well-known, as is the paperclip maximiser, but the idea of an unfriendly ASI creating suffering is not talked about as often.

>The dilemma is that it does not seem possible to continue living as normal when considering the prevention of worse than death scenarios. If it is agreed that anything should be done to prevent them then Pascal's Mugging seems inevitable. Suicide speaks for itself, and even the other two options, if taken seriously, would change your life. What I mean by this is that it would seem rational to completely devote your life to these causes. It would be rational to do anything to obtain money to donate to AI safety for example, and you would be obliged to sleep for exactly nine hours a day to improve your mental condition, increasing the probability that you will find a way to prevent the scenarios. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on this dilemma and if you think there are better ways of reducing the probability.

Honestly you can't really discuss anything vaguely related to free will morality or ethics here, especially when half of these fucking retards quote the Bible or Guenon. They will literally ignore anything other than strawman arguments or basedjaks, most remain openly anti-science or apologist, the other half can't even follow along with basic fucking 3rd grade level conversation

>>20606986
The slave said "But it was fated that I should steal," Zeno answered, "And that I should beat you."

>>20606986
Then no one should be rewarded for good things either, since it was determined and they are just spectators. There should be no Olympic Gold medals because it is amoral to reward that which they have no control over in the same way it is amoral to punish that which they have no control over.
>>20609102
this

>>20609102
Ah, thanks right. Determinism + stupidity = immorality

>>20606986
If everything is predetermined, it's pointless for you to try to resist punishment.

>>20606986
Duh...
Eye for an eye is barbaric
Turning the other cheek is based

>>20606986
Determinism would only really mean you should have sympathy or mercy for people, and not act out of revenge, but out of genuine harm reduction. At very least, the death penalty should be abolished because murders are often just products of their conditions. They had a childhood, or they some sort of genetic defect that makes them harmful to society. Kinda like how we don't execute prisoners of war for the same reason.

>pre-determined
>moral/immoral
choose one