/lit/ - Literature

>>20594642
It’s a good passage for what it is, what’s theissue?

>>20594642
AMERICAN TOLKIEN
But can I mention how disappointing the Myrish Swamp scene was. Cersei just pulls on Taena's nips and fingers her cunt a bit and then moves on. Fanfic writers are better because they expanded the scene.
Also, any more writers that dabble in lezdom? Outside of Jordan's Wheel of Time.

Pretty good
Got bad gastro camping once, reminds me of that, but yeah he should of written about her endlessly walking and eating elf cakes, midwits live that shit

>>20594657
GRRM is notoriously bad at writing sex scenes. Most of the time he makes such weird as hell word choices that it really makes the whole thing feel like he was stroking one out as he wrote it.

>>20594642

>>20594673
The more I think about it the more I think GRRM uses the books as a weird escapist fantasy. Many heroic characters are either frail intellectuals (Tyrion, Bran, Sam) or social outcasts (Jon, Sandor, Theon, Sam). Furthermore there seems to be an odd correlation between physical weakness and moral goodness, as seen with Jamie and Theon, who both go from villains to heroes when they become weak. There's not necessarily anything wrong with this, and GRRM is hardly the first author to do it, but when you think about it it seems like GRRM has a bit of a grudge against physically fit, socially well-adjusted men.

>>20594642
Where would an editor not hungrily lapping at his balls have cut this off? After the second sentence?

>>20594680
What's wrong with those word choices? I liked them when I was a teenager. They made me feel smarter for reading lowbrow shit.

>>20594694
Really only sentences 3 and 4 need removed.

>>20594690
I thought that that was a subtext to be taken for granted as soon as Tyrion was introduced.

>>20594695
You answered your own question. Sometimes he doesn’t even use them correctly.

>>20594698
> Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. When she closed her eyes at last, Dany did not know whether she would be strong enough to open them again. She dreamt of her dead brother.
Yeah, that would have been fine.

>>20594690
> Many heroic characters are either frail intellectuals (Tyrion, Bran, Sam)
and more aren’t
>or social outcasts (Jon, Sandor, Theon, Sam).
grrm is the opposite of a social outcast retard
>Furthermore there seems to be an odd correlation between physical weakness and moral goodness, as seen with Jamie and Theon, who both go from villains to heroes when they become weak
Jaime becomes sympathetic as soon as he gets a POV
And Theon never becomes a hero
Terrible takes

>>20594707
>grrm is the opposite of a social outcast retard

He's still a morbidly obese, awkward sci-fi writer. He's not exactly Ernest Hemingway.

>Jaime becomes sympathetic as soon as he gets a POV

Immediately before he gets his arm cut off.

>And Theon never becomes a hero

He saves that girl from being raped by Ramsey in book 5.

>>20594730
So? that doesn’t make him a social outcast, he’s the exact opposite of that you utter moron
yeah when we see his POV
so? still not a hero by any measure

>>20594741
If you don't think GRRM is a social outcast I'd hate to see what you are like.

>>20594741
>spends years on his mountain in a cabin
>descends the mountain once or twice per year to visit his wife and attend cons
>not a social outcast

>>20594690
i think this is one story where the good or bad characters are judged on merit and not wholesale declared to be in one camp for the entirety of their fictional lives.

Examples include to name but a few:
Davon Lannister
Baelor Breakspear, Maekar
Eddard Stark
Most of the white knights

>>20594747
Yeah a famous, popular, successful writer is a social outcast…
you are retarded aren’t you?

>>20594752
>esl doesn’t know the meaning of social outcast

>>20594782
define social outcast and make it abundantly clear to me that my description does not describe a social outcast

>>20594741
>>20594707
you cannot seriously believe that GRRM isn't basically a textbook example of social outcast

>>20594802
>>20594797
Don't argue with him. He's a social outcast.

>>20594778
>>20594782
Being rich and famous doesn’t mean you aren't an outcast, especially if you are an artist. Look at Thomas Pynchon or Howard Hughes. It's about your demeanor and lifestyle.

>>20594690
I would too and do as well for us being fat autists

>>20594778
How long has he been famous? He's been writing for decades with relatively moderate success until Game of Thrones. Sure he's famous now, but the circumstances that shaped him and his thinking are far different.

>>20594823
He's famous because of the tv show. His books were always niche.

>>20594823
Exactly. He was not known to very many people in the 90s and 2000s when he wrote ASOIAF. He's only been famous since GoT came out in 2011 and that happens to be the final year he released a ASOIAF book.

>>20594797
prob defined as someone not accepted by society or their social group right? so not a extremely popular writer

>>20594752
>social outcast
>has a wife
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

>>20594802
how is he a social outcast?

>>20594828
He lives separate from her. Do you read his blog? I do. He is up in some cabin in the woods where he spends all his time writing. He only comes down a few times per month to get fucked by the wife then climbs the mountain to keep "writing" even though we all know he's just hiding from the world until he dies, so he doesn't have to live with the same of making a worse ending than D&D

>>20594812
No it’s about not being accepted ie outcast, hint is in the words
So yeah being extremely popular is kind of the opposite of that
was Tolkien a social outcast?

>>20594832
>lives in a cabin in the woods
>hides from his wife who lives in a separate house
>hides from fans
>hasn't written a single word in 11 years
>just eating all day in his cabin growing fatter and fatter
>occasionally zoom calls some HBO producers about spin-offs

>>20594823
does that change his present state?

>>20594836
Social outcasts don't have wives. I would know, I am one.

>>20594836
Tbh, who cares about the ending. Actually making Bran some some wise wizard king would be a good enough of an ending, next to him shagging frogfu because turns out he can still lift it up. I just want to know what happens to dozens of minor characters and houses.

>>20594839
yeah that’s not being outcast
Learn English mate
is Johnny Depp a social outcast?

>>20594843
He never sees his wife. They live in separate houses, I read his blog. He's described it many times. He ostensibly lives in the 2nd house to focus on writing. Yet he never does, as he's not published a novel in 11 years. He keeps promising "any day now" yet we know it's bullshit. He talks to producers via phone and zoom calls. He literally only has a wife to get fucked once or twice per month, the rest of his time is spent in isolation in his cabin up on the montain (he himself calls it cabin on the mountain)

>>20594848
No, Johnny Depp isn't. But GRRM is, for the reasons I stated that you claim don't make him one.

>>20594850
At best he's a hermit by choice. If he were an outcast, getting married would be impossible. You have a very loose definition of "outcast".

>>20594860
Wearing a ring and having a contract don't mean he is not a social outcast. He is not part of society. He is alone in a separate house, not doing his job for the past 11 years, eating away the years left to him.

>>20594842
No. Do the characteristics of a person change all of a sudden when a change of fortune strikes them in their 60s?

>>20594839
>hasn't written a single word in 11 years
that makes him a social outcast?
Lmao imagine seething this much

>>20594866
The topic is if he’s a social outcast, when he got famous won’t change that, nice try tho

>>20594867
The implication is, he is not doing his job. Not seeing his wife. Not doing fuck all aside from heavily breathing, giggling and eating and sleeping.

>>20594864
By choice. He wasn't ostracized and cast out. Far from it, he is an extremely popular person.

>>20594860
>>20594848
you're being overly pedantic about the definition of outcast, ITT it was initially put forward relative to the way he handles characterisation with the physically weak characters being extra virtuous and intelligent, it is contextually appropriate to judge GRRM an outcast who to an extent embodies himself in the characters he creates. the idea of a literary outcast is not the same as some kind of fucking ted kaczynski type.

>>20594864
> He is not part of society
you are retarded

>>20594873
He has cast himself out, he is a social outcast. He is not part of society.

>>20594877
He does not have a society in his separate house that he lives in apart from his wife who lives elsewhere. He is not doing his job and even if he did, his job would not involve meeting other people, as writing is a solitary activity. He is not part of society.

>>20594871
Shame you're doing this on purpose.
He's an outcast because of his upbringing and relations he had with society as he grew up. The fact that he is famous now doesn't change how he grew up and he grew up as a social outcast

>>20594878
That's not what the word "outcast" means. The word you're looking for is "recluse" or "hermit".

>>20594884
>>20594874
And the characters he created were created in the 90s, way before he got famous.

>>20594885
N-no, you're a hercluse.

>>20594878
Esl use google and learn what words mean

>>20594889
George RR Martin is a kermit, and you cannot convince me otherwise.

>>20594881
yeah but that’s not what a social outcast is

>>20594886
What does that have to do with anything? If you create a murderous, or misogynistic, or a pedophile character does that make you one?

>>20594892
Social media tells me yes. If a man writes about pedophiles and woman haters, then they are pedophiles and woman haters.

>>20594884
He was never a social outcast tho, even when he was yo

>>20594895
You okay there? Got sniped by some social outcast?

>>20594894
You seem overly concerned about social media.

>>20594898
>mentions social media one (1) time
>overly concerned
Why did you pick out those two words from all the words I mentioned? Seems like you're overly concerned about social media.

>>20594901
Every 'point' you tried to make got answered, so you pulled social media out of the blue. You seem concerned about it. Seems like it rubs you the wrong way

>>20594908
It was a direct response to what you asked me. Yes, writers are being accused of those things if they handle the subject matter.

>>20594911
So you view the social media as all that matters in the world and what is said there or happens there affects your personal life in such a profound way that you can't escape it?

personally I like that this thread immediately devolved into a pointless snarky back-and-forth about whether or not GRRM is a social outcast, it shows the sexual frustration of a fanbase that has been denied the continuation of the franchise for what, 11 fucking years?

>>20594918
No. I don't care about social media, you keep bringing it up. I merely responded to your question, as to whether writers are being accused of those things. I'm not a writer. If I had said the newspaper says so, would you be accusing me of newspapers taking up my whole life? If I said the news report on TV said so, would you accuse me of television taking up my whole life? Stop being autistic, I merely answered your question.

>>20594926
when we know very well that he's a social outcast and what does sex have to do with not being able to read a book?

>>20594918
good example of REACHING so hard your arms might fly out of their sockets

>>20594918
Maybe learn to ask questions to which social media is not the correct answer.

>>20594928
>still doesn’t know what it means
No hope

>>20594931
Tell me what sex is then.

>>20594895
>someone this overweight
>not going through a Jew-in-1930s-tier adolescence

>>20594839
GIWTWM

>>20594952
He’s American
1/3 of the population is obese

>>20594930
not laughed this hard in ages, this thread is gold, keep going guys

>>20594956
Anon I was 5’9” 185lb in the Midwest growing up and caught shit constantly for being fat.
The children usually aren’t that fat. Full Americanization doesn’t set in until after college.

>>20594967
We’ll unlike you grrm was neither fat nor a manlet growing up

>>20594998

>>20594998
this fanbase

>>20595004
almost as bad as Tolkien fans

We could always write Winds of Winter ourselves

>>20595060
>brandon sanderson writes and submits the manuscript for winds of winter
>GRRM rolls in "ay go on then you young whipper snapper, oi ain't quite dead yet bahaHAHAAHA. also i'm definitely a social outcast"

>>20595060
someone tell /r/asoiaf to write one chapter a day for the next 3 months, that should be enough time.

>>20595065
Check Preston Jacobs project on Youtube. Its disgusting

>>20595091
I don't know who that is but if he created something disgusting, that's more than Grr Martin created over the past 11 years.

>>20595105
He makes videos about theories about the books. Those are an excellent listen, but since there are no more books to cover he started a project where community would write their own fan fiction Winds of Winter chapter by chapter. It's pretty bad, think he dropped it and it was a good decision to do so

>>20595117
Who know who else thought it was a good decision to stop writing Winds of Winter? G. R. R. M A R T I N

>>20595122
>Who know who
Blew it.

>>20594822
I'm a /fit/ autist, thank you very much.

Why does he have no offspring?

>>20595091

>>20595241
Obese people have a lower sperm count.

>>20595248
Does the sperm impregnate his fat, making him even more obese?

Its pretty obvious that suffered quite a bit from being overweight and unattractive in his younger years. Just read his short stories like "The pear-shaped Man" or "The Monkey Diet".

>>20594673
>Sunset found him squatting on his sofa, moaning. Every ejaculation was thinner than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the third sex scene came up he was cumming white water.

>>20594680
A lot of these were just the slang of the world and others were just sayings that characters used as their own.
The only one that actually annoyed me was the grease dripping down his chin one.
Nipples on a breastplate always amused me.

and moonboy for all i know

>>20594680
I dont remember aryan getting naked in agot

>>20594673
>GRRM is notoriously bad at writing
Stop right there retard.

--George RR Martin, A Dance With Dragons, Tyrion IV--

>"Good morrow, Hugor." Septa Lemore had emerged in her white robes, cinched at the waist with a woven belt of seven colors. Her hair flowed loose about her shoulders. "How did you sleep?"
>"Fitfully, good lady. I dreamed of you again." A waking dream. He could not sleep, so he had eased a hand between his legs and imagined the septa atop him, breasts bouncing.
>"A wicked dream, no doubt. You are a wicked man. Will you pray with me and ask forgiveness for your sins?"
>Only if we pray in the fashion of the Summer Isles. "No, but do give the Maiden a long, sweet kiss for me."
>Laughing, the septa walked to the prow of the boat. It was her custom to bathe in the river every morning.
>"Plainly, this boat was not named for you," Tyrion called as she disrobed.
>"The Mother and the Father made us in their image, Hugor. We should glory in our bodies, for they are the work of gods."
>The gods must have been drunk when they got to me.
>The dwarf watched Lemore slip into the water. The sight always made him hard. There was something wonderfully wicked about the thought of peeling the septa out of those chaste white robes and spreading her legs. Innocence despoiled, he thought ...though Lemore was not near as innocent as she appeared. She had stretch marks on her belly that could only have come from childbirth.

For clarification, Tyrion is in hiding, so he uses the fake name Hugor in these chapters.

>>20598901
Okay, and? Because you can't remember it, it didn't happen? Or what are you trying to say? Mandela Effect? The universe changed? In your timeline she never got naked? Fuck off with that shit. She got naked outside of King's Landing by the river, after emerging from the dungeons after spying on Varis. She was washing herself in the river, naked, while people walked by in the distance thinking she's a homeless kid

>>20594642
y'all just jealous. the fat old man is successful accept it.

>>20595226
oh really? everyone knows /lit/ is infested by fat bastards!

My personal favorite ASOIAF theory is that George RR Martin has grown too senile to remember the ending he wanted to write toward in the 90s and thus spends his time pitching various spin-offs to HBO.

>>20596719
It’s a permanent wound, like getting molested

>>20595246
That is probably the correct depiction