/lit/ - Literature

>>20592122
Lol her husband wrote it.

>>20592122
>...what is still considered todat the 1st science fiction novel.
Only by people who have no idea what they're talking about.

Alice in Wonderland is my favorite isekai novel :^)

>>20592122
Them Greek homos beat her to the punch by centuries.

>>20592122
IT'S ALL SO TIRESOME

>>20592122
nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga nigga

I doubt women even knew how to read in 1818.

>>20592122
arguably the first sci-fi was from a roman satirist who was shitting on travel logs

Good for her

>>20592122
yeah, you gonna cry about it?

When you don't talk about someone you're ERASING THEM!!

>>20592154
Like black women for example.

>>20592122
Frankenstein is not science fiction. It's clearly in the gothic horror genre. It makes vague mentions of science and its protagonist is a scientist, but there's no actual science in the book -- Victor discovers the secret to reviving life in three sentences and his creation of the monster isn't even described. One of the reasons that James Whale film's lab full of sparking transformers, lightning and the slab that gets raised to the sky has become the iconic method of the monster's creation is because the book has NOTHING, just a big hole where the process should be.

At the end of the day, science fiction is fiction driven by science, but also fiction that celebrates science. Wells and Verne, whose stories are actually about speculative science, where the scientific developments are, if not realistic, rooted in the authors best understanding of the science. Science fiction is fundamentally pro-science.

Frankentstein could just as easily be about an alchemist or sorcerer, science's only role in the story is to serve as a handwave, and in so much as it has anything to say about science, it is to reject the entire concept. It is a fundamentally spiritual and religious story. Definitely gothic horror, not science fiction.

>>20592122
>implying Percy and Lord Byron didn't ghostwrite it for her

>>20592143
I don’t know, I’ll concede Shelly was the original big titty goth gf, she was a super weird person

Anyone know if the Mary Shelley starring Elle Fanning is any good? Elle is a qt :3

>>20592865
Great job outing yourself as a genre fiction pleb

>>20592865
>At the end of the day, science fiction is fiction driven by science, but also fiction that celebrates science
so PKD and the guy from Leibowitz (Miller something?) are not science fiction then

>>20592122
Voltaire BTFO

>>20592865
Victor is not even a scientist. He reads occult shit and when he goes to university, one of his professors tells him the things he reads are all useless. He gives up on that occult shit, but later one gets back to it again. I don't even remember if he even graduate to be called a scientist.

>>20593258
Great job making it clear you're a vapid piece of shit who will never have anything of value to contribute to the world. Why don't you do humanity a favor and go play with cobras.

>>20593279
You're going to have to explain your reasoning.

>>20593306
Yeah, totally. I have a friend who absolutely loses his shit whenever someone calls him "Doctor Frankenstein" because he's actually a college dropout who never earned his PhD.

START WITH THE GREEKS

>>20592865
Very interesting

I thought Icarus was the first sci-fi story?
Although maybe since science and sorcery were the same thing in antiquity some golem fable should get the prize

>>20592143
Nope. I say this all the time: there is no way Percy wrote Victor as such an effeminate whiny protagonist. Dude has fucking labor pains and pregnancy symptoms when he makes the monster. He faints about as much as a woman in a soap opera.

No, if Percy had written Frankenstein, 90% of the book would have been the kickass parts in the last 4 chapters where Victor's hunting the monster in his self-destructive quest for revenge and absolution. It would have been beautiful and tragic. It was the Frankenstein we deserved, but never got.

>>20593279
Walter M. Miller. Honestly I wouldn't put A Canticle for Leibowitz in the category of genre fiction. That stuff is downright literary. I loved it.

>>20593357
Anybody have a good translation of Lucian's True Story? Been wanting to read it.

>>20592122
>Black woman tweets nonsense
Many such cases.

I DON'T GIVE A FUCK WHAT THOSE FUCKING RETARDS ON TWITTER ARE SAYING

>>20592122
I don’t mean to some long rant citing Benjamin, judaism, Golems and the implications of hegelian dialectics on whether my dick gets scruff or soft after a shower, but frankenstein isn’t sci if, besides for not really being that good of a book, scifi is about space and Aliens. Those are the most core themes and either of them has to be for it to be scifi. Scifi without space fantasy is just industrialisation.

>>20593601
t. Margaret Atwood

>>20593258
He's right. Dracula isn't science fiction either.

>>20593332
nta but a book like VALIS or FMTtPS has little to no science in it, no? it has drugs but the science part is minimal iirc.

>>20593332
>Science fiction is fundamentally pro-science.

Imagine being this retarded.

>there's no actual science in the book … his creation of the monster isn't even described

Yeah I only read real sci fi like dishwasher manuals and how it’s made documentaries I don’t care about boring stuff like the consequences of new technologies or their impact on society I just want to read 300 pages of an author (male) describing made up science experiments that don’t actually do anything in real life. This is such an unbelievably pleb take it’s like you’re appealing to the enlightenment STEMlord thing but you’re also too retarded to actually learn real physics so you’re just stuck complaining on the internet that sci fi books handwave technology that doesn’t exist instead of masturbating you with some bullshit pseudoscience to make you feel clever.

>>20592865
I think the scifi part of Frankenstein is the contemplation of what it could look like if science got advanced enough to bring a person back to life. It's not warp drives and light sabers but it considers the possible outcomes of scientific advancement. Besides, almost all instances of a writer trying to scientifically justify their made up technology is shit. Handwaving it, or making fun of it even, is much better in my opinion.

>>20593626
PKD's last few novels definitely push the boundaries of "science fiction," and probably defy that classification, but his earlier works are very clearly science fiction.

Dick is a late development in science fiction though, responding to changes in and a deepening of the genre that had been occurring since the genre was codified.

When I think of genre, especially top tier genres like "science fiction," I envision a tree with many branches. The longer the genre exists the bigger and more branches the tree gets, and those branches can stray pretty far from what defines the "trunk" of the tree.

And the "trunk" of science fiction is an adventure story whose plot is rooted in speculative science, where sciences itself makes the story possible.

To me, the ur-example of science fiction is Jules Verne's 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. It's an adventure story about preventing a global terrorist, but at the heart of the story, driving the whole plot, is this novel technology of the submarine, and Verne uses the technology to drive the story while using the story to explore the technology.

The tropes that defined the roots of science fiction, which eventually lead to the hard split between science fantasy and hard sci-fi, and gave rise to "speculative fiction" were codified by writers like Verne and Wells.

Shelly and Frankenstein don't really fit those tropes. Hers is a gothic novel, with all the trappings of a gothic novel. It's bizarre to suggest that Frankenstein is the first sci-fi novel when none of the novels that followed it and defined the genre resemble it.

You might as well say Daniel Defoe wrote the first science fiction novel with Robinson Crusoe.


>>20593684
That's a very impressive straw man you've created. If only you could animate it like Victor animated his creation, then maybe someone would give a shit.

Suffice to say, your entire rant is off the mark. You have completely and totally failed to understand me, mostly because you're a stupid, arrogant asshole. Please kill yourself.

>>20593714
>the contemplation of what it could look like if science got advanced enough to bring a person back to life
But the book pointedly does not do that. There's no consideration of the impact Victor's discovery would have on the world. He creates a man, he freaks out, the man kills everyone he loves, he drives himself to death seeking revenge, everybody dies tragically. The only impact Victor's discovery has is entirely personal, it drives his entirely personal tragedy.