/lit/ - Literature

πρῶτος

how do I learn latin?

>>20591000
read harry potter in latin and youtubers

>>20590996
based greek frogposter keeping the spirit of the general alive

>>20591000
LLPSI worked for me.

>>20590988
Threadly reminder that there is little to no difference between Classical and Ecclesiastical Latin grammar.
A dictionary is absolutely necessary, even for experienced readers of Latin

>>20590988
>Remember, all claims about Latin the author can't back up in Latin are to be disregarded.
Oldfag revisiting lit after a long break. This is a smart rule. Even Latin intermediates can sniff out fakes using poor grammar or GTranslate, and back up the grammar rules from standard textbooks.

Hello

>>20590988
>janny.jpg
heh

Hi, everyone. I'm Ethionon. I said I'd do an update when my intensive Ge'ez course finished, which was Friday. It has been rather difficult, and I don't think the intensive course has left me as knowledgeable as a regular, semester-long course would. I got burnt out in the beginning by studying Ge'ez all day everyday in the beginning because that was what was required for the 6 week class. I talked to the instructor about dropping out, and we renegotiated the workload, although the other student for the course was already slacking from the beginning. After that, Ge'ez became much more manageable, but I am still burnt out. Nevertheless, I see vast potential for the utility of this language. Since the beginning, which was made more rough by administrative issues that have been completely resolved, I have been motivating myself by thinking I will be the only person to know Ge'ez in my state, probably even in the entire history of my state, and I'm white. Another thing that kept me going is all of the unread manuscripts out there for anyone to read for free online. I wouldn't have been able to make it through this course without my knowledge of Hebrew and Aramaic (Semitic) and my time in other languages, Latin and Greek.
That ends my disjointed post. I will continue to study Ge'ez, quite possibly with the instructor as my tutor. If you have any questions about Ge'ez grammar, learning, or resources, I'd be happy to answer them.

>>20591000
Lingua latina per se illustrata, you don't need anything else. I have noticed that most of the books about learning Latin use the same way to teach you. It works

>>20591256
Good shit anon. Happy to hear back from you.
>>20591273
>you don't need anything else
If LLPSI shills would end this meme there would be no infighting in these generals. The benefit of learning Latin the traditional way is that it teaches you how to learn any other language. But if you learn Latin from LLPSI and you want to dip your toes into Greek for example, you are pretty much starting from scratch with no toolkit to help you learn the language.

>>20591089
too bad we don't discuss lipsi anymore... now it's all about, well, you'll see

What are your favorite LGBT-related poems or other texts in classical languages? I'll share one of my favorite with my own translation. I haven't been able to find any prior English translation of it, so mine may be the first.
詠少年
呉均
董生惟巧笑,子都信美目。
百萬市一言,千金買相逐。
不道參差菜,誰論窈窕淑。
願君奉繡被,來就越人宿。
In Praise of a Boy
Wu Jun
Like Dong Xian[1] you have such a lovely smile
Like Gongsun Zidu[2] you have truly beautiful eyes
For a million coins I would purchase one word from you
For a thousand [pieces of] gold I would buy your company
I will not speak of the duckweed, here long, here short[3]
Who would discuss a modest, virtuous, retiring young lady?[3]
I wish to present to you an embroidered quilt[4]
And let us share the lodging of the Yue boatman[4]
[1] Dong Xian was Emperor Ai of Han's lover; it is said that when he had fallen asleep on the emperor's sleeve, he cut off the sleeve of his expensive robe rather than wake him. Based on this anecdote male homosexuality is traditionally known as 'the passion of the cut sleeve'.
[2] Zidu was the courtesy name of Gongsun Yan, a minster in the state of Yan in the Warring States period, known both for his physical beauty and for his martial skill.
[3] These are references to Guan Ju, the first poem from the Book of Songs.
[4] This is a reference to the Song of the Yue Boatman, which is commonly interpreted as also dealing with the topic of romantic love between men.

>>20591326
So I'm learning Mandarin (simplified) do you think this will make it very difficult to learn classical chinese? Should i switch to traditional?

>>20591367
How have you mastered pronunciation?

>>20591367
If you learn the language, it's not hard to adjust between the different sets of characters; there's only a few hundred actual distinct simplifications, the rest just follow by components, e.g. 語調詩說話 -> 语调诗说话 or 賣讀續犢瀆 -> 卖读续犊渎. Supposedly it's easier to go from traditional to simplified than vice versa, but I don't think it's a terribly big deal either way; it never was for me. In any case, the important Classical texts are available printed in both character sets, though if you want to dive deep on research you'll need Traditional.

>>20591323
Is it LGBT faggotry like that next post? That appeared alot too.

>>20591402
It's a classical language-related discussion, the topic of the texts doesn't matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y88wUeIXT40

>>20591402
>>20591411
What took over Lispi faggotry?

So I'm finally going to take the plunge and start with Greek. I'm reading through the intro chapters of a few books, but I'm already getting filtered by this accent stuff. I've been permanently filtered by Latin vowel length, and now I have to worry about tones as well? I don't think this is something I can teach myself from a book.

Can I just skip this and start drilling conjugations and declensions? I'm never going to speak anyway.

>>20591556
Is it that hard to learn the basic rules?

>>20591556
it just looks hard, there is a basic rule of contonation behind it which pretty much produces all following rules
at worst go for a stress pronunciation like later Greek, but I'd still recommend learning what the accents do
http://atticgreek.org/accent/contonation1.html

>>20591402
>>20591451
I don't want to tell because I'm afraid of invoking "it"

>>20591677
Why don't you just shut up about the topic and post something about classical languages?

>>20591556
accent is very important for grammar. The first thing after the alphabet to learn are the accent rules and the contraction rules. It sounds dry but it is absolutely essential work to prevent you getting filtered while you are in the middle of acquiring the language. With Greek it is absolutely crucial that you are able to recognize the different little parts of the verbs and you will only be able to do that by knowing accent rules, contraction rules and general euphony. It will become second nature for you once you drill it enough.

>>20591703
Because I'm an old resident and now a guest and he piqued my interest politely. You can fuck off.

>>20591572
Without audio and a teacher to critique my pronunciation? Yes.

>>20591597
Is there a need to apply those rules? Or do I just need to memorize accent marks as part of the spelling of a word?

>>20591752
Nobody actually pronounces the pitch accent nowadays; we're not even entirely sure what it sounded like.

>>20591256
Based.

>>20591326
Also based.
> What are your favorite LGBT-related poems or other texts in classical languages?
Apparently Sephardi wrote some in very pure Biblical Hebrew, in Al-Andalus, which is both... surprising.
Unfortunately my Hebrew is not yet good enough to tackle them.

>>20591386
> In any case, the important Classical texts are available printed in both character sets, though if you want to dive deep on research you'll need Traditional.
I always thought that Traditional is just another way to write vernacular Chinese, and Classical/Literary Chinese is its own thing?
Or are they so close that it's hard to make a distinction?
But what did the May Fourth Movement get rid of then, exactly?

>>20591752
well "apply" depends on what you need to do, since you don't seem to care about either spelling or writing, at the very least you'll need to remember the graphical position
e,g
δήλωσαι
δηλώσαι
δηλῶσαι
are conjugations of the same verb, without the accent you'd be guessing whether it's a middle imperative aorist, active optative aorist or active infinitive aorist from context

>>20591804
>Apparently Sephardi wrote some in very pure Biblical Hebrew, in Al-Andalus, which is both... surprising.
A friend showed me one.
https://opensiddur.org/prayers/civic-calendar/international/transgender-day-of-visibility/prayer-of-kalonymus-from-sefer-even-bohan-1322/
>I always thought that Traditional is just another way to write vernacular Chinese, and Classical/Literary Chinese is its own thing?
The traditional and simplified character sets are just different character sets. You can write Classical Chinese or Mandarin (or other Sinitic languages) in either.
>But what did the May Fourth Movement get rid of then, exactly?
Writing in Classical Chinese- the language. They didn't change the character forms; they changed from writing in the language of Confucius to that of present-day Beijing. The character forms were changed some decades later by Mao, the old forms still being used in Taiwan and Hong Kong, but in neither location do people still do much writing in Classical Chinese.

>>20591834
Oh, though this one isn't from Al-Andalus- I missed that bit.

>>20591825
What I meant was, do I need to master these rules about where a stress can be, so I can look at an unaccented word and figure out where to place the accent (like scanning latin verse to identify long and short syllables), or do I just need to memorize the accent as part of the word and its different declension/conjugation patterns (like the difference between fēmina (nom) --> fēminā (abl))

If it is the latter, then I'm sure I can pick it up as I learn vocabulary and not worry too much about how it should sound.

>>20591834
Oh, so Classical is really its own thing besides Mandarin and Cantonese.
But that in turn makes me wonder about something else: I've heard that Classical Chinese today is commonly pronounced as Mandarin.
So, do I understand correctly: a Mandarin speaker in Taiwan who knows nothing about Classical Chinese could correctly sound out a Classical text (except for the characters that completely fell out of use), but not understand much of what the read syllables mean? Kind of like a Spaniard who tries to read Romanian?

>>20591989
Sorta. Depending on their level of education they could probably get a general idea of what it's about, but there would likely be some bits they didn't understand unless they'd actively studied Classical Chinese.
But yes, Classical Chinese is usually pronounced with the readings of the speaker's native language, whether that be a Chinese language or Sino-Xenic. Japanese speakers read it as kanbun.

>>20591927
well what do you do with Latin? typically one memorizes the accent at least in e.g the nominative form for nouns, then with few rules you automatically know where the accent is going to be in other forms, similarly in verbs
it's not that different in Greek, albeit the accent system is somewhat more complex and the accent can be in more places and of different qualities: like in Latin, it can't climb above the second to last syllabe, but unlike in Latin a word can potentially have its accent in all last three syllabes(n.b vowels rather than syllabes are more important in Greek), and what typically changes the position of the accent is the last vowel if the word
but I mean, memorization of basic roots/principal parts should normally happen phonetically, at least that's what I find normal, i.e how the word sounds in your head will tell you where the accent is
what do you do if you meet e.g the word "peccatum"? do you know by heart that it's peccátum because of the long ā, do you need to look a dictionary because you have memorized it with english spelling and maybe you say péccatum in your head? similar considerations apply
I mean it's your choice, I feel like you are complicating your own learning process by trying to avoid certain steps

>>20592018
Thanks for always answering Chinese question here. I assume it's just you, otherwise Classical Chinese learners are a uniquely helpful bunch.

>>20592029
>well what do you do with Latin?
Honestly, I've been ignoring accents. They're not marked in any text I've seen and it makes no difference to me for reading. It seems different for Greek since they are marked.

>what do you do if you meet e.g the word "peccatum"? do you know by heart that it's peccátum because of the long ā, do you need to look a dictionary because you have memorized it with english spelling and maybe you say péccatum in your head?

I have no idea how it is supposed to sound. Placing stress on the penult feels right, but I don't know why. I'd have to look it up in a dictionary to even know the a here is long. Then I'd have to look up the rules for placing stress. But I've had no reason to do that.

>>20592172
ok, though you mentioned scanning verse and that's kind of a big deal and reason for the importance of accents
if you are reading just for the content of it, then it's not fundamental in either Latin or Greek I guess and you could read a Caesar or Xenophon without caring much about whether you placed the accent properly or not, but if you ever decided to read Virgil it would be a bummer not to hear the music of the verses, or at worst had to go very slowly to finally perceive some rhythm

>>20592151
I'm on a Discord server about East Asian classical languages if anyone's interested, by the way.

Ἄλφρεδ Ἰάννυ

Is there any certification similar to the CEFR (levels from a1 to c2) but for classical languages?

>>20591256
This motherfucker is an inspiration to us all.

>>20592387
in Germany there is the Latinum and the Graecum. They don't really indicate any measurable level of proficiency, you just need to translate a short original text (about 180 words) from Cicero or Plato. in Germany you still need a Latinum to get a degree in most humanities, which leads to hilarious filterage of normies barely scraping by working their way through Cicero after having only taken one semester of intro grammar in a language they don't care about. I'm currently teaching my gf Latin with LLPSI to prepare her for this

>>20591425
His wife is cute, but he is an annoying Trad Cath. He only really uses Latin as a religious larp. Also he is obsessed with cowboy shit like hats and cacti. Moved from the Italian countryside to Tennessee - which is a backwater that people here leave as soon as they can afford to - unless they inherited plantation money.

>>20592219
I've read some Catulus and Ovid, and I initially made the effort to try scanning. But I found it rather tedious and I still couldn't 'hear' the meter.

I don't think I'll ever appreciate poetry.

>>20592547
what part of this post has something to do with classical languages? are you the troon?

>>20592637
He posted a channel of a guy who vlogs in Latin. I was describing his channel.

Ἄλφρεδ Ἰάννυ

>>20592533
Is German even worth learning? I heard Germans will rather speak English to you than German on 99% of the occasions.

Fuck I just learnt that via means road in chapter 6
I know it's a reddit reason for learning a language but I'm loving it
>>20593078
You're asking whether German is worth learning in a classical language general and the reason why you think it isn't worth learning is because Germans would rather speak English to you?

An exercise for /clg/
The entirety of Martial Book 10, Epigram 66
Post your translations and see how they compare with others

>>20593097
Yes

>>20593528
Who, I ask, so tough, who was that one so proud
that had you, Theopompus, made into a cook?
[I cannot for the life of me parse these two lines]
[someone in the dark kitchen sustains the shape violating something?]
Who shall hold a ready drinking cup or ice?
How do they know better than Falerna mixed by hand?
If this exit to the ministering stars remains
Jupiter already uses Ganymede as a cook

What texts have been translated in all five of the great classical languages of the world (Latin, Ancient Greek, Sanskrit, Arabic, Classical Chinese)? I only know of the Bible and Euclid's Elements.

>>20593675
Probably Aesop's Fables, some now lost Gnostic/Manichaen text, and possibly the Dao De Ching. It was definitely translated into Latin, I don't know about Greek.

I would assume anything else would be of Persian origin due to the geographical convenience(to be translated in both directions).

>>20593675
>>20593812
Damn good question anon, I'll repeat it for exposure

#Question

What texts have been translated in all five of the great classical languages of the world (Latin, Ancient Greek, Sanskrit, Arabic, Classical Chinese)? I only know of the Bible and Euclid's Elements.

>>20593941
Why is that a good question? There is enough primary literature in any classical language to last a lifetime.
Why does it matter how many other languages something has been translated into? Reddit-tier

>>20593957
Because it's interesting?

>>20593957
>having curiosity
>Reddit-tier
Midwit logic. Stick to comic books kid.

>>20591321
>>20591804
>>20592532
Thank you all for your praise. It's good to hear.

804, I'm not particularly interested in LGBT literature, although the Secret Gospel of Mark is very interesting. I would like to take a look at what you've heard to be very pure Hebrew. Do you have a link?

>>20591000
Wheelocke's was good for me

>>20594017
> 804
I think it was this I heard:
> Gabirol's diction is pure and his Hebrew is Biblical, and on this account he became the model for the Spanish school of Hebrew poets.
So it seems to apply to the entire Al-Andalus scene, even. There's an anthology of translations into English, but with the Hebrew text freely available at https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691121956/the-dream-of-the-poem

Also, if you're just looking for things to read and not specifically for poetry: I've recently come across Abraham Mapu, who wrote a novel set in biblical times, and supposedly in highly classicizing Hebrew. Long out of copyright: https://benyehuda.org/read/957

I'm still a beginner, so I can't attest to the style of Hebrew of these texts, but I would be interested to hear from someone who takes a stab.
And I'd be equally happy to learn of more examples of Biblical Hebrew outside of the Bible, particularly of secular works.

Who here /philologist/?

>>20594598
It's called "historical linguist" nowadays.

>>20594624
Two different schools of thought though. Linguists are reason retards who don’t want to move away from their logical theories and ignore historical context

I have a confession guys. I visit this thread every single day and I've never read past LLPSI chapter 2.

>>20594963
But why?

Unless you know some classical language, but then it's not much of a confession.

>>20594963
Yeah same here but I recently started last week and it's been worth it

>>20591321
>The benefit of learning Latin the traditional way is that it teaches you how to learn any other language
You've never learned a modern language you dumb monoglot.

>>20593078
Why yes, I do switch to English mid-conversation upon perceiving the slightest hint of a foreign accent in just a single word, even when I've known that person for years, to never ever speaking a German word in their presence again. How could you tell?

>>20593528
Who, I ask, was this harsh, who was the one this arrogant
that ordered you, Theopompus, to become a cook?
Someone supports this face being violated by the black hob,
someone contaminates this mane with the greasy fire!?!
Who better than you held the glasses?
By the hand of who did the mixed Wine taste better?
If by this chance, such stellar servants are kept as such,
even Jupiter must already be using Ganymede as a cook.

>>20595188
>Why yes I always say Yo no hablo English how could you tell

>>20593528
Who, I ask, was this harsh, who was the one this arrogant
that ordered you, Theopompus, to become a cook?
Someone supports this face being violated by the black hob,
someone contaminates this mane with the greasy fire!?!
Who better than you held the glasses?
By the hand of whom did the mixed Wine taste better?
If by this chance, such stellar servants are kept as such,
even Jupiter must be already using Ganymede as a cook.

>>20593528
Who, I ask, was this harsh, who was the one this arrogant
that ordered you, Theopompus, to become a cook?
Someone supports this face being violated by the black hob,
someone contaminates this mane with the greasy fire!?!
Who better than you held the glasses?
By which hand did the mixed Wines taste better?
If by this chance, such stellar servants are kept as such,
even Jupiter must already be using Ganymede as a cook.

>No bro you can't understand unless its in the original language
Which is why nearly all Christian theolgians except St Jerome were monolinguals in Greek or Latin.

>>20595461
You can't understand something unless you understand it

>>20595505
>You can't understand something unless
Its in Greek

>>20593812
Do you know where I can find the Latin translation of the Tao Te Ching?

>>20594923
Can you give some example of what you mean?

>>20595188
Honestly, if I ever go to Japan I'll probably just pretend I don't speak English so people don't insist on using me for English conversation practice.

>>20593528
who, I ask, however unfeeling, was as that prideful one,
who ordered you, Theopompus, to become a cook?
someone black (poetic?) bears to dishonor this face in the kitchen,
in dinner polluting these locks by fire?
who will hold the shots or the crystal (cup)?
where will know better the mixed Falernian by hand?
if however death itself stays the heavenly attendants,
Jupiter would now chill with Ganymede. (no idea how coco fits in)


ablativus me perterret

>>20595538
Not possible it was only printed once in 1788.

>>20595613
And no one's scanned it?

>>20595613
>>20595628
Try Google boooks then, they have a fuck ton of scanned stuff

>>20595665
Do you know what title to search under?

>>20595674
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Liber_Sinicus_Tao_te_kim_inscriptus.jpg
Try with this

Oh shit, clg digging into some real shit

Puer ita egit ut ab omnibus amaretur.

How would you translate this?

>>20595802
Very literally, "the boy was acting in such a manner that he might be loved by everyone."

Second part of the Catullus' poem we started yesterday
I found this part quite confusing so I'm posting my entire translation, feel free to suggest any correction.

Oh pontic Amastri [city] and Cytorus [mountain] full of boxwood,
the boat says that this [what he tells] was and is well know to you,
that from the oldest time
he stood on your summit,
that he wet his branches/rows in your surface,
and from there, through many wild straits,
that he transported his boss, not matter if from the left or the right
called the breeze, or if Jupiter
fell down on both feet at the same time [i. e. if He provoked a terrible storm];
and that he hasn't made any vows to the coastal gods
when he arrived from the last sea
to this clear lake.
But this was before, now
he ages in isolated retirement, and he dedicates himself to you,
twin Castor and twin of Castor.

>>20595814
>or if Jupiter
>fell down on both feet at the same time [i. e. if He provoked a terrible storm];
I just looked up "pes" in a dictionary and realized that this designates some part of the sail, so this part is totally wrong

>>20595850
> so this part is totally wrong
It's not that bad, Catullus already anthropomorphized the ship in other places (palmulas, coma), so he was well aware of the ambiguity.

I'm wondering about Amastri. It should be vocative, so why does it end in i? Short i even, according to the meter.

>>20595814
Replying for better visibility to Daily Catullus fellows.
>>20595880

>>20595880
>It's not that bad
Well, it should be something like
>or if Jupiter favorable had fell towards both [parts of the sail]
which I assume it means the wind blows perfectly from behind, opposed to the previous laeva sive dextera.
Quite the opposite of what I thought kek
>Amastri
I have no idea. The actual name is Amastris -idis, no?

>>20595814
Is there a systematic way to approach a poem like this? With prose, I can take a setence, look up unfamiliar words and at least understand the gist of it. With poetry, I can look up every word and still not understand anything.

>>20595188
Gotcha, so I will skip German and learn Arabic, since that seems to be a more useful language over there

>>20595814
Why doesn't it rhyme?

>>20595983
The Romans didn't use rhyme, their poetry was based on length. Later on some Medieval writers wrote rhyming verse.

>>20595967
At least it would be on-topic for /clg/, then.

>>20595808
Oh yeah, of course.

A translation challenge for those learning Classical Chinese, 同聲歌by 張衡
邂逅承際會,得充君後房。
情好新交接,恐慄若探湯。
不才勉自竭,賤妾職所當。
綢繆主中饋,奉禮助蒸嘗。
思為莞蒻席,在下蔽匡牀;
願為羅衾幬,在上衞風霜。
灑掃清枕蓆,鞮芬以狄香。
重户結金扃,高下華燈光。
衣解金粉御,列圖陳枕張。
素女為我師,儀態盈萬方。
眾夫所稀見,天老教軒皇。
樂莫斯夜樂,沒齒焉可忘。

>>20592533
didn't know Germany was still this based

How much harder is Roma Aeterna compared to Familia Romana?

>>20592533
i'll probly get the latinum for fun once i'm good enough

The ablative case is killing me

>>20596207
fuck u talking about 'hard'

feel like llpsi is getting easier past chapter 21
15-19 were the hardest for me

>>20596207
Chapters are longer. It throws more vocabulary and more complex grammar at you. And it brings in frequent excerpts from Virgil, Livy, Ovid and others.

I've found it slow going compared to Familia Romana, but manageable.

>>20593941
>>20593812
probably a ton of paperback fiction lol you're thinking way too hard about this.

>>20596530
t. stupid nigger who can't even think of one

>>20591256
I don't want to sound sanctimonious but hey, that's a baby. I know this is 4chan and this will seem hilariously out of place but c'mon, if you're learning Ge'ez and Hebrew/Aramaic presumably you're reading scripture or scripture-adjacent things. See past the hardened meme layer of lmao funny looking african starving baby images and remember that's a real baby that suffered and possibly died.

I've been spending nearly every hour of my free time over the last week or so learning Greek. I can now transliterate and read Greek with some fluency and natural feeling and have a lot of the grammar down. I do have however, nearly no vocabulary. Is this okay progress? I have no clue how I'm doing.

>>20596718
nice b8 m8

>>20596718
You'll be dragged and crucified for this in the thread, but you're right.

>>20596728
>week
>learning Greek
>Is this okay progress?
Yes, any time spent practicing and learning Greek is progress. Especially at this phase. If you're willing to do autistic rote exercise shit, consider switching to drilling morphology paradigms and maybe go to Dickinson College Commentaries' Greek vocabulary by word frequency list, or some similar resources, and start drilling the most common verbs' principal parts.

But if you aren't into that kind of drilling, just keep doing chapters of some textbook. Even "bad" progress is progress in the first year. Re-doing a chapter because you didn't internalise it the first time is progress, re-doing the whole book because you feel like you didn't do it "right" is progress, taking a break from chapters just to mindlessly drill (because you don't mind) for a little while, etc. Literally whatever gets you feeling confident and enjoying the language is progress. The only wrong move is stopping.

>>20596810
> you're reading scripture or scripture-adjacent things
> You'll be dragged and crucified for this
He's just partaking in a time-honored Roman tradition.

>>20596832
Thanks man, it's mostly just hard to compare myself to where somebody else could be. I'm probably going to do the drilling tactic because it's what I'm good at, that or try and pick things up a bit naturally in a mix. I want to get to a level where I can read and write more than speak so hopefully that makes it a bit easier. Then onto Latin.

>>20596925
If you're good at drilling and don't mind it you're already golden. Just find a relatively clean, no-bullshit paradigm and start soaking up morphology. Wiktionary's Latin paradigms are good enough to print out and start working with right away, but they split all their Greek paradigms up into ending types. Google a chart for the verb luo and you'll probably find some good pdfs.

If you have a decent IQ, you're young, and/or you like hard work/drilling, you can just start learning Latin and Greek side by side or at least start memorising the Latin paradigms side by side with the Greek. Depending how dedicated you are, progress can be exponential since you'll start to notice most of the patterns are the same. Just need to learn morphology, sequence of tenses, a laundry list of quirks and basics, and you can start translating quickly.

Probably overwhelming at your stage but just saying, it can be done, so the sky's the limit if autism is your superpower.

>>20596987
Also Steadman's Anabasis is really nice (in my opinion).

>>20596987
Are there any good tools online for drilling Greek paradigms?

>>20597015
Not sure about that one, sorry. But I will say doing it by hand may be worth it for the tactile memory aspect. I used to pass the agonisingly boring time in "discussion" based classes (tell me what you randomly thought about the readings you didn't do, guy who doesn't want to be here!) by writing endless Latin/Greek paradigms in my notebook, and I'd start by first drawing the empty chart and labels. Something about that really burns it into your mind forever.

My advice though, don't assume that this is the ONLY way to know these things. The truth is, when reading Greek/Latin and seeing any verb, 1/3 of knowing what it is will come from context, 1/3 from muscle memory, and 1/3 from conscious thinking. Can't really articulate what I mean here perfectly but: if you do nothing but paradigms, you will unconsciously assume that passive subjuntive second person plural pluperfects are as common as third person singular active indicatives, because you are drilling both in equal amounts. Conversely, someone who only reads the living language will have a much better fluid sense of the common forms, but will get fucked in the ass every 5-10 sentence when a weird one crops up.

So you should ideally balance live exposure to the language with being willing to memorise.

>>20597015
Yes. Just repeat them out loud. How do you think people did it for the past 500 years before they had computers?

>>20597151
>How do you think people did it for the past 500 years before they had computers?
mnemonics

>>20597045
When I started with Latin, I built myself some simple quiz tools to drill noun declensions and verb conjugations so I could mix things up and get more vocab exposure than just copying and recopying tables. I might do the same for Greek.

>>20597151
Did people 500 years ago refuse to use printed books because the ancients used hand copied codices?

>>20597190
>Did people 500 years ago refuse to use printed books because the ancients used hand copied codices?
yes, every single printed character is SOVLLESS

At the end of the day the Latin language uses words like biologia instead of some other word made from Latin parts.

>that underageb& who fell for the 'natural approach' snake oil

>>20597383
It takes 16x as long to learn something if you fail to do it correctly the first time. It's over for them.

>20597373
I see a lot of bait post like that lately. what's going on?

>>20597396
I'm wondering as well. The thread was real comfy so far, and suddenly this low quality bait starts rolling in, one after the other.

Is it just a single guy who keeps shitting up this general, and he just woke up?

>>20597414
What's the first bait post this thread? We should at least explicitly state a time zone for future threads, and alerts for clgers to ignore shitposts

>>20591000
>>20597436

>>20597441
I see, so roughly a neet waking up at 11 am in the California timezone

As new clgers come into the thread they should be made aware of this smelly kike-like creature

I don't want to stir anything but what was the consensus on LLPSI vs Wheelock

>>20597559
...Since apparently LLSPI won, what did people consider the strengths and weaknesses of each

For the record since Wheelock defenders seem to have fled we can trash talk it without derailing; I consider Wheelock's a tranny magnet. It's not even good for teaching paradigms since it arranges things so weird.

>>20597559
the consensus was something along the lines of
>do both faggot
if I remember correctly

>>20597568
The non sequiter incident made me feel like I don't have to shit on LLPSI trolls myself anymore, since they shit themselves on their own. Onus abit.

>>20597580
what non sequitor incident?

>>20597615
Adding to this, why non sequitor is bad latin?

>>20597615
In a discussion that even back then no one gave a fuck about, the opponent of the guy you replied to wrote non-sequiter instead of non-sequitur. I doubt he is still around, but the memory lives on, because this guy keeps posting every thread how he totally won that internet argument.

>>20597615
Was it sequitor? Just as bad.

>>20597641
I will keep its memory alive until the end of time. Those who know Latin, know that no one who knows Latin would ever have made that mistake. LLPSI has been defeated forever.

>>20597638
Why is "per say" bad Latin? Those who know Latin, know.

Ἄλφρεδ Ἰάννυ

Looks like I picked the absolute worst time to ask, but are there significant differences between the editions of Wheelocks? I've been using the pdf of 6th edition just because it has table of contents.

>>20597596
O cacas, hic iterum imus.

>>20597341
I've honestly thought about making my own hand copies of some favorite works.

>>20597649
>Was it sequitor? Just as bad.
I also know someone who eggcorned it as 'non secutor' which at least makes sense as Latin even if it's the wrong expression.
>Why is "per say" bad Latin? Those who know Latin, know.
Shouldn't it be pronounced "per see" by the rules of the traditional English pronunciation of Latin? The way we say it is like some kind of weird hybrid of classical and English pronunciation.

>>20597656
Wouldn't ζ or τζ be closer in sound to an English 'J'?

>>20593959
find some other thing to be interested about, jeez

>>20597661
I have the 6th edition and it's just as good. In fact all the supplements like the official workbook haven't been updated since the 6th edition.

>>20597568
>...Since apparently LLSPI won
>>20597576
>since Wheelock defenders seem to have fled

We are actually studying while the rest of you are getting filtered by chapter 2 of your preferred book.

>>20597559
The consensus of sane people is that one is a a graded reader and the other is a grammar primer, thus they are not the same thing and shouldn't be compared anyways. Use both and you'll have success. Use one and insist on not the other out of pride and you will struggle.

>>20597689
Jesus is written Ἰησοῦς so that's why is spelled Janny Ἰάννυ.
I don't remember how ζτ is pronounced, is it J?

>>20597857
>Jesus is written Ἰησοῦς so that's why is spelled Janny Ἰάννυ.
Sure, but that's a name that originally had a /j/ and is only /dʒ/ in modern English. τζ is a digraph used in modern Greek for /dz/.

>>20597883
I'm not american, so i pronounce ianny and janny the same.

>>20597924
Where are you from that you do that?

>>20597828
>We are actually studying while the rest of you are getting filtered by chapter 2 of your preferred book.
Those are both me. I just want to know what was the final say on the matter.

>>20595607
coco is predicate with Ganymede
>as a cook

>>20595912
Identify verb, subject, predicate, object, indirect object, absolutives, etc.

>>20597661
I have used 5th, 6th and 7th and once flipped through a 4th. Think my university had an older one but didn't pay attention at the time.
No appreciable difference between them. Errata cleared up here and there, slight reorganization of certain vocab and if I remember correctly a couple minor changes in chapters and grammar. Some exercises are different. All in all each is as good as the next. Seems Wheelock is into the typical textbook scam where a new edition comes out every few years so students are pressured into not buying used.

>>20598153
There is no final say, just retards arguing and spewing shit back and forth. Thanks for bringing it up again.

>>20591256
What books would you recommend? Dillmann? Lambdin?

>>20596130
No one going to attempt it?

>>20598022
I'm ESL danish, quite well speaking but my accent is a mix of everything so cannot tell you.
I say ianny but /dʒ/anitor

>>20598285
You're the only one learning [not latin], anon.

>>20598535
It's /clg/ not /lll/.

>>20598544
stands for Completely Latin General

is lingua latina per se illustrata or wheelock's latin best? how about collar and daniell first year latin?

>>20598573
Maybe Latin should have its own general if it's going to crowd out discussion about all other classical languages.

>>20598544
I miss /lll/

>>20598579
>non-sequitor

>>20598583
It was already tried... both threads died. You can't survive without each other.

>>20598583
Are you fucking retarded?
What the fuck would be the purpose of that when 99% of people on /lit/ learning a classical language are learning latin?
Do you realise that threads die if they aren't bumped?
Fucking moron, fuck you

>>20598592
you misspelled non-sequitur

>>20598597
Maybe a site as fast-moving as 4chan just isn't the place for something like this.

>>20598617
Are you going to suggest we move to Discord again?

>>20598626
I don't have a suggestion, I suppose, just starting to think about whether these threads are the best use of my time.

>>20598626
Advertise your eastern languages discord on eastern lit threads or on eastern threads on /his/. CLG is where 199 out of every 200 latin larpers get filtered, and amazingly LLL by itself somehow dies despite always being linked in the sans Latin CLGs.

>>20598740
I'm pretty sure eastern language posters from CLG already moved into your discord, and the more interactive response there is more comfy than fishing for their conversations across dozens of Latin posts on CLG

Latinsorores... vicimus

>>20598641
no 4chan thread is a good use of your time

>>20598775
I think the one that convinced me to finally work up the nerve to start HRT probably was. But other than that, you're likely right.

>>20598781
>destroying yourself over 4chan posts
you're right, these threads aren't for you digusting troon
you are a man and will always be a man
you have a man's skeleton, a man's brain, a man's dna
dont reply

>>20598771
it's more like you got stuck with a dull general while the greekists and eastern linguists moved onto greener pastures. Watch someone make a Latin CLG discord and kill CLG once and for all

Odio trannos

>>20598781
>>20598793
Why do useless trannies obsess over their identity politics everywhere they go
Literally what did your post have to do with language? Retarded acronyms?

>>20598793
Nah, I'd wanted to for a long time, I posted on /lgbt/ asking them to help me work up the nerve. I'm happier than ever now.

Why I feel like there are people wanting to kill this general? Do I need to take my meds?

>>20598811
>Literally what did your post have to do with language? Retarded acronyms?
>>20598820
>lgbt blt 123 gibberish

Yes anon retarded acronyms

>>20598839
/lgbt/ was the relevant board.

>>20598843
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH CLASSICAL LANGUAGES? KILL YOURSELF TRANNY

>>20598843
go back there. no one wants you here. you dont even want to be here, you said so yourself. just leave
you are shitting this thread up and making it worse for everyone involved, including yourself. no one benefits from your posts which are completely off topic and irrelevant to any classical language discussion. just go

My guy that's not the resident tranny, you are getting trolled

>>20598847
It's relevant to the only time a 4chan thread has definitely been a good use of my time- someone claimed none are.

>>20598809
>trannos
You can choose between several words , which actually describe the thing and not acquiesces with the delusions of manipulated mentally ill people
>eunuchus
>eviratus
>castratus
>spado

>>20598809 #
>trannos
You can choose between several words , which actually describe the thing and don't acquiesce with the delusions of manipulated mentally ill people
>eunuchus
>eviratus
>castratus
>spado
etc

>>20598809
odio trannos
odio cinaedes
amo litteras latinas
ita simplus est

>>20596003
That's generally true, but don't think that rhyme wasn't used at all. Off the top of my head, consider Catullus 1. That kind of rhymes if you look at the endings.

>>20596207
Roma Aeterna is a lot harder. Other than the first chapter, the chapters are not didactical compositions the way Familia Romana is. Most of the chapters are unadapted Latin texts from classical authors. You should approach it with different expectations than the first volume.

>>20597559
The best thing is to pick one and stick with it. I like LLPSI now, but that's not what we used when I was in school, (we started with Ecce Romani) and if you are attracted to Wheelock, then working diligently through the book will certainly not be a waste of your time. I think the biggest complaint about Wheelock is that it deemphasizes reading Latin (in favor of reading about Latin), so just be aware of that and make sure you do not neglect reading Latin, which is the primary aim of learning Latin.

>>20599067
This is correct. Assonance and alliteration were used by poets to add something to their meters

>>20599107
Ecce Romani sounds like a good in between for me. How do its stories differ from LLPSI? I'm not interested in LLPSI's pro-memorization kind of programming, I'm wondering if the stories hold up well and are interesting

>>20599107
>Most of the chapters are unadapted Latin texts from classical authors.

I think this is a little exaggerated. Yes, each chapter is based on material from a classical author and includes some quotations, but they are not unadapted texts. I think pic related is far easier than raw Virgil.

>6 hours later and they are still arguing about trannies

>>20596718
I can understand and sympathize with your position. It was just the fist thing that came up when I Googled "starving ethiopian" a month or so ago. I just did the search again, and it's still the first image. When I first saw the image, I thought he kind of looked like an alien, and now that I am looking at the search again, I see that someone thought the same thing about some different kids. Here's a bit from Sam Kinison, a former preacher, about starving African kids. Joe Rogan has talked about the bit a number of times in relation to free speech. I'm having trouble finding a clip of that, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0q4o58pKwA

>>20599279
If Virgil raw is about 15k lexicon, what's the LLPSI version's lexicon count roughly?

>>20598809
*odi
odisse is a defective verb without a present stem

>>20599384
that anon isnt even learning latin
he was just shitposting in the thread

>>20599384
I thought as much. Hence Catullus Odi et amo. But the dictionary didn't make it clear.

wow really
why didnt you latinize trannies into its obvious form while you were at it

>>20599261
Ecce Romani follows a Roman family, so it's like LLPSI Familia Romana in that regard. It's been far too long for me to give much of an opinion about how interesting the readings are or compare them to LLPSI. As far as I remember, I found them palatable enough. I'm not sure what you mean by "LLPSI's pro-memorization kind of programming."

>>20599279
Read the student's manual (Latine Disco). The difficulty ramps up during the Livy chapters, and following that, the texts are unadapted.

>>20598266
Unfortunately, I'm in no position to say, since I haven't used them. Without doxxing myself, I'll say that my class was taught via an as yet unpublished textbook written by a professor at the university where I took this course (I'm just a summer student). It still has many errors, so you would need a different book to learn independently, hence why I will refrain from sharing it here. I've also been asked to not share it. A cool thing about learning with an incomplete textbook is that I have made suggestions, one of which, if taken, will change the way Ge'ez is talked about, albeit in a very, very minor way.
Here are a few comments, however. It isn't an introductory grammar, but Tropper is excellent. I mostly used the glossary, but I took a look around, and it looks quite thorough. A problem brought up about Lambdin is that he doesn't use the fidal in his textbook, so when you get to reading real Ge'ez, you have to learn something like 120 different characters. I don't think that's such a big deal, since many things are taught and conceptualized in transliteration. It's just an objection people have. Dillmann's lexicon is online. It's similar to 2-Letter Lookup, not quite as good, but it is in Latin. I have had his textbook downloaded since starting the course, but I haven't really looked at it nor have I heard about it.
https://www.tau.ac.il/~hacohen/Lexicon/pp1.html
I might share more comprehensive guides in the future. I'm not sure yet.

>/clg/ has a best poster
>its someone niggerizing themselves with the one true nigger holy tongue
>his love and enthusiasm for learning is infectious and a positive influence on the romaboos

sometimes 4chan is so weird i dont really know what to say

>1. They were so few that they fled: Ei tam pauci fuerunt ut fugerint.
>They were so brave that they did not flee: Tam fortes fuerunt ut non fugerent.

Damn subjunctives, think the tense rules need more work.

LLPSI Read Along Chapter 14

From this chapter onwards I will be posting them once every 3 days. This pattern will continue until around chapter 21 or so.
I know the read along hasn't gone as expected and perhaps I should have chosen a different rate of posting, but I want to get to the end of the book along my current plan and any changes can be made for future read alongs (perhaps of this same book)

>>20599731
This chapter introduces the present participle form which as far as I know is the latin equivelent of -ing in english
hit, hitting
fight, fighting
see, seeing
walk, walking

Other than that there's not really anything else of note I can think of about this chapter

>>20599736

>>20599739

>>20599731
>>20599736
>>20599739
>>20599740
if you dont get real feedback by all means just stop, as it will clutter the thread and slide threads too fast

Oh wow I went back to the previous thread. I didn't know Esperanto was a potential official language for China. I googled it. Esperanto is spoken by some 100k people today, but China at its peak had 400k Esperanto speakers. That's crazy.

Not an invitation for useless Esperanto tranny to talk to me.

If the nice Classical Chinese anon posted that, thanks.

>>20599741
I would stop but I myself am personally learning alot from it so it will give me info on how difficult each chapter is.

At the very least, it serves as accountability for me to be productive with my latin studying

>>20599764
you know what it's not bad practice and based on PPH /lit/ has a couple thousand users so it's hardly falling on deaf ears

the tabula and stilus pics have me wondering: is there a fun little textbook for neo latin words of everyday life? llpsi is already pretty influential and they can ride on that for words for laptop, fedora, and lightsaber. hell luke ranieri could do it

>>20599783
>is there a fun little textbook for neo latin words of everyday life?
Yes, the Paideia Institute made an Orberg type graded reader called Living Latin. I can't find scans online, so you'd have to buy it through their site, Amazon, or Lulu.
>https://www.amazon.com/Living-Latin-Graded-Paideia-Institute/dp/1667182811/

Patrick Owens also made this picture book.
>https://www.amazon.com/First-Thousand-Words-Latin-Heather/dp/1409566153/
Or you can just use his online Neo-Latin Lexicon
>https://neolatinlexicon.org/

What's the Latin equivalent of the -logia words? Surely Latin hasn't been that Hellenecised.

>>20598641
It's unfortunate, because I enjoyed your posts about Chinese (the ones in English I could read), but there's no way I could put another language on my plate right now.
It is how it is: as a learner of a rare classical language, you'll almost always be alone in a given thread, and getting rid of Latin content won't change that.
Using the thread like Ethionon is probably the best: just drop by from time to time, announce your presence for people who want to ask something, and if you're lucky, you'll encounter someone who's learning/knows the language right now.

>>20599731
I'm reading along with you but this is the third time I read lipsi, I don't have a lot to comment/ask on the first half.
in any case, you're an absolute CHAD.

>>20599783
>neo latin words of everyday life
I search that stuff on vicipaedia

>>20599736
>Other than that there's not really anything else of note I can think of about this chapter
the different words for "both"
>uter?
which one (of those two)
>uterque
±both, one and another (used in singular)
>alter
the other (between two)

Odi eviratos et cinaedos,
volentes eunuchi,
cur libenter illi ipsi se evirant,
pueros stuprare conantur
et numquam tacent
si delusionis suis non plaudis.
Sed aliquod placet mihi de istis:
nullam oportet facere
quod libenter illi ipsi
etiam mortem sibi consciscunt.

Anyone read the pamphlet 'Italian Is Easy if You Know Latin and Use These Charts'?

>>20599872
don't think there really is exactly, but in a parallel universe where Latin was the intellectual language of reference, I guess we may have gotten there with similar abstract noun forming like -tūra and -ia or a base formed in the same way as how you get logia from the verb légō, e.g -rentia(from reor) et similia

Nuper tria ova cruda potus sum. Sumne iam sculptor corporis? Adhuc crassus et gracilis musculorum sum sed bibere ova cruda est res modo athletae agunt.

>>20600454
it isn't just a shitpost, I wanted to ask a couple things:
>gracilis musculorum
should I have used the accusative? (gracilis musculos), I know the accusative can modify nouns but I'm not sure when
>potus sum
There are verbs that can be used as normal active verbs AND as deponent verbs. Is this some sort of middle voice, do those verbs have different implications? (maybe similar to the ethic dative in romance languages? [mi sono bevuto tre uova vs. ho bevuto tre uova])

>>20600388
Greeks win again

>>20600544
if you're trying to bait latin posters you will need better baits

>>20600454
also
>res QUEM modo athleatae agunt

>>20600454
Egistine aliquid nisi potare ova? Se ad instrumentum computatorium accumbere non satis esse mihi videtur.

>>20600518
> should I have used the accusative?
No, I think genitive is fine, but I don't see accusative working.

> >potus sum
> There are verbs that can be used as normal active verbs AND as deponent verbs.
But potare isn't? Writing "ova cruda pota sunt" would have been alright, but "potus sum" is wrong, isn't it?

> maybe similar to the ethic dative in romance languages? [mi sono bevuto tre uova vs. ho bevuto tre uova]
There's ethical dative in Latin as well: https://dcc.dickinson.edu/grammar/latin/ethical-dative
But I don't think it changes anything about active/passive.

>no just because all our scientific words a greek doesn't mean the greeks have won

>>20600583
quam, res is feminine

>>20600544
Ἕλλὰς ἐαλωκυῖα ἄγριον νενικηκότα εἷλεν, καὶ τέχνας εἰσήνεγκε τῇ ἀγρίᾳ Λατίνῃ

>>20600518
to expand on: >>20600599

I know some Italian, but I'm not a native speaker, and this "mi sono bevuto tre uova" confuses me every time I see it used. Logically, it would make more sense to say "mi ho bevuto tre uvoa", no? But for some reason Italian changes the auxiliary word here, something that's not possible in Latin, because Latin doesn't use "habere" as an auxiliary.

>>20600454
>Nuper tria ova cruda potus sum
What is the function of that final sum?

>>20600628
none, doesn't make sense
if he wanted to say "drank", that'd be simply potavi/bibi
potus is either the drink itself or past passive participle of poto*, but if he wanted to say "three eggs have recently been drank" he'd need 'pota sunt'

*potatus, -a, -um is the regular participle but potus, -a, -um is a common alternative

>>20600606
right, dumb mistake
>>20600626
because are treated as as pronominal verbs: the main focus of the action is on the subject itself, it's active but it's kind of passive too
>https://accademiadellacrusca.it/it/consulenza/mangiarsi-una-pizza-fumarsi-una-sigaretta-ascoltarsi-una-canzone/1123
>>20600599
>>20600650
Right, for some reason my shit dictionary has both poto and also potor as deponent, but I couldn't find it in any other dictionary.
Anyway, I think I remember to have seen verbs with active forms used in passive as if these were deponent... did I imagine it?

>>20600544
How do we say: 'We can't stop winning'?
ἡμεῖς μή δύνασθον παύειν περιγιγνομένου;

>>20600789
> Right, for some reason my shit dictionary has both poto and also potor as deponent, but I couldn't find it in any other dictionary.
It's possible that deponent verbs were used as active in medieval times, because people no longer had a good grasp of what verbs were deponent (and they ended up as regular active verbs in the Romance languages, of course).
> Anyway, I think I remember to have seen verbs with active forms used in passive as if these were deponent... did I imagine it?
It would be weird, because then you would have no way to tell what the subject and what the object is, except for context.

>>20600825
>περιγιγνομένου
Something about this just dont look right for "winning". Learned /clg/izens are probably more apt to provide the right word.

>>20600843
Herodotus and Thucydides use it in the context of winning (a battle) or gaining superiority. The sentence itself is grammatically pretty tricky and I want to know if I missed some rule.

>>20600107
vicipaedia is trash man. inconsistent use of even basic words meaning clothing, robe, shirt. it's pretty schizo and unstandardized

>>20600166
fundatur and latin-for-redpilled

>>20600837
>It would be weird, because then you would have no way to tell what the subject and what the object is, except for context.
I actually found it
>intransitive verbs that become impersonal but still active in the third person singular passive
https://dcc.dickinson.edu/grammar/latin/impersonal-verbs

>passive verbs with reflexive meaning
a. The passive voice often has a reflexive meaning.

Ferrō accingor. I gird myself with my sword.
Turnus vertitur. Turnus turns (himself).
Induitur vestem. He puts on his (own) clothes.

Note— This use corresponds very nearly to the Greek Middle voice, and is doubtless a survival of the original meaning of the passive (§ 163, fn 2).
https://dcc.dickinson.edu/grammar/latin/verb-conjugations

>transitive verbs that become intransitive but still active in the passive
This is not a trusted source but it offer some examples, maybe someone will be able to find a better one
http://web.tiscalinet.it/latino/lez56.htm
>Clamores dissonos nemora ripercussaeque valles augebant. (Liv.) I boschi e le vallate aumentavano (accrescevano ) le grida assordanti.
Rerum principia suis progressionibus augentur. (Cic.) I primi elementi delle cose aumentano (crescono) con progressi appropriati.

>augeo - aumento (accresco)
augeor - aumento (cresco)
>minuo - diminuisco (rendo minore)
minuor - diminuisco (divento minore)
>muto - cambio (rendo diverso)
mutor - cambio (divento diverso)
>sano - guarisco (rendo sano)
sanor - guarisco (divento sano)
>uro - brucio (do alle fiamme)
uror - brucio (vado in fiamme)

>>20600789
>>https://accademiadellacrusca.it/it/consulenza/mangiarsi-una-pizza-fumarsi-una-sigaretta-ascoltarsi-una-canzone/1123
I think this part indicates that the insistence of using essere as the auxiliary instead of avere is a recent phenomenon that only came into being came long after Latin:
> Ma in passato era possibile che l’ausiliare fosse avere: ce ne offre vari esempi il teatro comico («Ho bevuto e mangiato» [...] «Anch’io m’ho reficiato» – ossia ‘mi sono ristorato’ – in Goldoni; «m’ho bevuto quasi una bottiglia di Sciampagna», in Filippo Casari, 1829).

So, yes, you can use the ethical dative like in Italian, but it's still
> Mihi uova potavi
just like in Italian when using a tense without auxiliary verb, because there it's still just
> Mi bevo le uova
right?

>>20601010
>intransitive verbs that become impersonal but still active in the third person singular passive
Oh, right. With intransitive verbs you don't have the problem I mentioned in >>20600837

this general summarised

>>20600825
complete horseshit grammatically. The simplest and most literal translation would be
>ἄδυνατόν ἐστιν ἡμῖν παύεσθαι νικῶσιν.
where νικωσιν is the dative plural part. of νικαω that agrees with ημιν.

>>20601018
>I think this part indicates that the insistence of using essere as the auxiliary instead of avere is a recent phenomenon that only came into being came long after Latin:
>era possibile che
not even them are sure about that
>Mihi uova potavi
>right?
Sincerely, I have no idea

>>20601103
>>Mihi uova potavi
>>right?
> Sincerely, I have no idea
I meant to ask about the Italian part. Is
> Mi bevo le uova
correct?

>>20597649
>Was it sequitor? Just as bad.
yes it was and no it's not as bad because that's how it is used in english

>>20601155
>I meant to ask about the Italian part. Is
>> Mi bevo le uova
>correct?
yes

Daily Catullus
I think this one is easier than the previous one.

>>20601234
translation of the last three verses

let mix/confuse them, so we won't know
and no wicked man will be able to look askance/to envy
when there will be so many kisses

Umm guys what is this?

>>20601274
Google Translate being absolute trash for Latin (even though it's less trash than it was a year ago).

>>20601234
>>20601266
> conturbabimus illa, ne sciamus
> let mix/confuse them, so we won't know
Thomson sets the comma differently as
> conturbabimus, illa ne sciamus
and claims "conturbabimus" is used in the intransitive sense of "we'll go bankrupt", so (my translation):
> we'll default, so that we don't know them (i.e., the thousands)
He mentions the alternative punctuation, but unfortunately doesn't explain why his is better.

>>20601472
Thanks fren.
On one hand I would like to have perfectly and thoroughly punctuated editions because it makes reading easier, on the other hand I also think we should disregard the use of punctuation because it wasn't used when those were wrote.
A middle ground would probably be the most sensible option but for some reason (I'm probably kind of retarded) I'm unable to accept it kek
aut caesar aut nihil

>lingua cringetina still exists
Gay world

>>20599761
I regret to inform you we're the same person.

>>20600166
>>>/pol/

>>20601595
>>>/lgbt/

>>20601582
Wait, you're saying you're the Classical Chinese poster? The one who talked about the eastern language Discord?

So it's true what they say about Discord, huh?

>>20601636
Eh, not really. Doesn't seem to be more than you'd expect by demographics, though they're more clustered in some spaces than others.

>>20601234
not so bad
only thing i really have trouble with is the "sciat" in the last line i'm not really sure how it could be translated

>>20601673
maybe
>when he will realize how much are the kisses

>>20601685
yeah now it clicked thank you

>>20601673
It's just "know"?
> tantum sciat esse
He knows how many there are.

>>20601234
If someone who follows the daily Catullus wants to have a professional translation of the poems to confirm his understanding, I'd recommend Lee. The newer translation of Green is nice, but he tries to make the English versions into poems that can stand in their own right, and that's not so helpful when you're trying to find out what noun a specific adjective of the poem modifies. Lee sticks really close to the Latin.

>>20601696
>Lee sticks really close to the Latin.
Thanks I will look into it

or for no one to gaze upon us with an evil eye, should he realize how many we've shared

>>20601234
Let us live, my Lesbia, and let us love,
And let us value the rumors of harsh old men for one ass (coin?)
Suns can set and return:
For us, a brief light rises
An eternal night must be slept
Give me a thousand kisses, then a hundred
then another thousand, then another hundred
then, when we have kissed so many thousands
we will confuse them, so that we will not know
and so no evil one can look with malice (at us)
since he knows how many kisses there are

Another one I could get through because I've seen it before. But the end is still tricky.

>>20601921
>For us, a brief light rises
D'oh, occidit, is still setting, not rising.

For us, when once the brief light sets, then nox dormienda est.

I am trans and hate Latin with a passion. If you learn Latin, you are transphobic.

>>20602012
Thanks for the compliment

>>20601921
>But the end is still tricky
indeed

Composition exercise. Continue the story
>Iulia: Mamma, noli me solam in cubiculo relinquere, obscuritatem metuo!
>Aemilia: Noli timere, Iuliola, eunuchus tecum erit. Nunc dormi.
>Iulia: Sed etiam eunuchum metuo!
>Aemilia:

>>20602012
>>20602114
While this is an obvious bait and not the tranny, this raises a good thought. I'm all for Latin being revived as an elite and clerical language since the previous elite language, French, has been poisoned with too many Nafris. Just imagine a Latin language image board where Google translate Latin could easily be identified and banned. It would be a haven for anonymity since online Latin groups are stuffy and pol-lite like Mensa.

>>20602342
>At quam ob rem formid- *ACK*
>mehercle, quisnam hicce clamor?

>>20602378
kek

>>20602365
A Latin only rule would need to be strictly enforced. Otherwise you know what would happen.

>>20602411
nta but what would happen?

>>20602365
Some anonymous place with a Latin-only rule would be nice, but if it already starts out as a tradcath echo chamber, it's dead in the water.

>>20602519
>tradcath echo chamber
sounds based to me

>>20602540
I can't tell whether this post is making fun of tradcaths by echoing
> Only converted because he thinks trad catholicism is "based"
or whether you're really this devoid of self-awareness.

You do you.

>>20602365
Latin is reddit: the classical language
It's painfully dull, sounds awful, and nothing worth reading has ever been written in it
But an Attic Greek forum on the other hand...

>>20602631
Koine Greek has better literature tho

>>20602342
>Aemilia: Noli timere! Eunuchi testes non habent, ergo mansueti sunt.
>Iulia: Sed illi foedi sunt et foetent! Mihi non placent!
>Aemilia: Tace puella improba! Quod dicis nefandum est!
Aemilia furens abit. Iulia plorat. Eunuchus perfide ridet...

>>20602631
>Latin is reddit
wtf I love reddit now

Amazing how inept that Greek troll is. Every attempt at riling up people they clown on him, if they react at all.

Proud of you, /clg/

>>20602780
>that Greek troll
I bet he doesn't know a word of Greek

>>20602809
If that's him, he tried (and failed) at >>20600825

>>20602628
>*-ACK*

>>20602844
Wrong.

What's more difficult to learn, the Hebrew of the Hebrew parts of Masoretic text or the Arabic of the Quran?

Which edition of Allen & Greenough won't fall apart on me in a year? Most of them look like cheap print-on-demand shit.

>>20602974
Arab is harder than Hebrew by pretty much every metric.

>>20603121
Arabic*

>>20603121
Why do you say that?

>>20603143
It’s… everything. Quranic Arabic grammar is more complicated, the range of vocabulary greater (I think), even the writing system is harder.

And that’s not even touching on meta-reasons like familiarity with the text in the West.

>>20603193
What are the main complications in grammar?

>>20603210
Things like
> Arabic has a number of very unusual agreement rules. My absolute favorite is that all non-human plurals are grammatically feminine singular
Also fucking broken plurals.

Hebrew is not so bad, it’s just foreign to an IE speaker (but so is Arabic).

>>20603004
Get a hardcover, used ones will work fine

Wtf?
Luke Ranieri says you should read Wheelock after Familia Romana

deus meus... I finally finished LLPSI
I'm lost from where to go now. I didn't think I'd make it to the end, but I did.. I feel slightly sad, but excited for the future.

>>20603986
How long did each book take you?

>>20603986
>where to go now
read Latin

>>20604029
the earlier books went super quick. less than a week around the middle of the book.
after the subjunctive was introduced I was spending maybe a week on each book, but there was 1 or 2 days in the week I wasn't studying, so I probably could of done it a lot faster otherwise.
>>20604038
what is a good level to read after LLPSI? Caesar?

>CAPTHA: P00RS

>>20604051
Damn, I've already spent a week on Familia Romana and I'm only 5 chapters in
How did you read it so fast?

>>20604051
Read whatever you want. Caesar is fairly straightforward. Why did you start reading Latin in the first place? go for what you have always wanted to read

>>20604059
I would study for 2-3 hours a day at the uni library. I almost never studied at home. For me personally, the environment is what's important for studying. I was able to retain more and study for much longer periods of time. I think I'm just autismo in that regard tho.
I also found a great way to memorize vocab which helped tons. I'll find the link to the method.
>>20604064
>Why did you start reading Latin in the first place?
Good question. I think so I could get a solid foundation in language learning. I was planning to move onto another language once I got a grasp of Latin but I'm not sure when I should be doing that. Maybe now's the time. I tried to go about learning Ancient Greek and Latin at the same time but struggled to balance between the two. So maybe that's what I'll put more of my focus into.
Either AG or something like French. But I feel like if I learn French now I'll never end up learning AG.

>>20604059
>>20604104
>https://medium.com/in-medias-res/the-method-part-1-34723f344aaf
This is the method I used to memorize vocab efficiently. It works wonders, and is immensely satisfying reaching 8 pages and tearing the first one out.

>>20604104
You are just starting with Latin. Not sure what you consider 'get a grasp of'. Give up now and you will lose it.
Get a primary text, something you want to read. Don't worry about difficulty, it will all be difficult at first. Find something you are interested in and read it. Doesn't have to be a ton at a time, gradually you will be able to handle more and more.
At the same time start Greek. Now is a very good time considering you just finished your first textbook of Latin. Split your time between studying Greek and reading authentic Latin. In a year or so when you have the fundamentals of Greek down you will be reading Latin much more fluently and be able to start authentic Greek texts. Then start learning French. Staggering language learning in this fashion works well and keeps confusion to a minimum. It goes much more smoothly when learning the basics of one and knowing another at an intermediate level than learning both from the basics at the same time.

>>20604111
I did this in college but never tore any pages out. The general method is great for building vocabulary and identifying weak points.

>>20604051
Well how did you find reading Caesar in LLPSI? If you didn't find him that difficult perhaps start there? He is the classic first author after all.

New Thread: >>20604162
New Thread: >>20604162
New Thread: >>20604162
New Thread: >>20604162

>>20604051
There is an LLPSI Caesar reader. Try that and the other supplements targeted at that level. Nutting's First Latin Reader could also be used as a preperatory reader for Caesar.