/lit/ - Literature

>>20590401

ah, good, another mid-wit, just like me. glad you’re here brother

>>20590401
Based beyond belief.

heh

In the 1600s most mid-wits couldn't read. In the 1600s a significant portion of the people who could read and write at all, were well educated top-wits who were also fluent in multiple classical languages and had a decent understanding of classical philosophy.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>20590499
well by 1800 they could

>>20590401
>No shit, the majority of a medium panders to the mid-wit majority.
You believe this because the democratic ethos is thoroughly ingrained into your being thanks to late stage Capitalism.
>Modern doesn't mean worse.
That's where you're wrong.

>>20590664
>>Modern doesn't mean worse.
>That's where you're wrong.
In 50 years you'll be bitching that books aren't as good as they were in the 2000s, and you fucking know it.

Philip Roth thought it was right.

Looking around, it sure seems right. No one reads. Fewer write. Fewer still write anything good. Fewer than that write anything good and manage to get it published.

>>20590690
I don’t think i could name 5 good books from the 2000s and 2000 was over 20 years ago already so I don’t think I should assume I’ll suddenly be able to in 50 years.

>>20590690
I don't read books from the 2000s, though? Why are you creating false dichotomies?

>>20590499
So there's more shit to wade through. It doesn't mean there are less quality works.

>>20590698
>>20590702
Once enough time has passed that all the trash has vanished into obscurity, people will focus on the good books that managed to stay relevant. Then you'll have fifteen fucking threads a day bitching about how there hasn't been a good book since 1999, or 2005. That's just how it works.

A good book cannot exist because life is so much longer than books, I read 3 great books 8 years ago and I hardly remember them at all, they provide me no good right now, I may as well have not have read them, am I suppose to reflect and reflect and day dream about the characters and actions?

Am I just supposed to live in a fantasy world thinking about these books, what can a book really do, how good can a book really be. What an I gain and benefit from reading a great book?

I have read great books, I have read shit books, I forget them both equally soon after, what's the point?

I even wrote a great book, one of the great novels of history, I wrote, but who cares, people can read it, and then what, like it or not like it? Not like it or really not like it?

Then watch tv and movies and read something else?

>>20590760
Are there some diamonds in the rough here and there? Sure, maybe. Probably not but maybe. From my perspective it’s all trash but I admit there could be some gems. The point is that regardless they sure seem few and far between. The culture is fundamentally different, poisonous even. The stuff being written today pales to previous generations and I really just don’t even see how anyone can debate this. You can count on one hand the people born in the late 20th century that have written anything good from being a few generations removed, but you can come up with long lists from before the wars. Shit just sucks now and it seems totally obvious to me.

>>20590401
Post med shelf, trooneyfag

>>20591032
Kek apparently all discourse on modern lit can now be attributed to Trooneyfag.

>>20591072
Possibly, but the troon nearly made this exact same post the other day in the thread where hey got BTFO and had to keep spamming the fat pig from red scare

>>20591083
You're talking to him, retard; I didn't make this post, nor did I make the other one. Take your meds and stop obsessing over me, please.

>>20591094
>You're talking to him, retard

>>20590401
I think it's worth considering that the publishing industry is very different compared to the 90s and before, and that has had an unprecedented effect on the kinds of books published, which may be affecting quality

>>20591094
>him

>>20591122
Like I said before, that just means that there's more shit to wade through. It doesn't mean that there are less good books coming out.

>>20590401
People like you are always trying to defend literature is the same it has always been, but, then, why don't you ever post these brilliant works you so avidly try to defend?
Post recent books, yes, plural, that are as brilliant as the classics you want to compare them with. It's all that takes to convince, with no chance of refutation, everyone that you are right.
I can't help, but believe, due to the permanent absence of actual citations, that you are all just shitposting or trying to defend bad books you are actually afraid of even mentioning as good.

>>20591447
Pynchon and McCarthy get posted quite often. And if you want to believe she is a good writer, Sally Rooney also gets posted often.

>>20590997
Two important things:
You were filtered. It may be hard to accept it, but you were. You literally got it all wrong. You proved to be unable to analyze and associate information, which are the most basic processes you must go through when acquiring information.

You do not know how to retain information. I can't really blame you that much for this, since I used to suffer from this. Advices: Anki; writing your thoughts, analysis and important passages; and, finally, discussing the information you acquired with others.

>>20590401
List all the books you’ve read that have been published in the last 10 years you’d defend as being equal to the classics

>>20591489
It’s been 13 years since inherent vice was published, 16 years since the road was

>>20591489
I must express that I expected recent authors, not two 80+ years old men from another century. They are both great, that is certain.

>>20591447
>>20591500
It's a hopeless endeavour and you know it, since any recommendations are always waved away after a randomly plucked sample paragraph gets posted, or the poster is accused of being a shill. People here simply aren't curious.

Asking for "brilliant works" that are "equal to the classics" is going about it all wrong, btw. You view art like a competition, a checklist. You're not readers, you're Pokémon collectors. You have no interest in literature.

>>20591544
I’m fishing for recs, give me some

>>20591544
You’re dodging the question because you can’t answer. All you have to do is post a book, any book that’s recent and defend it as proof that literature hasn’t declined. That’s just what it takes to argue your point in a way that isn’t talking out your ass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91gT68xeDMM

Manga replaced books

>>20591521
>>20591540
I gave you two chuds examples and now you're moving the goalposts. Do you think in the 18th century authors were churning out classics annually? I don't think so. Quit being so entitled and enjoy what there is- there are plenty of modern books to read and I am certain there will be plenty more in the future.

>>20591601
I was hoping you were serious. Have fun with the autists that can’t tell this is bait but I’m leaving

>>20591618
Btfo'd out the thread AGAIN. I can't keep getting away with it!

>>20591577
it's pointless. any book I offer you'll find a reason to dismiss. you're not looking for good books, you're looking for reasons to keep thinking you're right.

I can give you books that I think are good, and books that I think will stick around, but what does it matter?

>>20591521
>13 years
>not contemporary
you're just being a belligerent idiot

>>20591601
Considering the explosion in population, I'd expect many more great works, especially when compared to the 18th and 19th centuries. But that's not what we see; even going far enough back to "recognize" great works, say seventy or eighty years, the field we see is fairly impoverished.

If we consider what's happened to mankind in the interim, especially those parts that used to churn out works apparently much more consistently of much greater scope, variation, and profundity than what we see today, we might begin to make sense of it. People do not live the way they did then, and to make an OP like yours and deny out-of-hand that these changes might have strong implications for the quality of art produced and instead opt for a platitude as insipid as "Times change, languages change, art changes. It's always been that way" is as laughable as it is stupid.

>>20590401
Poetry is dead and so literature.

>>20591600
I think so too sometimes. It seems more popular but still fairly niche. It sells less than movies, video games, even anime. I think video games are the big medium today.

>>20591700
Not to be an asshole but the OP isn’t honest, he’s baiting because he’s lonely or bored and is saying stupid shit to get engagement. You aren’t going to accomplish anything by posting in this thread

>>20591700
>Considering the explosion in population, I'd expect many more great works
quality =/= quantity, the Persian empire was much more populated than the Greek world, who remembers the Persian art?

>>20591700
>Considering the explosion in population, I'd expect many more great works
why?

>>20591738
>"literature is dead" is the prevailing attitude on the literature board
>anyone who goes against it is baiting
ur a faggot

>>20591745
You are literally admiting that art is worse in our current time. You are comparing modernity with an empire that left no contribution to art. I hope you see the failure in your reasoning; you literally backed up the previous poster's claim while trying to deny it.

>>20591747
Because there are more works being done. Looking at it through are probabilistic perspective, if, for example, one percent of all works tend to be good, by increasing the quantity of works being done, the absolute number of good books increase; even though it relatively, i.e. the percentage of good boks, remain the same.
Didn't you study statistics in school? Why are posters here so uneducated?

>>20591796
I am phoneposting; here is the correction for some typos:
through a*
remains*

>>20591796
Anon, there are many factors more than population when it comes to producing good literature. How do you explain the contributions Ireland? Such a small country has produced many great writers.

>>20591801
lol

>>20591796
there are a lot of reasons why it isn't an even curve- if you're as smart as you think you are, then don't act dense. The point is that the number of good books hasn't decreased- the point is that good books aren't going to be one to one with "good books" /lit/ autists obsess over. There's never going to be another Odyssey because people don't write like that anymore. There's never going to be another Don Quixote because people don't write like that anymore. Anyone trying to argue that literature is dead just won't except modern works because they use different words to write about different things. You think Tim Curran can't go toe to toe with HP Lovecraft? You think Palahniuk can't go toe to toe with Bukowski? Or Ryu Murakami can't hold with JD Salinger? /lit/ is just full of pissbabies that insist that Western Canon insists upon itself, and that they're these untouchable works that need to be imitated at all costs, or the result is worthless. It's ridiculous, and I'm sick of fucking hearing it.

I like Cormac but his works suck in comparison to many 18th and 19th century books.

The problem isn’t the era - plenty of insightful people are writing. The problem is the medium is exhausted.

All the good plots have been written. Most modern books are boring restatements of what has been done better before.

>>20591492
No you are right, a great book can be very enjoyable, just don't tell me there is any difference or benefit in reading don quixote over harry potter, or reading Shakespeare over watching real house wives, the latter likely more intellectually, emotionally, spiritually beneficial for fitting in with society and getting along in the world.

They didn't have tv back then so they wrote long winded books to distract. Much better distractions exist today, and the world is so much better you don't even need distractions

>>20591645
>you're not looking for good books
Therein the problem lays; whos and hows to define: good

>>20591933
It's the problem with all art, but there's a thread of objectivity behind everything. If it's really good, anyone with sense can recognize the talent and quality, even if they don't like it on a personal level. It's always going to be muddled, but anyone serious about what they're consuming can tell the difference between a 3/5 book and a 5/5 book.

>>20591861
>The point is that the number of good books hasn't decreased
They have, both in absolute numbers and in proportion to numbers produced.
>the point is that good books aren't going to be one to one with "good books" /lit/ autists obsess over.
This is besides the point. Contrary to popular belief, /lit/ does not only like the Canon because they are contrarian. What you're advocating is the idea that the Canon's position is arbitrary. It's not. You're retarded. You're the one stating that the Canon insists upon itself, and nobody here is arguing that a work must imitate one from the Canon or be worthless. The opposite is absolutely held among retards though, that the work must not imitate the Canon or else be the product of white privilege or what have you, and that's as retarded as you are.

>>20591996
yeah, come back once /lit/ starts recommending more than the same 12 books on repeat, pissbaby.

>>20591978
There's technique, vocabulary, plot, characterization, twists and turns, knowledge, wisdom, language use,

Libraries and libraries and bookstores are full and full of workable useable competent books. But really what sets a good or great one apart?

Again it is the challenge in all art, how does the exceptional individual stand out from the rule of the competent pack. How does above average show and prove itself to be above average, shouldn't be so hard if it's true.

Then there is, what if the average consumer is average and likes average art? The average person does not like above average good books.

The elite person likes above average things.

But a 3rd unbiased observer, how might they determine the value and worth of the average book compared to the great book.

I'm geussing it has to do with rarity. The average, the common, the apparently easier, simpler, the repetitive, the trite, the mundane. One notices the tricks, one sees the scope of the mind of the maker, it's called hack. It's the easy natural unprovoked route. Commonality, easiest to reach fruit.

Let me guess,the story has characters at settings and actions happen to move the ot forward, yawn, heard that one a million times before.

Also someone mentioned manga, probably the most relavant, pertinent, prescient literature these days

>>20591916
A book is not just an entertaining plot - of course, some are made that way; it's an analysis on politics, economics, phylosophy, human nature, etc. The author will pass whatever ideas he wants to through it. This is the difference between Dom Quixote or Shakespeare and Harry Potter or Real house wives.

They didn't have TV at that time and thankfully we have today. There are many great movies and series, but there also are shallow works that don't deserve anyone's time.

As I said, you don't see to process the information before you at all, and, then, just pretend there isn't any.

>>20592116
>Let me guess,the story has characters at settings and actions happen to move the ot forward, yawn, heard that one a million times before.
that is every story ever, good or bad

>>20592175
But what good will reading about analysis on politics, economics, philosophy, human nature; trust me a little bit, I know about those topics, I have to read more about them? What I'll learning about politics and economics and philosophy do me?

This is my novel I've been working on tell me what you guys think


Frinchietta Drenktz cartwheeled into the hall and collapsed into a heap at the feet of her boss. She was 5 minutes late for work. She got up crawling and poured her coffee on the floor. "Frinchi!!!" Her boss hollered.

She sat in the coffee and started slapping the marble floor "fuck it all fuck it all!" She cried out hysterically.

Her coworkers began to peer their heads from their offices and cubicles.

Frinchietta took all her clothing off and began running around the office screaming.

Then she woke up. Her alarm clock blaring in her ear, it was all a bad dream, but wait no it wasn't, she wakes up, naked on the carpeting of an office floor, she had passed out and fainted.

Frinchi took an Uber into town and started looking on linkdn for new employment opportunities. She wondered why this kept happening to her.

She tapped the Uber driver in the back of the head.

"Excuse me sir, pardon me, but do you mind if I fart in your car?"

She got home to her apartment eventually, and entered her foyer. "Alexa put on TMZ, thanks"

She knocked on her roomate Gus' door. "Gus, what's for dinner tonight?"

No answer. She was either going to eat tuna fish, yogurt, mixed nuts, or treat herself to a meal out on the town, but first she needed to find a date.

She changed her 'about me' on tinder from 'just a gal who likes suckin beer and chuggin dick and I'm all out of bubble gum' to 'buy me at least 3 tacos tonight and I'll let you lick my gooch"

She hopped in the shower and when she got out scrolled through her candidates for dates. When her eye stumbled upon a, one, Ryan Dillhoffer, a chance encounter, vis the digital fates, which would change both their lives dramatically, for good(?).

She put on her hot pink latex miniskirt, her favorite yellow ugh boots, her ex boyfriend Samuels flannel (we'll get into him later don't you worry, or maybe he even makes a return dramatic apperence who knows) over a lacy lingerie bra, and capped it off with a feathered fedora.

When she finally heard the honks outside from Ryan, she turned off her Xbox, and skipped downstairs to meet her prince charming.

He was driving a bright red honda gas electric hybrid, blasting 90s r and b hits.
Frinchi opened the door and seductively slid in.

"Hewoo fankk yooo floor taking me ta dinner dawdddyyyu"

She said in a slow stuttering voice before cracking up saying just kidding. "do you mind if I put on music I like recently? There's this dj I really loik that mixes indian sitar music and dubstep like techno, here listen"

Ryan was a good guy blasted the tunes and drove on into town. "So you tryin to have kids sometime soon?" He leaned over and asked her at the red light

"Ummm.. Excuse me.."
"ahhh.. Sorry sorry was tryna be a funny pic up line my bad.. was gonna be like cause I can cum really quick and give you kids right now if you want ahah!"

"Hahaha that's hilarious Ryan what the fuck

>>20592585

>>20592433
Not learning politics and economics will allow your rulers to do as they please while you are fucked and doesn't even know what is up.
Not practicing philosophy will allow yourself be an ignorant in everything in life. Philosophy is questioning, not practicing it is accepting appearances.
I tried to make it as clear and pratical as possible to someone like you.

I appreciate it.

>>20592761
>Not learning politics and economics will allow your rulers to do as they please while you are fucked and doesn't even know what is up.

So how's that going for all the readers? Are they just saving themselves? Or are they stopping the rulers for all of us?

>>20592139
I don’t know. I really love manga personally but I’m not convinced of this.

>>20591874
You really think there are insightful people out there?

It’s hard for me to even imagine a book I can self insert into or literally me these days.

>>20592955
>I really love manga personally but I’m not convinced of this
Well the sci Fi futuristic philosophically minded stuff...?

>>20590401
Is literature dead?