/lit/ - Literature

>>20573285
>>>/his/

>>20573285
>pass user
go back to /vip/

this is the (on again off again) thread to post questions about everything biblical: translations, text, NT, OT, and bible adjacent literature. please attempt to keep violent denominational squabbling to a minimum to avoid this thread getting extremely brutal and lead to bans as usual.

>>20573289
the bible is literature.

>>20573289
The Bible is mythology. Other myths like Homer are perfectly allowable.
But don’t let the schizophrenics turn it into a proselytizing opportunity

>>20573296
The threads really never got banned until Jews and Muslims began quite literally spamming them

>>20573384
> The Bible is mythology
It all literally happened.

>>20573387
Actually I'm the same OP who revived the original bible thread from about ~5 months ago. The first 5 or so were very good, lots of educated catholic and orthodox posters, we discussed bible text stuff in depth. Then I think one of the threads was linked on /pol/ and suddenly there was an influx of really low quality posts. It seems the threads have naturally petered out again so hopefully we'll have some better content this time around. The by the time the jewish and muslim spammer showed up the threads were already long dead from kjv extremism stuff and the like.

>>20573289
threads don't last there , they get spammed to death by trolls like you

bible is literature anyway tranny

>>20573405
>bible threads only tolerated when they're full of idolaters who hate the truth
Not even surprised

>>20573396
Read Thomas Paine, Age of Reason.

>>20573384
>>20573396
>>20573430
read about the Four Senses of scripture.

>>20573450
N O .

>>20573504
how old are you?

>>20573511
I am as ageless as stardust.

>>20573299
Barely

What book of the Bible have you been reading recently anons? post a verse

Bought a used bible at a thrift shop recently
I think I'm kind of getting the urge to collect Bibles now
I'm not even Christian although I do believe in God, it's just that I love Bibles
Looking to get my first leather NRSV bible, any suggestions?
Are any of them decent quality?

>>20575034
Btw any NRSV that don't have shitty paper that crinkles?

>>20573285
Confused him with John Knox for a second who founded the church my mother's line came from

>>20573289
PLEASE jannies have mercy
it makes no sense to move religious literature to /his/
people who are here, are more likely to have read something and formed their own opinion on the topic, making threads here way more interesting

>>20573450
The events of the Bible all literally happened but I’m not opposed to allegorical and mystic interpretations of the events too

Roe v. Wade has been overturned. Make sure to prayer for America and to thank God that the first step towards completely outlawing the murder of the unborn has been achieved.

>>20575432
Thank God for five good Catholic justices and one good Episcopalian one.

>men have free will
>therefore children get cancer
is this really the best you can do?

>>20575611
There still needs to be some sort of biological pressures.
All of which inevitably involve suffering.

>>20575611
The state of the world is ultimately a result of the free will turning away from God, not that cancer comes directly from free will decisions here and now

>>20573285
Ooh, that's a clean dust jacket. I've got the same Knox NT hardcover, but it's less pristine and has some coffee stains on the jacket from the previous owner(s), but the insides are clean. Mine actually has an interesting "defect" where they sewed in an additional signature, so I've got two copies of everything from the Petrine epistles to the beginning of the Apocolypse. Someone in an earlier thread pointed this out, but my copy's additional material likely means there is (or at least was) a copy of the Knox NT floating around missing those books.

>>20575425
lol

Anyone know of a study bible that gives historical context for each book, as well as the original language used?

>>20573413
This, they talk far more about what "Church Fathers" thought than what Scripture says. They worship their own institutions.
>>20573679
I have been deep diving into Revelation for over a week and am still in the first 3 chapters. One that really hits deep and keeps coming to my attention is https://biblehub.com/revelation/3-2.htm

>>20575739
I only mean a note telling the reader what language each book was written in, not the full original text.

>>20575314
>it makes no sense to move religious literature to /his/
If you want to discuss history, religion, or the humanities, go to >>>/his/.

>>20573285
>reading the Bible in English
ἐλπίζω ἵνα μή ποιῆτε

>>20575755
/his/ rule 2 is literally "Discussions about books, poetry, and other forms of literature should be posted on /lit/."

>>20575636
>>20575657
I really tried but I don't buy it. God is disproven by a single instance of undeserved suffering, and you don't have to look far to find one.

>>20575775
You are not thinking rationally. God does not cease to exist because cancer is possible. The world doesn’t conform to what you want it to be. The world is fallen and is subjected to futility and bondage so long as it remains fallen. God never promised you physical comfort and pleasure, but calls you to spiritual goods that never fade away if you obtain them. Everything that happens in this world should draw you to God rather than conclude that he does not exist, because even things like cancer are things that we as humans can strive to overcome, and work together over, etc.

>>20575739
>>20575746
Well, the OT was all written in Hebrew with some Aramaic, and the NT was all written in Greek with a few Aramaic words here and there (usually when quoting Jesus). It's pretty much as simple as that, as far as language goes, other than the "Apocrypha", which was also written in Greek for the most part. Most study Bibles will provide historical context info on each book, generally with differing minor details. At any rate, I more advise getting a Holy Bible and using commentaries rather than study Bibles. You can use your one Holy Bible with any commentary. The Bible Knowledge Commentary and Bible Background Commentary are pretty good ones that I know of. There are some with one or two volumes, and some with many volumes.

Today is a wonderful day. Praise God.

>>20573294
This, imagine giving money to this Satanic website and reading the Catholic Message "bible".
>>20573405
>revived
There was no "revive", there have been daily Bible threads continually for over a year.

Ecclesiastes 2:22-25
Ecclesiastes 3:12-13
Ecclesiastes 5:18-20
Ecclesiastes 8:15
Ecclesiastes 11:9-10

>>20575739
Robert Alter Hebrew Bible
Any bible + The New Testament by Robert Ehrman

>>20573405
>discussing *the* Holy Bible in Bible threads is extremism

>>20577618
Solomon

It is the feast day of the Nativity of St. John the Baptist, the one whom God said would turn the hearts of fathers towards their children, and children’s hearts to their fathers, and who leapt in the womb with joy for Christ, and himself was born immediately prior to the massacre of the innocents by Herod. How fitting that Roe is overturned today.

Relevant readings:
>Malachi 4:5-6
>Luke 1:39-45
>Matthew 2:16-18

Our King James, which came down from Heaven,
Hallowed be thy fame,
Thy Version come,
Thy Idol be done, of Earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our Johannine Comma,
And forgive us our mistranslations as we forgive those who mistranslate against us.
And lead us not into Communion,
But deliver us from Rome,
For thine is Power, and the Kingdom, and the James, forever and ever,
Ay-men.

>>20573540
b&

>>20578455
lol
>>20577923
>>20576801
>>20575432
>>20575484
It is a very happy yet strange day for the Church in America - 50 years of prayer and work and activism, but in some ways this is only the beginning. The question is what now? The overturning of Row is the first (and necessary) step of the total life ethic
>>20577318
>For everything there is a season and a time for every matter under heaven:
>a time to be born and a time to die;
>a time to plant and a time to pluck up what is planted;
>a time to kill and a time to heal;
>a time to break down and a time to build up;
>a time to weep and a time to laugh;
>a time to mourn and a time to dance;
>a time to throw away stones and a time to gather stones together;
>a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing;
>a time to seek and a time to lose;
>a time to keep and a time to throw away;
>a time to tear and a time to sew;
>a time to keep silent and a time to speak;
>a time to love and a time to hate;
>a time for war and a time for peace.
>>20575775
>undeserved suffering
God didn't spare his own son from suffering - there must be a sacramental, redemptive meaning in pain after the Resurrection. Something to consider
>>20575676
Interesting. I almost bought this set in the OP (2 OT, 1 NT) but it was going for 250 on ebay and that was 2-3 years ago, probably much more now. If you can find the Knox harcover student edition with full footnotes it's worth a look
>>20575425
>The events of the Bible all literally happened
no. the bible is many books in many styles of literature. is song of songs a history? of course not. the senses of scripture exist as a guide for a reason
>>20575034
wait for leather editions of the NRSVue to be released (should be happening very soon)

NRSVue is now fully on BibleGateway for anyone who cares to do comparisons or use it

>>20577587
>Ehrman
not sounding good, anon.

>>20578750
>If you can find the Knox harcover student edition with full footnotes it's worth a look
Is there any difference between the student edition and the regular full hardcover? Because I also have the full hardcover. Picrel is it before I rebound it.

>>20578750
>all literally happened thing
anon likely means the proper historical stuff, like Genesis and a big part of the OT, Acts, Gospels, and everything.

>>20578772
wait till you see Raymond E Brown..

Is N. T. Wright's The Resurrection of the Son of God really all the hype makes it out to be? Curious, because I always hear people from different persuasions recommending it, but at the same time I've heard iffy things about N. T. Wright's own theology.

>>20578779
that's a very nice edition I've seen, I like the original cover too. but the student edition is different, picrel. from what I recall (only time I've read it was the copy in my old high school's library) it has a more extensive introduction written specifically for students. also it's double column (I think), big font bottom notes, thicker paper. I liked it because it's obviously meant for daily use and wear and tear
>>20578780
Genesis did not literally happen, neither does the early Church concur with that statement (see the quotes from the Fathers in this page https://www.catholic.com/tract/creation-and-genesis))

>>20578791
It’s a fantastic book. Very comprehensive, almost too comprehensive, and covers everything from ancient pagan sources and their varying views of the afterlife, the conception and centrality of the resurrection in early Christian sources, the later gnostic views of resurrection (or lack thereof in their case), and how given all of the facts available, i.e. that Christians somehow came to believe in a very physical and real resurrection of Jesus that was seen by followers and enemies of Jesus alike, and given various internal elements of the Gospels (particularly how the Old Testament Biblical seem to just cease in the section about the empty tomb, and how Jesus defied expectations in some ways), Wright eventually concludes that 1st century history is impossible to understand if we do not posit the resurrection. He says that history doesn’t work by syllogisms or things that are undeniably true, but given what we know, and how Christianity spread, and how Christians somehow from a very early date came to believe in a faith with its central point being the resurrection, and how unlike other Messianic movements it did not die out, and how enemies and friends of Jesus alike we convinced, the conclusion is that the resurrection is essentially the best hypothesis that we have that explains (1) where Jesus body went (it could have been disproven easily if he was in the tomb), (2) how Christianity developed the beliefs it had, (3) why Christianity didn’t peter out after Jesus’ death, (4) the reported post-mortem appearances, etc.

Worth reading

>>20578791
>N. T. Wright's The Resurrection of the Son of God
might be worth seeing this video https://yewtu.be/watch?v=-5rFB6NpPqA

>>20578794
> neither does the early Church concur with that statement
Catholics claim to be ‘apostolic’ yet don’t even know what the Fathers taught. I suggest you read Fr. Seraphim’s letter to set you aright, as the Latin church has been in recent decades plagued with the heresy of Teilhardism. Meanwhile the Orthodox Church has stood strong, preserving the teachings of the Fathers on Genesis, as exhibited by St. Theophan the Recluse, St. Paisios the Athonite, St. John of Kronstadt, Fr. Seraphim Rose, Fr. Daniel Sysoev (martyred for the faith), and many, many others.

http://austroca.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/63012961-The-Patristic-Doctrine-of-Creation-1.pdf

Hello, Catholics.

Please, Go fuck yourselves.

Sincerely,
John Wycliffe.

>>20578794
Other than the introductory essay, it seems to be the same. Here's the inside of my regular edition.

>>20578866
>John Wycliffe was an English scholastic philosopher, theologian, biblical translator, reformer, Catholic priest, and a seminary professor at the University of Oxford.

>>20578848
Justin Martyr
>"For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not really complete a thousand years [Gen. 5:5]. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression ‘The day of the Lord is a thousand years’ [Ps. 90:4] is connected with this subject” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 81 [A.D. 155]).

Clement of Alexandria
>“And how could creation take place in time, seeing time was born along with things which exist? . . . That, then, we may be taught that the world was originated and not suppose that God made it in time, prophecy adds: ‘This is the book of the generation, also of the things in them, when they were created in the day that God made heaven and earth’ [Gen. 2:4]. For the expression ‘when they were created’ intimates an indefinite and dateless production of creation” (Miscellanies 6:16 [A.D. 208]).

Origen
>“For who that has understanding will suppose that the first and second and third day existed without a sun and moon and stars and that the first day was, as it were, also without a sky? I do not suppose that anyone doubts that these things figuratively indicate certain mysteries, the history having taken place in appearance and not at all literally” (The Fundamental Doctrines 4:1:16 [A.D. 225]).

Augustine
>“With the scriptures it is a matter of treating about the faith. For that reason, as I have noted repeatedly, if anyone, not understanding the mode of divine eloquence, should find something about these matters about the physical universe in our books, or hear of the same from those books, of such a kind that it seems to be at variance with the perceptions of his own rational faculties, let him believe that these other things are in no way necessary to the admonitions or accounts or predictions of the scriptures. It was not the intention of the Spirit of God, who spoke through them, to teach men anything that would not be of use to them for their salvation” (The Literal Interpretation of Genesis, 2:9 [A.D. 408]).

>“Seven days by our reckoning, after the model of the days of creation, make up a week. By the passage of such weeks time rolls on, and in these weeks one day is constituted by the course of the sun from its rising to its setting; but we must bear in mind that these days indeed recall the days of creation, but without in any way being really similar to them at all” (ibid., 4:27).

>“We know that it the Genesis creation day is different from the ordinary day with which we are familiar” (ibid., 5:2).

Look pretty patristic to me bro. Seems your argument is with Augustine and Clement and Justin Martyr, not me. Literal creationism is a modern day post-Reformation misinterpretation, it was never doctrine in the Church.

>>20578867
It was pretty much that layout, yep. Don't remember if the introduction was anything of note. Regardless, it was my first introduction to Knox and I liked it a lot

>>20578873
Literally everyone was Catholic back then. Wycliffe was the first protestant.

>>20578881
>Wycliffe was the first protestant.
So, if Protestantism didn't exist beforehand, including back to the apostolic age, you're saying Protestantism is, by definition, apostasy from the Church of Christ? Interesting.

>>20578881
Wait wait, you're saying Catholicism was the original Church then, since everyone was a Catholic? The Church Peter gave the keys to? You sound like a Catholic dude!

>>20578876
The only intro matter in mine is a two-page preface from the Archbishop of Westminster, Bernard Griffin, who gave the imprimatur. Assuming that's not it, then I guess the student edition's introduction was its only addition.

>>20578881
>we wuz

Aware me on the Douay–Rheims Bible, is it actually good or just some chud bullshit? It's based on the vulgate which seems pretty shit t.b.h. What's the deal and also why do Catholics like it

>>20578935
If you literally believed in Christianity you would devote your time into learning the original languages the Bible was written in.

>>20578935
bait post but ill respond to keep the bible thread good quality (LOL)
The vulgate is not
>pretty shit desu
it was translated by jerome directly from lost old latin, hebrew, greek and even aramaic/syriac fragments which no longer exist. it is the authoritative bible of the catholic church and was the first true critical translation, it held authority for well over 1000 years in the original translation

the DR is a translation of jerome's text into english, it is older than the KJV and directly influenced its style. the DR was updated multiple times to be more similar to the KJV ironically. today it's no longer the official english translation of the church (though the church no longer has any official translation outside of the vulgate), but it's often used by "traditionalist" english speaking catholics because it was the basis of the english texts in the trindentine mass.

it's not a translation i would use anymore (generally), unless you use the original DR from 1611 ish I think. if you want a vulgate translation use knox.

>>20578935
The Douay-Rheims is generally fine, but as I've been doing some line-by-line research with it, a few rather perplexing mistranslations have stuck out to me. And what's weird is that they're not even Challoner's mistranslations; it was correct in the original 1582, wrong in the 1633 printing of the original, and Challoner retained the wrong one. And by "mistranslations," I don't mean mistranslations of the Greek. I mean of the Latin. And it's not a matter of the translators using a pre-Clementine Vulgate Latin originally and that being the cause of the difference, because the 1582 matches the Clementine word whereas the 1633 and Challoner word does not. This research has made me start to doubt the oft-repeated assumption that the D-R is a "word-for-word, slavishly literal" translation of the Latin, because these mistranslations I'm finding aren't helping that case. I've found only a few thus far, out of seven NT books, but those are all in the shorter letters. I'm kinda worried about what I'll find when I start looking at the Gospels or the longer letters.

How long would it take for one man to translate the Latin Vulgate?

>>20579745
Knox started in 1936, the NT was published in 1945, and the OT in 1949. The full Bible was published in 1954 in one single volume. However, it should be kept in mind that Knox firstly had an entire committee to review all his translation work for anything was finalized, but nevertheless he did do all the actual translation, and secondly, that Knox wrote and published four other books between 1936 and 1945, three more in 1948 and 1949, and seven more between 1950 and 1953. While most of these admittedly were quite short books, or mere collections of his essays or sermons/talks, two of them were full books, and they show he was working on other writing projects at the same time, which no doubt slowed him down on the translation. Meanwhile, the original Douay-Rheims was principally translated by one man in four years, however he also had assistants and editors to polish the text as he went too, so you can argue whether it was a "one-man" job. So, to answer your question, somewhere between 4 and 13 years or so.

Thomas Nelson. Premiere collection. Thinline KJV. Goatskin cover. Satin ribbons. Gilded page edging. 2k Denmark typeface on 36gsm European paper.

https://youtu.be/o3eqY6fkcWQ

>>20573289
rent free

>>20579932
>Printed in China
lol

>>20573285
Reminder that if you dont speak koine greek, hebrew, etc., you have never read the bible.

If you dont care enough about god to actually read the book, you might as well just be one of those christians that only reads john 3:16 every once in a while and calls it good

>>20580269
>made in the country with the most advanced manufacturing in the world
problem?

>>20580410
Yes, because my Bible was printed in 1904 and still holds up, meaning it's already proved able to last over a century of use. Your Chinese Bible will be tossed aside when the next """update""" comes out, if the design doesn't fall apart before then.

>>20579932
Church Bible Publishers. Compact Cameo King James (no "V") Bible. Ironed calf skin. Gold gilded edges. Smyth-sewn pages for strength and flexibility. 2 1/4″ wide ribbon markers of perfect length. Center column cross references and translator's notations of original language alternatives. 15 Beautifully printed maps with index. Clear, readable 8.5 pt text of whatever font on whatever paper, printed and bound by independent Baptist church folk hands in the United States of America.

>>20580410
nyc had subways for like a century, of course the statin have a retro look with raw steel girders etc. try comparing a new station to china.

>>20573285
which book would you recommend for someone to enter the Christianity faith as a Muslim? I would love to know more about the religion yet I have no clue where to start.

>>20580787
The Holy Bible, start to finish.

>>20580817
Aren't there a billion versions of the holy bible? which version am I supposed to read?

>>20580787
"Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus: A Devout Muslim Encounters Christianity" by Nabeel Qureshi.

>>20580854
stay far from the non-literal ones, like the Message and other ones like it.
i heard ESV is nice. if you don't mind having to search the meaning of things (which might've even changed sense completely!) the KJV is very poetic aswell.
always compare versions, check commentary, and check the original Hebrew and Greek and explanations on it if you find anything that sounds "contradictory" or strange.

>>20580787
I recommend a study Bible. For the New Testament, get either the The Navarre Bible: New Testament Expanded Edition (expensive, ~70 USD) or the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible: New Testament (~20 USD). There's not a lot of Old Testament study Bibles that I know of. You'd have to get individual study books of the Old Testament, like The Book of Genesis: Ignatius Catholic Study Bible, etc.

>>20580854
No, only the King James, everything else is a "bible" at best.

is Constantine in heaven now? he was ruthless and murderous in pursuing his ambition but got baptised on his deathbed

>>20580787
Besides the Bible:
William Jurgens, Faith of the Early Fathers (a good anthology of texts by the early Church Fathers)
St Augustine, Confessions
Blaise Pascal, Pensées
G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy

What English translation of the bible has the most complex prose? I know translations like the KJV were written in simple language to be understood by many, but I was wondering if there were any that weren't written with this goal.

>>20581226
what a demented misogynistic lunatic

>>20581226
>AMONG VS

>>20573396
dangerously based
>>20581595
>ruthless and muderous in pursuing his ambition
As were many who in the end became right with the Lord.
Remember that Christ even even asked His Father to forgive the soldiers who crucified Him, and remember His words to the adulterous woman:
>Go, and sin no more.
Real repentence (God can tell what is genuine, even if we cannot always tell ourselves) is accepted by the Lord, always.

>>20580385
actually the oldest OT manuscripts we have are in koine - the hebrew used today as the masoretic text is a retranslations in some parts of the LXX. So even the hebrew is a fragmentary translation
same with the NT. jesus and his followers like spoke aramaic (perhaps a bit of greek, latin and hebrew too). the modern koine OT is likely an oral translation of the original aramaic.
so there is no longer any "accessible" "original languages", not even to the first century christians.
you might want to read up on why faith is a key part of christianity :^)
>>20580787
this >>20580878
>>20581595
The church makes no comment on whether anyone or not is definitely in heaven or hell besides canonized saints
>>20581627
New English Bible or Revised English Bible
>>20581632
why? that is an orthodox doctrinal position (assuming no mitigating circumstances)

Good books on the Psalms or good editions of the work itself?

>>20582076
Merton - Bread in the Wilderness
Some good editions of just the psalms - the newly released USCCB leather bound abbey psalms and canticles

>>20582088
another good book on the psalms by merton

what's your favorite Biblical archeology/external sources confirming Biblical events?

For me, it's the Ipuwer Papyrus. Ancient Egyptian Papyrus written by a sage named Ipuwer detailing a first hand account of the 10 plagues God sent upon Egypt.

Ipuwer:
2:5-6 Plague is throughout the land. Blood is everywhere.
2:10 The river is blood.
2:10 Men shrink from tasting – human beings, and thirst after water
2:10 Forsooth, gates, columns and walls are consumed by fire.
5:5 All animals, their hearts weep. Cattle moan…
9:11 The land is without light.
4:3 (5:6) Forsooth, the children of princes are dashed against the walls.
6:12 Forsooth, the children of princes are cast out in the streets.
3:14 It is groaning throughout the land, mingled with lamentations.
7:1 Behold, the fire has mounted up on high. Its burning goes forth against the enemies of the land.

>>20582076
Check out the Sidney Psalter

>>20582102
I already saw him in Buck and the Preacher with Harry Belafonte.

Please pray for my friend I had a discussion with her today and although I haven't told her yet I think she's going to hell if she doesn't repent. She's very cooperative and genuinely interested in salvation, I read her Luke and Acts this week, but she has a demon inside (she had a traumatic childhood) that at the end of day makes her physically repulsed by Christ. I prayed for her tonight, and I'll pray for her at church tomorrow, but I'm not worthy enough myself to be enough, so please pray for her.

>>20582965
OK, may the LORD God Almighty bless and keep the both of you.

Just got back from Confession. Deleted both my pixiv account with my old NSFW art and my NSFW AO3 fanfiction account. I'm free.

>>20582064
lol this is what almost all modern "christians" sound like. "Oh don't even read the bible, just have faith that it is true :)"

>>20583233
it's only protestants

>>20578848
>you haben't read duh fathers
>tells catholiks to read some New-Age tier Repressed Homo-Sexual
you ortholarpers are literally midwit tier pseuds

If you are not Roman Catholic, then you are no more a Christian than an old funny-smelling bearded dude in a dusty outfit who thinks that jingle bells, glittering necklaces and i-cons are a sure path to heaven while showing no distinctive MARKS of being the legitimate Church founded by Christ, Unity being one of those distinctive marks (pic-related); you are nothing more than a Schismatic if you are not in communion with the Bishop of Rome, the Rock of Christ's Church.

>be listening to audiobible
>read wiki on the book after i finish it
>realize i read over shit and completely ignored its significance
>example just finish psalms 1-40 and start reading wiki
>apparently psalms 22-23 are pretty fucking important
am i just a brainlet? how do i get better at this?

>>20584201
i'd say actually read it. when you're listening it's usually while doing something else, and it's already hard to understand the Bible when you're completely focused.
Psalm 22 is messianic prophecy to be exact, also.

Is the NEW ENGLISH TRANSLATION worth it? It has a lot of notes.

>>20573384
Of course it’s myth, in the technical sense of “narrative that involves the intervention and presence of divine beings as characters.”

You would go astray, however, if you were associating the word ‘myth’ with that narrative being untrue.

The biblical narrative is the myth that is true.

>Wife mad about abortion overturn
>Starts ranting anout the bible and Christian stupidity
>Says most religion is just their own interpretations of the bible
>She keeps seething but being very informative
>After her rant decide to read the bible and see what the fucks the big deal
>Very curious to what I learn seeing as how I havent looked into any religion whatsoever

Anyways heres my question. She saying to use her version which is pic related. This is what she used during her presbyterian studies and says it just makes it easier to read compared to the all popular king james version. I just want to be sure that her version is a good translation of original. Also should i get a king james version anyways to compare to hers?

Do any versions of the bible take any ideas from the Divine Comedy version of hell? Asking for a friend

>>20580787
The Gospels

>>20584870
...?

>>20584879
Im aware the divine comdey draws from the bible but what im asking is if theres a later version that then reuses the divine comedies version of hell over the original texts

>>20584894
Why would anyone make a new version of the Bible? People just make new translations. Do you mean not the Bible but rather texts like the Book of Mormon?

>>20584901
Yes, thats what I mean please treat me like an ape tw6vt

>>20584846
never a bad idea to get something to compare to. i also recommend Biblehub to check commentaries and the original.
besides the old english, the KJV is very accurate aswell.
here's the important bit: search for the explanation/original/commentary for anything that sounds weird. a lot of people get caught up in a misunderstanding or involuntary warping of a verse's meaning.

don't let your wife think for you about it, also. (this appears to sound rude, and i don't mean so if it does)

>>20584846
>gender inclusive language
watch out for that if you do plan on reading the NRSV

>>20584908
I don't know, but it's not Christian if it is, and it's not a Bible either. As far as I know all Christians follow the LXX, the Vulgate, the MT, or a combination of them, which were all written before Dante was born. Christians don't get updated Bible versions.

>>20584846
>being very informative
>pro abortion
What did he mean by this?

>>20584961
probably talked about the Bible while at it and anon thought he should see what's in it (an amazing choice, if i may).

What’s so bad about the Uniting Church?
I’ve had and old man tell me that they say ‘Lucifer is Jesus’ brother’ and a young Anglican pastor tell me they’re false shepherds.
I’m Catholic, by the way, and I don’t know much about them.

>>20584846
>>20584915
and as i might aswell add, remember the Bible is always right.
i know it sounds strange, but trust me. having that line of thought also protects you from the misunderstanding of verses i talked about (because you realize the issue is you, who didn't understand)
Have you got a reading order yet?
if you don't: Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts, John, Epistles, Revelation, OT.
you can swap the Gospels around, and be careful with the Epistles; they're very complicated and dense.
the Pentateuch(first five in the OT) is basically a law and history book. people who try to read it cover to cover usually get stuck there.
also NT before OT because it helps you see the prophecy in it (whose conclusion is Jesus Christ).
as a little interesting thing, check the meaning of the names in the Genesis 5 genealogy.

careful with what you read about it, and be sure to put it against the Bible and have common sense. people love to lie to you their own interpretation of the Bible.

>>20584705
For the notes? Sure. The translation itself? No. Basically everyone agrees the NET only exists because they thought they had to publish the notes with something. (They didn't btw, everyone would've much preferred had they just published the notes in a separate volume). It's not a "bad" translation, technically; it's just really bland.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMLxTHz1Nt0

>>20584996
that old man is wrong, for starters. wrong is a weak word for it, even.
the Anglican fellow seems to know a bit more about their problems, but just checking their beliefs page already showed a big error: same-sex marriage.
they sound off aswell, along with all the 'ecumenicalism' stuff.

>>20584846
>Says most religion is just their own interpretations of the bible
Funny.
>Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Peter 1:20-21)

>>20585027
oh, sorry, i thought the old man said that.

>>20585029
Isnt that why theres multiple denominations? Im confused here hows peter come into play?

>>20584996
>>20585027
>>20585032
(both are me)
to add on a quick search, they seem to have started off theologically decent, and now are going downhill with all kinds of heretical teachings.

Anyone here know anything about French translations of the Bible? Which are considered the important ones?

>>20585480
The Jerusalem Bible.

What did he mean by this?

>>20583233
>>20583973

Will the Orthodox and Catholic Churches ever be able to reunify?
I unironically feel depressed and saddened by the fact that Christianity has been divided for a thousand years.

>>20585769
the flesh is sinful, and through Christ he can act rightfully.
Basically talking aboug fighting his sinful desires, which are in our nature, to live according to God's will and Law.

>>20583233
how is knowing about biblical and textual scholarship antithetical to the faith?
>>20583991
The funny part is how ortholarpers will quote """Brother Nathaniel""" or Seraphim Rose but ignore Augustine, Aquinas, Bonaventure, Anselm, Gregory the Great, Ignatius, etc. Do I really want to take theological wisdom from literal San Francisco homosexual beatnik who believed UFOs were Catholic demons send by the antipope to trick Russian Orthodox (not joking, this is his actual theology), or from the saints who wrote City of God, Confessions, Summa Theologica, the Spiritual Exercises, etc.
>>20584007
great image - it's funny how the Oriental Orthodox churches are actually numerically bigger than the EO but get completely ignored by "neo-orthodox" online.
>>20584705
>NEW ENGLISH TRANSLATION
it's an explicitly American evangelical translation - doesn't mean it's awful, but it's going to have a very overt theological slant. Keep that in mind.
>>20584846
>>20584939
>>20585051
NRSV(ue) is fine and is the modern nondenominational standard. Do you know anything about Christianity at all, or are you starting from ground zero? Read the Gospel of John first. You seem to know almost nothing about Christianity at all (which is fine btw) - it might unironically be worth your time to read the whole wikipedia summary of "Christianity", it's a good overview.
>>20584996
seems like they're a broad protestant liberal denomination with no clear theology (today that means the church focuses on gay and transsexual "issues", "social justice", etc.). stay away.
>>20585769
concupiscence

>>20585827
Protestants read the Bible personally, but Catholics and Orthodox have the entire Bible read to them in Mass. At the end of the day, both are consuming the Bible. Also, I'm gonna assume that 21% of "nones" are the atheists who either write anti-Christian books or internet atheists who count plucking an out-of-context verse to post in an argument as "reading Scripture," right?

>>20585924
short answer - not anytime soon. The Russian Orthodox branch especially is very hostile towards Rome and even other Orthodox branches (Greek especially). Eastern Orthodoxy has too many interschisms right now to even talk about reunification (see the Ukrainian v. Russian Orthodox saga the past 5 years, which I personally think largely lead to the Ukrainian war via Kirill pushing for physical intervention). If there's any movement towards reunification it will be Oriental Orthodox towards Catholicism, they're already rather close liturgically to the Maronite, Syrian, Armenian, and Syro-Malankara Rites theologically. There's also a trend in conservative high church Anglican circles towards reunifications (see the recently established Anglican Rite)

>>20585924
No, papal infailibility is not Christian, so there won't be any reunification until Catholics give up their heresies. Same with prots.

>>20585953
>wikipedia
there must be a better suggestion. that's gonna be full of small atheistic remarks.
>concupiscence
not just that. every sin. someone could feel greed seeing money or handling it.

>>20585953
>Oriental Orthodox churches are actually numerically bigger than the EO but get completely ignored by "neo-orthodox" online.
Because the EOC ironically gets protection from the RCC in terms of recognized legitimacy, whether they care or not about Rome's recognition, by virtue of being a fellow Chalcedonian church. Though larger, the OOC accepted the Robber Council of "Second Ephesus," and thus adopted heresy that the EOC repented for at Chalcedon.
>it's an explicitly American evangelical translation - doesn't mean it's awful, but it's going to have a very overt theological slant. Keep that in mind.
Eh, going by this video >>20585012, I'm going to have to say, evangelical or not, it's a really bland translation whose only real defining characteristic is the notes. If you want to have it for the notes, then fine, but I highly doubt one should adopt the NET as their "primary" translation.
>NRSV(ue) is fine and is the modern nondenominational standard.
I haven't been that impressed by the changes in the Updated Edition. It just seems they're doubling down on the very things the NRSV was criticized for over the past 30 years: removing Christology where they can and "gender-inclusive" pronouns even in places where the text does not call for it. Rendering a previously gender-netural "man" or "he" as "people" or "they" is one thing; but doing so in places where the original Greek is specifically using an exclusively masculine pronoun is another entirely. That's not "formal equivalence," but rather distortion.

>>20586015
huh?

>>20585973
Matthew 16:18

>>20586015
The Chalcedonian/Miaphysite distinction is realistically insignificant today, and even the OO churches have stated as such. (https://www.anglicancommunion.org/media/103502/anglican-oriental-orthodox-agreed-statement-on-christology-cairo-2014.pdf).). The differences between the EO and RCC are larger than the OO and RCC

>>20585956
>Catholics and Orthodox have the entire Bible read to them in Mass
False

>>20586065
https://www.loyolapress.com/catholic-resources/liturgical-year/liturgical-cycles/

>>20586092
>parts of 3 gospels
>entire Bible

>>20586092
https://www.catholic.com/qa/percentage-of-the-bible-in-the-lectionary

Like I said, false.

>>20586103
>he didn't read beyond the headlines
Par for the course. The cycles show which Synoptic Gospel is the focus for that year. It is read alongside John, the rest of the NT, and the rest of the OT; if you attend church regularly for three years, you will have had the Bible read to you.

>>20586114
Not according to your own propaganda pushers.
>>20586111

>>20586036
Yes, cherrypicking and misinterpreting verses just like your friends.

>>20584846
Your wife should understand that Christianity has nothing to do with Alito's ruling. There is no right to abortion in the Constitution. To the extent Roe purported that there was one, Alito completely dismantles that argument, AND the dissent makes NO ATTEMPT to claim that there is such a right.

IOW, the gist of her beef against Christianity - while consistent, I suppose, with misinformation being pushed by the media - is flatly wrong.

>>20573285
True meaning of Bible.

Only those who voluntarily become homeless can find the true kingdom. But those who are unwillingly homeless are lost, and those who are not homeless are blind.

This is the real truth of which Jesus spoke of. You must become willingly homeless, and remain blameless, and use your innocent imagination to be happy, like a child oft will do.

>And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
Matt 19:29

>Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

Matt 19:21 to Matt 19:24

>Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”
Matt 19:14

I saw the truth for a brief time when I was voluntarily homeless but then the evil dragon which is called satan pulled me back into the evil prison known as housing and adulthood.

>22 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

4 “Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

5 “But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ 10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests

>thread hasn't been deleted
Christ prevails over the janny

>>20586194
Janny was intimidated by OP's pass

>>20586210
OP will never pass and traps are gay.

What do Christians think about Jews (as in followers of Judaism) with respect to their salvation/eternal dwelling?

>>20586299
rabbinic judaism, to be even more specific? the messianics are Christians.
think they're being deceived and led astray by modern rabbis, who are doing everything in their power to keep ruling (going as far as contradicting older rabbis and their own sages and rabbinic books).
the one for israel channel shows that a bit. check the 'forbidden chapter' video. most of them hadn't even heard of Isaiah 53.

>>20586299
they reject Christ and therefore are not saved. They also committed much sin and wickedness against God after all he had done for them

They're basically an example of what not to do

>>20586341
What about Romans 11:26?

>>20586353
Isaiah 59:20
could be referring to the second coming of Christ, and of all the people in Israel who believe.
it's not literally everyone, as some reject God.

what's your favourite ?
for me it's corinthians 13

I'm NGMI

>>20586580
Just MI no matter what.

>>20586146
>misinterpreted
Nope, it's the plain reading that everyone recognizes except copers.

Lots of papists on /lit/
Who /presbyterian/ here?

>>20586640
What's the deal with presbyterians?

Catholics, Protestants, or Orthodox? Who has the best biblical interpretation? It's time to settle this once and for all.

What's the default translation on biblehub? e.g. https://biblehub.com/joshua/

>>20586669
We are both based and redpilled.

>>20586698
Berean Study Bible

>>20586709
Looks good thanks

>>20586741
It was done by a committee of scholars open for public input and the translation table spreadsheets are published here:

https://www.openbible.com/downloads.htm

what translation do you use anons?

>>20573285
that cover is very nice.

>>20587201
KJV

>>20587201

>>20587268
Is there a version of this with all the removed passages?

>decides to finish up reading exodus
>tfw most of the second have of the book is literally just an extremely detailed instruction booklet on building the tabernacle, tailoring the priestly garments, preparing the ark and the furnishings, and the training of the priests themselves
>whilst they're still in Sinai
>oh the golden calf appears to and 3000 are killed due to the heresy
when are the going to reach israel?

>>20587201
NRSV is my favourite

>>20587302
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Testament_verses_not_included_in_modern_English_translations

>>20587478
End of Deuteronomy and into Joshua.

This was truly a wonderful weekend with the overturning of roe v wade. God has dealt a mighty blow to satan. Sad to see how many women are lost and demand the ability to murder their children.

>>20587672
Could you not post this shit here?

>>20587694
Begone, Satan.

>>20587694
If you had the power to, you would stop him, wouldn’t you?

Catholicism has more Realpolitik in attaining and retaining Followers.
Prove me wrong.

>>20587753
It just feels like it's dragging this thread away from the Bible as literature to become one about religion and politics

>>20587835
When’s the last time you’ve seen a Nietzsche thread?

>>20586036
Peter was fallible

>>20587867
This, and married.

>>20587784
Because it's kinda akin to blackmail. Catholic legalism states that missing Sunday Mass is a mortal sin. So any Catholics who actually care about moral sins (i.e., the kinds that would then take things like confession to a priest seriously) are literally compelled to attend Mass by threat of eternal damnation. By contrast, for protestants, it's more of a thing you should probably do but, eh, it doesn't hurt too much if you only come every now and then.

>>20588205
>blackmail
That can be said of anything that involves ‘fearing God’, even the 10 Commandments.

>>20588416
The difference is, unlike say Pentecostals or Nondoms or Baptists or whatever other made-up American nonsense there is, Catholics actually believe it.

>>20586580
You have been and are being prayed for.

>>20586299
it's complicated, essentially there's some strands of christianity which believe that the 2nd coming won't happen until all jews become christian. however, if the Church is the new israel, it's more complex. keep in mind rabbinical judiaism shares little in common with the jewish faith of the 1st century AD
>>20586669
>>20586702
calvinist delusion taken too far (though not as far as baptists)
>>20587201
I cross reference any difficult verse (which is most verses) but generally I stick to the nabre
>>20587302
the "removed" verses are later scribal extrapolations which are not textually supported by any post 16th century scholarship or the earliest manuscripts
>>20587478
bible in a year podcast, you're in for a slog with the rest of the Pentateuch.
>>20587867
>>20587921
1. celibacy is a discipline, could be reversed by the latin rite tmrw.
2. peter's fallibility has nothing to do with papal authority, all popes are human and fallible unless speaking w the magisterium ex cathedra
>>20587784
>>20588205
>>20588416
>>20588494
you understand nothing about the nature of sin or mortal sin. the point of the sunday obligation is not to please God (as if God needs our worship - he does not), and the 3rd commandment is no longer binding under the new covenant. the only reason is it a sin is because the Church declared it so ("you have the power to bind and loose" etc.) in order to preserve the connection of the faithful to the word of god and the body of christ. the sunday obligation is not out of punishment, it is for the souls of the faithful of the Church

I'm looking for a KJV Study Bible that doesn't really have a sect leaning and is more for understanding the general history if the time and relation between old and new testament. At least not Catholic or Calvinist.

>>20579932
>>20580462
>Paul Allen's Bible

Verification not required.

>>20581226
Women aren't responsible for their actions though. They're barely concious of the ramifications until after they face them and most of the time they'll double down in ignorance and naivety. It's the men that convinced them it was okay that should be held fir murder. It's like blaming the animal that was groomed by their master to attack another.

>>20588726
Sunday worship is admittedly created by Rome. They admit they "changed" God's Law, as if they have any right or power over God (which they also claimed). And they used to kill saints who wouldn't keep Sunday (or owned a Bible or preached it or exposed their lies).
https://remnantofgod.org/beastword.htm
https://ssremnant.org/sabbath.html
https://www.the-sabbath.org/

The Roman Catholic Cult is the WHORE OF BABYLON
https://www.end-times-prophecy.org/the-whore-of-babylon.html
https://remnantofgod.org/quikfacts.htm
https://jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/catholic_church_is_not_christian.htm

As for the rest of your claim, I'll only cite one verse from the OT, since you think Christ destroyed it for some reason when he explicitly stated he did not.
Ecclesiastes 12:13
>Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

As for from the NT, you are clearly wrong.
Matthew 5:17-18
>17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
>18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
John 14:15
>15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 15:10
>10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1 John 2:3-4
>3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
>4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 3:22
>22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1 John 5:2-3
>2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
>3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Revelation 14:12
>12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
And if that's not enough, you can search for yourself. I could post more, but I know you won't receive it. I only post this for others.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/search.php?hs=1&q=keep+his+commandments

inb4 mental gymnastics, kvetching about "muh church fathers" and "muh roman talmud catechism" or kvetching about Luther when I made no mention of him
Matthew 23:9
>9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mark 7:13
>13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

And no, Sunday is never called the Lord's day in the Bible. Nowhere do we see God change the sabbath to the first day instead of the 7th, that is a satanic inversion.

While I'm at it, Trinity comes from Babylon too.
https://www.trinitytruth.org/
https://ssremnant.org/GodheadvsTrinity.html

>>20587784
Why no data for orthodox?

In the name of the Father Jehovah, of the Son Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit Paraclete.
Amen.

>>20588849
>Sunday worship is admittedly created by Rome. They admit they "changed" God's Law, as if they have any right or power over God (which they also claimed). And they used to kill saints who wouldn't keep Sunday (or owned a Bible or preached it or exposed their lies).
Can I strangle you with my bare hands, idiot?
From Acts XX:7:
"On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight."
This would be Sunday, now; worship was on Sunday.

>>20573285
what do you guys think of Bible covers? usual gold/silver on black?
op's pic looks so nice.

>>20590206
Why would I want some corporate made widget crap covering the glory of my hand bound ironed calf skin leather and the words "Holy Bible"?

just bought a esv bible for 5 dollars at a used book store. *cracks fingers* yep, its jesus time

>>20590240
>having any text at all on the Bible
Imagine thinking the Bible can't stand on its own.

>>20590254
Rather based

>>20586690
Depends on what you mean by best.
Prots generally derive their interpretation from the scriptures alone, while Catholic/Orthodox take into account traditions/dogmas passed down outside of scripture and that gives them more leeway in how to interpret certain passages.
Not a prot myself but I do like to read Calvin's writings sometime; I don't mean that I agree with his conclusions but I do find how he built up his system from scripture alone to be impressive. That, and, some of his commentaries are really interesting even from a non-Calvinist perspective.

>>20588726
Why does speaking from the chair make the fallible pope suddenly infallible?

>>20590796
The same way speaking from the chair made the fallible St. Peter, and his successors, infallible and deferred to by all on matters of Church doctrine. The same reason why churches seeking to settle a dispute sent a letter to Pope Clement I for an authoritative ruling even when the Apostle John was still alive and actually physically closer to them than Rome. You can't explain why those churches sought Clement over John unless you conclude that Clement (a non-apostle) had been given authority greater than that of a living apostle, by being Peter's successor.

What do you guys think of the Canaanite woman? I know the standard apologetic exegeses but it seems likely it points to Jesus' initial ministry being for Israel only. The principle of embarrassment would suggest that it's authentic. It's moments like those where you can almost break through to the real historical Jesus that are most fascinating to me. Especially in Mark.

Also in Matthew 26:48-49
>Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: “The one I kiss is the man; arrest him.” Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” and kissed him.
This seems to imply Jesus was blending in among his congregation. Mark must have had his hands on something really special, an original narrative source. I read somewhere that it's now believed to be a written source, not oral, because of how literal some of the translations of Aramaic idioms into Greek are.

>>20590853
I guess he didn't have a chair near by when he got into it with Paul and when James gave the ultimate ruling. He should have had a portable folder in case he needed to sit down and rule at any given moment.

>>20590853
>The same way speaking from the chair made the fallible St. Peter, and his successors, infallible and deferred to by all on matters of Church doctrine.
And what way is that?
What is the chair, his position or a literal seat?
And how do you explain disagreements with Peter recorded in the epistles?
Do you think that Gentile Christians and Jewish Christians should not eat together?

>>20590872
>James gave the ultimate ruling
Because it was a matter of the local church. Of course the Bishop of Jerusalem will make a final determination on the Jerusalem church. You seem to think the Pope micromanages the actions of the millions of local churches. I assume you also think the prime minister does the job of every town mayor, too? In Acts 15, everyone falls silent when Peter speaks, and James says "Simon has related" or, in other words, "Peter has spoken." When Peter speaks, he says "We believe," speaking for the Christian Church as a whole, and when James speaks he says "I believe," giving his personal pastoral opinion on the matter. I'd recommend actually reading the Acts of the Apostles, especially in Acts 15:7-11 and 22-28, before ignorantly commenting on it. God bless.

>>20590854
the "historical Jesus" idea is a pitiful attempt at dishonoring Christ.
As for the Canaanite woman, i'd take the proper exegesis over some exclusion.
as for the betrayal, it's a big group of men, and the soldiers didn't know Him. you couldn't just point out Christ looking at them.
lastly, don't listen to "modern scholars". most of them are biased against Christianity and trying to tie mundane 'sources' to it, which can then be used to attack the whole of Scripture.

>>20591005
>all of this twisting and cope

>>20591130
>reading what the Bible says in context is twisting and coping
lol

>>20591189
Yeah, no, it was not an isolated local church matter, it was a major doctrinal decision that effected all Christianity, and it was James who made the final decree. So yes, (You) are most certainly twisting.

>>20573285
I'm re reading galatians now.
I didn't remember Paul having to confront Peter because he was caving to those who thought that mosaic law should supercede the gospel.

Reading it, it's easy to see why God called Paul. He was needed, since James, Peter, and Barnabas were all caving to the jews who wanted to force the law on gentiles. Him literally telling Peter Jesus' death is pointless if righteousness could be gained through works of the law really drives it home

For those who don't know what I'm referring to its Galatians 2:11-21

>>20591895
This also proves that Jesus didn't give the Apostles instructions for all kinds of details for running the institution that were then handed down orally outside of Scripture. Fallible men concocted by far the greater bulk at least of the institutional mechanisms and doctrines. There is zero reason to allow institutions to become idols.

>>20591895
Paul was obviously seriously based too, going into a situation where he was essentially a "new guy" and straightening out those who "were there from the beginning". This also dispels the notion that proximity to Jesus in the historical timeline doesn't automatically grant one more or perfect insight into Him and His mysteries. It is absolutely possible for someone to come along later that has a particular greater insight.

https://youtu.be/pRDjAv3SKrU
look at what i just found

>>20591016
I understand where you're coming from, but I personally don't think this kind of fideism is necessary. Christ is big enough that he doesn't need protecting.

>>20592170
oh, don't get me wrong; historical context is paramount and extremely helpful in understanding Scripture.
i'm against the ones who do things like putting the Gospels after 70 AD because Christ prophesized the fall of the temple, or like is exemplified in >>20592130 try to do so with Daniel because of all the prophecy.

Joshua 5:13–15
Was this Jesus?

>>20591946
Are you advocating for nondenominational every man for himself? It never ended up well.

>>20580410
>New York
>part of the USA

Pick one

What are the best Bible resources for beginners? I use gotquestions and biblehub

>>20592804
those are quite decent. mind the calvinist slant of gotquestions.
i'd also recommend Bible Project's word studies (but just that, their theology is kinda simplified and iffy)
and the one for israel channel. they've got really nice videos.

>>20592611
It's a lot more complex than that, but in some ways it has grown to where it has to be something essentially close to that in the overt sense. The 2 oldest institutions were polluted with serious idolatry and they both double down with false claims that those practices are of Apostolic origin, so anyone mindful and honest on those matters can't in good conscious join them. In contrast, Protestantism is a mixed bag to say the least, spanning from earnest, humble, imperfect attempts at understanding and honoring God, to grifting clown shows and outright sin affirming. There is no single, globally available institution to point someone to and say "that's *the* one true real deal through and through".

Yet, despite such circumstances, a great many, if not somewhere approaching most of those institutions probably have at least *some* authentic Christian servants of God as members, even if only He knows which is which and whom is whom (I mean, that's for sure, only He knows) and we are often unable to identify with any certainty due to our own biased preconceptions.

So in a way, yes...each must determine what congregation and/or institution is "right" for them as best they can. I put congregation before institution there in purpose, because it's absolutely possible for their to be a particular congregation that does a pretty decent "job" despite whatever institution it might be a part of. I know this first hand because I grew up in an old rural Methodist church that was mostly excellent despite the UMC being so pozzed. Sadly, it has really gone down hill over this last very few years and none of that has anything to do with the UMC/GMC issues. It served me very well as a church to grow up in and I took my own son there as well, taught his Sunday school class, even. My last visit there was to speak at a funeral for my oldest friend in life whom also grew up there, one year younger than myself. It was a fitting enough close.

Anyway, point to all that is to demonstrate how things are a lot more deeply nuanced and complex than can be answered with any sort of "one true church" kind of notion in a world this fallen and after ~2000 years of man's involvement with institutional churchism, and God is big enough to be more than capable of spreading Himself around in countless myriads of interesting ways and individuals in countless myriads of circumstances, not too unlike a mycelial network which is mostly invisible, with periodically visible fungal caps appearing far apart within environmental varieties spanning vast distances despite all being a single organism.

Never forget that the Samaritans were technically heretical Jews and the Levites were orthodox, yet the Good Samaritan was part of Christ's Body and the Levite was just some dude walking by.

>societal moral victory
>all religions celebrate
>Christianity is the only religion that gets targeted with hate speech and death threats

why is this always the case?

>>20593069
Christianity is inconvenient for the international elite.

I wonder if the goebbels poster of /pol/ is among us

The prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Are the prayers of sinners worth anything?

>>20593763
Prayer by prayer basis.

>>20593763
Doubtful. Just be glad you're not in hell desu

>Sacks expressed concern at what he regarded as the negative effects of materialism and secularism in European society, arguing that they undermined the basic values of family life and lead to selfishness. In 2009, Sacks gave an address claiming that Europeans have chosen consumerism over the self-sacrifice of parenting children, and that "the major assault on religion today comes from the neo-Darwinians". He argued that Europe is in population decline "because non-believers lack shared values of family and community that religion has".

>>20593019
So you're a prot. Shocking.

>>20592904
>mind the calvinist slant of gotquestions.
I thought they were lutherans because of their insistence on faith alone, but I don't really understand the various protestant faiths.

What's your favorite history book in the OT?

How much do you give weekly?

>>20573285
>He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die.

>>20594589
0 because I love Jesus Christ, not men in churches

What should I read next?

>>20594743
keep going with the OT stuff.
check this out >>20592130

R-E-M-I-N-D-E-R

What is the Anglican ‘High Church’? Is there a ‘Low Church’?
Sounds like a caste system to me.

>>20595116
What's wrong with a caste system?

>Gideons
>THIS BOOK IS NOT TO BE SOLD
More like ‘THIS BOOK IS NOT TO BE BOUGHT’ even though they’re mass-produced. They’re so convenient despite not having the New Testament. I’ve got one ESV but they also do KJV and I think it would be worthy to compare two translations hand-in-hand on the bus to better understand how semantics can lead one to quite different conclusions based on the very same premises.

>>20595126
It is contrary to meritocracy.

>>20595140
So?

>>20595144
Society is becomes more inefficient when its intellectual resources are not distributed to the optimal position of shared benefit, especially in leadership.

>>20595154
Redundant ‘is’*
I was editing it halfway.

>>20595154
Christianity is not based on utilitarinism

>>20578947
Nonsense: God has given a perfect translation of the Bible in certain languages. In English, it's the KJV. You're not Christian because every English-speaking Christian knows this for a fact.
Sheep recognize the voice of their shepherd

>>20595160
>God has given a perfect translation of the Bible in certain languages. In English, it's the KJV.
No he didn't

>>20595159
>the parable of the buried talent

>>20595160
Provide a list of all ‘perfect translations’ into languages other than English.

>>20595173
That just says you should use God's gifts

>>20595189
Apply that to the macroscale: nations instead of individuals, ergo the relation to any proposed caste system.

>>20595315
Fair enough, but that's not what the Anglican high church is because you can join whichever you want

>>20595348
I was asking what it was. That was just my assumption by the sound of such a distinction between High and ‘not High’ of which I was hoping to be proven wrong.
By the following albeit tangential discourse, the idea of a caste system itself (possibly independent from Christianity) was defended, which made said assumption more plausible in relation to the original question, but it may be that it was a different poster answering (/lit/ doesn’t mark IDs).

>>20595405
Well you're right, the Church shouldn't follow a caste system because the Church should do its best to worship God as well as it can. I was the one asking questions to understand your POV as I never thought about it personally.

What are the best commentaries on BibleHub?

>>20582099
Has anyone got anything else like this?

>>20595511
The Gideon jug. It has his nickname on it which is unique and found only in the Bible.

>>20595477
Different ones for given verses/passages.

>>20595697
Interesting thanks man, would love to hear more if anyone else knows of any

>>20595756
archaeologists found a palace that seems to be David's; has columns only used at the time and other such things.
also a burned library, although the seals used to hold the scrolls are mostly there. they found a broken one that has 'Isaiah' and part of the word for 'prophet' on it.
also an altar on what appears to be one of the mountains where the blessings and curses were read, with the part of the curses written on that specific one.

>>20595697
also also some historical inscription on some stone, from an enemy nation, detailing a victory against 'the house of David' i.e. Israel.
(and that's even more valuable, because you know someone who is against the israelites wouldn't care to write something besides literal history)

>>20595988
meant to quote >>20595756
but still fits

>>20594158
So you're a negro. Shocking.

>>20595090
>not realizing that coming out of Babylon is another form of baptismal relevance
"Early Church Fathers" NGMI

So the OT justifies the Holocaust. Jews have no right to complain then.

>>20597056
>thinking about this

>>20573285
hmm

>>20597634
hymn

Is marital non-vaginal sex (broad grouping, I know) permissible provided that one ‘finish’ in the vagina without contraception?

>>20598486
No, you're not allowed to fuck your wife's ass.

>>20598489
What about the mouth?

>>20598499
Do you think the letter of the law is what's important here, or the intent behind your actions?

>>20598025
lol

>>20598649
Yes, it is written that if one is at fault of one part of the law, he is at fault with them all.
I just want to find out which law.

(New to reading the bible and its history) How do the Catholics rationalize the trinity? It seems quite clear to me that Jesus was not God, but merely his servant or something akin to that. Jesus always refers to God as his superior and never mentions that is is God. I've been looking it up and this appears to be unitarianism. Is this not obvious to anyone else?

>>20598832
>>>https://www.jw.org/

>>20598849
But how do Catholics rationalize it?

>>20598905
don't they always say light from light?

>>20598919
I honestly have no idea. I am completely new to reading the bible. These are just my thoughts after reading the gospels and some basic things like the trinity.

>>20573285
>>20573296
>>20573299
>>20573387
>>20573396
>>20573405
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>>20578914
god literally isn't real

>>20578930
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>>20586120
god isn't real
it's time to grow up and put away the toys

>>20586146
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>>20590853
the chump ain't not real

>>20590854
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>>20598932
god isn't real
grow up

>>20598932
You never read the Gospels.

>>20594743
Judges

>>20598832
https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/trinity

>>20598832
everyone knows Christ is God. the only ones who don't agree are literal cults like the JW.

>>20598832
two little examples
John 10:30 is as clear as you can get.
John 8:58 echoes God giving His name to Moses back in Exodus