/lit/ - Literature

Chapter 1: 17,729 words
Chapter 2: 14,665 words
Chapter 3: 16,575 words
Chapter 4: 9,551 words
Chapter 5: 25,871 words

June 5-6: Chapter 1
June 7-8: Chapter 2
June 9-10: Chapter 3
June 11: Chapter 4
June 12-14: Chapter 5

Telemachus: 7174 words; 1 day
Nestor: 4420 words; 1 day
Proteus: 5665 words; 2 days
Calypso: 5882 words; 1 day
Lotus-eaters: 6370 words; 1 day
Hades: 10917 words; 2 days
Æolus: 10046 words; 2 days
Læstrygonians: 12619 words; 2 days
Scylla and Charybdis: 11839 words; 3 days
Wandering Rocks: 12559 words; 3 days
Sirens: 12221 words; 4 days
Cyclops: 21259 words; 5 days
Nausicaa: 16652 words; 4 days
Oxen of the Sun: 20286 words; 6 days
Circe: 38319 words; 7 days
Eumæus: 22647 words; 4 days
Ithaca: 22403 words; 6 days
Penelope: 24059 words; 6 days

made a spreadsheet. correct me if i'm wrong

>>20513630
I'm a little behind, but will try and post my thoughts on 4 when I can. Let the brap party continue in Nora and Jim's honor.

Whatboro didboro weboro thinkboro ofboro chapter IV yesterday, Stephenbros?

>He seemed to feel a flood slowly advancing towards his naked feet and to be waiting for the first faint timid noiseless wavelet to touch his fevered skin.
Stephen knows he cannot best the tide of sin and temptation forever. After his moment of pure joy of confession he has since been haunted by the feeling that he merely confessed out of fear and not actual sorrow for sins committed.
>Have you ever felt that you had a vocation?
This was quite exciting for Stephen, even though he never felt worthy of the idea of himself being one that was looked up to. The rise continues, but not for long. He declines in mind here:
>And above all it had pleased him to fill the second place in those dim scenes of his imagining.
He could only imagine to take a secondary spot, not a leadership role.
>He longed for the minor sacred offices...
He mentioned, briefly the allure of knowing obscure, esoteric knowledge of the church, but it isn't enough.
>It was a grave and ordered and passionless life that awaited him, a life without material cares.
Incomingpanicattack.exe
He doesn't feel strong enough spiritually to take on priesthood, a few lines sum that up well.
Then came the inevitable epiphany. That classic fall to playful peer pressure. That dive into the water that finally opened his eyes.
>His soul had arisen from the grave of boyhood, spurning her grave-clothes. Yes! Yes! He would create proudly out of the freedom and power of his soul, as the great artificer whose name he bore, a living thing, new and soaring and beautiful, impalpable, imperishable.
Then he sees a woman and incel-walks the opposite direction lmao.
The nick-names his friends gave him were pretty kek-worthy as well
>Stephanos
>Stephanoumenos
>Stephaneforos
>Stephanos Dedalos
Particularly Stephaneforos being an oxen might be attributed to some piece of Stephen's character perhaps?
Can't wait to see his newly creative spirit inevitably wither and die.
Any of you anons have predictions for the last chapter?

>>20514146
I read the first three chapters of Ulysses before already, so I'm kinda cheating, but from what is implied, I think Stephen's mother dies. He renounces the Church completely.

>>20514146
here's what i copied into my notebook yesterday:

>waiting for the first faint timid noiseless wavelet to touch his fevered skin.

>eyes were still fixed calmly on the colorless sky.

>a mirthless mask reflecting a sunken day from the threshold of the college.

>A shadow, then, passed gravely over his consciousness. It was a grave and ordered and passionless life that awaited him.

>He would fall. He had not yet fallen but he would fall silently, in an instant. Not to fall was too hard, too hard: and he felt the silent lapse of his soul, as it would be at some instant to come, falling, falling but not yet fallen, still unfallen but about to fall.

>Even before they set out on life’s journey they seemed weary already of the way.

>giving utterance, like the voice of Nature herself, to that pain and weariness yet hope of better things which has been the experience of her children in every time.

>Did he then love the rhythmic rise and fall of words better than their associations of legend and colour?

>Words. Was it their colours?

>Or was it that . . . he drew less pleasure from the reflection of the glowing sensible world through the prism of a language manycoloured and richly storied than from the contemplation of an inner world of individual emotions mirrored perfectly in a lucid supple periodic prose?
These lines are very, very important to me. I'm going to keep these in mind as we continue to read Ulysses.

>. . . and as he strove to look at them with ease and indifference, a faint stain of personal shame and commiseration rose to his own face. Angry with himself he tried to hide his face from their eyes by gazing down sideways into the shallow swirling water under the bridge . . .
Extremely relatable.

>stained yellow or red or livid by the sea

>the cold infrahuman odour of the sea:

>old as man’s weariness

>He heard a confused music within him as of memories and names which he was almost conscious of but could not capture even for an instant;
I jumped up, quite literally, when I read this line; just a week ago I was trying to capture this EXACT same feeling while writing a short story, but Joyce outdid me and described the exact same experience I was having much more clearly and much more beautifully.

>Perhaps they had taken refuge in number and noise from the secret dread in their souls. But he, apart from them and in silence, remembered in what dread he stood of the mystery of his own body.

>a winged form flying above the waves and slowly climbing the air.

>An ecstasy of flight made radiant his eyes and wild his breath and tremulous and wild and radiant his windswept limbs.

>This was the call of life to his soul not the dull gross voice of the world of duties & despair, not the inhuman voice that had called him to the pale service of the altar. An instant of wild flight had delivered him & the cry of triumph which his lips withheld cleft his brain.

>to cry piercingly of his deliverance to the winds.

hoping the effortposting joycechads return once we begin ulysses

>>20514371
You know it bb

>>20514457
my heart quickened in response to this. got me lying on my stomach and giggling, my feet waving in the air

>>20513625
>for his biographers
My god what a cunt.

>>20514745
based as fuck in my opinion

>>20513625
>that massive symbolism spread
Why was Joyce like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ0ceusyFOw
IT'S HIM

>A second shrill whistle, prolonged angrily, brought one of the girls to the foot of the staircase.
>—Yes, father?
>—Is your lazy bitch of a brother gone out yet?
>—Yes, father.
>—Sure?
>—Yes, father.
>—Hm!
>The girl came back, making signs to him to be quick and go out quietly by the back. Stephen laughed and said:
>—He has a curious idea of genders if he thinks a bitch is masculine.


>—Good morning, everybody, said Stephen, smiling and kissing the tips of his fingers in adieu.
smug bastard

uhhhh

>>20515558
im a dumbass

BUMP

Will be posting my opinions on the first third of the final chapter tomorrow morning so keep up that reading, Joycebros

>>20513625
>https://www.26reads.com/author/james-joyce
is this site new? it's great

The portrait discussion was rather slow, I half-blame myself here because I didn't post anything lol. I was afraid of spoiling anything and will do a write-up tomorrow maybe. For Ulysses I'll do a write up after every episode like with Dubliners.

>>20517607
>Will be posting my opinions on the first third of the final chapter tomorrow morning so keep up that reading, Joycebros
looking forward to it!
>>20517722
yes! a great anon posted it in the previous thread. thanks again to whoever it was!
>>20517761
>I half-blame myself
it's alright, anon. life is very busy, and the pace for A Portrait was fairly high, if you aren't free all day like i am
>will do a write-up tomorrow maybe. For Ulysses I'll do a write up after every episode like with Dubliners.
looking forward to it, anon!

bump

>>20517761
I just couldn't fit time in to reread it so soon. I blame myself for that too. But I'm reading ahead on Ulysses because I'm such a slow reader and hopefully that will help me out.

>>20513704
Why were changes made to the original post by anon?

>>20519813
after much consideration, i decided to tighten the schedule just a little bit.
i took into consideration the slowness of discussion during the Portrait threads, and another anon's suggestions. we will take exactly 60 days to finish ulysses this way.

>>20513704
>æ

>>20519914
based

>>20519934
bæsed

>>20519914
>>20519934
>mfw æ instead of ae
>mfw œ instead of oe
>mfw & instead of et
>mfw w instead of vv

>>20513704
Why does Circe look so frightening? Am I about to get filtered?

>>20520013
NO, anon! we are going to experience together the greatness of joyce's work!..... we will all hold up each other!!! no one left behind!

but seriously, anon: this is what these threads are for; it's a lot less intimidating when you're not alone.

>>20513989
"kekk'd and brekk'd!"
(only finnegans wake chads know)

>mfw still haven't started reading the Odyssey

>>20521287
the odyssey is for pseuds and homosexuals

>>20521358
so you're saying we all should read it?

Finished Portrait today. It was a wonderful read. Plenty of memorable lines.
>It was that windless hour of dawn when madness wakes and strange plants open to the light and the moth flies forth silently
This one is probably my favourite. I find it very evocative and resonates with how I often feel in the early morning.

Some questions:
Was Joyce trying to suggest an homosexual attraction between Stephen and Cranly? A few of the lines made me think that, but I may just be projecting the modern propensity to make characters gay. Maybe Joyce was simply trying to emphasize Cranly's importance to Stephen.

What was the purpose of switching to journal entries at the end of the novel? I suppose it gives us a more in depth view of Stephen's thoughts, but his inner monologue has always been present. I thought it was interesting and a little strange to change the writing style right at the end.

>>20521405
In Ellman’s biography, he says Joyce gave Cranly homosexual subtext to signal that Cranly is a traitor and disingenuous friend i.e. one with a hidden agenda. Joyce was often quick to feel persecuted/betrayed and to make up stories to support that feeling

You can die after you read Ulysses.

>>20522245
I'll start preparing my suicide note

>>20513625
Couldn’t join you lads for Portrait but I’ve been re-reading Ulysses and will try and follow along with that. Can’t wait friends!

As Bloomsday is almost upon us I would ask anybody who hasn't read Ulysses to really get a feel for Stephen's personality, goals, attitude etc in the final chapter of Portrait. Have it as fresh as possible in your mind

notebook

>He drove their echoes even out of his heart with an execration; but, as he walked down the avenue and felt the grey morning light falling about him through the dripping trees and smelt the strange wild smell of the wet leaves and bark, his soul was loosed of her miseries.

>The rainladen trees

>His thinking was a dusk of doubt and selfmistrust, lit up at moments by the lightnings of intuition, but lightnings of so clear a splendour that in those moments the world perished about his feet as if it had been fireconsumed;

>His own head was unbent for his thoughts wandered abroad and whether he looked around the little class of students or out of the window across the desolate gardens of the green an odour assailed him of cheerless cellardamp and decay.

>the face of a severed head or death mask,

>Stephen, remembering swiftly how he had told Cranly of all the tumults and unrest and longings in his soul, day after day and night by night, only to be answered by his friend’s listening silence, would have told himself that it was the face of a guilty priest who heard confessions of those whom he had not power to absolve but that he felt again in memory the gaze of its dark womanish eyes.
Homosexuality

>But the nightshade of his friend’s listlessness seemed to be diffusing in the air around him a tenuous and deadly exhalation and he found himself glancing from one casual word to another on his right or left in stolid wonder that they had been so silently emptied of instantaneous sense until every mean shop legend bound his mind like the words of a spell and his soul shrivelled up sighing with age as he walked on in a lane among heaps of dead language.
Irish

>the dusky verses were as fragrant as though they had lain all those years in myrtle and lavender and vervain; but yet it wounded him to think that he would never be but a shy guest at the feast of the world’s culture

>He looked at it without anger; for, though sloth of the body and of the soul crept over it like unseen vermin, over the shuffling feet and up the folds of the cloak and around the servile head, it seemed humbly conscious of its indignity.

Side note:
>[Davin's story]
I've never been very interested in the lecherous, insensitive descriptions of women and their bodies in literature, but Joyce does it very, very well.

> a batlike soul waking to the consciousness of itself in darkness and secrecy and loneliness

> and for all this silent service it seemed as if he loved not at all the master and little, if at all, the ends he served.
literally me. goddamnit joyce

[I didn't copy the next line into my notebook, but I thought it was funny, and chisels out Stephen's identity quite a bit]
>—An old gentleman, said Stephen coarsely, who said that the soul is very like a bucketful of water.

>—I meant a different kind of lamp, sir, said Stephen
>—Undoubtedly, said the dean.
>—One difficulty, said Stephen, in esthetic discussion is to know whether words are being used according to the literary tradition or according to the tradition of the marketplace. I remember a sentence of Newman’s in which he says of the Blessed Virgin that she was detained in the full company of the saints. The use of the word in the marketplace is quite different. I hope I am not detaining you.
>—Not in the least, said the dean politely.
>—No, no, said Stephen, smiling, I mean...—
>—Yes, yes; I see, said the dean quickly, I quite catch the point: detain.
>He thrust forward his under jaw and uttered a dry short cough.
>—To return to the lamp, he said, the feeding of it is also a nice problem. You must choose the pure oil and you must be careful when you pour it in not to overflow it, not to pour in more than the funnel can hold.
>—What funnel? asked Stephen.
>—The funnel through which you pour the oil into your lamp.
>—That? said Stephen. Is that called a funnel? Is it not a tundish?
>—What is a tundish?
>—That. The... the funnel.

KEK. The dean is /lit/ personified

>>20521507
>, he says Joyce gave Cranly homosexual subtext to signal that Cranly is a traitor and disingenuous friend
This is complete shit though because the man who was Cranly irl was a good friend of Joyce's for his whole life, a man by the name of Byrne.

>>20524263
not him, but i do think there's homosexual undertones there.
one "peter byrne" is mentioned in the chapter, if i remember correctly, by the way. interesting

>>20524338
>but i do think there's homosexual undertones there.
This is something I keep tackling with, I have basically everything Joyce has ever written. Dubliners, Stephen Hero, Chamber Music, Portrait, Ulysses, Finnegans Wake, Ellman's biography, his complete letters, and more and I have never ever seen anything that has pointed to homosexuality. None from his friend's correspondence or comments either. It's like the one theory that just won't die. Like the whole "Shakespeare was gay/catholic/Hamlet" thing.

>>20524558
oh no i'm not saying JOYCE was gay. but cranly is described as effeminate, and stephen stops to think about it for a moment in chapter V

>Lynch smote himself sonorously on the chest and said:
>—Who has anything to say about my girth?

What are we reading June 15th?

>>20525692
resting, discussing, having sweaty fart sex,

>>20523354
Lol
Dean seems chill.

>>20524263
Hi, yes his friend Byrne was his closest friend at one point, but there was an incident which distanced them in this timeframe, and Joyce had to cope. Here is the section I was referencing

>>20527262
Forgot attachment

>>20521405
>>20521507

And here is the section describing Joyce’s imputation of Cranly’s homosexual intentions. Also, we have Joyce’s new friendship with Gogarty aka THE stately plump Buck Mulligan

Pointless question for the well-read anons of this thread: I missed 'A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man'. If I go out and buy Ulysses (being my first time reading Joyce), am I going to get filtered? How bad is it compared to Finnegan's Wake (which I've spent a little time on, and was horrified by)?

>>20527299
Joyce’s work got more and more difficult through his life. Ulysses is intermediate between the two you mentioned. Portrait helps most with the Stephen section of Ulysses (the first three chapters). You may want to read the iconic first section of Ulysses, skip sections 2 and 3 (seemingly designed to filter people), then start with Bloom’s entrance in section 4. It will be difficult, but worth it

>>20513625
hoping the effortposting joycechads return once we begin ulysses

>>20528056
I'm probably going to do a big post on Portrait later on today after work. I just ignored the thread really during Portrait because it's more for people reading at their own pace and spoiling shit is annoying. It's a novel after all.

Speaking for the future would anybody like to do a Shakespeare or Homer read along? I'd love a good Hamlet discussion or to work from The Illiad up to the Divine Comedy.

Houp-la!

can't lie. last chapter was pretty incomprehensible to me. my head's been very rattled for about a week. will re-read chapter five during the telemachiad.
i'd also like to retract the last (also the first) statement i posted here (>>20523354), by the way

>>20513625
>4 days to Ulysses!
yo what the fuck you sped up the whole group read you fucking niggers
I guess that it was just for starting Ulysses on bloomsday
What a redditor level take
I have shit to do and I can't catch up/won't be able to be in pair with you. sorry
I'll be on Ulysses on July

>>20528599 What? What do you mean "sped up?" This was the plan from the start.

>>20528328
>the Divine Comedy.
I wish there were more versions of Sibbald's translation of the Divine Comedy on Gutenberg. His endnotes have been extremely helpful in framing the context of the piece for me. Right now they only have his Inferno, but not Purgatorio or Paradisio.

OK on topic now, I'm going to read ahead on Ulysses and try to think bigly. It's hard balancing a reading group with IRL life but I want to be present for this one.

>Ulysses
https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/4300/
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ulysses_(1922)
https://www.fadedpage.com/showbook.php?pid=20181223
Have your pick.

Annotations, Guides, Summaries, Analyses:
https://www.joyceproject.com/
https://www.ulyssesguide.com
http://www.columbia.edu/~fms5/ulys.htm
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Annotations_to_James_Joyce%27s_Ulysses

Good luck, Joycebros.

>>20513625
can I participate if Ulysses is in German? I finally gave in a bought a really sexy edition after years of drooling over it.

>>20529261
post pics

I made a pdf of a map of Dublin along with the Gilbert Schema. You can print it out and use it as a bookmark.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/riquczfafmjmjsc/Ulysses_Map_and_Schema.pdf/file

>>20529724
It's amazing how much Dublin and Ireland love Joyce despite the fact that he was a self imposed exile who hated the church.

>>20529880
Do they? Never heard anyone here mention him when growing up. Maybe he's just being replaced with Sally Rooney.

>>20529902
Maybe just American tourists love Joyce and all of Ireland wishes he would fuck off so they can start more intercountry religious wars.

thank you so much, anon!

>>20529724
Very cool, thank you, kanye

Is there any bad Ulysses version or any of them is good? In English, btw.

>>20528753
No, the plan wasn't like this, it was more relaxed

>>20530577
Please check the archives.

>>20530626
no

>>20530061
1961 Random House or Gabler translations are good

>>20529624

>>20529624

Wake up, thread! Wake up, you fearful Jesuits. It's fucking time to discuss Telemachus.

>>20513625

That reminds me, I really should read Ulysses. I'm close to finally finishing Infinite Jest, and want to finish out the classic /lit/ meme trilogy. I read Dubliners and Portrait of the Artist years ago and quite liked them.

>>20513625
is there anything that explains this schema chart? Like Chapter one is about theology, the color is white and gold, the symbol is heir. Is there an essay or something that explains the theological references, every instance of white and gold, and every instance of the heir symbolism? There are summaries of Ulysses on the internet, and there are lots of websites hosting this structure, but I can't find anything that ties them together. Is that something that would be in an annotated edition, or does such a summary not exist?

Lot of beautiful language in this. I read chapter 1 ahead of time and reread it today at work. It's a very obtuse writing style if you're not used to it, but once you get into the flow, it's easy to follow. The big thing is seeing no denominators for when he switches from narrative to internal character voice, but I don't see it being an issue now that I'm used to it.

Brothers in Joyce I have finally finished Portrait. Did I get baited into reading a fictionalization of Confessions by Augustine? The similarities are quite uncanny. Does anyone feel that?

Some notes from the latter half of the chapter:
The conversation with Lynch was extremely entertaining and occupied my pen writing notes and highlighting. I feel like Stephen is a little bit of a pseud, like hes compensating for his (perceived) lack of common knowledge as a child.
>Towards dawn he awoke.O what sweet music!
Stephen loves the morning time so much, I vibe with it.
>His souls was all dewy and wet. Over his limbs in sleep pale cool waves of light had passed. He lay still, as if his soul lay amid cool waters, conscious of faint sweet music.
The whole paragraph there beautifully explaining the inexpiable feeling for first awakening.
How did we feel about the poem he wrote? Why did he never give it to Emma? He certainly thought of it shown by his brief conversation face to face with her.
>Asked me, was I writing poems? About whom? I asked her.

>Welcome, O life! I go to encounter for the millionth time the reality of experience and to forge in the smithy of my soul the uncreated conscience of my race.
>Old father, old artificer, stand me now and ever in good stead.
Ok so. This was the labyrinth. There was much mention of Stephen's namesake. He calls upon Daedalus to stand by him, to forge his was wings to lift him from the maze.
How do we explain his mood swings?
How do we explain the strong comparisons with Augustine?
How did we all like the novel?

P.S. Love you guys, cannot wait to begin Ulysses! Seeboro youboro fellowsboro tomorrowboro!

>>20532452
I’d never though to compare it to Augustine! Please say more. Structurally both books soar into the intellectual heights at the end.

With that being said, yes Stephen is an ostentatious and neurotic pseud. This will come up in Ulysses as Stephen’s main arc. First his over-intellectualized turmoil in the Telemachiad, then the disembodied intellect being a trap to navigate around in Scylla & Charybdis, and finally with Stephen finding the solution to his state via the spiritual father figure of Bloom.

>>20529880
Joyce loved Dublin? His entire body of work is based around Dublin. He said that when he died Dublin will be written on his heart.

>>20530061
>>20531125
Avoid Gabler. Literally any edition but that is good.

>Telemachus.
We start at the Martello tower in Sandycove where in resides Buck Mulligan, Stephen Dedalus and a fellow from Oxford who Mulligan known as Haines.
The chapter is dominated by Mulligan who in real life was pic related: Oliver St. John Gogarty, a most excellent poet, probably the best lyrical poet Ireland has ever produced and a well beloved figure in Dublin. His constant breaking into rhymes, quotations of Greek and Latin and rehearsing of Swinburne were exactly what he was like in real life. It is amazing that despite Joyce's attempt to protray him as this usurper who will backstab him we still see this very generous man.
>How did they end up in living in the tower?
Well for 18 pound a year they could live there for which Gogarty paid for (not Joyce as seen in the book) in order for Joyce, a man he would call "The bard" could finish writing Stephen Hero, the novel which would become Portrait of the Artist. I could go on about Gogarty for an entire thread's worth of posts but we'll move to the contents of the chapter.

We see a drastic change in Stephen's demenour, this cocky and self-assured young man is now passive and moody, in stark contrast to Mulligan. This is because Mr. Dedalus was taken down a peg over in Paris, he hath returned home to a dying mother and a wounded pride. The story of him refusing to pray at his mother's deathbed is not someting I can confirm off the top of my head so I'll avoid that. If you ever thought the story of thepanther was very strange well you'd be right. It actually happened believe it or not and here is Mr. Mulligan himself telling the story
>https://www.youtube.co/watch?v=XnbIyJK8l4Q
We see discussion over culture, Irish culture in particular which Mulligan wants to "Hellenise". Ireland is changing rapidly, it is beginning to blossom and people like Mulligan and Dedalus want to steer that towards a culture based on the classical Greek tradition and not one dominated by an institution be it the church or the crown.
The dialogue in Ulysses is fantastic, it really nails down those little quirks us Irish have, we have a lyrical quality to how we speak where our voices rise and fall like the tide when in full flow and it has been amazingly captured by Joyce.
>When I makes tea I makes tea, when I makes water I makes water
Stephen is Telemachus here, no doubt about it, we're going to have to wait for Odysseus to arrive though in another 3 chapters but truth be told the connection to Homer is more of a fun little side feature more than anything else.
This chapter is an amazing start to the story, so rich in dialogue, characters, content and imagery, my favourite personally, the story has already peaked.

bros, am I going to miss a lot by not having read portrait?

>>20533007
Honestly at most you'll miss a few references that have little consequence.

>>20533007
Found this maybe it helps you

https://infinitezombies.com/2010/07/02/how-much-other-stuff-do-i-have-to-read-in-order-to-understand-ulysses/

>>20513625
My copy of the Wordsworh edition of Ulysses arrived just this morning and I'm gonna start it now (while I wfh kek) cause I'm so hyped for my first Joyce. Happy reading anons

>>20533411
I'm a bit sad there's no annotations in the Wordsworh edition, but it was the cheapest copy I could find. Will be reading the Ulysses guide website for some guidance, if I can find the time

>>20520013
Circe is actually a fast and easy chapter despite its length. Oxen of the Sun is the toughest one

The International Bathing Alliance will be joining in on this one lads! We’re going to read this great book in the bathtub with the main focus on reading it, and not drowning in the secondary sludge and grime. Steered and spearheaded by the great Master Bather himself Scott Bradfield!

>Introduction
https://youtube.com/watch?v=y4g9txXFe9o

>Chapter One
https://youtube.com/watch?v=2lsUQ5ZE1K4

>>20532075
well. "gold" is present in the chapter, when stephen sees buck mulligan's shining tooth and thinks: Chrysostomos.

>>20532228
http://www.columbia.edu/~fms5/ulys.htm
Incomplete, but does exactly what you're looking for.

>>20532452
>There was much mention of Stephen's namesake.
At the end of Chapter IV there is a direct reference to Icarus and "Stephen's namesake"

>>20533567
Just realized: this comes across as very bitchy in tone! Please think of it as a wink-and-nod, something to let people who might not be too sure know what you're talking about

>>20513625
>tfw want to want to read ulysses; but I don't.

>>20520013
Circe is a blast to read

Read Telemachus. What an absolute ungodly cunt Fuck Mulligan is.

>>20534050
A second read through the chapter made me realize how funny he is. Always putting Stephen on blast and making fun of how serious and glum he is. It really is a shame how he stabs him in the back by kicking him out of the tower at the end of the chapter.

>>20534050
he's an ass but he's 100% right. guy doesn't kneel for his mother and then goes moping around in self-pity.

>>20534095
Oh I agree, and he's funny too. But what really ticked me off was his incessant bullshit - especially 'the ballad of joking Jesus.' Piss off, cunt.

Just started Ulysses why exactly do they think he killed his aunt? Is there skme truth to this or just a dark joke In the family

>>20534165
Mulligan says his own aunt claims that by refusing to kneel down and pray for his mother, Stephen killed her.

>>20520013
Difficulty to.know what is real

>>20534062
>at the end of the chapter.
Just for reference this was complete shit and was Joyce's headcanon. See my earlier post
>>20532991
The Mulligan slander is unholy

>>20533679
It's alright friend. His name is also some of the first dialogue of Ulysses. Perhaps that is the maze in which the wax wings shall save him from. His mother's death, (and his guilt over it?) being the labyrinth.

Does any anon know the full story of Daedalus and Icarus? Is it 'necessary' to know it before hand?

i'm rereading Ulysses but it's cool how some small things pop out to you. like how Buck Mulligan's face is described as 'equine' in his introduction. This same comparison with buck mulligan to a horse comes up again in Proteus.

>>20534262
They were imprisoned because Daedalus told Ariadne to give Theseus the golden string that allowed him to navigate the the Labyrinth. And then Daedalus built the wax wings, and Icarus soared too high, despite his father's warnings, and the sun melted his wings. And he fell.

Finished Telemachus. Notes and thoughts:
As I said here >>20534262 Stephen's name is brought up.
>You could have knelt down, damn it...There is something sinister in you.
Here we see the repercussions of his falling out with religion that was possibly alluded to in Portrait with the conversation with Cranly about Stephen's mother crying and begging him to come to Easter mass. Following up with you, >>20532507 (In my opinion a very Augustine-esque thing to do)
>Buck Mulligan suddenly linked his arm in Stephen's and walked with him round the tower...
Possibly he's just playing around but the fact that Stephen is consistently guided in a manner like this makes me think.
>O, it's only Dedalus whose mother is beastly dead....I am not thinking of the offense to my mother...Of the offense to me, Stephen answered.
No wonder he gets the fucking boot. It's weird how he has zero self-awareness. I get it that, as the reader, we know more about the situation than perhaps he does, but I mean the fact that he called out Cranly for projecting his perceived (future) loneliness onto Stephen before his departure but then will act this way towards Mulligan. I think that, yes, Cranly was saying those things because he'd miss Stephen, but Stephen in his cold, edgy way gave him the finger and asked him from whos perspective he was speaking. Tangential, I know, but a thought, nonetheless.
I think it's brilliant to have his zombie mother haunt his dreams. Hope that comes up more.
Mulligan's song was also hilarious.
>Usurper
So why did Stephen get the boot exactly? Why did he feel so betrayed? Why give over the key? Was Stephen so tired of Mulligan's antics? Mulligan was sure as hell tired of Stephens.
The time is now quarter to nine.
Coming straight off the chapter so if some of my ideas/assumptions/questions are retarded just disregard them.

Highlights:
>Woodshadows floated silently by through the morning peace...
That whole paragraph got highlighted.
>I am the boy
>That can enjoy
>Invisibility
Very much Stephen.
>Eyes, pale as the sea the wind had freshened, paler, firm and prudent. The seas' ruler, he gazed southward over the bay,empty save for the smokeplume of the mailboat, vague on the bright skyline, and a sail tacking by the Muglins.
I live for his descriptions of water, food, and emotion. I also love his random conjunctions of words like leaningplace.
>The void awaits surely all them that weave the wind: a menace, a disarming and a worsting from those embattled angels of the church, Michael's host, who defended her ever in the hour of conflict with their lances and their shields.

>>20534363
I'm >>20534394 thank you for the info!
>>20534281
Stately, plump, and equine lmao. It's really great how Joyce portrays characters with such accuracy using such inhuman language

Finished Telemachus and have mixed feelings so far. Seems over-indulgent with allusions and references - I knew it was going to be this way. Hopefully it grows on me, but I feel like I'm listening to a humanities student try to justify his choice of academic study.

>>20534448
I think a lot of that comes from Stephen's character being kind of pretentious. But if you think Telemachus is over-indulgent you're in for a time with some of the later chapters.

>>20532075
The schema is explained in Stuart Gilbert's James Joyce's Ulysses, the classic study of this book. I'd also recommend for first time readers the Bloomsday Book which has little analysis and is pure summary.

>>20532991
>Odysseus

>>20534062
I don't think Mulligan kicks Stephen out, he just wants to be the one in possession of the key despite the fact that Stephen pays the rent.

The first pages of Ulysses in the style of an ordinary writer.

>>20513704
Are we following this?

>>20534805
Lmao this is fucking horrible. How many times does Plump need to be said? Also the weird introductory paragraph is so unnecessary and also triggers my autism because the Martello tower would have been fairly isolated then.

>>20534845
Yes.

>The snotgreen sea. The scrotumtightening sea.

>The bard's noserag! A new art colour for our Irish poets: snotgreen. You can almost taste it, can't you?

>Etiquette is etiquette. He kills his mother but he can't wear grey trousers.

>— The mockery of it, he said contentedly, secondleg they should be.

>As he and others see me. Who chose this face for me? This dogsbody to rid of vermin. It asks me too.

>Palefaces: they hold their ribs with laughter, one clasping another, O, I shall expire! Break the news to her gently, Aubrey! I shall die! With slit ribbons of his shirt whipping the air he hops and hobbles round the table, with trousers down at heels, chased by Ades of Magdalen with the tailor’s shears. A scared calf’s face gilded with marmalade. I don’t want to be debagged! Don’t you play the giddy ox with me!
I think "debag" means "to pants someone," but also, the imagery evokes... castration. De-"bagged." I also like how the sentence is structured. Very rhythmic.

Can someone please tell me what "To ourselves… new paganism… omphalos" means exactly?

>He had spoken himself into boldness.

>I see them pop off every day in the Mater and Richmond and cut up into tripes in the dissecting room. It’s a beastly thing and nothing else. It simply doesn’t matter.

>Phantasmal mirth, folded away: muskperfumed.

>No, mother. Let me be and let me live.

I love how we are reminded of "the cloud [that] began to cover the sun slowly, shadowing the bay in deeper green" when "Stephen, still trembling at his soul’s cry, [hears] warm running sunlight and in the air behind him friendly words."

>— I’m melting, he said, as the candle remarked when… But hush. Not a word more on that subject.Is this about a dildo?

>He watched her pour into the measure and thence into the jug rich white milk, not hers. Old shrunken paps. She poured again a measureful and a tilly. Old and secret she had entered from a morning world, maybe a messenger. She praised the goodness of the milk, pouring it out. Crouching by a patient cow at daybreak in the lush field, a witch on her toadstool, her wrinkled fingers quick at the squirting dugs. They lowed about her whom they knew, dewsilky cattle. Silk of the kine and poor old woman, names given her in old times. A wandering crone, lowly form of an immortal serving her conqueror and her gay betrayer, their common cuckquean, a messenger from the secret morning. To serve or to upbraid, whether he could not tell: but scorned to beg her favour.

I'll stop posting these notes because it gets ridiculously long, but Telemachus is so dense and so well written. Just POETICALLY it sounds great. Just reading it out loud without stopping to think about what the words mean I have this great rhythmic sense. Joyce knows how to go from word to word, sentence to sentence, subject to subject, paragraph to paragraph, and so on. I wish I could write as freely and sincerely and competently as Joyce does.

>tfw you will never have a cute familiar squealing at your heels, trailing after you, calling Steeeeeeeeeeeephen

[joyce wojak stolen from another anon; tears added by me
Captcha: GASSY]

>>20535550
—Rather bleak in wintertime, I should say. Martello you call it?

—Billy Pitt had them built, Buck Mulligan said, when the French were on the sea. But ours is the omphalos.

Omphalos is what Buck calls the tower, so I imagine Stephen is associating Buck and the ideas he represents with the tower. Omphalos will also have some phallic imagery associated with in something that Buck will talk about in Oxen of the Sun, so that does kinda tie into the 'debagging' thing before.

>>20535550
I agree. This is my first Joyce so i might be a little more dazzled than most, but I'm amazed how casually he sometimes rhymes:
>in the gloomy domed livingroom of the tower Buck Mulligan's gowned form moved briskly about the hearth to and fro, hiding and revealing its yellow glow.
And also in the same paragraph theres these rhythmically sounding alliteration appear in one sentence:
>flagged floor
>cloud of coal-smoke
>fumes of fried greese

Howevet I'm frustrated that most references are totally unknown to me, and I can't bother to look them all up as it would be way too time consuming.

>>20535675
I apologise for the phone poast typos. Can't bother reading near my pc

I read Nestor already but I will wait until 8pm EST to start discussing. There's some good moments in here.

Anyone else find it disgusting that Stephen only takes a bath once a month?

>>20536783
He's a dirty nonbeliever so he does what it takes.

It's funny to me that out of all the books touted as anti-Semitic, Ulysses hasn't seen that much mainstream hate. We just got an entire chapter of Mr Deary saying "jews bad". It is ironic that the focus of the chapter is on money, which Jews are typically associated with, and the chapter ends with Mr Deary walking away with gold coin imagery on his personage. I think it's a commentary on usury in people not being strictly aligned to Jews. The stream of consciousness got a little harder to follow this time, but I let myself just be lost until a thread picked me back up again. It makes for an easier and digestible read.

I'm also surprised at how fast I finished that chapter. Took me half an hour while I cooked.

>>20536783
it probably wasn't that odd at the time (in Dublin). I think part of what how this book is similar to the Odyssey is how it appeals in the same way. It revels not in plot but in revealing details of what was important to people in that particular time.

>>20536783
It probably wasn't that odd at the time (in Dublin). I think part of what how this book is similar to the Odyssey is how it still appeals in a similar way. It revels not in plot but in revealing details of what was important to people in that particular time.

>>20537706
>It probably wasn't that odd at the time (in Dublin).
I imagine it would be kind of weird otherwise Buck wouldn't have made fun of him for it. Though idk how often people bathed back then.

>>20537134
>It's funny to me that out of all the books touted as anti-Semitic, Ulysses hasn't seen that much mainstream hate. We just got an entire chapter of Mr Deary saying "jews bad". It is ironic that the focus of the chapter is on money, which Jews are typically associated with, and the chapter ends with Mr Deary walking away with gold coin imagery on his personage.
Why would Ulysses get blasted for it though? The main character is a Jew lmao

>>20536783
>>20537134
>>20537706
From the Wikipedia page for Buck Mulligan:
>Contemporaries of Joyce and Gogarty, on reading Ulysses, differed over the extent to which Buck Mulligan was a fair and accurate portrayal of Oliver Gogarty. Gogarty himself, though he held largely negative views on Joyce's work, once wrote positively of his role in Ulysses: "When [Joyce] paid me the only kind of compliment he ever paid, and that is to mention a person in his writings, he described me shaving on the top of the tower. In fact, I am the only character in all his works who washes, shaves, and swims."

>>20538100
God damn Joyce must have been one smelly faggot.

>Telemachus
The son of great stallion-breaking Odysseus. Compared to his father later on as having similar voices.
Stephen has become the kinch, or rather, is living on the kinch.
>Nestor
>Fabled by the daughters of memory. And yet it was in some way if not memory fabled it. A phrase, then, if impatience, thud of Blake's wings of excess. I hear the ruin of all space, shattered glass and toppling masonry, and time one livid final flame. What's left us then?
Possibly finding disillusionment in nostalgia? In teaching?
>...They knew: had never learned nor ever been innocent. All. With envy he watched their faces.
Reminiscing of his older days as a clueless young boy?
>Ugly and futile: lean neck and tangled hair and a stain of ink, a snail's bed...
Looking into the mirror now, aren't we, Stephen? Helping a poor weak little boy with glasses such as he was such as he was once. This he recognizes, but cannot reach, cannot touch for a better look.
>Like him was I....My childhood bends beside me. Too far for me to lay a hand there once or lightly. Mine is far and his secret as our eyes.

What is the significance of this chapter, fellows? Other than Stephen meeting up with the boyhood version of himself, getting paid, and hearing le jew bad remarks?

Highlights:
>Weep no more, woeful shepherd, weep no more
>For Lycidas, your sorrow, is not dead,
>Sunk though he be beneath the watery floor. . .
Much mention of a watery grave. Perhaps Stephen is thinking of his mother in the back of his mind. She did not bother him this chapter I don't think.
>Across the page the symbols moved in grave morrice, in the mummery of their letters, wearing quaint caps of squares and cubes...
The whole paragraph.
>Their sharp voices cried about him on all sides: their many forms closed round him, the garish sunshine bleaching the honey of his illdyed head.
>May I trespass on your valuable space.
The consonance in that paragraph is entertaining.
>The harlot's cry from street to street
>Shall weave old England's winding street.

>History, Stephen said, is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake.

Sidenote: Joyce once again mentions Stephen's soul as a 'her'. It was something I caught repeatedly in "Portrait" however nobody said anything about it. I enjoy the connotations it brings, making the soul actually feel as if it was a vessel like car or ship. Something that bears you across great distances and is reliable, dependable.

How do you all feel about that? How do you feel about today's chapter?
>>20535684
Looking forward to your analysis, anon.
>>20535675
This is also my first Joyce. Well, I read Portrait but that was merely a few days ago so its all still quite new to me. I live the alliteration and assonance and consonance he weaves so seamlessly into his narrative. Its quite a treat.

>>20538871
>She did not bother him this chapter I don't think.
He seems to have been thinking about the fox riddle.

idk whats going on half the time whilst reading ulysses but I'm having fun

>>20538984
That is great! It's alright if you don't immediately understand what's going on. This is about us reading together, and about havng fun with the experience that Joyce has designed for us.

>>20538984
I’m just glad you’re here, buddy. Maybe grab a pen and piece of paper and write down some questions you might have and we can talk about it! Like the other anon said, it’s all about doing it together and having fun!

>>20533452
We are commencing the second chapter of Ulysses with our great Master Bather Scott Bradfield from the watery depths of The Bathtub!

> https://youtube.com/watch?v=17jNBCETYCU

>>20538871
>What is the significance of this chapter, fellows? Other than Stephen meeting up with the boyhood version of himself, getting paid, and hearing le jew bad remarks?
If I understand my mythology correctly, using Wikipedia that is, and using the title of this chapter as a launch point, Nestor was an overtly hospitable king who gave good advice but couldn't help but boast about his past experiences. It's clear Mr Deasy is Nestor and he does talk a lot about himself and his past. He's also associated a lot with money and gold, being a king and owning a gold shield. I don't think Deasy gives any good advice though. He tells Stephen to buy a shilling box knowing that he's broke, for example, then lectures him on how money is power. So maybe the title of Nestor is tongue in cheek, since Deasy gives bad advice and seems to be a bad gentleman, whereas Nestor was hospitable and gave great advice.
Aside that, there's some good battlefield imagery too, tying in Nestor's place in the Trojan War and the Odyssey.
>Again: a goal. I am among them, among their battling bodies in a medley, the joust of life. You mean that knockkneed mother's darling who seems to be slightly crawsick? Jousts. Time shocked rebounds, shock by shock. Jousts, slush and uproar of battles, the frozen deathspew of the slain, a shout of spearspikes baited with men's bloodied guts.
>— Not at all, Mr Deasy said as he searched the papers on his desk. I like to break a lance with you, old as I am.

also i'd like to say when i first read nestor (in february) i jumped for joy when i got the reference to william blake's auguries of innocence. never have felt smarter than i did in that moment

>>20536783
From the Ithaca chapter:
>his [Stephen's] last bath having taken place in the month of October of the preceding year
He hasn't had a bath for eight months

>>20539701
Should be noted however, that a bath was different from just washing. Most would wash themselves in the morning in the sink and Stephen would swim quite often as well. Stephen was clean shaven after all

>>20539701
>>20540101
That greasy ass nigga better have washed his junk and ass too. I don't know how those Europeans do it, going months without a proper cleaning. If I go a day without a shower I feel like grease.

>England is in the hands of the jews. In all the highest places: her finance, her press. And they are the signs of a nation's decay. Wherever they gather they eat up the nation's vital strength.

>>20540101
>>20540344
Micks are fucking stupid like that. They think because they're pale as death that they can go around smelling like mayonnaise.

>>20540500
Slander. My friends and I shower together daily.

>>20513625
>start reading this last month along with my daily short stories
>read 100 pages then finish a different novel in a single day
>have finished 3 different novels and I'm only halfway done with Ulysses
I am getting filtered. I have to read this so slow because he's doing things I have never seen before. Damn brothers this is difficult.

>>20540830
It’s okay, we are here for you. Would you be opposed to falling back on your reading to be at same pace as us? At least that way any questions you may have would be relevant to that days reading.

>>20541055
What page are we supposed to be on today and tomorrow? Percentage-wise I guess.

>>20541540
Jun 17-Nestor (second chapter)
Jun 18,19-Proteus.

>>20541780
Oh okay I will slow down then I was already at the advertisement place.

>>20539347
Many, many of the references will be tongue and cheek. Even the central one of this ordinary Jewish cuckold as the Odysseus (and Christ) figure is deeply ironic

>be james joyce
>be a famous author
>be from ireland
>have a wife and kids
>decide to move your family to italy to pursue your writing career
>soon find out that italy is a shithole and your family hates it
>decide to move back to ireland
>soon find out that ireland is a shithole and your family hates it
>realize that you will never be happy no matter where you go or what you do

I'd like to say I read Proteus in Feb and I got my ass kicked (took a bunch of notes that I might post later). I'm reading it again now, and I'm standing sorta strong, just... enjoying the prose. Let me describe this chapter in blurbspeak (very sincere blurbspeak, however): Beautiful, funny, dense, and complex. Most of all, genuinely genuinely ENJOYABLE to read. I'm having FUN. Skimming through annotations where I don't quite understand and not getting too hung up over trying to wrangle with the absolute beast this chapter is.
Protip: Read faster with an Irish accent.
Here's a funny line:
>Cousin Stephen, you will never be a saint. Isle of saints. You were awfully holy, weren't you? You prayed to the Blessed Virgin that you might not have a red nose. You prayed to the devil in Serpentine avenue that the fubsy widow in front might lift her clothes still more from the wet street. O si, certo! Sell your soul for that, do, dyed rags pinned round a squaw. More tell me, more still!! On the top of the Howth tram alone crying to the rain: naked women! What about that, eh?

Does anybody listen to music while reading? I'm listening to Chet Baker (don't laugh) playing "I Should Have Told you" (don't laugh).
I love you all! AND I FUCKING LOVE ULYSSES! I LOVE PROTEUS! AHHHHHH!

>20543681
>decide to move back to ireland
>soon find out that ireland is a shithole and your family hates it
>realize that you will never be happy no matter where you go or what you do
He never moved back to Ireland after 1904 what are you on about?

>>20543681
I had a talk with an Indian co-worker this week and he was shocked that America actually has poverty, child kidnappings, corruption and all that. Welcome to planet Earth I guess.

>>20543795
not him, but he did return to dublin later for a very short while in 1912
i don't know how accurate the greentext is, though

>sit down with Proteus over breakfast
>immediately get up for a dictionary

>>20544438
>ineluctable
>oh boy
>ctrl+c
>ctrl+t
>ctrl+v
>ah. i see!
>ineluctable modality
>ctrl+c
>ctrl+t
>

>Remember your epiphanies on green oval leaves, deeply deep, copies to be sent if you died to all the great libraries of the world, including Alexandria? Someone was to read them there after a few thousand years, a mahamanvantara. Pico della Mirandola like. Ay, very like a whale. When 32one reads these strange pages of one long gone one feels that one is at one with one who once...
C-Couldn't be me...

>be me
>be 22 in the year 2904
>fan of stephen dedalus
>discovered him a mahamanvantara later
>tfw born in the wrong generation
>meet 9/10 qt3.14 in college
>find out she's a fan of stephen dedalus too
>isthiswhatdreamsaremadeof.mp3
>"oh what's your favourite novel of his?"
>"ummm i think i like Q lol"
>Q
>this bitch likes Q
>not W
>doboro youboro evenboro dedalusboro bitchboro.png
>of course this blonde femoid bitch likes Q
>i stifle my disgust
>"oh i like Z"
>"i haven't read that one"
>get up in disgust and leave immediately
never talking to a woman ever again.

>>20544509
these are my favourite lines in this chapter. so funny and relatable (lol)
>Reading two pages apiece of seven books every night, eh? I was young. You bowed to yourself in the mirror, stepping forward to applause earnestly, striking face. Hurray for the Goddamned idiot! Hray! No-one saw: tell no-one.
laugh-out-loud funny.

>>20543761
Chet Baker is great. I don’t listen to music while reading anymore, unless there are other distractions/noise. I listen to classical-baroque specifically

>>20513625
I've been spending an hour reading interpretations and annotations in the first paragraph of Proteus. I'm being filtered to hard bros but learning a bit about Aristotle and Boheme has been fun. It's also utterly satisfying to get some of his

>>20544438
>>20544473
haha

previous thread
>>20449136

>>20544518
Thomas Pynchon is the pseudonym of Stephen Dedalus

>Touch me. Soft eyes. Soft soft soft hand. I am lonely here. O, touch me soon, now. What is that word known to all men? I am quiet here alone. Sad too. Touch, touch me.
All women, please apply to be touched via the reply button

Day 2 of Proteus. How are we hanging? Is anyone still reading?

Bump
A little behind, will catch up tomorrow

>>20546647
Just finished it. Enjoyed going throught he prose but jesus I was so lost on 80% of it. Only thing I could think of it was Stephen being extremely dramatic and pretentious over every single thing he was doing and seeing, Ill be waiting for anyone else's analysis/interpretations.

>>20547319
I felt the same way anon. I have no idea what I'm reading for most of it, but I am enjoying it nonetheless.
I'm not sure if taking the time to understand what I'm reading will take away from the experience of reading the book or not.

>>20547319
>>20547359
I interpret a lot of it as Stephen's after-work musings as he dreads going to visit his aunt. I often do this after work when I go for a walk. He's daydreaming and a lot of it sounds like he's in a real uncomfortable place emotionally. He's definitely bitter. The JoyceProject link I've found has been most useful for me when I want to copy and share sections of the text, as well as get through the nine hundred French and Latin phrases in here.
The best parts so far for me have been tracing the train of thought through the abstract wordage, like:
>A point, live dog, grew into sight running across the sweep of sand. Lord, is he going to attack me?
Straightforward. He thinks a dog running at him is going to attack. It's a natural instinct I'd think most of us would instinctively feel but not put to words.
>Respect his liberty. You will not be master of others or their slave. I have my stick. Sit tight.
What amounts to "he ain't bothering nobody", but he's still wary. He has his stick and hopes not to use it, so he opts to be still and unseen.
>From farther away, walking shoreward across from the crested tide, figures, two. The two maries. They have tucked it safe among the bulrushes. Peekaboo. I see you. No, the dog. He is running back to them. Who?
And two new people who don't see him but whom he sees first. Wonders who they are.
Untangling this kind of stream of thought is enjoyable for me.

>Galleys of the Lochlanns ran here to beach, in quest of prey, their bloodbeaked prows riding low on a molten pewter surf. Dane vikings, torcs of tomahawks aglitter on their breasts when Malachi wore the collar of gold. A school of turlehide whales stranded in hot noon, spouting, hobbling in the shallows. Then from the starving cagework city a horde of jerkined dwarfs, my people, with flayers’ knives, running, scaling, hacking in green blubbery whalemeat. Famine, plague and slaughters. Their blood is in me, their lusts my waves. I moved among them on the frozen Liffey, that I, a changeling, among the spluttering resin fires. I spoke to no-one: none to me.

This is a passage that I really liked from Proteus. This sort of alienation from nationality or heritage is a very relatable theme, and I think is something that really hits home today especially in our globalized culture where feeling a connection to any national history is becoming harder and harder. I googled this passage and I found an interesting article about it that's worth a read, imo: https://www.bloomsandbarnacles.com/blog/2019/07/06/decoding-dedalus-galleys-of-the-lochlanns

Also, interesting to note the word 'changeling' here, this is also the same word that is used to describe Rudy at the end of Circe

Here's my first-read analysis and attempt to summarise what happened in Proteus: don't read this is you haven't finished the chapter yet (no huge spoilers in this chapter, so I won't add the spoiler tag):

For me who didn't read Portrait, this chapter reveals a lot about Stephen's personality: highly intelligent and self centered and is stuck in his dead a lot, almost to a point of neuroticism. He seems to be an idealist who wants to be a great artist but his mental image of himself just doesn't quite like up with his actual self. He doubts his senses, considering if Aristotle was right that sight not being a multimodal perception, but works on its own to immediately see the material world as it truly is (the body comes first, not the translucency), or if Boheme was right about his theory of sight being a portal into a transcendent state of the divine. You get a feel that these are things he reflects a lot about. He's genuenly intelligent and well read but suffers insecurities (probably daddy issues hence him representing Telemachus, a son looking for his father. I'm not sure I followed from previous chapters about the relationship with his dad, but it's clear he craves a father figure. He's also insecure about his intellect hence his "reading 2 pages from 7 books" line, and having a lot of pride and need to praise.
He sporadically mentions his experience in Paris but I didn't really get what he was trying to convey here... Maybe an anon can help me out? Certainly that he didn't write any books that he wanted to, at least.
He's feeling lonely and craving a woman's touch. Lastly he can't get back in the tower and needs somewhere to spend the night.

I had a hard time mostly understanding all about the memories of his family, many names were introduced with dialogue that seemed nonsensical to me. Anyone know what they were even saying and what it meant?

>>20548016
>stuck in his dead a lot
I meant stuck in his mind. Weird Freudian slip, must have thought about him thinking about his dead mom a lot

oh boy where's the smart crossdressing anon when we need him?

>>20547498
>https://www.bloomsandbarnacles.com/blog/2019/07/06/decoding-dedalus-galleys-of-the-lochlanns
Very enjoyable read anon. I'm baffled by Joyce's knowledge and imagination

I really want to start writing long pieces on Ulysses chapters but I honestly think I would end up doing more harm and end up influencing people's opinions and views on each episode. I'll instead open the offer to anybody who has questions to just reply to this and I'll answer directly. I'm that Irishfag who did all those Dubliner write-ups and shit about Parnell and Gogarty too. So literally anything in relation to Joyce I should be able to answer.

>>20548483
i'm interested in the obscenity, antisemitism, and orientalism in joyce's work. could you talk a little about those? thanks!
I personally would appreciate the long posts, but that's alright.

>>20548483
Isn't the point of this thread to share insights? Are we merely to read in silence and withhold our opinions as to not "influence others opinions and views"? What's the point of this thread, then or to have a discussion - of you don't even start one? I just read Potreus and want to discuss is but lack of posts and viewpoints make it difficult. I gave some views and asked questions that I wondered about but got 0 engagement cause the thread is so slow. Don't anons choose to read your posts of your analyses if they want to know more? If they don't want their impressions or views spoiled of thr chapters they can actively choose to not read your posts. Mind you I'm not speaking directly to you, but also the other anons that are withholding their insights

>>20548016
>He sporadically mentions his experience in Paris but I didn't really get what he was trying to convey here... Maybe an anon can help me out? Certainly that he didn't write any books that he wanted to, at least.
At the end of Portrait he leaves Ireland to become an artist in Paris, just like Joyce did IRL.
>He's genuenly intelligent and well read but suffers insecurities (probably daddy issues hence him representing Telemachus, a son looking for his father. I'm not sure I followed from previous chapters about the relationship with his dad, but it's clear he craves a father figure. He's also insecure about his intellect hence his "reading 2 pages from 7 books" line, and having a lot of pride and need to praise.
This also comes from Portrait, where his father goes from an esteemed man to a man who is constantly moving because his finances are either in shambles or are tempestuous. In Portrait he's also constantly challenged by others about his choice of life path and at the end he has a long talk with Cranly about a lot of things related to his life philosophy. So I can see Stephen being insecure because he's always having to defend his intelligence and position, and while that may be a position easy to defend for older men who are confident, Stephen at the time was barely college aged.

>>20547408
Yeah that actually makes sense for me, thanks man.

can we talk a little bit about rhythm in joyce's work? i subvocalize in an iris while reading joyce because it's so goddamn fun to feel the rise and fall of his language, but rhythm isn't necessarily restricted to prosody, of course, and i wanted to figure out where else we can find rhythm in joyce's work, and more broadly, literature.

>>20549613
in an irish accent* wow

>>20549613
You would love Finnegans Wake. That book pretty much forces you to read it in an Irish accent.

>>20549973
i've tried finnegans wake and i loved loved loved it!!! but when i first saw "bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk" i had 2 immediate reactions:
1. joyce was a genius and i'm a dumbass
2. joyce is replicating on page exactly the sort of prose i have always wanted to write

and then i began crying because it was far beyond me, and always will be for as long as i live

>>20543761
This is what I plan to listen to while reading tomorrow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZKGy1bRIKs
See you guys! Looking forward to Calypso and meeting literature's most famous Jew!

What’s up fellows. Been slacking on the analysis for this chapter but I will pick it back up again for Calypso, you have my word! How are we enjoying the book? I love the way Joyce litters the prose with alliteration and as other anons have said, how his sentences flow in such a unique way and the way he describes things almost smack you on the head that you didn’t think of that thing in that way.

Does anyone have a fav line or paragraph they’d like to share? Proteus was lousy with amazingly dense thought-provoking language.

Reply to this if you’re excited for Mr Bloom tomorrow!

>>20551137
>Time surely would scatter all
>thought through my eyes
>Has all vanished since? If I open and am for ever in the black adiaphane.
>When one reads these strange pages of one long gone one feels that one is at one with one who once
>he rises from the bed of his wife's lover's wife
>seesoo, hrss, rsseeiss, ooos
>I zmellz de bloodz odz an Iridzman.
>There all the time without you: and ever shall be, world without end.
Just some from the last time I read Proteus.

And thus begins Calypso. I'm tackling it now. How many anons we have still reading? These threads are a lot slower than I was expecting them to be. Was Don Quixote like this too?

>Somewhere in the east: early morning: set off at dawn. Travel round in front of the sun, steal a day's march on him. Keep it up for ever never grow a day older technically. Walk along a strand, strange land, come to a city gate, sentry there, old ranker too, old Tweedy's big moustaches, leaning on a long kind of a spear. Wander through awned streets. Turbaned faces going by. Dark caves of carpet shops, big man, Turko the terrible, seated crosslegged, smoking a coiled pipe. Cries of sellers in the 44streets. Drink water scented with fennel, sherbet. Dander along all day. Might meet a robber or two. Well, meet him. Getting on to sundown. The shadows of the mosques among the pillars: priest with a scroll rolled up. A shiver of the trees, signal, the evening wind. I pass on. Fading gold sky. A mother watches me from her doorway. She calls her children home in their dark language. High wall: beyond strings twanged. Night sky, moon, violet, colour of Molly's new garters. Strings. Listen. A girl playing one of those instruments what do you call them: dulcimers. I pass.
Oh yeah. That was nice.

The best part about this chapter was seeing how Leopold thinks about his daughter. He knows she's growing up to be a girl and that means she'll be wanted by boys. Heck he's seen it already as she's growing into her body and he knows it's useless to strain against it.
There's a lot of age imagery in this chapter. Maybe it's time imagery. But Leopold thinks of when he met Molly when they were young, and of his first child Rudy, and of the old Jew homeland that is (allegedly) older than any other civilization. And he thinks of his daughter, again. He even checks out the girl with the fat ass in the butcher's shop, someone young and trim, not large like Molly who has great tits but I think is implied to not be as pretty as she used to be.

Any other thoughts so far?

>>20548569
>i'm interested in the obscenity, antisemitism, and orientalism in joyce's work. could you talk a little abouit those?

Let me focus on antisemitism, I think it's the most relevant and most interesting. Joyce saw the Jews as the protagonist of western civilisation and thus came Mr. Bloom. Antisemitism was common among the more religously inclined, zealots basically and those die-hard nationalists and so the Jews could sometimes be in for a tough time in Ireland. Dublin used to have a thriving Jewish community called Little Jeruseluem which has vanished now for but Joyce those Jews would have ran many shops and been central to the city. When antisemitism is brought up in his works it's used to show that somebody is basically a retard.
>>20548645
See the problem is that I've noticed a lot of the posters here have never read Joyce or Ulysses in particular before. If I was to write big essays breaking everything down it just suppresses opinions and makes people less inclined to come up with their own (probably very valid) theories and ideas. I don't want to force my views on people, even indirectly.

>Calypso
Look at how disgusting Bloom is, everything is physical to him in his world. Compare then to Stephen, a man occupied by thought.

>>20552043
I started it today too. Most of /lit/ are amerifats so the discussion might pick up around their waking hours, and of course when people have started to finish the chapter.

>>20553105
>When antisemitism is brought up in his works it's used to show that somebody is basically a retard.
Doesn't Mulligan make "antisemitic" jokes too? For example, The wandering jew, Buck Mulligan whispered with clown's awe. Did you see his eye? He looked upon you to lust after you. I fear thee, ancient mariner. Seems a little odd-- is Joyce calling Malachi a retard? Or do you exclusively mean antisemitism that is laced with malice?

>>20553105
>everything is physical to him in his world. Compare then to Stephen, a man occupied by thought.
Good catch. I had picked up on the difference but I didn't really put it into words well enough.

>>20553910
this is also clear in how Stephen and Blood respectively hear the sounds of the church bell ringing:

Stephen translates in his mind the sounds into the catholic prayer for the dying (in latin), which shows his potent imagination, while Bloom hears the bells as they actually sound: "Heigho! Heigho!"

>Cruel. Her nature. Curious mice never squeal. Seem to like it.
I think "her" might refer to Molly. Maybe Bloom is thinking about how he likes being dominated? Sexuality? Sexual aberration? Femdom mommy dommy kink?

>>20554142
Makes sense, and "Curious mice never squeal. Seem to like it." might be referring to himself, as he seems both like a curious and passive person

>>20554231
>might be referring to himself
exactly!
>as he seems both like a curious and passive person
i read the sentence as "[It's] curious [how] mice never squeal," rather than "[Mice that are curious] never squeal."

>Dead: an old woman's: the grey sunken cunt of the world.

is bloom a paedophile?

>>20554662
No? Why would you think that

ENTER

>>20553105
>Joyce saw the Jews as the protagonist of western civilisation
Fascinating anon, didn’t know that. Puts much of Ulysses into perspective.

When Bloom shouts out, “the kidney” I legitimately laughed out loud. Much like in Dubliners, Joyce captures simple human emotions perfectly through the written word.

>>20553518
The wandering Jew is an old bible trope, or reference. It's still a somewhat common saying among older people for people who don't settle down or drift about.
>>20556134
I'm currently trying to synthesise that notion with the Oddyssey or Greek history in some sort of way. There has to be a connection between them in my mind. I think it has something to do with the Jew being the protagonist for the montheistic western culture, or Christian (Jesus was a Jew as we'll be reminded of in a few episodes time) while the Greeks were the protagonists for the the culture the old polytheistic world. Where Odysseus, sorry Ulysses comes into it I'm not sure. If he had based it off the Aeniad I would be laughing but it's not so.

Why is it so slow in here? Did all you readers eat lotus petals or something? Hahaha, lotus petals. Because we... We're on... Ah, forget it...

>>20556974
You made me chuckle at least

Bump

>>20556974
we probably lost some people on ineluctably modality of the visible

>Wonderful organisation 67certainly, goes 82like clockwork. Confession. Everyone wants to. Then I will tell you all. Penance. Punish me, please. Great weapon in their hands. More than doctor or solicitor. Woman dying to. And I schschschschschsch. And did you chachachachacha? And why did you? Look down at her ring to find an excuse. Whispering gallery walls have ears. Husband learn to his surprise. God's little joke. Then out she comes. Repentance skindeep. Lovely shame. Pray at an altar. 79Hail Mary and Holy Mary. Flowers, incense, candles melting. Hide her blushes. Salvation army blatant imitation. Reformed prostitute will address the meeting. How I found the Lord. Squareheaded chaps those must be in Rome: they work the whole show. And don't they rake in the money too? Bequests also: to the P.P. for the time being in his absolute discretion. Masses for the repose of my soul to be said publicly with open doors. Monasteries and convents. The priest in the Fermanagh will case in the witnessbox. No browbeating him. He had his answer pat for everything. Liberty and exaltation of our holy mother the 73church. The doctors of the church: they mapped out the whole theology of it.
Man, Joyce really fucking hates Catholics.

Lots of good lines in here. Aside from above I'll post a few good favorites. And the joyceproject website is helping a lot, even though I'm more reading just to enjoy myself than study it thoroughly. It does help with keeping me on track.

>The far east. Lovely spot it must be: the garden of the world, big lazy leaves to float about on, cactuses, flowery meads, snaky lianas they call them. Wonder is it like that. Those Cinghalese lobbing about in the sun in dolce far niente, not doing a hand's turn all day. Sleep six months out of twelve. Too hot to quarrel. Influence of the climate. Lethargy. Flowers of idleness. The air feeds most. Azotes. Hothouse in Botanic gardens. Sensitive plants. Waterlilies. Petals too tired to. Sleeping sickness in the air. Walk on roseleaves. Imagine trying to eat tripe and cowheel.
I really like how Joyce captures the ethereal feeling of the hot East and SEA countries. It makes me want to reread Siddhartha.

>She stood still, waiting, while the man, husband, brother, like her, searched his pockets for change. Stylish kind of coat with that roll collar, warm for a day like this, looks like blanketcloth. Careless stand of her with her hands in those patch pockets. Like that haughty creature at the polo match. Women all for caste till you touch the spot.
He's got good tastes in women, too. Haughty is such a sexy word here in the context of the upper class lady he's describing.

>I hear the voice of Nathan who left his father to die of grief and misery in my arms, who left the house of his father and left the God of his father.
>Every word is so deep, Leopold.
This isn't strictly amazing prose wise but it really does capture, for me, a perfect feeling of guilt and misery.

Is his letter from Martha about his own affair with a distant woman? I think I caught on to that, they were a little smutty in their letters, but I couldn't be sure.

Bit late with it, fellows but I've piled the thoughts.

>>20555961
kek
>>20556195
Also laughed
>>20556974
Engorged on lotus, never going back Also, anon, that's tomorrow.
>>20557564
There was also the part where he remembered someone making fun of the priest's robes with some I.N.R.I (Iron Nails Rammed In) instead of Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum. (In Lotus-Eaters, I'm sorry.)

CALYPSO;
Bloom the degenerate jew who loves fat, dirty, old women and good deals on pre-owned mattresses. Ah yes, Bloom, Joyce's outlet for all the disgusting fetish bullshit that goes through his head. I'm very interested in this calling card.
Bloom takes pleasure in the strangest shit. This dirty woman at the butchery, then his delight at her disdain of him.
>The sting of disregard glowed to weak pleasure within his breast.
I also enjoyed the touch of the mail the second time round.
>Mrs. Marion Bloom. Not Mrs. Leopold Bloom.
Him doing the laundry, fixing her tea, getting told to hurry up. All of it hilariously submissive. Then in almost a Stephen-esque manner he whips out French and fancy word as if that would impress anyone, actually, he couldn't remember how to pronounce 'Voglio' so...
Back to degeneracy imagining his daughter.
>A wild piece of goods. Her slim legs running up the stair case. Destiny. Ripening now. Vain: very.
He is almost self-aware of where his mind leads, knowing he cannot stop her having sex.
>Will happen, yes. Prevent. Useless: can't move. Girl's sweet light lips. Will happen too. He felt a flowing qualm spread over him. Useless to move now. Lips kissed. Full gluey woman's lips.
Poor Stephen is haunted by the bell and our Mr. Bloom hears only song.
>Heigho! Heigho!

So this basically sets up Bloom. We see here the things that drive's bloom as a character. Sex, shit, masochistic tendencies and money.
>Dirty women, young women, his own daughter.
>Submissive nearly masochistic to women, including his wife, doesn't seem all that bothered with it.
>Remarks one too many times about shit. Cat's anus, manure, kidneys that taste like piss, taking a nice long shit.
How much of this is Joyce and how much is it just realistic character writing? Keep in mind, this is only my second Joyce read after Portrait.

Some lines I enjoyed.
>Mrkgnao
>A barren land, bare waste. Vulcanic lake, the dead sea: no fish, weedless, sunk deep in the earth. No wind would lift those waves, grey metal, poisonous foggy waters. Brimstone they called it raining down: the cities of the plain: Sodom, Gomorrah, Edom. All dead names. A dead sea in a dead land, grey and old. Old now. It bore the oldest, the first race.
>Some people believe, he said, that we go on living in another body after death, that we lived before. They call it reincarnation. That we all lived before on the earth thousands of years ago or some other planet. They say we have forgotten it. Some say they remember their past lives.

>>20558091
highlights cont.
>Evening hours, girls in grey gauze. Night hours then: black with daggers and eyemasks. Poetical idea: pink, then golden, then grey, then black. Still, true to life also. Day: then the night.
I also just saw mention of how much he payed for a painting above his head and a mention of manuring his garden. Jfc, Joyce, this fucking book is dense.
I have already read Lotus-Eaters but after re-scanning Calypso like this I can tell I definitely need to do so with Lotus.

Bump

Wake up you damn dirty Jesuits. Stop eating the fucking lotus petals

>>20559397
Okay okay okay, I'm here for the lotus inspection.
So the Lotus was that letter right? Seemed to intoxicate him fairly enough. He spends a few pages imagining her life and all sorts of shit. This chapter didn't seem as dense as Calypso, but maybe I'm wrong. What do we think of it?

Some highlights/insights
>The far east. Lovely spot it must be: the garden of the world, big lazy leaves to float about on, cactuses, flowery meads, snaky lianas they call them. Wonder is it like that. Those Cinghalese lobbing about in the sun in dolce far niente, not doing a hand's turn all day. Sleep six months out of twelve. Too hot to quarrel. Influence of the climate. Lethargy. Flowers of idleness. The air feeds most. Azotes. Hothouse in Botanic gardens. Sensitive plants. Waterlilies. Petals too tired to. Sleeping sickness in the air. Walk on roseleaves. Imagine trying to eat tripe and cowheel. Where was the chap I saw in that picture somewhere? Ah yes, in the dead sea floating on his back, reading a book with a parasol open. Couldn't sink if you tried: so thick with salt. Because the weight of the water, no, the weight of the body in the water is equal to the weight of the what? Or is it the volume is equal to the weight? It's a law something like that. Vance in High school cracking his fingerjoints, teaching. The college curriculum. Cracking curriculum. What is weight really when you say the weight? Thirtytwo feet per second per second. Law of falling bodies: per second per second. They all fall to the ground. The earth. It's the force of gravity of the earth is the weight.

The part where he looked around M'Coys head to get a view of the ass was funny.

Hamlet gets brought up again. Significance?

She gives him a yellow flower in the letter. Biblicaly significant color, right?

>You could tear up a cheque for a hundred pounds in the same way. Simple bit of paper.
Jew. Always thinking of money.
>The cold smell of sacred stone called him. He trod the worn steps, pushed the swingdoor and entered softly by the rere.
>Iron nails ran in.
Bloom has some hilariously nonchalant, almost childish thoughts about the church and priest. Both of our protags hate the church, huh?
>The chemist turned back page after page...
That whole paragraph is going somewhere..

Will continue this when I have more time.

Notes!
>. . . read the legends of leadpapered packets: choice blend, finest quality, family tea. Rather warm.
I love when Joyce uses compound words. Crustcrumbs, leadpapered, wristbangles.
I do the same in my writing because I like the odd way they roll off the tongue, and, since having begun (sort of re-)reading Joyce a month ago, I've been so stoked: reading Joyce sort of validates this one little "quirk" in my writing. I love compound words so goddamn much. AAAAAAAAAAAAAH! Just this one little aspect of Joyce's work is so sexy. I love Joyce

>>20556231
Could just be another connection to the Odyssey. The Greeks made stories about themselves since they were the dominant culture so maybe he's making Bloom a Jew to show them as the dominant culture in the western canon.
>>20559543
>>20557564
You know my first read through I thought Joyce was being anti-Catholic as well, but on my second one I'm not so sure. Bloom's observations are the same kind most of us would make when attending a random religious service we're not familiar with. If I was in a Islamic service, for example, I may think, "Look at how they make the women wait in back so we don't see their ass." It's easy to be condescending with a foreign culture and I think it speaks to the brilliance of Joyce that he's able to capture that in Bloom's stream of conscience during mass.

>>20560010
Concerning Joyce’s alleged anti-Catholicism, I can see your point. Actually that seems right to me. I suppose I wrongly assumed that Bloom would be catholic in such a deeply catholic nation but no, he’s much more of a carbon copy older Stephen. Though Stephen is much more against it than Bloom. I said Bloom was anti catholic simply because if he was a believer than his observations would be nearing blasphemy. I just found them curiously funny like when he describes the confession booth as a whispering gallery.

>>20559601
His compound words are some of my favorite little things with his writing. The random and eloquent as fuck alliteration and assonance as well.

Really enjoying this reading with you anons. Makes me feel like im gonna blooooooooooom

>Quietly he read, restraining himself, the first column and, yielding but resisting, began the second. Midway, his last resistance yielding, he allowed his bowels to ease themselves quietly as he read, reading still patiently, that slight constipation of yesterday quite gone. Hope it's not too big bring on piles again. No, just right.

>>20513625
Just finished Lotus Eaters. I don't have much time tonight for longer posts of my thoughts, so here's just initial impressions of Bloom, mostly:
He seems almost like a stereotypical sensualist with a submissive nature, but definitely some ressentiment that seeps through sometimes. Very Freudian with his weird fetishes. Joyce was ahead of his time with his knowledge of humane psychology. Bloom does annoy me though as he seems to have no sense of anything divine, no sense of intuition. He does seem like someone who enjoys the simple pleasures in life, which would complement Stephen's obsessive self reflection. It's a bit weird how Joyce seemed to hate stereotypes, but still makes the jew a money lover in advertising. But there's probably a lot more to Bloom than this, can't wait to read on.

>>20561115
Human psychology*

You fucking sleeping Jesuit fucks

That scene where Bloom gets annoyed at M'Coy for talking to him while he's trying to stare at that girl's ass always cracks me up.

>Mr Bloom, strolling towards Brunswick street, smiled. My missus has just got an. Reedy freckled soprano. Cheeseparing nose. Nice enough in its way: for a little ballad. No guts in it. You and me, don’t you know: in the same boat. Softsoaping. Give you the needle that would. Can’t he hear the difference? Think he’s that way inclined a bit. Against my grain somehow. Thought that Belfast would fetch him. I hope that smallpox up there doesn’t get worse. Suppose she wouldn’t let herself be vaccinated again. Your wife and my wife.

>Wonder is he pimping after me?

What is Bloom thinking here, btw? Does he wonder if M'Coy wants him to fuck his wife? kek. I think he also thinks M'Coy is gay because of 'Wonder if he's inclined that way'. Poor M'Coy, huh?

I also liked that scene where Bloom sits down at the church. You get the feeling that he's not very fond of missionaries with this passage:

>Same notice on the door. Sermon by the very reverend John Conmee S. J. on saint Peter Claver S. J. and the African Mission. Prayers for the conversion of Gladstone they had too when he was almost unconscious. The protestants are the same. Convert Dr William J. Walsh D.D. to the true religion. Save China’s millions. Wonder how they explain it to the heathen Chinee. Prefer an ounce of opium. Celestials. Rank heresy for them. Buddha their god lying on his side in the museum. Taking it easy with hand under his cheek. Josssticks burning. Not like Ecce Homo. Crown of thorns and cross. Clever idea Saint Patrick the shamrock. Chopsticks? Conmee: Martin Cunningham knows him: distinguishedlooking. Sorry I didn’t work him about getting Molly into the choir instead of that Father Farley who looked a fool but wasn’t. They’re taught that. He’s not going out in bluey specs with the sweat rolling off him to baptise blacks, is he? The glasses would take their fancy, flashing. Like to see them sitting round in a ring with blub lips, entranced, listening. Still life. Lap it up like milk, I suppose.

I'm a chapter behind, but I'm still reading and going to stay the course with you lads. I was posting a lot for "Dubliners" and "Portrait" but "Ulysses" filters me about 40% of the time I feel. I just try to enjoy the prose and highlight everything I don't know to check later, and read the thread for far more intelligent anons and their opinions. Also, all the references are motivation to just read it again this time next year after expanding my literary knowledge. Proteus almost made me tap out; if it was a few pages longer I might have stopped. I can see how Freud (or Jung?) thought the book was a sign of onset schizophrenia and explained Joyce's daughter's lapse into mental illness as genetic. Not a likely theory, since I've dealt with schizophrenics and they don't write like this. Joyce has too many deliberate references, alliteration, rhyming, and lucidity of his descriptions to be that far gone. All the silly words that come up seem exactly that. This is more like a frustrated creative with a corpulent amygdala and ravenous imagination vomiting it all up at once; a contemporary adoloscent filling his journal with drawings "Heavy Metal" magazine booba and lightsabers from being raised by the television instead of the Greeks.

I read the first paragraph of Calypso and laughed so I feel back in the groove already. If Bloom is this disgusting throughout than I might have a new favorite protagonist that isn't Ignatius Riley or Patrick Bateman.

>>20562522
>This is more like a frustrated creative with a corpulent amygdala and ravenous imagination vomiting it all up at once
I feel like this when I write sometimes. I'm glad you were able to put it into words so nicely. But as far as I know, Joyce rarely flooded the pages with words. He picked each one very carefully.

>>20562522
Keep at it anon. If it helps, there's an excellent audiobook on YouTube which helped me understand a lot more my second time through.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRecMy_5_U0
>>20560372
>whispering gallery
Kek, yeah one of the best parts of Ulysses is hearing Bloom's clever--if a little conceited--humor. By the way, Bloom is Jewish but I think his father technically converted himself and his son to Protestantism.

>>20562302
Kek

>>20550014
>bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk
is meant to signify the fall from the garden of eden

This part of Finnegans Wake is hilarious to me

> This the way to the museyroom. Mind your hats goan in!
Now yiz are in the Willingdone Museyroom. This is a Prooshi-
ous gunn. This is a ffrinch. Tip. This is the flag of the Prooshi-
ous, the Cap and Soracer. This is the bullet that byng the flag of
the Prooshious. This is the ffrinch that fire on the Bull that bang
the flag of the Prooshious. Saloos the Crossgunn! Up with your
pike and fork! Tip. (Bullsfoot! Fine!) This is the triplewon hat of
Lipoleum. Tip. Lipoleumhat. This is the Willingdone on his
same white harse, the Cokenhape. This is the big Sraughter Wil-
lingdone, grand and magentic in his goldtin spurs and his ironed
dux and his quarterbrass woodyshoes and his magnate's gharters
and his bangkok's best and goliar's goloshes and his pullupon-
easyan wartrews. This is his big wide harse. Tip. This is the three
lipoleum boyne grouching down in the living detch. This is an
inimyskilling inglis, this is a scotcher grey, this is a davy, stoop-
ing. This is the bog lipoleum mordering the lipoleum beg. A
Gallawghurs argaumunt. This is the petty lipoleum boy that
was nayther bag nor bug. Assaye, assaye! Touchole Fitz Tuo-
mush. Dirty MacDyke. And Hairy O'Hurry. All of them
arminus-varminus. This is Delian alps. This is Mont Tivel,
this is Mont Tipsey, this is the Grand Mons Injun.

It's time to start Hades! Alas I think about 95% of whom we originally started with got filtered. But I am still reading.

>He ceased. Mr Bloom glanced from his angry moustache to Mr Power's mild face and Martin Cunningham's eyes and beard, gravely shaking. Noisy selfwilled man. Full of his son. He is right. Something to hand on. If little Rudy had lived. See him grow up. Hear his voice in the house. Walking beside Molly in an Eton suit. My son. Me in his eyes. Strange feeling it would be. From me. Just a chance. Must have been that morning in Raymond terrace she was at the window watching the two dogs at it by the wall of the cease to do evil. And the sergeant grinning up. She had that cream gown on with the rip she never stitched. Give us a touch, Poldy. God, I'm dying for it. How life begins.
>Got big then. Had to refuse the Greystones concert. My son inside her. I could have helped him on in life. I could. Make him independent. Learn German too.
Sexy and sad at the same time. His wife asked for it first and then the poor lad didn't make it in the long term. I think I'm going to see a lot about Rudy show up because it certainly seems to keep Bloom occupied.

I'm still on Lotus-eaters... Life has roughed me up a little and I was considering dropping Ulysses, but I think I'll catch up with you fellas by the 23rd. I love you guys. Thanks for keeping the thread going. Stay safe
I WASN'T FILTERED!!!

>>20564695
I'm more sad about Bloom's father committing suicide. Although I'm only twenty and haven't had any children.

bumperino

Jesus you fucks don't let it die. Haven't finished the chapter yet so I'm just going to post some highlights. The way Cunningham brushes off Bloom is hilarious btw. Anyone understand the "fleshpots of Egypt" thing? It was from earlier in the book Stephen mentions it then Bloom does as well. Biblical?

>Mr Dedalus, peering through his glasses towards the veiled sun, hurled a mute curse at the sky.

>White horses with white frontlet plumes came round the Rotunda corner, galloping. A tiny coffin flashed by. In a hurry to bury. A mourning coach. Unmarried. Black for the married. Piebald for bachelors. Dun for a nun.

>Rattle his bones. Over the stones. Only a pauper. Nobody owns.

Joyce has some really good rhyming in this chapter that doesn't feel as forced as it did in Lotus-Eaters. The was Bloom uses his little phrases later on really shows off Joyce's ability to write a realistic character. Thoughts and snippets just bounce around in his head and plug themselves into his frontal lobe whenever they feel they fit.

kek'd at Bloom's daydream of Paddy's upturned coffin lmfao.

> The stonecutter's yard on the right. Last lap. Crowded on the spit of land silent shapes appeared, white, sorrowful, holding out calm hands, knelt in grief, pointing. Fragments of shapes, hewn. In white silence: appealing. The best obtainable. Thos. H. Dennany, monumental builder and sculptor.
and
>The high railings of Prospect rippled past their gaze. Dark poplars, rare white forms. Forms more frequent, white shapes thronged amid the trees, white forms and fragments streaming by mutely, sustaining vain gestures on the air.
are both eloquent as fuck and paint such vivid imagery of the stoneyard of a cemetery. Bloodborne vibes.

For the sake of conversation (and keeping the thread alive) anons tell me what edition/version you are reading! Post pics of your copy if you have a physical one. C'mon, fellows, don't filter out. We're all in this together!

>Picrel is mine.
Got it's own dedicated notebooks for my highlights and footnotes. What's you alls set ups?

>>20567058
>The high railings of Prospect rippled past their gaze. Dark poplars, rare white forms. Forms more frequent, white shapes thronged amid the trees, white forms and fragments streaming by mutely, sustaining vain gestures on the air

How did he do it bros? How does one even conceive such phrases

>>20567058
>What's you alls set ups?
a private twitter account
>"fleshpots of Egypt"
when i was 9 i read in an encyclopedia about the ancient egyptian burial process. they would extract the internal organs before burying the body. they'd keep these organs in jars. canopic jars, i think they're called. four jars: for the intestines, stomach, liver, and lungs. organs preserved in natural preservatives.
but not the heart: it is the seat of the soul.
maybe that's what joyce was referring to. that's what i think, anyway.
or maybe i'm a dumbass!!!

i'm going to catch up tomorrow (i'm >>20565037). KEEP THE THREADS GOING!!!

Bump you god damn sleepy Irish niggas

>>20567897
Say something about the book. At least attempt to discuss. We’re better than b just mindlessly bumping threads…. Niggaaaaaaaa

>>20567058
Anon and OP posted the link>>20513625

>>20567118
Nice. Joyce does mention organs a lot and even in OPs pic.

I’m halfway through Hades, is this chapter supposed to be funny? I keep laughing at the conversations they have and Blooms thoughts.

I love Bloom’s little band of compatriots he rides in the carriage with. They all seem like old dads talking at a soccer game, except they’re old dads talking at a funeral.
For those of you who read Dubliners, it’s also nice to see Martin Cunningham again. He seems to be one of the wiser characters, being one of the few who knows about Bloom’s father’s death.
>>20565037
>>20567118
Glad you’re here anon, YGMI!
>>20568174
Much like a lot of great lit, Ulysses manages to be incredibly funny without ever really becoming a comedy.

Are there any anons that have read Ulysses already and can contribute to the discussion?

I’ve seen a lot of posts before about Joyce I wonder if it was the same anon over and over, though some were shitting on Joyce and others praised Joyce.

>Posts keep getting filtered
I'm seething I just wrote up something on Hades. I'm excited for the Hamlet discussion soon if there's any anons left lol/

i'm back! just noticed this in lotus-eaters:
>Henry Flower
Flower. Bloom.

mindblown

>>20568987
>There's a drowning case at Sandycove may turn up and then the coroner and myself would have to go down if the body is found. You just shove in my name if I'm not there, will you?
This was referenced earlier in Telemachus and Proteus too

>the sweet oaten reek of horsepiss
i hate the smell of cowshit and goatpiss, but does horsepiss really smell as good as Joyce makes it out to be? he does this in A Portrait, too:
>That is horse piss and rotted straw, he thought. It is a good odour to breathe. It will calm my heart. My heart is quite calm now. I will go back.

>I am awfully angry with you. I do wish I could punish you for that.
oh MOMMY

>Eunuch. One way out of it.
Bloom having thoughts of castrating himself to get away from his lust. Wow. Lotus-eaters is wild. I'm reading it in short bursts, but I'll get to Hades soon enough

>>20567118
i'm a dumbass.

from joyceproject.com:
>Both Stephen and Bloom think of a biblical phrase, "fleshpots of Egypt," that evokes life in exile. It is used by the Israelites when they rebel against Moses, who has led them out of captivity in Egypt into near-starvation in the Sinai desert.

>In "the fifteenth day of the second month" after leaving Egypt, "the whole congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness: And the children of Israel said unto them, Would to God we had died by the hand of the Lord in the land of Egypt, when we sat by the flesh pots, and when we did eat bread to the full; for ye have brought us forth into this wilderness, to kill this whole assembly with hunger" (Exodus 16:1-3). Yahweh responds by promising to "rain bread from heaven" (16:4), "And it came to pass, that at even the quails came up, and covered the camp: and in the morning the dew lay round about the host" (16:13). The quail meat and the manna rescue the people from starvation.

>Stephen apparently thinks of this episode in Proteus with a wry, sardonic twist. He has escaped from Ireland, only to face near-starvation in Paris. What does he find to eat there? Not elegant quail or miraculous manna but only "fleshpots" of the lowest order: "mou en civet" is lung stew.

>Bloom too does something surprising with the image. He thinks of a man named Jack Fleming who ran off to America and "Keeps a hotel now. They never come back. Fleshpots of Egypt." In this instance, the better economic circumstances in America, imaged as fleshpots, keep Ireland's exiles from returning. Material fulfillment wins out over spiritual calling.

>>20569461
oh, forgot to say. i finished lotus-eaters a bit after this post. i'll try to write a "long" post later. i'm going to start hades in two hours.
sorry for septuple-posting, but i had to keep the thread floating.

I'm going insane over how Stephen and Bloom are like two extremes of my personality, I feel like Joyce has me all figured out.

>>20569613
a lot of the best writing feels like the words are turning to look directly into your soul and saying: "yeah. i know exactly what you're like." very eery

>Mr Bloom, about to speak, closed his lips again. Martin Cunningham's large eyes. Looking away now. Sympathetic human man he is. Intelligent. Like Shakespeare's face. Always a good word to say. They have no mercy on that here or infanticide. Refuse christian burial. They used to drive a stake of wood through his heart in the grave. As if it wasn't broken already. Yet sometimes they repent too late. Found in the riverbed clutching rushes. He looked at me. And that awful drunkard of a wife of his. Setting up house for her time after time and then pawning the furniture on him every Saturday almost. Leading him the life of the damned. Wear the heart out of a stone, that. Monday morning. Start afresh. Shoulder to the wheel. Lord, she must have looked a sight that night Dedalus told me he was in there. Drunk about the place and capering with Martin's umbrella.
Fuck, man. That line about driving a stake through a broken heart was really sad. I've got about 20 pages to catch up on this morning and then I can start Aeolus tonight.

>>20569510
goddamnit. okay i'll finish hades by today but no promises as to when exactly

>Once you are dead you are dead. That last day idea. Knocking them all up out of their graves. Come forth, Lazarus! And he came fifth and lost the job.
Laughed

>>20568469
>without ever really becoming a comedy
What are you talking about? The only genre Ulysses belongs to is comedy.

>>20568987
Virag, his father's surname, means Flower in Hungarian.

>>20570485
oh. i'm a dumbass, then. intellectually mogged again!

>>20568469
>Martin Cunningham
Which story was he in? I can't seem to immediately recall.

>>20570671
Grace

BUMP. GODDAMNIT. I haven't read Hades yet. I'm so sorry. I promise I'll catch up and write about both Lotus-eaters and Hades soon

>>20572399
Yeah anon yeah I b-believe (hehehe) sorry I (pfffttt heh heh heh) yeah man, anon, I totally, pfffft, I totally believe you HEHEHEHEH

I feel bad for Bloom. He seems like a nice, kindhearted guy and everybody's talking shit about him behind his back. He's an exile from society just as much as Stephen is. I guess that makes sense if he's the Odysseus of the story

I start Aeolus tomorrow morning at work. How is everyone else holding up?
>>20572965
I think it's a very Irish thing, considering their supposed crab bucket mentality and extreme religious purity. Since Bloom is a Jew and he's getting cucked, that's two reasons to talk shit about him. And from my understanding he's a canvasser who makes ads and tries to do well for himself and his family, but you can't have that in Ireland. Everyone's gotta hate their life as much as everyone else.
I also like Bloom and find his trains of thought fascinating to trace. Like in Hades, the little paragraph about rain is very pleasant. "I thought it would" without telling us he'd been thinking about rain.
>A raindrop spat on his hat. He drew back and saw an instant of shower spray dots over the grey flags. Apart. Curious. Like through a colander. I thought it would. My boots were creaking I remember now.

>>20573237
11 pgs to finish Hades, just looking for thoughts. Seems Bloom is worried about death and doesn’t know if to laugh or to live.
Also his father commits suicide and his child/baby boy dies. Both extremes-reminds me of Becketts line “the gravedigger puts on the forceps”
He also mentions Hamlet, my old college prof said he wrote the play for his dead son Hamnet.

>>20568788
I’m trying to anon.
>>20570476
I wouldn’t classify it as one, but on Circe for my re-read and I’m legitimately laughing out loud.
>>20570671
Grace, like that other anon said. Acted as sort of a mentor/authority figure in that too.
>>20573307
I don’t know if it’s just him being worried about death as much as being disturbed by it. The death of his father and son both seem to have really affected him. I think it’s very noteworthy the way he talks about Simon’s pride in Stephen and feels a twang of understanding with it.

I like Hades as a chapter, the awkward journey to Glasnevin and the chat.
>Death by misadventure
Mr. Bloom refuses to believe it was suicide, why though? In case his father doesn't go to heaven? He converted to Christianity when he married Molly but at his core he is still a Jew, remember what he ate at the start of Calypso. He's been culturally converted to Irish it seems and his Irish identity will be important later on.
>More Buck Mulligan slander
I wonder when Joyce wrote this passage because his hatred for Gogarty had subsided as he got older, maybe it was just to keep the story in order. Anyway, Joyce's obsession with being betrayed is very interesting.

>>20572965
>>20573237
Gonna finish both Hades and Aeolus today, I hope

>>20574212
>Inked characters fast fading on the frayed breaking paper.
Goddamn. Look at the assonance and alliteration: fast fading frayed; fading frayed breaking paper. There's also a strong sense of "numbness" in the scene with the carriage. Exactly how it feels on the way to a funeral.

>>20568987
Blume means flower in German, and Yiddish is a German dialect, so there's a stronger connection.

>>20574128
>Bloom refuses to believe it was suicide
Where does it say that?

poor bloom.

>— He had a sudden death, poor fellow, he said.
>— The best death, Mr Bloom said.
>Their wide open eyes looked at him.
>— No suffering, he said. A moment and all is over. Like dying in sleep.
>No-one spoke.

>Molly gets swelled after cabbage.

>>20576525
kek

Caught up! Will finish Aeolus tomorrow.
Joyce reading a portion of Aeolus:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhW0TrzWGmI
He reads his work exactly as I read it. The stops and starts and ups and downs in his voice are the same as in mine when I read.

>Lotus-eaters
Lotus-eaters seems to me to be very much about foreign-ness. References to the Far East; opium, Buddha statues, lazing Cinghalese. Ruminations on the Middle East; mosques, Turkish baths, Mohammed. I interpreted Bloom's observation of the Catholic church service (>>20559543, >>20557564, >>20560010) as neutral, and perhaps appreciatively curious. Anyway. Bloom seems to misremember a lot w.r.t. literature and science than Stephen does.

>Hades
This chapter had some very great moments (>>20574663). First time Stephen and Bloom "cross paths." Mulligan slander. Poor Gogarty. Sad to see Simon break down remembering his wife. Bloom seems both very isolated from the others in his behaviour (— The best death . . .) and in his Jewishness (— The devil break the hasp of your back!; — Well, nearly all of us.) I also notice that Bloom's train of thought (actually, most humans', but it is hardly expressed in fiction) tends to very tenderly and intimately... indignify the people around him. Cunningham, O'Connell. There's also the bit about Bloom's father killing himself. That sort of thing can really screw you up. Oh, and there's also this odd feeling you get when the narrative shifts from Bloom's stream of consciousness to the omniscient third-person perspective. Can't put my finger on it. It's like Bloom's thoughts feel blue and the third person feels yellow, but not in the sad-happy way that those colours are generally thought of. That would be too simple. There's a certain cleanness to the third-person perspective. I don't know. Can't put my finger on it.
Cunningham's a cool dude.
The more I read Ulysses the clearer it feels. There's also these bright flashes of pride when I understand an allusion or reference.
Can't wait to finish Aeolus. I'm loving it already. This might turn out to be my favourite chapter

I'm about to start bros! Let's see, chapter one, Telemachus...

>>20576405
Amazing part. Such a subtle social interaction that reveals so much about the character.
>>20576525
Wait till you get to Circe.
>>20576854
>Cunningham's a cool dude
One of my favorite characters. He seems like such a smart, understanding dude. Love the small hint that he’s one of the few who knows about Bloom’s father. Joyce has a few characters that only seem present in the novel a short time but leave such a massive impact on the reader.

>>20578247
You may also remember Cunningham from Dubliners!

>>20576854
His Cork accent is so very subdued, I didn't even know that was possible. Him reading FW is such clearer and there is a bit of a twang but nothing of what you'd expect.

>Grossbooted draymen rolled barrels dullthudding out of Prince's stores and bumped them up on the brewery float. On the brewery float bumped dullthudding barrels rolled by grossbooted draymen out of Prince's stores.
fucking based sentence. won't explain why

I've been surprised at how easy Ulysses is to read and understand so far.

>>20579947
i'm envious of you. it's been a pretty hard read so far.

Don't believe anyone who claims to have understood Ulysses just reading it once at normal pace. You cannot fully understand/appreciate Calypso and Hades unless you've read Nausikaa and Penelope at the end of the book. And unless you're from Dublin you cannot possibly get many references without an annotations guide.

Jesus Christ people here are more concerned with looking smart than actually enjoying literature.

>>20579982
This is a good annotations guide. No need to read everything obviously.

only thing i don't like about this book is how the bloom chapters take up so much of the book and they're all very short sentences. like 3-4 at a time sometimes. the dedalus chapters are superior.

>>20579982
now i'm looking forward to nausicaa and penelope! i actually first became very interested in ulysses because of this excerpt from penelope:
>a quarter after what an unearthly hour I suppose theyre just getting up in China now combing out their pigtails for the day well soon have the nuns ringing the angelus theyve nobody coming in to spoil their sleep except an odd priest or two for his night office the alarmclock next door at cockshout clattering the brains out of itself let me see if I can doze off 1 2 3 4 5 what kind of flowers are those they invented like the stars the wallpaper in Lombard street was much nicer the apron he gave me was like that something only I only wore it twice better lower this lamp and try again so that I can get up early

>>20579982
oh but also i've been reading ulysses very slowly. i feel extremely stupid. i keep re-reading sentences and i feel like a brainlet. i'm usually a fast reader, but ulysses has me stumbling

>>20580000
Nausikaa is my favourite chapter. Many focus on the sexual aspects ("haha he masturbated in public") but even that passage alone is one of the best illustration of Joyce's talent for multiple reasons. I'll let you find out for yourself.

>>20580017
You're not gonna understand it by reading it more slowly. You either have to take notes and read it twice, or use a guide to help you get through it. Try one of these

>New Bloomsday Book - chapter by chapter essays
>https://www.ulyssesguide.com - background, context plus chapter summaries
>Nabokov's Lecture on Literature - analysis and chapter summaries

>>20580028
well i say i've been reading it slowly, but i mean i'm pausing to look at the annotations (joyceproject.com)

>>20579982
>You cannot fully understand/appreciate Calypso and Hades unless you've read Nausikaa and Penelope at the end of the book
That's just a blatant lie
>And unless you're from Dublin you cannot possibly get many references without an annotations guide.
another lie. If you take your time you'll understand most of what is being said. As for references, yes some of them are very relevant to 1904 Dublin but you can still make sense of a lot. Potted meat being a prominent one that's easy to interpret.

>>20580084
>take your time
Looks like you're the one telling lies. You cannot "get" a reference or allusion by taking your time. The fuck are you smoking?

>>20580153
You can't read
> If you take your time you'll understand most of what is being said. As for references, yes some of them are very relevant to 1904 Dublin but you can still make sense of a lot. Potted meat being a prominent one that's easy to interpret.
>As for references

>>20579982
>>20580084
>>20580153
>>20580249
Maybe what the first poster meant is that the allusions (both external and internal-circular) in the text are essential to understanding and appreciating (most of) Ulysses. That's up for debate, I suppose. Many small things in the text that I think you'll only understand upon re-reading and re-re-reading.

Captcha: P00SY

bump. how many people are actually reading along? can we have roll-call? even the lurkers?

>>20581574
Checking in. Just finished Aeolus. I got a bit lost about what they're all talking about, but I could read through it just fine. I'm hoping to keep pace like this for the next two months on through.

>>20581574
I've read Joyce front to back, I lurk everyday to give advice and through some theories and opinions around. I know the thing like the back of my hand oh the wasted days.

>>20581574
I'm reading along but I'm getting the urge to read ahead cause I'm enjoying my experience so far, despite getting filtered a lot. I'm spending my extra time reading essays and annotations though, so I might not speed ahead anyway.
I just hate the feeling of reading an entire chapter and not really understanding what just happened plot-wise. As an ESL, the Irish banter and the fragmented stream of consciousness of the characters can be hard to decipher into a coherent plot. Ulyssesguide.com is helping me a lot though, and the annotations from Ulyssesproject too. I think that's one of the biggest enjoyable aspects of reading it for me: to simply "get" it. My determination is so strong to finish it, there's no way I'm gonna give up on it, even if I get bored by some chapters. I'll be here all summer with you guys even though I don't post much

>>20581838
cool anon, did you study lit/english major?

>>20581574
Reading along, have posted few comments and questions.
I’ll catch up tomorrow.

WAKE
UP
YOU FUCKING JESUITS
New thread soon anyways

anyone else found aeolus the most difficult chapter so far?

>>20581924
>cool anon, did you study lit/english major?
I did, that was for my undergrad but I've always read and studied Joyce myself anyway. Ireland needs to honour it's writers otherwise we'll be throwing away our greeatest legacy.
>>20583556
When I first read it I still found Proteus the hardest, Aeolus became much easier when you realise it's meant to be read like a newspaper and that if you needed to, you could ignore the headlines.

>>20584101
>>20584101
>>20584101
>>20584101