/lit/ - Literature

look at this dude

>>20582187
I'm genuinely impressed how this Guenon/Evola meme has taken off. It's a zoomer memetics pandemic making young impressionable 4chan snowflakes feeling special for having "esoteric" knowledge that hasn't been widely refuted yet (like Theosophy), as to stand as contrarians to the dominant atomistic libtard zeitgeist. The modern day autistic rebel

>>20582187
If this Guenon guy had secret esoteric knowledge, why does he look like that? Wouldn't he be better looking? Checkmate.

>>20582187
The problem is people are spoiled, they are uncomfortable with giving up their power of choice. Knowing when to submit is ruling

>>20582290
Theosophy is far eastern and Hindu fanfiction. There. Refuted.

>>20582290
Considering what the dominant atomistic libtard zeitgeist is, I would be more than happy to be a contrarian to it desu
Now praise Guenon (PBUH)

>>20582301
By his assertions, people would not know they are being ruled and would not be made uncomfortable by it. Still does not address how the "ruling" group would be incorruptible

Why do you think your opinion matters? Are you some sort of democrat?

>>20582307
I meant that theosophy has been widely refuted already

>>20582370
You've yet to actually explain any of your points, would you like to?

>>20582187
> how is the alternative any better?

Even if a group of a hundred "intellectual elite" individuals like he suggests was to guide the world what would prevent them from descending into corruption and self-aggrandizement.
Its not about what is the foolproof system that will always work and never fail or be corrupted, its about whats most in alignment with the structure and hierarchy of existence, what fulfills the mandate of heaven so to speak

>>20582377
Where does the theory of the intellectual elite come from then? Is it just his own "intellectual intuition"?

He specifically states the essential tradition of Christianity has been hidden completely, and the remaining existing bastions of tradition are eastern.

I could be incorrect in this but the idea of a secretive elite ruling class seems to be a far more western idea than eastern.

>>20582365
absolutely reasonable point

lets say I am attempting to understand and not provide a better option

>>20582375
It's spelled out quite clearly actually. It's just impressive some islamist who wrote obscure metaphysical books in thr early 20th century that nobody today reads got do popular among young autists on a Mongolian basket weaving forum

I'm not arguing against Guenon. It's just a fun leap from millenials being cynical atheists to zoomers traplarping

any muzzie /trad/s here?
got a question

>>20582713
so daddy dago plans to wrap up his preliminary /trad/ studies by the end of this year before he moves onto a single tradition and is initiated.

however, he needs to complete the final task of doing a comparative analysis of Shankara (pbuh) & ibn Arabi (pbuh) before he can graduate.

picrel is the islamic books he plans do read (a handful have already been read)
is there anything noteworthy that is missing that is an absolute MUST READ?

moot point, you're almost asking why can't we draw a perfect circle and why bother trying to use a good compass when it's never going to be perfect, a perfect perpetual polis won't happen as long as man is in his material state and subject to the centrifugal force of his own separation from god, there's no magical formula or system that tinkered in the right way will get you there, that's true for the most delusional modern progressive state-planner as much as the other side, and certainly not while the Kali Yuga is in progress, which is what Guenon[PBUH] and the like believed and would thus also contextualize any sort of idea about the state they put forward
but putting in charge(figuratively "putting") those who, so to speak, are less affected by this centrifugal force and resemble unmoved movers the most would be a most basic course of action to even start creating a stable social order, hence why "rule" of the "demos" has always been a joke(if not called a straight up metaphysical impossibility by Guenon himself[PBUH])

>>20582797
If such people existed would they actually be interested in ruling whatsoever?

>>20582187
Have you met sufis or hindu masters ? Their initiation and spiritual practices actually change very tangibly their behavior. Your question is typical of someone who think of religion as something social or sentimental, not something that can actually transform you from within very durably

Nothing. Guenon was a proponent of the Great Reset, a new age oligarchy of pseudo-spirituality.

>>20582785
Have you read the Symbolism of the Cross and Man and his Becoming according to Vedanta ? I would advise you to reread them carefully if you did.

(Also , just dropping that quickly as an aside, but recently I found that according to Guénon, the Hindu Ishwara/the Hindu Trimurti is identical to the Christian concept of Logos. It might be interesting for you to take notes when such comparisons arise in order to better understand these concepts, as Ibn Arabi is notoriously difficult to comprehend for exemple. In order to have the best chances of success, such note-taking appear to be necessary)

>>20584692
>Have you read the Symbolism of the Cross and Man and his Becoming according to Vedanta ?
yes, and I am going to go back to Vedanta and other Guenonian Hindu/Metaphysical core books after I get through those Islamic books.
>I would advise you to reread them carefully if you did
absolutely, and that's the plan
I read last month a handful of Shankara commentaries on the Upanishads and the Gita, but I got partly filtered by all the Sanskrit terms and deemed it necessary to go back and re-read everything until it all clicked.
I owe it to my brother guenonfag (maybe he's you?) to develop a rock solid Advaita foundation since he got me in the game some years ago.

>recently I found that according to Guénon, the Hindu Ishwara/the Hindu Trimurti is identical to the Christian concept of Logos
will do...
very interesting

been reading too much semi-profane /pol/ tier stuff lately and need to get back to pure metaphysics and Tradition

>>20584752
Nah I just started coming here recently because someone told me that there was always at least 1 Guénon thread at any time. I didn't believe it but it was true, kek.

Yeah, it takes a while to assimilate some notions, especially with the language barrier, and sometimes it is useful to check what is the equivalent in another tradition. For example, 'The Great Triad' might also be useful to read, because I recently stumbled upon a taoist quote that sums things up quite nicely ("Tao begets 1, 1 begets 2, 2 begets 3, 3 begets all" , so Brahman begets Ishwara which is the Being/ principle of manifestation, Ishwara begets duality and the Yin/Yang or Purusha/Prakriti , which in turn begets Man, Heaven and Earth, which are Taoist symbols for the entirety of manifestation basically).

Anyways, enough Guenonposting. You are right, too much involvement in things like culture war bullshit and the pointless distractions it causes.
Do you have any plans to join initiatic orders at some point ? It's kind of difficult to know what is legit nowadays

>>20582187
Monarchies were infinitely better than democracies. But monarchy isn't some utopia. Utopia is unattainable. There's no perfect form of government.

>>20584886
>someone told me that there was always at least 1 Guénon thread at any time
the more Guenonchads here the better
you sound like you have read all his works?
>Do you have any plans to join initiatic orders at some point ?
gonna try to get initiated into Shingon Buddhism over the next couple years before coming back to TradCath
u?
>enough Guenonposting
no such thing

>>20582785
give me some money on paypal, I am poor

>>20582290
>The modern day autistic rebel
So uhm, based?

>>20584931
I have read 3-4 times Crisis, the Introduction to Hindu Doctrines, the Reign of Quantity, and I also read the Symbolism of the Cross, Perspectives on initiation, Perspectives on islamic esotericism, and that's about it.

Since I speak French, I was able to read easily some parts of his letters used it to tacle several large excerpts of Man and his Becoming & Spiritual Authority and Temporal Power, that's where I found the explicit assimilation of Ishwara to the Logos for example. So that helped me a bit, plus talking with a few Guenonposters I met over the years allowed me to discern weither or not I was completely off. Being able to reformulate what you read is often a formidable way to structure your knowlegde and thought process.

Have you read all of his books ?

Buddhism you say ? Quite interesting, I tend to be wary of Buddhism because between the heresies and the Western interpretations, I always found that somewhat risky.

As for me, well, I would like to see what are my options first - weither Eastern Orthodoxy still has something to offer, or maybe check if hinduism is really as closed-off as some claim. As a last resort, there is always islam, but it has social implications that I dislike - muslims nowadays are not really a welcoming community, and are quite dogmatic. I would prefer to avoid hanging with them too much

>>20585449
Hinduism is the way and I think that we should start a hindu trend on this board as a sort of next step after Guenon. Guenonfag alredy prepared the ground for that with Advaita. This summer we have work to do, hindufags.

>>20585449
>I have read 3-4 times Crisis, the Introduction to Hindu Doctrines, the Reign of Quantity, and I also read the Symbolism of the Cross, Perspectives on initiation, Perspectives on islamic esotericism, and that's about it.
nice, you'll fit right in. you will find that there's many different strains of guenonian autism here.
may I ask wht type of Guenonian autism interests you the most? Like which type of Guenon books do you enjoy?
>Since I speak French
I could tell by how you use your "?" heh heh
there's a could Frenchfags who post here too
>that's where I found the explicit assimilation of Ishwara to the Logos for example
nice
>Have you read all of his books ?
the ones from the picrel chart, yes
I just got rid of a handful of them though...
sad times... :(
what about other Traditionalist authors?
any of particular interest to you?
> Buddhism
>somewhat risky
definitely, which is why i'm looking to lay a solid advaita foundation first
I am particularly interested in how Shingon relates to the Samurai and eventually take these insights and apply them to the Grail and Catholicism
>Eastern Orthodoxy still has something to offer, or maybe check if hinduism
>Islam
there are plenty of fags here who are into all three

>>20585549
>I am particularly interested in how Shingon relates to the Samurai and eventually take these insights and apply them to the Grail and Catholicism
syncretism is gay

>>20584931
>gonna try to get initiated into Shingon Buddhism over the next couple years before coming back to TradCath
Pretty sure Yahweh will send you to hell for worshiping Vairochana... and Allah might be pretty unhappy too (how did you read 20 books on Islam and not figure out the whole monotheism thing?), but then again it sounds like you don't believe in any of this stuff in the first place given you are a tradlarping namefag

>>20585570
it is not syncretism, I am tackling them one at a time and following the advice of Guenon.
It's more about finding the transcendent unity between the two
>>20585574
sounds like you haven't read guenon

>>20585581
There is no initation related to the Grail anymore and Catholicism is just exoterism + passive mysticism. Shingon is a metaphysical tradition. The transcendent unity is just a theoretical thing unless you achieve Moksha and you are free from forms and I really doubt that you will do that or even think about it. So I don't understand at all what you want to do.

>>20585581
Sounds like you haven't read the Bible. "Tradcath" my ass.

>>20585602
>So I don't understand at all what you want to do.
The reestablishment of the High Ghibelline Holy Roman Empire, of course
But in America
>>20585603
no need to seethe

>>20585616
kek no I am definitely right, larp/10. you don't have any interest in religion and are just a politics otaku

>>20585620
im an agent of the counter-initiation

>Guenon: Carlo, go study an eastern tradition and come back to the Catholic Church
>Carlo de Bracorens: okay Monsieur Guenon, I will go study Shingon Buddhism because I know Japanese and will come back to the Catholic Church
>Guenon: excellent Carlo, but I have changed my mind on the Catholic Church
>Carlo de Bracorens: despite your eagerness to jump ship to Sufism, I have discovered some legitimate strains of Catholicism thanks to Mr. Rama Coomaraswamy. nevertheless, I shall follow your original plan Monsieur Guenon
>/lit/chuds: *monkey noises* that's syncretism! LARP! LARP!

>>20585616
>The reestablishment of the High Ghibelline Holy Roman Empire, of course
But in America
what a larp

>>20582290
it's just the same 4-5 fanatics pushing them
it's how guenon works, and how islam works: create fanatics that won't stop forcing their bullshit, eventually a retard or two fall for it; that's how they reproduce
also, at least guenon, writes well, so it's easy to fall for his bullshit

>>20585742
seething europoor detected
as guenon says, centers of tradition can move throughout the world
no reason it cannot happen in America

>>20582187

>I fail to see how it would continue in the long term with idiot kids and relatives taking over.

Welcome to cyclicality. :}~<

>>20585754

>europoor

>>20585549

Well, I originally came to Guénon because of his anti-modern politics, basically. I was already a history nerd that liked Plato and was somewhat disillusioned by the perspectives of the industrial civilization. So, you can bet my interest was piqued by Crisis, Spiritual Authority & the Reign of Quantity (especially since I am an escathologyfag). But the more I dug, the more I was interested in the metaphysical stuff. It would be hard to give you a favorite, but Reign & Introduction to the study of hindu doctrines are very good for what they want to convey, I find. And what about you ?

What do you mean my '?' ??? Do french speakers use that in a recognisable way ?

Nah, I didn't really touch other traditionalist authors. If you could speak french, you would know that there is a lot of hysteria surrounding Guénon, basically you have a horde of people who accuse each other of having misread or misinterpreted Guénon lmao. Truth be told ,they're not that numerous, but they tend to endlessly flame and call each other crypto-modernists. Between that and Schuon, who does not seem so based after all, I am somewhat wary of anyone but Coomaraswamy

Do you know any Buddhists ? Why them specifically, if I may ask?

Yeah I noticed, probably the highest concentration of Guenautists I have seen in a while kek

>>20586008
> If you could speak french, you would know that there is a lot of hysteria surrounding Guénon, basically you have a horde of people who accuse each other of having misread or misinterpreted Guénon lmao.
I don't know french but I read in translation all of those french and italian websites surrounding Guenon and God damn it, they are autistic af.

>>20586008
>I originally came to Guénon because of his anti-modern politics
>Crisis, Spiritual Authority & the Reign of Quantity
>But the more I dug, the more I was interested in the metaphysical stuff.
>And what about you ?
nice, same shit here
I came from Nietzsche/Hitler -> Evola -> Guenon
>Do french speakers use that in a recognisable way ?
yes, frenchie
>I didn't really touch other traditionalist authors
You would like Charles Upton I bet, particularly System of the Antichrist and Vectors of the Counter-Initiation - which he wrote as sequels to Reign of Quantity.
He is basically Guenon + Alex Jones and explores pseudo & counter initiation in more recent times and how it related to the NWO and World Politics
https://www.bitchute.com/video/4Phy8GL0HnWq/
https://www.bitchute.com/video/F0KqmzTV3zcu/
>If you could speak french
man that's literally what every frenchfag says here hahaha
they all say there is a plethora of french texts and authors that /lit/ doesn't even know about related to Guenonianism
>they tend to endlessly flame and call each other crypto-modernists
kek sounds like /lit/
>Do you know any Buddhists ?
not IRL, just one anon here who underwent Vajrayana initiation and said it was legit
>Why them specifically, if I may ask?
[Top Secret]

Did Guenon believe in the afterlife the Quran detailed?

>>20586044
I swear, I'm starting to think that I should not pay attention to what people are saying about his books unless they belong to a trad organization.

>>20586060
He wrote that heaven and hell are states of the being, not places

>>20586061
>unless they belong to a trad organization
that doesn't make the right though, many do and still have contradictory opinions

>>20585811

>>20586062
yeah that makes sense, but did he write about who he thought would go to hell and go to heaven? is it just you go to heaven if you follow whatever religion you choose correctly?

>>20586071
>is it just you go to heaven if you follow whatever religion you choose correctly?
kind of
for Guenon as for sufi muslims and any other metaphysical traditions, heaven has hierarchies, there are those who are simply saved and those who are above them (at different levels of spiritual realization), the final stage in sufism is regarded either as the top of the paradise or as beyond the paradise (depends on the language and the metaphors used)

>>20586068
Original pic so i can masturbate properly

>>20586052

Kek, the Hitler-to-Guénon pipeline, I know someone just like that. It's quite funny desu

Mmmh my cover is blown. I need to lurk more to pass as an angloid it seems

Interesting. I saw his name pop-up on /lit/ charts, and the books seem to be based. Thanks anon

Actual insanity I swear, you have people like Xavier Accard who wrote a 1200-pages book about how Guénon was actually very well known by the French intelligentsia of his time (the names won't speak to you but famous people like André Malraux, André Gide or Simone Weil actually read him fervently). Then you have a 1000-pages book by a man under a pseudonym that apparently try to prove that Guénon was in contact with very strange people ('René Guénon et les Supérieurs Inconnus', iirc basically implying he is a crypto satanist ? ). And then you have people like this VERY obscure guy : https://mythesguenoniens.blogspot.com/?m=1 , whose premise is more or les that Guénon is not cool enough because he is too much of a priest and not a based Tantric aristocrat or something. It's litteraly endless.

So, do you plan to learn the language or something ? It seems like a prerequisite

>>20586152
don't flex too much frenchie, you are still a beginner until you learn italian and start reading this website: https://scienzasacra.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2020-07-18T00:32:00-07:00&max-results=20

>>20582187
>Guenon
Who?

>>20586062
How does fit in with the transmigration Guenon held to?

>>20586204
Transmigration = rebirth in a new state of the being, not a rebirth on earth
Metempsychosis = psychic residues of dead people that remained on earth transfered to other people, visions of "past lives" are not yours
Reincarnation = doesn't exist in traditional doctrines, is a modernist idea invented by french socialists to justify birth inequalities

>>20586152
>the Hitler-to-Guénon pipeline,
it all unironically started with Jordan Peterson lmaooo
>I need to lurk more to pass as an angloid it seems
kek
> René Guénon et les Supérieurs Inconnus
oh god, I know exactly the type of autism you are talking about because it was incredibly prevalent here in 2021. holy shit
have you ever heard of 'Les Sept Têtes Du Dragon Vert' by Teddy Legrand?

>So, do you plan to learn the language or something ?
yes, I am already proficient
but will need a year or two to get it to complete fluency levels and be able read hard texts and speak to actual monks

>>20586152

>the Hitler-to-Guénon pipeline

Mea culpa ... :D

>>20586068

Na und ... Österreich förster. :P

>>20586258
>Transmigration = rebirth in a new state of the being, not a rebirth on earth
Transmigration just means the subtle body going to a new physical body when the former dies. The Hindu texts never say that you wont transmigrate to other bodies on earth, in fact they say the opposite, in the Brihadaranyaka and Chandogya Upanishads are described at length a process whereby beings transmigrate and it very clearly is talking about returning to earth since there is a process involved that can be read as literal or symbolistic whereby clouds rain the subtle bodies onto earth in rain which are then taken into seeds and eaten by animals and then enter into fetuses etc. I already know from years of Guenon-posting that this error is almost certainly from that passage in Guenon's book where he talks about "not returning to the same state"; he never says not being "human" or not having "earthly life" in that passage; he is undoubtedly talking about not returning to the same state of determining conditions including past karma that influence the conditions of each birth; it's impossible that this could ever be exactly repeated

>>20582290
When you say it that way it sounds pretty cool.

>>20586345
Lmao, that's even funnier. Modernity is one hell of a rollercoaster. Since when have you been a Guénonfag then ? A few years ?

I didn't know about it, but it reminds me that Guénon was very wary of a book called 'Le masque vert' I think , basically saying that it's counter-initiatic propaganda. Green is a nasty color it seems

Huh, you are quite serious about this it seems. Well, Godspeed to you anon. Tell us if Buddhist monks approve of constant Guénonposting on /lit/

>>20582187
Nobody knows who that is.

>>20586535
>Since when have you been a Guénonfag then ? A few years ?
hard to say it was a gradual thing, idk, guenonfag probably started meming him like 3 years ago or so, I cannot remember. From there it probably took a year to actually read him and for Traditionalism to click.

u?
>Tell us if Buddhist monks approve of constant Guénonposting on /lit/
topkek

>>20582187
PBUH

>>20582785
Henri Corbin?
Stuff on Mulla Sadra?
https://www.zonebooks.org/books/20-the-act-of-being-the-philosophy-of-revelation-in-mulla-sadra
http://www.mullasadra.org/new_site/English/index.htm
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mulla-sadra/

>>20588889
Ah that book 'The Act of Being: The Philosophy of Revelation in Mullā Sadrā' looks fantastic, but I cant find as a pdf online anywhere.

>>20588889
What are the best English translations of mullah sadra?

Do I have to read Ibn Sina and Suhrawardi before i read him?