/lit/ - Literature

>>20559195
You’re most likely retarded considering you only read this book because your favorite retarded eceleb JewTuber—who makes videos for braindead 14 year olds—happen to have made a video about it as his attempt to LARP as anything other than some grown manchild who still plays video games

>>20559215
you do realise mishima was already a very famous writer before he made videos about him. stop fucking acting as if pewdiepie made mishima famous.

>>20559226
Never implied that, you 45-IQ smoothbrain. I merely stated that retards like you, incapable of understanding someone like Mishima, only started reading him simply because of your patheitc eceleb.

>>20559195
vita activa vs vita contemplativa
I didn't like it btw, but I don't regret reading it just for one quote.

It’s difficult.

>>20559232
Holy fuck. Blown the FUCK out.

>>20559232
and im just stating that you're an idiot for not being able to withhold your ranting about pewdiepie after someone just brought up mishima,

>>20559241
I was getting it then

Is there something i need to read before this to understand it better? Like other authors or some other Mishima's work. Will his novels help me?

>>20559215
>>20559232
Seethe

I don't think I got anything out of it. It was like reading poetry. Neat imagery, but ultimately nothing I could relate to.

he gay ha ha

>>20560227
If you read a lot, especially a lot of philosophy, it’s easier. Otherwise no. It’s just a difficult book with difficult language. Most of the people who endorse it don’t even really know what the author is saying.

>>20559258
don't samefag

>>20559232
Based. Fuck zoomers.

>>20560339
so i guess i should start with the greeks then (?). I always wanted to get into philosophy, any idea how to do it? My philosophy teacher back in highschool said that i should start with whatever i like. Was he right?

>>20559195
You’re retarded.

>>20559215
>>20559232
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>20560449
Thanks for proving my point, brainlet.

>>20560458
>Schizo ranting about e-celebs at the mention of Mishima
>Thanks for proving my point, brainlet.
Fucking hell I guess so

>>20560380
Honestly, it doesn’t matter. The guy wrote philosophical ideas but not in technically philosophical language. It’s just abstract and that’s why it’s difficult. I don’t like philosophy so I will have to refrain from giving particular advice other than this.

>>20560470
Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe, anon.

>>20559215
Why is /lit/ such an angry place?

>>20559215
actually true!

>>20559195
You're just a retard.

>>20560535
Explain it faggot

>>20560483
it's always been angry but recently a swarm of people from twitter have made it their mission to shit up any thread about right wing authors. This happens in threads about flannery o'connor, borges and lovecraft too

>>20560580
We don't spoon feed around here retard

>>20560606
>Lovecraft is right wing

>>20559232
This. It's hilarious how Mishima got so many new fans thinking he's a fascist writer like them and Pewdiepie. I bet they don't ever know that Mishima was gay. They must think it just "healthy masculinity" or some cope like that. Mishima isn't that good of a writer anyway.

>>20560483
It's being constantly raided by /leftypol/ and tranny servers because they think since reading is for "intellectuals" we're just misguided by being right wing and they will make us see the light, but all they can do is try to shame people, and since that doesn't work here, they start seething. Also like half of the jannies are net leftypol trannies who think they are fighting the culture war by removing right wing threads. Just let them be. It's fun seeing them making fools of themselves.

>>20560732
He wasn't?

>>20560886
He was too smart to be right wing. He just had some misguided racist beliefs because of his upbringing, but while still he had some problematic beliefs when he was older, he got much better with age.

>>20560933
>Lovecraft wasn't rightwing...because he just wasn't okay!

>>20560972
NTA, but no artist can be genuinely right winger. Art is all about innovation and empathy. Some authors like Mishima or Lovecraft may think of themselves as right wingers and have right wing beliefs, but they can easily be explained by their historic context. Their art, nonetheless, is still leftist. There can't be right wing art. It would be an oxymoron. It can only be propaganda. There's a reason why the term is "liberal arts" instead of "conservative arts."

>>20559195
Can‘t say whether the book is hard or not, but it sure is hard to get this book for a reasonable price

>>20561016
How can you be this absolutely brainwashed and retarded? You need to get help and FAST. Not even typical normgroids are this deeply entrenched in the system and its propaganda.

>>20561016
Good post, but I doubt /pol/tards even know what an oxymoron is so they will keep praising the based "right wing" writers they have never read

>>20561137
You’re the moron

>>20559246
They aren't.

>>20560972
The man clearly owned a thesaurus.

>>20561016
>>20560933

Spoken like American/Canadian trash.

>>20560972
>>20561127
>>20561282
Go back to /pol/. Why do you even come to /lit/ if you don't read?

>>20560606
>a swarm of people from twitter have made it their mission to shit up any thread about right wing authors...threads about flannery o'connor, borges and lovecraft too
>>20560732
>>Lovecraft is right wing
>>20560886
>He wasn't?
>>20560933
>>He was too smart to be right wing.
>>20561016
>>NTA, but no artist can be genuinely right winger.
>>20561137
>>Good post, but I doubt /pol/tards even know what an oxymoron is so they will keep praising the based "right wing" writers

>>20560606
Is it really intentional or is it just the summer IQ dip? They just seem like genuine politically indoctrinated retards to me so I doubt it's concerted.

>>20559195
>If you get it prove it by explaining it
Simple as.

>>20561016
>>20561137
>>20561307
When you say that art is about innovation and empathy and contrast it with "right-wing beliefs", implying that the right is without empathy or in some way more hateful, you proudly present your unfaltering ignorance.
Take Mishima, for example. Your ignorant worldview forces you to believe that Mishima the person, with his supposedly unempathetic and uninnovative right wing beliefs, could produce art only because it was "left wing"; You've either never read it or your brain has been so throughly damaged by propaganda that you have no hope.
His works are teeming with the love that comes from his beliefs: the love he had for a country under assault by western imperialism. The love he had for his people that were suffering under capitalism and the rising communism. The love he had for "purity." He was a complex man whose works reflect him and his beliefs. "Right wing art" is full of the same love, empathy, and innovation in the face of change that "left wing art" is.
In your limited worldview you cannot conceive of empathy or innovation coming from any source but the one that your favorite celebrities and youtubers claim it does.

>>20561335
I'm not one of the anons you're replying to, but the most interesting and only innovative thing about Mishima is his exploration of queerness in post war japan. His rejection of western imperialism is also interesting, but his obsession with purity or his nationalism are trite and hardly innovative.

>>20561364
Maybe your view of innovation is the changing from old to new. Innovation can be growth. He didn't espouse the old ways, he viewed them with love and a sort of nostalgia, but his creation is a synthesis, an innovation in the face of assault.
Innovation doesn't have to be the senseless destruction of what is, in the beliefs of some, to be old-fashioned and rigid but the growth and strengthening of an existing culture.

>>20561364
But further, you probably see his ideals as trite because you can't relate. You are probably the descendent of the westerners that destroyed his culture because it was a "trite" and old-fashioned obstacles in the way of their enlightened ways.

>>20561364
>his exploration of queerness
This is you.

>>20559215
>your favorite retarded eceleb JewTuber
Who?

>>20561364
>exploration of queerness
>rejection of western imperialism

>>20561506
>ohmySOYENCE someone heckin' rejected the people trying to fucking destroy him!! Interesting!!

>>20561428
Why are zoomers retarded and what the fuck are they even trying to do here?

>>20561527
I think someone was beating them up for having piercings and general faggotry. At least, that's my best guess.

>>20561527
They are redditors taking the train back home to post leftist talking points on /lit/, but a based kultchabro kicked their face and forced them to take out their nose piercing.

>>20560798
>It's hilarious how Mishima got so many new fans thinking he's a fascist writer...I bet they don't ever know that Mishima was gay
Fascism is inherently homoerotic
>a fascist writer like them and Pewdiepie
PDP, the world-renowned jackboot-wearing authoritarian and definitely not a Brighton sod

>>20561016
Screencapped and saved in my terrible posts folder. Bet you feel real dumb, huh?

>>20561519
I'm a summer zoomer. This past year, I have learned the most important analytical pathways into understanding anything is anti-West themed politics, whether a given figure is a minority (and how it relates to their empowerment), and whether he fucked/was fucked in the ass (note: if he agreed with being assigned the male gender after birth; obviously making special consideration of the feminine penis).

as he died he came

>>20561428
DAMN, look at the fear in that guy's eyes. That redditor won't be posting tonight, bros.

>>20561558

Mishima unironically wasn't gay. He just had a fetish for masculinity, but he never had sex with a man.

>>20559195
Its really about masculinity I guess and finding beauty in action / force as apposed to the usual presumption of beauty as a passive entity.
favouring physical strength as beauty as apposed to bookish intellectual types as beauty, this is paralleled in the book by the description of night and day as a metaphor for the two, whilst night (representing the passive beauty) is thought of as deep, dark, mysterious and silently powerful, it is instead in the light of the sun that true beauty is found in its force (representing true strength by barring all, not hiding).
he then applies this to men and argues that society as a whole should better favour the physically active as paragons of true beauty instead of quiet intellectualism, and that for true realisation to occur, the mind and body should be honed together.
most of mishima's work revolves around this concept and is largely married to his own personal life/views.
I'd recomend "confessions of a mask" as a more friendly approach to his philosophy as its largely autobiographical and better frames why he holds these views.
also, yes he was gay, that's why he goes into such great detail describing the beauty of masculinity, muscles made his pp hard.
I could be talking out my ass, but that was my takeaway.

>>20561592
lol, he only hung out at gay bars and had no children and vividly talked about the beauty of men and wrote a autobiographical book about repressing his homosexual desires, but no he totally wasn't gay

>>20561592
He realistically portrays homosexuality and heterosexuality. I doubt he was 100% straight but I also doubt the modern queer-positive propaganda that he was a raging homo. Everyone has each fact under a highly politically filtered microscope, missing the content of his entire character for one single easily propagandized facet.

>>20561606
He wasn't gay as modern gays are. His affairs weren't about holding hands and kissing in bed in a rainy day after a rough session of shitfucking. His romantic relationships with men were also extremely platonic and his sense of romance, when it came to men, was one of deep camaraderie, as opposed to the more conventionally romantic relationship he had with his wife. He also never fucked another man. The "sex" he would have with them would be weird shit like pretending he's a samurai commiting a sepuku while his lover pretended to assist him. He unironically wasn't gay. He just had a fetish for masculinity.

>>20561642
I'm with you in saying "he was gay lmao" is a mass oversimplification of his entire views around the subject.
also, I know he physically never had sex or daydreamed about getting his ass reamed by another man.
however, I think its pretty clear his fascination with masculinity strays away from an entirely platonic appreciation of it.
really it begs the question of even if he did dream about getting ass blasted 24/7 but never did it, does that make him gay ?
not that this matters that much really, but I dunno man, he seems to really like muscles a *bit* to much than a straight man would.
he writes about jerking off to the painting of st sebastian getting executed, he adores young men dying to the point of jacking off to a physical picture of a man, thats pretty gay to me.

>>20561016
Good bait.

>>20560318
Kek

>>20561016
Based absolute retard

>>20561573
That's my OC.

>>20559215
You say the OP is dumb yet you're the one being anti-semiotic huh.... funny. heh.

>>20560933

Lovecraft hated niggers and believed in the supremacy of Anglo-Saxons until the day he died. He only went from opposing capitalism and modernity for aristocratic reasons, to opposing capitalism and modernity for socialist ones. And that was solely due to the Great Depression.

His gay Jewish friend Samuel Loveman even destroyed all of their correspondence after Lovecraft died, because he was butthurt that Lovecraft still hated fags and Jews.

>>20559215
outed yourself lmao
absolute retard

>>20562471
>anti-semiotic
Ur Faggotism.

>>20561606
>had no children
he was married and had a daughter and a son you idiot

>>20561016
>There's a reason why the term is "liberal arts" instead of "conservative arts."
Ir should be mandatory to know basic ancients Greek before posting here

>jap violently raids a government building and tries to stage a coup
>gets statues and a national holiday
>american boomers walk into a capitol building
>solitary confinement

>repressed homo
>goes to Brazil
>becomes full homo
Huh, who would have thought?

>>20561691
Fags automatically misread overt masculinity as homoerotic and depictions of religious ecstasy as carnal. Something wrong with them.

>>20560933
This is an absurd cope. How can you (correctly) recognize that someone like H.P Lovecraft is intelligent, more so than you, yet then resort to the idea that his beliefs you dislike are "misguided" because of "upbringing"?
The answer is simple - he was more intelligent than you. He therefore doesn't need some 21st century dimwit pseud larping as an intellectual to tell him his opinions about niggers (that are validated even more today by research) are wrong. Your IQ is at least 2 standard deviations lower than his.
The entire semantics at play here that "Lovecraft was too smart to be rightwing!" yet still was should indicate how room temp IQ you are and that you shouldn't attempt to review the beliefs of a genius

>>20561016
>Art is all about innovation and empathy
>therefore artists cannot be right-wing
Even besides the midwit direction-brain of believing in a right-left dichotomy, you're still retarded. Not wanting brown people to come and destroy your civilization isn't a lack of "empathy", that's a completely absurd characterization. If anything his racism is founded on empathy for his own race, something which you would be aware of if you weren't a spiteful mutant. Your kind's tacitly accepted monopoly on empathy is bizarre and doesn't even exist, as you people don't empathize with anyone, not even brown people; you only see them as a form of spiteful revenge against whites. This insane attempt to psychologize away their beliefs as "historic context" makes absolutely no sense whatsoever either and is founded on presuppositions and fallacies that make no sense. No, their art is not "leftist". No, there can and is "right wing" (to approximate) art.
>There's a reason why the term is "liberal arts" instead of "conservative arts."
How stupid are you? Are you seriously 2 digit IQ? Do you honestly believe that "liberal" in liberal arts pertains to liberalism? This is etymological midwittery almost as bad as Christian Israelites. Read a book for once.

>>20559195
The book is one long seethe against Dazai. If you read his description of the neurotic intellectual type you might be thinking he is talking about his former self, when in reality it\s a attack on Dazai for humiliating him at a party.

Mishima was so mad that he went on about it 2 decades after Dazai died.

>>20559232
Idiots pretend they don't understand what you're saying. You outed all Mishima meme-trads.

>>20561598
good post

>>20564023
Kek based

>>20560380
Start with Nietzsche

>>20564023
>>20564353
Not even kidding

>>20561995
giwtwm

>>20561315
It's not concerted in the sense that it's not organized, but in the sense that they actively spam any thread or mention of right wing authors.

>>20562820
I don't have an ax to grind one way or another, but I remember being very surprised - I mean really taken aback - by some late letters by Lovecraft in which he more or less renounced his racism that were posted on /lit/, oh, a year or so ago. They appeared to be taken from a pdf scan of one of those volumes of his collected letters, some of which (but not all, if memory serves) are on libgen.

>>20560798
Unless you can read Japanese (which I sincerely doubt), this statement is beyond meaningless and has hit an entire new realm of absolute drivel

I have most of Mishima's work what should I start with? Is there a preferred path through his works that will give me a better understanding of his writings and mind?

its getting me hard if thats what you mean

>>20566222

>>20566217
Confessions of a mask

>>20566217
Start with Spring Snow. The tetrology is Mishima.

>>20564866
source?

>>20566217
Confessions of a Mask so you get a good idea of his style, life and obsessions. It's one of his best too. Then The Sailor Who Fell From Grace With The Sea, because it's one of the greatest novels ever written. After that, if you want something longer, you can go after the tetralogy. If you want something shorter, The Sound of Waves or Forbidden Color. Sun And Steel too if you are interested in his philosophy. I'd say those are the essentials.

>>20561016
Best post on this thread and all the /lit/tards are hating on it kek. Art belongs to the left. Everyone knows this.

>>20567221
>t.

>>20566217
Confessions of a Mask > Sun and Steel > Sailor who fell with grace > Star
those are the ones I've read, really Mask and Sun and steel should be enough to give you his shtick.
Star was pretty much the only one that was different in subject matter.

>>20563248
u got a stinky poopy face haha

>>20561016
They hate you because you told them the truth

>>20559195
imagine reading a japanese book in english. It's hard because the translator can't both capture the original meaning without fucking up the syntax or using uncommon synonyms to capture a shred of the foreign concepts. So the translator has to choose between loooocalizing or making the book "hard." Instead of bitching-- go and learn the first 1000 words of Japanese, read through a GRAMMAR book, and then start reading Sun and Steel in the way it was originally intended to be read.
> b-but I don't have time!!
stfu pussy, you do have time. you're on 4chan right now, and you have time to read books.
>I-I don't want to learn nipponese! It's too hard!!
Then don't read a Japanese book, retard. I will never read a book unless it's in its original language, because TRANSlators invent shit that wasn't there and distort the meaning. I won't be playing your game of telephone, I will be talking to the dude directly.

>>20566573
The Life and Death of Yukio Mishima

i like other mishima books, but i read like the first chapter of this shit and decided i didn't want to waste my time. i think he has interesting things to say in it, but he's not good at explaining them.

>>20559215
>>20559232
Nic work, anon.

>>20561016
9/10 bait

>>20561137
2/10 bait

>>20566217
Confessions of a mask for sure