/lit/ - Literature

Comfy

>>20545723
It's all on the permanent record, you can go look.

I started visiting sometime in 2014, though very infrequently (I was mainly on /mu/). Not sure if that counts as old. What I remember is Evola being the meme Guenon is now. There was much more meme-trilogy posting - people were more interested in literature in general; there was a bit less "philosophy" and theology, much less esotericist schizobabble.
It was about as shit as it is today. It was noticeably worse for around two years after Trump's election, but it stabilised back into the current state.
Warosu archive goes really far back so you can check it yourself.

>>20545723
They read more than they do now. It also wasn’t a battleground for every difference in opinion. They also didn’t have as big of chips on their shoulder, they had a self deprecating sense of humor. It was better

More discussions of actual literature. Less discussions of theology and philosophy.
Things got pretty insufferable from 2016 to 2018 when we would always have multiple simultaneous Peterson threads by zoomers who had just learned who Michael Foucault was and wanted to fight people about him.
Butterfly was even worse.

>>20545985
This. Also not as many Call of the Crocodile threads

Prior to 2013 it's a totally different board. It has been general philosophy, humanities, and social science discussion since roughly then, but in 2013 it was 50/50 split with Lit and English majors, and the farther back you go the more dominant the latter become. Past a certain point it's basically some reddit board about books. Vaguely left leaning in the pre-politicization of the internet way, but leaning a little toward today's Twitter leftist vibe where they're all snarky gay upper middle class pansexual types who say cringe shit like "althusser is my jam yo" despite knowing nothing about Marxism. Also the central fact of /lit/ prior to 2014~ was tripfags. Imagine 3-8 Butterflies or that dude weed tripfag from the wwoym threads active and talking amongst themselves at all times. Very reddit/twitter feeling to the whole thing.

From 2013-2018 it progressively assumed the philosophy humanities and social science dominance of today. It also got busier I think. Schizos, fads, and shills come and go.

I would say board quality only really noticeably drops when the "general culture war chitchat" or "general twitter alt-lifestyle blogger chitchat" elements of the board metastasize, which brings in influxes of zoomers, which normalizes this kind of discourse, which brings in more zoomers, until every other thread is about e-celebs and extremely vague crap like whether eating an all-meat diet will get you a Catholic waifu and whether Nietzsche would have approved of some podcast grifter's basic bitch list of most "sigma" poets. We're currently in one of the worst phases of this I've ever seen and I wonder if this is the final tipping point. The longer this goes on, the longer the pressurized minority of effortposters will start to regard the board as little more than a discord channel for zoomers to talk about nothing. Presumably there will be a point of no return, maybe it already happened.

In 2011, everyone was posting about Ayn Rand and Tao Lin. The "go to bed, Tao" meme was in full force and books like Atlas Shrugged and Fountainhead were the most talked about, I remember. Substantive discussion of literature was more infrequent than it was today, and critics were more scathing and vitriolic in their critiques.

>>20546264
Sometime in the last year /lit/ completely fell off a cliff. It seemed so sudden

I visited the archives and I've been here since 2019. What I could say is that old lit looked like old 2ch from jp. Young american culture just impregnated the whole thing. There were memes but they were not the center of humor attention. It was more about what humor you could bring with simple words

>>20546351
Blame postmodern culture and the rise of the internet addiction mingled with social media + truncated words. This is actually a bad place if you want to become a writer. I legitimately think that /lit/ hinders your writing activities (psychologically)

>>20545723
Old /lit/ was based schizophrenic cryptofascism
New /lit/ is cringe autistic normal fascism

>>20546367
It's just zoomers, they can't write or think. When a normal person goes to post something, they first have a thought, and then they have to find words adequate to the thought and bend the framework of their expression to do the thought justice. Zoomers have a thought, then go to post, but as soon as they hit the technical limitations of the posting format (140 characters on twitter, or simply too lazy to write a lot because they're on their phone), they adjust the THOUGHT to fit the FORMAT.

So where a normal person would have taken their vague feeling of dislike for another post and translated it into a joke, or an insult with an interesting twist, or even a real critique of that post, the zoomer only has a split second to decide which ready-made stock expression he's going to use. That's why they love upvoting and downvoting so much, or "liking," because they can participate in the social phenomenon without the burden of thinking.

As more and more of humanity is raised on phones instead of computers their thought itself will mold to the containers it is accustomed to. It won't even be an issue of having a thought and then forcing it to fit, it will already be form-fitted because it was raised in that environment and knows nothing else.

>>20546264
>We're currently in one of the worst phases of this I've ever seen and I wonder if this is the final tipping point. The longer this goes on, the longer the pressurized minority of effortposters will start to regard the board as little more than a discord channel for zoomers to talk about nothing. Presumably there will be a point of no return, maybe it already happened.

Bad for writers then, and even somewhat normal people;

>>20546390
you have never accomplished anything in your 30 some odd years you insignificant fat midwit.
You've been mentally poisoned by what your parents generation said about you.
Its simply a matter of fact that the large majority of any generation are mouth breathing retards.
You are no different, you obese pubescent brained bald-headed loser.

>>20546351
Yeah agreed. I remember having good threads in 2019 and 2020. Last year the quality dipped all of a sudden and I’m not sure why, it’s like all the best posters just decided to leave one day

>>20546264
back in the day i used to find the "guy who rewrites shakespeare verse or french philosophy in the form of rap lyrics" posters annoying as hell. now i'd suck all their dicks if it guaranteed their return

>>20546421
Yep. I noticed there was a correlation between low quality reading threads (WAYCR, top_, post and get a rec, stack threads, etc) and discussion about books. Those threads may have been annoying at times, but I believe that they were at least a sign of some readers. Now that those threads dried up, most discussion disappeared, even longtime lit favorites don’t get mentioned nearly as often. I do think many readers jumped ship in the last year. Even though literary discussion was poor beforehand, that school shooting was like Night of the Long Knives here. That night was eye opening to what this board has become.

>>20546390
>zoomers zoomers zoomers
How do you know this? Are you a zoomer describing what your own thought process is like? Are you in a place where you are able to accurately observe zoomers and how they interact with the internet? Is this something you've studied and investigated or did you just have an interesting idea that initially made sense and you've built this theory around it and wanted to pin it on the zoomers because you don't like them? Seriously, every time somebody on this site starts ranting about zoomers they sound more disconnected and delusional than the baby boomers on Facebook.

>>20546407
>proving his point

>>20546407
>>20546509
Zoomer jimmies are rustled. You faggots have sunk this board

>there are now people nostalgic 2016-2019 /lit/
fucking hell how low can your standards get

>>20546509
Zoomers are retarded and it only takes a few minutes of scrolling /lit/ to realize their impact:
>Frog threads
Zoomers.
>Recommend me a book for my [insert whimsical mental illness here]
Zoomers.
>Lefty-Tranny/pol/ raids
Zoomers.
>e-reader threads
Zoomers.

>>20545723
See for yourself, archive goes back to 2010
>>/lit/?task=search2&search_ord=old

>>20546558
Yes, despite the fact that this is an anonymous imageboard, you can still accurately tell the ages of the (anonymous) users based on the kinds of posts they make.

>>20546558
Who's in charge of the non-lefty /pol/ raids?

>>20546543
i want at least twelve jordan peterson threads up AT ALL TIMES

>>20546573
gpt-3 bots

>>20546558
Conveniently left out /pol/tards

>>20546543

Quentin was unironically the most influential /lit/poster ever.

>>20545723
Snarky but not mean spirited like it is now. More anons read.

>>20546569
You're right, it is anonymous. But just by your post I can tell you're a zoomer. No one but an overly sensitive zoomer could possibly get that ass blasted over a harmless observation.

It was alright. People would spam random screenshots from the DFW interview. Maybe it was just me but all the authors and philosophers felt more novel because there hadn't been 1,000+ threads made about them yet. We also had these meme novels on google docs where everyone would write random stuff, was kind of dumb but it was fun

>>20547057
and can't forget all the Tao Lin meme threads. Kind of strange how he is a literal who here now, he was one of the most memed authors

>>20547062
that was self-promotion from himself. i found it so tedious at the time but unlike the ppl that shill here now tao was kind of a real author, i mean i bought his book at barnes and noble, that counts for something right, but then it turns out his dad is super rich so the money he got from his brief and wondrous writing career probably didn't move the needle on his family wealth anyways.

I unironically miss the Buddhism vs Advaita threads from over Covid. DK needs to get his act together and start making more Right-Wing Dharma Squads episodes.

>>20546736
You clearly don't read yourself if you don't realize that conjugation can be interpreted as both past and present.

>>20547146
I understand what he means and you do too. Don’t be an obtuse ass

>>20547158
Yes, he means that more people read now, which is why they are more hostile. It's hard to be hostile about something you are not even passionate enough to read.

>that one /lit/ tinychat group that would always hang and do webcam chats
>they even had their own memes

>>20545804
Before then: more regular possibility of focused, topical discussion and quality recommendations especially of niche lit. But that could be said of the site as a whole. Hell, there was a time where r9k proxied these sorts of history and philosophy discussions in the days before simpocalypse.

>>20546407
>Its simply a matter of fact that the large majority of any generation are mouth breathing retards.
And yours significantly increased that proportion dilate

>>20547188
oh shit father dubs! blast from the past man far out! i even went into one of those tinychats once, i didn't put on my camera but i lurked. i just remember there was an asian kid who had read ulysses and hobbes and some white ppl that were forgettable and didn't seem to read. got some chuckles out of it, decent waste of a summer evening.

>>20546674
This was always said of Deep & Edgy

>>20545723
>What was old /lit/ like?
See for yourself.
2010
>>/lit/?task=page&page=46500
Post count (most the « ???????? » are me)
>>/lit/reports/post-count

>>20545723
I was mentioned here

>>/lit/thread/S15880491#p15882391

>>20547243
Meme ideology. Sovietism was already nationalistic enough.

>>20545723
I've been here since 2014. 2014-2018: Old /lit/ was predomninantly a leftist English major annoyed at the low quality prose of the typical slam poet and intersectionalist. It was mostly naive. They loved Ulysses, Gravity's Rainbow, and Infinite Jest because they were big books with big, weird words that were hard to understand. Old /lit/ posted DFW reactions to everything, knew nothing of theology, and had a good smattering of hyper-autistic philosophers - they idolized MFA programs like Iowa Writer's Workshop or other programs and had an obsession for the standard European fiction writers (Tolstoy Dosto, Flaubert, Proust etc.). The election breaking the news media mixed with online dating and metoo shifted lit from merely a group of men who were largely centrist to right-wing reactionaries because progressivism's offer of casual sex was no longer on the table. Additionally, old /lit/ HATED technology and had threads about the soul-death of techno-capitalism regularly. This board is largely better now if you're on it for more than literary fiction otherwise it's worse.

>>20547165
Nevermind then, you’re retarded and not obtuse if you believe lit reads more now than in years past

>>20547242
>>20547243

Is there any place like it or the way is just to leave and isolate irl nowadays ?

>>20547252
I've moved past it on my channel and am more into metaphysics and epistemology and general ethics than anything else

I would say I'm more third position than anything these days and while I think current society needs reformed, I'm influenced by Hobbes and Schopenhauer but don't agree with excess government intervention in our current state in the west. overall I favor protectionist economic policies and some unionism but feel that Hobbes' law of the sovereign can only exist in moral objective states.

>>20547263
>It was mostly naive.
Why, because they weren't pissing their pants about le Western civ being in heckin tatters all the time?

>>20547277
someone also mentioned liking my channel and yeah I do have trouble losing weight but thanks to lifting heavy objects constantly my arms are pretty good

>>/lit/thread/S18036782#p18037447

>>20547280
>Why, because they weren't pissing their pants about le Western civ being in heckin tatters all the time?
Yes

>>20547272
You're retarded if you think you know the answer. Every person I've seen complaining about /lit/ not reading almost unilaterally turns out to be someone angry that /lit/ isn't reading their favorite books.

>>20546674
No. Fuck off, newfag

>>20547062
>>20547073
Basically, F. Gardner is Tao Lin for newfags.

>>20547316
So you like how lit is now?

>>20545723
Better

Browsing since 2012. The meme trilogy used to rule the roost and there was basically 0 schizoposting, christcucking, or /pol/bait threads. It was fairly boring and exclusively literary but overall greater in soul and engagement. There have been a few amusing developments in recent years but basically /lit/ is a shithole Twitter backwater now and I miss how it once was.

>>20547242

Hey hey hey, the oldest anon inside lit right now.
Oh god damn, I need to quit this place, i need to quit the internet

>>20545804
>2014 was 8 years ago

Its just strange, I remember discovering "hard books" when I was 20yo, and then this place in 2015. Now it is like "fuck this crap". Everyone just feels like functional addicts inside their phones

this one is more fitting to be the final

>>20545804
I was also a /mu/tant until I started browsing /lit/. We probably started browsing around the same time. The /lit/ 100 was a much bigger deal. People seemed to take reading more seriously. /pol/, /his/, /x/, /r9k/, and reddit were contained. Less shilling besides NYRB threads. There were better and more in-depth discussions, especially about poetry. Rimbaud was big. John Williams’s Stoner was big. More people telling you that Holden sexually assaulted—or raped, according to some—Phoebe. Gregor Samsa was a hermit crab or maybe a beetle but definitely not a cockroach. Nabakov was more popular. Short story threads were more common. There was better advice and less e-celeb/twitter speak. Fewer religious threads, but those who were well-read had worth-while conversations in them. And I was somewhat happy.

>>20547276
Eh? What do you mean?

>>20547277
Well, support absolute unionism of the masses and you can nullify governments and have sensible localized economies sans money. I don’t care about Hobbes. The tiger is great tho.

>>20547559
We all gotta quit. I have a rough plan for what we do afterwards. (Aside from romping around the forest in cap, stockings and buttplug for fun)

>>20547569
Exactly.
>>20547606
Nice.

>>20546328
>go to bed Tao meme

Wtf. So history really does repeat itself. I’ve seen people say “go to bed Gardner” more times than I can count

>>20546328
Ayn Rand posting was a bannable offense.

>>20547650
Gardnerposting has become the new Taoposting.

>>20547650
You are actually pathetic.

>>20547650
>>20547655
fuck off

>>20547650
F Gardner is way more memeable. The dude’s a flat earther, is a character in his own books and one of his books (Jigoku) is a Pokemon knockoff. More like Chrischan than Tao Lin to be honest.

>>20547656
Go to bed Tao.

>>20545804
To be fair, all the threads you speak of are pretty easy to ignore. For all I care, the /lit/ I interact with now is not too different from the /lit/ I interacted with for the first time about ten years ago. It's one of the last few boards on this site still slightly worth browsing, not as bad as say, /sci/. I really pray one day /sci/ becomes a place where they discuss actual science again
>>20546353
But this does seem to be the case

>>20545723
People read and discuss books.

>>20545723
>>20547263
It's as the last paragraph in >>20546264 says, the problem occurs when things that represent a specific board culture are eclipsed by generic shit that you can find in slightly different forms on any site where people discuss anything. There might even be more "effortposts" now, in the sense of long, serious posts trying to push some esoteric/metaphysical/religious viewpoint, but I don't know that they're synthesizing new ideas or points of view as much as just trying to proselytize from their chosen philosopher and flex their expertise in the subject. Basically my point is I don't care about someone regurgitating some flavor of the month spirituality, I could get a better version of that by just going to the source (and I assume much of those threads is taken up by repetitive arguments that are even less productive).

What I miss is having the feeling of a unique, organic, living community and culture, rather than customs and conversations imported from everywhere else and altered to be slightly more "refined", along with the occasional preserved relic of ye olde days.

>>20545723
Probably better, today it's just full of sexually obsessed zoomers. I joined /lit/ and the rest of 4chan (I knew before about the website but never posted due to the weird format) in 2020 after I got an interest in Guenon and searching his name on google images brought me to /lit/ threads from warosu about guenonfag.

>>20547663
Gardner is also a tradcath

>>20545723
Lots of novels, infinite jest crap, more trips, more tranny commies. /lit/ has grown up since.

>>20546390
Making this about generations instead of just a general trend kind of poisoned an otherwise interesting and insightful post.

>>20546573
me

It went to shit as soon as butterfly embraced this site.

>>20545723
It was less gay

>>20548521
the only way forward for the post-smartphone internet is closed communities with heavy vetting and moderation. which is obviously never gonna fly on here, so shit's fucked

>>20548731
I wouldn't say that's necessarily right, bringing in new people is necessary whether those people will contribute anything of quality or not, inculcation is a big part of the function of any community like this; what you need is a community which can gain and lose members in a natural, balanced way, rather than by mass immigration.

The problem is really, as that other post said, the metastasis of the culture war. Without the culture war, this place had no reason to be constantly cross-pollinating with other communities, it was able to develop in relative isolation. Now it is conceived of as having some sort of "common cause" with a larger collective of communities, which has a powerful homogenizing effect upon all of them, and relatively speaking more so here because of the smaller and more niche nature of the original community. Of course for that same reason, /lit/ will always provide a relatively more intelligent and refined version of the discussions happening in other culture war spheres, but as long as that connection and commonality persists, it will nevertheless be downstream from the overall culture war, and will not control its own destiny in terms of the ethos and fundamental concerns of the discussion.

And with those borrowed topics of conversation come borrowed forms of conversation, scripts for how arguments play out, memes readymade for various situations, all of which contribute to the removal of the need the board once had for the creation of original forms. Of course there were the generic forms inherited from 4chan as a whole, but things needed to be hammered out to fit the specific discussion patterns and topics for this specific board. If you can bring in foreign discussion topics, the customs/memes associated with those topics are already established at a sufficiently detailed level and don't need to be altered.

Example: basedjaks in themselves aren't fundamentally different from older 4chan memes that were used by /lit/ in earlier times. They are highly exploitable and any philosopher/author could be represented by one if people had the desire to do so, but I can only really remember seeing a Greek one, a Christian one and a Nietzsche one, because those fit into the Christian/Pagan established discussion paradigm (yes, I'm sure there are other examples of it being adapted to /lit/ here and there, my point is just that its potential is not anywhere near being fully exploited).

So things like that can serve as an illustration of the lack of vitality in board culture, even if there are many more posters (and perhaps a greater number of well-informed posts on the board at any given time) than there used to be.

>>20548521
What do you want to see out of an "effort post" then?

>>20549002
Now that I think about it, they can probably be useful in the sense of providing a quicker summary of something for those who are not interested enough to read the whole book. But it still seems like those types of posts get redundant pretty fast, the same few people posting about the same few specific things that they have knowledge of. Frater is slightly different because even though he reposts the same shit time and time again, he at least has an "angle" on the things he's talking about, retarded as that angle may be at times. It's annoying to have "big personalities" enforcing themselves too much, but that would be less noticeable if the board in general wasn't so lacking in personality. So that's what I want, novel perspectives and/or personal engagement with the discussion at hand, not a generic book report delivered with an air of superiority (I am totally guilty of that myself though).

>>20545723
As others have said, the meme trilogy was much more prevalent.
DFW was very big and his writing style was mimicked in a lot of posts for comedic effect.
other than that, picrel is a great little time capsule

>>20545723
better

>>20547609
Yeah, back then everyone loved Nabokov and feelings were mixed about Dostoevsky. Now it seems the opposite.

>>20546650
Making an /incel/ board would improve the quality of all the other boards.

>>20549249
Dostoyevsky is polarizing today because of Christianity

>>20546351
I was on the board from 2016-2020 and then took a break for about 18 months. When I returned this year, the collapse was obvious. There are so many more trash threads, so many fewer actual book discussions. All you can find now is Greeks, Lolita, Nietzsche, and the bible.

Oldlit from what I've been told was a place where tripfags like Butterfly were made to feel welcome. Thank God for progress.

>>20549313
butterfly is better than 90% of the posters that we have at this moment

>>20545985
What happened to butterfly

>>20546558
Zoomers.
>I can't read because my smartphone interrupts me thread
Zoomers.
>you guys are lying about how much you read thread
Zoomers.
>how do you remember what you read thread
Zoomers.
>I want to learn how to read thread

Everyone is saying /lit is shit now, but honestly I’ve seen better threads this year than the past 4-6 years.

There are more daily poem threads, I would only see these once every few weeks, now I see one almos everyday, thanks to anon who is doing them.
There have been more discussions on Marx both pro and con, without turning the thread to shit right away.
I see more read alongs.

We need the history prof anon, the anon that work at a publishing house, and self-publishing anon- Shitkickers, back.

>>20549318
I've never, not once, seen Butterfly make an interesting thread about literature, or even contribute to one with something of substance.

>>20548642
That was 2010
>>20549329
I left about the time it got worse. I did come back and tried, but the spam and malcontents drown me out, so I feel I mostly gave up. I made recommendations where I could, reported often. Nothing helps. I gave up and left again.

>>20549349
Because you’re not interested in the things I am.
Which are likely off topic bitching about cliches and words while frog posting

>>20549395

>>20549395
>>20549400
Is this you

>>20549400
is me actually

>>20549395
Faggot.

>>20548979
I agree with this. When I see a thread, I already know how it’s going to go, with cookie cutter replies

>>20549410
Yuh

>>20549461
Marry me.

>>20549454
Absolutely, but that was true back then to some extent as well, the difference is that the predictable replies would at least have been ones that were native to this board, and over time the patterns would shift due to developments coming from the board itself, not due to developments from outside; whereas now it's predictable, ignoring minor superficial details, even for someone who is new to the board, provided they're familiar with the general culture-war milieu.

>>20549348
Poem threads are nice, they only get replies when they have some kind of meme value though, but perhaps some poems really don't have much room for analysis? Anyway it's true that it's not all bad, but the negatives are too fundamental to be outweighed.

>Is reading a waste of time?
Common thread.

Posting here is a waste of time. Why we do it is a lazy habit, whether looking for information or a pitiful proxy relationship, it’s just a waste now. I’ve used it as cheap entertainment.

>>20549461
Damn you're cute

Since the thread got all self-reflective, can anyone explain why the fuck there's so many threads where OP doesn't respond? Take for example >>20546399 - he asked a question, people answered, he never says either "thanks" or asks any further questions. I swear like 3/4 threads that start with a question end up like this.

>>20549502
Idk but I feel as though there are a lot of bots now. Very sinister

>>20549461
I need proof. Why would someone so beautiful want to be on 4chan let alone come back to it.

>thread gets derailed by butterfag simps

>>20549479
I think cookie cutter replies from board culture are okay. They develop organically and over time. The culture war has poisoned everything. I enjoy reading and this board no longer has the feel of a culture developed from reading. It’s mostly anons using books for identity politics now( using books as an avatar to signal who they are). The culture war has made every thread a battlefield. No one seems to have eclectic taste anymore. They only read, or say they read, books they can easily define themselves with, and those books usually fit in a nice little box. At this point, lit is an “intellectual” version of b, pol, r9k, x, etc.

>>20549538
>derailed
Check the OP

>>20549581
Well, it came from reading and from the cultural capital associated with the idea of reading, so it's not like it was super high level or great (and there were certainly plenty of retarded arguments and people baiting, picking fights, etc.), it's just that there wasn't some "other thing" that everything led back to, it all had to be about either reading or the pseudointellectual ideal of the "literary lifestyle" (another term you never see on here anymore), and those were not subjects that already had established online cultures elsewhere so the culture around them here was "special", whether you want to take that in its positive or negative connotation.

I would love to have a forum like what you're describing, where people are sincere and discuss calmly and in good faith, but /lit/ was never like that, it just used to have its own particular, distinguishable character.

>>20549075
I don't think the discussion of books lends itself to novelty.

>>20549626
Neck yourself.

>>20549747
Does the discussion of novels lend itself to booklty?

>>20549666
I always say that /lit/ may have never been great but it’s better than it’s current form. The “literary lifestyle” and one upping elitist attitude lent itself better to a forum about literature than what we have now, which is mainly political and belief driven

>>20547057
The google docs novels were the most impressive aspect to old /lit/

Also there were more discord server links floating around. 90% of the people in them were narcissistic sociopaths but they were smart and actually read books.

I think discord killed /lit/. That, and for anyone young and decently intelligent, wasting their thoughts on anonymous image boards instead of sharing them with friends becomes too tragic the older you become.
That's my theory.

>>20549770
Take it easy, anon. Here, take a stogie. This one's on da haus.

>>20549747
Then why do multiple critics write about the same book, why are there multiple readings of the same philosopher? Clearly there is more than one way of interpreting a given work, clearly there is the option of exercising some creativity, particularly in a format that is all about absolute freedom of discussion.

And if you include the many, many, many, many, many serious works that are hardly ever brought up, let alone discussed in depth, then there is a massive untapped potential for novelty with regard to this board in particular.

But I don't really mind it and as I said it's certainly not useless, I just don't think the presence of some solid quality but unexciting posts by relatively educated people is enough to make up for the soullessness of the board in its current state.

>>20549782
Yeah, the basic force behind these discussions is narcissism as >>20549841 points out, but when that force is put in more of a vacuum where it has to make its own way, it will make something potentially interesting. As it is now, it takes the path of least resistance to the pre-set topics. That and the fact that the types it attracts are similar in some ways but different in other significant ways, e.g. potentially much lower in openness to experience, though I doubt it's quite as simple as that.

>>20549841
Sure, but if it was just brain drain it would just be similar but lower quality and slower. There's obviously been an influx that has altered the fundamental character of the board.

>>20549348
piss off jason

>>20549400
Who?

>>20549666
>the "literary lifestyle"
aka skin in the game. bring it back

>>20549871
>there’s obviously been an influx which has altered the fundamental character of this board
This. And they chased the normal people and readers away

>>20545985
How do we go back to it?

>>20549329
Last thing I heard about Butterfly was that F. Gardner made her a character in his books

>>20546509
>Seriously, every time somebody on this site starts ranting about zoomers they sound more disconnected and delusional than the baby boomers on Facebook.

Because they're millennials. Millennials have no culture. No great works of art, no great music, absolutely fuck all. They know that nobody will remember them. Boomers, Gen-X, Silents, even Zoomers; they all have shit that people will remember them for, for better or for worse. But the millennial is a glorified speedbump. They like to glorify the nineties and take credit for it, even though that was all Gen-X's work. Their decade is the noughties, full of the cringiest shit ever made: nu-metal, crunkcore, scene/emo, edgelording, proto-woke, the works. There may be individual millennials who are chill, but the vast majority are generally worthless. They belittle zoomers because it's their way of admitting that their parents (that BOOMERS) were right all along, so they regurgitate the same exact shit they said was problematic/degenerate at Gen Z to feel powerful. That's right. They parrot their parents. Never forget that millennials grew up on Attitude Era wrestling, classic MTV/Simpsons, all that shit only to turn into the most obnoxious wingcucks. They have to grift and virtue signal about "muh libs" or whatever to own their parents.

>>20546558

I love when millennials blame zoomers for the shit they themselves do. But what do you expect from millennials? Always blaming everyone else but themselves.

>I can't get a job!
Boomers
>I can't get laid!
Men/Women
>I don't like how this franchise is!
Zoomers
>I don't like how my country is!
Jews

And so on and so forth. Millennials are losers. They're jealous of zoomers because they can't cope with aging, and all this ZOOM-ZOOM bad shit is just them impotently raging. I can't wait for Gen Z to come along and succeed despite the corona-recession and Milennials transfer wholesale all their emotional baggage to teenagers 1-2 decades younger than they are.

>>20550670
>>20550695
The absolute seethe and time taken to post this. Every generation is going down and down until the collapse that the greedy boomers precipitated

>>20547655
Gardnerposting is Taoposting on steroids.

>>20550735

It did not take me that much time, actually. But I know Diet Boomers like yourselves are desperate for responses. That being said, you're right. Every generation IS going down and down, but you're not any better than the boomers you refer to. Did you know shit was fucked LONG before the boomers? Like, decades, even a century or so prior? It is what it is. Millennials are worthless. No great works, just endless reboots of classic franchises Gen-X and boomers created and produced. No great novels - shit, even on /lit/ most shit made here is just a poor man's Infinite Jest at best.