/lit/ - Literature

>>20536420
Correction: Previous Thread

>>20546255
As well as >>20536335.
Ugh...I guess this post is less damaged than your usual attempts...

Disgusting faggot

>>20546368
dont give this guy an INCH, fuck that other guy trying to ruin /wg/

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HsLfrpEAfB8

Nice a new thread. Did you guys see this? I saw it in the last thread. F. Gardner sounds like a real character.

where can I actually read Call of the crocodile?

>>20546391
Buy it

Got a problem. I write experimental literary fiction to very middling success (few publications, always a difficult sell), but for my next big project I'd really like to tackle a character-based sci-fi story I've been mulling over in my head for years - something light and fun and basically the opposite of what I'm writing now.

My prose and general approach to writing would likely be considered too literary for a genre work, while the tone and subject matter would no doubt be considered too genre for a literary one.

Basically, I'd be writing in a sort of deadzone that no one seems willing to take a chance on. The niche it's in seems unpublishable.

Does anyone have any advice?

>>20546251
>make narration use gender neutral pronouns when speaking of MC to dehumanise them
is this a thing?

>>20546251
I will not bump your general because you're gay.

>>20546419
Write what you feel like.
Create your own genre by your example if necessary.

>>20546391
I bought that and Call of the Arcade off Amazon a year ago. So, there. I don’t know where else. I’ve seen people post audiobooks before.

>>20546251
why did you have to make the general this faggy image? I keep ski[[ing over it when looking for it because my brain auto filters threads with images like this as "bad"

>>20546419
sell it as a young adult book, that shit gets eaten up any old day

>>20546251
based image, based homo op
if it would have been a girl none of thee incels would have complained

>>20546591
I chose this image for good reason. No one engages in the question I ask whenever I pose a question. If this thread has merit to exist then it will be filled, despite the homoerotic image.

>>20546609
alright then, ask a question you want answered and i'll answer it for you

>>20546614
What do you think makes a scene filled with tension? What separates a good a action scene from a boring one?

>>20546609
maybe no one answers your questions because they're boring
>>20546629
oh look

>>20546629
caring about a character, a fast prose (not a rushed one, but a prose that gets to the point and doesn't over-do it with details), believable stakes, actual chance that the character isn't gonna win.

like in the begining/middle of the story, characters should genuinely struggle or even fail at times to keep the idea that they wont be able to succeed in the end, so when a big action scene happens, readers actually get worried over character's they are emotionally invested in. Minor amounts of brutality can also add, like if they are being chased, maybe they get scratched by trees and bushes, or they just watched something maim an enjoyable side character.

there is definitely more i can add, but i can't think atm, so ill just tag you when i post about it

>>20546637
Then accept the homoerotic images.

>>20546591
Focus on this one instead.

Why do I continue to bother write? Nobody will read it.

>>20546755
Write something people want to read. If you're posting it somewhere where people read, ask yourself why people are picking it up and not continuing.

>>20546755
If you don't have a reason to write bereft of readership, then it's best you quit now.

>>20546755
Not with that attitude.

>>20546755
I got my first rejection today. It bummed me out more than I thought it would. But I'm still going to try and get readers.

>>20546755
checked. Write because it's enjoyable and good for the mind. And don't have the attitude of "no one will read it" that mindset held a lot of great writers back. Its very much possible to be a published writer nowadays, you just need to keep at it.

writing for my exam in india soon. my friend say this a good place to learn english. someone talk with me?

>>20546848
sure, what do you want to talk about?

>>20546854
can i post my homework and you tell me the answers? or help me with the ones that i've done to get the correct answer?

>>20546848
No this is a fucking writing general, to discuss the art of writing novels, not fucking /ESL/. Go read a fucking book in english and teach yourself.

>writing an intro
>having fun
>Realize once it's done that I basically remade the intro to a story I wrote a long time ago that I have bad memories of
How can I change it up? At least enough to differentiate it from the previous outing, I'm not looking to be totally original.

>>20546848
>>>/Int/
Do the needful sir

hello guys, so i have found this website through a mate who has reccomended this website for learning english. i'm tremendously studious and hope one day to speak great english. one of these days i will move to the USA and blend in as an american lol. you just wait.

How do I become this dedicated?

>>20546869
Sure, lets see it. Its english homework, right?

>>20546960
ultimate fag

>>20546251
>>20546251
I see a lot of people shit on the elements of style, but as I am a no nothing retard, I'm sure itll help me out. Am i right in thinking this?

Wrote 2000 words today, started scene outline to organize second draft, read half a novel, a short story, three poems and an essay.

>>20546984
>shit on the elements of style
What do you mean by this? Like criticising prose?

>>20546979
Fuck off.

>>20547004
Sorry, forgot pic related.

>>20546960
MADWOMAN

Is it lame to write an anime story with Japanese character names?

>>20547144
It doesn't matter whether it is or not.

>>20547201
It's not about whether I care personally but whether it'd turn off literally any potential readers

>>20547144
>Is it lame to write an anime story
Yes.

serious question: would you write fiction that is set in a specific country/culture even though you have never had any significant experience with either of these? like someone writing a piece set in modern china even though they don't know chinese or have never been there. i couldn't care less about the politics involving it, i just want to know you guys thoughts

>>20547144
what does that matter? do whatever you want, there are no rules

Here's a shitty poem that started as a limerick. I fucked with it too much, though, so I don't think it counts as one anymore. Being that it's the first poem I've been able to write in a while, I'm posting it anyways. It's titled:

A Program Consisting of Four Sets

A billowing circle of corsets
Have lace 'round their waists and some forceps
Are needed to pry them
Apart from once shy men
Distending their hymens in quartet.

>>20547260
Just realized "Away" works better than "Apart"

>>20547144
Just cool it with the cringe honorifics along the forced stuttering in dialogues and you’re set to go.

hello who here can teach english well for exam period? you are all speaking such aweomse english.

>>20546848
sir you do the kindly and talk on the bloody board anywhere you want my dear

>>20547257
Anon...you answered your own question...
Still I would add, write what you know.

learning english lets gooooooooooooooo

>>20547292
this is writing thread

>>20547495
Just keep reporting the posts as "spamming/flooding" (or something else appropriate) and maybe the idiot LARPer will go away.

Has anyone here self published on Amazon? I finished and self-published early this year but don't know how to advertise properly. Amazon have their own promotions tools, but they've just figured out how to game the system so you spend more than you earn on bidding for spots in an advertising spot.

>day 7 editing
>fuck i hope my previous writings improve
>basically rewriting whole paragraphs due to my shit post-prose.
if this keeps up i might have to up my masturbation time.

>>20547516
That's what these threads are though

>>20546755
Same faggot post every thread, except now with broken grammar. What's worse, people actually trying to give advice to the attention fishing faggot. kek

>>20546251
bump

Good morning fellow writers. Are you reading today? Reading Brave New World and was wondering if pneumatic sofas exist yet.

>>20547748
I think KK /wg/anon and Kit Williams both published on Amazon. I will warn you though, book sales don't make it by ads, it's by word of mouth. There are plenty of tactics to get the word out, that is what publicists do. Basically you need to find a way to have your target audience stumble upon your work, get them talking about it and have the most curious ones review and let friends know it's worth reading. Amazon's ads don't really get you far.

>>20546251
I wanted to see the beautiful picture right in the morning, but jannies are as always. Also, I doubt any poetical sense and writing talent in anyone who posted a negative reply because of the image. You will never be writers.

>>20546960
ultimate example of a woman writer whose primary motivation is to attain the identity of an author instead of the literature itself. "confession." stfu ashley

Okay after I get this first draft done I'm gonna nail it shut until I share my first story with beta readers. It was fun taking a break in setting and tone, I feel refreshed now. Knowing that I have the creativity to start something else made me far more confident but I need to get more editing done.

>>20548845
Much of my problem is that I'm not even familiar with who my target audience is. For every novel I can think of whose audience might potentially cross over into my audience, I can think of just as many reasons why they'd dislike the book. Perhaps that's a confidence and self-belief issue, though. Much of my drive and belief has been evaporated by the heat of the struggle to create and publish.

Another problem I don't know how to bridge is that I don't have a community of readers. That leaves self-promotion on social media, which looks like users coming across a post written by an anonymous nobody who wants them to read a book. Sometimes I wonder if giving a free copy of the book to a random stranger on the internet, then asking them to read and leave a review based on assumed good faith is the only option.

I was close to trad publishing. On my first round of submissions, I was advised to clean up some things, and told "It's not what we're looking for, right now." Upon the second round, a few years and cycles of editing later, I was simply told "It's not what we're looking for, right now." I don't know anymore. Maybe I should try a third time.

>>20548962
Maybe just start with the audience you want most. Social media is good but use it right: 10% of your posts are about your own work, 90% is promoting someone else or interacting with what other people care about. That is an important way you become part of your audience. When people see what you promote and what you care about, eventually those authors may recommend you to others and readers that have seen you around might check you out. That's one of many things you can do, I'd also recommend getting a really good cover (I think getting good quality image on Amazon can be tough) and also hiring some people on Fiverr to place ads and such around bookstores or libraries. Review copies work but be deliberate on who you give them too, someone that a community will listen to.
You can try submitting to more publishers, and maybe try getting an agent to make it serious. You can look up agents who will list the types of genres they are looking for and they will know exactly who to take you to.

>>20548997
Or you could just fucking write instead.

>>20549030
Someone's got to read it, anon.

>>20549034
The only reason why someone would HAVE to read anything I've written is if it's one of the great works of contemporary fiction. If it's not that good, it really doesn't matter if anyone reads it because it's not that good. If it is that good and nobody reads it, that's not my fuckin problem now, is it? I read it myself, after all. If it is that good and nobody reads it, the only people who've lost anything are the people who never read it.

>>20547748
I've had three self published on Amazon. The sales trickle in very slowly. I think the key is to keep the word out that you have a book and to do discount runs, pre-sales, advance review copies, etc. I think ads COULD work, but you have to be smart about them. See what sells best in your contemporary genre, then use Amazon's ad tool to put ads on those pages instead of spamming haphazardly. At that point, it's a waste of money.
Getting connected with other people is the best way. You create a network of guaranteed readers. Then it's not like you're trying to sell a book to people who don't read books. That's nonsensical advertising. You ought to sell to people who are most likely to read your book. I joined a small indie press's Facebook page, for example, and when I ask for ARCs I'll go there and ask too. They're all writers so I won't get many hits, but it's better than asking my own friends list and seeing one pity like. Goodreads is where I plan to search as well. It has a dedicated community of people who actively look for books to read.
Already I'm feeling a little undertooled and overwhelmed. But I told myself I'd try very hard to self publish this book and if it flopped, I'd try traditional publishing for my next book. There's nothing to do but do it.
>>20548858
>You will never be writers.
Not with that attitude, Buster. We are all going to make it, including you.

>>20549071
Why sell at all?

>g-guys is it cringe if i write about ...
>g-guys idk if anyone will read about ...
>g-guys is it a real book if i write about ...

Listen, you cockhead. There are nearly 8 billion people on the planet. We have an 85% literacy rate. If you find what you are writing interesting, the likelihood that you are the only one who does so is statistically impossible. If 0.1% of the Earth's population finds the topic interesting, and with the 85% literacy rate in mind, that's still about 500.000 people who would agree with you that the topic is interesting.

There may come a point where you have become so proficient that you can essentially write whatever you want, for commission or just for your own challenge. Yet that is a veteran's privilege. It doesn't concern you. For now, write for yourself. Write what you find interesting. If what you find interesting are psionic mecha battles, then write a cool ass story about mecha battles. If you try to force some other topic that you're not all that interested in for the sake of approval, your story will always be half-assed at best, because you're not passionately interested in the first place, and the chance that you'll even finish it will dramatically drop.

Write something that keeps you coming back to write it, and give not a single shit about what others may think.

>b-but i still don't know what to write about

Have you ever lay in bed without distraction and just thought? And have there been times where your mind begins concocting something, a story, a scenario, a character, seemingly by its own volition? And by the time the story has become rich in your head, you realize you've been laying there enjoying it entranced for 20 minutes? Most people just go " man, that would be crazy," yet that's your ambrosia. Daydreams reveal to you what you ultimately find most compelling, even if those daydreams may seem stupid or absurd.

Write for yourself, and like no one will ever read it. Then when you hit a natural break, go back and read it, and if the story holds your own attention you know you've done it right.

>b-but what if people-

At that point, you may want to consider if you're in it for the wrong reasons. You want to impress people, assume the identity of an author, disseminate a veiled manifesto, or some other motivation not pertaining to the indulgence and joy of just writing for the sake of itself.

>i-i tried and it was fun but it sucks

Every draft sucks. You will suck in the beginning. Yet so long as you had genuine fun with it, that's motivation to go again. And again, and again. Eventually, as you hone your speculation, imagination, and prose, something will stick, and by virtue of the fun of the story you'll end up with a completed work

>b-but a-anon it's about sentient cowboy rodents who go to mars ...

Better to have written a book about spacefaring rodents than to never have written at all.

>>20549080
O-Okay...Thanks...

>>20549080
>And have there been times where your mind begins concocting something, a story, a scenario, a character, seemingly by its own volition? And by the time the story has become rich in your head, you realize you've been laying there enjoying it entranced for 20 minutes? Most people just go " man, that would be crazy," yet that's your ambrosia. Daydreams reveal to you what you ultimately find most compelling, even if those daydreams may seem stupid or absurd.
This is how I started writing in the first place. Restless and wakeful thoughts becoming an obsession.

>>20546419
Unless you post an excerpt, my assumption is you write schlock.

>>20549039
Weird nihilistic take that sails just past the orbit of this conversation and ultimately misses it, but okay, your logic does makes sense on its own chess board, I guess. The point in publishing is never to obligate anyone to read a given work. No one HAS to read it. The reasonable point in publishing is to push the work into a space in which it can be given some sort of decent visibility and exposure to readers in order for them to encounter it and engage with it if they want. At least that's the ideal. Unfortunately, market forces drive insufficiently advertised works down into the swampy under-world of a million other books nobody will ever encounter, pressured by the weight of the top strata of works which do get read, and thus talked about.

My struggle is in finding out how to push my work upwards so that it gets at least some visibility, without resorting to spamming and samefagging social media platforms with my shit so that someone reads the first 20 pages merely out of hateful curiosity.

>>20549071
Did you have to write and publish more than one title before anyone took your catalogue seriously enough to make any purchases? That's something I'm beginning to think I have to wait for. from the POV of a random customer, I can't see any compelling reason to take a potshot on a new author with 1 title and no reviews.

Goodreads might actually be a good idea. How would you go about building a network? Do you create an accouhnt as a reader and "author", review titles prolifically, and hope people feel curious enough about your display picture to click their way into your profile, encountering your own titles?

>>20549080
Very based post.

>>20549162
Anon just read posts or watch videos from authors explaining their own marketing but be critical of what they say and keep in mind your budget and what you're willing to do.
Making a website as a kind of landing page for publications is nearly free and is nice to have a little base where people can go to see what you're working on. If you have a Goodreads or Amazon link it in your description. Have a blog on it and even posting once a month is good enough. Talk about things you are interested in, maybe share insights to your writing or host a giveaway or contest.

>>20549162
>nihilistic
It's anything but. It's funny, because from my perspective, all this talk about advertising and dancing around the idea that you want recognition and fame is the heart of nihilism. My proposal is that you say fuck you to the advertising. If I care about my work, it becomes immaterial to me whether or not it is liked by another. What's "weird" to me is how hyperfocused everyone is on "success." What's the point of advertising a work that's unworthy of entry into the canon purely on its own merit? I just don't see it unless I want to play gay little games of social engineering. Joyce could wrote another Ulysses, buy a couple ads on 4chan, and nothing else would change. It seems to me like such a fucking sniveling conceit to engage in advertising instead of just letting happen what happens. It makes me feel dirty and nasty and disgusted to imagine myself in Twitter engaging in mutual masturbation with a bunch of careerists. I don't know how anyone does it.

I provide editing work for very cheap if you have a manuscript at which you want a professional to look. Reply to this post, or your mother will die in her sleep tonight.

>>20546755
I write because I feel compelled to. If people read it, that’s a bonus. I've been writing my whole life but querying for almost a year with no bites. It is kind of a bummer, but at the same time it's kind of freeing, as I work on a different project I let my prose get weird because "no one will read it anyway" and it'll either work and get published eventually, or it won’t, but I'm writing what I want either way.

>>20546419
everyone appreciates good prose
just avoid making it flowery. leave the poetry out
patrick rothfuss is famous for his good prose and he writes fantasies

>>20548962
if the agents are writing you rejections and not just using a form letter, that's good
but yeah, you can have a good book with great characters and a solid plot and it's still not marketable
i heard that they buy science fiction like every three years. for some reason the market opens up.

>>20547144
No but if it doesn't have to play in Japan, give them non japanese names

>>20549077
To get a readerbase. I want my books to be read and talked about. I want people to be moved and interested and be in love with my work.
>>20549162
>Did you have to write and publish more than one title before anyone took your catalogue seriously enough to make any purchases?
No, I windmilled the first three books over about 4 years. I didn't care at the time about getting my name out there. I just wanted the books to be available, and I had hopes it would be a miracle and I'd get all these thousands of sales and everyone would wonder at how this young kid was so talented and good. Reality hadn't uppercutted me yet, then.
>How would you go about building a network? Do you create an accouhnt as a reader and "author", review titles prolifically, and hope people feel curious enough about your display picture to click their way into your profile, encountering your own titles?
I have a Goodreads author account. They have an active forum where you can go and talk to people in different groups of topics, like indie or sci fi or whatever. But primarily, they have a group for authors actively seeking reviews and that place is populated with readers. It's easy for me to forget that there are just as many readers as there are writers in this world, as in, people who read because that's what they are in love with doing.
I think maintaining an active presence on the forum is a long game move, as GR has been up for a long time and wedging yourself in as a staple of the forum is kind of like forcing a meme here. You have to stay dedicated for a while for it to catch on.

Finished up chapter 2 and going over it. tell me what you guys think. chapter 3 is gonna start the major conflict

>>20549443
forgot link
https://docs.google.com/document/d/17lyhWQgkKEI5SO9g4D6gtJSXAxjpsyHsZTdB9VZQkrQ/edit?usp=sharing

>>20546431
There's no such thing as a "gender neutral pronoun" in English, you fucking idiot tranny

>>20549218
From my pount of view with a background in production and research I tend to look at commercial side as integral to a project. It's not even about fame as much as a desire for people to hear and understand my stories. I'd like to be a "voice crying in the wilderness" too, and certainly that has worked for prophets but I am just doing what I know to do.
Also who do you think is going to make it into the canon this century and why? There was a bit of discussion in the general about next-steps intellectually.

>>20546431
"It" can dehumanize, but it's very strong, not always appropriate.
"They" mostly feels vague and unspecified I think. It sounds like you're talking about a distant or hypothetical person.
Instead or in addition to this you can use a noun in place of their name. Consistently call them a "creature" or something.

Thinking about writing about my experiences in Ukraine. Not sure if that would be lame.

>>20546431
I think it's more interesting when you talk about things we know well in an abstract way. Faulkner did this by describing crying as "making a sound" and crying as just water. He does this both in "the Sound and the Fury" and "the Evening Star" and it gave me the impression both despairing and dehumanizing. Especially when some characters are described as crying, but other characters are never described as crying so it makes something feel deeply wrong.

>>20549644
>Not sure if that would be lame.

please see >>20549080
stop writing for approval

>>20549644
Depends. Were there qts?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ewBw_5VcTiZ38i_sVr3v0V5Nnit76T1jqoK5vjU8nMI/edit?usp=sharing

I don't know why everyone says prologues are bad. Prologues are useful in sci fi and fantasy. They give a glimpse of the action so you can set the tone of action early on even if you're starting in a peaceful beginning.

I revised my prologue, I'd like to know if it has more tension now.

>>20549601
MEERKATERS OUT!
WORDCHADS IN!
>>20549704
Would it be morally incorrect to acquire a Ukrainian sex slave and also train them to be your beta-reader?

Lol, people that simultaneously believe book ads don’t work but traditional publishers will get you sales are both retarded and brainwashed.
All the tools available to a nerd behind a computer throwing money at your book is available to you too idiot.

>>20550032
So abstract it's vague. "She donned the legendary armor" means she is putting it on, a cloud of nanobots consume her, she sat in a mecha? And the guy is flying with an exposed face at 450mph (and somehow getting oxygen from the suit) and only feeling is "the wind whipped my face" which isn't enough to ground me in such a wild experience. Gimme them tactile,/taste/smell experiences

Some repetition (e.g. "I activated the secondary thrusters. The thrusters under my feet and gauntlets ignited," and the time graceful is used twice)

Lastly the short sentences actually slow down the pacing. Each period is a pause. Use dependent clauses to organize ideas with better flow

>>20550178
Read between the lines anon. No one is saying that. A self-published author can do almost as much with 1000 as a multimillion dollar ad campaign from a traditional publisher. But neither of them can depend on book ads alone because it's just about the least effective way to market a book since it's not a commodity like toothpaste.

>>20550132
>you have to read all the books.

20550217
Here’s your (((you))) faggot.
People clearly believe that publishers have some psychic superpowers when it comes to advertising, and that advertising is some super secret hermetically sealed forbidden knowledge ungraspable by normal people.
Everything you write is trash and you can’t even remember what you typed a few hours ago.

Not really a writing question, but for learning English vocabulary(as a native english speaker) which dictionary website is the best? Cambridge seemed to be the only one I could find with a vocabulary list I could make myself, are there others? Merriam-webster seems popular but they seem like premade lists, not lists that you make yourself

>>20550216
>Use dependent clauses to organize ideas with better flow
can you elaborate on this?

>>20550226
This sounds very overcomplicated. Your best way of expanding vocabulary is to read and then Google words you don't know. Are there some words in particular you're after?

>>20550258
I meant lists, like a website with flashcards built in it so you can make your own list of flashcards. But perhaps I am just overthinking it.

>>20550223
>Thats the third time this week you've confused then with than.
>ASSUME SPANKING POSITION LUDMILA!

>>20550272
There are lots of flashcard websites. Too many almost. Quizlet is pretty well established, though of course it's not designed for vocabulary in particular. I just write down words I don't know as I come across them, then add a definition for myself. Helps a lot, plus it's fun to collect.
>picrel

>>20549445
Reread chapter 1 and half of 2, still like 1 overall and the descriptions/characterization but the dialogue tags/paragraph breaks get really wonky once bird girl shows up. I also gets really info dumpy with her and the elder in the next scene.

>>20550253
Tbt not sure why I said it that way, i should have just said "vary sentence structure". Get some commas in there to merge more ideas into longer sentences.

Faggot stops replying when you call him out for gargling the cock of publicists and agents.

>>20550216
I think it was too vague, because you mixed up who's doing what.

SHE donned the legendary armor and took off. So he dons his exoskeleton and takes off after her. But yeah, I agree, it needs more tactile feel. Thanks for reading though

Again, I can't focus on writing since everything is so expensive and increasing which means that society will collapse this year and /pol/ is right, oh god, I can't take this, billions will die and what if that includes me.
No.

>>20549080
dangerously based

What is good prose? How do you know it when you read it?

>>20550481
for me, it's prose that's easy to read
bonus points for the artsy stuff
patrick ruthuss is a good example of good prose

https://www.patrickrothfuss.com/content/book1ex.asp

>>20550481
by reading a lot of prose and developing a personal taste

>>20550394
I understood the the order of events completely. My point is that "she dons the legendary armor" is so abstract that in this context where people are flying hundreds of miles an hour through the sky in paragraph 1 (and another person is shrouded in nanobots right after) I have no way of knowing what "legendary armor" is - something science fictiony like the guy does is what I assumed since she can now fly 500mph per our but is it supposed to be a bronze hoplight breastplate or some golden elf helmet? It's an abstract vs concrete language issue.

>>20550501
tardo think prose gud when tardo read prose and tardo head not hurt. tardo head hurt big from words big. tardo head not hurt much reading Fantasy Saga Volume One: At The Beginning There Were Origins. tardo think that best prose of all book tardo read, which are one

>>20550224
Banner ads are more or less just burning money. You'd do better to spend the cost on paying someone to shill it on socmed.

>>20549704
No idea, constantly getting shot at and shooting back. Think all the Ukrainian women went to Poland and Italy to get railed. Saw a lot of Babushkas though

>>20550547
You could post higher quality replies and contribute to the thread instead of aiming to get le ebin upvotes, you know.
>>20550501
>>20550481
As for good prose, I disagree. I think Rothfuss has easy to read prose that flows nicely, but I wouldn't consider it "good" in a literary sense. It does its job and communicates clearly. If that's what you want out of prose, and I think in general that is what is popular today, then his prose is good. But I think really good prose stirs you up inside and makes you feel like your breath got taken away completely. You laugh at the book and say, "Alright, author. You got me that time" because you were so impressed by it. That to me is good prose. Prose that simply conveys and communicates is serviceable prose. It's not good and it's not bad. It's just invisible, which is fine IF the prose is secondary to the plot or the book's world.

>>20550563
What do you think trad publicists do with the other 85-90% of the book sales money they don’t give you retard?
I’ll give you a hint, it rhymes with tanner nads.

>>20550576
Executive bonuses.

>>20550576
I speak from experience
I've spent a third as much on paying a dude on fiverr to shill my book as I have on banner ads, and the guy got me way more views than the ads

>>20550575
post an example

>>20550605
Oh yeah because you definitely tracked the purchases made from a guy on fiverr didn’t you?
Oh what’s that? You literally can’t? How curious that is. It’s almost as if you’re speaking straight out of your own ass in a desperate attempt to save face.
Don’t speak where you don’t know dumbass.

>>20550575
brando sando communicates in a clear way
rothfuss leans towards the arty side
i'm not the only one who feels this way
sure, i remember some of faulkner's writing, even though i read it years ago. "the train ran screaming through town."
i don't think rothfuss is as good as faulkner, but he is better than most fantasy authors

>>20550575
On an almost completely tangential note, I'm on the first few pages of The Name of the Wind (Rothfoss). I'm immediately struck by the quality of his prose. It's exceptionally efficient, economical and evocative, particularly for fantasy.

Do you think Rothfuss or GRRM has better prose, and why?

>>20550648
I can certainly track the uptick in sales and views as well as where the views come from, brain champion. Why don't you pull that wire coat hanger out of your skull?

>>20550687
Yeah, no you can’t faggot. You can only track total sales, which means you’re unable to track who comes from where, and if that fiverr bitch boy is doing anything at all.
That which can’t be measured can’t be managed.
Go back to lying to anons who know less boy.

>>20550679
rothfuss goes for the artsy prose.
i don't remember martin doing that.
i do remember that scene with jaime and brianne where they are fighting and surprised by bandits and jaime says "i'm just chastising my good wife."
that made me laugh

>>20550723
>he doesn't even know how to track sales in the last X days/months
Holy fuck you really are a room-temperature IQ abortion survivalist aren't you

>>20550745
>he can’t track the source the total sales are attributed to
>he can’t read
I see why you’re in this thread.
This may help you.

>>20550533
a little further down, I wrote

>She was going to reach the upper stratosphere and absorb the sun, throwing the world into endless darkness. I must kill Nyra.

It's legendary because it can literally absorb the sun itself. It's a suit that can bend light and the sun itself to its will

>>20550224
Check your reading comprehension. I had this very post in mind replying to you. I don't see how this came off as conceited, I literally explained how it is done and who to go to, primarily by publicity and advertisement is secondary. There's nothing arcane about it. If you want to do it yourself then learn the techniques of publicists, you don't even need a degree to do that.

>>20550440
You had years of time to stock up anon. I thought I was late two years ago but now I haven't even gone to the grocery store in months. Also you should be writing, you can still make it.

20550784
> how it is done and who to go to
You don’t “go to” anyone faggot, you create your own hype. By pushing the responsibility of success or failure onto another person you’re becoming a failure already.

>>20550833
That's fine bro if you want to do it yourself, it will save you money. I was just trying to clarify that I didn't think it was beyond the scope of a writer to do it himself.

>>20550224
>>20550833

You sound intolerable.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/54100/wish-mountain-adventure-drama-fantasy

Give me reads.
Read me.
Read now.
Me a reading needing a lot now.

>>20550813
Be honest, what's going to happen? I'm afraid of death like you have no idea, trust me, but I'm considering suicide

>>20550854
The review swap offer is still open, chief.

I've decided to give Friedman's Business of Being a Writer a fair shake. I'll let you fellas know how it is after I'm done.

>write
>don't browse this general
>have fun with it
>go to this general
>the fun of writing stops immediately for a while
I think I'm starting to recognize my problem...

>>20550849
I’m intolerant of faggotry and lies.
Marketing is just a part of any other profession. If I was an electrician I’d advertise my business. If I’m a writer I advertise my books.
No, publicists don’t have magic fucking fairy dust, they have advertising campaigns which amount mostly to online ads and a few in person events.

>>20550920
>If I’m a writer

Big if.

>>20550923
1 in 20 people who attempt to become professional writers succeed in doing so according to Brandon Sanderson and those who attended the same college for the same degree he did.
Approximately 1/3 of those who got the same degree achieved at least being published, though it was only part of their income.
Those are great odds.

>>20550957
You forgot to add the "arbitrarily insulting, perpetually bitter and generally unlikable" to the probability equation. I think "gets into pointless, timewasting feuds with random people on 4chan" should be a consideration in the calculation as well. Do that, reconsider the odds, and you'll see that the "if" of your statement is considerably loadbearing.

>>20551028
My rants on random anons does not downgrade my writing. It’s a warm up for it if anything. Thank you for letting me use your retardation as a punching bag for my document.

>>20550957
That was 1 in 20 for people who took the writing class he did. For would-be writers in general it was something like 1 in 10000.

>>20551039
>My rants on random anons does not downgrade my writing
No, but with such poor judgement, it does lower the odds quite considerably that you have anything at all worth listening to.

>>20551047
>source
>asshole, deep in the cavity of my faggotry
As always I don’t care.
The truth is anyone who has a spine has a 1 in 1 chance of being published, because the only true barrier to self publishing is hitting a button.

>>20551047
Honestly I'd sooner bet on a random internet retard who writes for fun than some bougie dipshit that decided to go to writing school as a vain attempt at becoming "be ebin artist" without having to get good at visual art

>>20551061
He said that at the beginning of his seminars which are all available for free on youtube. The point of it was anyone who wants to put in the effort has access to the resources they need to improve their chances of making it as a writer.

>>20551081
I've watched several of his seminars and everything they contained just felt like "yeah no shit retard" tier super obvious stuff

>>20551086
And yet you’re still unpublished, which means you’re not putting in the obvious effort required.
Stop bitching.

>>20550765
You are not understanding me at all. Just read up on concrete vs abstract descriptions in fiction.

>>20550912
And that's on https://z-lib.org/ ! Handy!

>>20550856
There might be civil unrest and poverty but I expect a shift to more local or provincial governments as people by necessity ignore higher yet unenforceable laws. Some things get worse some better. Technology in 40 or 50 years is really whats scary.

>>20550440
are you going to post this shit in every single /wg/ thread? what are you getting out of this, just (You)'s? it has nothing to do with writing. you're an annoying fucking idiot. you didn't even post a writing sample in the last thread when i replied to you. fucking dunce.

>>20550856
nothing is going to happen
the civil war was fought over slavery, literally people's livelihood depended on slavery. it was their culture and their economy
there's nothing today that's equivalent to slavery

>>20550343
i want as little dialogue as possible. In fact so far to plan these are the only ones with heavy dialogue outside a couple later on

>>20551182
>over half my 1st draft is dialogue
Editing gonna be fun, I think I will go with the "in late out early" technique because my drafts usually include every thing I can imagine a lot of which wont matter.

>>20551111
So far it's a good read. She hits on a lot of topics that we discuss here every day and that I myself have thought about, like being a reclusive writer or having a short bio to convey mysteriousness, etc. It will take me some time to read through since I'm taking detailed notes, but I like it and am glad I'm reading it.

>>20551213
I don't understand the point of author bios. They seem so self-indulgent. When I'm published my bio will be a single line, "I wrote this book." Let the work speak for itself.

>>20550440
Get this off /wg/
>>>/lit/wwoym/ was literally created for this

>>20551233
Same. Something like:
>I started writing because there was no fiction specificaly tailored to my tastes, so here I am.

>>20551233
>>20551285
I'll just post word-for-word what she says in the book.
>It’s such a small thing, an innocuous bit of copy that can be passed over quickly, even ignored. But when your writing makes an impression, one of the first things a reader will ask is “Who wrote this?” Your biographical note thus represents an opportunity to establish a meaningful connection and potentially draw opportunities to you— and this is just scratching the surface of your bio’s importance. A brief bio accompanies nearly everything you do: the publication of your work, your appearances, your social media profiles, your website, and so on. Whenever you’re in a position to be noticed, people will see your bio. What story do you want to tell?
>Some writers don’t say anything substantive— and this is true of both emerging and established writers. So be careful. You won’t necessarily learn how to write a better bio by modeling yours on those of successful writers. As I write this, one of the most popular and recognized literary writers uses a bio note that says, “X is a writer.” Tendencies toward brevity and understatement can often be chalked up shyness or modesty. (Women especially need to rethink this approach, but I’ve found men using the modest bio as well.) But for some writers with short bios, it’s an attempt to convey status. Famous authors are known for the one- liner— and, of course, when you’re Toni Morrison, what’s needed except your name? Other writers may be buying into the romance of the introverted author whom one should never know too well.
>While there may be good reason to appear mysterious, it’s still possible to say something meaningful and helpful for your career. Especially if you’re emerging, getting noticed is part of the game, and unless more amazing opportunities are landing in your lap than you can possibly accept, it’s not to your advantage to be overly coy. That’s not to say it’s easy to write about yourself. Most writers find it painful to write even fifty words without sounding overly earnest or terribly self- important. But the challenge is worth your attention.

And in general I agree, just by thinking myself about trying to pursue other content creators. I find a piece of music I like, for example, so I go to find out more about the artist. Except their website is defunct, they're only using Soundcloud to post music, and I can't find anything about them anywhere. So I stop looking for them.
I can understand the knee-jerk "Well that's the way I want it! Stop looking for me!" reaction I myself had, but the more I read, the more I'm convinced that my mindset needs to change about certain stubborn beliefs I have. Moreover, I know I have these beliefs in part because of my longtime association with 4chan board culture, but I'm willing to change even if it's painful and a drag.

>>20551093
Okay, I looked up concrete vs abstract descriptions. I rewrote the whole thing, adding more specific, tactile, and grounded details. Tell me if you feel this is a tense scene.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ewBw_5VcTiZ38i_sVr3v0V5Nnit76T1jqoK5vjU8nMI/edit?usp=sharing

>>20551368
What if you actually ARE an introverted writer, though?

>>20546984
People that shit on elements of style are as retarded as those that follow it as gospel. It is foundational but not meant to govern all prose

>>20551432
This is a staggeringly large improvement, very nice work. Keep studying craft and you can really get far - I always recommend this but another concept that helps me is "specificity" which Shaelinwrites on YouTube has a good video on.

I still have a few nitpicks around word economy and pushing the concreteness a little further in a few places (early on what she looks like/takeoff looks like and how close she was later in the peice), also you slip into present tense at "I must catch her". But overall just a huge improvement so give yourself a cookie or something, warms my heart to see someone actually take feedback onboard and improve.

>>20551432
This was a fun read, pretty fast paced too. I especially like that last paragraph where the pov character acknowledges the irony of the situation.
>mayham

>>20546629
Tension is generated through suspense. A good action scene is made before the action actually happens by carefully revealing to the reader in earlier parts what is at stake for the characters and how much that stake matters to them. The key is to expose this in such a way as to make the reader feel what the characters feel.

You can't just say that a character loves his dog, for example. You have to make the reader love the dog (or least empathize with the character). Then when the dog is at stake (say from getting kidnapped by a dog-fighting ring) the reader feels the tension that the character feels as he tries to win the stake.

>>20551432
The next step for you is to read up on POV and tenses. I think you actually want close 3rd person here and not 1st person.

do you have any good methods for quickly fleshing out or getting ideas for characters other than need/want, wounds, how they're coping with said wounds etc?

I don't think I've experienced a meaningful kind of Flow State in over 2 years.....

>>20550915
Honestly fuck off then it's your problem mate. This is a fine general. Faggots have been blaming 4chan for their problems since forever. Stop taking it so seriously or go to Reddit where they will praise your gay story about Lazarazorsword and the dark fantasy world you half shat out before looking for validation (You)s.

>>20552065
Try to think in terms of opposites and extremes, asking "what's the opposite of X" and "what's the extreme of X", where X is any element of the story--plot, character, setting etc. All stories are about change and you can't have change without contrast. Another tip is to think in terms of unique relationships rather than unique abstractions. A story which features a jaded cop, a beautiful girl and a serial killer sounds cliche at first, but what if the jaded cop is the mentor of the beautiful girl? And the serial killer, his son?

This is what stories like Girl With The Dragon Tattoo did. They took stock characters common to the serial-killer thriller genre and played around with their relationships. The serial killer(s) are the brother and father of the missing victim. Another story in the same vein is The Silence of the Lambs. There one of the serial killers (Lector) is a mentor to the hero cop (who, using opposites, is a fresh recruit rather than the jaded veteran).

>>20552080
How's your quality of sleep?

>>20552065
Think of your own daily life and what makes you fleshed out. You have a routine. There are people you run into. You are associated with many places, beliefs, getups, food. Place is especially important and powerful if it's a real place because it can evoke so much of the past if you just scratch the surface. Think about all the past motivations, the twists and turns, the new groups of friends, the different haircut, there's so many things that change in your life and reasons why you do things the way you do. So if you want to flesh out a character just walk through their life and try to understand why they became the way they did. Not everyone has a tragic backstory, but most people have seen some kind of suffering before and it usually influences people but might not be what made them.

>>20552065
I've found it useful to organize character qualities in a hierarchy.
At their core, a character possesses a set of values.
Those values lead to several priorities.
Those priorities lead to several actions when presented with situations.
Differences in priorities and values lead to camaraderie conflict among characters.
A character arc is when a priority, or a value, shifts over time and experience.
This, of course, can be expanded upon, but I've found it to be a functional way to construct characters.

>>20552080
I don't think I ever have.

>>20551971
Yup, I think you're right, I'm rewriting the prologue from Third Person Limited perspective.
The link should be the same

I'm writing in first person witness. Any advice for making sure readers don't start to see the narrator as the protagonist? I'm planning to kill him off just before the climax and having the protagonist take over as narrator, and I'd like to avoid the transition feeling too disruptive.

>>20552233
there needs to be some protagonist to replace the narrator's role, so just make it so that we empathize with the true protagonist better. maybe make the narrator display a clear misunderstanding that contrasts with the true protagonist, disconnecting us from the narrator and feeling more in touch with the protagonist as we share common ground in how we are conceiving the story.

>>20552129
Getting better.... But I don't think that's ever mattered before

>>20552374
Actually, it might be key to your missing flow state.
See https://www.nbcnews.com/health/body-odd/bad-smells-can-give-you-nightmares-flna1C9926317 .
In short, good smells can prevent nightmares.
I started simple; I put incense cones on my headboard, and when one lost its smell, I'd burn it, and replace it with a fresh one.
I also got more conscientious about washing my sheets regularly.
Slowly, over the next week, I noticed I was having less nightmares, sleeping much better, and feeling more rested.
A week later, my muse made its first appearance in years.
I'm not saying this will work for you, but it worked wonders for me.

>>20552403
icense cones smell shit and would probably make my nightmares worse

You guys are building an audience for this book of yours right?
The best book in the world can’t sell if no one knows it exists.

>>20552440
Then pick something else, something you think smells nice.
Also...do you buy *good* incense cones, or the cheap crap?

>>20552403
Speaking of muse, I had another good session today (referring to this >>20548880 )
and I'm shutting my next novel's first draft at 53k words so this week I should only be working on the other project. There's a lot of scenes I still want to add but maybe thousands of words I'd like to cut because some scene intros are just too similar I think it'd be better to go in late. Anyways I cannot wait to get back to it later this year because it's got a golfing, day trading cynic and his idiosyncratic friends, a desperate octoroon socialite, a traumatized sub nympho maid, a Croatian con-artist hooker. There's a gun, casual racial epithets, gambling, clown pussy and the demiurge gets a new pair clothes.

>>20552457
im too paranoid to shill my writing anywhere. its not that im afraid of criticism, in fact i want people to be brutal. but i feel i havent earned the right to even stick my foot in the door. maybe i should stop caring about everything

>>20552463
>good
ill just rub my nose with this shit

>>20552476
what sites do people post writing anyway... on lit??

>>20552521
mostly royalroad

>>20552476
You care too much. Trust me, you’re a nobody.

Can someone recommend some novels that are wholesome and uplifting? I'm trying to write something in the same vein and could use some reference. Specifically I'm looking for something like Dickens's A Christmas Carol or the films It's A Wonderful Life and Groundhog's Day.

>>20552619
One of the only authors on my shelf that has happy endings is Ray Bradbury, but every now and then his stories can be grim. Fahrenheit 451 is actually pretty uplifting and life-affirming and especially Dandelion Wine (the novel version)

>>20547778
>day 8 editing
>prose slightly easier to unfuck
Maybe i wont have to masturbate my days away.

Hey. If you could read this and tell me what you think, I'd appreciate it.
One of my biggest problems in writing is figuring out is "what should be happening/what should I be telling the reader about the plot at this point in time", so the hook is especially troublesome since I have to figure out where to start. Any feedback on anything like that would be appreciated.

>>20553298
>what should I be telling the reader about the plot at this point in time
Nothing. Maybe consider portraying the plot instead of telling about it. Nothing is more boring than a plot. It's the ways in which you dress it up that make something worth reading. A series of events recounted by narration, as if you were colloquially telling a friend a story, does not make for compelling literature.

>>20553309
Well, you know what I mean. It's troublesome trying to figure out what should be happening in any given paragraph.

>>20553309
>t. never read Cormac McCarthy
You're right for the most part, but you can entirely tell a series of events as if it were a story, you just need to write it in an interesting voice. Our friend here's issue being he wrote his in the blandest voice imaginable.

>>20546251

When I was younger, I thought that I knew
But then I became enlightened, and now I see through
All the bullshit and the lies
And I realize
That everything is one big "I".

>>20553314
Nothing "should" be happening at any point in any paragraph. Let loose a bit. Just write and see what comes out. Focus on the writing itself. And yes, I know exactly what you mean. The problem is not that I don't understand what you mean, but that you don't know what I mean.
>>20553396
Anything can work if written well. Nothing can work if written poorly.

>>20553402
5/10, middle of the road poetry, befitting it's midwitted subject matter.

>>20553423
I'll try that. I get told that a lot honestly. I'm a talented programmer, so I tend to try and view everything in that lens. I've taken classes that have emphasized how most great writers always just let their subconscious take over, but I find it so difficult.
Will try and post back with results in 1 hr if you care.

There are a couple lines here I'm still wrestling with (kudzu "ever/overhang'd," limbless in orchards, reconstituted), but I'm actually pretty happy with the core of this poem. Thoughts?

>>20547257
Sure. If you do a lot of research, you might actually end up having a better understanding of China than the chinks do, because the outsider always has the benefit of perspective. With enough insight into the nature of the human condition, you may even be able to empathize sufficiently. You probably don't, but it is possible.

>>20553533
Here's what I got. I feel like it's pretty bad. Directionless, boring. I don't think "Just writing no thinking" works for me, but "planning it out" is probably just as bad.
It always feels like I have these grand inspirations but they're so far and few between, and when I get them I can make something decent. I don't really know how to wire my brain to get into that creative mindset.

>>20552619

>>20553889
I do better in narrative usially with stream of consciousness when I get into a character or narrator voice and just have them speaking a lot. That's also how I edit dialogue (at least early drafts) because I basically am method acting, as if its a character answering all his problems in a single interview. If you let it flow you can surprise yourself with the things you say. That's what happens when you mull words over and over eventually something interesting will happen.

>>20546251
When is it acceptable to show your works to your closest friends and lovers and such? During the editing phase? When you're ready for beta readers? When you're in the middle of writing your first draft?

>>20546251
Today I, for some reason, willingly brought and gave my still unfinished first draft to my closest friend to read. But just now did I remember about that part where I went into great detail about "expanding your social influence by forming as many social bonds and making stakes in as many social groups/circles as possible"

AMA

>>20554033
I share pretty much everything I write with my girlfriend. All my drafts are living documents, to which she has access. She likes to read it intermittently and make notes, give feedback, etc. I find it really helpful.

The candle casted a dull orange light through the dark room.
or
The candle cast a dull orange light through the dark room.

>>20554281
>The candle cast a dull orange light through the dark room.

But you might want to point to the shadows that are being cast in the otherwise dull orange glow, if you're keen on keeping "to cast" as the main verb.

>>20554072
Why do you think your friend will be bothered by something he himself will strongly empathize with?

>>20554033
>When is it acceptable to show your works to your closest friends and lovers and such?
How many lovers we talking about here? Whenever, just don't ask for/expect much feedback. They'll probably feel uncomfortable and just read 500 words and tell you it's good. I don't bother sharing with anyone in my life anymore. I've started believing in the "veil of the author" meaning knowing the face/speaking voice of the person writing a story makes it a bit harder to enjoy the work as the reader sees it through the filter of "Jimmy wrote this in the eyes of his narrator/character" which drags down immersion. Being less aware of the Wizard of Oz makes the magic more real (even though you know he's out there)

>>20554281
>The candle cast dim orange light over the room.
Replaced "dull" with dim which seems to capture the intentions better as it then also makes "dark" duplicative.

>>20554293
>>20554335
thanks will adjust

This is you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gnezI2hOXA

>This is you

>>20554541
i wish i looked that confident

>>20554101
i bet she finds it hard to be unbiased

>>20554586
Same as anyone else, really. I'm personally biased against literally everything I read from the get-go. I am, of course, harshest on my own writing. So maybe a bit of positive bias is a good thing. I'm much more immunized against praise than I am criticism in general, so what's the harm? I do trust her taste and judgment, however, and just the support of someone who loves you is in and of itself an invigorating thing.

>>20554101
that sounds like a nightmare desu

>>20554811
Yea it's almost as demoralizing to hear as when China-man anon said he was giving up because the girl he has a crush on thought his writing was "problematic".

>>20546251
Diary entry: I'm really digging into my 2nd act of my novel (36k words) and overwhelmed by how many ideas I have of things to include/follow up on. It's my first time this far on a project this size and I can see from the writer's POV how books can balloon up to have sloggy middles. I'm going to have to control myself to keep this portion to ~30k words.

This is a 1st person fantasy, so I can't imagine the challenge of doing it with multiple POVs, really makes me respect those who can pull it off.

I just need to finish this chapter and my life will become better and my writing easier
right?

>>20555233
>30k
why keep it so short ?

A boy whose grandma is slowly dying of dementia befriends a man made out of compost. As his grandmother's illness progresses, the man begins to fall apart.

I've thought of an idea that I lack the caliber to write.

How did you guys get started with writing (and enjoying it)

>>20553889
Something's off about this writing style. I don't know what

>>20553889
the descriptors feel forced.
The way the character emotionally relates to their dead loved one whilst fixating on the stone is just weird, not in a broken way, more like in a clinically detached perspective.
And then there is the lazy exposition by way of the other character just info dumping on what the, presumably main character, is going to do/think/feel.

>>20546251
I just quit my well paying tech job to go spend a year abroad doing a creative writing job (full scholarship)

and now there's gonna be a recession so I'm very yikes about the timing of my decision

>>20555658
Fuuuuck that brings back memories. The first time I got into writing was near the end of middle school, right around the time Sword Art Online first debuted. Watched it, got obsessed with the notion of isekai shit and began writing my own thing. Had some pretty good ideas, instead of the typical boring way of getting portal fantasy'd my protags got eaten up by a random tentacle monster that just appeared out of nowhere one day and woke up in this frozen hellscape. I'll post it here if I ever find it, remember that I got pretty into it and ended up shitting out like 400 pages of the stuff over the course of a couple months.

But in more recent times, I just sort of went with what I had in my head. Overactive imagination be damned, I had some pretty overbearing fantasies floating around in there that begged to be let out, so I let'em out. The first iteration of the idea wasunsalvagable dogshit with every cliche in the book (everyman protag, starts by waking up and looking out a window, introduces normal every day life in the blandest way possible, goes to school yadda yadda), but it was a valuable learning experience. The hardest part was actually sitting down and doing it, but once you get a feel for it and get the ball rolling it gets better fast.

Oh, and also, read. Read, read, read. Over the course of 6 months, I've read all of LotR, I'm re-reading ASoiaF and I'm at A Feast for Crows atm, read a bunch of Abercrombie starting with A Little Hatred and a local author's book/catalog of slavic mythology. I cannot overstate how important it is to read, it sharpens your prose, enhances your vocabulary and gives you a better sense of pacing, rhythm and flow. Hope that helped! Anyway, thanks for coming to my ted talk.

>>20555834
>spend a year abroad doing a creative writing job (full scholarship)
How the fuck did you snag that?

>>20555853
*creative writing course
not.a job

I just found places in the UK that had full scholarships for creative writing and I applied
fortunately it worked out for me

Had to go back to waging. I really want to make it because I can't deal with this bullshit.

>>20555872
Congrats, anon. Good luck.

>>20555233
>Yea it's almost as demoralizing to hear as when China-man anon said he was giving up because the girl he has a crush on thought his writing was "problematic".
It was too racist. I need to write about how every minority defeats the evil white man.

reminder burning incense/candles are a great way to set moods

Someone please convince me not to abandon the novel I've been working on to start a litrpg I came up with while drunk last night.

>>20556222
litrpg? why not just make it a mlp fanfiction faggot?

I really like the film grain black and white look of a lot of older author photos but would it come off too weird if I edited my author photo to look like it was taken on an old film camera?

I have finished a novel that I wrote for practice, dont ever plan on trying to get it published. What should I do with it?

>>20555872
>UK
Will they accept a fellow Burgerbro? Can I meet Irish qts this way?

>>20556258
Publish it under a pen name / sockpuppet persona. What's the harm in that? Might end up better than you'd think. Otherwise, re read it from time to time, might help you gauge if and how far you've come since writing it.

>>20556232
I could say because I've never seen mlp, but that defense doesn't work since I've never read any litrpg either. The main draw is that I have just enough attachment to the core idea to want to write it, and by adding stats it becomes something I don't care enough about to agonize over getting it perfect. By relying on arbitrary number increases to signify progress instead of actual character development I can pound it out with significantly less effort than something that matters to me. It also has a built in audience, so I can consider it marketing for my later work and practice at the same time.

>>20556222
give a brief description of your novel and litrpg

>>20556326
Well you see there's a dude that suddenly wakes up in the demon lord's castle, and he's chosen as the new demon lord. The twist is he wants to be the hero to save the world not a demon lord. It's titled, I died and woke up to become the hero but ended up becoming the new demon lord!

>>20556258
submit it to a contest see how it does

>>20556238
are you famous?

>>20556347
i think i read something like that in a manga
you also realize that this will be more of a kingdom building than rpg right? because he is already the highest level of command

>>20556285
>>20556350
Nah i'm certain it's dogshit
Maybe ill upload it as a PDF here so people can laugh at it

>>20556326
>Novel
Follows a group of space pirates who were all former slaves of the reptilian empire. Over the course of the story the narrator, who just wants the freedom of being an outlaw, begins to realize that the captain is deeply obsessed with getting revenge on the empire. If I had to elevator pitch the style I'm going for I'd say Black Company by way of John Carter and Legend of the Galactic Heroes.
>litrpg
Weird Western in which monsters seem to spontaneously appear on the frontier. When killed the monsters dissolve into magical gold which people can use to gain unique abilities and later upgrade those powers. Structured as short vignettes about different monster hunters so I can play around with powers that seem fun to write until deciding what characters to focus on.

>>20556354
no, I just like the way the film grain looks

>>20556238
Buy an antique camera and use it to take your author photo.

Should I give Obsidian a try?
I'm afraid that I might be way too visual for Zim or Scrivener.

>>20556468
no. just download libreoffice for free and use that.

>>20556418
Finish your novel. There is value in finishing things and not just flitting from project to project like a hummingbird. Also your novel sounds far more interesting

>>20556347
Ok, real talk anon.
I like lit-rpg and isekai and even I don't want to read that shit.
>>20556418
>novel
Could be ok if you get the pirate banter/camaraderie right.
>liitrpg
so it's basically like a he who shites with monsters power system but set in a grim western world?

>>20556477
>libreoffice
What do I use to organize my lore and factions?

>>20556503
>so it's basically like a he who shites with monsters power system but set in a grim western world?
No clue. Like I said, I've never read any litrpg. The powers are meant to be similar to Jojo's Stands or Battle Game in 5 Seconds, but with upgrading and stats added on for the purpose of appealing to fans of the genre.

>>20556505
the excel spreadsheet program included with it. each one can get tabs or even subtabs if you want

>>20556418
Focus on the novel. Write a chapter of the litrpg whenever you are tired from the novel.

>>20556538
Do at least a little research if your going to wade into a new genre. Read about five chapters of he who fights with monsters if you are still interested in taking the shit-rpg pill

>>20553298
The first sentence doesn't work for me. I see the idea behind it, why you did that, but I don't think it works here. Leave it out and you have a better story.

Also I don't quite buy it that Gabriel sat there and did nothing (or cried) while the narrator chatted on the phone It would make more sense if they struggled over the phone first if Gabriel really cared for his life. And if he didn't care for his life, why would he even run away at the end?

If you want us to care about Gabriel or really process the act of "killing" your best friend, it would be better if you started with an anecdote or story about your relationship with him.

As it is, we're only told this is your "best friend" but have no basis for believing it, so the impact is not felt. It's another reason to leave out the first sentence. Let the reader decide for himself whether Gabriel is really your friend or not. Terms like "best friend" are really kind of meaningless.

>>20556585
The idea is that he's not actually dead.
Here's an anecdote shortly after if you could be bothered to read it. I think it's decent, but honestly I could be wrong.

i'm on the final line-edit before i'm ready to query. any last tips?

>>20556675
find a publishing kike and suck him of

>>20556675
How involved are your line edits? Are you wordsmithing or just touching it up?

>>20555653
Because I have a 36k act one, act two starting now, and a final act that I can't imagine being under 20k. I'd like to keep the whole thing at or below 90k if I can so it's publishable or at least palatable.

>>20556038
Won't help, by letting another person (a female even in this case) control your creative output you have lost any chance at giving it SOUL.

>>20556657
Why not start with this second sample instead?

The other problem with your original sample is that it's still not telling us what the argument is about or what things are being said. That makes it unbelievable. If these are truly "best friends" then the fight must be extraordinary, not a normal occurrence, especially if it compels one actor to cause the death of another.

I think an approach I would take to this is to first set up their relationship via an anecdote/history (as you have in your second sample), then create a conflict situation that would result in this argument, and then finally, LAST, have the narrator realize that the guy was the best friend he ever had.

>>20556796
But is it interesting, though? The hook is important, no?

>>20556851
You are setting yourself up for an impossible task if you think the first line has to do the job of hooking the reader.

It takes more than one line.

I think your "hook" comes closer to the end of what I outlined where the narrator realizes Gabriel is the best friend he ever had, and now he has to figure out how to save his life. That's basically where the story starts, and where the reader will be hooked.

Most readers are willing to read through a few pages. Forget the idea that the first sentence has to do it or else you're doomed. Sure, sometimes it works. But in your case, I don't think it's working for the reasons I mentioned.

https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/383183937#top

I hope you idiots are happy for being responsible for this

>>20556942
don't blame us, we can't control where Gardner shills himself

>>20556942
That’s not the only one dude. There have been nonstop F. Gardner threads on /pol/. Often multiple at a time, like this.

>>>/pol/383161169

>>20556942
>>20556953
This is unbelievably based. Probably the biggest thing this board has ever accomplished.

>>20556942
>>20556953
>>20556975
>t. person who made those threads.

Why did this board get so slow? Because the larper disappeared?

>>20556561
I read the first five chapters and it's exactly what I expected from what learned of the genre by seeing people here talk about it.

>>20556988
some days it's faster some days it's slower. what are you gonna do?

>>20557005
when it's fast it's usually just two guys pissing on each other's legs.

>>20556988
I forgot to tell you all of my blog posts and 1k words I wrote today

> Opening with dialog can be a great asset to a story because it's not common, it instantly engages readers in an ongoing conversation and pulls readers in emotionally to an experience with a set of characters. That's why dialogue can work very well as an opening to a novel. It's immediate.

- https://www.writingbeginner.com/can-you-start-a-novel-with-dialogue/

I've heard this was bad to do, but I also hear it's interesting to do.

>>20557211
I start my story with a piece of dialogue which, repeated some chapters later for a different reason, becomes incredibly poignant for the main character. Now that distance of chapters is closer to three or four books, but...

>>20557143
What did you blog about? I already made a list of topics I wanna write about every several weeks, on story telling, poetry, some techniques, among other things like interviews I hope. Things are going well for my writing projects, hoping to be done early winter.

>>20557287
It's a joke. Because we know nobody here reads, now nobody writes either.

>>20556953
F Gardner is a chad

>>20557134
Amen, or one guy spamming a dead meme, or the same five people sharing the same piece every single thread.

Let's enjoy some quiet time and talk about craft, progress, and life as a non-manchildren.

>>20557143
Noice, I also shoot for 1k a day. Just counted and hit 1,366 which is funny because I was certain it would be ~800. All on my cell phone while my daughter napped.

>>20557211
It's really a style choice so no wrong answer per se. I come out against it in most cases unless the line is core to the story. My logic is this - unattributed dialogue is generally bad as it doesn't give the reader the mental framework to understand who is saying what in what context so you need to have a really strong justification

>>20557232
This sounds cool

>>20557298
But I'm reading Ulysses along with /lit/ and also reading Look Homeward Angel in the mean time.

>>20556953
>>20556942
>>20556952
>>20556975
How did F. Gardner get so famous? Is it just because he’s written so many books? Is that really the key to success?

>>20557319
Being insane unironically helped his image.

>>20557319
He’s like Chrischan. Only if Chrischan’s writing was actually a blast to read. Yes, I’m defending Gardner. Call of the Crocodile was the funniest book I’ve ever read. See pic for what I mean. The fact that the book is pretentious and edgelord added to the comedy. Basically The Room in book form.

I guess this is a good time to post this here. You’re welcome.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-XqMrk296uo

>>20556258
Self-publish it?
Post it on a web-novel site like RoyalRoad?

>>20557352
extremely cringe video

>>20557311
>This sounds cool
I'm glad you think so. The book starts with the MC as a boy talking to his mom as she's teaching him the history of his country and later on, his daughter and him have a similar conversation of the same topic.

>>20557362
Go to bed Gardner

>>20557352
Wait. This book is about the Great Reset? This sounds awesome. Fuck you guys for misleading me about this.

>>20557445
Congratulations. You now realize why it’s memed on /pol/ and /x/ in addition to here.

>>20557319
No, it's because he's a NEET tranny with rich parents.

>>20557474
every time

>>20557606
So he isn't?
I thought I was stating known facts.

>>20557474
>rich parents
>NEET

Not sure it works like that. By that logic Batman is a NEET.

>>20556785
>below 90k
I always find it so mystifying that people have this arbitrary limit to a book. arc, story. Its not even like an attention span thing with chapter word length (which is completely understandable) but almost like the writer is admitting that they don't have enough ideas or skill to maintain the readers attention. As a reader, I love nothing more than finding out that after the first few gripping chapters I have another forty chapters to go.

What is the preferred method of cleaning a book? I have some old and dusty ones that I want to try cleaning but I'm scared of ruining them

New thread >>20557667

>>20557628
Isn't Bruce Wayne the president of Wayne Industries?

>>20557628
f gardner, you are no batman.

>>20557686
Yeah but the black guy from Bruce Almighty does all the work

>>20556703
I've already done the major revisions and everything, which was a lot. I think out of the entire first draft, all but 2 sentences were changed. Now it's just easy grammar edits.

>>20557633
I'm interested in being trad pubbed and I've heard walking through the door with 150k word manuscript is an immediate no go.

I'm not creatively bankrupt or whatever you're implying, I just want a tight focused story in the normal book length that most humans will finish (which is just as relevant as chapter length).

I didnt realize there was a writting general does anyone want to read my post >>>20557699

identify aesthetic and structural flaws in this dogshit prose of mine

>Every baptism is an attempted drowning and yours is no different. Your head meets the water and then it's not just the priest, it's the deadweight of ten thousand and one unrealized men begging you to join their fate deep in the trenches of obscurity. Not just your father and his father but his father and his father too and not to forget his father and snake up the tree for a bit next thing you know you're back at Adam and he's shaking his fist at the sky too. At that aeonically futile scale the only thing keeping you grasping for air is the part that even God couldn't get rid of (or didn't care), that prokaryotic drive to eat-and-fuck-world-be-damned still nested deep in your limbic system and deeper in your serpent-cursed heart.

You give up the fist shaking and wait for a response. He mocks your puny life and it destroys you. The mocking is your only birthright. You cannot hold your birthright; it makes up for this in its omnipresence. He revels in the fact that each step that you take now and forever will always carry a scent of doubt and audible cowardice leaving behind a greasy trail of inadequacy. You are the slug and He is the little boy with the salt shaker leering above just about ready to kill another living thing for the first time. Of course, for Him, this would be nothing close to a first.

In spite of this baroque misery, He forgot people like you are short-sighted enough to (quickly) forget anything that's not physically in front of them. As soon as these woes had began, you realize that after you stopped shaking your fist you now have two empty hands with nothing to grab. Yet. This optimistic development coincides with the priest finishing the trinity of his dunks, leaving you free to once again breathe sweet air. Your lungs bloat for the first time as His child. After coughing and spluttering for half a minute like a Chevy left out in a hurricane, you smile to yourself, proud that you would do pretty well as a prisoner of war. You hope this marks the start of some real change in your life, a new chapter for the man you once were fourty-three seconds ago. Fortuna spins and she spins up just for you! The priest makes a mental note to use even less force than he does on the grade-schoolers the next time someone comes in looking as sorry as you.