/lit/ - Literature

>>20535061
Fujoshis who are mentally ill heterosexual women that believe they are men

It's the words eromenos and erastes. Basically it means that they jacked off together and shared a tent.

>>20535085
And where do these words occur in the Iliad?

>>20535061
It's the exact same psychosis as teenage girls shipping Captain America with Bucky Barnes, only it's 2400 year old Athenian aristocrats doing it. It's uncanny.

>>20535061
An interlocutor in Plato's Symposium mentions that Aeschylus interprets them as lovers

>>20535102
Not in the Iliad, but Plato's Symposium.
>Very different was the reward of the true love of Achilles towards his lover Patroclus-his lover and not his love (the notion that Patroclus was the beloved one is a foolish error into which Aeschylus has fallen, for Achilles was surely the fairer of the two, fairer also than all the other heroes; and, as Homer informs us, he was still beardless, and younger far). And greatly as the gods honour the virtue of love, still the return of love on the part of the beloved to the lover is more admired and valued and rewarded by them, for the lover is more divine; because he is inspired by God. Now Achilles was quite aware, for he had been told by his mother, that he might avoid death and return home, and live to a good old age, if he abstained from slaying Hector. Nevertheless he gave his life to revenge his friend, and dared to die, not only in his defence, but after he was dead.

>>20535102
No that starts with Aeschylus, iirc. There's a lot of court cases in Greek which accuse Homer of hiding the gays behind the male form of "courtesan". So if you want, Achilles is a male escort in Homer, but that doesn't really make it sound less gay.

>>20535119
Notice that they can't even agree which one is the seme and which one the uke.

>>20535061
they were gay. get over it

>>20535194
they weren't gay. get over it

>>20535061
Jews

>>20535061
It came from Athens in the Classical age.

>>20535119
>>20535124
So it's essentially the Greek equivalent of Stephen Fry or Lin-Manuel Miranda accusing the prophet Muhammad of being a sodomite?

>>20537300
>essentially the Greek equivalent of Stephen Fry accusing the prophet Muhammad of being a sodomite?
exactly

>>20535061
>Where did the whole "Achilles and Patroclus are lovers" thing come from?
From the story.

>>20537604
It didn't tho

ITT: seething christtards who can't get over the fact that sexuality can't be controlled by their fairy tale book

>>20537300
>accusing
extolling

>>20535061
Achilles was a pre-Greek hermaphrodite deity. In fact, he was a woman whose cunt was on the heel.
Achilles lived among women, wore women's clothes, but because of her peculiarity, she remained a virgin and therefore possessed supernatural powers, like the goddess Artemis, and she was the only virgin in this harem.
Of course, she had only a platonic relationship with Patroclus, because she did not lose her supernatural powers. Remember, Achilles had a special armor, which hints that he definitely did not display male physiology. In addition, Achilles shows typical feminine features. She easily falls into a rage, but just as easily falls into a melodrama (the episode when Achilles gave Priam the corpse of Hector).
Achilles was like Artemis, so she was only vulnerable to the arrows of her brother Apollo. It was Apollo who directed the hand of Paris to hit Achilles in the heel. Those. Achilles was deprived of her virginity, she lost her supernatural powers and died.

In addition, the first stanzas of the Illiad refer to "the goddess who must sing the exploits of Achilles." Male heroes were usually patronized by male gods. This is very suspicious.

The sanctuary of Achilles was on the Serpent Island, which is now being reconstructed as a sanctuary for the serpentine goddess of the Scythians. The pussy of this goddess was located on snake processes. She was the mistress of Hercules. The Age of Heroes began with her, and the Age of Heroes ended with her death.

>>20538298
>>20538247
meds: now

>>20538340
In all classical ancient writings, homosexuality is condemned. Only enemies are called faggots, so the meds had an aversion to faggots.
It's just ancient history in the English-speaking world studied by fagots from Oxford and other gay colleges. They found artifacts belonging to perverts that blasphemously recounted ancient history, and they made this abomination an axiom.

Listen.
In Britain, the ruling class is mired in homosexuality and pedophilia. But most Britons condemn it. Freaks and faggots are this small layer of freaks, and even among the aristocracy there are many who hate them, but the human eye is always looking for deviation.
There are deviations in any society, but any society hates them.
We just need to rally, all normal people. Christians, Muslims, and other Hare Krishnas, and destroy the sadistic pedophiles, cannibals, necrophiles!

>>20538247
What?

>>20538382
Not him.

>>20538429
Your racism is inappropriate.
Jesus was also a meds.

>>20537300
>Aeschylus is like Stephen Fry
>Aeschines is like some literal who
No.

>>20535061
>>20535072
>>20535114
>>20538382
>I shall speak first about Homer, whom we rank among the oldest and wisest of the poets. He mentions Patroklos and Achilles in many places, but he keeps their erotic love hidden and the proper name of their friendship, thinking that the exceptional extent of their affection made things clear to the educated members of his audience.
Aeschines, Against Timarchos 142-3

>Aeschylus talks nonsense in claiming that Achilles was in love with Patroclus (rather than the other way around), for Achilles was more beautiful than not only Patroclus but all the other heroes as well; and besides, he was unbearded, and thirdly, far younger than Patroclus, as Homer says. Well, anyhow, though the gods really hold in very high esteem that virtue which concerns love, they wonder, admire, band confer benefits even more when the beloved has affection for the lover than when the lover has it for the beloved.
Plato, Symposium 179e-180b

>And you did not respect the chaste consecration of the thighs, oh ungrateful that you were for those countless kisses!
Aeschylus, Myrmidons, Fragment 135

>I honored the intimacy of your thighs by bewailing you
Aeschylus, Myrmidons, Fragment 136

>No, pleasure was the mediator even of their friendship. At any rate, when Achilles was lamenting the death of Patroclus, his unrestrained feelings made him burst out with the truth and say "The converse of our thighs my tears do mourn with duteous piety."
Ps-Lucian, Amores 54

>Love affairs were such an open and everyday matter that the great poet Aeschylus, and Sophocles too, put sexual themes on the stage in their tragedies, Aeschylus showing Achilles’ love for Patroclus.
Athenaeus 13.601

>>20538382
>In all classical ancient writings, homosexuality is condemned
post an example. also greek homosexuality was discussed constantly by medieval christians

>>20538634
>I am actually convinced that bisexual Steve and SteveBucky as a romantic dynamic were in fact written deliberately into the narrative, or, better, are structural elements of the narrative, because the emotional narrative is structurally made of parallels between the relationship between Steve and Peggy - the relationship of the past - and the relationship between Steve and Bucky - the relationship of the future - and it’s all too architectural in the narrative to not be deliberate.
postmodernmulticoloredcloak, Tumblr

>>20535061
One of the tragedians made a joke about it, and academia nuts took it from there.

>>20538801
>Aeschylus would make Achilles grief over Patroclus a "joke"
>none of the other Greeks read it this way
hetero copes are getting insane

>>20535061
Patroculus was merely a older brother figure for Achiles. They grew up together.

"Menoetius gave Patroclus to Peleus, Achilles' father, who named Patroclus Achilles' "squire" as Patroclus and Achilles grew up together, and became close friends. Patroclus acted as a male role model for Achilles, as he was both kinder than Achilles and wise regarding counsel."

All the claims of faggotry come from an age of decay nearing the fall of Greek society.

>>20538934
>All the claims of faggotry come from an age of decay nearing the fall of Greek society.
Aeschylus was not "decay". He would destroy you. Also homosexuality was a respected Greek institution long before the Classical era

>>20538860
Aischines's "Homer totally meant them to be gay, he just kept it secret" is just as much of a cope though

>>20538953
I don't disagree

>>20535061
That their love is even something that has to be proven as 'gay' against the 'default' assumption that theyre exclusively heterosexual and just friends is a much more recent invention. In Greece, but also in for example the Babylonian epic of Gilgamesh, homosexual love was quite common and did not label you as different from normal. With this background in mind, you have to be very dense not to read the relation between Achilles and Patroclus as lovers. See also the multiple references to Plato made throughout the thread.

>>20538967
Why is the homosexuality implicit if much heterosexuality in the Iliad is explicit?
5th century BC Athens is not culturally identical to the context in which the Iliad was composed. Greece was not homogenous across time and space.

>>20538953
Aeschines is all cope. He was just trying to keep bribery from Macedon a secret.

>[Aeschines's] dilatoriness during the second embassy (346 BC) sent to ratify the terms of peace led to him being accused by Demosthenes and Timarchus on a charge of high treason. Aeschines counterattacked by claiming that Timarchus had forfeited the right to speak before the people as a consequence of youthful debauches which had left him with the reputation of being a whore and prostituting himself to many men in the port city of Piraeus. The suit succeeded and Timarchus was sentenced to atimia and politically destroyed, according to Demosthenes. This comment was later interpreted by Pseudo-Plutarch in his Lives of the Ten Orators as meaning that Timarchos hanged himself upon leaving the assembly, a suggestion contested by some modern historians.
Damn

>>20535061
>be Homer
>lives in Ancient Greek were, according to modern people, homosexuality was normal
>makes a poem about Achilles
>talk about heterosexuality a lot
>even has gods making sex
>doesn't talk about homosexuality at all
>doesn't even imply anything
Yet people want me to believe Achilles and Patroclus were lovers. kek

>>20539383
>Homer
>>makes a poem
Please stop being a retard

>>20539383
He does mention Zeus and Ganymede. He also has the character Phoenix make a different comparison between the relationship of Meleager and his wife and the relationship between Achilles and Patroclus. According to this essay Achilles' mother Thetis also places metrical emphasis on the word 'woman' when she tells Achilles to have sex with a woman to get over his grief of Patroclus

https://www.jstor.org/stable/4476069

>>20539399
*direct comparison

>>20538941
>Also homosexuality was a respected Greek institution long before the Classical era

>>20539408
Read the Archaic lyric poets.

>>20539412
dum dum you can't even conceive how anachronistic your statement is

>>20539430
*licks your taint*

>>20539443
Aw cmon he's obviously a virgin, you can't rush him like that.