/lit/ - Literature

Do you have any idea how much shit I have to work through before I get to your 10k page chart on why water is good and plastic is bad? Political philosophy was a mistake.

>>20531456
Tell me what is troubling you?

What do you have to work through? Stress doesn't exist in nature.

>>20531420
because its not philosophy. the second you think of something critically the idea of lower case n "nature" becomes a largely nebulous catagory. They are more contextual and I dare say MATERIAL and practical problems rather than philosophical.

ie: hippy dippy bullshit.

>>20531650
>What do you have to work through?
A lot of books.
>Stress doesn't exist in nature.
I disagree with this statement for several reasons that I do not feel like explaining.

>>20531420
>Nature good globohomo bad
Self evident. Why would I read 10 books saying this over and over?

How is Engels book on Dialectics of Nature?

Can anyone make out the message it has on the title page?

>>20531869
It's German

>>20531869
It's an inscription from a mother and father wishing their child happy birthday.

>>20531420
Include Linkola

>>20532329
I'm not racist...

>>20531420
The caring ones have left to start their new lives.
They’re all in better places right now.

>>20531420

>>20532607
Back to your containment board.

>>20532607
Fascists are liberals at bottom. And warmongers throughout. There is nothing ecological about them

Go back to your containment country and face the Russians

>>20531420
What do you expect of the pecuniary millennials, Gen x and boomers?

>>20532745
Yikes...a Putin supporting leftist lmao.

>>20531420
>Ecophilosophy
>No Linkokla
>No Kaczynski

Sure, keep jerking off about how much you care.

>>20532942
Just edit them in, edgelord.

>>20532611
>>20532745
Let me guess, you have never read any ecology texts

>>20533037
Mein Kampf isn’t ecology.
Go back.

>>20533047
>sees the word nationalist and ecofascism once
>starts drooling on the keyboard MUH FASH
>doesn't actually know what the words mean in any context outside of instagram polemics

Please read a book

>>20531420

took a J-term in college, a philosophy class about concepts of nature. Was actually interesting, ecofeminist texts were assigned alongside some Naess readings and other classical stuff. The circle discussions were pretty good for an undergrad class.

>>20531869

"You have failed to Triforce properly."

Love, your Father and Mother

>>20533062
>more blind smarm
I’m reading ecology books. The kind free of racial nationalistic motives. That’s ancient ideology that’s led us to trashing the earth. As outdated as religion.

>>20531420
What's this philosophy about? How will it help me live my life?

>>20531420
Is it compatible with Christianity? Or more eastern religion only?

>>20533405
Often the religious have a nasty habit of just letting things go and waiting for the Apocalypse, God’s plan or some shit. They’ll turn the other cheek every time.

Not all though. Wendell Berry’s good. Belongs on the list imo

>>20533420
Also, it says part of deep ecology is having an obligation to attempt to implement the necessary changes? Would I have to sell my condo and move to a homestead or some shit like that? Surely cities aren't part of this.

>>20531420
Protecting the environment is gay. We should be causing as much environmental destruction as possible in order to prevent wild animals born being born.

https://scholar.sun.ac.za/bitstream/handle/10019.1/124595/raal_wild_2022.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

>Most people have an idyllic view of nature and believe that wild animals have good lives. But nature is a hostile place. In addition to the suffering inflicted upon prey by their predators, many wild animals are victims of infectious disease, extreme weather, starvation, and parasitism. Yet it is often claimed that an abundance of wildlife is desirable. The aim of this thesis is to challenge this premise. My argument will proceed in four parts. Firstly, I will show that the lives of most wild animals are characterised by a surplus of negative experiences, and that there are a myriad of ways in which wild animals suffer. Secondly, I will challenge the notion that wildlife has intrinsic value by considering, and arguing against, two related claims: that the lives of individual wild animals have intrinsic value, and that wild species as wholes are of intrinsic value. Thirdly, I will consider whether wildlife has instrumental value, and if so, whether it is sufficient to justify traditional conservation methods. I conclude that this is not the case. Finally, I will argue that it may be best for most wild animals not to be born at all, a view I refer to as weak wildlife antinatalism. While such a conjecture may strike many as deeply counterintuitive, I will make the case that it is both technically feasible and morally desirable.

>>20531456
>>20531655
>>20531734
i feel at home. philosophy doesnt need those "save the world" zoomers (that btw wouldn't ever build a DIY bomb).

>>20533462
>aaaa we have to exterminate all wildlife because cities make me sad
i hate this faggot species so much

>>20533521
Lol true

>>20533462
>Protecting the environment is gay.

I'm so glad the human race is going to die soon. Faggots like you would rather live in gray soulless concrete hellholes like San Francisco and New York City. Cities are gay and degenerate places filled with fags and violent human chimps.

>>20533037
Neither have you evident from your chart, Kevin

>>20531420
>climate consciousness
How about we don't waste our time with this lame shit

>>20533239
Have you considered that until you read an ecofascist book you have no valid opinion on it? I'm willing to bet a large sum of money that you simply saw the word "ecofascist" and came to an incorrect conclusion about the movement based entirely on etymology.

The alternative is that you did read it and still write these retarded things, which I'm giving you the benefit of doubt is not happening

>>20533513
>wouldn't ever build a DIY bomb)

>>20532607
Could add 'Man and Earth' by Ludwig Klages to that chart.

>>20533047
Mein Kampf isn't on the chart though?

>>20532371
Neither is Linkola.

>>20531869
Unsrer lieben Ingeborg Geburtztag gewidmet von vater und mutter.

Basically in rough i'd say to our beloved Ingeborg on your devoted birthday from dad and mom is what I think it means, german nor english being my first language.

>Attfield, A. (1994), Environmental Philosophy: Principles and Prospects, Avebury.
>Barnhil, Dl and Gottlieb, R. eds. (2010), Deep Ecology and World Religion: New Essays on Sacred Grounds, State University of New York Press.
>Callicott, B. (1997), Earth's Insights: A Survey of Ecological Ethics: From the Mediterranean Basin to the Australian Outback, University of California Press.
>Callicott, B and McRea, J. eds. (2014), Environmental Philosophy in Asian Traditions of Thoughts, State University of New York Press.
>Cavalieri, P. ed. (2016), Philosophy and the Politics of Animal Liberation, Palgrave Macmillan.
>Carl Cohen, C. and Regan, T. (2001), The Animal Rights Debate, Rowman & Littlefield Publishers
>Foltz, R. and Denny, F. eds. (2003), Islam and Ecology: A Bestowed Trust, Harvard University Press.
>Foster, J. (2000), Marx's Ecology against Capitalism, Monthly Review Press.
>Foster, J. and Burkett, P. (2016), Marx and the Earth: An Anti-Critique, Brill.
>Hay, p. (2002), Main Currents in Western Environmental Thought, Indiana University Press.
>James Jamieson, D. ed. (2003), A Companion to Environmental Philosophy, Blackwell Publishing.
>McDonald Minteer, B. ed. (2009), Nature in Common: Environmental Ethics and the Contested Foundations of Environmental Policy, Temple University.
>Nash, R. (1989), The Rights of Nature: A History of Environmental Ethics, The University of Wisconsin Press.
>Nelson Ouderirk, W. and Hill, J. eds. (2002), Land, Value, Community: Callicott and Environmental Philosophy, State University of New York Press.
>Pepper, D. (1993), Eco-Socialism: Fromm Deep Ecology to Social Justice, Routledge.
>Pepper Pojam, L. ed. (2001), Environmental Ethics: Readings in Theory and Application, Third edition, Wadsworth.
>Preston, C. and Ouderirk, W. eds. (2007), Nature, Value, Duty: Life on Earth with Holmes Rolston, Springe.
>Regan, T. and Singer, P. eds. (1989), Animal Rights and Human Obligation, Prentice Hal.
>Regan, T. (1984), The Case for Animal Rights, University of California Press.
>Regan, T. (2005), Empty Cages Facing the Challenge of Animal Rights, Rowman & Littlefield
>Regan Rolston, H. (1989), Environmental Ethics: Duties to and Values in the natural World, Temple University Press.
>Singer, P. (2002), Animal Liberation, Ecco Press.
>Taylor, P. (2011), Respect for Nature: A Theory of Environmental Ethics, Princeton University Press.
>VanDeVeer, D. and Pierce, C. eds. (1994), Environmental Ethics and Policy Books: Philosophy, Ecology, Economics, Wadsworth Publishing Company, 1994.
>Witoszek, N. and Brennan, A. eds. (1999), Philosophical Dialogues: Arne Naess and the Progress of Ecophilosophy, Rowman & Littlefield Publishers.
>Zimmerman, M.n et al. eds. (1998), Environmental Philosophy: From Animal Rights to Radical Ecology, Prentice Hall, Second Edition.

Here is list of books we used in my environmental philosophy class

>>20535566
How much of that is really necessary to read to get a deeper understanding?

>>20531754
please no.

>>20531734
To understand how exactly globohomo is bad and nature is good. Also to see if something can be done about it.

>>20535619
Depends on what the topic is; general environmental philosophy, animal rights, religion and environmentalism, env. ethnics, ecomarxism, deep ecology.

The sylabus was even longer, but we cut out some because it was too long ecofeminism, taoism and confucism I should probably add them to the list as I have names of the works, but I didn't read them not even the obligatory chapters.

The more you read the more you will understand. If I have to pick one it would be Nash, it was first one we read and debated the most on. The rest choose the topic you are interested in the most and read.

>>20535654
>Also to see if something can be done about it.
You're not going to gain any knowledge that can give you your Tiananmen square moment with BP in a book about normative arbory.

>>20533462
>argument one: life doesn't matter
>argument two: the animals are sad :(
>argument three: letting animals live is too expensive
>argument four: the animals are sad :( AND life doesn't matter

is this guy for real

>>20535708
Do I have to become a vegetarian?

>carnivorous predators eating prey starting genitals first
>nature is so stress free

>>20531420
Why that particular book of Morton's?

>>20531420

>>20536425
>argument one: life doesn't matter
>argument two: the animals are sad :(
>argument three: letting animals live is too expensive
>argument four: the animals are sad :( AND life doesn't matter
All of these statements are true

>>20533807
>Faggots like you would rather live in gray soulless concrete hellholes like San Francisco and New York City.
I would rather all life stop existing entirely.

>>20537745
This, but with Nietzsche

>>20531420

>Bookchin

His schizo-Hegelian view of nature is the opposite of actual ecology.

How about some books with opposing views to contrast with? I don't like just reading a bunch of books all in support of an idea. Got a list for that?

>>20538230
So you wanna hear how the fossil fuel industry is saving the planet, preventing wars and building community. You want the cyberpunk dystopia to be seen as Utopia.

Even the nazis are pretending to be ecological, anon.

>>20539620
So there's no one that advocates for our current trajectory? In a thoughtful way?

>>20539967
>>20538230
Just read up on neoliberalism.

>>20539971
I was hoping for ones that specifically address the types of ideas in the OPs books. Or does that mean the environmentalists are right and everyone just ignores them out of convenience?

>>20539984
Personally I believe the environmentalists are right and anyone who denies that is either ignorant or acting out of short-sighted self-interest. However I disagree with plenty of environmentalists on how we get to the goal: sustainable human civilization on a healing planet. For example I think ecofascists are bad.

>>20539995
Are the ecofascists the ones that are blocking roads and yelling at people and getting into fights with motorists?

>>20540000
Not to my knowledge. Those protestors are misguided I think, but not as much as ecofascists.

Ecophilosophy basically boils down to anti-natalism and genocidal extermination of (sub)humans. We must reduce world population to approx. 500 million people or less if we are to save our planet. And we should begin with eliminating the biggest polluters, indians chinese africans, californians, ...

>>20540055
All it would take is promoting birth control and family planning in Africa. Everyone else is responsible.

>>20537758
So is "the sky is blue" but I'm not reading your whole ass book about it let alone changing my behavior because of it.

>>20540078
If people have to live more in nature they would be farming more and stuff for themselves. They'll probably have more kids to help run their household. Once people stop relentless consuming they'll have more money and can sustain children.
Though, I don't think the population needs to drop that much, just a little. It didn't seem overcrowded when I was a kid. Now it's packed for some reason. I can't even climb a mountain without running into a dozen people.

The natural world is a material possession.

>>20531420
>Why is Ecophilosophy so unpopular on /lit/?
Because people here don't read it.

>>20540204
It's unpopular and people don't read it because it makes them uncomfortable and people don't want to change their ways.

Cuz tech > nature.
One day we may turn our entire nature into technology and vice versa.

>>20540425
That's what all the tech ceos promise. We have this great tech on the way, it'll solve all the problems! Then it's shit or never arrives and makes shit worse.

>>20537762
And why is that ?

>>20540000
Most of those faggots are blm protestors. I have tried to not hate on black people, but hard not to when there the only race show looting store during news reports.

>>20540730
Oh, where I am it's to stop logging. They cause thousands of cars to idle for hours though. Good going.

>>20531869
i wonder why he gave it away... must have sucked. maybe he's dead... i've always wanted a haunted book xD

>>20533513
Zoomies need something to push them over the edge, like a mass power outage or the internet being down for ten days.

>>20540740
this is basically edgy-4chan-things-i-like.jpg
most of these books have nothing to do with ted who rejects anarcho primitivism
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ted-kaczynski-the-truth-about-primitive-life-a-critique-of-anarchoprimitivism
also obligatory guenon/evola because fuck you it's /lit/
this is the closest you'll get to tedcore https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13569317.2021.1921940

>>20533462
>thesis finished this april
You wrote this didn't you?

>>20540974
>edgy-4chan-things-i-like.jpg

Do your eyes not work? Almost none of that shit was eco fascist.

>>20539984
The fourth industrial revolution by Klaus Schwab? I mean you asked for it.
Also the nutjobs affiliated with Sustainia/Copenhagen Climate Council and anyone who claims new technologies will solve these "challenges"

>>20531420
Read Ellul.

Basically, it’s over. Global warming will proceed to destroy Earth as we know it. Plastic pollution will render humans and possibly all mammals infertile. We have exhausted and polluted the Earth’s resources. It’s over.

>>20531869
newfags can't triforce

>>20540740

>Desert Solitaire
>This is America's Walden.

What?

>>20533462
You're part of the biosphere whether you like it or not and that's never going to change.

>>20535619
Stop posting and start reading

>>20533239
>As outdated as religion.
???
Look into indigenous religions of the Native Americans, they are ecological.

>>20532607
deep fagcology is more like it

>>20531650
>Stress doesn't exist in nature.
you've never spent time in nature beyond hiking in your local maintained forest

>>20535566
Did reading these change your behaviour/lifestyle at all? if so how?