/lit/ - Literature

Niger

>>20528855
Fundatur

>>20528878
fundatur? fundatur in quid?

Is it worth it to learn modern greek?

>>20528897
why would you want to read anything a modern greek has to write?

>>20528909
Not him, but Kazantzakis' Odyssey sequel looks cool.

Do you use any useless filler words in your latin?
What are some useless filler words?
Like in english words like
>"alright" I think I better do something
>"okay" time to go
>"like" what even is that?
>it's "basically" a joke
>"I mean" should we get lunch?
>I like dogs "you know"
>so you know Jack's hair "you know"?

>>20529218
ecce

In the last llpsi chapter, what is the difference between ab and a? do they not both just been "from/away"?

>>20528471
Okay I've given it a second go.
I still don't have an intuive feel for the sentence structure of passive but I think this is an improvement.

>Ambulatne Julius?
Julius non ambulat sed is portantur ab servis.
>Qui Julium portant?
Julius portantur ab servis est.
>Quid portant Syrus et Leander?
Syrus et Leander saccos portant.
Sacci sunt portantur a Leandro et Syro.
>Unde venit Julius et quo it?
Julius Tusculo villam suam it.
>Quo it Medus?
Medus Tusculo Romam it.
>Etiamne Cornelius Tusculo Romam it?
Cornelius non Roman it sed Tusculam it.
>Ubi habitat Cornelius?
Cornelius Tusculi habitat.
>Cur Medus laetus est?
Medus laetus Amicam it, quae Romae habitat.
Laetus in ambulo Medus est quia eius amicam quae Romae habitat is ambulatur ad.
>Quae est Lydia?
Lydia Medum amicae.
Amica ad Medum Lydia est.
Lydia a Medo amatur et ea eum amat.
>Quid habet Medus in sacculo suo?
In sacculo Medi sunt pecunia Julii.
Medus Julium pecuniae habet in sacculo eius.
Pecunia ab Julio in sacculo Medo habetur.
>Suntne amici Julius et Medus?
Julius et Medus inimici sunt.
>Num portat verbum passivum est?
'portat' non est passivum sed activum. 'portatur' passivum est.

>>20529374
From Duolingo I've gathered that it's the same difference between an and a? But I could be wrong.

>>20529374
before vowel vs before consonant, same meaning

>>20529218
these are modal particles

>>20528897
I've been thinking the same. Having the chance to watch Greek movies and converse with natives would no doubt help in reaching fluency in classical Greek.

>>20529681
>Watching the BBC and ordering fish and chips would no doubt help in reaching fluency in Old English.

>>20529374
It's basicaly the same as a/an

>>20529720
yeah that's literally how ESL speakers learn to read Chaucer

>>20529720
I think it ought to be mentiond that learning German actually helps more in learning Old English than modern English does because English lost a huge portion of its native Germanic vocabulary and the more complex aspects of its grammar, such as grammatical gender, declensions, and strong verb conjugations.

>>20530004
Will German help with Gothic?

>>20530019
Kind of, but it's part of the eastern, not the western branch of the Germanic language family, so German would probably not benefit you any more than Icelandic would in learning Gothic.

>>20530019
I know German, no Gothic at all, but can make sense of almost every word of the transliterated Lord's Prayer on Wikipedia, so it would probably help quite a bit.

Why do you want to learn Gothic, though? There's nothing to read except that partial Bible translation, or is there?

>>20530041
I know that, but I wonder if German would help with Gothic more than Old Norse. Norse is N. Germanic. Gothic is E. Germanic. But German is W. Germanic.

I guess what I'm asking is if German or W. Germanic languages in general are closer to North or East linguistically.

>>20530048
A lot of people who are interested in linguistics seem to really enjoy learning it just for for fun. J.R.R Tolkien even wrote poems in it. Also I hear good stuff about Thomas Lambdin's Gothic and Coptic textbooks being some of the best old fashioned primers ever made. I wouldn't mind going through Lambdin's book over 3 months or so of my life just to enjoy playing around with the language.

I'm already career switching into STEM so I don't have to do unskilled labor anymore. I don't need more utilitarianism in my life as is. Need some joy.

>>20530074
>STEM
>I don't need more utilitarianism in my life as is.
Being in STEM heavily relies on justifying all of your actions by talking about why they're useful and what the benefits are of anything you propose with regards to performance, expenses, flexibility, and manoeuvrability. Keep in mind that you might mot always be left with a lot of spare time to study Gothic, except maybe during the weekends (if you're lucky).

>>20530074
Fair enough. Just so you see I didn't make things up, here's the transliterated Gothic and below each line (somewhat ungrammatical) German, so you can see how closely it matches. The words in brackets are were I wasn't able to see a German cognate.

> atta unsar þu in himinam
vater unser, du in himmel
> weihnai namo þein
(ge)weihet name dein
> qimai þiudinassus þeins
komme [königreich] deins
> wairþai wilja þeins
werde wille dein
> swe in himina jah ana airþai
so in himmel auch in erde
> hlaif unsarana þana sinteinan gif uns himma daga
laib unseren, den [täglichen], gib uns immer tage
> jah aflet uns þatei skulans sijaima
auch ablass uns dass schuldner sind
> swaswe jah weis afletam þaim skulam unsaraim
sowie auch wir ablassen den schuldnern unseren
> jah ni briggais uns in fraistubnjai
auch nicht bring uns in [versuchung]
> ak lausei uns af þamma ubilin
aber löse uns ab dem übel
> unte þeina ist þiudangardi jah mahts
und dein ist [königreich], auch macht,
> jah wulþus in aiwins
auch [herrlichkeit] in ewig

>>20530171
cute! I can't wait to learn both

>>20529481
>>Ambulatne Julius?
>Julius non ambulat sed is portantur ab servis.
Portatur,
>>Qui Julium portant?
>Julius portantur ab servis est.
Portatur, and delete that "est"
>>Quid portant Syrus et Leander?
>Syrus et Leander saccos portant.
>Sacci sunt portantur a Leandro et Syro.
Portantur, remove sunt
>>Unde venit Julius et quo it?
>Julius Tusculo villam suam it.
>>Quo it Medus?
>Medus Tusculo Romam it.
>>Etiamne Cornelius Tusculo Romam it?
>Cornelius non Roman it sed Tusculam it.
Roman, Tusculum
>>Ubi habitat Cornelius?
>Cornelius Tusculi habitat.
>>Cur Medus laetus est?
>Medus laetus Amicam it, quae Romae habitat.
Medus laetus est quia...
>Laetus in ambulo Medus est quia eius amicam quae Romae habitat is ambulatur ad.
??
>>Quae est Lydia?
>Lydia Medum amicae.
amica Medi
>Amica ad Medum Lydia est.
Medi
>Lydia a Medo amatur et ea eum amat.
>>Quid habet Medus in sacculo suo?
>In sacculo Medi sunt pecunia Julii.
>Medus Julium pecuniae habet in sacculo eius.
Iulii, pecuniam
>Pecunia ab Julio in sacculo Medo habetur.
Iulii, a medo
>>Suntne amici Julius et Medus?
>Julius et Medus inimici sunt.
>>Num portat verbum passivum est?
>'portat' non est passivum sed activum. 'portatur' passivum est.

>>20529806
>ESL speakers learn to read Chaucer

>>20530459
>Portatur, portatur, portantur
Yeah I keep confusing whether it should go to signular or plural.
>Roman, Tusculum
aa typo typo
>??
My translation is "Medus is happy in walking because his girlfriend, who lives in Rome, he is walking towards."
>amica Medi
I keep mixing up the genitive too, I find it hard to tell whether it goes to the subject or the object.
>Julii pecunium etc
Same as before

Thanks for the critique, it seems most of my trouble here is ascribing the wrong forms to things. ie in the first one the sentence includes both Julius(singular) and Servis(plural). Julius is being carried by the servants so does the world carry (portat) go to Julius or to the servants?

With enough practice I'll surely get it down

latin puns?

>>20530642
semper ubi sub ubi

>>20528811
Is it worth it to learn modern greek?

>>20530691
Why? I mean what is your goal with the language? What do you hope to achieve?

>>20530691
modern greek isn't a classical language, get the fuck out and never come back. fuck you retards who keep bringing it up.

>>20530716
Kill yourself nigger

>>20530733
>>>/lgbt/

Latin literature started in 100BC
Greek literature started in 900BC

>>20530770
Another ortholarper enters /clg/.

>>20530770
*gets enslaved and forced to tutor senators' sons in latin legends*

>>20530770
> Latin literature started in 100BC
Better tell Plautus.

>>20530851
He's reading off of Wikipedia or something.

>>20528897
>>20530691
it's not worth it if you have dementia

>>20530866
If he would do that, at least:
> The beginning of formal Latin literature dates to 240 BC, when the first stage play was performed in Rome.
I don't get it, no one is denying that Homer is older than Plautus. Why not stick to conventional dates, when it makes no difference?

>>20530597
>it seems most of my trouble here is ascribing the wrong forms to things. ie in the first one the sentence includes both Julius(singular) and Servis(plural). Julius is being carried by the servants so does the world carry (portat) go to Julius or to the servants?
The verb always coordinates with the subject
>My translation is "Medus is happy in walking because his girlfriend, who lives in Rome, he is walking towards."
ad ambulo is nonsensical, I still don't understand why you used the passive, and I doubt you can put prepositions at the end of the sentence
Imo
>Medus laetus ambulandi est quia ad Lydiam, quae Romae habitat, ambulat.
And I'm not sure if you can say ad + name of person or use it like that.

>>20531081
>And I'm not sure if you can say ad + name of person or use it like that.
I mean, with verbs like ambulo, eo, etc

Questions from the last thread.

1. Anyone learning any Germanic languages like Old Norse, Old English, or Gothic?
2. Anyone partially studying one anguage for cultural context on another? Like some Ugaritic for Hebrew or parts of Sumerian for Akkadian?
3. Has anyone hear actually studied any eastern languages like Sanskrit or Classical Chinese? Seems people complain that it's always about Latin, but whenever people ask about other languages, they rarely get any answers. (trying to fix that here)
4. For those of you who went from Koine Greek to Biblical Hebrew, how jarring was that for you? Was it your first non-Indo European language?
5. Are there many secular things to read in Coptic and Syriac?
6. What's your favorite Latin textbook written before 1920?
7. What modern language do you think is more useful for a classical language polyglot - French or German?
8. Which classical language has the best writing system and why?
9. What are the best Greek textbooks not named Athenaze?
10. What are useful YouTube channels on this topic that aren't just input/anki faggotry?

>>20531276
> 5. Are there many secular things to read in Coptic and Syriac?
You should rather ask "any" instead of "many". It's a wasteland.

學漢文者、在此線乎?

>>20531383
Konichiwa, dude

>>20531383
Hehe, how do you type those funky symbols magic man?

>>20531383
αἰβοῖ, τίνα ταῦτα τὰ βάρβαρα σημεῖα;

>>20531473
That's Classical Chinese.
>>20531477
With an IME, duh.
>>20531500
Classical Chinese is a classical language too. One of the world's five great classical languages along with Latin, Greek, Sanskrit, and Arabic.

>>20531509
>That's Classical Chinese.
I don't care I dig all asian chicks

>>20531379
That was really mean

>>20528909
Because the chicks are hot

>>20531704
Oh shush, there's a lot of good literature and philosophy in Classical Chinese.

>>20531276
>1. Anyone learning any Germanic languages like Old Norse, Old English, or Gothic?

I've always thought it would be cool to learn Old English. But there are far fewer resources and texts to read.

>>20532016
I've experimented with the idea of reading Old English in modern reflexes, like how Chinese-speakers read Old Chinese.
https://voca.ro/1gznAci6WZql

>>20532063
Post tits
Or alternatively
You will NEVER be a woman

>>20532074
Last time I posted my tits on a blue board I got banned for 3 days.

>>20532080
A girl.... AND a gamer? Whoa mama! Hummina hummina hummina bazooooooooing! *eyes pop out* AROOOOOOOOGA! *jaw drops tongue rolls out* WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF *tongue bursts out of the outh uncontrollably leaking face and everything in reach* WURBLWUBRLBWURblrwurblwurlbrwubrlwburlwbruwrlblwublr *tiny cupid shoots an arrow through heart* Ahhhhhhhhhhh me lady... *heart in the shape of a heart starts beating so hard you can see it through shirt* ba-bum ba-bum ba-bum ba-bum ba-bum *milk truck crashes into a bakery store in the background spiling white liquid and dough on the streets* BABY WANTS TO FUCK *inhales from the gas tank* honka honka honka honka *masturabtes furiously* ohhhh my gooooodd~

>>20532093
Yeah I've seen this copypasta, what's your point here exactly?

>>20532007
like?

>>20532016
>20532016
>But there are far fewer resources and texts to read.
I hear this about several languages, but let's be honest - you're not going to read the entire Sanskrit, Latin, Chinese, Arabic, & Greek libraries before you die even if you read 12 hours a day anyways. You might as well just learn something that you are interested in, instead of picking a language based on statistics that have no bearing on whether or not you will actually enjoy it.

>>20532080
slut

>>20532080
Women who pay attention to me and unconditionally love me I want to make happy but women who aren't attracted to me I want them to feel pain.

>>20532175
Like all this stuff.
https://ctext.org/

>>20532181
Yep, and proud!
>>20532217
Why?

>>20531276
1. I gave learning Old English a try a few weeks before I got into learning Latin and read some fragments from Beowulf and the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle.
6. Latin for Beginners is the only one I've looked at and the one I stuck to.
7. Germany has a very long, important philological tradition, with lots of Greek and Latin classics being available with commentaries and footnotes in German, so I would bet on that.
I've got no answer for the other questions.
>>20531704
Even the ones with dicks?

Starting LLPSI. How often do you guys reread a chapter? The early chapters seem pretty easy so for now only twice or so would suffice, right?

>>20532217
based

>>20532521
After like 4 or 5 times it's brutal and boring.

>>20532335
>Even the ones with dicks?
You mean the guys with tits.

>>20532521
I read until I encounter a chapter I find to be difficult and then I go back and re-read everything
Eventually you just start knowing that an earlier chapter isn't really worth re-reading so you skip that

>>20532583
We get it, you're insecure in your sexuailty.

>>20532707
Weak bait

>>20528811
Threadly reminder that there is little to no difference between Classical and Ecclesiastical Latin grammar.
A dictionary is absolutely necessary, even for experienced readers of Latin

>>20532179
>you're not going to read the entire Sanskrit, Latin, Chinese, Arabic, & Greek libraries before you die even if you read 12 hours a day anyways

Really? If could read Latin as quickly as I read English, I could demolish Caesar, Cicero, Seneca, Virgil, Horace, Livy, Sallust, and Tacitus in less than a year. The ancient corpus is shallow.

>>20532969
The Latin corpus does not end with antiquity (and that isn't all the ancient stuff either.) In fact only about 5% of surviving Latin is from antiquity.

>>20532063
I hate this and I can't articulate why.

It sounds so fucking wrong. Like some broad with a stereotypical Jersey accent reciting Shakespeare. 'To be owr nawt to be, that is the question.'

If you're going to shout HWAET! You need to sound like one of the fucking Rohirrm, not my grandma.

>>20532976
>In fact only about 5% of surviving Latin is from antiquity.
I specifically said the ancient corpus.

>>20532982
Hey, it's just the same thing Chinese speakers do with Classical Chinese. Bet you don't hate hearing Li Bai read in Mandarin readings.

>>20532969
>I could demolish Caesar, Cicero, Seneca, Virgil, Horace, Livy, Sallust, and Tacitus in less than a year.
You do realize that everything in Western Europe up until the 17th century that was worth a damn was written in Latin. You would speak German and pray in Latin. You would be a Spaniard and sign a treaty with a French man in Latin. You would be born in Wales and visit Italy to speak Latin. If you translated the bible into anything besides Latin you would be burnt alive. Everything for over 1500 years was in Latin - science, religion, politics, witchcraft, mythology, folklore, history, plays, etc...It's a lot more than just the Gallic Wars and the Aeneid.

>>20532987
>I specifically said the ancient corpus.
I didn't and you were replying to my post. I said you couldn't read it all in a lifetime along with the entire corpora of Greek, Arabic, Chinese, & Sanskrit. And you can't.

>>20532987
Yes, but my point is that the ancient corpus ISN'T all there is and you shouldn't act as if it is.

>>20532994
>everything in Western Europe up until the 17th century that was worth a damn was written in Latin.
Oh shit, I had no idea Dante, Boccacio, Cervantes, and Shakespeare wrote only in Latin.

>Everything for over 1500 years was in Latin
And how much of this body of work do modern students of Latin read for instruction?

Everyone loves to gush about all the untouched treasures of latin literature, and yet the only authors anyone talks about lived between Plautus and Boethuius.

>>20532989
>Bet you don't hate hearing Li Bai read in Mandarin readings.
I don't know who that is and I don't understand Mandarin, but I'm sure it sounds like someone strangling a cat. How do contemporary mandarin speakers feel about it?

>>20533022
>modern students of Latin
where are these?

>>20533022
>And how much of this body of work do modern students of Latin read for instruction?
Very little, but not for lack of intrinsic merit; modern Latin programs are fixated on the classical period and ignore much of the perfectly good later literature.
>I don't know who that is and I don't understand Mandarin, but I'm sure it sounds like someone strangling a cat. How do contemporary mandarin speakers feel about it?
It's pretty much the only way Classical Chinese is read- in modern pronunciations. Reconstructions are basically just a curiosity.

>>20533034
*raises paw*

>>20533022
>read for instruction?
For whatever reason you commented on a post and you aren't even addressing what it said. I'll repost here since you are a fucking mouthbreathing retard:
> you're not going to read the entire Sanskrit, Latin, Chinese, Arabic, & Greek libraries before you die even if you read 12 hours a day anyways.
It does not say "you'll never read your local school's selected texts before you die".
>Everyone loves to gush about all the untouched treasures of latin literature,
I'm not gushing over anything. I'm sure 70% of it is absolute dogshit. The point of the original post that you seem to not understand is that in a bizarre way I was making YOUR VERY POINT. The point being that quantity is not quality. A guy wanted to learn Old English and I encouraged him by saying lots of languages have larger corpora, but there's so much that you would never get to anyways so just learn the language you are interested in, even if the corpus is small.

You are such a fucking knuckle dragging chimp who can't even read that you didn't notice we are making the same point. Get out of this thread, I recognize you. You are that weirdo that starts arguments over absolutely nothing. Fuck off, you always kill these threads.

>>20533022
The other guy there is overestimating the importance of Latin in Medieval literature, but it is true that there's lots of historical chronicles, law books, theological and philosophical treatises, books on various subjects like rhetoric, cooking, mining, warfare, arithmetic, a bit of poetry, some lives of saints and kings, some books on alchemy and demonology, among other stuff that comes from that period between the fall of the Western Roman Empire and the French Revolution.
Descartes wrote his Meditations in Latin. Both Copernicus and Newton wrote their most important scientific works in Latin too. Dante wrote some stuff in Latin as well. Even Kant wrote his PhD thesis in Latin.
The important works are all available translated over to English nowadays, but if you wanna do some research on your town's history or on lesser known movements in Renaissance era Italy and Spain, knowing Latin might come in handy.

>>20533057
How much of the medieval Latin poetry is in length-based meter vs. stress-based meter based on the phonology they would have actually spoken it with?

ok big brain latini, here's something,
=-=-=-=-=-------------========---=-=

7:58) TO GALLA
(OR: ON THE GREEK HUSBANDS OF ROMAN WOMEN)

You have fucked and outlived six or seven husbands already, Galla with a mortuary* for a cunt, I think it must your little moustache and long boy-like hair that confuses them that you are in fact a Woman;

your cries muffled by a chewing-leash in your mouth your cunt endures being treated like a boys rectum by these husbands of yours; but their pricks are quickly rendered useless and then you stagger from the unspent bedchambers of these effeminate pederasts and fall face-first into thighly-embrace of more familiar company.**

Say, Galla, you ought seek a husband instead from among the Curates***, one who in speech is more like the Ancient Fabians than the Modern Athenians, one with a shaggy beard and the truculence of a stubborn country-farmer, you will find such Men; but even among our fearsome Tribe you will still encounter the occasional boy-fucker.

Indeed, it is difficult, Galla, to marry an Actual Man.
Marcus Valerius Martialis
Book Seven
* Cinaedis; GAY’NI’DES (like Gyno) : basically Latin for ‘Whore’ or ‘Slut’ which reads also as ‘Funeral Urn’ Cin ‘being held by a Priest’ Aedi; probably in the sense of producing no children yet being sexually active; e.g. a womb which produces ashes-of-death rather than life.

**then she goes down on other Women.

***Curites or Curates; KOH’RAY’TEEYS (assembly of spears) : the Roman name for the Romans.


[Iam sex aut septem nupsisti], Galla [cinaedis*], [dum coma te nimium pexaque barba iuuat];

[You have fucked and outlived six or seven husbands already,] Galla [with a mortuary* for a cunt,] I think [it must your little moustache and long boy-like hair that confuses them] that you are in fact a Woman;

[deinde experta latus mandidoque simillima loro inguina nec lassa stare coacta manu,] [deseris inbelles thalamos mollemque maritum,] [rursus et in similes decidis usque toros.]**

[your cries muffled by a chewing-leash in your mouth your cunt endures being treated like a boys rectum] by these husbands of yours; [but their pricks are quickly rendered useless and then you stagger from the unspent bedchambers of these effeminate pederasts] and [fall face-first into thighly-embrace of more familiar company.]**

Quaere aliquem Curios*** semper Fabiosque loquentem], [hirsutum et dura rusticitate trucem: [inuenies; sed habet tristis quoque turba cinaedos.]

[difficile est uero nubere, Galla, uiro.]

Say, Galla, [you ought seek a husband instead from among the Curates***, one who in speech is more like the Ancient Fabians] than the Modern Athenians, [one with a shaggy beard and the truculence of a stubborn country-farmer,] [you will find such Men; but even among our fearsome Tribe you will still encounter the occasional boy-fucker.]

Indeed, [it is difficult, Galla, to marry an Actual Man.]

>>20533057
>The other guy there is overestimating the importance of Latin in Medieval literature,
No I'm not holy shit you guys have lost the plot.

A guy wanted to learn Old English. He said the corpus was small and was second guessing the idea. I said if you take the most popular classical languages, there corpora are so large (I DID NOT SAY IT WAS ALL GOOD) that you would never be able to read it all in a lifetime. The point was that picking a language just for a large corpus does not guarantee quality and you won't get to it all anyways. So why not learn Gothic or Old English if that's your passion. Please follow the replies next time and don't misrepresent my point. I wouldn't use medieval literature for toilet paper if it was all that was available, personally.

>>20533070
Isn't the Bible pretty much the only thing that exists in Gothic?

>>20533048
>you're not going to read the entire Latin library before you die

You can definitely read the entire classical latin canon before you die. If you are fluent, it won't even take you that long. There's just not that much.

Sure, you may not be able to read every diary of each random renaissance nobleman or every last chronicle from every monastery. But why would you want to?

I don't even know why you are so angry.

>>20533066
It depends on the region. People back in the Middle Ages pronounced Latin in accordance to the timing and stress rules of their native language. Latin language poems written by German or English people rely on stress timing whereas poems written by French and Italian speakers rely on syllable timing.

>>20533066
There's a shift in the early middle ages, when they stop trying to use classical length-based meter and just start using stress and also rhyming.

>haec in fossa Baedae venerabilis ossa

>>20533070
>A guy wanted to learn Old English. He said the corpus was small and was second guessing the idea.

Fuuuck, is this what started the argument? When I said the corpus was small, I didn't mean to imply the language wasn't worth learning. Just that it would be harder to learn with fewer examples to read.

>aemilius' letter to aemilia in chapter 33
holy kino. I'm close to tearing up bros. what a well written chapter. last chapters of llpsi are just excellent.

>>20533138
>Cum epistulas tuas lego, apud vos in Albano esse mihi videor, neque in hac terra frigida inter homines barbaros. Turn, nescio quomodo, ita permoveor ut lacrimas vix teneam - ita patriam et amicos meos desidero.

>Ridebis certe, mea soror, nec sine causa, nam ridiculum est tales res optare, nec lacrimas effundere militem decet, cuius officium est sanguinem effundere pro patria.

>>20533138
>Ego cum ceteris hac victoria gloriosa gaudeo quidem, sed multo magis gauderem si amicus meus PUblius Va lerius, quocum primum stipendium merui, incolumis esset et mecum gaudere posset. Qui cum mihi in hostes progresso auxilium ferre vellet, ipse ex acie excurrens pilo percussus cecidit. Graviter vulneratus in castra por tatus est, ubi in manibus meis ex vulnere mortuus est, postquam me oravit ut per litteras parentes suos de morte filii consolarer. Sed quomodo alios consoler, cum ipse me consolari non possim?

I wasn't ready for this shit.

>>20533086
There's stuff from after the classical period that's worth reading even if most of it is crap.

>>20533082
Yep. Very cool language though.

>>20533165
Fateor me lacrimas effiidisse cum oculos eius clausissem, sed illae lacrimae et militem et amicum decebant, etenim malus amicus fuissem, nisi lacrimas effiidissem super corpus amici mortui, cum ille sanguinem suum pro me effudisset.

>>20533203
>Utinam patrem audivissem, cum me ad studium litterarum hortaretur!

Seriously, this chapter from a goddamn Latin textbook is one of the most emotionally affecting things I've ever read.

>>20533048
>you always kill these threads
>every thread he's in hits bump limit

>>20533260
There's at least 2 guys in these threads that pick fights over the most random shit. And they are usually misrepresenting the other side in order to argue against the position that they actually have a dispute with. But since nobody here represents those fringe ideas, they have to pick the next closest thing and then accuse that person of holding some bizarre antiquated linguistic or pedagogical view.

LLSPI Read Along Chapter 7

This chapter introduces the dative case

>>20533212
Fuck Romans they were the chuds of ancient times

>>20530597
if you are in doubt you can check with the English is/are. You wouldn't write "Julius are being carried by the servants"

>>20533424
I'm pretty sure the dative gets more complicated later on, but for this chapter atleast, it is just the "giving" case.
Jack gives Tony the ball

>>20533424
>dative
you can clearly deduce its function from his name
>dativus
>gib me dat

What do you guys think about the Dowling method?

>>20533431
Other than the grammar, I remember stumbling on some of the vocabulary here because it sounded similar to words I had seen before
Ostiarus = door man =/= Ostium (door)
Osculum = kiss =/= Oculus (eye)
Just throwing that out there incase anyone else made the same silly mistake there and wondered why those respective sentences made no sense

>>20533434
It's pretty effective although it takes some time.
I'm currently on 4" dowels, hoping to reach 6" by the end of the month but it's certainly getting tricky, the wood keeps absoring all the lube.

>>20533445
>6"
>wood
>lube
Is this implying what I think it is implying?

>>20533445
you're supposed to laminate the wood you fucking idiot, enjoy your splinters

>>20533424
>>20533431
>>20533439
Thanks for your service

>>20533424
Chapter 7 C questions

>Venitne Julius Roma?
Julius unde in Roma non est sed venit a Tusculo.
(or unless the question is "is Julius arriving in Rome?")
Julius villam suam venit.
>Quis ostium aperit et claudit?
Ostiarius servus est qui aperit et claudit ostium.
>Quid inest in saccis?
In sacci Leandro pala sunt et in sacci Syro pira sunt.
>Cui Julius malum primum dat?
Julius Marco malum primum dat.
Malum primum a Julio datur ad Marcum.
>Cui Aemilia osculum dat?
Aemilia Julio osculum dat.
Osculum ab Aemilia datur Julio.
>Estne Julia in horto?
Julia in horto non est, sed in cubiculo suo cum Syra.
>Ridetne Julia?
Julia non ridet est sed lacrimat quia foedum nasum eius in speculo videt.
Nasus foedum videtur in speculo a Julia eo eam lacrimat.
>Quo Julia currit?
Julia currit a cubiculo Atrium it.
Atrium a cubiculo Julia curritur.
>Quid Julius dat filiae suae?
Julius filiae suae malum et pira dat.

I definitely have trouble with the suum words in this chapter, and I gave some more attempts to the passive sentences, so I will reread this chapter sometime today but I won't post a second attempt at the questions unless I find i've gotten most of them completely wrong.

>>20533552
>>Venitne Julius Roma?
>Julius unde in Roma non est sed venit a Tusculo.
Julius Romae non est / Julius a Romā non venit
>(or unless the question is "is Julius arriving in Rome?")
>Julius villam suam venit.
>>Quis ostium aperit et claudit?
>Ostiarius servus est qui aperit et claudit ostium.
>>Quid inest in saccis?
>In sacci Leandro pala sunt et in sacci Syro pira sunt.
in sacco (in + abl.) Leandri (gen. "of Leander) mala sunt et in sacco Syri pira sunt
>>Cui Julius malum primum dat?
>Julius Marco malum primum dat.
>Malum primum a Julio datur ad Marcum.
>>Cui Aemilia osculum dat?
>Aemilia Julio osculum dat.
>Osculum ab Aemilia datur Julio.
>>Estne Julia in horto?
>Julia in horto non est, sed in cubiculo suo cum Syra.
>>Ridetne Julia?
>Julia non ridet est sed lacrimat quia foedum nasum eius in speculo videt.
just ridet, not ridet est. I think you may be trying to say "she IS not crying" but this construction doesn't exit in Latin.
>Nasus foedum videtur in speculo a Julia eo eam lacrimat.
eo ea (nominativus) lacrimat
>>Quo Julia currit?
>Julia currit a cubiculo Atrium it.
>Atrium a cubiculo Julia curritur.
>>Quid Julius dat filiae suae?
>Julius filiae suae malum et pira dat.

>>20533625
>in sacco (in + abl)....
Ah that seems so obvious, of course it's an ablative after in, I guess I was too focussed on trying to do something else in the sentence that I ended up making such a simple mistake.
>just ridet
you're right, I was trying to say "she IS not crying" with enough reading I should hopefully break out of those english habits.
>eo ea (nom...)
I had a lot of trouble with this one. it's good to see I did somewhat okay with it though. It sounds like my passive sentences are getting a little better.

Thanks for the critique! I know it must be a bit of effort but I assure it's greatly appreciated!

>>20533651
You're welcome! Correcting your posts is a nice practicing exercise for me, too.
Don't forget to always double check my corrections, I may have made some mistakes, too.

>>20531276
>parts of Sumerian for Akkadian?
akkadian is also to some extent necessary for sumerian
>5. Are there many secular things to read in Coptic and Syriac?
no

>>20534196
>>5. Are there many secular things to read in Coptic and Syriac?
>no
The only thing that comes to mind is the Syriac version of Kalīla wa-Dimna that's older then the Arabic. But that one hasn't even seen a critical edition, since some frog misplaced the manuscripts at the beginning of the century, never to be seen again.

>>20534220
>Kalīla wa-Dimna
Well, that sent me down a rabbit hole

I cannot read latin or write it but I passed my university exam in it by 92%

Any data about the classical latin corpus out there? Something like running through all the Loeb's with a text analyser to give us the most common words, how many three letter words there are in Latin, all the hapax legomona, perhaps even the differences between classical and medieval vocabulary usages presented via quantitative analysis?

>>20534858
Yes people have done all of that in the 1800s you are 200 years late

Does Latin ever use prepositions before infinitives the way Romance languages do? I hate that shit.

>>20533138
Does the story get more serious in the later chapters?

>>20534997
not really, quite less anyway thanks to cases, also the infinitive as a noun is represented in all cases but nominative by the gerund
besides the very common construction ad + gerund accusative to express e.g a purpose, I don't think you'll often meet preposition + gerund/infinitive
e.g "legatis respondit diem se ad deliberandum sumpturum" - Caesar
compare "ad deliberandum" with Italian per + infinitive, "per deliberare"

>>20535002
definitely. I feel like Orberg intentionally shifted the main attention throughout the book, so that both the plot and the language get more advanced organically. The first chapters center around Iulia, the middle part mainly around Quintus and Marcus and the later chapters around Medus and Iulius. Iulia completely vanishes after chapter 10 and once the subjunctive is introduced there's no more Marcus and Quintus. The last chapters are almost on the level of real authors. Chapter 34 contains passages from Ovid, poems from Catullus and epigrams from Martial

>>20535101
>Chapter 34 contains passages from Ovid, poems from Catullus and epigrams from Martial
I'm scared.

>>20535101
I'm on chapter 18, any advice?

>>20535101
Does Quintus ever walk again?

>>20535222
DON'T SPOIL IT.

>>20535222
I want to find out if Medus ever gets turned into a quarry slave for his crimes.

>>20535391
I'm pretty sure the punishment for his crimes are far more severe than that
and he deserves every fucking bit of it for being a filthy simp

>>20528811
So in Latin does the Nominative always take the 3rd person verb? I notice that most if not all examples I'm studying use this construction. If the sentence were in the first or second person would I even be able to use the nominative? Like:
>>Poeta puellam amo.
This is incorrect right? Unless there is an implicit sum making for a predicate nom (I, the poet, love the girl)? But even that seems like a stretch.

>>20535578
>there is an implicit sum making for a predicate nom (I, the poet, love the girl)?
This is correct. Remember third person verbs can elide their subjects too. "(Caesar) he-runs" is not that far-fetched or far off from "(I, a fat man) I-run."

>>20535578
maybe would be a bit weird but it should be possible to use a noun predicatively like that even in first person
but when it comes to pronouns and demonstratives obviously all persons are legit and common, e.g ipse/egomet puellam amo, as well as adjectives

>>20535578
You can use apposition with a different person than the actual subject, but you should put the appositional noun close to the subject (if the subject is omitted as in this case, put it next to the verb, preferably after), to make it clear. So instead of "poeta puellam amo", write "puellam amo poeta", for example.

>>20535578
>>20535612
>>there is an implicit sum making for a predicate nom
You mean an implicit ego?

Livy has a sentence like this, I think:
> hostis hostem occidere volui
Took me a while to parse it as:
> I, an enemy, wanted to kill the enemy

>>20535612
>>20535616
>>20535638

gracias ago amicis meis


>You mean an implicit ego?
I meant an implicit "Sum poeta puellam amo" making for a sort of apposition between the first person subject and the noun with which it is a predicative statement. But even this would translate as "I am the poet who loves the girl" which is different from "I love, the poet, love the girl." Right?

>>20535689
>"I love, the poet, love the girl."
ahhh that typo burns my eyes
>I, the poet, love the girl.

related to the current question, I'm getting the idea from a glance at wikisource that proto-Indo-European had a participle of the verb "to be", but it survived only in some languages like ancient Greek? does e.g Sanskrit have an equivalent of ὤν?
ancient Greek would remove any ambiguity using the participle ὤν, ποιητὴς ὥν κόρην φιλῶ, while Latin doesn't have "essens, -ntis"

>>20535689
> But even this would translate as "I am the poet who loves the girl" which is different from "I, the poet, love the girl." Right?
I would say so, yes. If the "sum" is implicit, then the relative pronoun "qui" would also have to be implicitly present. Instead, I would just imagine an implicit "ego", that's less of a stretch. Not that it changes much: I wouldn't write a sentence like this, but if Livy got away with it, I wouldn't call it incorrect either.

The important point is that there's no strict relation between the nominative case of the subject and the person of the verb. "Ego" is nominative, but is used with a 1st person verb, same with "tu" and 2nd person. You just don't see them as often, because those pronouns are commonly dropped.

Bored by Homer? The Astronautilia is 6500 verses of Homeric Greek, written in 1995, and seems positively insane.

Some Anon in the archives claimed
> I read the German translation and it was godly but even then I still feel something was missing from the original Greek.
but Wikipedia says that the German translation is still in the works, so no idea what that guy read exactly.

>wheelocks translation exercises contained in chapter don't have answers
Wtf this book is garbage

>>20536659
It's designed to be used in a school, not self study. This way students can't cheat. The teacher usually assigns the end of chapter questions as homework or as a quiz the next day.

This is standard practice for school books. Orberg doesn't have the answer key either. Self study text books usually have answers.

>>20536702
Well, at least in the case of Lingua Latina, the answers are all contained in the text. But in the case of Wheelock's I've always heard people recommend it for self study. Do people just get by with the meagre self tutorial exercises at the back?

>>20536724
Just read for comprehension. Don't translate. That's what I do with Wheelock. You either understand what you are reading or you don't. All the words are defined. All you have to do is make sense of it.

If you really need the key you can email the editor Richard LaFleur and he will send it to you for free. You can also find it on zlib and download it there.

>>20536756
>Just read for comprehension
Just to clarify, you're referring to the excercises contained in the chapters that you're supposed to translate into English, correct? I might just do this instead, then.
>You can also find it on zlib and download it there.
I had no idea. Thank you.

>>20536702
This is why language teachers are a scam, what a fucking waste of money

>>20536768
You don't have to translate anything. Whatever language you are learning, just make sure you can read properly. The only thing you need to translate ever is English (or your native language) into your target language. This can't be checked by an answer key, but by feedback from a native speaker. So for Latin just make sure you comprehend everything before you move to the next chapter.

If it's not on Zlib it's definitely somewhere else on the internet. I don't actually remember where I downloaded it. I think it was there. I think I may have even just typed "wheelock answer key" into my search engine. Good luck anon.

>>20536772
It's really not a scam if you know what you are buying. Don't make impulse purchases without knowing what kind of book you are buying. If it's highly used in schools, like Wheelock, then it definitely does not have an answer key inside. This makes the book useless for teachers, especially in the early chapters when there just isn't enough vocabulary to rewrite your own exercises without them more or less looking the same as the ones that the students have the answers to. Also lots of publishers will happily send you a pdf if you kindly email them. Have a good day bro!

>>20536790
> You don't have to translate anything. Whatever language you are learning, just make sure you can read properly.

The only way to make sure I can read properly is to consult a translation and compare it to my understanding.

>>20536804
Sorry the waste that I was referring to is in the teacher going through textbooks, not the textbook itself
Especially in a language like latin where you aren't really going to be focused on speaking/writing so much as reading
You can't make unmotivated students learn a language with classes and for the motivated students they aren't getting anything out of the classes that they can't get themselves
All classes do is make students pass exams

>>20536837
>All classes do is make students pass exams
I feel what you are saying. There are a few textbooks designed for selfstudy and holy shit are they way better. They know what people hope to get out of the language and they target that. They tend to be faster and harder, but much more rewarding. Latin an Intensive Course is a nice alternative to Wheelock. It was designed to get someone reading as quickly as possible, not really made for typical exams vocab lists or anything like that.

>>20531276
>5. Are there many secular things to read in Coptic and Syriac?

language that only has religion to it and no sort of culture hence why theyre dead and only liturgical kek

Which language has easier texts to begin with, Old English or Old Norse?

>>20536884
I think the reason Coptic and Syriac are dead is because of this thing called Islam, but okay.

>>20531383
何學書文言? 現代無用乎!

>>20536837
Gauss once said that lectures were useless to those that wanted to learn, because they would study by themselves, what they need is someone (a professor) to point them to the right work to read, what shortcut to takes and so on, instead of wasting their times(and the professor's) in a class.

>>20537317
豈無用哉?數年前、妾住學舎、與隣房二女子交信、用文言也。今則亦在一Discord服器、為以漢文筆談萬事之廳也。子欲之則可以與其連結。

>>>/int/166411994
>>Easy
>Hello. How are you?
Salve. Quid agis?
>Today I have to go to the store.
Hodie tabernam iturus sum.
>Isn't the weather nice today?
Estne hodie tempestas bona?
>>Medium
>Do you want to go to lunch tomorrow afternoon? I'll pay if you choose a place I haven't been to before.
Visne ad prandium cras post meridiem ire? Persolvam ego si locum, ubi antea non fuerim, elegeris.
>We should meet outside the office tomorrow in that coffee shop that is on the corner of Main and 1st avenue. Then we can walk to the restaurant.
Oportet cras congredi extra officinas, apud eam tabernam quae prope bivium Principalis et Primae Viae est.
>After this I'm going to go home and study <TL> because <reason you are studying TL>.
Postea, domi ad latinum discendum ibo, quod latinus sermo multum mihi placet.
How bad is it?

LLPSI Read Along Chapter 8

in which Medus is a simp

>>20538274
This chapter is the point where the book takes a step up in difficulty. to compensate for this, I will now be posting chapters every other day instead of everyday. (and perhaps around chapter 14-15 I will extend this further but I haven't settled on that yet)
This is not a decrease in intensity, you should spend the same amount of time focussed on LLPSI everyday, but you now have more time to allocate to each chapter. I suspect by the time we reach chapters 30+ I'll be posting them one week per chapter

>>20538282
If anyone has any input or complaints about that, feel free to speak up.

Anyway this chapter is all about pronouns. I recommend you get a chart for "Qui, Quae, Quod" and "Hic, Haec, Hoc" words and just keep them at hand since you will be using them an awful lot for this chapter and further chapters. Personally I have mine written on a piece of paper where it's easily accessed whilst reading.

>>20538289
Other ones like "Is, ea, id" and various sua, suum, etc words are useful to have references as well but qui and hic are the most common

>>20538290
After a while you'll have practiced them enough to not need references.

>>20538294
So just to clarify, tomorrow there will not be a LLPSI Read Along post... but there will be one the day after tomorrow.

>>20538289
oops sorry, add "Ille, Illa, Illud" to the list of important ones

>>20538274
>>20538282
>>20538289
>>20538289
>>20538290
>>20538294
BASED

>>20538289
>"Qui, Quae, Quod" and "Hic, Haec, Hoc"
>>20538290
>"Is, ea, id" and various sua, suum, etc words
I would recommend to memorize them as soon as possible. You need to know them by heart and recognize them automatically, otherwise, when you will encounter them, you will be wondering what case and gender and number those are and you will fill up all the "slots" of your working memory, possibly before finishing the sentence.

>>20538282
>Ille anulus centum SESTERTIIS constat
Realize the "ablative of price".

>>20538361
imagine paying that much for a century of constant anal

>>20538364
Ah yes, that's how much it costs in the tree parties of Gaul according to Caeser isn't it

>>20538274
Chapter 8 C questions

>Quid Albinus vendit?
Albinus ornamenta vendit.
Albinus in Tabernae eius, ornamenta habet. In hoc, ille venditor illud vendit.
(Albinus has ornaments in his shop, in here, that vendor sells those.)
>A quo Aemilia ornamenta accipit?
Aemilia ornamenta ab Julio accipit.
Julius Aemiliae ornamenta dat. ab eo, ea illa accipit.
(Julius gives Aemilia ornaments. from him, she accepts those.)
>Ambulatne Medus cum domino suo?
Estne Medus cum domini eius? Immo, is abest eo et villa eius. Is cum amicae, in Roma illi ambulatur.
(Is Medus with his master? on the contrary, he is away from him and his home, he is with his girlfriend, in Rome they walk.)
>Ubi Medus et Lydia consistunt?
Is et ea ante tabernam Romae consistunt. Lydia se vertit ad Taberna.
(He and her stop before the shop in Rome. Lydia turns to the shop.)
>Cur Medus magaritas non emit?
Medus margaritas non emit quia illos nimis magnum pretium, etiam, amica sua jamque illa ornamenta sed anulum ea non habet.
(Medus doesn't buy those becuase the price is too great, also, his girlfriend already has those ornaments but she doesn't have a ring.)
>Cur Lydia nullum anulum habet?
Ante Medum salutat, Lydia nullum pecunia habet, jam Medus ab Julio omnio pecunia carpit, is pecuniosus et emit anulum et Lydiae illa dat.
(Before meeting Medus, Lydia had no money, now that Medus steals all of Julius' money, he's rich, buys a ring and gives it to Lydia.)
>Estne vacuus sacculus Medi?
Nunc est.
>Quot sesteriis constat anulus gemmatus?
Anulus gemmatus centum sestertium pretium habet.
>Ad quem digitum anulus convenit?
In digito quarto digitum convenit, ante illud, Medus ponitur in medio digito sed illud non convenit.
(It fits in fourth finger, before that, Medus put it on the middle finger but it didn't fit.)


I've included in perenthesis english translations of what I was attempting to say, to make up for the vagueness of all the Illes and Illuds.
Going along with what >>20538334 said, my memory of these words is weak and I need more practice, so I will try to read and practice this stuff as much as I can.

>>20538585
>>Quid Albinus vendit?
>Albinus ornamenta vendit.
>Albinus in Tabernae eius, ornamenta habet. In hoc, ille venditor illud vendit.
In tabernā, in hac (or hic), illa vendit
>(Albinus has ornaments in his shop, in here, that vendor sells those.)
>>A quo Aemilia ornamenta accipit?
>Aemilia ornamenta ab Julio accipit.
>Julius Aemiliae ornamenta dat. ab eo, ea illa accipit.
>(Julius gives Aemilia ornaments. from him, she accepts those.)
>>Ambulatne Medus cum domino suo?
>Estne Medus cum domini eius? Immo, is abest eo et villa eius. Is cum amicae, in Roma illi ambulatur.
Cum domino, cum amicā, illi ambulantur
>(Is Medus with his master? on the contrary, he is away from him and his home, he is with his girlfriend, in Rome they walk.)
>>Ubi Medus et Lydia consistunt?
>Is et ea ante tabernam Romae consistunt. Lydia se vertit ad Taberna.
Ad tabernam
>(He and her stop before the shop in Rome. Lydia turns to the shop.)
>>Cur Medus magaritas non emit?
>Medus margaritas non emit quia illos nimis magnum pretium, etiam, amica sua jamque illa ornamenta sed anulum ea non habet.
Quia pretium illarum, illa ornamenta habet
>(Medus doesn't buy those becuase the price is too great, also, his girlfriend already has those ornaments but she doesn't have a ring.)
>>Cur Lydia nullum anulum habet?
>Ante Medum salutat, Lydia nullum pecunia habet, jam Medus ab Julio omnio pecunia carpit, is pecuniosus et emit anulum et Lydiae illa dat.
You need to a past tense for the first one, nulla pecunia, omniam pecuniam carpit, illud dat
>(Before meeting Medus, Lydia had no money, now that Medus steals all of Julius' money, he's rich, buys a ring and gives it to Lydia.)
>>Estne vacuus sacculus Medi?
>Nunc est.
Non est, nunc = now
>>Quot sesteriis constat anulus gemmatus?
>Anulus gemmatus centum sestertium pretium habet.
Centum sestertiis constat
Pretium centum sestertiorum habet
>>Ad quem digitum anulus convenit?
>In digito quarto digitum convenit, ante illud, Medus ponitur in medio digito sed illud non convenit.
Ad digitum quartum, antea, Medus ponit, sed ad illum
>(It fits in fourth finger, before that, Medus put it on the middle finger but it didn't fit.)

>>20538963
>You need to a past tense for the first one, nulla pecunia, omniam pecuniam carpit, illud dat
I mean illum dat

>>20538963
>In taberna, in....
ah you're right, I made the mistake of thinking of ornamenta instead of taberna and put a neutral hoc when it should have been feminine.
>cum domino...
ah I missed that, of course, cum + abl.
>Ad tabernam
ah and ad + acc. I think I need to write these preposition rules down and stick them on my wall
>Quia pretium...
wait I don't understand "quia illos nimis magnum pretium" >> "quia pretium Illarum" It's 80 F right now I'll have to reread that one later when I can think clearer
>yeah for a few of these I figured I need forms that haven't been introduced yet, I've been avoiding going beyond the bounds of the current chapter because I think it would be cheating somewhat.... need to practice what hte current chapter is teaching or sometihng like that.
>nulla pecunia
aa I was about to write a complaint this but as I was doing so I realized you are right and that 'nulla' is accusative neutral. I had used a masculine 'nullam' by mistake.
>omniam pecuniam carpit.
I'm too overheated to figure this one out, will make a note to read back at it later sorry.
>Illum dat
ah of course I see, because the illum is the pronoun in place of anulum.
>nunc = now
no nono that's the joke lol
>centum sestertiis...
This one looks like I screwed up alot of things too, I'll definitely have to redo these questions later.
>ad digitum
Wouldn't that be "to the fourth finger" instead of "in the fourth finger"?
I don't think I've heard the word antea but dictionary says it's pretty much what I was going for.


Seems like alot of prepositional mistakes and also similiar mistakes with ascribing the wrong forms to the wrong respective words again.

Thanks for giving my post a thorough read as always!
At the very least, while my writing is bad, I seem to be reading the chapters totally fine which is good.

it's here, fratres mei

https://youtu.be/olM1mm66YPw

>>20539236
Roooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

>>20539236
pbuh

>>20539200
>no nono that's the joke lol
I missed it, good one
>Wouldn't that be "to the fourth finger" instead of "in the fourth finger"?
Yes, ad digitum quartum convenit. I just copied the same structure the texts uses. (Ad quem [acc.] digitum anulus convenit?)

How would you translate this sentence?

>Cum civitatibus proximis amicitiam confirmabunt

>>20539517
When/Since they will officially declare peace/ an alliance (confirm friendship) with neighboring states
Really depends on the rest of context for the particulars. Cum serves a lot of purposes.

>>20539578
Cum serves a lot of purposes

>>20539578
There is no context, its an exercise question I was stumped by, was coming at it the wrong way. Thanks, think i've got it now.

>>20539517
They confirmed/reassured their friendship/good relations with cities nearby

>>20539911
I mean when they will confirm
(I confounded -abunt with -abant)

>>20539918
Holy shit I'm retarded
I mean they will confirm... with cities
Cum is a preposition here

What's the name of that thing over e and i in deinde? I hope to find the unicode character, so that I can use it myself.

>>20540015
Inverted breve: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_breve

>>20536724
The answer key is very easy to find online, ie in one of the book sites in the /lit/ sticky. I was going without it for a while but found having the answers much more helpful. What ive heard is youre not even supposed to translate into your native tongue when learning languages so i find withholding it confusing, though i understand keeping students away from cheating

>>20540032
> Combining Double Inverted Breve
specifically. Thanks!

>>20528811
Found a bit from Augustine online:

>Sero te amavi, pulchritudo tam antiqua et tam nova, sero te amavi! et ecce intus eras et ego foris, et ibi te quaerebam, et in ista formosa, quae fecisti, deformis inruebam. mecum eras, et tecum non eram. ea me tenebant longe a te, quae si in te non essent, non essent. vocasti et clamasti et rupisti surditatem meam: coruscasti, splenduisti et fugasti caecitatem meam: fragrasti, et duxi spiritum, et anhelo tibi, gustavi et esurio et sitio, tetigisti me, et exarsi in pacem tuam.

>Late have I loved you, Beauty so ancient and so new, late have I loved you! Lo, you were within, but I outside, seeking there for you, and upon the shapely things you have made I rushed headlong, I, misshapen. You were with me, but I was not with you. They held me back far from you, those things which would have no being were they not in you. You called, shouted, broke through my deafness; you flared, blazed, banished my blindness; you lavished your fragrance, I gasped, and now I pant for you; I tasted you, and I hunger and thirst; you touched me, and I burned for your peace.

>>20540050
>>20540050
>ea me tenebant longe a te, quae si in te non essent, non essent.
I don't get this part and the translation doesn't help.

>>20540350
'a te' is ablative of seperation
those (ea) held me (tenebant) a long way (longe) from you (a te)
quae si in te non essent, non essent
which [things] (referring to ea) if had not been in you (in te; ablative of placement), would not be.

>>20540462
Yes I know that, what I don't understand is the si in te non essent, non essent. I assume it's some sort of play on words based on the polysemy of sum. What are those things that are in Him, and whose existence depend on Him? How is that possible that those things that exist only because of Him, kept Augustine away?

>what I don't understand is the si in te non essent, non essent
>I assume it's some sort of play on words based on the polysemy of sum
lol

>>20540663
Furthermore it is also a conditional which uses the imperfect preterite, which, if I remember correctly, express irreal hypothesis in the present.
I don't get it.

>>20540677
Explain it to me.

I'm going to learn Old Irish. Apparently it's the most brutal IE language and the morphology makes attic Greek seem like a pidgin in comparison. I'm bored of Latin and need a challenge

Just got these, what am I in for?
Any tips before starting?

>>20540794
burn them

>>20540794
grammar translations and not learning latin

>>20540794
>Any tips before starting?
Nobody here actually knows Latin. Don't follow any advice you may get from this thread, not even mine.

>>20540794
Tolle et lege

>>20540785
Really, more brutal than Sanskrit? If I were looking for a challenge, that's the one I would pick, because at least I'll never run out of stuff to read, after putting that much work into learning a language.

>>20540794
Cool! So glad you are learning Latin! Wheelock is good starting point. Try to get as much supplimentary reading as you can. There are cheap paperback copies of readers like Fabulae Faciles, Via Latina, and Easy Latin Stories. You will need a lot of reading practice since Wheelock is a standard grammar primer.

Scribblers, Sculptors, and Scribes will give you some neat inscriptions to read from real Romans. There's a lot of graffiti from Pompeii and shit like that if you are into history. There's a chapter for each Wheelock chapter.

Cassell's is the best affordable dictionary.

Ignore the people who are frothing at the mouth right now. Use whatever you have and study everyday. There is no perfect textbook. This guy is the wisest person in the thread >>20540808

>>20540794
they're good
>>20540806
wrong, they contain lots of (actual classical latin) inpoot

>>20540785
Holy shit anon, i wish you luck. Btw, do you know where I can look up the morphology?

>>20540806
I think grammar is important to know for any language you wish to learn.
>>20540832
Will do!
>>20540902
Thanks for writing that out!
I'll probably try LLPSI before anything else but thanks for the suggestions!

>>20540979
>I think grammar is important to know for any language you wish to learn.
what about ur native language haha

>>20540979
>I'll probably try LLPSI before anything else but thanks for the suggestions!
I would at least do the first 5 chapters in Wheelock first to get your feet wet. You can read them in like 5 minutes each.

>>20540785
Does knowing modern Irish first help at all?

>>20540984
read
>>20528811

>>20540979
Sure, grammar can help to understand, but the most important thing is input. Acquiring a language and learning about a language are not the same thing even if the latter can help with the former in some cases.

>>20540997
>Acquiring a language and learning about a language are not the same thing
My man, people keep saying this and I don't want to start another argument, but this is a copied and pasted quote. People do not buy books like Wheloock to learn "about latin". You know that. Please if you are going to disagree with people that's fine, but don't misrepresent the other side. Nobody is trying to learn Latin by learning about Latin. Using a standardized grammar textbook that's been used for over half a century is not "learning about a language". It's what every classicist that in usa has used since like the 50s. If it was for learning about a language, then it would be used in linguistics departments - which it is not.

>>20540993
お前は一体何を言っている

Should I learn latin or learn a living language first(Russian)? The only languages I know currently is english and spanish, though I already know most of the cryllic alphabet from practice. Was going to stop in favor of latin but honestly mightve underestimated latin a bit so now im second guessing.

>>20541017
>but this is a copied and pasted quote.
and it's true
just look at this poor guy
>>20540678
>>20540663
>>20540350

>>20541017
That's just the thing though, it's not aimed at acquiring the language, it's aimed at acquiring a declarative knowledge of the grammar of Latin that can be used to translate it into English and derive understanding from that translation, not from the Latin text itself.

>Acquiring a language and learning about a language are not the same thing
>learn the way a child learns
>grammar translation method is le BAD
>acquire the language not learn

When people just regurgitate quotes like this from Reddit and youtub videos, they just honestly just have their posts hidden and ignored.

If you want to argue about language acquisition, then at least use your own ideas and if you are going to take someone else's, then at least put them in your own words and pretend it's an original thought.

>>20540984
We learn grammar growing up just by hearing how others speak and copying them.
>>20540987
Yes, I meant that I'll try LLPSI after I've finished most of Wheelock.
>>20540997
I agree with you, but when I was learning German, I found that I could read and understand it good enough just from input of the raw words, but when it came to formulating my own sentences and reading more advanced things, learning the grammar of it was vital for truly knowing the language.

>>20541029
Personally, I would learn the easier language first, and if you already know Spanish, that's Latin, hands down.

>>20541056
But that's the thing- it's not my original thought, but it is what the evidence shows, so we're reminding you of it because you keep acting as if it isn't.

>>20541058
It wouldve been easier to just ask how difficult latin is since thats my real question. I find so many mixed results on latin and how or easy it is so making a choice was hard. Thanks anon

>>20541057
>We learn grammar growing up just by hearing how others speak and copying them.
exactly qed

>>20541033
The explain what it means
>What are those things that are in Him, and whose existence depend on Him? How is that possible that those things that exist only because of Him, kept Augustine away

Wait, you don't know

>>20541056
>If you want to argue about language acquisition, then at least use your own ideas
Why not use someone else's ideas if they are good?

>>20541033
>>20541046
>>20541071
>>20541082
Evidence is not a YouTuber quote. Evidence is you saying it to me in Latin.

Mihi Latine dice. Si non erras, erro.

>>20541085
No, evidence is scientific studies about language acquisition.

>>20541089
Then why you didn't acquired it

>>20541089
Latine loquere, quaeso. Esne territus? Nemo ridebit. Age pleb, exspectamus.

>>20541089
Say it in Latin. Thankfully you didn't learn "about" the language. You "acquired" it. Show us.

>>20541095
Because I have other priorities right now. But I can answer you in one of my other non-native languages. Which would you prefer? Esperanto? Spanish? Japanese?

>>20541102
>Because I have other priorities right now.
KEKUS MAXIMUS
>Esperanto?
Bruh get the fuck out of this thread you faggot.

>>20541073
Growing up surrounded by a language that everyone around you speaks, being able to ask questions to anyone, and having much better capabilities for understanding a language at an early age.
Compared to learning a dead language that nobody speaks, never really able to ask questions about it at all, and already having a fully developed brain that makes it somewhat harder to learn.

I've now realized I have turned the thread into a shit flinging match, for that, I am sorry.

>>20541114
It's just the Esperanto tranny trying to avoid speaking Latin.

>>20541113
Why should I get out of the thread?
>>20541116
Bene, iam latine loquar si quaeris. Quid dicam?

>>20541102

>>20541114
>and having much better capabilities for understanding a language at an early age.
bullshit

>>20541102
Is this guy forreal

>>20541116
>Esperanto tranny
lmao. Is he famous around here?

>>20541124
Cur rides?
>>20541129
Non iocor, quare sic putas?

>>20541128
.

>>20541135
>posting literal blog articles to prove your point
oh no...

>>20541139
I only did the bare minimum by searching that.
If you want to ignore everything that you don't agree with, then go ahead. I don't really care.

pic related

>>20541119
>Bene, iam latine loquar si quaeris. Quid dicam?
Expone utens latino sermone argumenta tua de lingua discenda

>>20541156
yeah i'll help myself and ignore blog posts composed by retarded americans who have no experience acquiring a second language to proficiency thank you

>>20541158
Linguam scire et de lingua scire non idem sunt. Transferrens 'legere' non legere est, ac multo lentior laboriosiorque.

>>20541171
>composed by retarded americans
Who do you think you are quoting about this Nature Method bullshit? This comes from libreral universities in the USA you fucking chimp.

>>20541072
> It wouldve been easier to just ask how difficult latin is since thats my real question.
I know English and some Italian, but I'm not a native speaker. Maybe that's similar to your situation with English and Spanish.

I found Latin's reputation as a hard language to be way overblown. I suspect that most of it stems from the braindead grammar translation method that people were exposed to in school. (You see, I'm in the LLPSI camp.) But the languages I already knew certainly helped, especially when it comes to vocabulary.

For Russian I'd imagine you'd have to start pretty much from scratch. Except for the alphabet, in your case, but that's by far the easiest part of learning a language.

>>20541185
it comes from people who have actually succeeded in language acquisition including myself which is why i know it works

>>20541132
Quid docere vis antequam didiceris.

>>20541179
>Linguam scire et de lingua scire non idem sunt. Transferrens 'legere' non legere est, ac multo lentior laboriosiorque.
eadem sunt, transferens, legere transferendo, lentius, laboriosiusque

I don't know or care about what you're arguing about, but
>>20541119
>loquar
Why use a subjunctive here?
>>20541201
>Quid
You want "Quod" (in the sense of "Because"), otherwise it'd need to be a question.

>>20541274
Volebam "quia"

>>20541279
Id quoque licet.

>>20541293
Etiam

>>20541274
He used Google translate

>>20541102
none of them because im not GAY

>>20541312
None. Both are correct. I wanted to write quia but wrote quid instead. That anon corrected my mistake.

>>20541296
Please explain. What difference does it make? In the "also" sense, they appear identical to me.

>>20541323
>>20541331

>>20541323
Sorry, replied to the wrong post before and deleted it. What I don't understand is the difference between "quoque" and "etiam" for "Id quoque/etiam licet".

>>20541250
Please answer to this. I want to know if I made any mistake while correcting yours. Thanks.

>>20541347
Etiam can be used to answer affirmatively to questions etc
I was agreeing with him

>>20541361
Ah, got it. This almost became disorienting for a moment.

I've only been learning Latin for a month but my MUST CONSOOM instincts are going crazy atm at the thought of buying the oxford latin dictionary
I'm still reading LLPSI and don't even own any Loebs yet

>>20541465
Just pirate everything. Take a look at the folder in OP

>>20541470
Cant wait to stare at a screen all day!

>>20541470
Yeah it's really nice but as I said I'm a consoomer and so I prefer to own physical things that aren't dependent on electricity

I just realized LLPSI is the Latin equivalent of Minna no Nihongo, a shitty but extremely widely used language learning textbook known for being extremely long, slow, and that can only be made use of either in a classroom setting with a teacher who knows the language or using a supplementary grammar reference book and a dictionary, since the textbook itself doesn't explain anything about how the language works and doesn't provide a translation for most of the words that appear in the text.

>>20541192
>I found Latin's reputation as a hard language to be way overblown
Im glad, I didnt want to sound arrogant or misjudge it. Im in the LLPSI camp too so I shouldve figured

>>20541504
But LLPSI is actually good and accessible, if overall inefficient

>>20541135
Kill yourself low effort googler

It's wrong btw

>>20541250
>eadem sunt
Thinking again you were probably right about this one
>A et B idem non sunt
Can someone verify the rest of corrections?

>>20541102
Esperanto tranny doesn't know any other language other than English btw

>>20541504
So Minna no Nihongo inductively teaches you the grammar of Japanese, reinforces that grammar through a lot of comprehensible input and also explicitly teaches you the grammar of Japanese in the marginal notes?
Or is it just a typical textbook written in another language that expects you to have a teacher to guide you along?
If it's just the latter then that approach is fairly standard, for example it's what rivstart does but the difference is that LLPSI can be used alone without a teacher or any other books while these are purely for classroom teaching

>>20541571
You wouldn't know since you are monolingual. You have demonstrated multiple times in this thread that outside of orberg, you have no idea what the inside of a language textbook looks like. As if Wheelock looks any different than the most popular Spanish or French courses that are widely available.

>>20541504
> the textbook itself doesn't explain anything about how the language works
Cur mentiris de libro quem plerique hic legerunt atque istud planum falsum esse sciunt?

>>20541571
>is it just a typical textbook written in another language that expects you to have a teacher to guide you along?
Yes. It's got some pictures illustrating a few nouns and verbs, and also has a few sentences which say something along the lines of "What is the English word for _?", followed by the answer, but it leaves everything else for the student to look up.

>>20541603
I'm not sure who you think I am anon
I provided one example that's popular with people learning Swedish, Rivstart and there are others, for example Grammaire progressive du français which are popular textbooks used for beginners of French who obviously need to be guided through the textbook by their teacher
Also as to your point about how Wheelock isn't fundamentally different from textbooks of Spanish of French all I can say is that I think this approach is inferior to the kind that LLPSI uses regardless of whether a language is living or dead and I think the evidence overwhelmingly proves it

>>20541571
Minna doesn't require a teacher, but it doesn't have LLPSI's extreme unilingual self sufficiency.

Why does the thread always die at this time of day? Are there this few Americans in here?

>>20541653
You keep talking about evidence, but no one in this thread or any other thread has ever shown proficiency in Latin as evidence. That is the best evidence of all and it's also what you don't have.

Oh look, it's the "LLPSI is shit" poster that, for some reason, always ignores Latin replies. I wonder why.

>>20541814
The impoot hero tried to type some Latin and we all saw the results

>>20541807
>but no one in this thread or any other thread has ever shown proficiency in Latin as evidence
/thread

does no one else find grammar in itself interesting? people seem to either ignore it or view it as a neccessary evil

>>20541873
Yes. I don't get why people hate it so much.

>>20541707
>Minna doesn't require a teacher
It requires either a teacher or making use of the complementary explanatory book that is sold separately and may not even be available in the same bookshops.
>>20541814
Vis argumenti non augmentat etjamsi in linguam latinam transferretur.

>>20541807
>>20541862
>>20541870
> but no one in this thread or any other thread has ever shown proficiency in Latin as evidence.
Quomodo vis ut id demonstretur, si responsa Latina manifesto non valeant? Equidem iam Latine scribebam in >>20541610

Desine vitare talia nuntia, ac tandem tuis responsis monstra nobis istam Latinitatem superiorem.

>>20541250
>eadem sunt
I was going for 'they are not the same (singular) thing' or something to that effect, is that wrong?
>transferens
Yeah, that's just a misspelling thanks.
>legere transferendo
Yeah I see why that would be wrong.
>lentius, laboriosiusque
Wait, it would be neuter? Do infinitives always take neuter agreement? I must have missed that.
>>20541250
>Why use a subjunctive here?
"I shall speak Latin/let me speak Latin". I don't know, maybe that's a calque from Esperanto.

>>20541481
Yeah, I find that with digital books it's harder to focus on them because it takes mental effort to force yourself not to tab away to something else. That's why I like reading on paper.

>>20541873
Well stephen krashen loves grammar and he did his phd in it afaik but he just doesn't think studying grammar is how people acquire languages (monitor hypothesis) and afaik he doesn't think it's useful to study
I think grammar is interesting personally, I'm considering learning Turkish because I'm interested in agglutinative languages

>>20541537
I'm fluent in Esperanto and conversational in Spanish and Japanese.

>>20541933
>(((stephen krashen}))

>>20541807
Personal anecdotal evidence and scientific evidence are not the same thing. The latter I've shown plenty of.

>>20541941
>>>/pol/

>>20541941
Yeah ok, that's it I'm leaving this shit thread
Fucking bunch of morons

>>20541937
ラテン語を学べ

>>20541957
今夏が忙しいから今は学んでいないけどきっと学ぶつもりわよ。

If you're gonna write in Japanese, why don't you two make use of classical Japanese grammar and historical kana usage, so as to least fit together with this thread's theme?

>>20541913
> no one in this thread or any other thread has ever shown proficiency in Latin as evidence
>Vis argumenti non augmentat etjamsi in linguam latinam transferretur.
???

>>20541925
> Wait, it would be neuter?
I'd say neuter is the default choice in Latin.

>>20541974
I can do 漢文訓読体:
今夏の忙しきを以て學ばざるとは雖も、將來必ず學ばむ。

Fīlum novum:
>>20542003
>>20542003
>>20542003
>>20542003

>>20540663

>>20541948
>Noooooo not my hecking kikerinooooossss noooo

>>20541504
>I just realized LLPSI is the Latin equivalent of Minna no Nihongo
stopped reading there since you don't know what you're talking about