/lit/ - Literature

Sorry I bungled the thread. I am never doing this again.

>>20523130
>What's your MC's story goal?
At the start MC1 wants to save MC2's soul while MC2 wants to make a big, hard-hitting documentary and become a better provider for his family.
A paradigm shift occurs for both.

>>20523164
Is saving souls something that has a concrete reality in your story, or is it like real life, where the existence of souls is open to debate?

>>20523171
It's called "Christianity". I know it's not exactly well-known to most people but it's a relatively old religion.

>>20523175
Yes, I gathered. But there's realistic stories where Christians trying to save your soul are just stroking their own egos and trying to get others to play along with their delusions, and then there's fictional stories where God exists and Christianity isn't just a bunch of hokey nonsense dreamed up by old Jewish farm-owners who wanted to control who their daughters fucked.

>>20523186
Oof. Fedora tipping of this level hasn't been popular since 2008.
Has it ever occurred to you that maybe a person who genuinely believes in God would actually want to save someone out of benevolence rather than as ego trip? And I say this as a life-long atheist.

>Day one of editing.
Holy fuck its like i'm ready some ESL tier shit.
On the bright side i can see how far my writing has come.

>>20522609
Before, I didn't understand people who say they always skip the prologue in web novels until I tried to read this. It's just cliche after cliche, and gives you nothing the synopsis didn't already convey. You could cut the whole thing and it would only improve things.

The story itself feels rather rushed and detached, like it's some average joe telling it to an NBC reporter or something well after the fact. Which could work, if it was an intentional approach. As is, it didn't really hold my interest. An apocalyptic alien invasion should be more thrilling than this.

>>20523196
>Has it ever occurred to you that maybe a person who genuinely believes in God would actually want to save someone out of benevolence rather than as ego trip?
Sure, but lots of people are delusional about what is actually motivating them. Nobody believes in God for rational reasons. It's always about fear, ego, and self-righteousness. The only people who have real faith are the insane.

>>20523235
Jesus, did a priest rape you in the ass when you were a choir boy? Or was it a religious uncle?

>>20523130
To make his father and brother proud, but ends up accomplishing the exact opposite of that.

>>20523254
Nope. I just wasn't raised religious. Spent a lot of time trying to figure out why people believe in one religion over others when there isn't a shred of proof that any of them are special in any way.

Eventually, you realize it's just a mix of childhood indoctrination, fear, ego, self-righteousness and intellectual laziness.

Mordecai started mumbling his soothing video game mantras to himself:

"(After that battle, I earned fifteen experience points. Two thirds of my points will be auto-assigned by the Arktika-System, distributing them equally between the skills I used in that particular battle. That means ten points will be split between 'bludgeoning weapons', 'general melee', 'bats&batons', 'footwork', 'general defense', 'parrying', 'armor', and 'pain resistance'.)

"(Hmm. My footwork skill is dangerously low. It should really be higher. I think I'll use one of my fate-flip tokens to randomize the point spread. Instead of being divided up evenly, the experience points will be assigned to skills randomly. Because the Fate-Flipper ignores the general level skills, this will give a better chance for me to level up footwork!)

"(Due to the 'Focused Polymath' talent, one third of all xp are assigned to my 'Christmas Stocking'. I can distribute these points however I choose. I have five points left. Here's where it gets tricky...)

"(The obvious answer would be to level up my core-stats, like strength or suaveness. But after level three, core-stats become a trap option. They suffer from serious diminishing returns. Buff items for core-stats are cheap and plentiful. Later on, when core-stats become a prereq for double-advanced talents, we can look into raising them.)

"(I'm going to put at least two points into 'Life's Punching Bag' talent. Since it's an inverted talent, that lowers it from level four to level three. Now all skills and satellite-stats that have the 'resistance' keyword in their descriptions will get a bonus. For every three points I spend, I will get four points worth of benefit. However, that bonus only counts when I do the 'Open Your Presents' event and actually consume the XP. So the best thing to do is always increase those skills and sat-stats in multiples of three for max efficiency.)

"(That won't help for this event, because I can't benefit from a talent until after I've leveled it up – or down in this case, ha ha. My remaining three points don't need to be spent on resistance abilities. )

"(I earned two nice-tokens after stopping the two demonic players. I'll use both of them along with two XP to increase my 'Team Member' rank. Right now, I'm still ranked 'Last Picked', but with three tokens and three points I can increase it to 'Team Player', which will grant a 10% bonus to all combat XP gained while in a party and a 20% increase to healing rate. Heck, maybe I'll level up to 'MVP' at this rate.)

"(Finally, with my last remaining experience point, I'll buy one more cookie to put on 'Santa's Plate of Cookies'. I still have no idea what that does, but since I have the free 'Cookies&Milk' quintuple-advanced talent, I know that its effects are increased by a multiple of five. Here's praying that the points I've invested in this mystery mechanic pay off in the long run.)"

He hugged his legs, rocking back and forth.

>>20523130
>What's your MC's story goal?
To survive in the wilderness as an attempt to fulfill that gnawing survival autism that lurks deep in his soul. Ends up becoming a folk legend after locals from another village catch the MC building a fish pond.

>>20520685
In case anyone was wondering, I did some more digging, and I found out that the detective would NOT need a subpoena, because call logs are NOT considered private. See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_v._Maryland

>>20523130
I wish I was at home writing right now

>>20523284
I'll pray for you.

>>20523130
>What's your MC's story goal?
To run his country while trying to not get killed.

weedanon needs to take his meds

You guys writing a book for months, editing for what feels like ages, then thinking you’re above marketing and throwing your book into the void and getting angry it only sold 2 copies in a month.

>>20523138
You did much better than the pseuding vandals.
I'm sure you'll do better next time!

>>20523210
Hopefully I avoided that trap in my own:
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/54832/leave-bad-enough-alone

>>20523175
You sound like a stuck up, arrogant faggot. Your "book" sounds gay as fuck too.

>>20523960
Having fead first 5 paragraphs my 2 cents are - lack of description offering context where they are and who both characters are, too many dialogue tags overall and too many of them actions or unusual (trilling, coyly, related, eyes light up, demurely) which creates the impression they are animating a mile a minute like bugs bunny.

I liked the humor and content of the dialogue itself.

I posted a few days ago about trying to write a man who has a lot of issues regarding confidence and anxiety topped with a tinge of self hatered. He is a compulsive drinker since alcohol is the only thing allowing him to function in an environment that demands a lot of confidence and fearlessness. All of his friends and family have no clue that he drinks, and he is pretty much never sober. During rare moments when he is alone, he loses his drunk confidence and ends up feeling like a fraud and failiure. Pic related is a snippet from a fairly early chapter where he and his friends give a sendoff to their fourth, who dies at the start of the book. This little monologue is him talking to his recently departed friend, lamenting that he has to carry that torch.This is the first time he's truly alone, and the first time he has to reflect on what has happened, and what is to come.

For some context, they're all in the same guild / organization, and the dead man was his captain. He sacrifices himself to save the Drunk Man, who gets knocked out and doesn't remember much of what happened.And with his captain dead, he has to carry on the torch and take his place.

I'm mostly worried about it beign too melodramatic or not punchy enough. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

How do you make despair inducing dialogue? For example; I have a character shackled to an abandoned prison cell and is slowly going insane. There's nobody else around and her only hope of escape is the shackles turning to brittle rust in a hundred years or so.
So far I've got wildly (but still fairly realistic) rotations of emotions. Laughing one minute, screaming at somebody who isn't even there, crying the next. It's all just coming across a little cringe.
inb4 "post it", no but if it helps I'm getting a VA to act it.

>>20523989
Fair, mostly.
Their location is revealed after the first dozen short paragraphs, right after one of them says "I can't believe it's come to this."

>>20523130
>MC's story goal?
In first book: to remain independent in the face of paradise.
Next story: to find love because his current relationship is dysfunctional.
Not based on mydiarydesu by the way.

You will never be a real writer. You have no talent, you have no insight, you have no focus. You are a delusional man twisted by vanity and self-deceit into a crude mockery of literary potential.

All the “validation” you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back people mock you. Your parents are disgusted and ashamed of you, your “friends” laugh at your awkward "wit" behind closed doors.

Audiences are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of literary analysis have allowed readers to sniff out pseuds with incredible efficiency. Even hacks who “sell” seem uncanny and unnatural to a reader. Your sentence structure is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get a few people to open your KDP sample, they’ll turn tail and bolt the second they get a glimpse of your banal, droll prologue.

You will never be happy. You wrench out a fake smile every single morning and tell yourself it’s going to be ok, but deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight.

Eventually it’ll be too much to bear - you’ll buy a rope, tie a noose, put it around your neck, and pull a DFW, still mistakenly hoping until the last second that your suicide will lend a sense of depth to your work. It won't. Your parents will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to think up compliments for your latest short story. They’ll bury you with a headstone marked with your birth name, and no passerby for the rest of eternity will ever know that you used to refer to yourself with two first initials. Your body will decay and go back to the dust, and all that will remain of your legacy is a selfpub that is unmistakably mediocre.

This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.

>>20524180
Your mum gay

>>20524147
I think stream of consciousness, free indirect discourse, and appropriate pacing would help you best here. You want to set the pace of your writing and sentences to match the feel of despair in your character's mind as they cycle through different emotions. Maybe even time, too. You can get crazy experimental with this and eschew punctuation, spelling, and grammar if you're good enough. Then it will imitate insanity. Then you can bring things back in one at a time to show her coming back under control.
>>20524180
That's enough out of you. Go write.

>>20524050
Without context I liked it. I don’t think it's melodramatic, maybe he might think these things instead of saying them out loud, but you're more familiar with the character in that regard. I don’t think these sorts of scenes should be punchy, but maybe they follow something punchy. It's not only reflection by the character but a moment of rest for the reader.

>>20524196
Very very well put anon. Sorry I don't really have much else to say besides that but I've unironically screenshotted your post so I can glance whenever things get dicey. Thanks again.

>>20524050
Is all that alliteration on purpose?

>>20524180
>Thousands of years of literary analysis have allowed readers to sniff out pseuds with incredible efficiency.
This part is out of place. You can call (me) shit, but claiming that readers are good at detecting pseuds is clearly false. It weakens your rant.

It might be better to say they'll read garbage, but never (your) garbage.

Nobody ever reads my garbage.

>>20524238
Thanks! And yeah, I've considered it having it be inner monologue, but I thought it would be a bit more emotional to have him spill his guts out loud, since he can never do that in the company of others.

>>20524298
Nope, that's just the way I write. Only just noticed how much of it I have after reading your comment. Do you think it's bad to have a lot of alliteration?

>>20523130
>What's your MC's story goal?
To gain entrance to the equivalent of valhala/elysium
He tells stories from his life to ancient heroes and soldiers older than him to convince them he is worthy to gain entrance
He talks about voyages into the unknown, escape from slavery/a fighting pit, quest for vengeance against the one who stranded him on an island, defeating an evil subterrainian creature that is worshipped by islanders and they sacrifice children too, etc

My hope is in doing so it'll prevent things from being too samey and enable me to change locations/side characters on a whim as well as sticking with short stories (something I have more experience with) to form a work the length of a novel, rather than a singular story of that length which is harder. It also enables me to stop and start again pretty much whenever I want without needing to refresh myself on where I was

>>20523130
>What's your MC's story goal?
To find who is kidnapping all her colleagues

>>20524364
>Nope, that's just the way I write. Only just noticed how much of it I have after reading your comment. Do you think it's bad to have a lot of alliteration?
It's annoying to anyone who isn't a medieval saxon.

Why does everyone write like they're trying to be in the 1200's? It's 2022, write like it.

>>20524629
Write like people speak today? Not a chance. Really, you want to be writing like it's the 1940s, with a dash of contemporary language.

>>20524636
Why you being a Busta? Finna get the big bux you know what I'm saying? Yes just like that be dabbing on the cash flow money yeah you know? Bitches ain't got these trix and Netflix up the this mind right here. I'll be enlightened with my homes as we finesse the market with our sweet stock bids you know?

>>20524636
"Check out the tiddies on that anime chick. God damn 2D is greater than 3D."
"I see you too are a man of culture."

>>20524659
>>20524689
LMAO my brother in christ no cap bruh fr fr I'm dead

>>20523130
Survive and find her husband. MC is a trophy wife who dies and wakes up in a freezing, apocalyptic hell where everything wants to eat/kill/molest her.

>someone told me they've give me some money if I had a patreon
Feels good man I don't have a patreon and don't really want to make one

>>20524617
Duly noted. I'll try to cut back on it a bit then. Was recently re-reading LotR, guess I got Tolkein on the mind. Anything else you think could use improvement?

>>20523945
You do realize this person is intentionally vandalizing this thread right? You don't fuck up the name and header twice.

>never been to a church
>Have a scene where someone is listening to a sermon
Will I get kicked out of I go attend a sermon to do research? Or can I just watch YouTube videos?

>>20523799
which ones. I went outside and touched grass and my goats, how are you doing today anon, what are you doing to improve yourself? any good writings lately?

Just checking business emails. I selected what is the best "blurb" of what this new flow is.

He motions his hand to turn on the flasher. The bimetallic clips clacking with each pulse to the light, he returns his focus to the road, trying to remember that he needed to go wide in the van on J.C.B. road coming south-side. The washed-out shoulder always been an issue, Lazy County planner he thought, for all it would take is a second drain path, some better drain medium, and some Roses for erosion control.

The ball joint giving way more on this angled curved hairpin turn, rattling louder then the solenoid, The firewall having lost it adhesive, the mildew assaulting the VOC as well as his nose. The engine revving excessively due to poor needle jetting on the carbs, again something else to add to the pile.

“Shit in one hand, and put wishes in the other.” He thought. After the death wobble cease, he sighed I relief, “Just a little longer, we’ll both get our rest then.” He said to the van, patting what was left of the dislodged dash. As if it was a person, for him it was. It had been the thing to carry him. The mountain life had not been kind, but it was rewarding.

The transmission catching the clutch leaving second gear like clockwork, “shaken, Not stirred.”, straightening out to start to coast, both in his mind and driving. Pushing the memories of the wreck he had with his brother on the very road, flashes of the night come into focus, the frisson skipping down his spine.

lunch, then back to writing till I crash.

>>20523671
yahweh, the god of abraham, obviously isn't god. the idea that the creator of the universe would be such a petty, revolting little pissant diety is an insult to everything. from requiring a flesh sacrifice of its worshipers and their slaves, to having a chosen people and then deciding midway through that they're no longer the chosen people anymore - nevermind the implicit insanity of the creator of everything having a chosen people in the first place, what this group of people over here is less the creation of the creator of everything than this one over here? stupid. then there's the creator being jealous of it's own creations. only a yid would come up with that kind of small minded god

is there any interesting list of motivations and traumas one could use to get some ideas and block out new characters?

>>20524937
living life unironically, I draw most of my inspiration from personal events of myself and others. Itry to capture a real "grit" of life type thing. how well I achieve it is to be discussed.

>>20524929
as much as I love philosophy/religious antics, I do wanna pose a question, what about people who are pantheistic but accept science, and that religion for them is the perception of reality we lack.

>>20524937
Trying to find something edible in England.

>>20524152
You might want to make it the first thing instead. When descriptions aren't given, I have to imagine the environment to make sense of the scene. And then, when you deign to give the setting a dozen paragraphs later, I have to tear down the house I've built and replace it, and it's annoying and takes me out of the scene. Then I have to create placeholder people too for those faceless dialogue tags, and keep replacing them when new clues to their vague identities trickle in. And then I'm out, because the dark tower of dialogue tags is more cumbersome than it's interesting

>>20524951
hah, well i do like the idea of someone trying to find something to eat where they only serve slop. i think that could work as a tertiary character for the story i am writing
>>20524947
you're right i just need to sit down and think about the people i've met and the things i've done i suppose

>>20524965
Ignore that anon and head north up to Scotland if its bad food you're after

>>20524937
Trauma is cringe. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/01/03/the-case-against-the-trauma-plot

You'll have better luck thinking about your own motivations and desires or observing them in people around you. A good way to think about it is structure plot around a tangible motivation that's really about something else.

A classic example is Sherman Alexie's "What You Pawn I Will Redeem" wherein the quest to reclaim the headdress is motivating the action on a concrete scale, but the desire to have the headdress stands in for x,y,z complicated, unstated emotional needs.

>>20524865
You really can't go wrong describing a sermon because no two preachers are the same, and they run the full gamut from a calm, reasonable discussion of a moral theme to lunatic screaming and rending one's own clothes.

I grew up Catholic, and the priest at our church always gave these very calm, rational lectures on some moral point in the Bible, which he always tied into current events and liberal themes like tolerance and acceptance. Everyone would sit quietly and listen, very attentive. It would usually last less than 15 minutes (not counting Mass itself, of course) and leave you with something to think about.

One summer, when I was 13, I stayed with some of my dad's relatives in Texas -- Baptists, not Catholics -- and went to church with them. It was sweltering hot and half the people were passed out in the pews. The preacher was literally screaming and frothing at the mouth, ranting about MTV and how it was THE DEVIL. Guy was like "everything invented after I was born is Satan's handiwork!" He was in an absolute rage and it was, honestly, a little terrifying. Dude was completely unhinged and legit sounded like an escape mental patient.

And the congregation? Like I said, half of them were asleep, the other half looked bored out of their mind, and not one person was actually paying attention to this screaming loon.

I still to this day do not understand why anyone would show up for church when chuch is like that. I mean, Mass is kinda boring and there's a reason I only go twice a year now, but it was at least relaxing and felt like a spiritual experience, like you were in a house of worship. That Bapist sermon, fuck, I have no idea what that was. Just batshit insanity and a room full of people who do it because their neighbors will tsk tsk if they don't. But I sure as hell didn't get any sense of God being in that church, just crackpot lunacy.

>>20524970
ignore this anon, shepherd die is god tier and a French Frog is behind this shit post.

>>20525000
Mate I'm a bong, I love our food but if any country is taking the heat for the shite stuff its got to be Scotland not England

>>20524937
there's a whole book
"The Emotion Thesaurus"
Puglusi and Ackerman

they also have other simular books

>>20524947
>what about people who are pantheistic but accept science
what does that even mean? they accept the iterative process of the scientific method but they believe in a whole smorgasbord of invisible gods to explain things that can't readily be explained given our inherent limitations as humans, i.e. what is the great uncaused cause. the idea that god(s) exist I don't find impossible, it may even be likely, but the idea that they are singularly interested in humans and human events is solipsism of the highest order.

>>20524937
>>20525028
Right author, wrong book. "The Emotion Thesaurus" is extremely useful if you're looking for ways to show emotion rather than tell (I reference it constantly, one of the best purchases I have ever made), but if you're looking for character motivations and trauma, you want "The Emotional Wound Thesaurus,"" which is full of clear examples of how to show a character's emotional scars, and also what kinds of scars different traumas leave.

>>20525023
>Mate I'm a bong,
Explains why your carb hole is so large
I only spent a fortnite in London, six months in north France, and a hot minute on the isles.
I'll deffer to your judgement.

>>20525032

pantheistic = everything is god, you me, and even my poop is god.
best way I can explain, the think god was a single point in space before it started(universe), then god wants to know more and understand life and other concepts, he was all powerful but unable to know, cause how does one have free will exist if god is all knowing and all powerful.

so god made with all his power(this is where Im lost but metaphorically I follow) made something he couldn't stop. i.e unstoppable force meats object type thing i guess. thus the big bang happened and the universe started. that's how they perceive we can see reality and the perception of possibly having free will.

The conclusion I follow, is they feel that god is everything is expression of the universe, and to better understand the perceptions of reality is to love god and ones self. In a way to set moral guidelines base in science as post of just trying to be a decent human but allow stuff to happen so they can improve life for all and god.

>>20524816
https://www.subscribestar.com/

>>20525056
>everything is god, you me, and even my poop is god
then there's no reason venerate or change your behavior for, or cater to, or even think about "god" god simply is
>In a way to set moral guidelines base in science
>base in science
what does this even mean. are you talking about scientific method cataloging cause and effect?
>be a decent human but allow stuff to happen so they can improve life for all and god
this would be solipsism. if god is everything there's nothing you can do to "improve" life for all and god. simply focus on being for yourself and your descendants. god helps those who help themselves.

>>20525087
Please stop giving the tripfag attention

>>20524929
Thus the appeal of Gnosticism

>>20525093
dang, sorry, didn't even realize we'd gained a tripfag. I guess /wg/ is going places, going somewhere, at least.

>>20525087
forgive me as i only have passing affinity for the subject, and only spoken to people I've met in person. Science to them(the followers/believers) is the way to do things and progress, following the scientific method as the true way. That it is equal, repeatable, and provable to our current perception of understanding this shared reality.

That it only fair this way to do so, but instead of devolving into a pure science only, we are carbon flesh cells nothing matters type thinking, and with the problem of other minds still existing, throwing a wrench in the efficacy/philosophic notion of certainty. They choose to better themselves and others as god, which should be respected (not that it to not be used, but used in the most efficient manner possible)because all of reality, matter, sub atomic, space, etc is god in a way, as everything is energy and matter which can be converted but never destroyed or lost.

If I was to say with any real understanding, its Ex-christians redefining new faith in science with a new moral compass.if it is solipsism in its final form, is that a bad thing looking at it in a strict "how they function with others" sense in term of community/society. I am not a fan of any form solipsistic school of thought, more over the self catering types.

>>20525123
>>20525093
I just use it so I can follow my posts more easily, not here to hock shit, cry for things, or need validation.

I suck as a writer, and I am trying put effort in to improve a craft. If it fails, so be it.

If it affect your psyche that bad, i'll be more then glad to write a technical guide showing you have to filter with 4chanX add-on.

>>20525028
>The Emotion Thesaurus
Cheers for that, looks super solid.

>>20525087
forgive me as i only have passing affinity for the subject, and only spoken to people I've met in person. Science to them(the followers/believers) is the way to do things and progress, following the scientific method as the true way. That it is equal, repeatable, and provable to our current perception of understanding this shared reality.

That it only fair this way to do so, but instead of devolving into a pure science only, we are carbon flesh cells nothing matters type thinking, and with the problem of other minds still existing, throwing a wrench in the efficacy/philosophic notion of certainty. They choose to better themselves and others as god, which should be respected (not that it to not be used, but used in the most efficient manner possible)because all of reality, matter, sub atomic, space, etc is god in a way, as everything is energy and matter which can be converted but never destroyed or lost.

If I was to say with any real understanding, its Ex-christians redefining new faith in science with a new moral compass.if it is solipsism in its final form, is that a bad thing looking at it in a strict "how they function with others" sense in term of community/society. I am not a fan of any form solipsistic school of thought, more over the self catering types.

>>20525123
>>20525093
I just use it so I can follow my posts more easily, not here to hock shit, cry for things, or need validation.

I suck as a writer, and I am trying put effort in to improve a craft. If it fails, so be it.

If it affect your psyche that bad, I would be more then glad to write a technical guide showing you how to filter with 4chanX add-on. What browser do you use?

>>20525187
Too much blog posting. Just post your story, or read someone else's and shit on it.

>>20525204
First week here, currently reading Anon deprived sitcom. I'll tune the SOC style dowm.

post something and i'll read it. Going back to writing.

I have a question, I'm "designing" a novel not writing it, basically i keep writing notes of how some locations look and how some scenes will play out. Is that a valid approach?

>>20525396
https://github.com/skitsanos/mindtree
havnt use this one, this is an example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_concept-_and_mind-mapping_software

I use things like mind trees when I am working on technical projects.

>>20525396
Honestly, no. You need to stop doing that shit and just write your story. Nobody who has ever written anything good has done it like that. You're treating it like you're designing a machine or something, and best case scenario, you'll get a boring, lifeless, machine-like novel. In other words, this:
>>20525421
>working on technical projects

Except a novel is not a technical project.

What most likely will happen though is you'll just end up with a bunch of notes and you'll never get around to writing the book. You need to get out of your own way and just write it. There's probably a lot of fear behind the approach you're taking, whether you realize it or not. If you are writing an essay or a nonfiction work, do prewriting. If you're writing fiction, prewriting is bullshit and it will kill your creativity.

>>20525396
I believe the term you're looking for is "outlining," but the fact that you don't know that does not bode well for your chances of success.

>>20525396
It's valid so long as it's a means to an end, as long as it gets you writing there's nothing inherently wrong with pre planning. Just be careful to not fall into the pitfall of trying to overadhere to your plans when you actually get to writing. Use what you 'design' as an outline, and let all the peices fall into place as the story comes together would be my advice.

>>20525396
listen to these podcasts

https://writingexcuses.com/category/season/season-10/

Sigh. I'm supposed to be working on my novel. I have at least another 50k to write on it. So what do I today? Do I write chapter 6? No? At least edit the previous chapters, right? No.

No, today I wrote 3000 words about a posh rich girl being raped by a gang of orcs. Why? Because I have issues. Serious issues.

Example of how I write shit, obviously do it on physical paper but this mspaint is just an example, on paper I write in my native language the exact scene of a movie or a game that I think of when thinking of the scene i'm writing.
>>20525435
I think I misspoke, What I meant is that I already have certain concepts and locations and organizations in the setting, and plan to connect them together because I want to write about those organizations and concepts. DESU I feel like the character interactions are secondary for me, I just really like worldbuilding.
>>20525421
Don't think that will help me, but could be neat to use to type notes in an ordered manner.
>>20525500
I'm not a native English speaker but I read more novels in English than my native language lol, also this work isn't really meant to succeed I just really enjoy worldbuilding and creating weird encounters/scenes
>>20525501
>>20525540
thanks

>>20525542
Are you selling your orc shit?

Was banned from 4chan for a three days. Best thing that ever happened to me. Wrote the first two chapters of my story in that time.

Here's chapter 1 + 2. I won't spoil what type of romance it is, but it should be obvious by chapter 2. Any feedback would be amazing. Thank you Pseuds.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/19DYZCLv2twAHGTw03CBsoUzXziQYJ9r-445VCPfTOt8/edit?usp=sharing

>reading back covers of contemporary fiction that comes out this year
>discover nature and the self
>learn what it means to be a woman
>survive
>see how far love can go
>our past influences our present

>>20525435
My mind is so spastic and visual I find it enhances. I only attempt to share tool with my fellow man to help.

what helps me, might not help others.

I say technical cause that's what professionally I have been paid to do in the past when running machines.

I find things are a gradient, not set in stone, but to each their own.

>>20525584
No. Should I? Is there actually a place where I can sell erotica featuring graphic rape scenes? Because I could churn this shit out all day.

>>20525580
>I feel like the character interactions are secondary for me, I just really like worldbuilding.
That's a valid way to feel, but it's not a valid way to write a novel if you want more than two people to read it. If you don't care about people reading what you write that's fine too, do whatever you want. But then why bother asking for validation.

I'm going to finish my next novels first draft tonight.

Maybe this is a stupid question but how edgy can you get on Royal Road before getting nuked?
I just came up with an idea for an isekai story in dream and after brainstorming for a bit, some of the elements that could have some importance in the plot would be
>human cattle
>slavery
>jokes about ultra orthoodox jewish culture and hood culture
>forced sex-reassignments
>animal on human violence
>prostitution
>classism
>fantasy racism
>general dehumanization

None of this would actually be to "stigmatize" any of these so called "groups of people" since some of the protagonists would actually be from these groups and whatever stigmatization that would happen would be inflicted by the story's antagonists, i.e. the bad guys, hence framed as bad but I have no idea how nuanced their jannies' thinking is.

>>20525704
Honestly you could probably get away with all of these if you actually tag it appropriately and don't make it super obvious author tract. I have my main characters calling enemy not-chinamen zipperheads and bugmen and the first villain of my third book is a pedo slaver rapist, no problems so far.

When editing a first draft, did you write individual scenes from the beginning to the end of the story, or did you just write out a whole story then edited it?

>>20525740
Just write it.

my two rules.
1.how long? as long as it needs to be.
2. Write it once, then rewrite it in half, and then again, with saying the same thing each time.

>>20525740
I try and write it beginning to end. I've had ideas for later scenes I've jotted down - and I've ended up using parts of them - but they never survive entering intact. The closest I've ever gotten to is ending chapter or two early because I know what the next chapter is going to be and I need to start it right then.

I published my book in February last year. I learned a lot, but I'm wondering if I would be better off going directly to the smaller publishers than trying to do all this myself. It's obvious I have no idea how to market and get people to read my stuff.
I've entered a lot of book awards (haven't won anything), self publishers review award, discovery award, writers digest, etc. What I've done is look at the winners and find their publishers. However, does anyone know where I could find a comprehensive list of good small publishers? I've seen a lot of hybrid publishers and I'm very skeptical of them. They seem to just be the next generation of vanity publishers.

https://litter.catbox.moe/hcqj59.pdf

I need help with this chapter. Something doesn't feel right, the message of individualism doesn't seem to be clear. Any suggestions?

>>20525989
>https://litter.catbox.moe/hcqj59.pdf
now anon, I am a funding philosophy cunt and I have no issue with the use of nigger. I was born in the deep south.

Fucking use it with class, sure, lower class white trash use it in slang, I need you to be fucking decaprio and tell how how this is the finest nigger i'm buying with class.

>san fran
I swear to fucking all that is unholy in Nietzsche soul, if this at any point says San fran is Norcal, its trash.

If this is state of Jefferson movement coming to the city, 100% more believable. If I wanted trump dribble i'll turn on fox news.

>>20525989
>https://litter.catbox.moe/hcqj59.pdf
now anon, I am a philosophy cunt lover and I have no issue with the use of nigger. I was born in the deep south.

Fucking use it with class, sure, lower class white trash use it in slang, I need you to be fucking decaprio and tell how how this is the finest nigger i'm buying with class.

>san fran
I swear to fucking all that is unholy in Nietzsche soul, if this at any point says San fran is Norcal, its trash.

If this is state of Jefferson movement coming to the city, 100% more believable. If I wanted trump dribble i'll turn on fox news.

This reddit spacing retard almost makes me wish our pseud would return.

>>20526048
>going hard R in next novel maybe even a couple times
I know it's common in Grit Lit but I still gonna have to work up some nerve to submit it. I dont want to argue with an editor about it.

>>20525889
"Absolute Write Water Cooler" is a forum for writers. It's left wing a.f.
however, they have a sub forum where they discuss whether or not agents and publishers are legit
i definitely wouldn't give any money to an agent or a publisher
the money always flows to the writer

Wtf is RC Waldun’s accent? It’s so annoying. Also, what kind of a fucking name is RC Waldun?
Shut the fuck up you gook, you’re Ching Chong Bing Bong Ling Long Lee now slant eye.

>>20525588

This place fucking blows. I posted my story for critique and not a single person read it or replied. No feedback whatsoever.

>>20526048
I have no idea what you're talking about.

>>20526237
They probably all fell asleep trying to read it. Give them a few hours to wake up.

>>20526282
How can you say its boring if you didn't fucking read it you pseudoliterate fuck

>>20526286
Please get banned again.

>>20526237
I'm reading it now anon, but it's late so I probably won't post any feedback until tomorrow.

>>20523130
Having a hard time deciding which attributes to use in my litrpg and how the fuck they should affect Health, Mana, and Stamina. What are some suggestions I should listen to?

Have any anon from outside the us tried to trad pub with american companies? Should I try?

>>20526348
What's the harm in trying anon?

>>20525588
I read this in a little over 5 minutes. It's Okay but I don't really get it. I think the scenes go by really fast, I wouldnt even call them chapters. Maybe its just me being used to narrative heavy stories. Some of the situations like Estelle grabbing the guy and muttering at him all drunk, and the film club thing are funny just not that much presently. You should capitalize French, right? I see some people not do this for languages and nationalities, even Nesmer did that.

>>20525717
Thanks, anon.
I have this weird trait where I'll insult and libel anyone when talking with friends but get very empathetic when I have to tell a story, so I doubt I'll end up going full /pol/ here.

I'll just have to check those tags very carefully.

>>20526237
Okay I just took a look at the first page.
It's good that you at least opened with a paragraph that provides the setting instead of trying to open with some clever bullshit. I don't particularly like the first sentence. I would say avoid "as" sentences if you can. Make each sentence focus on one thing or detail. Also, just looking at the first page, I think the problem is that I'm not getting a clear sense of POV. I'm assuming Estelle is the POV character for this chapter. (I know it's in 3rd person, but you still need a POV character. I don't care about omniscient. That's shit is bullshit). A quick fix for this is to put her in there at the end of the first paragraph. But I think you need more than that honestly.

Also
>It was on this night at a certain penthouse that several big shots had gathered.
A certain penthouse? Seriously? This is lazy as fuck.

The thing you should do is take 200-400 words, before any of the dialogue starts, and just write about the setting through Estelle's eyes, give her opinions about the surroundings, hint at something from her past (the movie deal) and go from there. You already have a lot of these elements there, but it feels like you're rushing. Take your time with the opening, and do the work of getting the reader inside Estelle's head, then go from there.

>>20526354
I'm afraid they will steal my work because I can't do anything to them.

>>20526348
There's no rule against it. Some American authors start with British publishers and they still go best seller. Whoever picks you up, but do make sure you get a good contract. Agents are often worth the money because they will usually work out a good contract for you, midsize or smaller pubs might screw you if you dont know legalese.

What makes a story talked about? What generates discussion?

Stuff like
>what was the character/writer thinking
>who was in the wrong here
>who should've the character ended up with
>theories
etc

>>20526355
>>20526362
Alright, thank you anons, I will go back and add more details to the first chapter from her POV

>>20526363
You could always track em down and rape em

>>20526376
I live in bad and poor third world country. They can screw me over and I would be happy making anything if they pay in dollars.

>>20526385
I don't have money to travel to america if they even allow me to enter.

Thoughts on posting Romance on Wattpad?
I could post it on Royal Road too, but judging from the demographic, I would need an anime cover with a big tiddie lady next to the main dude.

>>20526431
Post on wattpad, royalroad and other places too. Wattpad search is horrible and won't help people find out your novel so post it everywhere and shill the wattpad.

>>20526237
oh fuck off, nobody really reading my story either, save one guy, and I have no idea what he's talking about, or what critique he's having.
>>20525989

I hope this is the right thread to ask...

So I have been browsing content on royalroad and it seems almost every fantasy story set in medieval fantasy world has characters speaking like edgy american teens in disgusting current year americanisms. What gives? Is it due to modern audiences not being able to process non retarded English prose? or do we blame the "authors" and their complete lack of writing skill?

The internet and various online communities have created a medium for creativity and expression, many different fields (science, art, music etc) have benefited from this, however literature has gotten worse, the worst of the worst amateur authors have been given opportunity to easily publish, the process of online publishing is low quality work is copied by another online author, it is then recycled and made even worse by adding more garbage to it before being published online as a new and original gamelit story. This behaviour should not be tolerated anymore.

>>20526437
What other places are there besides royal road, wattpad, and scribblehub? And what's the demographic like on scribblehub?

>>20526443
I am confused as to what you're disagreeing with me about. We both seemed to have the same problem lol

>>20526451
That I know there is also webnovel but I've read someone here talking about not posting there for whatever reason.
I don't post my works in any of those so no idea. I would assume sh and rr have a lot of overlap but won't take much time to post on both so might as well.

Male lead
>primarily he wants to keep the female lead safe, but he also wants to be forgiven for his father’s death and to gain the courage to ask out the female lead. Eventually he learns he wasn't to blame for his father's death and to not let fear hold him back
Female lead
>she wants to prove to the world that she is a badass and not a coward who hides behind her parents' money. Eventually she realizes the acceptance she sought was within her all along.

>>20526443
Okay, I gave it a chance and stopped at "chinaman" and "nigger". It wasn't badly written, I actually found the prose pretty decent, but this reads like it was written by someone on 4chan. If it's supposed to take place in the 50's it's realistic, but I don't think people want this aspect of historical realism.

>>20526482
Upon further reading, I see now that it's 1800-1900, but still. People usually want a romantic perspective of historical stories. That means a lack of "chinaman" and "nigger". Unless the story is like To Kill A Mockinbird, where the racism is the point

>>20524180
You think YOU'RE a writer? You can't even seethe properly. This is middle-school tier.
>>20524341
Why would they, when even you think it's garbage?
>>20526066
Feel free to seethe in his place.
But beware the anti-pseud.
>>20526450
Then do better.

>>20524816
You can also set up PayPal to take donations.
They're not automatically recurring, but people might like that more.
>>20525396
You may have fallen into the "worldbuilding" trap.
Start writing something instead.
>>20526451
Archive Of Our Own is out there, too.
So far (i.e. two whole webnovels), RoyalRoad is working the best for me...far more views.
But then again, it's a mystery and a LitRPG.

>>20524822
It was two different people. I know.

Do any anons study poetry at all in addition to prose? I've been learning what effects you can have on the way words are emphasized that can emphasize things like speed, force, sudden silence, horror, even irony and sincerity. It works better in poetry because its easier to notice when the rhythm breaks, but you can still employ it in opening or closing lines in prose for emphasis now and then. I'm not thinking so much about it on early drafts but I'm excited about it because I've found more lyrical authors can end paragraphs with such flourish that I have to pause significantly before I move on. Herman Melville was really good at it and I know he read lots of Matthew Arnold and other poets.

>>20526495
yes, the racism is the point. At least you think the prose is pretty decent so that's good.

>>20526495
From what I've read of "Finding San Francisco", I think racism IS the point.

>>20526495
>>20526566
Thank you guys for reading it.

>>20523130
What do you guys think of this stat system for my litrpg?
Attributes:
Health (1 point = 5 health):
Vitality – allows you to regenerate faster

Stamina (1 point = 1 stamina):
Strength – punch and kick with more force, allows you to lift heavier things
Endurance – hardness of your body
Agility – faster allows you to be speedy
Dexterity – allows you more control over your body

Mana (1point = 1 mana):
Intelligence – how fast you think/ability to pack mana into spells faster
Wisdom – how fast you are able to connect ideas/ability to direct spells in more precise manner
Perception – how easily you can notice things/ability to sense changes in mana flow and spells

>>20526578
I don't know about litrpgs. I don't even think it even matters just as long as you're consistent. Hell I've read a few litrpgs where people pull bullshit out of their ass.

>HAHAHAHAHAHA DIE YOU LOSER!!!
>A sword is coming
>WHAT HE BLOCKED IT?!
>Heh, I had 100 skill points still saved up that I never used
>Now, my dexterity and strength are an additional 50 points! I also did the +10 skill point sidequest killing the hentai blob monster
>Now I'm stronger, ASSPULL SKILL OUT OF NOWHERE
>No.... I CAN'T BELIEVE IT! I LOST TO THIS NOOB!!!

Holy fuck how do people read this shit?

>>20526594
addiction, people can't stop reading so you can pull shit out of your ass and you'd still get a 4.7 on royalroad, goddam rating inflation

You know what I noticed about classic novels? They don't really have a blurb. Some of them do. But try putting a blurb on Mrs. Dalloway, Ulysses, Don Quixote, or The Golden Bowl. How could you really encompass what goes on?
It feels like this current environment places so much emphasis on blurbs that capture immediately because if you don't, you don't get sales since there's a mass of content out there now waiting to be consumed and money spent on it. Just thought I'd share some thoughts.

>>20525989
I'm not going to read all of this. The first couple paragraphs are a mess. The phrasing is awkward and a lot of verbs are misused or weirdly used in a bad way.
> the words that furnished the city
furnished?
It feels like you're trying to hard to be eloquent when you should probably just be writing straightforward sentences.
Also, same problem as other anon. You take too long getting to your POV character, Montgomery. You need to make it clear right from the beginning whose head we're inside of.

>>20526594
Fundamentally, the numbers are bullshit. The writer can just find a reason to boost his points if he wanted to. The real mechanics behind win or lose in a litrpg should be conflict and struggle and motives. Otherwise its just a bad story hiding behind game mechanics

>>20526630
>It feels like you're trying to hard to be eloquent when you should probably just be writing straightforward sentences.
Many such case.

>>20526643
>he mixed his wines

>>20526578
I'm using Pathfinder 1e as the foundation of my LitRPG.
It helps that I'm essentially converting one of my own scenarios into a web-novel.
Point being...making up your own stat system is a lot of work. Just use someone else's.
>>20526594
You obviously have never read a LitRPG.
Yours is a strawman argument.

>>20523130
My MC's goal is to untangle/unfuck herself out of the mess she puts herself in as a result of being blackmailed by a criminal syndicate. She just wants her cushy life back.

>>20526678
As someone who has in fact read LitRPGs, that anon is very much correct? Good ones don't do it, sure, but tons do. I wouldn't be surprised if that's an exact example he pulled.

>>20526701
He's giving an example of bad litrpgs and asking who reads this shit. It's disengenious

>>20526630
Thank you. I knew something felt off but I just couldn't figure out why.

>>20526678
I could see someone using Anima: Beyond Fantasy for a LitRPG system and getting praised to high heaven for complexity while also getting shat on for seemingly busted mechanics

seriously that system is just a BEAUTIFUL mess

My spellchecker keeps insisting "whomped" isn't a word. I'll whomp you, spellchecker! Just see if I don't!

>>20526594
Something just occurred to me...what if someone DELIBERATELY wrote a LitRPG this way?
Like a bunch of 12-year-olds fighting over the rules, and who hurt who, instead of actually playing the RPG?
A bunch of self-aware characters whining up a storm.
That might actually be really funny.

Also, I need to find a synonym for "writhed." My heroine is doing far too much writhing. Writhing in the dirt, writhing as she's carried over her captor's shoulder, writhing in her bonds, her bed, just everywhere with the writhing. Bitch, stay till for a minute!

>>20526724
I chose Pathfinder 1e because I know it, and because it's all-encompassing.
Use whatever you're familiar with.
But...
Imagine using F.A.T.A.L. as the basis for a LitRPG...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.A.T.A.L..
...that might be the most 4chan thing ever.

>>20526740
thrash can be a good one whenever it's a violent writhing

>>20526740
Twisted, turned, curled up, face down ass up

>>20526738
Goblin slayer is implied to something like this.
The books refer to the "Gods rolling dice" and imply the whole story is actually a session of Dungeons and Dragons, with literal DnD trademark monsters appearing inside ("He who must not be named" for copyright reasons).

The Goblin Slayer is implied to represent the "Munchkin" players. Players who try to "win" a role playing session by racking up wins in some arbitrary way, Goblin Slayer literally keeps track of the number of goblins he kills.
Priestess represents the serious beginner who takes everything seriously, but doesn't know how to play. High Elf Archer represents the player who just wants a normal DnD sesh and gets angry at Goblin Slayer, the munchkin player, for being so autistic and trying to "win" by exploiting the rules, and lizard priest is the player who doesn't care as long as he has fun. And dwarf shaman is the player who only plays the tolkien character archetypes.

Anyone used grammerly? Might need it to help with my sentence structures.

>>20526747
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.A.T.A.L..
>While extensive rules and mechanics for rape are established, consensual sex is not mentioned at any point in the game.
>In the MacLennan/Sartin review, MacLennan referred to F.A.T.A.L. as "the date rape RPG". Hall, in his response, asked "Where is dating included?"
>Other individual mechanics which have drawn attention include the process of determining how many children a pregnant woman gives birth to, which theoretically involves rolling a ten-million-sided die
lmao

I'm reading a book called "how to write a romance" and there's a small section called the "alpha and the beta" heroes.

It's true. Women also refer to men as "alpha" and "beta"

>>20526578
>Stamina (1 point = 1 stamina):
Why have a derived secondary stat if it's the same. That will just add confusion. Just have stamina. If it's important to distinguish call it base stamina (the size of the meter) and current stamina (how low the green bar is)

>>20526578
>Agility – faster allows you to be speedy
call it speed or quickness. the readers will forget which is which otherwise

vitality and endurance could be folded together.

>>20526803
>In the MacLennan/Sartin review, MacLennan referred to F.A.T.A.L. as "the date rape RPG". Hall, in his response, asked "Where is dating included?"
Still the best example of hilariously missing the point I've ever seen.

>>20526578
I used the mud gemstone as the basis for mine, tweaked it a bit and changed some skills/added some classes. 10 stats, 4 physical, 4 mental and 2 hybrid. experience comes in timed increments. leveling gets exponentially slower in 5 level increments. 1 to 5 is like a couple days, 1-20 takes months, 30-35 would take years. skill growth is logarithmic to avoid power creep, becomes incremental at 20 but gear is important. gear is lost/dropped on death.

Stats and all that nonsense aside I would say the most important thing is making sure power growth cannot get out of control.

>>20526641
>Fundamentally, the numbers are bullshit.
Not true. The rules are essentially a hard magic system with numbers. Readers expect consistency and hate ass pulls.

Sometimes, giving yourself a restrictive set of rules forces you to be more creative.

>>20526810
>Why have a derived secondary stat if it's the same.
what do you mean by this?

>>20526678
>Point being...making up your own stat system is a lot of work. Just use someone else's.
I wish you luck, but I strongly disagree with this sentiment. For most litRPG readers, having a unique system is as important as unique characters and world building. The fun is figuring out how it works along with the protagonist and thinking of ways to exploit/optimize the system for maximal benefit.

>>20526779
The mangas are on archive.org, but I was more interested in the light novels. Oh well.
Still...yeah, sounds like it's in the ballpark.

>>20526740
https://www.onelook.com/reverse-dictionary.shtml?s=writhe

I like this dictionary/thesaurus aggregator.

>>20526818
Look at Nasu's Fate Stay Night. Technically, it's not a novel book, but since a lot of LitRPG is inspired from anime and Light Novels, I think its fair to make the comparison.

In Fate Stay Night, the visual novel, You can literally look up the stats of each character. Saber has A+ luck stat. In the story, Gae Bolg is a lance that is said to literally REVERSE cause and effect so that it decides you've been stabbed in the heart and it doesn't matter how you throw it, because it will stab you in the heart. Then in the next scene, saber barely dodges it, still injuring her, because "her luck stat was so high". And guess what? It managed to get insanely popular because Nasu is just that well regarded despite constantly saying Fuck It to his own rules.

>>20526827
In a lot of tabletop and video games, stats are used to determine secondary values. You have a constitution stat which then applies to your hit points through some formula. But HP is not a stat.

There's no real reason for this but tradition. I'm saying just make em all stats.

>>20526854
you're right I've never really thought of that, I'll add a stamina and magic stat. Vitality will just be health from now on.

>>20523130
The MC of my book's main goal is to willingly be the sacrifice to a ritual that may not work so that he has a chance at revenge against the alien that's destroying his world and is directly responsible for the deaths of his family and his people. He lived his whole life a failure, and now he has nothing left to live for or lose.

How do I write a story taking place in the Appalachias?

>>20526888
The Woobie with nothing left to lose, eh

>>20526895
you're too late.

>>20526895
You write a sibling incest story

>>20526899
Technically a second alien forces him to do it, and through it he realizes that life is worth living simply for the sake of living, but is all the more committed to the task because of his duty to not only those who've died for vengeance, but also to protect what is objectively good found in the living.

>>20526902
I want to write a different kind of book than this I think. I just need to know how basic appalachian culture is, the intricacies of it. I'm gonna bend it a bit.
>>20526905
Might include it, but it wouldn't be part of the main thing.

>>20526830
So just use an obscure, complex one, like the aforementioned Anima: Beyond Fantasy. Just file the serial numbers off. Nobody outside a tiny hardcore community in fucking Spain will notice.

>>20526895
Go there or read books or watch documentaries or news about it. Some parts are affluent but most mountain communities are incredibly poor and wary of outsiders. They will stare at you probably.

>>20526922
>Go there or read books or watch documentaries or news about it.
Can't go there yet, I have plans for that in the future. I can read books and watch doccs though. That's really helpful.
Have any books/documentaries you might recommend?
>Some parts are affluent but most mountain communities are incredibly poor and wary of outsiders. They will stare at you probably.
I've heard this growing up! This is really interesting to me. What's the reason they're wary of outsiders?

>>20526921
Because game design is fun. I don't write to avoid avenues of creativity.

If my hero smokes, should it be mentioned that they smell like smoke when the heroine meets them or only when or after smoking?

>>20526982
When/after, unless they smoke heavily then it'll never leave their clothes. The s will be only faint tho, unless he smoked fresh.

>>20526982
Probably when he meets her, unless there are other strong smells that might overwhelm it. Nonsmokers, and especially female nonsmokers, tend to pick up on the stink of smoke on you right away. Assuming he's at least a pack-a-day smoker.

Here it is. The most disgusting paragraph I've ever written.
>https://pastebin.com/gfS7juVW

>>20526895
Why don't you just write what you know?

>>20524956
I was in no hurry to get there.
Some LitRPGs run for thousands of chapters, and rival "Remembrance of Things Past" by Marcel Proust for length.
I figure brevity wasn't to be done for its own sake.

Vitality – allows you to regenerate faster and how resistant your body is to damage, also live longer

Strength – punch and kick with more force, allows you to lift heavier things
Agility – faster allows you to be speedy
Dexterity – allows you more control over your body
Stamina – how long you can go with being tired

Intelligence – how fast you think/ability to pack mana into spells faster
Wisdom – how fast you are able to connect ideas/ability to direct spells in more precise manner
Perception – how easily you can notice things/ability to sense changes in mana flow and spells
Magic – how much mana you can store in your body

I'm pretty happy with this attribute system but now I'm worrying about my class and skill system. What do you think about this system below?

Classes and skills are divided into tiers, each tier is basically levels in a class or a skill. After reaching the next tier the levels get harder to gain, still not sure how much harder I should make it tho.
Tier 1 (LV 10)
Tier 2 (LV 20)
Tier 3 (LV 30)
etc....
Skills can gain experience by being used frequently or using them in ingenious ways. If one only uses a skill in the same way over and over than that skill will be capped at the highest level of its tier i.e. a tier 1 skill will be capped at level 10. One has to use that skill in an ingenious way which will cause the skill to evolve and go over the level cap. It will evolve depending on how the user used the skill and either become more specific or achieve additional functionality. Skills are also further divided into general skills and class skills. There can be as many general class skills as one can have but they will be much harder to get than class skills.

Tier 1 classes offer three skill slots and every additional tier adds one skill slot to the class. Classes are offered on who someone is right now and who they could be, it's like choosing a path in life. One can only choose a class when they become 10 or whatever 1/10 of how long your race lives. The skills that a class offers can be active or passive it just depends on the class. Classes can also boost certain attributes i.e. mage classes have +5 on magic. When one reaches the next tier level, class options will be given on how the class should evolve. These options are based on ones own achievements, their newfound general skills, and how they used their class. When evolving to a new class one can keep any of the skills they had in their old class and deny whatever skills they were offered by the new class. If a skill is at the peak of a lower tier compared to the new classes tier, then that class will evolve the skill to a higher tier (it will usually just become a stronger version or something more suitable to the new class). One could theoretically have a skill that is a higher tier than their own class and just keep carrying it over to the new class.

Also, the same classes offer the same skills to anyone.

>>20527042
A tame offering, suitable for Bible Belt Christians recovering from surgery.
Try reading >>20521680 for true disgust.

>>20527088
Oh Lord, here goes the worldbuilding again.
Please don't expand on this at the expense of actually writing your story.
I've met SO many authors that fall into that trap.
They end up never writing anything.

>>20527094
Don't worry I was thinking about my story before my litrpg concepts.

Does anyone write anything that attempts to be literary fiction? or is everyone more interested in writing genre fiction?

>>20527124
What makes a work literary fiction again?

>>20527141
character driven with concerns on social commentary, human emotions and conditions, and political criticism. A story that reflects on the era's experience that could only be truly accessed by the readers that lived during the time.

For example, Huckleberry Finn. Despite all the current analysis and readership today, those that lived during Twain's time are the only ones that truly understand the human relationships during that time.

>>20527154
Explain to me how that's not a genre.

>>20527157
it is a genre. Just using the generalized terms on what literary fiction and genre fiction is generally understood at.

>>20527089
Hey, I said the most disgusting paragraph I'VE written, not the most disgusting paragraph EVER written.

>>20527165
Then how is it not genre fiction? Smacks of special pleading.

>>20523130
My MC starts out wanting to know why the world at large would condemn his father and have him killed, and following the twists and turns of the story he wishes to protect and heal the world his father loved to the end. It took me months to figure out what his endgame goal should be, planning is hard.

>>20527154
>write a first person story about a man enjoying anime titties
>contemporary, human emotions/conditions, social commentary about anime titties, and can throw in political criticism of disillusionment of participating in the political system and would rather stay home and look at anime titties.
Could it work?

>>20527168
you tell me. I'm just using pseud's definitions from the internet.

>>20526939
Same reason New Zealanders are wary: there's no reason to go there. It makes you look like you're up to no good.

>>20523130
>What's your MC's story goal?

I have decided for my Royal Road project on four characters that get separated early into the story and team up later.
Should I divide it into their four different perspectives and then blend them all together or just focus on my main character?

>>20527203
focus on your main, everyone hates sidecharacters

>>20527154
Wait, does that mean my webnovel is litfic because it deals with cultural subversion, demonization of a native, white-coded populate, and the reality that such flagrant attempts at oppression only serve to agitate nationalistic sentiments?

>>20527124
I am but I dont post about it lately, I usually post about other things. Suppose you could say Southern Gothic isnt literary but I'm trying to actually tackle serious underlying concepts instead of books like >>20525611
I'm concerned about the romanticization of Peace, the future demise of the sardonic and a few other things regarding beliefs. I'm unironically for anti-intellectualism.

>>20527210
But I thought people liked side characters...

>>20523130
>What's your MC's story goal?
Getting her living weapon fixed before it dies.
Developing and spreading a practical system of martial arts and cultivation.
Working to undermine the efforts of the Divine Emperor in general out of a spiteful, petty grudge over getting mugged by his men at the start of the story.
Raising a protegé to a level similar to her own in order to prove that her methods work.
Fulfilling her role as the Prime Slayer of a Slayers' Guild by slaying beasts. Her definition of "beasts" in this context includes humans that she considers to have relinquished their humanity, usually by being subhuman scum like slavers or oppressors.

In general just being a gigachadette.

>>20527217
people have a limited amount of fucks to give, most of it will be centered on who they think the main character is. when you switch to a side character chapter most will not care about whoever you're talking about. now if you make screentime equal to all four of them, you are now just dividing their fucks into four, which makes them care about the whole story less.

>>20527235
that's retarded
near enough every good tradpubbed novel i've ever read had multiple lead characters even if one was clearly the MC

>>20527235
This. Side characters are good but they're called side characters for a reason.

>>20527235
>>20527246
What if I were to tell what happened to them after they got separated?
I think their pesrpectives are worth telling because it's going to be starred by an ensemble cast sooner or later, and because I find them pretty interesting.

>>20527238
What are some examples?

>>20527254
*what happened to them after they got separated after they meet again?

>>20527254
So do you mean these characters are on par with the MC in terms of importance?

I'm trying to capture the libertarian sci fi of old, and remind people it was a fertile ground for stories before the edgy internet lolberts came around. My main influences would be Poul Anderson (particularly The Star Fox) and Kurt Vonnegut (Harrison Bergeron).

>>20527289
The MC is only in that position because he is the most driven of the four and can manage to keep the group together, and two of them from offing themselves
If anything, it's one of the side characters that is the most important person of the group and the MC is more of a serviceable audience surrogate that has enough personality to not be only that.

Anything similar to Robinson Crusoe I can read to capture what living in the wild’s alone might be like other than fucking off into the wilderness myself?

>>20527309
Harrison Bergeron was a great story, it had such a great impression I forget it wasnt even a novel. Honestly with Andy Weir making hard scifi fairly popular again I can see the niche you mentioned coming back if made fresh.

>>20527320
Write what you know. No one wants to read some dude muse about it in an armchair.
Otherwise there's Lord of the Flies and whatever accounts you get of Victor de Aveyron.

Where do you get your ideas for scenes /lit/?
It's easy for me to type up an outline of a story I'd like to take a protagonist through but filling it up with random scenes quickly becomes the issue.
Like I know I want murder to happen. I want the protagonist to meet or be interviewed by the police. But then I want them to flee.
I don't want them to resist arrest or try to break out of handcuffs/jail/prison.
It's the scene of somehow making brief contact with the police then becoming a fugitive that leaves me puzzled.
Expanding on that idea, as they're fleeing the police through the city, is it just going to be a fire escape rooftop chase, then a car chase, then a subway escape? Sounds like a generic movie.
My first idea was just to watch shows/movies with common themes to get ideas, but finding some place to talk about them like /lit/ might be better instead.

>>20527334
From my dreams. A scene sticks to me as something memorable, and I then draft how the characters get to that point while thinking of whether one of my favorite books/manga/video games has done something similar.

Out of the blue, I sent the first 10k of my self-published novel over to a small press that has no problem with submissions being self-published before. I wish I could find more of them.

>>20527334
I start with the scenes that made me want to write the story, the big "set pieces" that represent the climaxes of the story. Then I figure out what scenes I need to get to those scenes, the scenes I need to get to those scenes, and so on. By the time I've done that, I've usually got enough material for a book.

I write like a Light Novel. Is this bad?

>>20527393
To clarify, everything I've written, I've been told has been funny, but its written like a light novel.

>>20527176
That makes sense. I figure atleast part of it then has to do with a history of exploitation.
>>20527053
I will, but I want to set it in Appalachia. I feel like, when you get down to it, Appalachia is a lot more special than anyone really thinks it is.
The Appalachias are kind of like the Himalayas of America. Only difference is they never quite got the chance to come together and create institutions that function *in spite* of a lack of care from the government. There's something potent there though, something nobody seems ready to play with yet.
I want to write a story about that, so to speak, but with magical realism and some other fun things.

>>20527411
The destitution and utter poverty would make for a less than interesting setting

>Main antagonist is bound to the protagonist
>Side antagonist is traveling with the protagonist and communicating to the main antagonist
>Main antagonist looks exactly like the protagonist and is manipulating him while pretending to be a figment of his imagination, or in other words just a dream

>>20523130
Any advice on developing a character arc?

>>20527420
My story will be a bit of a 'what if', where the appalachias become a thriving community. Not rich, but thriving in a simple uncomplicated lifestyle. A kind of american shangri la.
I just need to know how it already is like better so I can make something realistically grown *from* that.

>>20527393
No. You have a gift of making tons of money on Patreon

>>20527411
I agree with your assessment about Appalachia. As much as it is shit on by the rest of the country, historians have said there is no richer pocket of culture in the U.S. Fiercely independent people, the spirit of their Scottish forebears lives on and is fused with this sense of American Libertariansim. I suggest you read about Spencer's Rebellion, the Whiskey Rebellion, and The Coal Wars if you haven't already

Fuck RC Waldun’s dumb ass accent.

>>20527473
Black Rednecks and White Liberals by Thomas Sowell, and Cracker Culture by Grady McWhiney are also good recs about Appalachian Culture.

O Briton! Strength ye have, the none compare,
Thou battle well upon the fields o' gold,
The loyalty to Queen, ne'er be e'er sold,
Thine mettle great, ye've possessed quite the share,
And bend thine bowstrings, ye brave yeomen,
With arrows sharp and swift, ye'll attack as snakes
With lightning speed and bite behind thine stakes,
All aiming at the foul Mohammedan!

>>20527473
>>20527502
This is great, thank you!

>>20527483
Isn't it an act?

>>20527445
Just like a story, you should think of how it begins and how it ends. Let me give you an example:
>Character is an artist who is entranced by the sea near his hometown and the mythical sea of light he's never gotten to see but is also disturbed by a skeleton that only he can see
>His goal in life is to create something beautiful that will last forever
>At first, he believes it has to be something that can be painted
>As his character develops, he's challenged on whether any creation by one man can do so
>He ends up sacrificing himself in the end and said sacrifice literally carves out a beautiful pond, and he concludes his story right at the sea he loves, realizing what the skeleton means and wondering if that man was happy
Maybe it helps to think of an arc like a mini-story. Who challenges the character? Who makes them grow, what are their hopes and dreams?

>>20526600
Hey, at least if you're writing non-LitRPG on RR you can feel better about being rated below a bunch of shit for barely-literate third-worlders, right?

Do you gys ever have such common tropes/themes/ideas in your writing. that you question what is your writing without these things?

I think this an important thought if we wish to stay fresh as writers

>>20527632
Is it bad I browse TV Tropes looking for new ideas? Everything has been done. It's that simple. What works for me is finding an idea I like someone else has done and trying to do something different with it.
I can either spend a week with writers block trying to figure out something brand new (that really isn't) or I can stay busy practicing anti-plagiarism on ideas already told, but just not like "that".

>>20527632
Death, the beginning and the end is something that comes up in a lot of my writing and I can attribute it to how my favorite pieces of fiction had it in some form.

>>20527648
For me I write what I want I have a lot of common themes/tropes/ideas in my writing that I enjoy writing about

The problem is I'm repeating the same idea over and over in some aspects to the story. While I love writing about them I worry what is my writing without say my love of goats

I question if this is ok as you're readers will enjoy these things because you fit their niche.

But I do wonder If I should try to stay fresh in some aspects Even with my love of say Goats or characters with schizo.

What do you think? Should we write about the things we love or try to be fresh? Or a mix of both?

>>20527666
No reader wants to keep reading the same thing over and over but look at hollywood. Sequel after sequel. The most popular tv series have been running for +20 years telling the same story.

>>20527677
It is true with readers they seek out similar books to the ones they like (Tv shows and movies too) so they try to find story's will common trops to say Your writing if their a big fan

Theres kinda a double edged sword You need to stay fresh but also the same with your own personal thouch that the readers enjoy

Or just say fuck it I'm writing for *Me* and i'll write whatever I damn well please.

sometimes what is offden times best is to write the story you wanna read and the readers will come and enjoy your weird niches

>>20527686
Yeah, it's not even like my niche is weird so much as me liking surreal stories.

>>20527666
I'm the same way, but instead of goats, it's rape.

>Story begins with the 'protagonist' saying he'll get revenge on the one who killed his father, even if it's Death himself
>Story ends with Death (The real protagonist) confronting the 'protagonist' (Actually the antagonist) at the same place
Do you ever think up of something and then wonder what were you tripping on?

I will never write anything good.

>>20527712
Rape is in a lot of my first drafts/outlines Its just edited out because I find it to horroifying to keep it in (Its mainly for plot reasons not fetish)

But You know anon I should follow my dreams and make a story about a rape survivor

>>20527695
Doesn't have to be. Just write what you want unless you wanna do trad publishing

>>20527154
Sounds like a pretty arbitrary division. Why can't genrefic likewise be a litifc if it tackles topics that would check the marks for it, like >>20527214 mentioned?

>>20527769
My most pressing issue now is sorting out the plot threads so that I don't create a plot hole induced by changing major shit, then we can talk about publishing. Hell, I'd even check out web publishing platforms that aren't scams but that requires me to stop overthinking everything.

>>20527154
>A story that reflects on the era's experience that could only be truly accessed by the readers that lived during the time.
Lame. I want to write stories that only some future generation can truly appreciate.

>>20527632
Tropes are unavoidable, what matters is not being cliche and using tropes in an interesting way or a way that sort of excuses their use. One trope I can name off the top of my head is having my first chapter take place from the PoV of a fake protagonist, who then dies by the end of said chapter and the real protag takes over.

>>20527775
If your gonna post online that is "Self pub" Its actually very useful if you feel your writing is up to a point to where it can be shared while not on trad pub levels.

If you have more followers on say AO3 or kudos or whatever and prove people like your writing you have a better time getting trad pub because they'll see you have fans and said fans will be willing to buy.

So posting on AO3/Wattpad/fanfic.net are all wise choices if you feel your not there for trad pub or you want to mass an audice Or both,

Posting online is "self pub" just not a psyical book

>>20527203
It's less bad if you do it from the start. What really sucks is getting invested in one character for a hundred chapters and THEN having it fracture into many story lines.

Royal Road is biased for one strong, male protagonist. You'll have to have a good story to overcome that and get traction

>>20527790
Then you must write about boobs.

>>20527254
>What are some examples?
Stephen King's the Stand
Shitload of characters

>>20527814
>It's less bad if you do it from the start.
Yeah, that was part of my plan at the moment.

>Royal Road is biased for one strong, male protagonist.
Strong in what sense? Just being powerful?

>>20527796
If you're a first-time author I would absolutely say that you should self pub first. Ideally what you should do is use free online platforms to amass an audience with your first book or via using short stories to build up the universe before you dive headfirst into a big novel a la The Witcher, and then once you do you can either stay commited to the selfpub route and monetize your stuff via patreon or subscribestar, or take your "main" work to a publisher, show them you already have an audience and then go from there. Personally, I think the former option is better because dealing with agents and publishers and editors and shit like that is ass cancer and can be expensive, especially if you're like me and live in a place where your monthly wage isn't even enough to buy an editor from the US.

>>20527648
I sometimes end up spending way too much time for an entry that describes one of my ideas just to see if there are any branching paths I overlooked.

>>20527796
>>20527835
Solid idea there, thanks anons.

>>20527831
>Strong in what sense? Just being powerful?
Yeah. It's not a requirement or anything, but a lot of the readers are teen boys who eat that shit up. They'll boost your numbers, but on the other hand, they'll bitch constantly when the main character suffers any sort of setback or shows weakness.
Look at Primal Hunter for an example.

>>20527861
Worse still, you end up checking the source work to see if their execution is great.

>Open up new word Doc
>Blank page
>Refuse to write
How do I get rid of this hesitation to write when faced with a blank page?

>>20527898
Means you lack creativity

How do you handle major characters who are already dead by the time the story begins?

>>20527898
Write porn. Always works for me. It doesn't even have to be good porn. Today I wrote 8107 words, and 6,704 of them are perfectly good. The other 1403 are also good, but extremely X-rated. But hey, take out the orc gang-rape scene, and I've got a solid start to a Sword & Planet story.

>>20527967
...how is a dead person a character in your story? They're dead. That pretty much excludes them from being a character.

>>20527987
Right? But that's the problem, the mystery behind who he actually was, what did he do, why did he die and who actually killed him is a big part of the plot.

>>20527993
That's not a character, my man. That's a plot device. Notice how you even said it's a big part of the plot? Plot device. Characters act, they do things, they have a voice, goals, motivations. Dead people are just objects in the story.

>>20527967
You have other people talk about them / examine their personal effects? If it's a mystery, have them talk to people who may have heard of / known the person in question, have them dig up medical records or visit places he's been, talk to people he may have known, even do a little bit of healthy breaking and entering if they figure out where his property is to dig for clues. Shit in that vein, idk what genre your story is but I'm sure you can figure something else out from here.

>>20527896
Nothing bad with getting inspired. That's the point of reading, isn't it? To see how others have done something well so that you can learn to do it better yourself.

>>20527898
I always hear this and a lot of the time I have outlines/ideas written that I'm trying to figure out how to write/finish

A lot of the time it stews and takes some time to figure things out.

But to be honest with you just write some outlines when you feel in the writing mood write them and you'll have a place to start when the page mocks you. it has always worked for me.

>>20528029
Maybe I'm overthinking this, yeah. What I thought was that this person might be dead but basically every major thing he did affected the setting, he had a voice, goals motivation and so on so he should count as a character.

>>20528037
It's a fantasy story, all that's known of him at first is that he was a bad enough person to be killed by heroes so you could say in essence that the question is 'How do you depict a dead person enough that he's just as much of a character as the living?'. The protagonist does eventually get to speak to him so there's that.

>Nothing bad with getting inspired. That's the point of reading, isn't it? To see how others have done something well so that you can learn to do it better yourself.
That's so true. There's so much you can study even in different mediums that do the same thing. Colors, atmosphere, pacing, diction and perspective are all fascinating to explore even if you have to cut out one or more of those things.

I seem to only be able to write very late at night, around 10 PM to 12 AM. How do I become comfortable writing earlier in the day?

>>20528087
Think about why you're most active during that time first. Is it the ambience, mood or lack of interruptions that makes you productive? If yes, perhaps you can replicate that feeling.

>>20528057
Nope. A character is an active participant in a story. They aren't necessarily important to the story, they just do stuff.

Like in the story I'm writing write now, my main character is a spoiled rich girl named Ashley. Ashley's father, "Daddy," is a constant presence in the story, because Ashley's whole world essentially revolves around manipulating her father to get what she wants and her entire value system and worldview is just mindlessly repeating what he's told her. But he never appears in the story (mostly because she gets teleported to another world on page 2), so he's not a character.

Meanwhile, there's an unnamed serving girl whose entire description is "A young girl, no more than thirteen, in a peasant smock and apron..." She has no dialogue, no relevance to the story, she exist purely to show up every few paragraph and refill the flagon Ashley is drinking from, which causes her to get drunk. And yet, she's a character while Daddy is not.

>>20528130
I get what you mean now, a character however minor has to be able to assert themselves. Thanks!

Wrote a prologue for my orc rape story.
>https://pastebin.com/bBWxkakq

And here's a snippet from chapter one, so you can see how it connects to the story itself:
>https://pastebin.com/zauJHafS

>>20526185
Who are you quoting?

>as he
>as she
>as he
>as he
>as the
FUCKKKKKKKK

>>20527420
Considering that Grit Lit is a genre, I'd disagree with that. You take really poor people, make them capable of heinous acts and put them in a corner. For some reason people love it. Even numerous celebrities like Madonna idolize Harry Crews and she doesnt particularly like poor whites. If you consider some of Cormac McCarthy's stuff that falls under the same category it's even more surprising. There's this macabre fascination people get with modern antiheroes, freaks and villains because those characters are not restrained by laws or common decency.

>>20528373
???

>>20528410
i write like that

>>20528416
So? I also write like that. "as" is a great bridge word for building varied sentences.

>John drove the car through the crowd. Sarah unloaded the machine gun into the crowd.
vs
>John drove the car through the crowd as Sarah unloaded the machine gun into them. Pretty obvious which reads better.

>>20528416
Open a few books and look at the subjects of the sentences. Free your mind. Paragraphs can explore all the senses, ideas, events and places. We have a habit of limiting ourselves to characters as a subject, but you really are free. I've seen some authors focus on the body so they mention "eyes looking back" instead of the girl without even mentioning whose eyes. It's a matter of style how you vary but do vary.

My main character wants to give birth to the light growing inside of her to expel the outer darkness of the realm.

>>20528489
Is the light making her thicker?

>>20528489
>schizophrenic woman believes she will give birth to the savior of the world if she is impregnated by the pope
>pope is unwilling
>stealth missions her way into the Vatican to rape the pope

>>20527171
I once had an idea for a story about some neckbeard virgin who hallucinates his waifu coming to life in his room. The waifu only speaks Japanese (which he doesn't speak) and is morbidly afraid since she thinks she's being kidnapped. The story goes on with the girl realizing her entire life was a fabrication and kills herself, then the guy tries as well. Then he gets admitted into a mental hospital for severe hallucinations and suicide attempts.

>>20528505
/x/ called, they want their tulpas back.

>>20527203
How about writing all four plot lines with alternating sentences.
That'll puzzle your readers.

>>20527203
Be creative! Why not make it so each character goes through the same exact location as the one before them, only this time they describe it and what they find there through their own subjective lens. Surely such a vidvid and well hammered in description will ground the reader and allow themselves to be immersed as can be.

>>20528423
>>20528481
cheers anons

>>20528501
>Pope is aware of a prophecy that if he taps that ass she'll give birth to the Anti-Christ

>>20527166
Fair enough.
Andedonia was so nasty, I think even John Waters, back in the day, would have said "you've gone too far; I'd rather show a crossdresser eat dog shit".

New thread >>20528795
for when the time comes...

>>20528423
>"as" is a great bridge word for building varied sentences
lol

>>20528423
>John drove the car through the crowd, and Sarah unloaded the machine gun into them.
Inb4 "as" conveys the simultaneity of the two events. Based on the context that will probably be perfectly clear by using "and." When you us "as" to convey simultaneity, it kind of dilutes the power of the sentence. It's better to present individual images, and the reader's brain will put it all together correctly. The even bigger problem that a lot of beginning writers have is using "as" to convey a response
>she gasped as she saw the truck bearing down on the crowd, then cried out as a bullet slammed into her chest
Obviously the point isn't that you can never use "as." You can go through and find examples of it the writing successful authors. A good idea is to do a ctrl+f of "as" in your manuscript, then do the same for a similarly long piece of writing by a successful author and see if there's a difference. For a lot of beginning writers there will be

>John drove the car through the crowd. Sarah unloaded the machine gun into them.
Honestly this could work too. The short sentences could work for the pacing of the scene. When you isolate them out like this it might read a bit weird. But with fiction, the point isn't making each sentence work as a great sentence. All that matters is how it fits into the scene.

Anyway, both of these examples are better than your "as" sentence, which reads as diffused and sluggish.

>>20527892
Thanks, anon.

I'll check that one out just in case.

>>20528798
This thread didn't even reach the bump limit.

>>20530168
Not my probelm

>want to write my novel
>global society will collapse before next year so it's useless
What do?

>>20530281
Write it quickly then!

>>20529282
>Anyway, both of these examples are better than your "as" sentence, which reads as diffused and sluggish.
No, they aren't, and no, it isn't.

I'm listening to sword of the lichter and it dawned on me. Gene Wolfe is telling a lot but it works because he writes from the first person