/lit/ - Literature

> Throughout his later life, Plato became entangled with the politics of the city of Syracuse. According to Diogenes Laërtius, Plato initially visited Syracuse while it was under the rule of Dionysius.[58] During this first trip Dionysius's brother-in-law, Dion of Syracuse, became one of Plato's disciples, but the tyrant himself turned against Plato. Plato almost faced death, but he was sold into slavery.[g] Anniceris, a Cyrenaic philosopher, subsequently bought Plato's freedom for twenty minas,[60] and sent him home. After Dionysius's death, according to Plato's Seventh Letter, Dion requested Plato return to Syracuse to tutor Dionysius II and guide him to become a philosopher king. Dionysius II seemed to accept Plato's teachings, but he became suspicious of Dion, his uncle. Dionysius expelled Dion and kept Plato against his will. Eventually Plato left Syracuse. Dion would return to overthrow Dionysius and ruled Syracuse for a short time before being usurped by Calippus, a fellow disciple of Plato.

Read The Seventh Letter of Plato to learn more.

> Near the end of his life, Alexander and Aristotle became estranged over Alexander's relationship with Persia and Persians. ****A widespread tradition in antiquity suspected Aristotle of playing a role in Alexander's death****, but the only evidence of this is an unlikely claim made some six years after the death.[22] Following Alexander's death, anti-Macedonian sentiment in Athens was rekindled. In 322 BC, Demophilus and Eurymedon the Hierophant reportedly denounced Aristotle for impiety,[23] prompting him to flee to his mother's family estate in Chalcis, on Euboea, at which occasion he was said to have stated: "I will not allow the Athenians to sin twice against philosophy"[24][25][26] – a reference to Athens's trial and execution of Socrates. He died on Euboea of natural causes later that same year, having named his student Antipater as his chief executor and leaving a will in which he asked to be buried next to his wife.[27]

Look up "Hagnothemis" to learn more about the sinister shit Aristotle did.

>>20507162
>>20507163
Looks like they were actually pretty based.

>>20507188
> Haha, terrorizing thousands of people for the sake of your shitty ideology is so le bayzed.
Die faggot. The world has suffered under enough of your type.

>>20507162
Go away, Friedrich

>>20507162
Chinese philosophy > Greek philosophy

>>20507162
>> Subvert Greek society, religion, and the youth with your sophistry.
Plato's unhinged criticism of masculine love is one of the most harmful developments in Western philosophy..

>>20507235
>muh people
You will never be a man.

>>20507162
>subvert Greek religion
>invents monotheism and proves the existence of the afterlife
why are you so mad that nobody worships Zeus anymore? even fucking JOE ROGAN can appreciate Marcus Aurelius so to make this post you are more retarded than he is

>>20507162
>Socrates
>atheist
Yeh youre a retard

>>20507323
To be fair, Voltaire wasn't an atheist either and yet he subverted religion. You don't have to be an atheist to subvert religion, retard.

>>20507282
Hey good turn of phrase

>>20507334
*she
Mme. Francoise-Marie Arouet neither deist, nor male, nor any thinker, only a salon gossip bixxh whxxe. If she had been male she will quickly become a transwoman.

Recall what happened to Anytus's son who came under the influence of Socrates
> It is also said that, seeing Anytus 55 pass by, Socrates remarked: "How proudly the great man steps; he thinks, no doubt, he has performed some great and noble deed in putting me to death, and all because, seeing him deemed worthy of the highest honours of the state, I told him it ill became him to bring up his so in a tan-yard. 56 What a scamp the fellow is! he appears not to know that of us two whichever has achieved what is best and noblest for all future time is the real victor in this suit. Well! well!" he added, "Homer 57 has ascribed to some at the point of death a power of forecasting things to be, and I too am minded to utter a prophecy. Once, for a brief space, I associated with the son of Anytus, and he seemed to me not lacking in strength of soul; and what I say is, he will not adhere long to the slavish employment which his father has prepared for him, but, in the absence of any earnest friend and guardian, he is like to be led into some base passion and go to great lengths in depravity."
> The prophecy proved true. The young man fell a victim to the pleasures of wine; night and day he never ceased drinking, and at last became a mere good-for-nothing, worthless alike to his city, his friends, and himself.
Socrates ruined this young man--who would have otherwise followed in his father's very respectable footsteps--and he took pleasure in it. He did this to the sons of his enemies; he did this to the sons of Athens; and modern academia seeks to carry on this depraved legacy in perverting our sons.
>>20507282
> The people are just tools and pieces in my sick ideologically driven game
Die, faggot. You are not human.
>>20507323
Socrates wasn't an atheist. He worshiped himself.

>>20507162
>caring about the politics
>of ANCIENT MEN
is there any hope for you?

>>20507527
> t. continues to read Ancient charlatans like Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle.
Nice try you disingenuous piece of shit.

> Socrates: Time to tutor a tyrant to terrorize the people (the same people who will eventually make me pay for my crimes)!
> Plato: Time to try to influence a tyrant into bringing about my sick and twisted Utopia (the same tyrant who will eventually enslave me until I'm bought out of slavery by a friend like the utter faggot I am)!
> Aristotle: Time to tutor a neurotic world-conqueror (the same neurotic world-conqueror whose assassination I will aid in; after which I will run away to go live on an island to avoid my just deserts)!

> Caracalla's mania for Alexander went so far that Caracalla visited Alexandria while preparing for his Persian invasion and persecuted philosophers of the Aristotelian school based on a legend that Aristotle had poisoned Alexander. This was a sign of Caracalla's increasingly erratic behaviour. But this mania for Alexander, strange as it was, was overshadowed by subsequent events in Alexandria.[293]
Hahaha, I have no sympathy for those faggots!

History looks upon the accusers of Socrates as if they simply reactionary fools--but who is the fool? the person who reacts to the menace that has engulfed his once great and happy nation into misery, anger, pain, and despair? or the people who read from the comfort of the armchairs of the extraordinary life of Socrates, a man who was oh so unfairly and unjustly persecuted and eventually executed for his crimes of simply asking important questions. Is it the person acting on real life experience? or the person acting on millennia old propaganda? Socrates might have discounted writing, but Plato et al. made sure to take that all very seriously, for now very obvious and very nefarious reasons.

>>20508119
> History is written by the victors.
If History says that Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle are the good guys, who are the victors again?

Thanks for all these excerpts, OP. Think I'll pick up one of the dialogues, maybe Philebus, and reread them. You've reminded me of the immense culture and intellectual power of these fine Hellenes.

>>20508059
So you assign both the achievements of Alexander and his death to Aristotle. But you think both are bad. Care to explan?

>>20508391
As long as you read them knowing how sinister these characters are. How their doctrines destroyed nations and how they plotted and schemed to enslave all of the civilized world.
Plato was notorious for being a prideful fame-seeker. It's incredible that we now look up to these charlatans. These people were looking to "connect" with and influence people (they were ideologues trained in networking with the elite).
>>20508494
Aristotle had a hand in Alexander's demise by poison. Look up "Hagnothemis" to learn more about the sinister shit Aristotle did.

> XXIV. But Molon, who had a great dislike to Plato, says “There is not so much to wonder at in Dionysius being at Corinth, as in Plato’s being in Sicily.” Xenophon, too, does not appear to have been very friendlily disposed towards him: and accordingly they have, as if in rivalry of one another, both written books with the same title, the Banquet, the Defence of Socrates, Moral Reminiscences. Then, too, the one wrote the Cyropædia and the other a book on Politics; and Plato in his Laws says, that the Cyropædia is a mere romance, for that Cyrus was not such a person as he is described in that book. And though they both speak so much of Socrates, neither of[126] them ever mentions the other, except that Xenophon once speaks of Plato in the third book of his Reminiscences. It is said also, that Antisthenes, being about to recite something that he had written, invited him to be present; and that Plato having asked what he was going to recite, he said it was an essay on the impropriety of contradicting. “How then,” said Plato, “can you write on this subject?” and then he showed him that he was arguing in a circle. But Antisthenes was annoyed, and composed a dialogue against Plato, which he entitled Sathon [an expletive which sort of rhymes with Plato(n)'s name and that he nicknamed Plato and which apparently means "dick"]; after which they were always enemies to one another; and they say that Socrates having heard Plato read the Lysis, said, “O Hercules! what a number of lies the young man has told about me.” For he had set down a great many things as sayings of Socrates which he never said.
Nobody likes this "Dick", not even his faggot friends. What kind of a man puts words into another man's mouth? a man whom he supposedly considers to be a mentor and a wise tutor? He wouldn't be shocked to learn, I imagine, that long after his (well-deserved, but far too late) execution, Plato went on writing dialogues where he used his mentor's rotting corpse as a mouth piece for his own idea. How much more disrespectful can a man get? His dead friend? whose death he whined so much about? Funny.

> Be Plato
> Suck at philosophy
> Can't refute people's arguments
> It's okay! I don't actually have to be good at arguing! I can just get some strawmen to play around with!
> Makes people, dead or alive, say things they never said, just so he could come out on top.
What a fucking hack.
>>20509045
This is from Diogenes Laërtius btw.

the good is the good
seethe all you want about it

>>20509109
> the good is the good
You don't need any of these old faggots to tell you that, now do you? If you do, then you are truly lost and all too hopless.

>>20509127
You're one of those people that don't even know that they don't know shit.

>>20509136
> I'm the wisest person because I know that I don't know anything!
Cringiest quote ever. And that faggot nerd really thought he was clever in saying that. Not many people actually claim to know everything, or even act like it. If anyone ever did so, it was Socrates's ilk.
I never claimed to know everything.
Plato, however, was always prideful of his knowledge. And he and Socrates were shameless self-promoters.
Socrates pretended to have knowledge. He did not. He could only needlessly question, subvert, and play sophistical word games. He had no knowledge and thus professed a lot less ignorance than he truly had. Socrates was perhaps one of the most ignorant pseuds in Athens.

>>20509154
>Socrates pretended to have knowledge. He did not.
He knew that he knew nothing, thus knew something, did he not?
What do you know then?

>>20509173
> He knew that he knew nothing, thus knew something, did he not?
I mean knowledge of philosophical interest.
> inb4 b-but that is of philosophical interest
Fuck off, faggot. At this point you're just conceding my point.
> What do you know then?
That Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle were self-promoting charlatan hacks who subverted Ancient Greek civilization and terrorized the noble people to further their silly ideological beliefs.

City of pigs indeed! Where does he get off?!

>>20509210
>Fuck off, faggot
Not an argument. You seem ignorant of your own ignorance.

>>20509261
Did you really miss this?:
> At this point you're just conceding my point.
It's not even worth entertaining what philosophical interest there is in the proposition that "one who is aware of his ignorance knows at least that he is ignorant" to argue because 1.) it isn't an interesting proposition worthy of any deep philosophical investigation and 2.) you are simply conceding that Socrates had nothing to say but trite platitudes, which he used to to make it less obvious that he was not able to contribute anything of rational content that wasn't sophistical to an argument.
> He was ignorant
> Nuh-uh, actually! he knew one thing!!1!
Ok? irrelevant to the conversation. I'm saying that Socrates knew nothing besides. If you agree then you have conceded my point. In this case Socrates should just shut the fuck up if he knows he has nothing intelligent to say about anything. So here we are: Either Socrates was not being intellectually honest (only engaging in conversations he had a clue about or at least warning people if he didn't) or he was sure he knew more than he really did.
> Repeats Socratic buzzword hoping it will make him wiser
Pathetic. It's clear that you are the sad being who thinks he knows something when in fact it is he who suffers from the meanest ignorance imaginable. You don't know shit but would like to associate with people who (you misguidedly think) do. I attack your idols and you can't help but try to defend them. You were brainwashed, and refuse to see through the propaganda. You say "We are both ignorant, but you attack Socrates, therefore you are worse." What a fucking joke it is that you want to talk about people pretending about anything. You get mad that "Fuck off, faggot." is not an argument, but you have yet to refute any of mine. Again, Pathetic.

A r i S t o c l e s
r – - o
i – - c
s - - r
t – - a
o - - t
t – - e
l – - s
e

>>20507252
China has religious texts and wisdom literature, but no philosophy.

>>20507163
>ARISTOTLE KILLED ALEXANDER WITH REALLY COLD WATER
Lol okay

>>20509521
It was poison you disingenuous fuck. People weren't fucking stupid, they knew that Aristotle studied these things and was generally a really nefarious and shady person. He did his part, so what do you gain from defending him is my question?

>>20509491
Roicsrtaottels?

>>20507463
No Socrates is not taking pleasure in the degeneration of Anytus’s son. He’s lamenting that the son’s talents and curiosity would be wasted on the tanning trade that his father constrained him too and that the boy will be unsatisfied as a result and waste himself.

Also Socrates didn’t worship himself. He just thought the gods spoke to him and followed their instruction, otherwise following normal rules of piety.

>2500 years ago a few men wanted to create a "utopia" which is basically just a society without disgenic retards.
>this concept seems to makes OP upset.
Hmm. I wonder why OP doesn't like these men.

>>20509915
Aristotle didn't advocate for Plato's """"utopia"""", retard. And Socrates's society was also a shitty DYSTOPIA. You'd know all this if you bothered to read any of them. Go ahead, read them. I recommend them. Peer into the mind of professional self-interested sophists who also happen to be psychotic ideologues.

>>20507463
I’m carrying on his legacy by trying to pervert your daughters, personally speaking.

>>20507162
Getting filtered by greeks lmao

>>20507162
didn't some of the German philosophers say that Christianity was the weaponization of orientalist cults by the greeks to use soft power to destroy the oppressive roman empire
anyway.....

>>20509604
From the Wiki on Hagnothemis:

>Hagnothemis claimed he had heard KingAntigonusspeak of this, and that the poison was "deadly cold" water distilled from a rock and so "cold and penetrating" that it could only be kept in anass's hoof

Lol lmao it was "rlly rlly cold wawa" he claims Aristotle killed Alexander with, from all the way in Athens

>>20507162
Aristotle did nothing wrong as far as I know.
On the other hand, Meletos did nothing wrong either. Socrates was 100% guilty of the charges laid at his feet, and they were relatively reasonable charges for the time. Plato himself could have easily been charged and executed as a "Physicos".

>>20509154
>Cringiest quote ever. And that faggot nerd really thought he was clever in saying that
IIRC its the Oracle of Delphi who said it first.

>>20510466
Oracle only said that he was the smartest. Socrates made this thing about not knowing anything up himself.

>>20507270
Phaedrus is some of the most homoerotic shit I've ever read.

>>20507162
Where I can read more about these sinister things of them?

>>20507162
>sophistry
stopped reading there. go read a book kid

>>20510195
Show me where I was filtered, genius. Filtered doesn't just mean I don't agree with them you psychological cum-dumpster.

>>20510453
True anon. Aristotle dindu nuffin. Socrates was 100% guilty. Plato was an all around madman.

>>20510453
>Aristotle did nothing wrong
He poisoned Alexander with a cup of cold water, he was an evil man.

>>20511283
Alexander was a degenerate and deserved it.
Also, if you die from a cup of cold water, you were going to die soon anyways.

>>20507162
>he took Plato’s Republic literally
lmaoooo

>>20507162
Aristotle is directly responsible for the state of the modern world.

> cup of cold water
Holy shit, ancient conspiracy theories fucking sucked. Crazy to think people over at the 4gora back in the day where rabidly accusing Aristotle of this lame ass shit
> I'm telling you, man, it's fucking real!! Aristotle used his alchemy to make cold rock water to poison Alexander with. Why do you think he ran away? The rock water was literally so penetrating, that you have to keep it in the hoof of an ass! no, I'm not joking! Just look at this infographic I inscribed here earlier, it explains EVERYTHING!!!!

>>20510453
What new gods did Socrates introduce, pray tell?

>>20511096
Meletus did nothing wrong!

'grats on the 59 replies, op

>>20510697
The word has a negative connotation which existed even in their time. These faggots aren't any better than the professional teachers who just wanted some compensation for their work just because they don't ask for money, they're just not as as bad as they could have been if they actually charged for their word-game nonsense; on the other hand, instead of asking for money, they all clearly sought out some sort of villainous political influence which they all got in their special way (and which all backfired back on them in their own special ways; and some not as badly as they SHOULD HAVE I might add).
>>20510426
>>20511283
I'm sorry, are you here to deboonk the statement, Snopes? Do you have any sources to back up the debooking? No? Oh? it just sounds weird? Yeah, he's definitely a good excuse not to pay attention to these primary sources which many people took seriously.
>>20511298
>Alexander was a degenerate
Are you telling me that the "le everything in moderation" guy failed him on that very account? curious...
>and deserved it.
Aristotle destabilised an entire empire for nefarious purposes. Nothing the people did deserved that.
>>20511309
What? Like Aristotle did in his Politics? uh oh, guess he was le filtered!! XD
kys.

>>20511819
Lmao your primary source for the claim Aristotle poisoned Alexander says he did it with really cold rock water lol holy shit

>>20511438
We'll never know, given that he was bright enough not to leave written proof of a crime that received capital punishment.
I did say *relatively*, that is the one charge that sticks out, usually it would have been " denied the God's divinity and reduced them to Earthly forces".

>>20511908
> Whoa, bro! Hagnothemis didn't give the fucking biochemical makeup of the specific poision that Aristotle used but instead attempted to give a very natural description understandable to anybody, so now I guess that means it didn't actually happen and we should just ignore everything he said!
Just fucking listen to yourself. I really hope you are being disingenuous, for your sake.

>>20510643
There should be one book right? I'm aware of none really. Perhaps for that reason I should write one myself. I've had to find these excerpts myself. I came to this conclusion only after deep meditation and basic pattern recognition. Academia really is full of NPCs.

>>20507162
> Subvert Greek society, religion, and the youth with your sophistry.

thats nor false but its incomplete.

greek society was itself decaying so it created them to renew tradition, which is what happened later with hellenism.

no society ever lets prankers thrive if it doesnt have a use for them.

>>20512183
Lol the Greeks knew plants like Hemlock were poisonous, but here comes Hagnothemis swinging his dick around saying cold water distilled by a rock was what poisoned Alexander lmao

>>20507162
I wouldn't go as far as you in condemning them, but it's beyond dispute that Athenians corrupted philosophy and ultimately those people represent a deep decline from the glorious pre-socratics.

>>20507235
>global citizen
no such thing

>>20512324
I mean you could 100% kill people using water in which some poisonous geodes had been put. The whole "cold" thing I don't know what that would be about.

>>20507162
Stop applying pol brain rot thought patterns to things you don't understand. 400BC greece is not the modern political landscape. Philosophy and history are not a culture war.

Based and Strauss-piled.

>>20513553
>Calling Popper "pol brain rot"
Are you retarded?

>>20507235
if you can be subverted you are weak

>>20508391
>You've reminded me of the immense culture
If you respected Greek culture you should've hated Socrates then.

>>20507162
>>20507163
Looks like they were actually pretty based.

>plato, aristotle and socrates weren’t religious
this is revisionist history atheist cope. they were devout pagans

>>20512350
Yes there is. Not everyone is some nationalistic NPC. Wisdom and enlightenment, like Plato's, says only "the world is your oyster" Go on and go ahead. Every language, every people, every culture, they are all human, and they are here for you to experience.
> t. another citizen of this world

>>20514986
He never said that they weren't religious, retard.

>>20507290
>why are you so mad that nobody worships Zeus anymore
>thinks any of these 3 invented monotheism
brown christcuck hands typed this post

ARISTOTLE FUCKING POISONED SOMEONE AND YOU FAGGOTS ARE FUCKING LAUGHING. IGNORE THE FACT THAT ARISTOTLE FUCKING POISONED SOMEONE LIKE THE REST OF ACADEMIA, YEAH, THAT MAKES TOTAL FUCKING SENSE. FUCK YOU AND FUCK ACADEMIA A THOUSAND TIMES. THIS SHIT ACCUTUALLY MAKES ME SEETHE WITH SO MUCH RIGHTEOUS ANGER. THE CONQUEROR OF ALL THE KNOWN WORLD WAS ASSASSINATED BY SOME SHADY ACADEMIC.
>>20510426
>he claims Aristotle killed Alexander with, from all the way in Athens
YOU DISINGENUOUS PIECE OF FUCKING SHIT. ARISTOTLE DIDN'T DELIVER THE POISON HIMSELF (BECAUSE OF COURSE THAT PUSSY WOULDN'T); HE HAD CASSANDER, THE SON OF ANTIPATER, PASS ALEXANDER THE POISON; ****THE SAME ANTIPATER WHO ARISTOTLE WOULD LATER NAME AS THE EXECUTOR OF HIS FUCKING WILL****. NOPE, NOTHING STRANGE GOING ON HERE!!!! NOT TO MENTION THAT ALEXANDER THREW ARISTOTLE'S FUCKING NEPHEW, CALLISTHENES, INTO PRISON (WHERE HE DIED LIKE A BITCH) AFTER HE WAS CAUGHT TRYING TO ASSASSINATE ALEXANDER JUST AS ARISTOTLE HIMSELF WOULD LATER SUCCED IN DOING!!!! THINK ARISTOTLE HAD ANY HARD FEELINGS ABOUT THAT ONE? MAKE NO MISTAKE, ARISTOTLE WAS A SHADY AND NEFARIOUS BASTARD, AND HE WOULD GO TO ANY LENGTHS TO GET WHAT HE WANTED.
THE FACT THAT YOU GUYS ARE TOO BLINDED BY THE PRO-ARISTOTLE ESTABLISHMENT'S PROPAGANDA TO SEE WHAT'S RIGHT INFRONT OF YOUR EYES IS HONESTLY PISSING ME THE FUCK OFF. READ THE FUCKING SOURCES YOU FUCKING FAGGOTY ASS PSEUDS OR JUST DO THE WORLD A FAVOUR AND KYS YOU FUCKING ARISTOTLE SHILLS.

>>20515933
The trinity is complete.
Guenonfag
F. Gardener
And now the misophist

>>20515933
Give 1 (one) more example of Aristotle's nefariousness, please.

OP got filtered

>>20515933
I mean, the fact that everyone wanted to snuff that fag isn't a hint to you that he had it coming?

Imagine getting this mad at philosophy

>>20515678
The Christian God is literally what Plato theorized. Not the Jewish God. The logos of the universe, the highest good and truth, these concepts were highly influential to Christian beliefs.

>>20507162
this is embarrassing

>>20516249
>The Catholic God
Ftfy mate

Why is OP mad at ideas ?

>>20516249
>>20516358
The True God, you mean?

>>20507290
>proves the existence of the afterlife
didn't they believe in Hades? both the god and the place?

>>20507162
The Republic is not supposed to be an instruction manual

>>20507162
Go away, Friedrich

>>20507162
Why does Socrates look like a NTR ugly bastard?

>>20507162
oh my god...they were power-hungry bolshevik assholes all along?

The antifa progressives of their day. Both Mao and AOC would be proud of what criteas did.

I like to think Socrates felt deep responsibility and guilt for Criteas and what happened to Greece. I read the apology as a man who was suicidal. He went to the courthouse voluntarily. He drank the hemlock voluntarily. (((History))) interpreted this as him standing for a cause, but I think he was just tired of life and wanted to be punished. Even the persians were disgusted at the shit show Greece had become....

>>20516984
Tell that to Khomenei

>>20507334
He should have had his anus "subverted" for that funny business