/lit/ - Literature

>>20490643
Too many people and a way different economy

consequences of democratization of knowledge. to get to the point where anyone can be an intelectual, you have to lower the standard.

Free College faggotry and "inclusivity" instead of gatekeeping and elitism. We really need to stop subsidising academia. FUCK THEM. They should have to prove their worth to us.

stupid frogposter.

All these massive copes, we know exactly what happened, total anglo-american victory that's what fucking happened, we are ruled over by a freemasonic capitalist hegemon whose spiritual foundation is an attack against faustian culture, barbarians OP, we are ruled over by barbarians

>>20490713
Noo, what can we do about it bros?

>>20490643
>speak fluent latin, ancient greek, french and german
Only one language to go. I hope ancient greek is great.

no you didn't

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_inflation

What's with saying (pbuh) at the end of a sentence? What are you onto now you sneaky faggots?

We found more useful things to study than dead languages.

The old money WASP elite created institutions to cement its control (the letter agencies, public opinion manipulation orgs, strategy thinktanks for business to control culture and consensus through control of elite education, etc.), but these organs quickly became a leviathan that got away from the old elite and became "for hire" and joined with its equivalents in other European countries, and the whole mess became a free-floating polycentric polycratic technocratic machine that ends up controlling and shaping the people who think they control it (the origins of Peter Dale Scott's "deep state").

The deep state leviathan has no center, unlike in the old days where international finance picked one or several centers like London and New York, it can easily relocate because its essence is "mobility," the entire oligarch class associated with it prides itself on being "liquid," having attended college in three different urban hotspots and worked in three others. The leviathan is still residually white and Jewish, but it is increasingly replacing these legacy components with interchangeable ethnics from other continents. This mixture of races is actually better from the system's standpoint, because it further severs the new elites from their traditional, patriarchal elite origins.

Old WASP money may have residual affection for and thus memory of its patriarchal and parochial bases, but a mixed bag of Latin American oligarchs, Indian oligarchs, Southeast Asian oligarchs, and Chinese oligarchs all have one thing in common: they are desperate to get OUT of their "provincial" home base nations, where they were merely "second order" elites. For example if they are Eastern European, they probably have family backgrounds as apparatchiks in the local corrupt communist parties prior to the collapse of the USSR, and then transitioned to crony capitalism in the '90s and '00s. These people are desperate to escape this provincial status, they don't want to be the richest crony capitalist in Bulgaria, they want to live in London and turn their ill-gotten Bulgarian assets into liquid capital they never have to think about again. In the process, they become as liquid as their capital. Like their capital, their one distinguishing feature is now that they are owners of capital, not that they are Bulgarian owners of Bulgarian capital. This is far superior to the old Anglo-American-Jewish elite, from the system's perspective, because they are less likely to have any "regressive" (again from the system's perspective) tendencies to maintain their own roots or "irrationally" channel their capital back towards those roots (e.g. by residing in and developing Bulgaria).

>>20490792
The Jews being rootless and homeless were formerly the most potent vector of this kind of total deracination, but even they have residual and regressive tendencies toward racination, having dwelled in their diaspora enclaves for so long, and having a persistent tendency to envy the WASP elites and to try to integrate with them through intermarriage and imitation. The new brown and off-brown international elite of people whose background is not any particular form of diversity but simple the abstract notion "diverse" is the logical next step.

These people also come from countries with less "memory," which in this context means less connection to old European values. Again, the WASPs and Jews tend to have surprisingly high levels of regressive traits (again from the system's perspective), like sincere religiosity, ethnic fellow-feeling, the aforementioned parochialism and provincialism, unprofitable (because actually efficacious) forms of social progressivism instead of just hollow and vague progressive ideology, etc. For every two or three useful apparatchiks the system obtains from a Jewish or WASP family, it will often get a regressive individual as well. For example the ACLU held out for a long time as a bulwark of free speech because there were enough residual people with cultural memories of the European liberal project, enough people who still took that project "too" seriously (from the system's perspective) instead of using it as propaganda when convenient but otherwise disregarding it. Until quite recently many government and educational institutions have been filled with a significant fraction of people who would, e.g., defend the original spirit of academic tenure for someone with unpopular views, or defend traditional conceptions of union power.

It's far better to have a class of people who, as above, want to "escape" being Indian, being Singaporean, being Chinese, by being generically international, and who have no memory of "Europeanness" beyond the generic memory of generic colonialism instilled in them by internationalist elite education, which harnesses their latent inferiority complexes and wounded pride. Historically these were powerful drives toward national self-assertion, but now all the elites who would normally be drawn into the development of their nation as against the old domineering metropole (Europe) are drawn into the international class, drawn to European capitals where their parents' money (gotten by fleecing their own people) will provide them with a lavish, generically metropolitan and cosmopolitan lifestyle while they learn to speak international and managerial.

>>20490643
Everything is translated into English. There's no intrinsic value in studying French, German, Latin, and Ancient Greek except to read poetry.

>>20490713
Anglo-American culture IS Faustian culture

>>20490798
"Europe" to this new elite has no residual and sentimental positive connotations as it does for old European globalist elites. There is thus no need for lingering confusion about how the new, international, global "liberal" order relates to the old European philosophies of actual liberalism. There is no need to take classes on the ambivalent legacy of the French Revolution, or to understand why liberalism and nationalism were conjoined world-historical forces. Everything can be delivered to the new managerial class, in generic classrooms on generic campuses in generic megacities, ahistorically, as the perennial truth of globalism.

The universities, the culture of elite education, scholarship, etc., all these things were already absorbed by the WASP-Jew variant of the deep state leviathan in the 20th century. WASP concerns always dominated the universities, and Jews conformed to WASP concerns out of gentile envy. The universities and academia were already dying in the '60s as the transition to a post-WASP, internationalist orientation took place. All we are seeing now is the final, actual death rattle, which only seems more violent and disturbing than the long period of decline and decay when you look on it from insufficient distance. "Scholarship" was only a real thing as long as the WASPs "regressively" maintained it as an autonomous, parochial priority. And as they were diluted as a class, their ability to understand, delimit a space for, and maintain the standards of "scholarship" was also diluted. Now that they are dead or outnumbered, there is no reason for the system to keep servicing what is, from the system's perspective, this irrelevant and irrational distraction. "Scholarly standards" and "academic integrity" are as real from the perspective of the deep state and its multicolored servitors as Chinese classical calligraphy is. Its husk can be maintained insofar as it can be sold at street fairs or in boutiques to multicolored servitors.

>WASP

>>20490675
Or subsidize it to take out of the hands of the plebs. Not like a lot of people actually like the process of college itself, so why force people who just want to be working class to go anyway

>>20490735
>fluent latin
magnum habeo dubium te verum dicere

>>20490643
Actually only 2-3 of your list. No one even then spoke Greek, they read it. Only specialized scholars would learn German fluently.

Yeah now you just have to know English and German and Chinese. Waaah they got rid of muh meds!!

You're probably a monolingual mutt. Go outside

>>20490804
Now apply the same pattern of decline you have picked up on to the rise of the WASPs in the first place. They were the original transnational mercantile power that took the power away from the scholars of Germany, Italy, France, and the rest of the continent.

>>20490944
and you probably only learned english because you were forced to and not out of any genuine desire to learn a foreign language

>>20490968
>The question of the role of world Jewry is not a racial question, but the metaphysical question about the kind of humanity that, without any restraints, can take over the uprooting of all beings from being as its world-historical 'task.'
Martin Heidegger

>The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew.
>The chimerical nationality of the Jew is the nationality of the merchant, of the man of money in general.
>Bourgeois society continuously produces the Jew from its own innards.
Karl Marx

>Money is the god of our time, and Rothschild is his prophet.
Heinrich Heine

>>20490792
>>20490798
>>20490804
>>20490968
Meds. Now.

>>20490969
Few non anglo countries force fluent English on anyone. You’re only “forced” to learn it if you want to go on English internet and consoom English media

>>20490969
I speak five languages. Alors, vai a farti fottere

>>20490791
retard

>>20490643
>100 years ago you had to speak fluent latin, ancient greek, french and german at minimum to even begin to be considered a serious intellectual.
no you didn't. 100 years ago was 1922.
if you had said 200 or 300 years ago you might have had a point.
>Now you can graduate from prestigious universities barely knowing your native language.
no you can't.

>>20490643
>Now you can graduate from prestigious universities barely knowing your native language.
No you can't. All this woke postmodern decolonialist academic literature almost entirely composed of mangled bastardizations of Greco-Latin roots
>a priori queering of postanalytic meta-intersubjectivist objectification of crypto-patriarchal edifices pro contra the hermeneutical arnarcho neo-cis-feminisit sociological framework precipitates a semiotophallic intercourse of administrative ahedonia Sine qua non circumfrentially endowed mellenated reginas (re: Lizzo)
It still the exact same elites, using the exact same language

>>20491006
>Alors, vai a farti fottere
incredibile, puoi parlare la seconda lingua europea più semplice oltre allo spagnolo

>>20491084
I bet you don't even begin to comprehend Spanish grammar. English has such an easy grammar that Americans will forever have a difficulty learning anything else.

>>20490675
community college homework due tomorrow anon

>>20490643
Off topic. But here anyway.
https://youtu.be/SUe3ETGHAI4

>>20491136
this post has like 5 grammar mistakes in it on top of being weirdly phrased

>>20490643
In the past, mostly the upper classes would recieve formal education. Nowadays, schools and universities are filled with low/middle classes' offspring. Therefore, the aim of these institutions is to provide basal knowledge to enable the masses to become productive workers for the industries.
In fact, everything now has an lower quality, because, for example, all forms of arts, in the past, were aimed at a privileged higher class with proper erudition whereas now the uneducated masses are the ones funding cinema, music, literature etc. You won't see good art now, because the ones funding it can't grasp it.
I don't know if we are to blame capitalism or democracy, but our society is completely settled to promote mediocrity and the crafts of man have lost their previous beauty.

>>20490803
retard

>>20490803
>There's no intrinsic value in studying French, German, Latin, and Ancient Greek except to read poetry.
I am not trying to project, but it is hard to believe that anybody else other than a monolingual would believe this. Learning any language completely opens another world to you.
That aside, you failed to realize that translations have been avalaible for a long time before people stopped learning these things.

>>20490643
>Now you can graduate from prestigious universities barely knowing your native language.
I don’t care at all. Why can’t you learn the same exact shit from the internet? Get a real job.

>>20490713
The still teach Latin at Eton, anon.

>>20490713
The still teach Latin and Greek at Eton, anon.

>>20490785
My brother in Christ, it's called a joke.

Catering to niggers has lowered the overall IQ and expectations. This is the only answer. Anything else is just coping.

>>20491136
>>20491176
> Smug ESL fag getting BTFO.
You love to see it.

>>20490803
>Everything is translated into English. There's no intrinsic value in studying French, German, Latin, and Ancient Greek except to read poetry.
such a closed mind, an extremely limited way of thinking

>>20490969
no one is forced to learn english, non-english speaking countries learn it to enter the globohomo workforce so they are already brainwashed by the expectation of material goods and learn english willingly. Others just learn it organically due to American predominance in global culture.

>>20491461
So you are laughing at him because he doesn't speak English like a native even though he acknowledged he was not a native English speaker? You are really grasping at straws here.

>>20490731
Embrace the Middle Kingdom only hope of the humanity, always has been.

>>20491442
Have you heard Boris Johnson speak Ancient Greek? He is Old Etonian and read Classics at Oxford.
It is not about studying to learn the languages, it is the prestige of having studied.
Ultimately it is good that pseudos are being kept away from the classics

>>20491084
It is low key impressive, if you know how to properly code switch between those. On the other hand make way for pic related.

>>20492392
We are forced to learn English, you cannot enter university if you don't pass final exam in one living foreign language, furthermore in order to finish gymnasium, only way to enter uni you have to pass English.

At the end if you want to read anything worthwhile you would have to learn foreign language as native language is only spoken only by 2 million people so most of literature is "locked" behind foreign language knowledge.

>>20491176
>like
English is a made-up language. Imagine being native and still abusing it...

>>20490833
>magnum habeo dubium
Does this phrase occur in latin or are you anglicising?

>>20490643
Shift of power from Europe to America.

In Europe none of he cultural/economic powers (English, French, German, and perhaps Italian) were dominant enough to become the lingua franca, and Greek and Latin were maintained as important by the church.
After the world wars, the power balance got shifted to America, which managed to maintain a much more homogeneous dominance of the English language. Translations became more accepted, and as perhaps an upside to this, also became more refined.
Most new works of philosophy, but also all technical scientific texts are available in english by default. a result, you can be a highly skilled academic without 'missing out' anything.

In Europe, not being able to speak the main languages used to mean you are essentially stuck in a country not much bigger than an american state. It vastly limits your freedom. In America this is not the case, you can travel an entire continent without learning a second language. Unless you frequently travel to Europe (and even in Europe English has become the lingua franca) learning other languages does not have much practical use besides its niche use in reading books in the 'original' or showing off your fancy education. The incentives are simply not there.
The main downside to all of this of course is that speaking multiple languages gives you a richer vocabulary of nuances for thinking, and it removes the absolutism of your native tongue (Something Americans definitely tend to suffer from)

>>20490643
I dont know about barely knowing your language when finishing grad school and doctorate (certainly you dont need to have a very good grasp to get through undergrad) but I believe a lot of the point of learning all those languages for a lot of scholars was in the interest of translating works for use by other non native speakers, so it is imaginable that those scholars did a bang up job translating so many great works that we are now at the singularity where there are enough works in your native tongue to analyze and expand on to make a career out of. its the natural progression of scholarly work. I would also argue that the kind of work where you would need to know many languages (critical work of a foreign document or translation work mostly) are incredibly derivative and not what the bulk of scholarly work should be but I understand the need for low hanging fruit to keep production consistent.
tldr one can build a while career on one translated book.

>>20490643
100 years ago being an intellectual was a full-time job

>>20492484
>Dubium habere, to regard as uncertain, to doubt: “an tu dubium habebis, etiam sancte quom jurem tibi?” Plaut. Capt. 4, 2, 112: “an dubium habetis, num obficere quid vobis possit? etc.,” Sall. H. Fragm. III. 61, 8 Dietsch; cf.: “haec habere dubia, neque, etc.,” Cic. Ac. 2, 9 fin. —

https://latin.packhum.org/search?q=dubium+hab

>>20492403
He literally said English grammar is easy whilst failing to construct a proper English sentence. I think that's something worth laughing at, faggot.

>>20492441
>Have you heard Boris Johnson speak Ancient Greek? He is Old Etonian and read Classics at Oxford.
>It is not about studying to learn the languages, it is the prestige of having studied.
>Ultimately it is good that pseudos are being kept away from the classics
That's retarded. It's better to have pseuds speaking the language with a thick Anglo accent and reading the classics like Boris Johnson does than nobody caring about any of it, retard. You sound like a pseud just for saying that honestly, like you only want your own little club of extra-special persons who REALLY care about the classics and the ancient tongues to learn them. It's counter-productive to changing culture. If you care like OP says he does about the flagging standards of intellectualism, then you'd support schools teaching Latin and Greek, as they have done for hundreds of years, and the prestige and elitism that comes with our society valuing these things and considering them to be necessary for every learned person to know. Otherwise you just want to bitch about society.

>>20490643
None of that matters for STEM.

>>20490643
>what the fuck happened to the standards of education?
1. translations
2. universal education
useless thread

>>20490643
>what the fuck happened to the standards of education?
1918 and 1945 and 1963

>>20490643
Ritualism replacing critical thinking. So ends another cycle, we shall not be seeing the rebirth in our lifetimes.

>>20490792
>>20490798
Tell me what literature you have read.
I want to ascend.

>>20493040
he never said he had perfect grammar while writing, he said that Americans are at a disadvantage when learning a language because English grammar is simpler than French, Spanish, German, etc. which is why it's so easy for people all over the world to learn English to the point that they can be understood by other English speakers.

>>20490643
>tfw you have to spend 6 hours a day studying French, Spanish, Italian, Latin, Greek and German because your shitty education couldn't supply with these tools that every educated man 100+ years ago had

They became heavily commercialized.

>>20495576
Anon you don't have to study them all at once. I'll give you permission to pretend to have studied all of them as long as you study at least one and work through the classics as you go. Also it's not that bad since once you know Latin, French Spanish and Italian are all basically dialects, and if you already know English, that's half German right there. Although frankly I think you could just skip German if you really wanted.

>>20495576
Just learn to code

they weren't fluent in those languages, they just knew the basic grammar and vocabulary of them and it was completely useless anyways

>>20490804
>>20490798
>>20490792
based posts

>>20490804
don't neglect human freedom

>>20490833
Your Latin is gothic era doggerel. I’ve never even taken a Latin course and I can tell just from the progressive stylistic distinctions in The Decline and Fall footnotes.

The descriptivists beat the prescriptivists in more ways than one, and now the latter is subversive/countercultural. At the same time, criticism pretty much ate academia alive, making it harder to impose reasonable standards of intellect again. It's all a shitshow, and I find myself starting to feel like those older adults who see society and reach for the pocket flask.

There has been a rapid increase in need for high knowledge professions in a job market that needs a high intake to stay functional. Most Universities are more stem focused than ever before, the main difference being the volume of output. Because of this universities have changed the way they teach to suit this increased demand. Naturally (and unfortunately) all aspects of the university need to switch to this model such arts and humanities degrees that don't really have an end more just a stepping stone onto further study don't really fit as well as they used to. The only solution is to increase the requirements for entry for these courses but the requirements are also derived from the same education model that they have fallen into so theres no real way out. You could say "too many people are pursuing arts" and driving down the quality but really it's that the quality isn't there to begin with.

>>20490643
Stupid frogposter

>>20491176
They give the post style and a romantic flair that monolingual anglo robots lack.

>>20490643
>100 years ago you had to speak fluent latin,
Irrelevant.
>ancient greek,
Irrelevant
>french
Irrelevant
>and german
Irrelevant
>at minimum to even begin to be considered a serious intellectual.
Being considered and validated by others means you aren't an intellectual but a pseudo intellectual.
>Now you can graduate from prestigious universities barely knowing your native language.
Good.

>>20490643
Pic related is what Kierkegaard had to learn in school(school, not even university). Education has been killed and its no wonder that we don't have any good modern philosopher, poet, writer or anything. There is not even cultural movement anymore.

>>20490792
>>20490798
>>20490804
He's right, you know.

>>20490643
I mean I graduated from a pretigious university but there's probably tons of subtle "this guy is a midwit" signs all over me

>>20492572
Now it’s part-time?

>>20495975
>you already know English, that's half German
I don't know why people persist on saying this, English and German are hardly similar at all besides English ostensibly being a Germanic language (which is irrelevant really seeing as English is basically a pidgin language with some of the simplest grammar conceivable). English vocabulary is more aligned with romance languages on the whole

>>20496782
Charles Murray talks about this too. Universities' role in society changed a lot in the early 20th century and high IQ people, rather than high status people, started attending and finding mates there and getting certified for high income jobs. It's been shifting from a high status/IQ sorting function to a place where people go to get certified for high income jobs, but since that was never the original purpose the universities have been doing a bad job of it (eg look at CS programs turning out future CS professors when students and businesses really just want high level code monkeys).

>>20498574
Institutions are dying but most of the actual society has moved online. Art communities are thriving on sites like pixiv, salons have moved to forums like 4chan (and annoyingly r****t). Posers and social climbers have moved to t*****r, etc. Most articles about mathematics are already posted online outside the "journal" system and eventually all science articles will do the same as the replication crisis continues to decimate the value of all the big scientific journals.

>>20490833
>>20492484
>>20492580
I’m fairly confident that it should be ‘magnum dubium habeo’, since ‘magnum’ would go right before the word it modifies.

>>20499785
Latin is more liberal with its word order. Your rendering certainly seems a little bit more clear.

>>20495556
And, he's wrong.

>>20499785
>‘magnum’ would go right before the word it modifies
It can be placed before or after it.

The result of being creative enough to actualize depth in whatever field thanks to the spread of transportation technologies, or what have you in regards to the accessible.

>>20490792
>>20490798
>>20490804
phenomenal effortpost anon, I'd read your book

>>20499966
>>20501339
As I understand it one of the few hard and fast rules with Latin word order is that most adjectives need to be placed right after the noun they modify, with ‘magnus/a/um’ being one of the few that qould go before.

>>20490785
piece be upon him, posted by guenonfags since like 2017

>>20490643
10 hours of mandatory gay sex mantra meditation and opioid appreciation pop quiz with ads at gas stations and carpool radio normie

>>20495975
Why skipping German? Genuinely interested, I'm learning latin now, but I have always had an interest in German philosophy, is it not worth it to learn German for that?

>>20501883
Nope, you can actually put the adjective wherever you want in the sentence, as long as it agrees with the noun it's describing (case, gender, number). There are conventions, but conventions =/= rules.

>>20490803
>There's no intrinsic value in studying French, German, Latin, and Ancient Greek
a monolingual will never understand. Your brain is not capable of comprehending it.

>>20502295
As someone learning Latin, French, Russian and German at the same time, all of those language have enough literature to make any of them worth it.

>>20490804
finally. some good fucking posts

>>20493116
>translations
Anon, translations have existed for centuries, it it not a modern thing.

>100 years ago is rome
>mmmm yummy Mercury is medicine!
You could speak languages but your grasp of reality would likely have been tottaly infantile.

>>20502609
no u
u couldn't even figure out where to put the eternal city because modern retards don't know how to read bird sign.

>>20490713
Equating "freemasonic capitalist hegemon" with barbarians in the classical sense is retarded. Barbarians are polytheistic and wild, these people are technocratic monotheistic occultists.

>>20490643
>100 years ago
>schoolkids were fluent in french and latin by age 12
>now
>forcefed spanish classes from k-12
>come out speaking not one word of spanish

>>20503941
100 years ago the average IQ of a schoolchild was well over 100, possibly as much as 110. Today the average IQ of a schoolchild is well under 100, possibly as low as 90. Putting stupid children into the same schools as smart children is a huge mistake.

>>20504369
spicy take on integration.

>>20491015
Kids in elementary schools that mattered started learning the aforementioned languages. The practice started to stop about 100 years ago.