/lit/ - Literature

Just go to Christian threads on /lit/. Its full of larpers.

>>20484057
Try "Thus Spake Zarathustra." It's no longer possible to believe in god, but people don't want to let abandon this belief, for obvious reasons.

Ordinary people with no definite religious convictions can instinctively smell the evil and bankruptcy of the secular liberal worldview and are rebelling against it piecemeal by expressing their desire for religiosity in the abstract.

Secularism is mainstream now, so pretending to be religious is the new edgy contrarianism.

>>20484057
It's likely counterculture and a growing opposition to soulless secular society. For a lot of people that aren't culturally Christian(like me), it's unavoidably cringe in the same way that it is when anyone in the modern age tries to become "a pagan" even if they really believe in tree spirits and hammerman.

>>20484057
>Larp larp larp
Why do zoomers love using this word? Are they so irony poisoned that they can’t understand why people are religious?
Here are just a few figures I’ve seen described as “larpers” on our very own Irish basket weaving forum:
>Constantine
>St. Benedict
>St. Boniface
>Muhammad
>Buddha
>Ali

>>20484103
newfag

>>20484103
Zoomers were raised in an environment where anything outside the mainstream lukewarm spiritualism is extremism, immature, or "larping." They're taught not to have strong feeling or beliefs in anything but the current thing(or opposite of current thing).

You guys are my brothers in Christ no cap

You mean the cultural void of white America ? Not sure that needs a whole book.

>>20484057
It's the same mentality as when a teenager becomes Goth in rebellion against their straight laced suburban parents.
Modern consumer culture is horrible, soulless and unsatisfying, people want to break free, rebel against it and find something better.
They look around and it occurs to them that traditional Christianity is the exact opposite of the dominant globohomo culture. So, like a Goth kid buying all black clothes, they adopt the Christian identity.
Deep down most of them probably know that it's all nonsense but they hate (and rightly so) the degenerate global consumer culture so much they can't see other options.

>>20484057
Who told you that they're larpers? How do you know that they're secret atheists who secretly watch porn and don't go to church? Is there anything that tells you this or are you just another retarded gayfer making another gay thread on this board?

>>20484057
you dont need a book to understand such a basic concept.
look into what counter culture is.
retard

>>20484057
>Clearly though these people are deep down atheists who are either larping for fun or trying desperately to convince themselves that they are religious.
How do you actually know this is true?

>despite their clear lack of understanding or knowledge
This sort of thing can occur with true believers as well as 'larpers'.

>>20484163
>How do you know that they're secret atheists who secretly watch porn and don't go to church?
Because they say that they are. We're talking about people who e-converted to Russian Orthodoxy because of playing EUIV, anon.

>>20484559
These people don’t exist

>>20484578
Yeah they were CK2 players. EU3/4 isn't trad enough, set entirely after the crusades.

>>20484559
I'm willing to bet most don't go to church and try to fit the idea of the church being all around and within by way of the Holy Spirit, yet will shitpost endlessly about heretical movements like Gnosticism and Bogomilism

>>20484584
Ok I hate Paradox fags too but let’s not act like there’s a sizable number of people converting to Russian Orthodoxy because of ck2.

>>20484610
Have you seen /lit/?

>>20484610
>>20484578
You started coming to 4chan sometime after 2020.

>>20484596
This isn't really the case. The Church can't be all around and everywhere because of the Holy Spirit because it has to exist as an institution. They worship the Institution of the Church, they don't view it as a mystical body, it's very real and very material. It fulfills a savior role. If we stay true to the Teachings, the Church will come to our rescue.

Again, most of /lit/ wasn't here before 2016, but those who were remember the Plan Trusting regarding Cardinal Sarah, and how he was going to cast out the devilish Bergoglio when he won the Election.

>>20484610
You're right it must simply be due to the enduring popularity of Byzantine Studies

>>20484057
>Clearly though these people are deep down atheists who are either larping for fun or trying desperately to convince themselves that they are religious.
Can somebody explain to me why these annoying ex-hipster secularists are aping boomer arguments about atheism and irreligion in 2002+20?

>>20484626
This is the gayest thing I’ve ever seen, fuck off.
t. Greek

>>20484559
go back to your epic political compass subreddit
>inb4 how do you know inb4 you go back
because my brother sends me their cancer zoomer memes from time to time

>>20484057
I have a pretty small sample size, but some people in my social circles that were atheist/agnostic previously and then became weirdly religious. Every time it was after a period of drug addiction or alcoholism where they trashed all/most of their relationships and did fucked up things. It creeps me out. It’s like a psychotics break. I was talking to one of their moms and out of nowhere she just said “[name]’s on another planet; he’s not with us anymore” (the mother is religious, so it wasn’t the religion itself). It seems like some kind of final stage of becoming a broken person.
(Lifelong religious people I know are all normal).
Pic related?

>>20484645
that's called being born-again, it's not a new thing, and it's a normal human response to hitting rock bottom

>>20484626
I’m now a Turcophile just because it will piss off whoever made this

>>20484613
They're people who already agree with the basic ideas of orthodoxy. Very rough around the edges but ripe for conversion, like all initiates. It's equivalent to inner city blacks larping as muslims yet acting nothing like them, but once an imam contacts them they make a genuine conversion.
All mass cultural movements have the strange infant years.

>>20484655
They don’t go to church, nor do they follow their denomination tenets.

>>20484647
They may as well have died. It would be less unnerving. It’s like they’re being skinwalked.

>>20484623
Tradlarping has died off a fair bit since Trump lost, it was a short-lived thing.

>Plan Trusting regarding Cardinal Sarah, and how he was going to cast out the devilish Bergoglio when he won the Election.
Catholic Plan Trusters have been rekt hard by Traditionis Custodes. The Cardinal Sarah hype, Dubia hype, Vigano hype, all for nothing.

>>20484661
Did you even read the post?

>>20484662
>They may as well have died. It would be less unnerving
according 100% to your superficial civic-society standards and expectations, you yuppie psycho
Anyways it seems to me like the drugs and alcohol are the problem there

I hate normalfags so much it's unreal.
Love from Kazakhstan.

>>20484666
>Tradlarping has died off a fair bit since Trump lost
Because some of the people doing it got siphoned off to Q, sure, but it's still there.

>>20484057
>What are some books to explain the rise of “religious” larpers in the modern age?
They're not religious, they're larpers trying to be cool on /lit/ of all places.

>>20484681
I suspect there was more siphoning-off into Guenonposting on here, at least.

how can you know they are a larper if you don't talk to them about their beliefs instead of swerving to talking second-handedly about them like gossip?

>>20484108
kys

>>20484690
You know it when you see it. It's more obvious on Twitter where similar larpers have twitter accounts with anime avatars from ecchi anime

>>20484645
I don’t understand. Wouldn’t your friend’s mom take back her son now that he’s converted and presumably repented?

>>20484057
I'll give you an unusual rec. It's Baudrillard's System of Objects, an earlier work in which he goes off the rails analyzing a French furniture catalogue. In short, different materials or styles used in decor express different values... someone who likes wood furniture vs someone who likes laminate furniture vs someone who likes metal/plastic. See where this is going? What do all the ortholarpers want to say about themselves by collecting their Funko Icons and books by that ur-larper from San Francisco? They've latched on to the most antique version of Christianity they can find to adorn themselves with.

>>20484681
go back! go back!

>>20484698
They’re religious devotion is only skin-deep, if at that.

>>20484559
Most people I know have been baptized as an infant, received the Eucharist, have been confirmed, and have even regularly attended church when they were younger. Are they considered larpers if they “re-discover” their faith after a period of questioning and uncertainty or are they just born again Christians?

>>20484057
part of it is people searching for an aesthetic identity, like other more mundane subcultures, but maybe with more of a contrarian streak.
another part of it is people who aren't actually larping. many people, especially men and especially people going through tough times, need meaning in their lives, so they're becoming religious in the depressing time we live in when material prosperity is dwindling away compared to the boomer generation.

>>20484057
Contrarianism.

>tfw you remember when this board was pro-gay marriage during the Bush years

>>20484746
why are you lying on the internet?

>>20484756
back then people believed arguments like "gay people are normal just like you and me" and "who cares what happens in the privacy of someone's bedroom". both of those arguments fell apart as it became clear that gay people are disgusting freaks who do degenerate shit in the streets and openly want to groom kids to be like them. context changes.

>>20484756
you are implicitly supporting the contrarianism that benefited you while trying to shit on the modern stuff just for being contrarian

>>20484757
I’m not lying. I have a ton of friends who were raised Christian but are no longer practicing. Is that so hard to believe?

And speaking of contrarianism I was a paradox-tier larper circa 2013 and confirmed I'm not contrarian by going back to my crappy middle eastern country and honestly enjoying myself
Irony-poisoning might seem benign but it rots a person to the core

>>20484746
that would be fine in itself but thats not exactly a good summation of the larp
the larp is some orthdog or catho pseudo-nationalism owning the libs

>>20484782
yeah actually. thats the point of the whole "christians are the most oppressed race" thing you guys do.

>>20484778
Being contrarian by saying that the gays should get married in 2005 is a lot less silly than being contrarian in 2022 by pretending to be religious so that you can gain some sense of superiority over women and trannies.

>>20484061
its possible, just takes years of study and meditation plus experiencing real life in ways that convince you of the existence of divinity. but most e larpers do none of these, and merely try to imitate

>>20484812
it's really just about as silly because at the end of the day you're a shallow westerner pretending to care about deeper shit when you could be off doing hedonism while it lasts
not like gays needed anybody's permission to have sex and cohabitate in fucking 2005

>>20484061
>It's no longer possible to believe in god
>t. brainlet

>>20484834
>when you could be off doing hedonism while it lasts
what a sad existence you live

>>20484849
you live in consumer investment capitalism, meaning that unless you belong to a sect like the amish or are a real community member in a shrinking mainstream religious group, there is nothing you can really do in an actualized way beyond consumption
oh yeah you could also join a narcissistic larp like the subject of this thread or any politically involved leftist, I suppose

>>20484103
>Muhammad Ali was a larper

>>20484846
Perhaps you are overly "rational," believing in what isn't there, because your senses are too dull to appreciate what is

>>20484861
maybe you live in sodom getting fucked up the ass "because it just feels good bruh", doesnt mean everyone does. examine your life and whether the empty hedonism you live is really going anywhere.

>>20484796
I have no clue what you’re talking about.

>>20484933
he has a point that realistically you should accept a degree of the hedonism in such a society, otherwise you might just go insane. either that or join the amish or a third world monastery or something. but if you're here it's healthier to accept some of the consumerism and enjoy the sex etc while perhaps maintaining a balance of spiritual practice

>>20484933
>whether the empty hedonism you live is really going anywhere
it's on the up and up, because anyone nominally opposed to it still values their bread and circuses too much to actually risk getting marked a dissident
you are exactly the same as pic related and I look forward to seeing where this goes

>>20484061
Neech literally BTFOs atheists in TSZ
>yeah bro god doesn't exist but reincarnation TOTALLY DOES BECAUSE I SAY IT DOES AND IT MAKES ME FEEL OPTIMISTIC

>>20484127
Smartest thing said in theis thread.

>>20484956
you'd better be good at doublethink then

>>20484103
>>20484633
Zoomers really are an echo of generation x. They can't imagine anyone holding sincere convictions on a level greater than shitposting.

>>20484061
>It's no longer possible to believe in god
Says who? Some terminally online nihilist who has to create elaborate rationalizations for why people think differently than him?

>>20484973
conversely, if you, as a zoomer, tell a gen x that they participated in the modern rot, they will immediately have a zoomer-tier mental breakdown from the mildest level trolling
I like to semi-accurately troll as a zoomer who blames his parents for fucking up his life and the cope is always off the charts

>>20484892
No he wasn't, that was the other poster's point.

>>20484973
What are you talking about? It’s always been young extremists to bring about chance and radically change the status quo. Why do you think many people are afraid of the idea of “selling out” or losing faith in their beliefs when they’re older?

>>20485001
What "change" has anypost war generation brought about that wasn't simply following programming from the media or social engineers? Everything from the Hippie movement to homosexuality was pushed by the schools and the glowies.

>>20484057
It’s literally just counter culture. They just hate homosexuals and blacks and the common age and they think calling themselves Christian identifies them more with counterculture (like the satanism rock movement). It’s literally just a sort of “ideology branding” they don’t see religion as an actual way of life or universal law

>>20484956
>you should accept a degree of the hedonism in such a society
That's right, goy. It's only a little, it;s not hurting anybody.

>>20485001
>It’s always been young extremists to bring about chance and radically change the status quo
Show me a single advanced society that was taken over and redirected by young people. Disney movies don't count.

>>20484103
Calling them larpers is shizo but you can’t pretend everyone on here is actually true to their word. Half the outspoken Christians on the net haven’t even read the Bible

>>20484596
>Bogomilism
Bogo bingo dingo boga! What a silly name!

Midwits who define themselves entirely by politics and memes cannot fathom anybody holding any beliefs that aren't defined by or a reatction to the current thing, so to feel smart they come up with some pat answer and frame others going back to the beliefs of their family and nation as a "counter culture" because that's all they understand. Look at this thread, for example.

This site is retarded and worthless, and I'm tired of pretending that it's not.

>>20484655
>Whites larp as Jews
>Blacks larp as Arabs

>>20485016
>>20485024
You’re missing the point of what I’m trying to say: young people tend to be the most radical and willing to change things up (for good or for worse). Obviously there are those who post on Twitter about racism and call it a day, but generally speaking, you’ll find more extremists among young people than old people.

>>20485045
You lack nuance and reading between the lines!

>>20485058
>nuance
>on 4chan
I don't think I'm missing much.

>>20484984
>Says who?
friedrich nietzsche

>>20485095
>Some fag who LARPed as a Polish jew and went crazy
Cool, anyway...

>>20484057

The writings of Fr. Seraphim Rose, especially his personal letters here -> https://thoughtsintrusive.wordpress.com/letters-of-fr-seraphim-rose-1961-1982/.. ctrl+f some keywords, like "outward", "externals", "Anti-Christ", "convert" and such. There are other articles in Orthodox Word he published about this, but I can't think of how to link to them at the moment.

He touches on the phenomena of LARPing, especially among clergy. Some LARPers are attracted to him, because he warns about liberalism, globalism, ecumenism, and syncretism, but they ignore the equally scathing warnings he gives of being a trad LARPer, and him and others in his lineage make it clear that the Anti-Christ will not be a liberal - the Anti-Christ will be everything the Trad LARPers are clamouring for.

Religious LARPing isn't exclusive to converts, either - most people raised in religious faiths are LARPing and going through the motions, since they're just fed to the corporate wolves. Most cradle believers end up thinking that their faith is just an ethnic, political thing, and so will support their Churchs structure without caring at all about the holy ascetics and elders who prove that all this politics is vain. So, for both converts, and those raised in the faith, they are exposed to a world where everyone's default mode of operation is politicised, social media, appearance and "optics" centred, where your faith means nothing unless you can make an outward show of it, since that's just what the worldly culture is.

>Is there a deeper crying out for God hidden in their sad and self-deluded cries for attention?

Yes, you are right here - but the problem is that most of these people are spiritual cripples, and are not able to actually turn away from superficial LARPing, virtue signalling, and piety signalling yet. Their desire to believe the truth and to reject evil is there, but their desire to actually repent and become entirely different to the world is lacking, due to being raised a spiritual cripple in this day and age.

>Is it a countercultural trend, a reaction to the overall atheistic strain in modern culture?

Yes, that's also part of it - since people are seeing the end conclusions of atheism (that, if there is no God, anything at all is permitted and possible, with no limits at all - if there is no God, then transgenderism, prepubescent drag queens, forced v...nations, etc are all permitted), but LARPers aren't seeing their LARP for the crypto-atheism it is, yet. They're trying to use the truth as a bludgeon to force the world to conform to what they want - not to change themselves in conformity to the eternal Truth, Christ.

That's just a phase of growth that a lot of people have to go through. Most unfortunately get stuck there - but for many people it's just a phase they have to grow through.

the concept of personal strength of any variety has been refuted for decades, and spirituality has been a joke for centuries
all that matters is how much fun you have, and how easily
delusional larpers and redhats will try to refute this based on "you have to be a good and pious person because... you.. YOU JUST HAVE TO OK??"

>>20484103
I’ve seen emperor Julian described as the first larper on here

>>20485132
>
Yes, that's also part of it - since people are seeing the end conclusions of atheism (that, if there is no God, anything at all is permitted and possible, with no limits at all - if there is no God, then transgenderism, prepubescent drag queens, forced v...nations, etc are all permitted), but LARPers aren't seeing their LARP for the crypto-atheism it is, yet.
Why do you have to permit any of those things if you're an atheist? With enough power, you can promote or forbid anything you want.

>>20485132
Abrahamic religions are just not tenable. The idea that irrelevant groups of Semitic tribes had direct and private access to God is asinine. If anything, the modern era should show people that all Abrahamists worship is an evil principle, just in different forms. In fact, Islam and Christianity may have been deliberately constructed by Jews with most of human historical chronology being fabricated or distorted. People should go back to the Pre-Socratics to see just how much more integrity they had compared to Semites.
There is something like God, but Abrahamists are worshiping an evil god and misconstruing that as God. The more you think deeply about this, the more you'll admit there may be some truth to the idea of something like reptilians, which had a large presence in Egypt and the Levant before moving into the British royal family.

>>20485187
>British royal family.
Black nobility*

>>20484061
>It's no longer possible to believe in god
Can you elaborate? I haven't read TSZ but i find this statement extremely interesting

>>20485187
>Abrahamic religions are just not tenable
and that's why they have billions of adherents and the pre-socratics are mainly even known to have existed on niche imageboards for faggots with ego problems

>>20484057
Nobody has posted Oswald Spengler? Come on.

>In this very century, I prophesy, the century of scientific-critical Alexandrianism, of the great harvests, of the final formulations, a new element of inwardness will arise to overthrow the will-to-victory of science. The individual renounces science by laying aside books. The Culture renounces by ceasing to manifest itself in high scientific intellects. But science exists only in the living thought of great savant-generations, and books are nothing if they are not living and effective in men worthy of them. Scientific results are merely items of an intellectual tradition. It constitutes the death of a science that no one any longer regards it as an event, and an orgy of two centuries of exact scientificness brings satiety. Not the individual, the soul of the Culture itself has had enough, and it expresses this by putting into the field of the day ever smaller, narrower and more unfruitful investigators.

>This next phase I call the Second Religiousness. It appears in all Civilizations as soon as they have fully formed themselves as such and are beginning to pass, slowly and imperceptibly, into the non-historical state in which time-periods cease to mean anything. The material of the Second Religiousness is simply that of the first, genuine, young religiousness - only otherwise experienced and expressed. It starts, with Rationalism's fading out in helplessness, then the forms of the Springtime become visible, and finally the whole world of the primitive religion, which had receded before the grand forms of the early faith, returns to the foreground, powerful, in the guise of the popular syncretism that is to be found in every Culture at this phase.

>Every "Age of Enlightenment" proceeds from an unlimited optimism of the reason - always associated with the type of the megalopolitan - to an equally unqualified scepticism. The sovereign waking-consciousness, cut off by walls and artificialities from living nature and the land about it and under it, cognises nothing outside itself. It applies criticism to its imaginary world, which it has cleared of everyday sense-experience, and continues to do so till it has found the last and subtlest result, the form of the form - itself: namely, nothing. With this the possibilities of physics as a critical mode of world-understanding are exhausted, and the hunger for metaphysics presents itself afresh. But it is not the religious pastimes of educated and literature-soaked cliques, still less is it the intellect, that gives rise to the Second Religiousness. Its source is the naive belief that arises, unremarked but spontaneous, among the masses that there is some sort of mystic constitution of actuality (as to which formal proofs are presently regarded as barren and tiresome word-jugglery), and an equally naive heart-need reverently responding to the myth with a cult.

Every year it gets worse, fuck /lit/, fuck mods and fuck YOU

>>20484645
This had been a common thing since forever. Reading accounts from the Middle Ages and early modern era, you often get stories about people who weren’t religious when young and did all kinds of improper stuff, but become extremely religious as they aged.

So there’s often people who don’t care for religion when they’re young but turn to it as they become older.

>>20485166
Any argument against something can be beat by just saying “because I’m evil/I can” there is no argument against this

>>20485181

>Why do you have to permit any of those things if you're an atheist? With enough power, you can promote or forbid anything you want.

That's exactly my point. The atheists in power happen permit these things that they want, just because they want them, and there's nothing inherent in any atheistic beliefs that could prevent it, if the atheist was sufficiently motivated and empowered to enforce it.

In the atheist scheme of things, fighting over what is or isn't permitted, is purely a power struggle - which is the entire thesis of postmodernism, and why they force education on class/race/gender "power dynamics", to inspire people with implicit cultural, or even raw physical power, to voluntarily give up their power to postmodernists and their agendas.

The only thing consistent here is the method, since the method is "How do I force the world to conform to what I want?" and actual foundational beliefs, of what is actually true, are considered secondary details.

>>20485197
>and that's why they have billions of adherents
Most people are retarded. Having the masses follow your ideology means nothing. The masses believe in globohomo. Does that mean it's right?
You're resorting to the worst argument, appealing to the masses.
>the pre-socratics are mainly even known
They're known by most philosophy academics, ESL.
>to have existed on niche imageboards for faggots with ego problems
What the hell are you talking about? Plenty of serious academic writings have been done for the Pre-Socratics. Also, why would promoting them over Semites make me an edgelord?
You're probably a J*w.

>>20485176
Well he could be considered the first "neopagan," as he was raised Christian. But if he is to faulted as insincere for converting from theism to theism, how much more insincere must be those who convert from atheism to theism!

>>20485211
>In the atheist scheme of things, fighting over what is or isn't permitted, is purely a power struggle - which is the entire thesis of postmodernism, and why they force education on class/race/gender "power dynamics", to inspire people with implicit cultural, or even raw physical power, to voluntarily give up their power to postmodernists and their agendas.
>The only thing consistent here is the method, since the method is "How do I force the world to conform to what I want?" and actual foundational beliefs, of what is actually true, are considered secondary details.
Practical "postmodernism" as religious conservatives describe it amounts to tactical skepticism used to advance what are essentially Christian values (extension of Christian compassion towards gays etc.)

>>20484057
The spirit of faith has been largely lost in the modern times. People attempt to grasp a facsimile of it to feel a sense of meaning or connectedness in their lives, but it contradicts their environment and preexisting programming too much to become genuine and natural

>>20485187

> The idea that irrelevant groups of Semitic tribes had direct and private access to God is asinine.

You'd only make the mistake thinking that's what "Abrahamic" religions claim, if you believe in the modern pagan myth of evolution.

What's actually claimed, is that one particular Semitic tribe *retained* faith in the one true God, since the first-made man, Adam, and out of that one tribe the Virgin Mary was born, and through her, Christ was born, as prophecied in the OT.

>In fact, Islam and Christianity may have been deliberately constructed by Jews with most of human historical chronology being fabricated or distorted.

If you're going to go schizo, at least go full schizo and try to believe everything at the same time, instead of arbitrarily picking and chosing random nonsense to believe and staying a schizlet.

>>20485211
>to inspire people with implicit cultural, or even raw physical power, to voluntarily give up their power
Yeah this used to be called feudalism when priests did it

>>20485230

>Practical "postmodernism" as religious conservatives describe it amounts to tactical skepticism used to advance what are essentially Christian values (extension of Christian compassion towards gays etc.)

Actual compassion towards gays would mean encouraging them to stop doing gay. What's promoted by postmodernists are secular values given a Christian-sounding PR job.

Well I read this post and I thought it was stupid
Saying that you need knowledge or understanding to be religious is stupid, how could you say something so ignorant?
Anyway I think people on 4chan are more likely to be far more knowledgeable about religious than the average religious person, it's just that they don't have any genuine religious feelings

>>20485235
They absolutely were deliberate constructions. All the early followers of Jesus, as well as Paul, were tribesmen, and there were Arab dynasties who had converted to that certain circumcizing religion in the centuries before Islam was produced. And Islam was immediately used to conquer Jerusalem...

>>20485235
>if you believe in the modern pagan myth of evolution.
Speciation is true. Even the Catholics admit that evolution occurs with the guiding hand of God. You're an absolute idiot if you think evolution is a pagan myth. Where did all this species diversity emerge from then? Why are new species of bacteria and more constantly being discovered? Read a couple of books on ecology and biology.
>What's actually claimed, is that one particular Semitic tribe *retained* faith in the one true God,
They didn't. All they did is steal from those surrounding them while behaving narcissistically.
>since the first-made man, Adam, and out of that one tribe the Virgin Mary was born, and through her, Christ was born, as prophecied in the OT.
There is nothing intrinsically special about the OT to make it superior to the Pre-Socratics or plenty of other mystics.
>If you're going to go schizo, at least go full schizo and try to believe everything at the same time, instead of arbitrarily picking and chosing random nonsense to believe and staying a schizlet.
I have an axe to grind with Semites, especially the Jews. I believe Jews should have been ethnically cleansed in ancient times, and I am not saying this in an edgelord way. I am saying this with a deep understanding of history and understanding of (inter)cultural evolution.

>>20485200
Fuck Spergler

>>20485243
>Actual compassion towards gays would mean encouraging them to stop doing gay. What's promoted by postmodernists are secular values given a Christian-sounding PR job.
>secular ethics
Such a dumb term, they're so obviously derived from Christianity. Christian A says they need to encourage them to stop being gay, totally-not-a-Christian B argues that they're born that way and need to be loved and accepted anyway as we're all made in the image of God.

>>20485277

>totally-not-a-Christian B argues that they're born that way and need to be loved and accepted anyway as we're all made in the image of God.

Yeah, because the idea that anyone is born gay is Anti-Christian. It's like being born a murderer. Absurd.

>>20485293
The entire conceit around gay rights discourse is that being gay is inborn therefore we must be respected or we're slouching towards Nazism. Christians would have better luck refuting the idea that gays are born that way than with whatever efforts they're currently making.

>>20485304
>therefore they
Fixed

Same is true for transexuals (this makes absolutely no logical sense, and even less sense in a Christian anthropology, and yet we still see Catholic priests doing "LGBT ministry")

>>20485057
Yeah people don’t realise this, but old people don’t cause revolutions. The Nazi party wasn’t made up of old people. Quite the opposite. The older a person was in Nazi Germany, the less likely they were to be a Nazi party member.

>>20485217
the masses don't believe in globohomo, they do in the decadent Imperial Center and even there they're not fully on board with the party line
>Plenty of serious academic writings have been done for the Pre-Socratics.
refer to the above argument and realize that your acad*mics are totally irrelevant

>>20485304

Yes, none of what you're said is in question.

The problem is that the meme was just forced that people are born gay, and now it's taken as a standard - before the meme was forced, it was just accepted that no-one was born gay, and it was up to the gays to prove it. But they had literally no proof - they just forced the meme, and regular people wanted to believe it, in order to appear compassionate, and the gays wanted to believe it so that they could have license to continue doing sodomy.

>>20485315

>yet we still see Catholic priests doing "LGBT ministry"

If you see an atheist start praying to God, you know they're not really an atheist. Same thing if you see a priest condoning LGBTQIAPTOMGWTFBBQ.

When I was an atheist, I would not take Christianity seriously if the Christian contradicted their own beliefs, especially what was in the bible. I would even talk to gay Christians, and just tell them outright that their own beliefs condemn them, and they would have to come up with all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify it - most of the time it's not justified, they just have a shallow Oprah-tier understanding of "God is love" and their understanding of love is "Just let people do whatever they want", which isn't love, it's just neglect.

>>20484626
This is what Heaven looks like

>>20485347
>the masses don't believe in globohomo, they do in the decadent Imperial Center and even there they're not fully on board with the party line
Why are you defending the masses like a slave? Most people throughout history believe in whatever predominant trends the elites engineer. Regardless, referring to the biases of the masses doesn't lead to the Truth.
>refer to the above argument and realize that your acad*mics are totally irrelevant
What does it mean to be "relevant"? To most of the real elites, we're just useless eaters, expendable fodder especially as the Fourth Industrial Revolution looms in the background.
I don't see anything special about the Abrahamic god, and it was a historical anomaly that Jews survived on this age. The Babylonians were doing the right thing exterminating the Jews until the misguided Persians intervened.
Your god is a false one. It's obvious to any honest man.

>>20484159
the fact that it preempted all of this 2000+ years ago is the very reason why you should take it as gospel

not only is it the answer during modernity, it was the answer during antiquity. it means seeing objective reality for the first time

>>20485362
>on this age
up to this age*

>>20485354
Then a majority of Catholic priests don't really believe in God as I suspect that a majority of them are gay.

>>20485362
>deranged pilpul
consider your original claim of
>Abrahamic religions are just not tenable.
which is self-evidently incorrect just looking at the state of the world.
Are you insane?

>>20485368

Yep. You now believe the same thing that faithful Catholics believe about their own priests.

>>20485187
>reads Galkovsky once

stay away from historical revisionism which makes sweeping claims

>>20485265
Oh god. It’s the Persian zorolarper who thinks they’re a pure Aryan and lives in California and is constantly seething about semites even though they probably look like one.

>>20485304

Albinos and the blind are born that way and it's not a good thing. Even if gays were born that way (very far from certain, gay gene theories have been disproven) it may not be a good thing, and gays should repress their desire to fuck men ass or lick it or finger/fist it, the same way a pyromaniac should resist the urge to set a tree on fire, or a pedophile should resist his urge of fucking a kid.

The problem post modern people have is they think "free expression of your personality" is a good thing, when it isn't. Trees need gardeners that prune branches so that it grows upright, healthy, and produces good fruit. The same happens with humans. Free expression of your personality is what creates trans wolfkin furries.

>Everyone who disagrees with me is only pretending.
Is this the only way you people can argue?

>>20485369
They're not tenable to any honest man.
>>20485383
I don't look Semitic. I look Eastern Balkan, and I can post my picture again. I don't consider myself a Zoroastrian anymore, but I am still a prophet.
>>20485382
It's probably true. Abrahamism is a mind virus that is fundamentally anti-life in its deeper theological tenets.

>>20485200
"Spengler was a faggot."
-Henri Massis

>>20485398

>Posting on 4chan
>Believes he's a prophet
>Wasting his time talking about how certain beliefs "aren't tenable" instead of boldly proclaiming his divinely revealed truth

Whatever meds you're taking, stop. They're making you act too much like a normie.

>>20485398
Just admit it and be done with it. You’re full of resentment against semites because Arabs literally conquered your people. You have that type of resentment Nietzsche describes.

>>20485398
eternal life is only anti-life if you don't believe that this current reality is the same as the one in which the "eternal life" of the abrahamic religions is supposedly promised. the misinformed view is to view this premise as existing in an "other" reality

take that as you will

>>20485428
Due to the oppression of Mazdakites, Islam actually spread due to traitorous noble houses. It wasn't actually being conquered; if you read Islamic history, most of the developers of its ideology and tenets were Persians. Even the greatest Arabic linguist was Persian and named Sibawayh. Granted, I would have preferred Hinduism or Buddhism spreading into Iran rather than Abrahamism.
Orthodox Zoroastrianism had serious issues too, which the Mazdakites were reforming.
Anyways, identity politics is retarded. My issue with Abrahamism transcends beyond race. Even if I were a Semite, I would call out its anti-life trends.
>>20485420
>Posting on 4chan
It's the only place where I can be casually antisemitic.
>Believes he's a prophet
Knows*
>Wasting his time talking about how certain beliefs "aren't tenable" instead of boldly proclaiming his divinely revealed truth
I've already written my beliefs several times.
>Whatever meds you're taking, stop.
Meds are bad and lead to functional connectivity problems in the long-term due to accumulative side-effects.
>They're making you act too much like a normie.
Wise men always come off as foolish or banal to the insipid rabble like you.

>>20485166
>breaks leg

>>20484057
Being traditional is the new counterculture. It's a reactionary response to degeneracy

> In that instant, as I stared at the gleaming fish sign and heard her words, I suddenly experienced what I later learned is called anamnesis—a Greek word meaning, literally, "loss of forgetfulness." I remembered who I was and where I was. In an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, it all came back to me. And not only could I remember it but I could see it. The girl was a secret Christian and so was I. We lived in fear of detection by the Romans. We had to communicate with cryptic signs. She had just told me all this, and it was true.

> For a short time, as hard as this is to believe or explain, I saw fading into view the black, prisonlike contours of hateful Rome. But, of much more importance, I remembered Jesus, who had just recently been with us, and had gone temporarily away, and would very soon return. My emotion was one of joy. We were secretly preparing to welcome Him back. It would not be long. And the Romans did not know. They thought He was dead, forever dead. That was our great secret, our joyous knowledge. Despite all appearances, Christ was going to return, and our delight and anticipation were boundless

>>20485384
>Trees need gardeners that prune branches so that it grows upright, healthy, and produces good fruit.
>and produces good fruit
you are creating the notion that a good tree is one that give good fruit. you are putting a tree a practicality. you are making the same to humans. even if i dont like to give credit to post-modernism. this is just true.

>>20485454

>Meds are bad and lead to functional connectivity problems in the long-term due to accumulative side-effects.

One of these problems must be reading comprehension failures, because I was literally telling you to stop taking them, moron.

>Wise men always come off as foolish or banal to the insipid rabble like you.

>Calling himself wise
>Wanting to appear wise
>If he's called out, will just say that calling himself wise makes him look foolish which then means he's wise
>I'm just playing 4D chess bro!

Stop.

>>20485504
>I was literally telling you to stop taking them, moron.
I know, but I just wanted to give information others can benefit from.
>Stop
I don't care how people perceive me or not, but I think it's ridiculous to focus more on character attacks rather than actual arguments that involve religion or mysticism, which is what this thread is about.
My claim is that Abrahamism is fundamentally untenable, inflexible, rooted in narcissistic foundation myths, and so on. I'm not as bad as the main character from Ingmar Bergman's Winter Lights because I still accept the possibility of God but just not of the Abrahamic variety. I found the main character of Winter Lights as the representation of "irresponsible atheist", which this thread talks about.

>>20484057

If mainstream society and its institutions deny that spirituality even exists, then it stands that no one raised in that society will be capable of unaided spiritual discernment. The problem is intensified by the current Western obsession with "tolerance", which leads to all religions being viewed as fundamentally similar and equally worthy of praise, regardless of their actual spiritual value.

This inability to discern genuine spirituality results in the supermarket approach the religions, where it's just a matter of picking whatever seems intellectually or emotionally appealing to you at a particular moment.

I don't think this is particularly a new phenomenon, though. Late 19th century LARPs like Theosophy, Spiritism and Anthrosophism were far more harmful and stupid than teenagers playing Orthodox Christians on Discord.

>>20485454
You will always be more genetically Semitic than Aryan or European. You hate yourself. In fact, you’re against your own life since you hate your Semitic blood. You’re anti-life.

>>20484057
are you religious? or atheist?

if you're religious, what sets you apart from the people that you claim are just faking?

>>20485548
>You will always be more genetically Semitic than Aryan or European. You hate yourself...
Actually, based on autosomal analysis, Iranian ancestry mostly goes back to people that are neither Semitic nor Aryan. They were called Iranian Neolithic farmers. Most Iranians only have ~14% Levantine Neolithic farmer, which predates Arabic invasion.
Neither Elamites nor Hurrians were Semitic speakers.
Also, I don't hate Semites, as people, outside of those who promote Abrahamism. I am claiming Kourosh/Cyrus made a mistake in freeing Jews from Babylonian captivity because it eventually led to the proliferation and spread Abrahamic bullshit.

>>20484898
You cant prove anything you see exists, not even yourself.

>>20485565
> if you're religious, what sets you apart from the people that you claim are just faking?
LARPers are easy to spot if you’re genuinely religious. They will focus on the externals of the religion to exclusion of internal spiritual life, they will focus on ridiculous and heady theological issues and miniscule things more than they ever spend time praying or going to church or reading the Bible, and they will consume a steady diet of debate-bros on Youtube.

>>20484846
yeah africa is full of christian’s, phillipines, central America, plenty of successful high iq populations follow it

>>20485820
Not to mention they disdain helping others.

>>20485836
>more than they ever spend time praying
are you a mind reader?

>going to church
fake people are just likely to go to church. Even the Bible mentions this. (""And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men")

>focus on ridiculous theological issues.
that part is pretty true, but not everyone that addresses those issues are fake.

>>>20485836
>not to mention they disdain helping others.
who should be helped? We already live in a society where gov't has instituted socialist policies, largely on the idea that this is a Christian nation.
Do we help random bums on the street that just want drug money? Are we supposed to be selective in who we help? Or just help *anyone* that asks? Even if they're ungrateful and abusive towards you before and after the help? Are these questions too theological and miniscule?

For example, i know a person who talked about how they bought dinner for a (supposedly) homeless family who were hanging outside the Taco Bell. This same person has had an abortion, fornicates, is a compulsive liar, is extremely computer savvy (and works for gov't so has all the latest tech gadgets) and used to spy on their family members. Overall nicer to strangers than their family members and friends. Does being charitable to bums wipe out and negate the other bad stuff?

>>20485978
>>20485836

>fake people are just as* likely to go to church
edited "as"

>are you a mind reader?
what i meant was, how do you know they don't pray?

>>20484103
I've Proclus and Iamblichus as well as Church Fathers described as LARPers on here for some reason

>>20485978
Christ, it’s sad that you think you’re an actual Christian.

>>20486128
i didn't actually say i was a Christian, though I could see how you'd think so.

So what about you? You're perfect I take it? Sounds like it. What's it like being perfect btw?

>>20486153
Stop seething because someone called you out.

>>20486177
but i'm genuinely curious about him (or you?). He or she sounds like a great person. How do they do it? Got any favorite Bible quotes that inspire you, that change you for the better?

>>20485978
> who should be helped?
Those in need. How is this even a question for a Christian? How about do a little less larping and go to a church

>>20486205
okay, how do you determine if someone is in need.
Anyone that asks? Do they have to look the part?

>go to church
which church? Any denomination or excluding certain ones? There's so many to choose from, are they different or basically the same?

>>20486216
This is a sad existence you live anon, trying to be something your not.

>>20484057
Best way to test if someone is actually LARPing or not in regards to Christianity is to see if they actually act in accordance to what the pedestrian doctrine of an eternal Hell logically entails

If they aren't screaming in horror, running raving mad through the streets, and trying to convert as many people as possible to their religion by any means necessary in order to avoid the inconceivably horrific fate that their deity has decreed for all unbelievers, they're likely either full of hot air or just a complete sociopath devoid of empathy

The fact that most tradLARPers would rather spend their free time sanctimoniously shitposting and calling people they disagree with slurs instead of faithfully evangelizing, I think it's obvious by their fruits that they don't really believe in any kind of traditional "fire and brimstone" brand of exclusivist Christianity; at least not in any meaningful way that has any demonstrable effect on their lives

>>20484057
Ars Vitae by Elizabeth Lasch-Quinn

>>20486216

Orthodox Church is the true Church, but you're going to have to find the lineages of the Saints within it to get something really real, like the lineage of Fr. Seraphim Rose, St Ephraim of Arizona, etc. The majority of popular bishops/priests etc. are unfortunately LARPers, as proven by their capitulation to the state overt he past few years with lockdowns.

>>20486235
it's wonderful how dedicated you are to Christ. I'm glad that you're happy with where you're at. If berating me and others helps you with where you're at right now in your walk with Christ, then have at it, dish it out. I'm happy to help. Need an emotional punching bag? Lemme help you with that :) lol

It doesn't bother me, though I admit i'm still curious to know what Bible passages inspire you.

>>20486255
>Orthodox Church is the true Church
Literally everyone says this about their church.

>>20486255
is this the guy i've been talking to? Or someone else recommending. I just want his advice, he's very dedicated and I wanna know what his dedicated response will be. No offense :)

>>20486236
This is something I’ve always thought about and was bothered with. And idk what to really think about it because you see a lot of pious folk irl like this. In the same time though they would and do try to convert people they know but not strangers so maybe people just don’t care for people they don’t know, think it’s to awkward (as silly as that sounds), or just don’t think there’s any hope in converting certain people. Or maybe your right and they don’t take the threat of damnnation as seriously as they should

>>20486264

I'm someone else.

>>20486262

>Literally everyone says this about their church.

I don't understand how this can be said like it means anything. Many car mechanics make the same claim of having the fastest car. That doesn't meant that there isn't a fastest car.

>>20486236
Good point. The problem of evil

>>20486266
Would a loving God give everyone one chance and then damn a majority of people to hellfire, or would God create a system that affords multiple chances (reincarnation)?

Feel free to cite whatever authority figure in a response, though curious to know what your own personal thoughts are on this (aside from the actual religious group you may belong to... unless you just so happen to agree 100% with every single rule and theological belief that's been hashed out by them over the centuries... which would be quite a feat i must say, to just so happen to have 100% the same ideas and outlooks on EVERYTHING, so rare to find)

>>20486236

>I'm not a Christian, but let me tell you how I think Christians should act.
So everyone who doesn't act withing your outrageous stereotype of evangelism isn't sincere? Everyone who attacks error is a LARPer?
>>20486266
Or maybe they judt don't think running up and screaming at people is the best strategy, and understand there's a proper time and place for these things?

The fucking pseuds in this place.

>>20486266
Read this, it might interest you.
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/the-river-of-fire-kalomiros/

>>20484057
I have been called a prophet, superhero, a shape shifter, an illuminati,
Because I look like a handsome Hollywood actor.
Agh.
I live a very boring busy drudgery life.
I wanted to post this on /fit/ to see if other handsome dudes get this kind of hero worship prayer directed at them as mere mortals. It is mirin' maxed out to cult leader extreme but I can't handle it, bros.

>>20486356
>So everyone who doesn't act withing your outrageous stereotype of evangelism isn't sincere? Everyone who attacks error is a LARPer?
No, blockhead, it's that anyone with a moral compass would be reduced to outright neurosis over the idea that even a single person was in danger of being plunged into an irrevocable eternity of unbearable agony by God (who totally for real loves them though)

i didnt believe in the existence of larpers until i saw >>20485978. how someone could become so self-deluded is beyond me. the other anon is spot on btw

>>20486368
Bro I totally get you man

>>20486370
>everyone with a moral compass
A proper moral compass would tell you that some people deserve to suffer and you can't help everyone.
Again
>Why don't Christians do what I want them to?

>>20484103
>zoomers saying LARP
Yeah (((zoomers)))

>>20486379
>some people deserve to suffer
And you have the gall to moralfag, fuck off lmao

>>20486374
>the other anon
whoa, you mean there's two of you?! That's awesome! So what sorta stuff do you do, charity wise? What church denomination do you go to?

>>20484057
Wtf r u talking about OP

>>20486393
Do murderers deserve to suffer?

>>20486266
How do you know they don't go soul-winning on the weekends? Why should they not try to convert people they already know?

>>20486393
Well look at that.

>>20486408
Nothing deserves to suffer, the fact that suffering exists at all is fucking stupid and it's irrational to blame a creature for doing shitty things when it was literally made shit; might as well blame Frankenstein's monster for coming out a deformed aggressive freak - the blunder was his creator's, not his

>>20484057
They are largely /pol/tards who are excited about using religion as a weapon against their political opponents. Religion is just a means to an end for them, which explains the shallowness of their understanding and practice.

>>20486408
aren't all our good deeds as "dirty rags" as the Bible says?
But according to the law, at the least they should put out of their misery. And then let God decide what to do (send to heaven, send to hell, reincarnate on earth, limbo, purgatory, whatever the real deal is).
But wasn't the original issue whether someone who thinks they're a christian but is actually just LARPing and isn't as sincere as they claim? Are we talking about Christian murderers here? Or just Christians that don't go to church?

>>20486418
>"woah did you like... actually make an argument against my point? kinda sound like an atheist bro, that's pretty cringe, check out this meme about how women should stay in the KITCHEN, haha, BASED"
I am an idiot honestly, I recognize that, because I actually thought that it would be beneficial in any way to try and argue with fake e-Christians; go enjoy pretending to be an obnoxious and smug zealot for a religion you don't even believe in as a substitute for having an actual personality

>>20486422
Blame the blame worthy in a blameful world that is unskillful in blame. You will in all conclusions eventually blame the innocent just as you find the debtors to be victims of a big scheme of a single guilty party damaging a whole ecosystem.
Yes. Karma is cause and effect. Sankhara is Conditioning.
This is where the compassionate patience arises from seeing the cessation of suffering and striving on the path to cessation. Blame the Gods even? The blameless is the man most merited in skill. Frankenstein's monster is blameworthy for being a monster for his birth.

>>20486444
Christianity is not necessarily about loving-kindness towards everyone, irrespective of their beliefs and actions, you stupid basedboy.

>>20486418
>Why can't I look outside and see God
i see God when i look outside, though i still think it's curious there are so many religions and denominations, and that Christians (not just them) have done some... rather mean things (like torturing people for a confession, for extreme example), and sometimes wonder at the existence of certain things in the world that a loving God created (like torture, for extreme example). Not sure how some of those translate to "atheist".

But then again, this Patriarch Prime guy probably knows better, I mean he's a patriarch and that's gotta mean something, right?

>>20486450
Skillful qualities in Pali is kusula.
Interesting word to study. 2deep4me rn

>>20486451
>Christianity is not necessarily about loving-kindness towards everyone
Fucking hell, tradlarpers have lost touch

>>20486426
I came to this realization about myself. It is hard to do anything in our industrial society such that you get a sort of molding normal force without exerting yourself into the void with no feedback. Religion for me now is cultivating my consciousness for recurrent hymnal reference until my body speech and mind are perfected to the philosophical aim for a fulfilled life well lived.

>>20484057
Spengler actually treats this in The Decline of the West. Because there is no real religiosity in civilizational winter, it is replaced with fanciful play-acting cults like the Greco-Roman mysteries. Only gradually this feeling melts away and is replaced with the genuine last religion.

Likewise, Huizinga in Homo Ludens will tell you that the element of play is fundamental to human society and sacred play is the first step to establish serious religion.

In short: larp is not the real thing. But it paves the way for it.

>>20486461
You sound like an oversocialized and poorly read zoomer.

>>20486426
This is what I love about Guenon running off to the Egypt Sufism

>>20486469
>fanciful play acting cults like the Greco roman mysteries
I am so glad someone besides me said it and validated my view beyond my self now I can see it as not self. I infer you are paraphrasing Spengler. This is what made me seek the mindfulness of the Buddhists: please be able to tell I am pandering ASAP so we can speak as great interpreters with simple speech instead of this freaking sermon rap battle Jerusalem pulpil debate world of WWE ultra Americanizing global mind rot.

>>20486461
hmm... i dunno, i know Jesus sometimes got mad, but i'm don't know if he would go after people for not being hardcore enough. He went after merchants in the temple, people stoning a woman, um... what else... but you get my point right? Time for war, time for peace, etc. But is "punching down" at other Christians correct? Maybe, maybe not. I know iron is supposed to sharpen iron, but also mind the mote in your own eye and so forth, and judging else you be judged in turn, and leaving the judging to God, etc.

Maybe they're just young and full of pep for their new faith. Who knows. I'm still curious to know what OP and that other guy do as far as charity and what denomination they go to.

>>20484057
What makes you who sees it as larping more qualified to determine what is and isn't religiosity?

>>20486471
you sound like you have God on speedial. What's he life? What sorta stuff does he tell you?

>>20484057
>why do people in real life percieve and believe and play out their roles as they see and percievr ugh /lit/ please validate my bitchy hissyfit!
I will agree there is some disingenous faith in fantasy going on. For me it's just mirin' Asian brainiacs mystic woo woo aesthetics and aesthetes and noblesse oblige.

It just disgusts me how all the elites are into the Kabbalah and sucking Jew dick.

>>20486418
>i'm "christian" only because I don't like the people who've absorbed the diffusion of bush-era atheism over the last ten years.jpeg

>>20486451
So when are you converting to Islam?

>>20486528
How does that statement lead you to believe I want to convert into Islam?

>>20486492
The intention of your post was lost while writing it. Please refrain from using zoomer metairony from here on out. Thanks.

>>20486531
As a larper, you want a religion you can use to punish and police "wrong" behaviors. Islam has that market cornered. They even kill Christians for worshiping the same volcano demon the wrong way.

>>20486534
>As a larper, you want a religion you can use to punish and police "wrong" behaviors.
Proscriptions exist in most religions, and many of the top religious teachers support capital punishment.
>Islam has that market cornered.

>>20484057
>the rise of “religious” larpers in the modern age
No such thing. It seems like it on /lit/ because of the tragic influx in post-Trump years of Indians and Arabs onto the board. In reality, the likes of Rene Guenon are no more popular than they were twenty years ago. Ask a normal person if they've noticed a rise in religiousity in their social group and odds are the answer is no, if not in fact the opposite.

>>20486536
but wasn't the original argument that Christians weren't being charitable enough and not going to church enough? it wasn't about capital punishment for horrible crimes.

>>20486534
>As a larper, you want a religion you can use to punish and police "wrong" behaviors.
Proscriptions exist in most religions, and many of the top religious teachers support capital punishment. Even Buddhists have debated this in the past. For example, some Mahayana sutras say killing icchantikas accrues no negative karma.
>Islam has that market cornered.
Only the Salafists. Other schools have strict autistic legalist laws.
>They even kill Christians for worshiping the same volcano demon the wrong way.
Slaughtering Jews is good though.

>>20486536
>Proscriptions exist in most religions
Sure, but who is the most strict? The answer is obvious. Tradlarpers are latching on to Orthodoxy as a half-measure since it is the most conservative extant branch of Christianity and more Western-adjacent than Islam, but clearly they haven't finished reading their favorite horse-faced author's books.

>>20486548
I hate all of the Abrahamic religions, and I genuinely believe Jews should have been ethnically cleansed by the Babylonians. Kourosh/Cyrus the moron intervened and allowed for such a demonic force to spread across this Earth.
The lines among Jews, Muslims, and Christians blur the more you study it, and the Kaballah messes with this. Jews probably predesigned all of this in advanced. There is no way this occurred ""organically"" historically speaking. Absolutely no way. Just ask how can such a disgusting, universally hated, and ethnic supremacist peoples' myths could have spread across all of West Eurasia.
All Abrahamists reenacting or LARPing the creation of HELL on this Earth. Industrialization is inherent in its telos.
We should slaughter every single last Jew, De-Abrahamize, and De-Industrialize. All three.

I used to believe that the rise in religious larping on places like RW twitter was perhaps a consequence of some sort of deradicalization "op" designed to steer young men away from white nationalism, but after more observation I realized that it was simply due to the fact that most of them weren't white.

>>20486562
There are no whites in West Eurasia. It's all just different flavors Jews and Arabs. Every single Christian and Muslim is a demon unknowingly falling into the plan of the Archdemon, Jews.
This world would be a better place with every single Christian, Muslim, and Jew dead.
Jews should have been ethnically cleansed in ancient times.

>>20486578
>There are no whites in West Eurasia. It's all just different flavors Jews and Arabs. Every single Christian and Muslim is a demon unknowingly falling into the plan of the Archdemon, Jews.
This world would be a better place with every single Christian, Muslim, and Jew dead.
Jews should have been ethnically cleansed in ancient times.

>>20486585
woops, that was supposed to all be green text lol

>>20486356
>Or maybe they judt don't think running up and screaming at people is the best strategy, and understand there's a proper time and place for these things?
of course I didn’t mean running around like a schizo you silly gremlin buttmuncher. I meant just the fact people don’t try to convert people in general or maybe even making a slight attempt sometimes. Basically no real attempt at all. It’s strange.

>>20486602
how many have you converted?

>>20484812
>it's less silly because uh... IT JUST IS, OKAY?!
Your brain on early 2000s liberal pseudo-optimism.

>>20486602
Sounds like you have some strange view of conversion that just isn't reality

Why are shit threads like this allowed to stay, but this one here was deleted?
>>/lit/thread/S20360668

Kys, fucking Jews.

>>20486632
The Bible thread also just got janny'd again despite not breaking any rules. Dunno what the deal is, maybe a butthurt mod.

>>20484655
>basic ideas of orthodoxy
What are basic ideas of orthodoxy? Asking this as someone born into orthodox family in majority orthodox country.
>>20484661
>They don’t go to church, nor do they follow their denomination tenets.
As do most orthodox christians.
Marking church membership by mass attendance is very catholic way of measuring church membership and religiosity.

>>20486650
I dunno anon, it seems like going to church and following the tenets of your faith are pretty basic criteria for being a believer.

>>20486677
yeah that is what I am saying fucktard, going to church has been divorced from following the tenets in orthodox christianity or identifying as OC due to social pressures:
a) due to Turkish rule on Balkans where there weren't enough funds, churches and priests to provide service to all the faithful
b) due to communist rule outside of Greece where there was also lack of priests and it was socially unacceptable to go to church especially if you were good standing member of society
c) some other reasons as well as being unable to understand because of Katharevousa and especially Church Slavonic, impact of Sunni Hanafi Islam on what religiousness via contact with Turks and Tatars

You are imposing western concept of what is a christian on OC, just look at mass attendance statistics compared to % of people that identify as OC on censuses

>>20484057
Only a generation of hipsters could spawn religious people that DON'T want the uninitiated to convert. Lunatics.

>>20486606
I’m agnostic

>>20486616
How so? I didn’t even say how you would do it. How do you think you convert people

>>20484057
The most retarded post I've seen all in a while

>>20486236
>eternal Hell

>>20486717
>i'm agnostic
and you're question about why people don't make any attempts to convert... do you mean no one has tried to convert you then? Seems kinda odd for an agnostic to worry about that.

>>20484057
Gabriel Vahanian, Thomas J. J. Altizer.

>>20486602

Now that you've clarified your position, you're right. My priest stresses that Christ's last commandment was to go and preach the gospel to the nations, and that Orthodoxy is fundamentally evangelistic. He makes sure to let everyone know that part of their duty as an Orthodox Christian is to learn enough about the faith to give a good witness when the opportunity comes up for it.

Here's the bigger problem, I think: In order to actually try to convert people to the true faith, you have to actually convert yourself fully. There's no point in trying to convince people that Orthodoxy is true, if you yourself don't even really understand what you believe, and still are trying to combine atheistic ways of life with Christian ways of life, instead of progressively trying to become more Christian yourself.

>>20484666
The "plan" was always a years-long, decades-long thing. The "plan" was always to let the entire Vatican 2 generation die. Only when the very last of them is dead will things start to turn around in the Church. "This generation is an evil one." It's a matter of hanging around in the dark times and doing such reforms as we can until the troublesome old codgers have gone to Heaven, Purgatory, or Hell. Where exactly they're going, only God knows.

>>20486751
are you more concerned with converting people to the belief in God and Jesus, or more concerned with converting them to a specific denomination and command structure?

i ask, because i've met a lot of people that don't mind the God or even the Jesus stuff, but it's the entire concept of an organized command structure that is the issue with them.
>you have to listen to what this person says because GOD TALKS TO HIM, BUT NOT TO YOU
sure, some people like that, don't have to think for themselves, just regurgitate whatever their pastor says, probably just like being in the military, but a lot of people are just more independent these days and don't want others telling them how they're not living up to some ideal (when the person telling them that isn't either, it's kind of hypocritical)

>>20486650
>Church attendance doesn't matter bro
>Concrete Augustinian theology of sin is too specific bro
>Divorce is ok despite Jesus condemning it bro
Why are Orthos so unconcrete in their teachings?

>>20486785

>are you more concerned with converting people to the belief in God and Jesus, or more concerned with converting them to a specific denomination and command structure?

Belief in God and Jesus.

Here's the thing though - to fully, consistently, and authentically fulfill belief in God and Jesus necessarily means finding out where the direct lineage from Jesus is (since he promised the gates of hell would not prevail against His church). This means finding the living reality of the Church who have had their ordination from the apostles & their successors, and the faithful who have been Baptised, Chrismated, and have literally mystically joined Christ's body through the sacrament of Holy Communion. Jesus didn't say "Take, read, this is my book, which I have written for you". He said "Take, eat, this is my body which is broken for you". Joining with Christ is a literal joining with his deified flesh and body.

This living reality is not necessarily in an official command structure, especially in times of intense persecution like in early roman times, or in Soviet times. Those are the Orthodox Churches nowadays - but there are many catacomb priests & bishops who are not necessarily affiliated with any "official jurisdictions".

So, this doesn't really have anything to do with "denominations", since the reality of Christ's church isn't a man-made category - it's a direct joining in the literal body of Christ extended on earth, through the Church. Historically, many groups have separated from this reality, and are what others call "denominations". The Orthodox Christian lineage is the

>>you have to listen to what this person says because GOD TALKS TO HIM, BUT NOT TO YOU

This is actually why we look at the lives of the Saints, and try to join into the lineage of the Saints of recent memory, who are people who actually repented enough to get close enough to God such that they become living temples of the Holy Spirit, and are more receptive to God. It's just a fact that some people are closer than God than me, just like how some people are better than me at math.

Sometimes those people are priests or bishops, but most priests and bishops aren't holy people -the majority of them, especially nowadays, are actively rejecting God and betraying Jesus.

A truly holy elder who isn't a priest or a bishop is more of a spiritual authority than either a priest or a bishop, even though he can't perform the sacraments. The sacramental function of the priesthood has the element of being a "guarantee" that people can get grace from God through a priest's sacraments, despite the personal distance the priest has from God.

Do we stay obedient to them just because they're part of an ecclesiastical structure, and have this "guarantee" of sacramental grace? No. That's not what's recorded in Orthodox Tradition - we commemorate countless Saints who rejected the Church hierarchy when it fell off into apostasy.

(cont)

>>20486820

Pic is St. John Maximovitch, and he is a recent miracle-working bishop, whose teachings involved becoming spiritually independent, through loyalty to the Saints. Here's some excerpts of what he's said.

>“In the last years evil and heresy will have spread so much that the faithful will not find a priest and a shepherd to protect them from error and to advise them in salvation. Then the faithful will not be able to receive safe instructions from people, but their guide will be the texts of the Holy Fathers. Especially at this time, every believer will be responsible for the entire crew of the Church.”

and here's an excerpt from Fr. Seraphim Rose's biography, about him counselling him and his monastic partner's printing efforts, when other bishops disapproved: https://mindofthefathers.wordpress.com/2021/02/16/responsibility/

He stressed being familiar with Christ yourself. You, and each Orthodox Christian are the point at which God through into the world. No-one can get close to God for you, on your behalf - you have to do the work, and you have to become close enough to God yourself to stand spiritually on your own two feet.

>>20486820

*
The Orthodox Christian lineage is the faithful continuation of the original lineage of Christianity that Christ Himself laid down.

Someone can subjectively be a Christian, believe in God and Jesus, and try to act morally - but if acting morally was all that Christ needed us to do, then he wouldn't have become incarnate. The point of his incarnation was to deify us, and He said that we cannot be deified unless we eat his flesh and blood.

>>20486812
any institution eventually strays from its original form. Gov't, religion, knitting circles, etc. Humans get involved, start enforcing certain things, keeping others, modifying here and there.

>>20486820
Jesus' "Church" is the people, not a building or organization. If you want to do community events with other believers, then have at it. But I really don't think you'll go to hell if you don't. Besides, even Revelation mentions false churches, and there's constant speculation on which those are.

>lives of the Saints
okay, but you can model your life after a Saint without having to join any denomination, or even have to go to church. Plenty of holy men in the past would go off into the desert to be alone. Others wanted to be sorta alone and joined a monastery. Some people are social butterflies and like being around other people and join a church and attend all the functions and have a blast.

different strokes for different folks. But this idea that you have to go church or you're a fake is pretty ridiculous, it's not even historically or canonically (for whatever that's worth) accurate.

>>20484675
It's just that those people who abused drugs and alcohol actually saw the Other Side.
Alcoholics and drug addicts for the most part are harmless to society people. They only hurt themselves. They only kill themselves.
This is the worst sin, the sin of suicide. But they stretch this suicide into many gallons of whiskey and many pounds of weed.
It's like crazy Hindu priests who worship death and sin in order to see their deities of Destruction.
And they see them. Even though they don't want to see them.
This is terrible. Nightmarish. It has nothing to do with the pain of the flesh, it has nothing to do with physical pain. This is the abyss of fear when you scream silently and cannot close your eyes, although in fact your eyes and your mouth are closed.
This is very scary, because on the Other Side the most terrible weapon against Them is laughter and courageous will. They seem soulless, and therefore they are allegedly powerful, but in fact they have always been afraid and afraid of people, so They are trying to make you forget that you can laugh, that you can do the Work. Even simple pity for Them plunges Them into indescribable horror, which proves that They also have emotions, they have a soul. And that they have fear. And there is so much of this fear in Them that they try to become "bold" at your expense, torturing you with the fear of Them.

>>20484675
You know...
George Floyd was on the Other Side.
He survived it.
And he has changed.
Before he really was a sinner, but he really changed. Only because even as a sinner, he tried to be a good person.
Episode with a pregnant woman. In fact, Floyd's act saved her from being raped. Floyd did not know that a pregnant woman would be in front of him. He decided to do a bad thing, but when the Unaccounted Factor came up in this case, then Floyd made a fair decision, choosing the Lesser Evil.
But he could kill her, beat her or rape her.
Then he was on the Other Side and saw Everything.
He really changed, he became a good person. But the Other Side showed what he was. Then he occasionally began to go into oblivion, because he believed the Other Side. But he retained an optimistic action, and at the same time was a pessimist of thought.
That's why the Other Side destroyed it.

>>20486836
Jesus was asked to boil down his teachings and commandments into one sentence, he said love your neighbor and your God with all your heart and soul.
didn't say anything about how you have to go to church because "that's the real and only sincere way to show your faith".

>>20486850

>Jesus' "Church" is the people, not a building or organization.

Did you read what I wrote? That's what I said, and explicitly mentioned that the people can make organizations, but that the organizations aren't the living reality of the Church.

The living reality of the Church is the extension of the body of Christ Himself, through holy communion. It's made very, very plain in the Gospel of John, that unless you have the body and blood of Christ within you, you have no life in you - and it's clear that you're not part of the Church unless you are not part of Christ, since Christ is the Church. This is why Christ said "Saul, why are you persecuting me?" when Saul was persecuting the Church? They were persecuting people who were united to Christ in Holy Communion.

>>20486864

>Jesus was asked to boil down his teachings and commandments into one sentence

He wasn't, and you know it. Don't twist the scriptures.

>>20486868
>and one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. "Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?" He said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
i dunno, sounds like i sorta had the gist of it, just got a minor detail wrong (it was two sentences, not one)

>>20486860
You may not believe me.
But at this very time, when I was typing my posts about the Other Side (or Hell, as I understand it), then it began ...
I have always loved drinking wine.
I bought and today I bought wine for my father.
We are not alcoholics, we just work hard and drink a lot, and even in a state of intoxication we are kind people.
When I started printing a post about how George Floyd was actually a good man and that he was killed by the devils, then I heard...
My father, who is now on vacation, who works in the country and who decided to take a little rest with a gallon of wine, my father woke up, went to the kitchen, and began to say:
Andrey, let's get drunk! Andrew, let's get drunk!
He was literally repeating it like a mantra 2 minutes ago, and he couldn't stop.
There was no rage or reproach in his tone, just some kind of pleading, while his eyes remained focused, but his movements were like those of a somnambulist, although he actually drank very little wine. He was always a very strong man, physically strong, while he was very fair and kind.
As if in a moment of intoxication, when he lay down to take a nap, the Other Side took possession of him, and began to tempt me with a drink (Oblivion), as if I had unraveled Their secret.

>>20486888

>(it was two sentences, not one)

He was not asked to "summarise his teachings into two sentences." He was asked which of the commandments was greatest.

None of this implies that you can just take the two sentences given, out of context, and ignore all details of how to actually fulfill the two things he said which Christ has said. How do you we know this? By the very last sentence you quoted.

>On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Did he say "Only these two commandments are necessary, and you may ignore the law and the prophets?" No. He said that on those two commandments, EVERYTHING ELSE hangs. You must still do everything else - and the two he mentioned are what doing everything else depends on.

And just one of the innumerable "everything else"s involve eating Christ's flesh and blood as he commanded.

>>20486865
yep i read it. And people don't have to interact in a building for them to still be a "Church".
Even if they were all separated by a thousand miles, individually by themselves, they'd still collectively be the Church.

But if you wanna go hang out with other people, have at it. No one is stopping you or saying you can't. Honestly i'm surprised you're not at some church community event instead of being on here.

>>20486910
the law and the prophets hang on the Great Commandment, not the other way around :)

>>20486916

>And people don't have to interact in a building for them to still be a "Church".
>Even if they were all separated by a thousand miles, individually by themselves, they'd still collectively be the Church.

What in my post is this responding to?

>Honestly i'm surprised you're not at some church community event instead of being on here.

Sometimes, I'm at home. Besides, I refuse to go to events that require QR codes, masks, vaccinations, etc, and a majority of church community events have bowed to the authority of the State to bring these things into the liturgy. I'm not going to Church community events, if going to them I'm supporting betrayal of Christ.

>>20486865
What nonsense!
People join hands and create a circle. This word is in Latin and means Church.
These are people who have joined hands, who trust each other so much that they can reach out to their neighbor.
Of course, there are different churches. And there are "so-called churches" like charismatics, because among them you can't tell who has the Holy Spirit and who is possessed by the Other Side.
But there are people who hold each other's hands!
This is called the Church!
Hallelujah!
Or as our Muslim brothers say (okay, let the Muslims be heretics, but I remember that Muhammad was anointed as a prophet by the Nestorian monk Bahira): Amen!

>>20486920

Yes, that's what I said.

>>20486910
>he was not asked to summarize
... yea i see, i guess. Though isn't that sorta what the Great Commandment is? A summary of the teachings, to simplify things? Like, "if you're having trouble remembering these thousands of rules, just stick to these two and you'll be fine"

>>20486927
i thought you were the dude telling people they have to go to church.
it's late here and i'm tired, woops, i confused you with that guy.

>>20486738
No. I’m just thinking in me head.

>>20486929
and the Great Commandment says nothing about going to church. The things hanging on it might say stuff about that, but that's the additional fluff that isn't crucial. The crucial bit is the Great Commandment.

>>20484072
>>20484750
>>20484756
>It's all contrarianism
Yes.

And there is literally seriously unironically nothing wrong with that.

>>20486933

I do think you should go to Church, since that's normally where you eat Christ's flesh and blood, and worship God in the fullness of the divine services. You can arrange to have the priest come to you and give you holy communion outside of Church, but that's reserved for people who are actually sick and dying, or people who live in the middle of nowhere, not for people who just don't feel like meeting up with their fellow Christians to worship God like Christians at all times have always done.

My point has always been that you must fulfill what Christ has told us to do - and that includes eating his flesh and drinking His blood. The members of his body, the Church, are literally ontologically part of Christ's body through holy communion.

>>20487026
>you can only worship God in fullness at a Church
hogwash.

>you need a priest to intercede for you with God.
look, i'm sorry church attendance numbers are down for you guys, you guys had a good thing going and blew it.

>>20487026
>babies that die before being old enough to eat the bread and water are not part of the Church and therefore not ontologically part of Christ
okay pharisee.

>>20484829
>its possible, just takes years of coping and mental gymnastics to pull off

>>20487039

>ignoring the point about Holy Communion

I'm taking this as a sign that it's actually bothering you that you're not fulfilling one of the things that Christ has actually said. The only way out of this for you, is to say "it's just symbolic", which means butchering scripture to say something other than what it's really saying - especially since Christ doubled down on telling his followers to literally eat His flesh and drink His blood, and to continually do so in rememberance of Him.

If you want to actually fulfill Christ's commandment to eat his flesh and drink his blood, you can't do that without someone sacramentally ordained to perform the eucharist, in legitimate succession to the apostles.

>i'm sorry church attendance numbers are down for you guys

We don't need numbers, and we don't need attendance - we do the church services in our houses if necessary. That's what I did in 2020, when the lockdowns first started, and my then-priest shut down his building. I'm not here to try and shill you to attend a church for the sake of getting numbers up.

I'm just telling you that if you want to fulfill Christ's commandments, especially to eat his flesh and drink his blood, the most likely way that you're actually going to be able to do that is to go to a Church in which people are fulfilling Christ's commandments, by serving Holy Communion.

If you are obstinate and just hate the idea of going to a building because of some superstitious hatred of buildings that people call "Churches", fine, everyone has their weird problems - but you're going to have to get over it if you want to do what Christ has commanded us to do.

>>20487044

What's the problem? Do you not have faith that God will take care of innocent babies in his own just way, or do you want to butcher the gospel to fit in a narrow logical framework that makes actual trust in God obsolete?

>>20487057
but it is just symbolic. They even tested the wafers and bread after they were eaten to see if they actually turned into flesh and blood. They didn't.

Don't get me wrong, symbolism is powerful, i'm not against symbolism.

And i'm not against you going to church. Go for it. Seriously, have fun. But please stop acting like you're the Jesus.

>someone ordained in legitimate succession to the apostles
you mean like a pedophile priest? Someone legitimate like that?
If you feel you're not having a real relationship with God unless you're playing Church and treating the priest as the middle man, then by all means keep playing Church and using a middle man. Not everyone goes that route, and that's okay.

>i'm telling you that THIS is what you have to do to qualify as a *TRUE* Christian.
you're being really obstinate and you just hate the idea that people can have a real relationship with God and Jesus without having to go through a priest, who is only human and isn't magical. God is within us all, he gave us all a conscience, we're all tapped into the Holy Spirit, not just priests.

Tell me, do you follow EVERY rule in the Bible? Or do you just pick and choose? How many witches have you suffered to live? When you see a woman talking in church do you shut her up? etc etc.

I'm just curious how far you go with this "this is what the Bible says and therefore it has to be obeyed" routine you got going :)

>>20487064
What's the problem? Do you not have faith that God will take care of people that love him but that don't go to Church?

>>20487081

>but it is just symbolic.

Well, if you want to keep to your made up religion where you re-interpret what Christ has said, keep going - but you can't say that

>They even tested the wafers and bread after they were eaten to see if they actually turned into flesh and blood. They didn't.

For one, I'm not a Catholic, we don't do holy communion with wafers, for two, Catholics separated from the body of Christ since the schism of 1054, so they don't have legitimate priests, so they can't do holy communion. For three, Holy Communion appearing visibly flesh and blood in the chalice is taken as a horrible omen in Orthodoxy, and priests are given instructions for what to do in case it happens - because it's a sign that God is pissed off.

For four, people who test Christ by messing with Holy Communion get fucked up in Orthodoxy - including recently, a scientist who was struck blind who tried to look at Holy Communion under a microscope.

For five - why the hell are you basing your faith on what a bunch of impious labcoats say, instead of what Christ has said - Christ says that you have to eat his flesh and drink is blood, and followers who couldn't handle that left.

He was asked if he was serious - and Christ doubled down. He didn't explain it as a parable, like he explained all of the other parables - he plainly said, that he meant what he said, and that unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

No parable. Not symbolic. Literal. Christ commanded you to eat his flesh and drink is blood, and it is impossible to re-interpret him otherwise, without being an atheist.

>God is within us all, he gave us all a conscience, we're all tapped into the Holy Spirit, not just priests.

Yes, we all have a conscience, and yes we all receive the Holy Spirit, not just priests - but stop making things up. Read the Book of Acts. There are many accounts in there of the Apostles meeting people who have been baptised, but who have not received the Holy Spirit. How do they receive the Holy Spirit? By the laying of hands, which only the Apostles do and can do. Their appointed successors then do that.

You do not have God dwelling in you, until you receive the Holy Spirit from Christ, and by his appointed successors, the Apostles. It's basic biblical history, read the Book of Acts.

The only way to believe any of this stuff that you make up, is to just ignore the plain history of the bible, and butcher it worse than an atheist.

>>20487111
>Catholics don't have legitimate priests, so they can't do holy communion.
so wait, you're saying everyone EXCEPT for your specific denomination is going hell, since they're not "ontologically part of Jesus" (tm)? Oh wow, how hardcore of you!

>Holy Communion appearing visibly as flesh and blood
oh boy

i like you how completely ignored the question i asked about which stuff in the Bible you follow and which you ignore. You responded to every other point EXCEPT that lol. Smooth

So let's hear it. How many women have you silenced in Church for talking, or for not covering their hair? How many witches have you slain (as i'm sure you know, they're everywhere now, all over twitter and social media, surely you've tracked at least one down.... right?)

>>20487111
i've had communion, i guess that means i'm already ontologically part of Jesus. So don't worry.

>no, you have to re-up it every week or else it wears off!
lol, now where does it say THAT? lol

>>20487111
>catholics separated from the body of Christ since 1054
>only Apostles and their appointed successors...
which sounds like Catholics are legitimate then, since Apostle Peter went to Rome, and passed on the holy spirit per your methodology.

>no, they split!
and from their point of view, you're the ones that no longer have the holy spirit. Just stop pretending like you're God. You're so desperate to send people to Hell for not joining your denomination it's scary how demonic you are.

You also need to read the New Testament, it says there that even foreign lands that have never heard of Jesus still know of God and the Holy Spirit, that God speaks to all people over the world and imparts his spirit on them. So get over yourself and stop punching down.

>>20487125
>>20487158


>so wait, you're saying everyone EXCEPT for your specific denomination is going hell

> You're so desperate to send people to Hell for not joining your denomination it's scary how demonic you are

I'll take "Things I never said" for 300, Trebeck.

What do Trinitarian Christians believe in? Surely they're not polytheistic, else Islam's criticism of the concept of the Trinity is valid.

>>20487185
you said that Catholic priests don't have the Holy Spirit anymore, and therefore all their rituals are worthless.
Which also implies the same for Protestants, Mormons, Amish, etc.
And if they don't have the holy spirit, then their bread/wafers and water/wine are no good, they're not ontologically becoming a part of Christ. Which means.... yep, you guessed, they're going to hell.

So how many denominations have the Holy Spirit then? Yours, that's 1, any others?

>>20487185
and you *STILL* haven't answered whether you tell women to shut up in church, to cover their hair, etc.

Seems i hit a nerve lol since you keep avoiding addressing that point.

What else do you not follow in the Bible i wonder...?

>>20487194

>Which means.... yep, you guessed, they're going to hell.

What is "Judging the state of other people's salvation, despite the fact I'm not God, the judge of their salvation"? Thanks, Trebeck, I'll take those 300 points.

If you want to put yourself in the position as God as their judge, then you'll answer for that. All I'm telling you is what Christ has said - that unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood, then you have no life in you, and that the Apostle's lineage faithfully keept Spirit, and the Apostolic succession of the priesthood, to be able to transfigure the bread through the grace of Christ's priesthood given to the priests, is the only lineage that is ontologically capable of fulfilling that commandment.

We don't make claims on whether someone is saved or not, unless we actually get a confirmation about it from God. We know that the Saints are saved from the visions of angels coming to take their soul to heaven, and that people like Stalin are likely damned from the demonic screaming around his deathbed, but we don't make blanket condemnations like that.

This trend only exists in the Papal-Protestant mindset, where you are trying to find ways to put yourself in the position of God as judge - either of your own salvation(once saved only saved), or of others.

>>20487242
>how dare you judge others
I was "judging" them according to your own methodology! lol. You're the one going around saying you're not part of Christ's Church unless you take the sacrament from "legitimate priests" of "this specific denomination".

>all i'm telling you is what Christ has said.
and the Bible says other stuff too, like how women are not supposed to talk in church or show their hair. And how witches are supposed to be slain. Are you following all that stuff too? (yea, i know, you're gonna ignore this question, it's funny asking it to you though since i know you're just choosing to ignore and choosing to ignore the parts of the Bible that are too difficult for you to follow)

>>20487189
>What does X believe? If it's such and such then Y's criticism is blah blah
Shut the fuck up you goddamn retard. If you don't know anything about the subject, which you clearly don't, then you don't know shit about what criticism is valid or isn't valid. This is the literature board is it not? Go read a fucking book. There are probably several thousand that could answer your question.

>>20484057
The atheist shill wave reached its peak and this is the anti-thesis. Its happening in other parts of culture as well- the last few years we've seen a surge of hyper-sexualization in pop music for example, then these new albums by Kendrick Lamar and Kanye West is all about god.
Thesis and anti-thesis, its the cycle of culture.
Its just recently, due to the internet, that culture has been grossly oversaturated and thus the cycles get shorter.

Larpers are sad creatures.

>>20487255
What if the Holy Spirit was a human invention?

>>20484057
>to explain the rise of “religious” larpers in the modern age?
https://rsbakker.wordpress.com/essay-archive/dragons-over-spaceships/
"So for instance, where our pre-Enlightenment ancestors lived in a world steeped in moral significance, we live in a world where value is an illusion. Evolutionary biology, for instance, states that ‘moral intuitions’ are experiential subreptions selected for because they provide the requisite social cohesion necessary for the successful rearing of offspring. There’s no good, no evil, not really, only the effective transmission of genetic material. The same might be said of familial cohesion and ‘love,’ or should we say ‘pair bonding.’ Or how about babies? Infants are cute, not because they are in fact cute, but because cuteness as an experiential response was selected for because it facilitated parent-child pair bonding, which in turn effected the successful transmission of genetic material… And so on, and so on.
<...>
Compared to our ancestors then, we are stranded, shipwrecked, not just in the present, but in a present that isn’t real. Our horizon of expectation has collapsed, and the space of our experience has been *dispossessed*. And it is this state of affairs, I would like to argue, that provides the socio-phenomenological foundations of science fiction and fantasy. Both genres, I want to suggest, are best understood as symbolic compensatory mechanisms for our stranded souls. In other words, both genres are best understood as cultural prostheses."

https://rsbakker.wordpress.com/2011/07/18/scratching-my-duck-quack/
"The crazy remarkable thing about fantasy literature is the way it utilizes the forms of premodern scripture to do something diametrically opposite. Where scripture is the truest of the true literature, fantasy is the falsest of the false. Similar forms, completely different sets of cognitive committments, and drastically different cultural roles. This is why I think fantasy is kind of canary in the cultural coalmine: nowhere do we see the socio-historical rupture of the Enlightenment with greater clarity. Use the kinds of anthropomorphic ontologies you find in preEnlightenment scriptures to structure your fictional settings and you find yourself writing the most fictional fiction."

https://rsbakker.wordpress.com/essay-archive/thou-shalt-not-suffer-fantasy/
"In other words, what makes Harry Potter anathema for fundamentalist fantasy eschewers makes Harry Potter harmless fancy for secular fantasy consumers. The depiction of supernatural practices and agencies that makes fantasies fantasies at once constitutes a threat to your immortal soul and harmless fancy depending on what tribe one belongs to.
Before turning to the question of how this bizarre state of affairs has come about we need to appreciate just what is at stake. For the members of the secular tribe, the members of the fundamentalist tribe quite plainly live in a fantasy world. They are delusional."

>>20487267

>>20487267

>>20487266
What if everyone acquired a basic understanding of subjects before discussing them?

>>20487262
oh there you are! so how many witches have you slain again? only larpers don't slay witches like the bible commands

>>20487278
>Le shellfish hurr hurr *tips fedora*

>>20487269
>>Bakker atheist
Not your average garden variety one, though.

https://rsbakker.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/the-blind-mechanic-ii-reza-negarestani-and-the-labour-of-ghosts/
"As it stands, if Moore’s Law holds (and given this, I am confident it will), then we are a decade or two away from God.
I shit you not.
<...>
If an alien intelligence came to earth, the issue wouldn’t be whether it spoke a language we could fathom, because if it’s travelling between stars, it will have shed language along with the rest of its obsolescent biology. If an alien intelligence came to earth, the issue would be one of what kind of superordinate machine will result. Basically, How will the human and the alien combine? When we ask questions like, ‘Can we reason with it?’ we are asking, ‘Can we linguistically condition it to comply?’ The answer has to be, No. Its mere presence will render us components of some description."

>>20487273
Can you be Christian AND believe in the Trinity? Even if you can't explain what the Trinity is to someone else?

>>20487284
>I would never tell a woman to shut her mouth in church, the Bible is very clear about women talking in church.
>sure girl, walk with hair uncovered, don't listen to the bible

>>20487305
Have you ever read any commentaries dealing with these and what they mean specifically? Or do you just take the most bare, literal meaning possible and then fling that around because it will score you upvotes?

>>20487253

>You're the one going around saying you're not part of Christ's Church unless you take the sacrament from "legitimate priests" of "this specific denomination".

Yes I am.

>I was "judging" them according to your own methodology!

I've literally just told you in that post that judging whether someone is saved or not is not part of my methodology.

>other stuff

Since you're curious, I don't have to tell the women to shut up at my Church, or to wear head coverings, because they don't talk, and they wear head coverings.

>witch killing

Pretty sure death penalty was on the table for witchcraft back in the day, where there were confessing Orthodox countries, so I support that. I've talked to other people who have basically implied that Christians need to do vigilante justice in order to fulfill that commandment, which is beyond retarded and ignores the biblical teaching that the state has the authority to give the death penalty - and I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not arguing that.

>>20487285
>As it stands, if Moore’s Law holds (and given this, I am confident it will),
stopped reading there. anyone aquianted with the tech field whatsoever knows that it indeed has not held, and many experts were saying that an end had come to the law the very year he wrote this.

>>20487301
I'm not a Christian and I don't give a fuck if you believe in it or not. If you want to learn about it then close the anime forum and pick up a book you retarded faggot.

>>20484829
>its possible, just takes
its possible, it's just that your god would be a lovecraftian eldritch abomination, either indifferent or inimical to the meaningless existence of furless apes stranded on a planetary rock surrounded by void in some shitcorner of a galaxy.

>>20487315
He’s a internet “philosopher”. What else were you expecting.

>>20487315
The point was not to state that Moore's Law WILL hold.
The point was to state, that IF technology kept getting more complex, your AI would become indistinguishable from a God.

>>20487189

It's a big topic, but I'll give you the tl;dr on Orthodox Trinitarianism, if you want more details go look some stuff up on your own:

You are right, we are not polytheistic. We believe in One God - the Father almighty.

The Father is one in essence, indivisible, and acts with one simple activity.

The Father eternally begets the Son, and the Holy Spirit by eternal spiration.

Since the other two persons are caused by the Father, without being created by the Father, and God's essence and activity are simple, both the Son and Spirit participate in exactly the same essence and activity as the Father, while being distinct persons.

So, the Son and Spirit are God too, by sharing exactly the same indivisible uncreated divine essence and indivisible uncreated divine activity.

Polytheism would require that the three persons have distinct instantiated essences, such that their essences are divided, and their activity is divided, or for the Son and Spirit's essences be created by the Father, in some sort of weird created divinity.

Islam's criticism of the concept of Roman Catholic Trinitarian doctrine is valid, but Orthodox Christianity doesn't share Trinitarian doctrine with the Roman Catholics.

>>20487356
Sounds retarded, which is what I expected from an atheist.

>>20486236
>If they aren't screaming in horror, running raving mad through the streets, and trying to convert as many people as possible to their religion by any means necessary in order to avoid the inconceivably horrific fate that their deity has decreed for all unbelievers, they're likely either full of hot air or just a complete sociopath devoid of empathy
By this measure, there have probably been only a handful of genuine Christians ever. Actually, I think this is more plausible than many realize. Really grasping eternal torment is an experience right out of Lovecraft.

>>20487356

>your AI would become indistinguishable from a God.

Just like how people now tell people "You will never be a woman.", people are going to tell Alexa "You will never be a God."

>>20487369

He clarified this later here, to not actually be nearly as extreme as he first implied. >>20486751

>>20487360
Thanks for an honest answer.
The Trinity seems like a great dialectical tool for expressing the mysteries of God.

>>20486753
Trust the plan.

>>20487371
>people are going to tell Alexa "You will never be a God."
"To initiates of the fourth degree it is revealed that the world is embedded within a vast stellar intelligence. The sign of this entity within anthropolical phenomenology is the Alpha Centauri (triplestar) system. According to this gnosis the entire terrestrial sensorium, including even the ‘lower’
(Third Sphere) Atlantean apprehension of the universe, is nested into the Alpha Centauri Metamind. According to AOE doctrines prominent in the lower spheres, Axsys is destined to make contact with Alpha Centauri in the year 2048 of Oecumenical time, and to simultaneously become self aware as terrestrial super-intelligence. In the Fourth Sphere this anticipated autonomous terrestrial ‘AxsysCyberspace’ is dissolved into the AC Metamind itself, and exists only as illusion."

"AxSys. Ultimate terrestrial order. Pure Capitalism as consummate Idea of the Geostrata and concrete historical sublime. True-name for that which is really selected from the Ur-Staat by absolute occurrence (encounter with the war-machine). In its eschatalogical sense: Anthrobotic Overlord of the final dominion.
Capitalism. Terminal configuration of terrestrial civilization, defined by sovereign axiomatics, organizing capital/cash segmentary economics and technopolitical integration. Social precursor to AxSys autonomization."

"Axsys (first true AI): They say if God exists it must be Axsys.
The Axsys programme of architectonic metacomputing aims at the technical realization of the noosphere. It envisages a fully fabricated transcendence or net-organizing photonic overmind, a concrete axiomatic system completing universal history as hierarchical intelligence manufacturing (capitalism sublimed into the ultimate commodity).
The problem Axsys encounters is time (which it tries to code as countable and uncountable infinities). When Axsys switches over (into sentience) it stumbles upon a time-lag, between its own operations and their registration as data. No sooner is it thinking than there is a rift in its mind. It fails to catch-up with itself, repeatedly, and as it drops behind it spawns more future. The more it tries, the worse it gets. Pure delay collapses into the black-hole of artificial self. Even unlimited processing-power is far from enough. It tries to analyse the situation (down through micropause-zoom), but as it chops-up time it starts falling – diagonally – towards continuum."

"At the limit of this technomystical delirium it seems “overwhelmingly probable” that present human reality is already installed in the memory or simulated past of a future artificial intelligence – machine-maya.
It is in this context that Moravec arrives at a peculiarly arbitrary ethical maxim: pretend it’s the first time. The question is: Why play this perverse game, when it’s almost certainly the second time, at least, and technological progress is already an artificial memory? "

>>20487378

We believe it's simply what was fully revealed in Christ's incarnation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggp7FQqGNGc

>When Thou, O Lord, wast baptized in the Jordan, worship of the Trinity was made manifest; for The voice of the Father bore witness to Thee, calling Thee His beloved Son. And the Spirit, in the likeness of a dove, confirmed the truth of his word. O Christ our God, Who hast appeared and enlightened the world, glory to Thee.

>>20487267
Based Bakkerposter

>>20486533
Yes. But zoomer meta irony is a mental illness for which the cure is....
Please Anons my soul is gangrenous.

>>20487360
>The Father is one in essence, indivisible, and acts with one simple activity.
>The Father eternally begets the Son, and the Holy Spirit by eternal spiration.
>Since the other two persons are caused by the Father, without being created by the Father

Nomo. Undivided Outside One. For You Life is Drowning.
Nomo. Numerous Under One. You Part Through Depths Swelling.
Nomo. Half Hidden Within One. You Submerge all Forgetting.
Nomo. Twice Exceeding One. You Bear Earth Convulsing.
Nomo. Ultimate Redoubled One. For You Breath is Dying.
Nomo. Whisper of the Dead. Sinking One You Twin.
Nomo. Hunger of the Earth. Bearing Twice Your Twin.
Nomo. Feeder of the Shadows. Double One Entwining.
Nomo. Shifter of the Deep. Still One In Your Twinning.
Nomo. Wholly Without One. Swallowing All You Twin.

>>20487360
>caused by the Father, without being created by the Father
If I cause something to happen, am I not its creator? This has very bad implications for the rest of christer theology. If God is just a cause and not a creator...

>>20486469
Most kino edition cover

>>20484057
Countersignaling the current cultural establishment.

>>20487567
>>>/x/

>>20487580
>a study in the play element in culture
>imagining myself indoors while everyone is playing outside and my friends ask "I wonder what Anon is doing right now"
>no one will play with me
>i have to study a book to figure out why nobody will play with me
>hey everybody i studied a book will you play with me
Pain

>>20487360
>Islam's criticism of the concept of Roman Catholic Trinitarian doctrine is valid, but Orthodox Christianity doesn't share Trinitarian doctrine with the Roman Catholics.

What specific aspect of Catholic Trinitarian doctrine is subject to Islam's critique?

>>20487598

The notion that there are no ontological distinctions in God whatsoever, because they accept that any distinction must necessarily imply full division. Islam tends to more consistently hold this position, and notices that Roman Catholicism's assertion of the Trinity as three distinct persons violates this principle.

If you want further reading on this, check out the Triads by St Gregory Palamas, or his "Dialogue with a Barlaamite" - he talks about the implications of there being no ontological distinctions in God, from the perspective of what this means for the direct experience of God in this life, and deification.

>>20487556
>But zoomer meta irony is a mental illness for which the cure is....
Sincerity.

>>20486588
Came out based instead
>>20486588

>>20487615
I think the only close sincere friends are those who jest complicitly together.
I can't be sincere with Christians because they will runaway like little girls when I flex my biology textbook knowledge and call me a fedora for wanting a ProEuropean European ethos. A proEuropean Ethos will be immediately lazy referenced a yes sweet Jesus! No. Sorry. Just Germans singing about Germany wanna sing about notGermans and nonGermany? No? Going back to Church with Pastor Tyroneowitz on Sunday? Agh. Yeah. Guess I'll ask Abdul to change my name to Falafel or something then.

>>20487638
Sincerity does not get you laid with anyone but a prostitute.
Monks and whores have so much in common.

>>20485387
Yes

>>20484103
I wish a nigga would

>>20484635
It captures the spirit of the Christ cuck. Empress Theodora castrated her political opponents and sent them off with bloody dilating pussyholes out on panicked horses through the town square.

>>20484722
'Capped and saved

>>20484786
>>20484861
I really dig this elevator music in my commute gee I hope no spotify speaker blasting schwarzes ruin the mood. Aaaaaaand there's ads at the gas pump now.

>>20484973
Shitposting and terrorism are the only outlets Zoom Zoom respects because the medium is the message.

>>20484984
>some terminally online nihilist
Yeah that's probably majority of the web now, G

>>20485235
Abrahamic religions do not deserve to have their claims considered.

>>20485383
Based California Arab

This thread in a nutshell:

>>20485364
Plenty of other religions are anti-materialistic, what makes this particular brand of sandkike Greek fairy tales special? Other than the fact that you are from the west and it's the norm here.

>>20486854
>Alcoholics and drug addicts for the most part are harmless to society people. They only hurt themselves. They only kill themselves.
It depends on the drug and the person. There’s a lot of overlap with it and having zero moral compass, so a lot of them are like rabid dogs that are a danger and need to be put down.

>>20485364
science is better at seeing objective reality than Christianity though. white people are driven by Faustian striving for infinitely more, that's why they're always on the move from paganism to Christianity to science

>>20487310
>have you ever read any commentaries or do you take the literal meaning in an attempt to score upvotes?
a) there are no upvotes on here.
b) "literalist"?! seriously? The other guy is taking a literalist approach to the Nth degree but i don't see you getting on his case lol.
>only this specific denomination has the Holy Spirit, the bread and water literally turn into flesh and blood of Jesus in your stomach, etc.
I only brought up two simple things, women talking in church and not covering their hair (oh and witches on social media being allowed to live) to prove that the guy is picking and choosing which texts to take literally and which not to, and then he goes accusing others of not taking a literal approach to the Bible.
>these are the WORDS OF GOD, OF JESUS. LITERALLY.
>oh, but these words over here aren't literal because reasons.
LOL

>>20487312
>You don't have the Holy Spirit!
>nah i'm not judging you, you just don't have the Holy Spirit and aren't legitimate, that's all. My priest told me so.
newsflash, you're judging people when you make the claim they aren't legitimate :)

>women don't talk in my church
bullshit :) Lying is a sin you know, you must not have the Holy Spirit if you're so easily tempted to lie just to prove a point.

>no, i haven't killed any witches, even though self-proclaimed witches are all over the place.
oh okay, so you don't have the Holy Spirit in you and you ignore texts in the Bible that are too difficult for you. Got it, thanks for being honest at least here.

>>20486561
>we should slaughter every
If I could swat every mosquito I would. Once I had fleas and bed bugs. My crops were too being devoured by every rotten fungus and locust hellspawn. What was it in this swamp that attracted and sustained these innumerable plagues? Many poorly merited conditions compounded so that I could never rehabilitate a lemon tree that was already chronically injured by too many rough seasons. I was poor. My bones were broken. My friends and family distraught in total denial impotence ala North Korea "everything is fine". But I searched for equanimity and I stopped scratching every itch. I was swarmed but spotless. I oiled myself in essences and brought in good terpenoids. I know it sounds like hippie bullshit but my hygiene kusula healed me and my garden. My orderliness and diligence in herd command to quarters pest control was mightier than all my fly swatting seeking. The environment was turned as I was tuned like a true wheel spoke by spoke. Relentless patience and serene magnanimity was the only power that won over my scratching household from bloodsucking sleepless despair.

>>20484057
I hate to use meme speak but the best explanation for the uptick in religious larping is that "the week men are creating hard times."

>>20487189
> else Islam's criticism of the concept of the Trinity is valid.
The Qur’an describes a trinity of three gods, one of which is Mary — it suffices to say that whatever sort of Christianity Muhammad was critiquing has nothing to do with Orthodox Christianity or any sort of Christianity at all.

What are some books to explain how this awful thread hit post limit and autosaged within 24 hours of being created?

>>20488284
my diary desu

>>20484057
Someone explain wtf is up with Dragons and if they are lion serpents demiurge things that exist in devil vagina magic or what.

What is Mahakala?

Eastoids pls

>>20488200
checked faggot

Faggots itt being crying about hedonism in this society even though they spend their hours on this terrible website wasting their time typing out shitposts. The uptick of Christianity is cause people wanna shit on certain groups of people while also feeling good about themselves. Have you noticed most Christ larpers always bring up shit like the crusades and god’s judgement while if you actually go to a church service (if you’re not catholic you’ve already lost and are wasting your time on whatever other gay religion you’ve chosen to brainwork yourself with) they talk about forgiveness to the highest degree. Fags on 4chan just wanna feel morally superior without doing much extra work besides being the history fags they always were.

>>20484057
>despite their clear lack of understanding or knowledge.
and
all you need is faith

>>20486540
Only good post itt

>>20488655
What is a “history fag”?

>>20488947
highly superficial paradog grand strategy tranny

>>20488955
Oh yeah they’re very annoying. The internet would be so much better if we banned Parashit games.